Mushoku Tensei - The SHOCKING Deleted Chapter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2021
- #MushokuTensei #JoblessReincarnation #anime
Mushoku Tensei (Jobless Reincarnation) is one of the best isekai anime and light novel series, but has been no stranger to controversy. While many anime only Mushoku Tensei fans may be familiar with controversy around main character Rudeus Greyrat and his father Paul Greyrat as characters, what a lot of fans don't know is there was once a chapter of Mushoku Tensei so controversial the author had to delete it. In this video I talk about what happens in the shocking deleted Mushoku Tensei Redundancy Aisha Chapter, as well as why author Rifujin na Magonote deleted the chapter, and what he has said in interviews about it. Is the relationship between Aisha and Ars in the deleted Redundancy chapter still canon? Will Magonote rewrite the deleted Aisha chapter?
You can buy the Mushoku Tensei Light Novels on Amazon in physical or digital formats - this is an affiliate link so I make a small commission if you shop for them using this link to volume 1 of the series - amzn.to/3m0WjuL
And here's a link to get the Roxy Gets Serious spin-off manga: amzn.to/3IFZ7ap - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
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Spoilers of the Deleted Chapters, you've been Warned!
I didn't think I could feel the way I did when I read those chapters.
My hands were sweating and I was trembling while reading it. Props to the author for making me feel this way, I don't think I'll ever feel like that reading other stories.
those deleted chapters are disturbing sure but the way he delivers it, and how he unfolds this arc is GOLD.
It's definitly one of the best arcs of MT imo.
the best moment of the arc was when Roxy crushed Ars' image of the Invisible Rudeus by telling him the truth.
these lines in particular:
"You're saying that you're willing to give up your life to protect Aisha?"
"Yeah... That's right!"
"Challenge an opponent you have no hope of defeating, then die. Did you ever consider the feelings of Aisha you left behind?"
".... But what can I do?"
"Rudeus would have begged."
I thought Eris was the one who said that...
@@Justsomerandomweeb121 nah, Eris speaks through action. I love how she admonished her son repeatedly. Roxy only worded out a portion of what Eris meant in her actions.
Eris must've also been, second to Lilia, the most hurt by the news of their relationship & elopement; third in greatest shock.
Afterall, Eris' life motto is in strength to protect who you love. Her own son failed in that completely and committed the ultimate sin (to her) of hiding behind his lovers back; letting her take the punishment. That sort of weakness is unforgivable.
As Neia from Overlord would declare, "weakness is a sin!"
Ars only learned half of that lesson by the time they were found. Eris tested him then Roxy schooled him on why he failed.
As for Sylphy, she played her part in regards to Aisha. She could see right through her act.
Man, I love that arc!
@@userk2comment oh ok... I have re-read this part just now and yeah... Eris is the one who beat him up ( I thought it was Rudeus) and Roxy was the one who said that...
And Sylphy really saw through Aisha when she was making excuses like "teaching the kid s*x education".
The bit where Sylphy was like 'oh, so you'll teach Sieg and Clive, too then?' - Sylphy catching Aisha in 4k there.
@@NatalieXHunter yeah that part got me like "is she really gonna do it as an excuse?!?" but when Sylphy asked her if she loves Ars it got me thinking that Sylphy really has good intuitions...
I was expecting MUCH worse, this makes complete sense with the story, people will find drama everywhere, i just find a pity that fans asked for censoring
The site too lol
It's what I've come to expect from the setting, complete with it not being with the intention of gratification. Not my bag, but demanding it be changed definitely feels uncalled for. As for the site itself, I can't really blame them unless they didn't really cover that subject matter in their terms of service.
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Aisha's brother complex really took a toll, since Arse really look like Rudy when he first saw him...the version whom she first fall in love with
I think that this story is perhaps when you do subvert the brocon trope. In real life if you have such strong feelings for a sibling even half sibling, that can carry over in other parts of life and with other family members like this. This is a likely scenario rather than it simply becoming resolved and done
This chapter has always given me the distinct feeling that Aisha never really got the resolution she deserves, like she didn't get anything as significant as what Norn got and it kinda made me feel bad for her.
idk, I think Aisha's ending was way more impactful on the family and showed way more growth in her as a character than Norn's - I think Norn's was obviously a happier story and that's what most of the marriage stories in Redundancy are like, but Aisha's was way more interesting, and did end up happy in the end, so I think she was given a good closure to her story. Well, apart from it being deleted.
