The roots of the Qunari, philosophy and beliefs in perfection of the self, and the refusal of suffering is both beautiful and crucial to success. However the execution of these beliefs is very totalitarian, unfortunately a lot like societies of our own world.
@@loreuniversity895 one thing the qun does best is specalize as everyone has a role and duty. There is a reason they are the only race besides 1 dwarf to develop gun powder and iron vessels.
Love imagining how the horn retcon went down. Someone probably sketched out an absolutely badass horned Qunari and theyre like "damnit Geoff, this is genius! Where were you last week?!"
It is modern. By definition. Even if it it has similarities to other things, the similarities to Marxism and Postmodern Philosophies is accurate in many ways.
@@chickenmonger123 Yes exactly! I like the original comment, but I agree with you! To say we can not learn from our own history is theost absurd thing possible. It's the WHOLE point! To refuse to judge the people of the past means to also fail to learn from them. The greatest judgment possible is admiration and inspiration. The good must come with the bad, these are our ancestors and the conflicts and morality of today happen on almost the exact same geographic coordinates that it happened in the past too. Same battles and same sins.
@@chickenmonger123 It is not Marxist. No Qunari workers have freedom to choose or ownership over the means of production. Take Solas' story of a Qunari baker rebelling by adding pinches of sugar where she is able. If she owned the means of her production, she would not need to rebel in small ways in her own labour. There are definitely elements of collectivism, or rather of utilitarianism, where all decisions are made in the name of a "greater good". However it is decidedly not Marxist, and utilitarianism is not part of the postmodern school of philosophical thought.
@@byzantinebasilieia9783To corroborate, there's also shades of Buddhism with the tome of Koslun being made after his own ascetic journey. The main difference is that Buddhism merged with existing social apparatuses, where the Qun is a social program akin to Islam. Really there is no simple reference in the Qunari but a dynamic concept called integration. The priesthood take a fine siv and examine everything in their society like a grain of sand, then assign rules based on hard objectives. This is exactly like how philosophy as a practice is performed, bad ideas get left behind and bad Qunari are allowed to fail. Even the concept of higher reality is anathema in the Qun since that's what the fade is, they don't dream, don't treat their kadavers with special reverence, and suppress magical practice. Spoilers, magic as a trope is deeply connected to faith and creativity. It sounds a lot less like the Republic and more like a nation hyper fixed on secular evolution.
you have to remember that as the military head of the Qun the only thing he knows how to do is military he can not be a diplomat or a negotiater or anything other than the military head if he was he could have easily talked to the kirkwall leaders and told them of what he was looking for and what they needed but being that he was effectively just a commander-in-chief all he could do is sit there and constantly be forced to witness the constant chaos and baiting of the radicals in kirkwall
I think it would be interesting if the Qunari are religious refugees who fled to Thedas after being banished from the original Kossith homeland, much like many of the pilgrims to early N America of our world were. That would mean there is a land out there with completely different Kossith cultures, perhaps inherently chaotic and dangerous, which could explain where such an extreme religious/state doctrine of control could have spawned from.
I just recently started to play the Dragon Age games (love them) and at first I thought it was just another pretty generic high fantasy world (which it is to some extent). But the Qunari are imo the most interesting people and one of the more interesting aspects of the world in general. For once because relatively little is known about them. But also the concept of the Qun is great and adds so much depth to this race/people/culture.
I think of how perfect the Qunari society see themselves. Then I hear Corypheus banter with a Qunari inquisitor: you are not a race, you are a mistake. Kinda makes you wonder.
yeah there's a lot of odd hints throughout the games that there's something deeply *wrong* about the qunari iron bull suggests they've been changed by drinking dragon's blood the warden from origins' son eith morrigan (if he uses this as a gambit to survive killing the archdemon) says to a qunari "your blood is not your own" and he has a lot of insightful stuff to say to different races that is often proven as true someone else i remember mentions stuff about "foul blood" and iron bull, when telling the story about where the qunari came from is veru vague in a worrying sense, the line goes somewhat like "they (the other kossith) were.... we had to leave. I doubt they look much like us now, anyway"
@@obamabiden Perhaps the Qunari and the Darkspawn are somehow connected? They are both somewhat related to dragons, so perhaps the Qunari are some early version of Darkspawn corruption, who still maintained their sentience and only revere dragons rater than be controlled by them...
26:38 the funny part is, that's completely at odds with that the excerpt said. It's all about choice, THE CHOICE to master ones self, to learn, to grow, and create, and to destroy. Choice can't exist without freedom "if you force choice it is not choice" as certain Saarebas as once said. It's kind of proof that the Qun have bastardized Ashkaari Koslun's teachings to serve the narrative of slavery they wish to push.
I found your channel just this week, as I started a new playthrough of origins. Binge watched all of your videos by now. Really tremendous work! I've played each Dragon age game, most several times, and I learned something new in each video. Wich gave me so much more ideas on what stories to tell in my next playthroughs. Now I'm eagerly awaiting your next lecture, dear professor!
I once had a former Soviet citizen explain the Qun to me. Here’s the direct comment they posted on Reddit: “As person who perfectly know USSR i declare that Qun is nothing like a USSR, not Lenin and Trotsky USSR version before WW2, not Stalin USSR version before and in the time of WW2, and not USSR what was after WW2, Stalin and Khrushchev and times of Cold War until Gorbachev and end of USSR. Qun is literaly a Pol Pot Red Khmer regime 1)no money as trade relationships, religion as anything what is beyond regime is not allowed and everyone is punished by reeducation or execution 2)forced mono nation ideology as culture(everyone reeducated-brainwashed to be the same nation and deny their own true origin, culture, language and etc) 3)sex and reproduction as leaders decided and leaders decide who sleep with who and when 4)very restricted education with total propoganda and raising fanatic soldiers since childhood who would be ready to kill everyone when leaders order them 5)no one have any private property 6)everyone not have any rights as freadoms and literal slaves-property of leaders raised since childhood as leaders decided and have their life roles as leaders decided) 7)Karl Marks books=Tome of Koslun is the only book considered legit and allowed as forced to read by anyone, all others are declared as heresy and was burned with teachers and those who know it. With some Order of Assassins vibes of brainwashing peoples as making everyone ready to lie, pretend that they are non-Qun and do suicide missions for the sake of Qun if Qun leaders order them”
I'd heavily disagree with some on the points (there's a decent amount of sexual freedom within the qun, the Tome of Koslun isn't the "only book" within the qun, and very different attitudes towards re-education and execution. I think the qunari certainly is inspired by collectivism/some communist beliefs but we don't really see re-education used to deny converts of their origins, nor the complete lack of private property. Is the Qunari a restrictive society with faults that's commonly found in many other collectivist nations? Absolutely yes. But is the Qunari basicaly just fantasy communism? I'd argue not really. Like the whole breeding program/re-education is messed up, but there's evidence that the qunari has a little more (and less) freedom and different interpretations than irl Socialist/ "communist" countries in some respects.
@@yona1478 A bit of a scemantic argument though. Liek arguing the Lotr Orcs (from the movies, I know that tolkien did mention in letterst hat good orcs could exist) are very evil and a hoard of destructive force but that they may have some good points to them.
42:16 the race identify gender via their job Example: A female that is a warrior is no longer seen as female but as male the physical body isn't the identifier for gender I believe it was DA:I when you speak to ironbull regarding Cremes gender preference that he states this belief to your character.
I got the feel that they were their job. Like iron bull would not be considered a man but just a ben-hassrath. Its all about their job and what they do
I don't remember him saying that. Iron Bull said that Cremes sees himself as a man and that he should be accepted because a man with horns like Iron Bull and the Inquisitor who has a glowing hand shouldn't judge what is and isn't normal.
@@Rodiacreed If you talk to him he points out the while the Qunari conform to gender role's its based on Occupation not biological. Sten also confirms this in origins. The video is well made but also ignores/omits a lot of (yes positive) happenings that go into being apart of the Quni. They have festive occasions there's many who aren't brain washed or raised but simply want order and stability. A lot of perspectives from outside the Qun and a by the books image of a totalitarian philosophy but they don't immediately go to torture or murder. If you only see this video you would assume that the Qunari go straight to breaking people knee caps when in fact that's not the norm
Since they added them as a playable race in inquisition I’m really hoping they keep the qunari a playable race in dreadwolf there just so badass to play
the bit about gender seems a bit off. biological women can become soldiers, but then they are seen as men. this is kind of spoken about ion the banter between sten and morrigan in origins
@@DrakeCaliburn It's not, it's purely on how they view gender roles. You Fight? Your Male regardless of whether or not you consider yourself Male. Same for Female roles.
