@@RikuxBakura I've been wondering why he never had horns. Had they just not decided at that point that "qunari" had horns or is there a lore reason he doesn't have them?
@@princessofstars666 Honestly you can slap on the old "Bioware lazy" sticker. They never really seem to keep track of their own lore. Not sure if it was intended, could have been they just didn't want to deal with altering helmets and hats for him. Regardless, they added hornless Qunari to the lore because of their mistake.
@@RikuxBakura yeah that's valid lol. Idk why they didn't just say they changed their mind bc they made qunari look different in a lot of different ways, like the face paint, skin color, etc
To be so butt-hurt you rocket into space..... That is an amazing quote and I will be using it from here on. And every time I hear David Gaider's name I have to shed a tear for what DA could have been...
I think that the Qunari are most likely elves that consumed massive amounts of dragon blood Iron Bull did say they breed their people like dogs or horses Whatever they are hopefully we get more information about them in Dragon Age 4
I don't like this theory because it destroys the independent and outsider nature of the Qunari. The entire world doesn't have to revolve around Thedas.
The problem with that theory is that the dragons themselves were a creation of Ghilan'nain (Codex entry: The Ascension of Ghilan'nain), and became a "form reserved for the gods" (Codex entry: Ancient Elven Writing). That is, in the time of Arlathan, only the Evanuri, and maybe their agents, would have been dragons. There would have been no wild dragons to hunt (which creates the issue of... where do wild dragons come from then - maybe a topic for another video here). Now, it could have been elves after the Fall of Arlathan, or after the creation of the Veil, but... apparently the ancient human population of Par Vollen (which is often said to be the origin of Thedas' humans) already had depictions of horned people ruling over them. If those are the Kossith, the Kossith pre-date the Tevinter Imperium, pre-date even the appearance of humans on Thedas (because the humans were on Par Vollen before they were on Thedas). By potentially a lot of time. So there would only have been a small window of time, between the closing of the Veil and *before* the appearance of the first humans on Thedas, were it could have been elves. Now, obviously dragons played a role in the creation of the Qunari, Iron Bull himself speculates so, and maybe also already the Kossith... and we know dragon blood has mutagenic qualities... and OldGod!Kieran says the quanari's blood is not their own... but I would rather guess the Quanari/Kossith come from humans, rather than elves. Fits better to the time table and the Par Vollen link.
@@NovaHessia Maybe wild dragons are descended from the agents of the Evanuri who failed to master the form and succumbed to the primal nature of dragons. That could explain why wild dragons are so intelligent to the point of even allowing cults to serve them. Also it could be that the Kossith were Elven rebels/renegades that sought to usurp this power of the Evanuri by ingesting the blood of that form. Perhaps their fear of the hornless, mages and demons are due to them being reminded of the Evanuri.
I know Im asking the wrong place but does someone know a tool to get back into an instagram account..? I somehow forgot the account password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Sebastian Jamison i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
I just wished the male Qunari inquisitor had the body type of the arishok of dragon age 2, he was so imposing, badass and... hot (cough) The body our inquisitor has in inquisition is... too bulky for my taste. Also I wanted to have long hair combined with some badass horns oh well let's hope dragon age 4 fixes this
right?? the qunari in da2 are badass, their facial structures, hands, horns AND scleras. I understand the Qunari Inquisitor had to look different for character creator purposes but man... that body and hands though...
I just wish that the Antaam-Saar and Shokra-Taar armor in DAI didn't override Iron Bull's body mesh with a bland "standard" body mesh. His bara tiddies would look so good in the Shokra-Taar ;_;
@@erraticonteuse funny thing about those two armor sets is, that they modeled the belly button too low... or well, the entire six pack? the abdominal muscles start right underneath the pectorial ones. you get 3 sets of abdominal muscles, the belly button and then the last set of abdominal muscles.. the first set of abs is still on the ribcage but i think they started with the first set just in the arch of the ribcage?? either way its all wrong LOL
Now I get to be sad and pedantic and correct you slightly about what animism means. Animism is belief in spirits in/of nature. There may be animal spirits that are revered, but it's not the animals themselves that are worshipped, nor is it typically only animal spirits. In DA, the Avvar are also animist.
The confusion is because both animal and animism come from anima, the Latin word for soul. It's also where we get the words animate and inanimate from.
Yeah my understanding of Kossith was that they are/were the culture that The Qun as a religion/philosophy developed out of (and due to the nature of the Qun are heavily villainized/bestialized, rightfully or wrongfully). So calling that word the species is a bit like telling a Fereldin human that Alamarri is their species. Except that since the Qunari immigrated to Par vollen the Kossith culture might still exist back on their original continent as opposed to being replaced like the alamarri. But the Kossith are similiar enough to Qunari physically to create to same kind of darkspawn (ogres) so that line from Bull about them not looking like them might be coming from a propaganda place rather than a factual place. Or he might be speaking figuratively, not literally.
I use Vashoth to refer to the race since it refers to a Qunari (race) born outside of the Qun. It could be wrong though since Qunlat loves its metaphors and Vashoth meaning grey one could really mean “one without purpose” or something like that.
that could be explained away as "gameplay reasons". It's easier to re-use the same model than have several different versions XD It's only the player models and characters the player will interact with frequently (beyond killing them) that it is important to have variety
There's hornless Qunari like our Sten. You would think there'd be hornless Ogres too right? It's like the comment above states it probably just gameplay reasons.
I just wish there had been a better reason than "*shrug*" for why the qunari had to leave. I mean...look at all the effort put into Dorian's descriptions of Tevinter
First! I was always interested in the kossith, I hope we find out more about them in the future. I really love your videos you're really great in explaining the lore!
I dunno why people get so butthurt about using the term Qunari, it is literally the preferred term of reference for the people of the Qun. Every bit of what we know about the Kossith is rooted in past knowledge...which implies that the Kossith is in the past, a thing so muddled in conflicting stories that not even the most pureblood of the Qun know the truth of them for certain, all that they knew was that something bad happened, and they had to leave their homeland and old ways behind. It's my own personal theory that the people before the Qun most likely represented the antithesis of what the people who follow the Qun currently believe. Values of freedom and choices that probably unfortunately lead to quite a few poor choices in making that ultimately made their situation bad enough that they needed to flee and adopted a deep rooted belief that correlation is causation, rather than the opposite, but that's ultimately just me spitballin. Tldr use Qunari or Kossith, we still don't know the actual term of the race as it is today, it really doesn't matter until this distinction is made important enough in lore (which I have half faith and half doubt for because somehow I find the lore of these people to be both bountiful and lacking and that's such a weird feeling....regardless Qunari get done dirty)
This reminds me how if you have Morrigan's son be connected to an old god's soul and be a qunari inquistor he says something along the lines of, "I'm so sorry for what happened to your people." Add the fact that Iron Bull thinks the Kossith look different from modern Qunari and that he even theorizes they were altered with dragon lineage leads me to a weird theory. That the Kossith are a subspecies of Qunari who were either forcibly altered or wiped out by a group who worshiped dragons and willingly altered themselves into what we see today. Those that survived then changed their ways by embracing the Qun and then left their homeland out of shame for what they had done. What do you think about this?
I kinda took iron bull a bit at face value since he is probably the most talkative about the qun and that kossith was before qunari and by all accounts not qunari.
This is exactly how I view it. I think the previous uses of Kossith could either be assumed to have been written by people outside of the Qun who don't know what they're talking about, or that it has all been retconned. Iron Bull knows better than humans writing codexes, after all.
@@casseroledragon3277 Very much this. Combine the fact that Kossith when used by Qunari folk is only ever in past tense, with the fact that even Iron Bull....who's entire business is about knowing things, can't be certain about their origins or what the term even specifically refers to...only that they once were a thing
Ok so I gotta theory, In DAI corypheus says to a qunari inquisitor that they're race was a "mistake" and later in the same game when you meet the old god version of Kieran, there are 2 dailogue options in which he mentions something about your race, the first being when the inquisitor says to Kieran "I'm told being a Qunari is the first thing people notice about me" and Kieran replies, "I noticed your blood, it doesn't belong to your people" and the 2nd being when the inquisitor says "being Qunari isn't so bad right" and Kieran replies "no, I'm just sad about what happened to your people" and earlier, again in DAI, bull mentions something about the kossith as they're predecessor race, and that for some reason, the race that would come to be known as Qunari had to leave their original lands because of the Kossith, and that "whatever they are (referring to the kossith) they probably don't look like us" he also states later in the game that some among their race theorize that they may have the blood of dragons within them, we also know of a form of dragon called "great dragons" which are dragons who's blood contains some form of "godly power" implying that the great dragons themselves are godlike, what if the Kossith is a race of beings who drank from the blood of a great dragon, and furthermore, that they are distinctly different from the Qunari race as we know them, being more dragon like and larger than regular Qunari, and having close ties with the dragons, (this is a stretch but possibly the higher ups of Kossith society could turn into dragons? I don't have any evidence for this but it could explain what the old gods are?) The Kossith then took elves as slaves, but they were too weak compared to the Kossith, so they wouldn't have been effective slaves, so the Kossith force fed the Elves blood and bred with them, over time turning them into what we know as Qunari, once at this stage, the Qunari were strong enough to revolt against the Kossith, but many of them still died, the Qunari then left so they wouldn't die or be forced into slavery, eventually landing on Par Vollen, this theory would also explain why they were referred to as "Wild and Chaotic" before tge Qun was invented, as being a race of slaves gives you no culture or prideful racial Identity.
Are the games just us going into the fade and exploring different peoples' ideas of the events which is why there are so many different versions? Because different people have recorded events differently.
I have only used Kossith to distinguish the big horned guys and everyone else under the Qun. The thing is, with so many different people under the Qun, the term Qunari loses its descriptive value. Saying that you are looking for a Qunari is now basically saying that you are looking for a Canadian. I think that most people who used the term did it for the sake of ease when discussing the Qun, and it's annoying that we don't have a proper term. Tallis and Bull are both Qunari, but I doubt people would call them identical for that. Also, it feels like Kirby has it backwards, unless she is deliberately withholding info on the topic, to compare it to calling specifically Bostonians "homo sapiens". She is using a broad term for a specific group, but people using Kossith try to use a specific term to broad group. I recognize that it is wrong, and people are right, at the moment, for just saying Qunari, but it is a bit annoying to have nothing here.