@@ShadowWolfRising Then how come you see no obvious female soldiers If they are viewed male regardless does that mean a woman who pretends to be male can be mated with a woman :D?? This twanz bullshit is only added to make the qun seem less like the islam to thedas' christianity, but overall it was never shown nor makes it sense within everything else we know about the qun
Ouuu, Thanks YT for actually recommending a video I'd like. I love the Qunari, sure my first intro was in Inquisition, but honestly I fell in love with them both in appearance, as well as the lore bits we get from Iron Bull(my favorite LI lol). While what we do learn from him isn't all that good, it was very fascinating hearing about their culture, especially when playing as a Tal-Vashoth
Small correction, while the whole "your sex determines your job" thing was established in Origins, this was retconned in Inquisition. If you take Cassandra and Iron Bull around with you, you will get a dialogue that addresses this fact. Iron Bull explains that gender and sex are two different things and that sex is meaningless under the Qun. If someone is suited to military work, they will be assigned the gender of male, regardless of their biological sex. This is very rare however and thus about 95-99% of the military is biologically male, but not all. He also expresses that to reconcile Cassandra, a female-identifying woman, as a warrior in his mind, Bull essentially sees her as female when they are in Skyhold and as a male when she is in armor and fighting. This is also why he has no problems with Krem, someone born female but clearly suited to a masculine military role as his second-in-command. This implies that while very VERY rare, there are also a few biologically male Tamassrans who have been raised as and are living as women to fulfill that role.
I hate this retcon so much. What I loved the most about Origins was seeing people and cultures who are content living in a society completely different from ours and have no desire to conform to human standards. Really made you want to try and understand people like Sten instead of just trying to "correct" them
Imagine that. The warrior zealots that put Kirkwall to the sword because their religion demanded it are totally for LGBTQ+ rights. The Qunari of Origin and DA 2 were facinating because their way of life was so different yet seemed so tantalising during Stens philosophical musings. Yet in DA 2 the hammer and anvil of the Qun showed a zealous certainty and unwavering will. No poetics and parabels, just force and violence. The Arishock granted even greater insight in their world of utopian slavery and it was frightening. Come Inquisition and most of that is swept away. Iron Bull is sexually liberated and the Qun is lifted up as almost admirable due to how much more progressive they are in the view on gender.
@@odd-eyes6363 I very much agree with you. It feels futile to delve into the lore just for it to be changed in later titles. And not in an organic way by finding out certain things which were assumed happen to be untrue, but by simply stating that this has actually always been the case and what was said before should be ignored
The change made sense to me. The Qun is all about efficiency and being productive. While they have strict rules when it comes to gender, they're not gonna force someone to do a job they're not good at cause it'll be less efficient. If you were born male but are a great tamassran, then you can be a tamassran but since it's a female job you are now considered a female. If you were born female but make a great sten, the you can be a sten but it's a male job so now you are referred as male. The Qun isn't really a gender based society as their identity is more tied to their role/job in the Qun, some of which are tied to a gender.
Now THIS is what I’m talking about. This is what I look for in a fantasy setting. Something familiar, yet unmistakably alien in appearance and philosophy from that of the more common and mundane human centric themes/tropes.
It was good of Dragon Age Inquisition to let the Dragon Age Fans to play as a Qunari Inquistor. I do hope that Dread Wolf will let us play as Qunari, no matter what the faction is in that game.
I really don't like how the Qunari look in Dragon Age Inquisition and Dragon Age Veil Guard. In Dragon Age 2, they look menacing. In the new games, they look like Handsome Squidward with horns
@wintertrooper7918 Modern socialists are inclusive and progressive in regards to how different people are treated, such as the alphabet folk, yet are incredibly racist towards blacks, Hispanics, whites, the working classes, and heterosexuals. Socialists also believe anyone who doesn't think exactly like them is evil.
Is it any wonder why the caste systems are the most technologically superior societies? It's validating Plato's Republic. The Qunari are more in-line with the "ideal society" what with their Triumvirate matching almost exactly to the Guardians, Auxiliaries, and Craftsman outlined by Plato than the Dwarves who have a less flexible caste system. As an extension of the Ariqun, the Tamassran priesthood deigns what job is suitable for a child once they come of age. This single distinction seems to be what gives them an edge against other civilizations.
Another wonderful video! I'm really interested in the qunari and hope they appear more in the next game. A lovely narration as always, thank you sincerely for your work!
I think the Qun maybe one of the most Nuanced Philosophies I have seen in Fantasy. In one way, it has some beautiful concepts and ideas. In practice, it does some good, but mostly awful things. To me, If I lived in Thedas, I do not think I could be Qunari. But i think I would take bits of it, like many philosophies, and apply what I felt was good to my own life. Self Mastery, mixed with what the Qunari would view as its tonal opposite, Exploration of the Self, can lead to deep Individuation of your Psyche, I believe. On the other hand, something I find of note, one of their beliefs is that "There is no Chaos, only Complexity" I like this line, however, I feel they don't truly believe this. If they did, they would understand their own "Complexity" instead of fearing the chaos it brings. Like many real world Ideologies and Religions, they take or leave certain bits, or ignore them outright to suit their own agendas.
I'm fascinated that I hate normal history class but discovery channel and video game historic lore? Man I watch this stuff like it ranks #1 on Netflix 🍿
AAA thank you for covering the Kossith 😩 I've been waiting for a long time for DA Lore Gurus to cover them. But they somehow just talking about the Kossith lore itself rather than debating and researching it. THANK YOU AGAIN!!
Love the Video, the Qun is so fascinating! You forgot to mention the 'Aqun-Athlok' or those "born as one gender but living as another", Qunari who serve in a role that is typically not associated with their own gender.
I can see why he didn’t cover it because depending on your perspective it is either incredibly complex and doesn’t fit well within the other descriptions of the Qun or it’s just political theater thrown in for virtue signaling. Honestly it’s a bit of both.
@@grigori9061 Yeah the begendered bs doesn't make sense. Either have the mind and body role be strictly seperated by bio sex or not. The qunari female warriors won't be suddenly refered as he/him because the lore crew aren't that genderretardes
Unless they patched it since I last played DA:I, I was never a fan of how tiny the female Qunari head was compared to the rest of the body. (Especially when compared to the concept art, where their head looked more proportionally correct.)
I don't think I noticed the disproportioned head, honestly I was more bothered by the lack of good hair styles for a female Qunari. I wanted to long flowing white hair like in the tarot card or at least decent hair styles. Instead what we got just sucked. Though both male and female Qunari customization options disappointed me greatly. And instead of having a separate model for them, all Qunari have to use generic facepaints which didn't look great, I liked how helmets looked on Qunari in DA2, one of the few positives I have for that game. Would've been cool to have a mage Qunari be masked instead of hooded for example or how the Helm of the First Inquisitor might look on Qunari with horns poking out from the helmet.
_"It means a nationalist, imperialist, totalitarian, homogenous culture that obliterates the identity of every group it conquers._ _Long-term stability at all costs. The individual has no value beyond his utility to the state, whether as an instrument of war, or production."_
If a Qunari mage is considered a weapon and is also highly respected, even though leashed and feared there has to be such a level of ...idk what to even call it, it's deeper than love or respect. It's kind of beautiful in a fucked up way..just me thought 🤔
Mix communism, totalitarianism, lack of love and empathy, eugenics, fanatical militarism, no religion tolerance, complete rejection of individualism, expansionism, no morality, no problem with committing genocides, and than we have it, Qun ideology/religion. It is totally understandable why so many people in Thedas are fascinated in this great philosophical system.
The Qun is only viable if you think people are too stupid to make their own decisions, especially frivolous ones. They don't maximize happiness, they maximize _health._ I trust people to make frivolous decisions. So I despise the Qun.
I'm trying to watch as much of this as I can before work though I might need to finish it this evening. I've been waiting for the next lecture. The videos are so in depth.
I don’t know that the Qunari gender roles are particularly based in sex. When an individual is given a role that doesn’t match their sex because they are well suited to it, they are simply considered to be the other sex, as their identities are totally tied to their role and not any sense of self bodily or otherwise. So while all individuals of a certain role are indeed men, it does not follow that all of those individuals are biologically male.
@@chriscolumbia9834 That's outright untrue. If you speak to bull he explains it the same as the commenter above. A person adopting a male role is considered male regardless of biological sex and vice versa. He says this in one of his first available dialogue options.
I think the Qunari are a fascinating and worrying example. The philosophy is sound and the society it has created......solid if nothing else. I can also see its appeal for many people, especially those who feel lost, who feel that having to make choices for their own life is too much responsibility, and most of all, those who have fallen through the cracks in society. Even in this comment section, you see lots of people who would gladly give up their free will for "the certainty of the Qun". The certainty that if you just do as the Qun tells you, you will have what you need, make no mistakes, and be serving the purpose that is best suited for you. That is a very tantalizing idea if you have been struggling with being unable to achieve your dreams, struggling in poverty, or even struggling to nail down what your dreams even are. If you are one of those people, please be very careful of cult rhetoric in the real world as they will often offer this same "certainty". As Solas says when he talks about the Qun, "it is just a kinder form of slavery".
i haven't played in years but isn't there a whole subplot in DA2 where humans non Qunari are converted willingly to the Qun. i swear there's a quest with some wayward son of some aristocrat that joins the Qun and Hawke has to rescue him?
You could not have put this out at a better time!! I just started my first time trying to play a Qunari Inquiz lol! Ill be sure to listen to this while going around the world with Iron bull.
The long awaited qunari video well done love it. Do qunari and elves in the Dragon age universe share the same origins it is hinted at especially in inquisiton? Other than that a great video keep it up👍
OMG just about spit out my food when I saw this pop up! *does happy dance and settles in for a good listen* thank you kindly for the hard work you put into these for us! much appreciated!!
I stand in solidarity with your brave confession. Just to be clear, I prefer DA2's design and I was sad when the player Kossith in DA:I was too "human".
@@meodrac I thought they felt off! I couldn't place my finger on it. But now that you bring that up yea that's what it was. And it continued into the dlcs too when more Qunari show up. Like a strange form of the uncanny valley.
I think it is strange that the grey wardens never have gather all the nations to purge the deep roads. They knew that a lot of darkspawn exist there andyet not done it. It's like living with a knife at your throat when they do not purge the deep roads from the darkspawn.
"Hey yall want to fight an eternal war against an enemy that outnumbers us and has no logistical needs that we have? It will be super expensive, might leave us exposed to the next blight, ect ect."
The deep roads are often perilous for larger groups because they’re hard to navigate and too many people can collapse the fragile bridges and ancient cliffs you have to traverse. Also, no matter how many you take in, there will always be more darkspawn than your current number 10 to 1. You WILL be overwhelmed. Also, the casualties would be so great that it would cripple the entire continent for generations. Like triple Ghengis Khan levels of death. The darkspawn breed down there as well as live down there. The hives are, for non-wardens, instantaneous death. Also, the blight spreads from darkspawn hurting people. So, safe to say you’d send lots of young men and women back home only for blight to spread with them. Magic black death seems like a terrible idea to me
The reason why Islam comes to mind regarding to the qun because like the Qun, most schools of jurisdictional Islam sees no separation between its dogma , the state, and the individual. All of mankind is destined to come into Islam, and the entire worldwide body of believers is known as the Ummah... which means it's not an ethnic nationhood but one of (forced) association. It's also the obligation and mission of the Ummah to expand itself. In practice, Islam is a human institution and thus its believers run the gambit between very devout and very disinterested. The various branches of it rose up in response to historical, political local conditions and relations with the outside world. There's also profound differences between Islamic schools between how the end goal is to be achieved, how things should be run in the meantime, and of course that x% just don't care, and y% are willing to die for it. And on the other side of the Qun is the collectivism. Brand it with whatever flavor you want Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Plato's Republic. What you have is the State dictating your role in society (based on your talents, I guess) and therefore the opposite of free enterprise and individualism. Thus you have a very dangerous mix of extreme utopian universalist elite-controlled ideology that sees itself as the end-game for the entire planet that Thedas is a part of with no eventual possibility of co-existence once it's in a position to dominate any dissent.
Islam and christianity both share that trait. The reason why we dont see it as clearly within christianity today is due to the Enlightenment period and its secularization of the western world. There are also interpretations of islam with a more accepting view on different beliefs.
You're kind of othering one religion and not seeing the similarities... Actually, the 3 Abrahamic faiths all have elements of that because they all share the same rule that "there is only one God" and idolatry is evil. (Muslims are famous for not depicting Mohammed, but they actually don't depict anyone because it's considered idolatry...Jews don't depict God either, and used Yahweh/YWH to not pronounce a name.) Judaism didn't force conversion, much, because they saw themselves as the chosen people, so exclusivity to a degree. (Read their history and they conquered plenty of non-believers) Islamic empires limited forced conversion for economic reasons. Non-muslims were taxed more (Dhimi, means people of the book Christians/Jews) but polytheistic religions weren't tolerated and forced to convert. Christians forced conversion and didn't even tolerate other Abrahamic faiths until very recently. Inquisition targeted protestants, muslims, jews, pagans, etc. Dragoons/Huguenots. (The Klan was anti-catholic). President Kennedy wasn't trusted for being Catholic among protestants. The Troubles in Ireland Catholic/Protestant separation. (I studied neurology but minored in medieval era history (Africa and Middle East) ...random, I know :p)
@@TragoudistrosMPH As someone with a degree in Religion Science, I can say you are completely correct. Well, I cant confirm the US part concerning the KKK and Kennedys struggles, simply because that is outside my expertise. Considering the relationship between Catholicism and Protestantism, and the US tradition being highly religious, I find it highly likely tho.
These lore videos are great. Very well done. The Qunari sound a lot like the Seanchan from Wheel of Time. After watching many of your videos I see a lot of influence from the Wheel of Time on the world of Dragon Age.
I've watched all the videos so far, and I am wondering... the word "Marches" is the same in "Exalted Marches" and "Free Marches", but you only say it correctly if you say the former, and say it like "Marshes" in any other case. Is there a reason for this I am missing?
@@loreuniversity895 I see. That makes sense. I did not mean offense, at any rate. I enjoy your videos very much, thank you for the effort you put into them.
Thank you for covering this! I've been trying to find the story that inspired Tim Burton's film, but haven't had any luck. I was looking in the wrong place!
Thank you for watching, there will be more videos in the future. I don't have any thoughts on that theory because I'm not very well versed in it. Honestly I'm not that interested in speculative videos and theory-crafting. At least not when it comes to the Dragon Age lore.
42:02 is directly contradicted by Iron Bull in Inquisition when in conversation with Krem. Aqun-Athlok are those whos sex at birth do not match the role given to them, and live as the role/gender assigned by the tamasserans
A great summary. Thank you! Quanari and the Q’un is a really good attempt to create something believable, relatable with inner consistency in a fantasy setting. The dwarven society has its points and parts. But the Quanari is really a fresh new creation. It is a bit fuzzy here and there… some parts as part of uncertain narrators ingame as well as lack of real insight since they mostly are at the edges of the story … some parts likely because the devs and writers are making some stuff up as they go. Understandable. So far, in the canon in my head, it all comes together something like this: # start/creation as a widespread genetic experiment by powerful elven mages long before the events of creation of the Veil. Or long back in history when the different races came into being - no common ancestor to expect here. # created/bred with high level of aggressiveness and focus on strength and intelligence. Aim to be some form of “advanced” species. # At some point they where set “free”. Either by directed effort/rebellion or they where left overs and simply needed to continue onwards by themselves. # Most important cultural core is the creation of the Way of the Q’un. Not of any historical rebellion or other struggle… The main core is this spiritual/existential one - aimed to manage the high level as chaotic aggressiveness within them and no outside force to direct and control them. The Q’un (in my head canon) was a crossroad event - the most core important one. A deep and complex set of beliefs and social structures set around the simple statement of diverting the chaotic aggressive energy into a societal drive. # The application during the centuries have shown many of similar other “humanoid” challenges regarding pride and social status and private agendas. # There is a longbrooding inner turmoil increasing in strength within the Q’unari leadership and groupings. I fantasize about there being pure “spiritual true” (main focus to keep enabling the internal efforts without denying the outside world to leave as they themselves see fit) power factions and military inclined subgroups and personal-power-groups wanting to increase their own power for power’s sake as well as a spiritual groups with very active goals of conquering/converting the whole world as part of their spiritual belief of what the most vital part of the Q’un. # As of the content in DA:I and the short story collection in Tevinter Nights the different power factions are being seen. And it is yet unclear what the ultimate goals are and how the internal power struggles are. # Invidualism within the groupings are encouraged. Free intellectual thoughts increase efficiency. But only within the confines of the grouping or social role. # Constant balancing between individualistic exploring and complying to the social norms creates friction. We see some parts of it when following different paths that Bull goes through. Some different parts through the eyes of Sten. # Again, my personal head canon, I await more coming info about an upcoming new type of crossroads event for the Q’unari as a whole - the choice between constant never ending expansion by force vs Choosing a path of spiritual expansion through attracting outsiders by ways of showing and living a more harmonious and effective lives without need of violence unless for self defence. Again. This is not a lore compilation. It’s simply my present, constantly evolving, head canon. :-)
Iron Bull does state that the Qun does treat transgendered (unfortunately I don’t remember the exact qunari word that Bull uses) individuals as the gender they say they are; assigning them to the appropriate roles as they see it. So Krem, while biologically female, would be seen as & treated as male; assigned a male role.
There was a retcon from what I know, so I think the video is based on Origins lore on this matter. The now cannon Qunari care more about the efficiency in a role from an individual than, in the past, bilogical limitations/benefits. Oh, and the term is Aqun-athlok.
Don't have anything against transgender people but this retcon doesn't make sense to me. For the Qun you are a body, best fitted to perform a task. The only two thing that makes sense is 1) you judge everyone based on merit and assign them their role in accord to their strong points, in which case gender doesn't matter, or 2) you divide by *sex*, since biological differences are a thing measurable to some degrees. Dividing tasks based on gender doesn't make any sense for a philosophy that rejects individualism.
Still forgets to mention the Aqun-Athlok. In Qunlat, it means "one who is born as one gender but lives as another". In Dragon Age Inquisition, one member of the Iron Bull's company, a human named Krem, is Aqun-Athlok.