I'm a new follower and adore everything about this page. I hope I'm not being repetitive, and I still trying to write it all out. But is it possible that Ghilanain was the first Kossith/kossith ish? I think I may post the full write up on the reddit but does that seem plausible? Without typing my whole thought process, what sparked my questions is this synopsis: The only horned beings we really know about are the halla, dragons, and qunari. We know the kossith had horns because the ogres do. We know that the eleven gods created lots of forms of life, especially Ghilanain. We know that ancient elves had a sort of different physique like broader shoulders. We know that something is off about qunari blood and origin. We even know that, though the first halla, she is only ever sculpted with a humanoid body. But what molds the tinfoil into a hat for me is that we really only see Ghilanains head in tact on one statue. In her statues depiction she wears a hood, and the statue was in the frost back basin built by the last inquisitor and she looks modeled after a human so it could be "adrasteanization". Even still it's hard to definitively tell whether or not she has horns in that statue
And here I suspected that actually "Vashoth" was a term for the race and Kossith like Qunari a name for a culture and calling all those "Oxmen" Qunari or Kossith would be like calling all Humans "Tevinter" or "Orlesian".
Honestly, I only heard the term from Bull and the Arishok from DA2 saying they are the first original Qunari. And maybe Sten that one time at camp in DA:O.
A point on kossith appearance (based solely on my observations): I think the Iron Bull is wrong that they don't look much like the Qunari. I'm basing this on the fact that ogres look very similar to Qunari and, at most if not all of them come from the kossith that were captured in the Korcarri Wilds during the First Blight who predated the Qun by at least a few centuries.
@@bib4eto656 I like to make sense of things from an in-universe perspective wherever I can. And this explanation works for now. But yeah, there's probably a meta reason for this.
@@YoshtTheAwesome You do realize we NEVER saw those Orges right? For all we know they could of looked different. First Blight was more than a 1,000 years before Origins...Wardens either killed them or they died off. The Orges we see in Origins and forward are from Qunari and Tal-Vashoth.
My take on Kossith based on this video: they are a preexisting and separate Cornhominid race that predate the race of Cornhominids that founded the Qûn. And since it is possible that the Kossith are the same species as the Cornhominids among the Qûn then I will just call their species the Cornhom until DOA names them true.
Seeing as most real life cultures named themselves with their word for "person", I don't think there was a distinction between the race and the culture amongst the Kossith themselves.
For me I think there's an issue surrounding some of the other lore that just creates a weird gap in reasoning and I can see how people would jump on "Well, duh, Kossith!" in defiance of what the lore material. So there's a Big Deal in DA about how anyone who follows the Qun is Qunari no matter race. Which: fine! Considering the Qun is basically Fantasy Communism it sort of makes sense that they wouldn't see race except *they totally do* because isn't there a thing about how they don't allow inter-racial breeding and keep very detailed records of pedigree? So the Tamassrans _must_ have some nomenclature for "Qunari" vs. "Elf" vs. "Human" when doing geneology apart from everyday "Elf who is Tallis" description of members of the Qun. And I'm sure that it is exactly that, but the problem is that it sort of automatically creates a semantic second-class status for anyone following the Qun who isn't of the race Qunari by making it both the race and the religion, which is sort of at odds with the idea that everyone is more or less equal under the Qun so long as they do what they're told--that only the horned dudes are "true" Qunari and everyone else is sort of tagging along. (Also what about Qunari who were elf or human who decide to throw away the Qun and become Tal Vashoth? If you're describing to your Tallis which one you want to eliminate, and it's the one with the horns, do you say the Qunari Tal Vashoth?) It's not really a plot hole because maybe the Qunari really have figured that stuff out and it presents no problems but just understanding how semantics and identity work in our world it feels like a misalignment.
so odd vidoe to comment this on but I wonder if there are any other planets that are talked about,speaking of with do we know anything about the worlds moons?
Dear Lady, one of the most aggravating topics in modern culture and language is species identity vs. culture identity. White and Black were teens born from European imperialism and colonization of Africa. The human species is millions of years older than the empires of Europe. The cephalocorn humanoid in DA have a similar issue: are they horned elves or humans? Or, are they bipedal bovines? Dragon Blooded humans with prodigious physicality and horns? All I get from this is that Qunari, Talvashot, & Kossith are cultural not species identities.
It would be less confusing if Qunari Semantics weren't such a mystery. Dwarves are called Dwarves, Elves are Called Elves, and sure there are small subtitles like "Brand" or "Dalish" that make that label more specific, but the Qunari don't have anything other than "Vashoth" or people who are not born within the Qun, and it feels weird to only use that term. I hope to god that they have more qunari/kossith content, maybe meeting the old culture?
I do wish they would provide a term for *fans* to talk about the race as a whole, though. It's all well and good for Thedosians to call them all "Qunari" but since DAI went out of its way to give us the Vashoth, members of the race who are completely outside the Qun - it just feels awkward to call them by that term (and in-setting I can only imagine many of them would be offended or offput by it, just as Bioware itself lampshaded in the Vashoth codex entry). Simply "Qunari" is inaccurate, "kossith" has been shot down by the writers repeatedly, and "Qunari, Tal-Vashoth, and Vashoth" is horribly clunky. What's a fan to do? *shrug*
Ox-men or Dragon-Men. It might be a slur but it's the closest you will get to describe the Race instead of their cultures. An honestly Thedas IS pretty damned racist so it would make sense for Thedosians to use that term above all else!