I dunno how to feel about that. For a society where individuality is seen with contempt and everyone is required to fill the rolls they are literally bred for that sounds way to inclusive. Gender rolls are so ingrained in Qunari society that the concept of a woman being a warrior is impossible to them and anyone that doesn't bend the knee to the Will of the Qun is either reeducated, executed, or lobotomized. But they accept LGBTQ+ concepts? That doesn't make sense to me.
@@Scream_Lord Seems simple enough to me. Qunari do not believe your body is you; so gender and sex will not correlate. This doesn't make the Qun any less oppressive, just that the culture is slightly better at comprehending 'trans' identities than Thedosian cultures do. Honestly, it is the least interesting thing about the Qunari.
@@Scream_LordIt doesn't make sense inside their society. A woman who want to live as a man is not going to be permitted to do so. I think is a word used to describe transgender people outside of the Qun. I don't remember if the transgender inside the Bull's company is actually part of the Qunari but I don't think so. If they were it would make zero sense.
@@cristianturbian2513 the trans person isn't part of the Qunsri but it's Iron Bull that describes him that way. He explains most of it, it has to do with that "assigned at 12" thing that's talked about. if they train you to be a warrior but you suck at it, you get put in the administration and since they're all women you are a woman now. I will say the fact is we haven't gotten any real looks in on the Qun working in its own environment, so we don't really know a whole lot about the day to day of Qunari childhood. Also I think the Qunari system would still miss people who realize later in life, but it is mentioned that the priesthood provides counseling so I could see it being a part of that.. Also not for nothing, I know this argument may fall of deaf ears, but in IRL cultures that have valued societal cohesion historically, usually Eastern cultures, transness isn't that weird, at least when compared to gayness. But also this sorta gets back to the broader East Vs West division which the original designers certainly pulled from when creating the Qunari. Culturally the Qunari are so foreign to Thedas it's possible the concepts of gender don't map 1-1 into the Qunari language and "Man" and Woman" are just the closest translations in the common tongue. Tldr, the Qunari are weird, gender is weird, Qunari probably have weird ideas about gender that don't map on to our own ideas even down to a language level.
Those are the calendar dates of the Dragon Age universe. The first number is the age in question and the number after the colon is which year during the age the date is, from 1 to 99. If you want to know more I made a video on the topic: m.th-cam.com/video/XrP4335-LJA/w-d-xo.html
Interesting. I found a great deal about the philosophy / religion to be interesting and even attractive but what it turned into in terms of a society is pretty scary. A philosophy / religion of self respect and enlightenment has been turned into an ideological justification of tyranny, oppression and brutality. I just wonder just how did it turn into that? I find it hard to believe that it started out that way. I do find it interesting that each one of the societies in this world have very serious ideological and social problems. I just wonder if this world is approaching some sort of smashup. Some sort of ideological showdown in which the various practices and oppressions of each one the main societies of this world lead to the various societies experiencing an existential crisis.
Major correction: the Qun is atheistic because there are no gods. Atheism is simply not having a belief that gods exist. There are numerous atheistic religions. Minor correction: the third person non-gendered possesive is spelled "its." There is no apostrophe. "It's" is a conjunction of "it is." Think "your" (second person possesive) versus "you're" (conjunction of second person pronoun and second person form of the verb "to be.") In regards to the opening disclaimer.
Thank you for pointing out the grammatical thing, I will keep it in mind. As for the Qun being atheistic, the former lead writer for the series David Gaider said it is, so Im basing it on that. twitter.com/davidgaider/status/222482726664667136
You're defining agnosticism. That's different than atheism. Atheist is having no religion or god. Buddhism is an agnostic religion, where they don't worship any God (they aspire to be more like Buddha and revere him, but don't worship him), but they are open to philosophical debate about religion and God's. For example
Correction atheism is having no religion and no explanation for the world existing and simply believing that the purpose of life is to simply exist while the qun is more akin to Buddhism as the follow strict religious beliefs while not really worshipping any gods just like Buddhism its an idea that one should live there life a certain way to reach enlightenment just like the Buddhism equivalent of reaching nirvana the only difference Is that Buddhism does believe God's exist they do not worship them and only try to appease them when the situation is believed to acquire it but they do not actively worship any God and simply live their life a certain way to achieve nirvana or total enlightenment just like the followers of the qun
It would have been interesting if the recovery of the tome of koslun had led to some reformation of Qunari society back towards Ashkaari Koslun's ideals
Qunari: *Removes horns to look scary*
Humans: *Puts horns on helmets to look scary*
Elves: walk around barefoot in the wilderness
Dwarves: midgets
The roots of the Qunari, philosophy and beliefs in perfection of the self, and the refusal of suffering is both beautiful and crucial to success. However the execution of these beliefs is very totalitarian, unfortunately a lot like societies of our own world.
The theories of the Qun have some similarities with stoicism from what I have noticed, but yes the execution in practice is indeed very totalitarian.
A good theory badly implemened because it tries to circumvent human nature.
@@loreuniversity895 one thing the qun does best is specalize as everyone has a role and duty. There is a reason they are the only race besides 1 dwarf to develop gun powder and iron vessels.
I think the Qunari sided with Caesar 😉 in fallout New Vegas lol 😂
The best of intentions…
Love imagining how the horn retcon went down. Someone probably sketched out an absolutely badass horned Qunari and theyre like "damnit Geoff, this is genius! Where were you last week?!"
I find it interesting how people apply modern day ideology to the Qun when it’s evident that they are more closely related to Plato’s Republic
It is modern. By definition. Even if it it has similarities to other things, the similarities to Marxism and Postmodern Philosophies is accurate in many ways.
@@chickenmonger123 Yes exactly! I like the original comment, but I agree with you! To say we can not learn from our own history is theost absurd thing possible. It's the WHOLE point!
To refuse to judge the people of the past means to also fail to learn from them. The greatest judgment possible is admiration and inspiration. The good must come with the bad, these are our ancestors and the conflicts and morality of today happen on almost the exact same geographic coordinates that it happened in the past too. Same battles and same sins.
How appropriate, since Plato basically led the west back into a cave, now it's used to embody fictional people literally likened to oxen.
@@chickenmonger123 It is not Marxist. No Qunari workers have freedom to choose or ownership over the means of production. Take Solas' story of a Qunari baker rebelling by adding pinches of sugar where she is able. If she owned the means of her production, she would not need to rebel in small ways in her own labour. There are definitely elements of collectivism, or rather of utilitarianism, where all decisions are made in the name of a "greater good". However it is decidedly not Marxist, and utilitarianism is not part of the postmodern school of philosophical thought.
@@byzantinebasilieia9783To corroborate, there's also shades of Buddhism with the tome of Koslun being made after his own ascetic journey. The main difference is that Buddhism merged with existing social apparatuses, where the Qun is a social program akin to Islam. Really there is no simple reference in the Qunari but a dynamic concept called integration. The priesthood take a fine siv and examine everything in their society like a grain of sand, then assign rules based on hard objectives. This is exactly like how philosophy as a practice is performed, bad ideas get left behind and bad Qunari are allowed to fail. Even the concept of higher reality is anathema in the Qun since that's what the fade is, they don't dream, don't treat their kadavers with special reverence, and suppress magical practice. Spoilers, magic as a trope is deeply connected to faith and creativity. It sounds a lot less like the Republic and more like a nation hyper fixed on secular evolution.
qunari starts attacking->lose -> "it was unsanctioned"
i was against Anders when he blew up the Chantry, but if Solas carpet bombs Par-vollen, he will have my support with two hands.
you have to remember that as the military head of the Qun the only thing he knows how to do is military he can not be a diplomat or a negotiater or anything other than the military head if he was he could have easily talked to the kirkwall leaders and told them of what he was looking for and what they needed but being that he was effectively just a commander-in-chief all he could do is sit there and constantly be forced to witness the constant chaos and baiting of the radicals in kirkwall
@@powerthunfischdesdonners3086 the Antaam 😂
I think it would be interesting if the Qunari are religious refugees who fled to Thedas after being banished from the original Kossith homeland, much like many of the pilgrims to early N America of our world were. That would mean there is a land out there with completely different Kossith cultures, perhaps inherently chaotic and dangerous, which could explain where such an extreme religious/state doctrine of control could have spawned from.
That could also imply that the Qunari are more fundamentalist and strict than the faith they came from originally, like the puritan pilgrims
At the end of Act 2
Aveline: “You lived your life for the Qun, you gonna die for some Elves?”
Arishok: “Someone is.”
“Saar” is a prefix that means “dangerous” in qunlat. Ex. Saarebas is “Dangerous Thing”, because “Bas” means “thing”
I just recently started to play the Dragon Age games (love them) and at first I thought it was just another pretty generic high fantasy world (which it is to some extent). But the Qunari are imo the most interesting people and one of the more interesting aspects of the world in general. For once because relatively little is known about them. But also the concept of the Qun is great and adds so much depth to this race/people/culture.
I think of how perfect the Qunari society see themselves. Then I hear Corypheus banter with a Qunari inquisitor: you are not a race, you are a mistake.
Kinda makes you wonder.
I do believe that they are the result of an experiment, and not simply evolution. Hopefully we find out more.
@@AndersWatches I think some people theorized that they were created with dragon blood.
@@reffa2858 yes, I believe it has something to do with dragons blood and ghilan’nain
yeah there's a lot of odd hints throughout the games that there's something deeply *wrong* about the qunari
iron bull suggests they've been changed by drinking dragon's blood
the warden from origins' son eith morrigan (if he uses this as a gambit to survive killing the archdemon) says to a qunari "your blood is not your own" and he has a lot of insightful stuff to say to different races that is often proven as true
someone else i remember mentions stuff about "foul blood"
and iron bull, when telling the story about where the qunari came from is veru vague in a worrying sense, the line goes somewhat like "they (the other kossith) were.... we had to leave. I doubt they look much like us now, anyway"
@@obamabiden
Perhaps the Qunari and the Darkspawn are somehow connected? They are both somewhat related to dragons, so perhaps the Qunari are some early version of Darkspawn corruption, who still maintained their sentience and only revere dragons rater than be controlled by them...
26:38 the funny part is, that's completely at odds with that the excerpt said. It's all about choice, THE CHOICE to master ones self, to learn, to grow, and create, and to destroy. Choice can't exist without freedom "if you force choice it is not choice" as certain Saarebas as once said. It's kind of proof that the Qun have bastardized Ashkaari Koslun's teachings to serve the narrative of slavery they wish to push.
You really are my favorite DAO lore master. It's your channel that helps me continue replaying Origins.
2:24 converts of humans elves and dwarfs are called the Viddathari if I recall correctly.
I find the Qunari so interesting, they're my favorite group in the Dragon Age series
Shenadan sten
I found your channel just this week, as I started a new playthrough of origins. Binge watched all of your videos by now. Really tremendous work! I've played each Dragon age game, most several times, and I learned something new in each video. Wich gave me so much more ideas on what stories to tell in my next playthroughs. Now I'm eagerly awaiting your next lecture, dear professor!
I once had a former Soviet citizen explain the Qun to me. Here’s the direct comment they posted on Reddit:
“As person who perfectly know USSR i declare that Qun is nothing like a USSR, not Lenin and Trotsky USSR version before WW2, not Stalin USSR version before and in the time of WW2, and not USSR what was after WW2, Stalin and Khrushchev and times of Cold War until Gorbachev and end of USSR.
Qun is literaly a Pol Pot Red Khmer regime
1)no money as trade relationships, religion as anything what is beyond regime is not allowed and everyone is punished by reeducation or execution
2)forced mono nation ideology as culture(everyone reeducated-brainwashed to be the same nation and deny their own true origin, culture, language and etc)
3)sex and reproduction as leaders decided and leaders decide who sleep with who and when
4)very restricted education with total propoganda and raising fanatic soldiers since childhood who would be ready to kill everyone when leaders order them
5)no one have any private property
6)everyone not have any rights as freadoms and literal slaves-property of leaders raised since childhood as leaders decided and have their life roles as leaders decided)
7)Karl Marks books=Tome of Koslun is the only book considered legit and allowed as forced to read by anyone, all others are declared as heresy and was burned with teachers and those who know it.
With some Order of Assassins vibes of brainwashing peoples as making everyone ready to lie, pretend that they are non-Qun and do suicide missions for the sake of Qun if Qun leaders order them”
This is totally correct.
I'd heavily disagree with some on the points (there's a decent amount of sexual freedom within the qun, the Tome of Koslun isn't the "only book" within the qun, and very different attitudes towards re-education and execution. I think the qunari certainly is inspired by collectivism/some communist beliefs but we don't really see re-education used to deny converts of their origins, nor the complete lack of private property.
Is the Qunari a restrictive society with faults that's commonly found in many other collectivist nations? Absolutely yes. But is the Qunari basicaly just fantasy communism? I'd argue not really. Like the whole breeding program/re-education is messed up, but there's evidence that the qunari has a little more (and less) freedom and different interpretations than irl Socialist/ "communist" countries in some respects.
@@yona1478 A bit of a scemantic argument though. Liek arguing the Lotr Orcs (from the movies, I know that tolkien did mention in letterst hat good orcs could exist) are very evil and a hoard of destructive force but that they may have some good points to them.
42:16
the race identify gender via their job
Example: A female that is a warrior is no longer seen as female but as male
the physical body isn't the identifier for gender
I believe it was DA:I when you speak to ironbull regarding Cremes gender preference that he states this belief to your character.
I got the feel that they were their job. Like iron bull would not be considered a man but just a ben-hassrath. Its all about their job and what they do
Thats a bit different he respected cremms gender choice as a friend however you are right gender is more seen as a job allocation.
I don't remember him saying that. Iron Bull said that Cremes sees himself as a man and that he should be accepted because a man with horns like Iron Bull and the Inquisitor who has a glowing hand shouldn't judge what is and isn't normal.
@@Rodiacreed If you talk to him he points out the while the Qunari conform to gender role's its based on Occupation not biological. Sten also confirms this in origins.
The video is well made but also ignores/omits a lot of (yes positive) happenings that go into being apart of the Quni. They have festive occasions there's many who aren't brain washed or raised but simply want order and stability.
A lot of perspectives from outside the Qun and a by the books image of a totalitarian philosophy but they don't immediately go to torture or murder.
If you only see this video you would assume that the Qunari go straight to breaking people knee caps when in fact that's not the norm
Since they added them as a playable race in inquisition I’m really hoping they keep the qunari a playable race in dreadwolf there just so badass to play
"Magic is a sword without a hilt" by Sten
That's a Conan quote.
the bit about gender seems a bit off. biological women can become soldiers, but then they are seen as men. this is kind of spoken about ion the banter between sten and morrigan in origins
It's actually interesting that they went with "work > gender" and not "agab > work".
the qunari waste nothing, warriors included
@@avaiblehandle That is the weirdest trans allyship I've ever seen but I'm not going to knock it
@@DrakeCaliburn It's not, it's purely on how they view gender roles.
You Fight? Your Male regardless of whether or not you consider yourself Male.
Same for Female roles.
@@ShadowWolfRising
Then how come you see no obvious female soldiers
If they are viewed male regardless does that mean a woman who pretends to be male can be mated with a woman :D??
This twanz bullshit is only added to make the qun seem less like the islam to thedas' christianity, but overall it was never shown nor makes it sense within everything else we know about the qun
"the qunari are dangerous because they are thinking men." by Sten
They're a creation.
A cross between Elf and Dragon.
The Qunari are from another continent. From what we know elves originated from Thedas. It's more plausible the Qunari are a separate species.
Ouuu, Thanks YT for actually recommending a video I'd like. I love the Qunari, sure my first intro was in Inquisition, but honestly I fell in love with them both in appearance, as well as the lore bits we get from Iron Bull(my favorite LI lol). While what we do learn from him isn't all that good, it was very fascinating hearing about their culture, especially when playing as a Tal-Vashoth
Small correction, while the whole "your sex determines your job" thing was established in Origins, this was retconned in Inquisition. If you take Cassandra and Iron Bull around with you, you will get a dialogue that addresses this fact. Iron Bull explains that gender and sex are two different things and that sex is meaningless under the Qun. If someone is suited to military work, they will be assigned the gender of male, regardless of their biological sex. This is very rare however and thus about 95-99% of the military is biologically male, but not all. He also expresses that to reconcile Cassandra, a female-identifying woman, as a warrior in his mind, Bull essentially sees her as female when they are in Skyhold and as a male when she is in armor and fighting. This is also why he has no problems with Krem, someone born female but clearly suited to a masculine military role as his second-in-command. This implies that while very VERY rare, there are also a few biologically male Tamassrans who have been raised as and are living as women to fulfill that role.
I hate this retcon so much. What I loved the most about Origins was seeing people and cultures who are content living in a society completely different from ours and have no desire to conform to human standards. Really made you want to try and understand people like Sten instead of just trying to "correct" them
@@odd-eyes6363
yeah kind of stupid Bioware would do this. its cool to disagree with the Qun but also see them function so well to their culture anyway
Imagine that. The warrior zealots that put Kirkwall to the sword because their religion demanded it are totally for LGBTQ+ rights.
The Qunari of Origin and DA 2 were facinating because their way of life was so different yet seemed so tantalising during Stens philosophical musings.
Yet in DA 2 the hammer and anvil of the Qun showed a zealous certainty and unwavering will. No poetics and parabels, just force and violence.
The Arishock granted even greater insight in their world of utopian slavery and it was frightening.
Come Inquisition and most of that is swept away. Iron Bull is sexually liberated and the Qun is lifted up as almost admirable due to how much more progressive they are in the view on gender.