I've always thought the ogres looked like the darkspawn version of qunari, the hurlocks as human and the genlocks as dwarven. I also see the shrieks as the darkspawn elves. Anyway I agree with your term for the kossith. I think it is an archaic term for the guys currently known as qunari or tal vashoth. It's clear after talking with Sten and iron bull that this is a group of people who identify more by their beliefs than race anyways
I dont like using Kossith because if I remember correctly the "Kossith" still exist back in the Qunari homeland (not Par Vollen) as a different religious group. Just like in thedas not all Qunari are horned ox-men.
Based on what Iron Bull says (and I think we should take him at his word), we shouldn't call the modern Qunari the Kossith. It would be like calling humans homo Erectus just because homo Sapiens evolved from them. Qunari evolved from the Kossith, but are not them anymore. I don't think they would have had that line from Iron Bull in the game if they wanted people to think the Kossith were anything like the Qunari are now.
Here's my fan theory... Iron Bull... One whose hell entails having to wear a new pullover shirt every hour. Sten... One without horns who attempts to stifle a laugh from watching Iron Bull have to put on a new pullover shirt every hour. Sten with horns... "Give me the man-boob harness!!!" -A collection of campfire definitions of the Bull's Chargers
The whole calling people from Boston Homo Sapiens thing really confuses me... does that mean there are lots of other kossith-decended cultures around the world that we just don't come into contact with? Are there entire continents full of horned people in the north?
... aaaand I take it back. I looked up the word on leo and while I don't remember coming across the english word, I do of course know it in my native language. Still, comparing how many hours I spent on Dragon Age and how many more on other media in english, that's kinda weird.
If the Qun says the race is Qunari, then the race is Qunari. The Qunari race is a multi-species race made up of followers of the Qun. The Qun is a theocracy that operates like a hive. The idea of the Kossith is pretty much the equivalent of an urban myth in Thedas made popular to players by TH-cam.
nah, the devs are just dancing around some lore that hasn't been explained yet. following that logic we should just call humans andrastians. there's a lexical gap, a missing name for the race, so that's why the fanbase uses Kossith and will continue to be correct until replaced with the real name.
@@PatheticApathetic who said I have bad spelling? I'm talking about when I see people correct other people's bad spelling. I bet you think your'e so much better than everyone else. Oh, he misspelled something I need to show my intelligence and fix it!!! dduuhhhh
PERFECT AS ALWAYS THNX much love light magic wisdom hope health strength true happiness and friendships epic adventures bliss miracles luck sexiness kindness to u and yours have the best ever perfect epic badass day and may all of your dreams hopes goals endeavors come true and so much more
I shall call them "Horn"ies and there's nothing y'all can do to stop me :P
lmao
But...Sten was never a horny...
@@RikuxBakura I've been wondering why he never had horns. Had they just not decided at that point that "qunari" had horns or is there a lore reason he doesn't have them?
@@princessofstars666 Honestly you can slap on the old "Bioware lazy" sticker. They never really seem to keep track of their own lore. Not sure if it was intended, could have been they just didn't want to deal with altering helmets and hats for him. Regardless, they added hornless Qunari to the lore because of their mistake.
@@RikuxBakura yeah that's valid lol. Idk why they didn't just say they changed their mind bc they made qunari look different in a lot of different ways, like the face paint, skin color, etc
I hadn’t realised how little the word was actually brought up.
To be so butt-hurt you rocket into space.....
That is an amazing quote and I will be using it from here on.
And every time I hear David Gaider's name I have to shed a tear for what DA could have been...
I think that the Qunari are most likely elves that consumed massive amounts of dragon blood Iron Bull did say they breed their people like dogs or horses
Whatever they are hopefully we get more information about them in Dragon Age 4
Hopefully
That would explain how bull can be a reaver without ever consuming dragon blood
I don't like this theory because it destroys the independent and outsider nature of the Qunari. The entire world doesn't have to revolve around Thedas.
The problem with that theory is that the dragons themselves were a creation of Ghilan'nain (Codex entry: The Ascension of Ghilan'nain), and became a "form reserved for the gods" (Codex entry: Ancient Elven Writing). That is, in the time of Arlathan, only the Evanuri, and maybe their agents, would have been dragons. There would have been no wild dragons to hunt (which creates the issue of... where do wild dragons come from then - maybe a topic for another video here).
Now, it could have been elves after the Fall of Arlathan, or after the creation of the Veil, but... apparently the ancient human population of Par Vollen (which is often said to be the origin of Thedas' humans) already had depictions of horned people ruling over them. If those are the Kossith, the Kossith pre-date the Tevinter Imperium, pre-date even the appearance of humans on Thedas (because the humans were on Par Vollen before they were on Thedas). By potentially a lot of time. So there would only have been a small window of time, between the closing of the Veil and *before* the appearance of the first humans on Thedas, were it could have been elves.
Now, obviously dragons played a role in the creation of the Qunari, Iron Bull himself speculates so, and maybe also already the Kossith... and we know dragon blood has mutagenic qualities... and OldGod!Kieran says the quanari's blood is not their own... but I would rather guess the Quanari/Kossith come from humans, rather than elves. Fits better to the time table and the Par Vollen link.
@@NovaHessia Maybe wild dragons are descended from the agents of the Evanuri who failed to master the form and succumbed to the primal nature of dragons. That could explain why wild dragons are so intelligent to the point of even allowing cults to serve them. Also it could be that the Kossith were Elven rebels/renegades that sought to usurp this power of the Evanuri by ingesting the blood of that form. Perhaps their fear of the hornless, mages and demons are due to them being reminded of the Evanuri.
By the way animism is the belief that the natural world are beings not necessarily the worship of animals
Oh wow I was completely unaware of that, thanks for sharing!
i used to use Kosith until a developer on the Bioware Forums corrected me.
If ANYONE can correct you on DA lore it's a game dev
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@Nicholas Brentley instablaster =)
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I just wished the male Qunari inquisitor had the body type of the arishok of dragon age 2, he was so imposing, badass and... hot (cough)
The body our inquisitor has in inquisition is... too bulky for my taste. Also I wanted to have long hair combined with some badass horns oh well let's hope dragon age 4 fixes this
right?? the qunari in da2 are badass, their facial structures, hands, horns AND scleras. I understand the Qunari Inquisitor had to look different for character creator purposes but man... that body and hands though...
I just wish that the Antaam-Saar and Shokra-Taar armor in DAI didn't override Iron Bull's body mesh with a bland "standard" body mesh. His bara tiddies would look so good in the Shokra-Taar ;_;
@@erraticonteuse funny thing about those two armor sets is, that they modeled the belly button too low... or well, the entire six pack? the abdominal muscles start right underneath the pectorial ones. you get 3 sets of abdominal muscles, the belly button and then the last set of abdominal muscles.. the first set of abs is still on the ribcage but i think they started with the first set just in the arch of the ribcage?? either way its all wrong LOL
I wanted my Qunari in DAI to kinda look like Sten. But sadly I couldn't.
Now I get to be sad and pedantic and correct you slightly about what animism means. Animism is belief in spirits in/of nature. There may be animal spirits that are revered, but it's not the animals themselves that are worshipped, nor is it typically only animal spirits. In DA, the Avvar are also animist.
I like Animist better than Theists way less extreme.
The confusion is because both animal and animism come from anima, the Latin word for soul. It's also where we get the words animate and inanimate from.
Yeah my understanding of Kossith was that they are/were the culture that The Qun as a religion/philosophy developed out of (and due to the nature of the Qun are heavily villainized/bestialized, rightfully or wrongfully). So calling that word the species is a bit like telling a Fereldin human that Alamarri is their species. Except that since the Qunari immigrated to Par vollen the Kossith culture might still exist back on their original continent as opposed to being replaced like the alamarri.
But the Kossith are similiar enough to Qunari physically to create to same kind of darkspawn (ogres) so that line from Bull about them not looking like them might be coming from a propaganda place rather than a factual place. Or he might be speaking figuratively, not literally.
I use Vashoth to refer to the race since it refers to a Qunari (race) born outside of the Qun. It could be wrong though since Qunlat loves its metaphors and Vashoth meaning grey one could really mean “one without purpose” or something like that.
You videos are my happy place thank you so much for all your hard work 🙏
Your videos are my new comfort blanket
But to my knowledge all ogres have horns, most Qunari have horns, Qunari are/descended from kossith so some of the kossith must have had horns.
that could be explained away as "gameplay reasons". It's easier to re-use the same model than have several different versions XD It's only the player models and characters the player will interact with frequently (beyond killing them) that it is important to have variety
There's hornless Qunari like our Sten. You would think there'd be hornless Ogres too right? It's like the comment above states it probably just gameplay reasons.
I just wish there had been a better reason than "*shrug*" for why the qunari had to leave. I mean...look at all the effort put into Dorian's descriptions of Tevinter
THANK YOU for making this!
First!
I was always interested in the kossith, I hope we find out more about them in the future.
I really love your videos you're really great in explaining the lore!
LIAR!
@@thomaswillard6267 Silence Brand! Jk lol
I dunno why people get so butthurt about using the term Qunari, it is literally the preferred term of reference for the people of the Qun.
Every bit of what we know about the Kossith is rooted in past knowledge...which implies that the Kossith is in the past, a thing so muddled in conflicting stories that not even the most pureblood of the Qun know the truth of them for certain, all that they knew was that something bad happened, and they had to leave their homeland and old ways behind.
It's my own personal theory that the people before the Qun most likely represented the antithesis of what the people who follow the Qun currently believe. Values of freedom and choices that probably unfortunately lead to quite a few poor choices in making that ultimately made their situation bad enough that they needed to flee and adopted a deep rooted belief that correlation is causation, rather than the opposite, but that's ultimately just me spitballin.
Tldr use Qunari or Kossith, we still don't know the actual term of the race as it is today, it really doesn't matter until this distinction is made important enough in lore (which I have half faith and half doubt for because somehow I find the lore of these people to be both bountiful and lacking and that's such a weird feeling....regardless Qunari get done dirty)
It sounds to me like the Qunari are like the pilgrims who left their homeland probably due to religious prosecution
Thank you for reminding me what they were called. Been wracking my brain for ages, trying to remember.