@@odd-eyes6363
I very much agree with you. It feels futile to delve into the lore just for it to be changed in later titles. And not in an organic way by finding out certain things which were assumed happen to be untrue, but by simply stating that this has actually always been the case and what was said before should be ignored
The change made sense to me. The Qun is all about efficiency and being productive. While they have strict rules when it comes to gender, they're not gonna force someone to do a job they're not good at cause it'll be less efficient. If you were born male but are a great tamassran, then you can be a tamassran but since it's a female job you are now considered a female. If you were born female but make a great sten, the you can be a sten but it's a male job so now you are referred as male. The Qun isn't really a gender based society as their identity is more tied to their role/job in the Qun, some of which are tied to a gender.
If only somebody on the development team for Veilguard listened to something like this.
Now THIS is what I’m talking about. This is what I look for in a fantasy setting. Something familiar, yet unmistakably alien in appearance and philosophy from that of the more common and mundane human centric themes/tropes.
It was good of Dragon Age Inquisition to let the Dragon Age Fans to play as a Qunari Inquistor. I do hope that Dread Wolf will let us play as Qunari, no matter what the faction is in that game.
I want to be able to play as a qunari who currently adheres to the Qun, simply because i want to see what special options there would be
@@PrettyPinkPersephone I too want to experience life as Qunari soldier, or a Sareabas Mage.
Using optional player choices as rumors.
Capital thinking there, Abselom.
"There is no chaos in the world,
only complexity."
-Qun Canto 1
I really don't like how the Qunari look in Dragon Age Inquisition and Dragon Age Veil Guard. In Dragon Age 2, they look menacing. In the new games, they look like Handsome Squidward with horns
I couldn't agree more. DA2 Qunari felt like a true menace, Qunari in later games are just... some guys.
At least it's not as bad as in DAO.
A shame that DA2 had such a forced story
What's wrong with DAI qunari though? They are those same horned giants with pretty different distinct facial features.
Finally! I wasn't the only one that see that!
Tammasaran: “i’m a therapist, caregiver to the disabled, and also sometimes i MURDER POLITICAL DISSIDENTS” x)
"Also, if you're ever lonely and need some love. You know where to find me."
This is quite good. Sounds like it’s being delivered by a chantry zealot though
it's very interesting how Qunari culture is both incredibly inclusive and progressive but also incredibly exclusionary and regressive
There's nothing inclusive or progressive about it. They're literal naxis who murder, rape, enslave, torture, and worse. EVIL.
Panahedan basalitan
It's called socialism my dude.
@@Sam-lf3hn that is not socialism
@wintertrooper7918 Modern socialists are inclusive and progressive in regards to how different people are treated, such as the alphabet folk, yet are incredibly racist towards blacks, Hispanics, whites, the working classes, and heterosexuals. Socialists also believe anyone who doesn't think exactly like them is evil.
So awesome to see your quality and views grow!!!! Keep it up, love this series and the college course aspect!
Is it any wonder why the caste systems are the most technologically superior societies? It's validating Plato's Republic. The Qunari are more in-line with the "ideal society" what with their Triumvirate matching almost exactly to the Guardians, Auxiliaries, and Craftsman outlined by Plato than the Dwarves who have a less flexible caste system. As an extension of the Ariqun, the Tamassran priesthood deigns what job is suitable for a child once they come of age. This single distinction seems to be what gives them an edge against other civilizations.
"quanarin or vanquisher in my tongue" - Soul Carin - Dawnguard dlc - Skyrim. Thought it was humorous
Another wonderful video! I'm really interested in the qunari and hope they appear more in the next game. A lovely narration as always, thank you sincerely for your work!
The Qunari have a messed up society but an interesting one. A lot of thought has been put into them.
I think the Qun maybe one of the most Nuanced Philosophies I have seen in Fantasy. In one way, it has some beautiful concepts and ideas. In practice, it does some good, but mostly awful things.
To me, If I lived in Thedas, I do not think I could be Qunari. But i think I would take bits of it, like many philosophies, and apply what I felt was good to my own life. Self Mastery, mixed with what the Qunari would view as its tonal opposite, Exploration of the Self, can lead to deep Individuation of your Psyche, I believe.
On the other hand, something I find of note, one of their beliefs is that "There is no Chaos, only Complexity" I like this line, however, I feel they don't truly believe this. If they did, they would understand their own "Complexity" instead of fearing the chaos it brings. Like many real world Ideologies and Religions, they take or leave certain bits, or ignore them outright to suit their own agendas.
I'm fascinated that I hate normal history class but discovery channel and video game historic lore? Man I watch this stuff like it ranks #1 on Netflix 🍿
The Qunari is my favorite Dragon Age race right next to the Elves.
AAA thank you for covering the Kossith 😩 I've been waiting for a long time for DA Lore Gurus to cover them. But they somehow just talking about the Kossith lore itself rather than debating and researching it. THANK YOU AGAIN!!
Love the Video, the Qun is so fascinating! You forgot to mention the 'Aqun-Athlok' or those "born as one gender but living as another", Qunari who serve in a role that is typically not associated with their own gender.
I can see why he didn’t cover it because depending on your perspective it is either incredibly complex and doesn’t fit well within the other descriptions of the Qun or it’s just political theater thrown in for virtue signaling. Honestly it’s a bit of both.
@@grigori9061
Yeah the begendered bs doesn't make sense.
Either have the mind and body role be strictly seperated by bio sex or not.
The qunari female warriors won't be suddenly refered as he/him because the lore crew aren't that genderretardes
@@grigori9061 probably the later, remember the random Trans character in the Bulls Chargers who got offended when you tried to ask how she pulled it?
@@millerjames908 what?
Either that description means there are trans qunari or there qunari who goes against the social norms
It is sad that we don't know their full story.. I hope we will know them better one day!
Unless they patched it since I last played DA:I, I was never a fan of how tiny the female Qunari head was compared to the rest of the body. (Especially when compared to the concept art, where their head looked more proportionally correct.)
I don't think I noticed the disproportioned head, honestly I was more bothered by the lack of good hair styles for a female Qunari. I wanted to long flowing white hair like in the tarot card or at least decent hair styles. Instead what we got just sucked.
Though both male and female Qunari customization options disappointed me greatly. And instead of having a separate model for them, all Qunari have to use generic facepaints which didn't look great, I liked how helmets looked on Qunari in DA2, one of the few positives I have for that game. Would've been cool to have a mage Qunari be masked instead of hooded for example or how the Helm of the First Inquisitor might look on Qunari with horns poking out from the helmet.
When, if at all, is another video gonna be made my mans, some good shiz right here
Thank you! Hopefully in the coming months. :)
@@loreuniversity895 good to hear
_"It means a nationalist, imperialist, totalitarian, homogenous culture that obliterates the identity of every group it conquers._
_Long-term stability at all costs. The individual has no value beyond his utility to the state, whether as an instrument of war, or production."_
Man you deserve so much more viewers, great job keep it up
When I see any of these kind of horned creatures I ask myself: What kinf of pillows they are using? xD
Me too
holy hell! now I get all the hate the inquisitor gets if you choose to be a Qunari
If a Qunari mage is considered a weapon and is also highly respected, even though leashed and feared there has to be such a level of ...idk what to even call it, it's deeper than love or respect. It's kind of beautiful in a fucked up way..just me thought 🤔
Nice, the Qunari/vashoth are my favorite addition to Thedas which still is mostly mysterious
I belive itself cannon that Sten is now the Arishock. According to the comics.
I believe so as well, they should bring him back for at least as an appearance in veil guard
It be great cause remember qunari the race know that qunari born without horns are quite a rare thing
Mix communism, totalitarianism, lack of love and empathy, eugenics, fanatical militarism, no religion tolerance, complete rejection of individualism, expansionism, no morality, no problem with committing genocides, and than we have it, Qun ideology/religion. It is totally understandable why so many people in Thedas are fascinated in this great philosophical system.
I know people irl who genuinely believe the Qun is good and admirable and it never ceases to astonish me.
The Qun is only viable if you think people are too stupid to make their own decisions, especially frivolous ones. They don't maximize happiness, they maximize _health._
I trust people to make frivolous decisions. So I despise the Qun.
Take out communism and it's perfect, even based, one might say.
@@c3cxla
Based master morality enjoyer
So... Why you keep repeating the same word, again and again?
I'm trying to watch as much of this as I can before work though I might need to finish it this evening. I've been waiting for the next lecture. The videos are so in depth.
I don’t know that the Qunari gender roles are particularly based in sex. When an individual is given a role that doesn’t match their sex because they are well suited to it, they are simply considered to be the other sex, as their identities are totally tied to their role and not any sense of self bodily or otherwise. So while all individuals of a certain role are indeed men, it does not follow that all of those individuals are biologically male.
I promise they are indeed all biologically male.
@@chriscolumbia9834 That's outright untrue. If you speak to bull he explains it the same as the commenter above. A person adopting a male role is considered male regardless of biological sex and vice versa. He says this in one of his first available dialogue options.
@@chriscolumbia9834 except they literally aren’t.
@@NineTailedFate and Bill is not exactly the most believable of characters. He's a spy, and a soldier for the Qun, disinformation is his game.