This reminds me how if you have Morrigan's son be connected to an old god's soul and be a qunari inquistor he says something along the lines of, "I'm so sorry for what happened to your people." Add the fact that Iron Bull thinks the Kossith look different from modern Qunari and that he even theorizes they were altered with dragon lineage leads me to a weird theory. That the Kossith are a subspecies of Qunari who were either forcibly altered or wiped out by a group who worshiped dragons and willingly altered themselves into what we see today. Those that survived then changed their ways by embracing the Qun and then left their homeland out of shame for what they had done. What do you think about this?
I hadn't heard the term myself, outside of the interaction with Iron Bull, so this was actually really informative for me, haha.
Been too damn long since I last watched your videos. Hope your doing well and have a Merry Christmas!
I prefer the kosjedi. I’ll show myself out for that really bad joke.
it took me a bit to get that one XD
I'm pretty sure the first place it's referenced is in Dragon Age Origins in the codex about Ogres
Ahhhh sigh... *Re-installing Inquisition (again)*
DON'T DO IT MAN
I like inquisition. I mean it can be a bit grindy but i like it.
Buddy. Just don't uninstall it lol
Well thanks for all your hard work and try not beating yourself up over this stuff okay
P.s: as of the writing of this comment merry Christmas
I kinda took iron bull a bit at face value since he is probably the most talkative about the qun and that kossith was before qunari and by all accounts not qunari.
This is exactly how I view it. I think the previous uses of Kossith could either be assumed to have been written by people outside of the Qun who don't know what they're talking about, or that it has all been retconned. Iron Bull knows better than humans writing codexes, after all.
@@casseroledragon3277 Very much this.
Combine the fact that Kossith when used by Qunari folk is only ever in past tense, with the fact that even Iron Bull....who's entire business is about knowing things, can't be certain about their origins or what the term even specifically refers to...only that they once were a thing
I didn't expect you to post another vid during the holidays! Fun little surprise lol
I half expected a Taylor Swift "Look what you made me do!" mic drop at the end, there.
If the Kossith made it that far south then it does help explain Ogres in the first blight.
And then you have me... "What in the wotld is Kossith" :P I'm just here to listen to you talk.. learning something is just a bonus xD
Only my opinion is right! My source is from my friend's, stepsister's, half-cousin's, father in law who is a writer at BioWare!
Ok so I gotta theory,
In DAI corypheus says to a qunari inquisitor that they're race was a "mistake" and later in the same game when you meet the old god version of Kieran, there are 2 dailogue options in which he mentions something about your race, the first being when the inquisitor says to Kieran "I'm told being a Qunari is the first thing people notice about me" and Kieran replies, "I noticed your blood, it doesn't belong to your people" and the 2nd being when the inquisitor says "being Qunari isn't so bad right" and Kieran replies "no, I'm just sad about what happened to your people" and earlier, again in DAI, bull mentions something about the kossith as they're predecessor race, and that for some reason, the race that would come to be known as Qunari had to leave their original lands because of the Kossith, and that "whatever they are (referring to the kossith) they probably don't look like us" he also states later in the game that some among their race theorize that they may have the blood of dragons within them, we also know of a form of dragon called "great dragons" which are dragons who's blood contains some form of "godly power" implying that the great dragons themselves are godlike, what if the Kossith is a race of beings who drank from the blood of a great dragon, and furthermore, that they are distinctly different from the Qunari race as we know them, being more dragon like and larger than regular Qunari, and having close ties with the dragons, (this is a stretch but possibly the higher ups of Kossith society could turn into dragons? I don't have any evidence for this but it could explain what the old gods are?) The Kossith then took elves as slaves, but they were too weak compared to the Kossith, so they wouldn't have been effective slaves, so the Kossith force fed the Elves blood and bred with them, over time turning them into what we know as Qunari, once at this stage, the Qunari were strong enough to revolt against the Kossith, but many of them still died, the Qunari then left so they wouldn't die or be forced into slavery, eventually landing on Par Vollen, this theory would also explain why they were referred to as "Wild and Chaotic" before tge Qun was invented, as being a race of slaves gives you no culture or prideful racial Identity.
Are the games just us going into the fade and exploring different peoples' ideas of the events which is why there are so many different versions? Because different people have recorded events differently.
I never knew the word until I saw the title of this video....
Team butthurt launches off agaaaaain~!
Thanks for the video. :D above comment is not directed at anyone , it just came to mind from your intro.
I do believe the Kossith/Qunri whatever everyone wishes to call them have strains of Elf, Human and Dragon in them
Mom, you destroyed them.
Caitie: Call them oxmen for all I care
Me: Hold up, that's definitely a racial slur, in-universe 😂
I have only used Kossith to distinguish the big horned guys and everyone else under the Qun. The thing is, with so many different people under the Qun, the term Qunari loses its descriptive value. Saying that you are looking for a Qunari is now basically saying that you are looking for a Canadian. I think that most people who used the term did it for the sake of ease when discussing the Qun, and it's annoying that we don't have a proper term. Tallis and Bull are both Qunari, but I doubt people would call them identical for that. Also, it feels like Kirby has it backwards, unless she is deliberately withholding info on the topic, to compare it to calling specifically Bostonians "homo sapiens". She is using a broad term for a specific group, but people using Kossith try to use a specific term to broad group. I recognize that it is wrong, and people are right, at the moment, for just saying Qunari, but it is a bit annoying to have nothing here.
I'm a new follower and adore everything about this page. I hope I'm not being repetitive, and I still trying to write it all out. But is it possible that Ghilanain was the first Kossith/kossith ish? I think I may post the full write up on the reddit but does that seem plausible? Without typing my whole thought process, what sparked my questions is this synopsis:
The only horned beings we really know about are the halla, dragons, and qunari. We know the kossith had horns because the ogres do. We know that the eleven gods created lots of forms of life, especially Ghilanain. We know that ancient elves had a sort of different physique like broader shoulders. We know that something is off about qunari blood and origin. We even know that, though the first halla, she is only ever sculpted with a humanoid body. But what molds the tinfoil into a hat for me is that we really only see Ghilanains head in tact on one statue. In her statues depiction she wears a hood, and the statue was in the frost back basin built by the last inquisitor and she looks modeled after a human so it could be "adrasteanization". Even still it's hard to definitively tell whether or not she has horns in that statue
And here I suspected that actually "Vashoth" was a term for the race and Kossith like Qunari a name for a culture and calling all those "Oxmen" Qunari or Kossith would be like calling all Humans "Tevinter" or "Orlesian".
that would be an interesting theory
Vashoth means Grey in Qunlat...They have more than grey skintones there's green, black, brown etc.
Honestly, I only heard the term from Bull and the Arishok from DA2 saying they are the first original Qunari. And maybe Sten that one time at camp in DA:O.
1:10 I look away and looked back and was scared for a sec
I remember only Bull saying it once in a conversation when I was romancing him with my male dwarf
A point on kossith appearance (based solely on my observations):
I think the Iron Bull is wrong that they don't look much like the Qunari. I'm basing this on the fact that ogres look very similar to Qunari and, at most if not all of them come from the kossith that were captured in the Korcarri Wilds during the First Blight who predated the Qun by at least a few centuries.
It could very easily be an oversight on the writers' part, you know. Elder Scrolls-stylw.
@@bib4eto656 I like to make sense of things from an in-universe perspective wherever I can. And this explanation works for now. But yeah, there's probably a meta reason for this.
@@YoshtTheAwesome You do realize we NEVER saw those Orges right? For all we know they could of looked different. First Blight was more than a 1,000 years before Origins...Wardens either killed them or they died off. The Orges we see in Origins and forward are from Qunari and Tal-Vashoth.
Pissed Caitie is the best Caitie
Don't even remember where I first heard the term Kossith, around DA2 time I think
My take on Kossith based on this video: they are a preexisting and separate Cornhominid race that predate the race of Cornhominids that founded the Qûn. And since it is possible that the Kossith are the same species as the Cornhominids among the Qûn then I will just call their species the Cornhom until DOA names them true.
Seeing as most real life cultures named themselves with their word for "person", I don't think there was a distinction between the race and the culture amongst the Kossith themselves.
For me I think there's an issue surrounding some of the other lore that just creates a weird gap in reasoning and I can see how people would jump on "Well, duh, Kossith!" in defiance of what the lore material. So there's a Big Deal in DA about how anyone who follows the Qun is Qunari no matter race. Which: fine! Considering the Qun is basically Fantasy Communism it sort of makes sense that they wouldn't see race except *they totally do* because isn't there a thing about how they don't allow inter-racial breeding and keep very detailed records of pedigree? So the Tamassrans _must_ have some nomenclature for "Qunari" vs. "Elf" vs. "Human" when doing geneology apart from everyday "Elf who is Tallis" description of members of the Qun. And I'm sure that it is exactly that, but the problem is that it sort of automatically creates a semantic second-class status for anyone following the Qun who isn't of the race Qunari by making it both the race and the religion, which is sort of at odds with the idea that everyone is more or less equal under the Qun so long as they do what they're told--that only the horned dudes are "true" Qunari and everyone else is sort of tagging along. (Also what about Qunari who were elf or human who decide to throw away the Qun and become Tal Vashoth? If you're describing to your Tallis which one you want to eliminate, and it's the one with the horns, do you say the Qunari Tal Vashoth?)
It's not really a plot hole because maybe the Qunari really have figured that stuff out and it presents no problems but just understanding how semantics and identity work in our world it feels like a misalignment.
RIP Bioware social network.
R. I. P. Bioware Social net
Done right this world would make for a bad ass MMO
Me over here writing a fan fiction with a kossith cuz he rejects the qun 🤣🤣🤣🤣
so odd vidoe to comment this on but I wonder if there are any other planets that are talked about,speaking of with do we know anything about the worlds moons?