@@NineTailedFate
Lol they only added it for gendie feelings
I think the Qunari are a fascinating and worrying example. The philosophy is sound and the society it has created......solid if nothing else. I can also see its appeal for many people, especially those who feel lost, who feel that having to make choices for their own life is too much responsibility, and most of all, those who have fallen through the cracks in society. Even in this comment section, you see lots of people who would gladly give up their free will for "the certainty of the Qun". The certainty that if you just do as the Qun tells you, you will have what you need, make no mistakes, and be serving the purpose that is best suited for you. That is a very tantalizing idea if you have been struggling with being unable to achieve your dreams, struggling in poverty, or even struggling to nail down what your dreams even are. If you are one of those people, please be very careful of cult rhetoric in the real world as they will often offer this same "certainty". As Solas says when he talks about the Qun, "it is just a kinder form of slavery".
i haven't played in years but isn't there a whole subplot in DA2 where humans non Qunari are converted willingly to the Qun. i swear there's a quest with some wayward son of some aristocrat that joins the Qun and Hawke has to rescue him?
@@ma1ist That is the Viscount's very own son, Seamus Dumar. Seamus's fate is one of the factors that kicks off the battle in the second act.
A kinder form of slavery for sure
Was waiting for you to upload again bro. Definitely excited to watch a Qunari video
You could not have put this out at a better time!! I just started my first time trying to play a Qunari Inquiz lol! Ill be sure to listen to this while going around the world with Iron bull.
Eventually the Qunimists are going to conquer everything with guns and battleships. They're already on their way to industrial era.
Funnily enough, if Qunari would have stopped treating magic like a disease to be contained, the whole Thedas would already be speaking Qunlat.
I'm so happy I found this channel. I love the DA games and its hard to find a good lore channel.
man i want some Qunarussy
Hello, Lore University Campus? Yes, I would just like to inform you that one of my students is horny on main. Thank you 😏
@@loreuniversity895 ho no .its the bonk polic ru *BONK*
Every quari says no you cry in a alley.
@@superiorrule34 no different then reality
@@yuvalgabay1023no the difference is you asked some who do it as a job and they still say no that worse.
I’ve been waiting for videos like this ty!
The long awaited qunari video well done love it.
Do qunari and elves in the Dragon age universe share the same origins it is hinted at especially in inquisiton?
Other than that a great video keep it up👍
OMG just about spit out my food when I saw this pop up! *does happy dance and settles in for a good listen* thank you kindly for the hard work you put into these for us! much appreciated!!
Oh Isabella. Always doing something fucked up and hilarious in hindsight
My favorite race in the game. The whole lore is just cool
Not afraid to admit one of my top 5 things im excited for about DA4 is a Qunari/Kossith Waifu. Its about time! 😤
I stand in solidarity with your brave confession. Just to be clear, I prefer DA2's design and I was sad when the player Kossith in DA:I was too "human".
@@meodrac I'm glad someone mentioned this! Yeah, DAI Kossith male and female versions were just to unnatural for me as well.
@@meodrac I thought they felt off! I couldn't place my finger on it. But now that you bring that up yea that's what it was. And it continued into the dlcs too when more Qunari show up. Like a strange form of the uncanny valley.
genuine question; why do you pronounce the R’s in some of the DA names/words like that? i noticed it whilst watching your video on elves too 🤔
It's my scanian dialect, we roll r:s :)
He's Swedish, you American pleb!
Small linguistic correction: Epitome is pronounced e-pit-o-mee, not epi-tome.
Nice. I'm playing through the Mark of the Assassin right now, good timing!
I think it is strange that the grey wardens never have gather all the nations to purge the deep roads. They knew that a lot of darkspawn exist there andyet not done it. It's like living with a knife at your throat when they do not purge the deep roads from the darkspawn.
The deep roads are dangerous, and a lot of them have collapsed.
You the type to go kicking hornet nests? Without knowing the location of the remaining Old Gods its pointless to send soldiers to die.
"Hey yall want to fight an eternal war against an enemy that outnumbers us and has no logistical needs that we have? It will be super expensive, might leave us exposed to the next blight, ect ect."
The deep roads are often perilous for larger groups because they’re hard to navigate and too many people can collapse the fragile bridges and ancient cliffs you have to traverse. Also, no matter how many you take in, there will always be more darkspawn than your current number 10 to 1. You WILL be overwhelmed. Also, the casualties would be so great that it would cripple the entire continent for generations. Like triple Ghengis Khan levels of death. The darkspawn breed down there as well as live down there. The hives are, for non-wardens, instantaneous death. Also, the blight spreads from darkspawn hurting people. So, safe to say you’d send lots of young men and women back home only for blight to spread with them. Magic black death seems like a terrible idea to me
@@PrettyPinkPersephone Fire, lots and lots of fire
I wish we could play Qunari like the thumbnail
Well it's nice to know there are no exceptions in the Qun for dragons, the quinari are nothing if not consistent.
The reason why Islam comes to mind regarding to the qun because like the Qun, most schools of jurisdictional Islam sees no separation between its dogma , the state, and the individual. All of mankind is destined to come into Islam, and the entire worldwide body of believers is known as the Ummah... which means it's not an ethnic nationhood but one of (forced) association. It's also the obligation and mission of the Ummah to expand itself.
In practice, Islam is a human institution and thus its believers run the gambit between very devout and very disinterested. The various branches of it rose up in response to historical, political local conditions and relations with the outside world. There's also profound differences between Islamic schools between how the end goal is to be achieved, how things should be run in the meantime, and of course that x% just don't care, and y% are willing to die for it.
And on the other side of the Qun is the collectivism. Brand it with whatever flavor you want Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Plato's Republic. What you have is the State dictating your role in society (based on your talents, I guess) and therefore the opposite of free enterprise and individualism.
Thus you have a very dangerous mix of extreme utopian universalist elite-controlled ideology that sees itself as the end-game for the entire planet that Thedas is a part of with no eventual possibility of co-existence once it's in a position to dominate any dissent.
Islam and christianity both share that trait. The reason why we dont see it as clearly within christianity today is due to the Enlightenment period and its secularization of the western world. There are also interpretations of islam with a more accepting view on different beliefs.
You clearly don't know what Socialism and Communism is
You're kind of othering one religion and not seeing the similarities...
Actually, the 3 Abrahamic faiths all have elements of that because they all share the same rule that "there is only one God" and idolatry is evil.
(Muslims are famous for not depicting Mohammed, but they actually don't depict anyone because it's considered idolatry...Jews don't depict God either, and used Yahweh/YWH to not pronounce a name.)
Judaism didn't force conversion, much, because they saw themselves as the chosen people, so exclusivity to a degree. (Read their history and they conquered plenty of non-believers)
Islamic empires limited forced conversion for economic reasons. Non-muslims were taxed more (Dhimi, means people of the book Christians/Jews) but polytheistic religions weren't tolerated and forced to convert.
Christians forced conversion and didn't even tolerate other Abrahamic faiths until very recently. Inquisition targeted protestants, muslims, jews, pagans, etc. Dragoons/Huguenots.
(The Klan was anti-catholic).
President Kennedy wasn't trusted for being Catholic among protestants.
The Troubles in Ireland Catholic/Protestant separation.
(I studied neurology but minored in medieval era history (Africa and Middle East) ...random, I know :p)
@@TragoudistrosMPH As someone with a degree in Religion Science, I can say you are completely correct.
Well, I cant confirm the US part concerning the KKK and Kennedys struggles, simply because that is outside my expertise. Considering the relationship between Catholicism and Protestantism, and the US tradition being highly religious, I find it highly likely tho.
These lore videos are great. Very well done. The Qunari sound a lot like the Seanchan from Wheel of Time.
After watching many of your videos I see a lot of influence from the Wheel of Time on the world of Dragon Age.
I've watched all the videos so far, and I am wondering... the word "Marches" is the same in "Exalted Marches" and "Free Marches", but you only say it correctly if you say the former, and say it like "Marshes" in any other case. Is there a reason for this I am missing?
English is not my native language, so Im gonna blame it on that.
@@loreuniversity895 I see. That makes sense. I did not mean offense, at any rate. I enjoy your videos very much, thank you for the effort you put into them.
@@devoshgaming7052 None taken, thank you very much! Appreciate the support 😁
wow, you speak just like a native@@loreuniversity895
Waiting for your next video!!
I loved their design in DA2. Kinda miss that vibe with DAI maybe with exception of their mage beasts in dlc
Thank you for covering this! I've been trying to find the story that inspired Tim Burton's film, but haven't had any luck. I was looking in the wrong place!
Watch all your videos while play Dao again will their be more videos? Also what are you thoughts on the old gods being the evanuris?
Thank you for watching, there will be more videos in the future. I don't have any thoughts on that theory because I'm not very well versed in it. Honestly I'm not that interested in speculative videos and theory-crafting. At least not when it comes to the Dragon Age lore.
42:02 is directly contradicted by Iron Bull in Inquisition when in conversation with Krem. Aqun-Athlok are those whos sex at birth do not match the role given to them, and live as the role/gender assigned by the tamasserans
A great summary. Thank you!
Quanari and the Q’un is a really good attempt to create something believable, relatable with inner consistency in a fantasy setting.
The dwarven society has its points and parts. But the Quanari is really a fresh new creation.