I love your videos
Dear Lady, one of the most aggravating topics in modern culture and language is species identity vs. culture identity. White and Black were teens born from European imperialism and colonization of Africa. The human species is millions of years older than the empires of Europe. The cephalocorn humanoid in DA have a similar issue: are they horned elves or humans? Or, are they bipedal bovines? Dragon Blooded humans with prodigious physicality and horns? All I get from this is that Qunari, Talvashot, & Kossith are cultural not species identities.
bioware social network i miss it had so much fun trolling and hanging out
It would be less confusing if Qunari Semantics weren't such a mystery. Dwarves are called Dwarves, Elves are Called Elves, and sure there are small subtitles like "Brand" or "Dalish" that make that label more specific, but the Qunari don't have anything other than "Vashoth" or people who are not born within the Qun, and it feels weird to only use that term. I hope to god that they have more qunari/kossith content, maybe meeting the old culture?
people from the greater boston area are the only actually homo sapiens!
Kossith, or some say Kosm
I do wish they would provide a term for *fans* to talk about the race as a whole, though. It's all well and good for Thedosians to call them all "Qunari" but since DAI went out of its way to give us the Vashoth, members of the race who are completely outside the Qun - it just feels awkward to call them by that term (and in-setting I can only imagine many of them would be offended or offput by it, just as Bioware itself lampshaded in the Vashoth codex entry). Simply "Qunari" is inaccurate, "kossith" has been shot down by the writers repeatedly, and "Qunari, Tal-Vashoth, and Vashoth" is horribly clunky. What's a fan to do? *shrug*
Ox-men or Dragon-Men. It might be a slur but it's the closest you will get to describe the Race instead of their cultures. An honestly Thedas IS pretty damned racist so it would make sense for Thedosians to use that term above all else!
I've always thought the ogres looked like the darkspawn version of qunari, the hurlocks as human and the genlocks as dwarven. I also see the shrieks as the darkspawn elves. Anyway I agree with your term for the kossith. I think it is an archaic term for the guys currently known as qunari or tal vashoth. It's clear after talking with Sten and iron bull that this is a group of people who identify more by their beliefs than race anyways
...this has literally been canon since DAO
But is Oxmen sexy?
While the Qunari of the present are followers of a religion, their actual race name is the Kossith
I dont like using Kossith because if I remember correctly the "Kossith" still exist back in the Qunari homeland (not Par Vollen) as a different religious group. Just like in thedas not all Qunari are horned ox-men.
Based on what Iron Bull says (and I think we should take him at his word), we shouldn't call the modern Qunari the Kossith. It would be like calling humans homo Erectus just because homo Sapiens evolved from them. Qunari evolved from the Kossith, but are not them anymore. I don't think they would have had that line from Iron Bull in the game if they wanted people to think the Kossith were anything like the Qunari are now.
So this is what you ranting about on Twitter
what's a Kossith and why is it interfering with my Qunari?
Here's my fan theory... Iron Bull... One whose hell entails having to wear a new pullover shirt every hour. Sten... One without horns who attempts to stifle a laugh from watching Iron Bull have to put on a new pullover shirt every hour. Sten with horns... "Give me the man-boob harness!!!"
-A collection of campfire definitions of the Bull's Chargers
Lol poor Toby 😭😭😭😭
So genlocks are made from dwarven broodmothers.
Hurlocks from Humans.
And Ogres from Kossith or Qunari.
What about elves? Shrieks? I don't think so..
Salah Ad-Din actually, you’re right. Elf=shrieks
Yep its true, elf broodmothers make shrieks
The whole calling people from Boston Homo Sapiens thing really confuses me... does that mean there are lots of other kossith-decended cultures around the world that we just don't come into contact with? Are there entire continents full of horned people in the north?
ha ha ha ha ...in your face in your face
Wow - I knew the word 'Kossith', but I never even heard of the word 'Occidental'. How messed up is that?!
... aaaand I take it back. I looked up the word on leo and while I don't remember coming across the english word, I do of course know it in my native language. Still, comparing how many hours I spent on Dragon Age and how many more on other media in english, that's kinda weird.
YES
If the Qun says the race is Qunari, then the race is Qunari. The Qunari race is a multi-species race made up of followers of the Qun. The Qun is a theocracy that operates like a hive. The idea of the Kossith is pretty much the equivalent of an urban myth in Thedas made popular to players by TH-cam.
Fandom snobs: The *proper* term is "kossith."
Devs: Actually, it's not.
Fandom snobs: What would *you* know, plebs? REEEE!! *Weak writing!!!*
Given Surname Somebody better pin and highlight this comment, right meow!
@@EmmettF.W. - lol Thanks!
nah, the devs are just dancing around some lore that hasn't been explained yet. following that logic we should just call humans andrastians.
there's a lexical gap, a missing name for the race, so that's why the fanbase uses Kossith and will continue to be correct until replaced with the real name.
"Like Tumblr I guess"
It's like those people that feel the need to correct other poster's spelling. It's just annoying. Nobody likes the spelling police.
Dragon800 no, it is’t, because we’re actually right about your bad spelling
@@PatheticApathetic who said I have bad spelling? I'm talking about when I see people correct other people's bad spelling. I bet you think your'e so much better than everyone else. Oh, he misspelled something I need to show my intelligence and fix it!!! dduuhhhh
Kossith sounds better then qunari
Woo NO VIEWS
Cothish sounds better than kossith
PERFECT AS ALWAYS THNX
much love light magic wisdom hope health strength true happiness and friendships epic adventures bliss miracles luck sexiness kindness to u and yours have the best ever perfect epic badass day and may all of your dreams hopes goals endeavors come true and so much more
I definitely remember Sten saying it in Origins at some point.