It is a bit fuzzy here and there… some parts as part of uncertain narrators ingame as well as lack of real insight since they mostly are at the edges of the story … some parts likely because the devs and writers are making some stuff up as they go. Understandable.
So far, in the canon in my head, it all comes together something like this:
# start/creation as a widespread genetic experiment by powerful elven mages long before the events of creation of the Veil. Or long back in history when the different races came into being - no common ancestor to expect here.
# created/bred with high level of aggressiveness and focus on strength and intelligence. Aim to be some form of “advanced” species.
# At some point they where set “free”. Either by directed effort/rebellion or they where left overs and simply needed to continue onwards by themselves.
# Most important cultural core is the creation of the Way of the Q’un. Not of any historical rebellion or other struggle… The main core is this spiritual/existential one - aimed to manage the high level as chaotic aggressiveness within them and no outside force to direct and control them.
The Q’un (in my head canon) was a crossroad event - the most core important one.
A deep and complex set of beliefs and social structures set around the simple statement of diverting the chaotic aggressive energy into a societal drive.
# The application during the centuries have shown many of similar other “humanoid” challenges regarding pride and social status and private agendas.
# There is a longbrooding inner turmoil increasing in strength within the Q’unari leadership and groupings. I fantasize about there being pure “spiritual true” (main focus to keep enabling the internal efforts without denying the outside world to leave as they themselves see fit) power factions and military inclined subgroups and personal-power-groups wanting to increase their own power for power’s sake as well as a spiritual groups with very active goals of conquering/converting the whole world as part of their spiritual belief of what the most vital part of the Q’un.
# As of the content in DA:I and the short story collection in Tevinter Nights the different power factions are being seen. And it is yet unclear what the ultimate goals are and how the internal power struggles are.
# Invidualism within the groupings are encouraged. Free intellectual thoughts increase efficiency. But only within the confines of the grouping or social role.
# Constant balancing between individualistic exploring and complying to the social norms creates friction. We see some parts of it when following different paths that Bull goes through. Some different parts through the eyes of Sten.
# Again, my personal head canon, I await more coming info about an upcoming new type of crossroads event for the Q’unari as a whole - the choice between constant never ending expansion by force
vs
Choosing a path of spiritual expansion through attracting outsiders by ways of showing and living a more harmonious and effective lives without need of violence unless for self defence.
Again. This is not a lore compilation. It’s simply my present, constantly evolving, head canon.
:-)
good vid bro, hope you continue the channel cheers
IT JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE??
Iron Bull does state that the Qun does treat transgendered (unfortunately I don’t remember the exact qunari word that Bull uses) individuals as the gender they say they are; assigning them to the appropriate roles as they see it. So Krem, while biologically female, would be seen as & treated as male; assigned a male role.
There was a retcon from what I know, so I think the video is based on Origins lore on this matter. The now cannon Qunari care more about the efficiency in a role from an individual than, in the past, bilogical limitations/benefits. Oh, and the term is Aqun-athlok.
Don't have anything against transgender people but this retcon doesn't make sense to me. For the Qun you are a body, best fitted to perform a task. The only two thing that makes sense is 1) you judge everyone based on merit and assign them their role in accord to their strong points, in which case gender doesn't matter, or 2) you divide by *sex*, since biological differences are a thing measurable to some degrees.
Dividing tasks based on gender doesn't make any sense for a philosophy that rejects individualism.
first! can't wait to put this on before bed tonight, i know it will be great!
I'm so psyched to watch after work! The Qunari are fascinating.
If Ogres come from the Kossith, and have horns, can it be deduced the the Kossith had horns, or did ogres initially have none?
The race call themselves Vashoth, “gray ones”
vashoth refers specifically to the sub group of the qunari race that was never a part of The Qun so they are descended from tal-vashoth
Still forgets to mention the Aqun-Athlok. In Qunlat, it means "one who is born as one gender but lives as another". In Dragon Age Inquisition, one member of the Iron Bull's company, a human named Krem, is Aqun-Athlok.
I dunno how to feel about that. For a society where individuality is seen with contempt and everyone is required to fill the rolls they are literally bred for that sounds way to inclusive. Gender rolls are so ingrained in Qunari society that the concept of a woman being a warrior is impossible to them and anyone that doesn't bend the knee to the Will of the Qun is either reeducated, executed, or lobotomized.
But they accept LGBTQ+ concepts? That doesn't make sense to me.
@@Scream_Lord Seems simple enough to me. Qunari do not believe your body is you; so gender and sex will not correlate. This doesn't make the Qun any less oppressive, just that the culture is slightly better at comprehending 'trans' identities than Thedosian cultures do.
Honestly, it is the least interesting thing about the Qunari.
@@Scream_LordIt doesn't make sense inside their society. A woman who want to live as a man is not going to be permitted to do so. I think is a word used to describe transgender people outside of the Qun.
I don't remember if the transgender inside the Bull's company is actually part of the Qunari but I don't think so. If they were it would make zero sense.
@@cristianturbian2513 the trans person isn't part of the Qunsri but it's Iron Bull that describes him that way. He explains most of it, it has to do with that "assigned at 12" thing that's talked about. if they train you to be a warrior but you suck at it, you get put in the administration and since they're all women you are a woman now. I will say the fact is we haven't gotten any real looks in on the Qun working in its own environment, so we don't really know a whole lot about the day to day of Qunari childhood. Also I think the Qunari system would still miss people who realize later in life, but it is mentioned that the priesthood provides counseling so I could see it being a part of that.. Also not for nothing, I know this argument may fall of deaf ears, but in IRL cultures that have valued societal cohesion historically, usually Eastern cultures, transness isn't that weird, at least when compared to gayness. But also this sorta gets back to the broader East Vs West division which the original designers certainly pulled from when creating the Qunari. Culturally the Qunari are so foreign to Thedas it's possible the concepts of gender don't map 1-1 into the Qunari language and "Man" and Woman" are just the closest translations in the common tongue. Tldr, the Qunari are weird, gender is weird, Qunari probably have weird ideas about gender that don't map on to our own ideas even down to a language level.
The Qunari are probably my favorite race in Dragon Age
The philosophy of the Qun is quite fascinating plus I like their looks
It is as fascinaing as it is devastatingly horrific.
Personally, the Qun sounds like a worthy path to follow. I would gladly join.
What do the numbers separated by a colon mean?
Those are the calendar dates of the Dragon Age universe. The first number is the age in question and the number after the colon is which year during the age the date is, from 1 to 99. If you want to know more I made a video on the topic: m.th-cam.com/video/XrP4335-LJA/w-d-xo.html
Its good to hear lore of my favorite race they remind me of draconic orcs 🧝♂️+🐲=👹
Interesting. I found a great deal about the philosophy / religion to be interesting and even attractive but what it turned into in terms of a society is pretty scary. A philosophy / religion of self respect and enlightenment has been turned into an ideological justification of tyranny, oppression and brutality. I just wonder just how did it turn into that? I find it hard to believe that it started out that way.
I do find it interesting that each one of the societies in this world have very serious ideological and social problems. I just wonder if this world is approaching some sort of smashup. Some sort of ideological showdown in which the various practices and oppressions of each one the main societies of this world lead to the various societies experiencing an existential crisis.
Lve Dragon Age, thanks for these 😎🤘🍻
Major correction: the Qun is atheistic because there are no gods. Atheism is simply not having a belief that gods exist. There are numerous atheistic religions.
Minor correction: the third person non-gendered possesive is spelled "its." There is no apostrophe. "It's" is a conjunction of "it is." Think "your" (second person possesive) versus "you're" (conjunction of second person pronoun and second person form of the verb "to be.") In regards to the opening disclaimer.
Thank you for pointing out the grammatical thing, I will keep it in mind. As for the Qun being atheistic, the former lead writer for the series David Gaider said it is, so Im basing it on that. twitter.com/davidgaider/status/222482726664667136
@@loreuniversity895 thank you for responding.
You're defining agnosticism. That's different than atheism. Atheist is having no religion or god. Buddhism is an agnostic religion, where they don't worship any God (they aspire to be more like Buddha and revere him, but don't worship him), but they are open to philosophical debate about religion and God's. For example
@@reganmcnary9864 no. I am defining atheism. Agnosticism is not making claims of knowledge.
Correction atheism is having no religion and no explanation for the world existing and simply believing that the purpose of life is to simply exist while the qun is more akin to Buddhism as the follow strict religious beliefs while not really worshipping any gods just like Buddhism its an idea that one should live there life a certain way to reach enlightenment just like the Buddhism equivalent of reaching nirvana the only difference Is that Buddhism does believe God's exist they do not worship them and only try to appease them when the situation is believed to acquire it but they do not actively worship any God and simply live their life a certain way to achieve nirvana or total enlightenment just like the followers of the qun
It would have been interesting if the recovery of the tome of koslun had led to some reformation of Qunari society back towards Ashkaari Koslun's ideals
Big missed opportunity for Inquisition
40:12 my time stamp
I have been waiting at baited breath for this video oh my goddddd