I agree, i find Aisha's resolution really interesting and matching for the story
I think that Ars being 11 is the biggest thing people take issue with this story. If he was even just a few years older (14 or so) people would be more forgiving of it.
I actually don't care that much about ars circumstances, MT world have very different moral values than us so I don't mind. What fucked me up is actually Rudeus confessions about what he did in previous world before he died.
Idk about other but for my case yes i have a problem with ars being dad at the age of 11.
MT world have very different moral values than us. When you think about it, none other than Rudy and Lilia seen a problem that big.
Later we see Rudeus realize this fact as well.
@@vogel2499 what did he do?
@@martonszucs8887 In his previous life He took pictures of his underage nephew while they were taking a bath without consent
(He hide a camera just to do it, also he confesses that reasoning of it was because he wanted to sell them and make money)
While I think that the overall Ars and Aisha thing is messed up, the chapter does have some golden moments. How Rudeus came to terms with his degenerate self and how Eris disciplined Ars towards the end was amazing. "Rudeus would have begged" was the best line of the chapter, because it showed that Rudeus isn't above begging if it means his family would be safe.
A detail that should be added to the relationship of those two is that Aisha was there since the moment he was born. She helped change his diapers, feed him, teach him how to talk, and lived in the same house all of his life. She might be his aunt, but for all intents and purposes, she's his fourth mother. We are not talking about an aunt that lives across town and only gets to see them on the weekends, no she spends more time with the children than Rudeus does.
She basically took the first born male and as the primary educator groomed him to fit her urges. No matter what, it is a messed up situation. It's not right psychologically, ethnically, or morally. But it's also not the worst of things and it could've been much worse.
Thats a very good point. Im suprised no one has responded to this. I have not read any of the meterial, just going off the info of this channel and the anime. Is urges the right word to use? Seems like it was less of an urge and more confusion with priorites. U know.... handed down from her mom. Like i said, i havnt read, but it seems like aishas character would help everyone in the family the same way. So i dunno if she programmed him? Or was like 1 day, i need to marry someone and arn would be the best! I also dont know if in that world, incest is looked down upon. So i dunno if its more of the age gap thing, or the bloodline thing. Like why was rudeus the most against it? Was he upset about those reasons comebined vs, the rest only thinking about the age gap? All this is very controversial and entertaining.
Exactly.
I wouldn't consider all of it to be grooming. She she tried to educate him as any other child until he confessed his feelings, and even then she wasn't as scummy as Rudeus intended to be with Silphy. Besides, grooming as a crime does not exist in that world. It's fucked up, but it's a really nuanced relationship.
@@Onelastrun Rudy was so against it beacuse of the things hed done in his previous life,he took pictures of his bathing niece because he wanted to sell them to make money
@@alejocabrera7419 Nuanced relationship? Incest between aunt and nephew is taboo even in the medieval times this story tries to base itself on. I don’t know any mainstream culture where such a thing is acceptable.
Paul cheating is one thing. But an older aunt who’s basically a mother indulging a nephews animalistic urges…. Is well past the line.
But hey, “if it causes character conflict it MUST be good writing!”
I actually expected worse. I was thinking Rudeus screwd up a fourth time and it was with Aisha. Truthfully it's Lillias fault and her insecurities. Still though the writer is good.
Paul's as well for letting his guilt about what he did to Lillia during their youth and what he did with Lillia to Zenith guide his decision to let Lillia have her way and raise his own daughter as a servant.
Rudeus for knowing Aisha's upbringing wasn't normal and not cracking down on both her and Lillia for their views on their place in the family.
But at the end of the day they are all human and their shortcomings and hang-ups eventually catch up to them.
his futer alternet self thankfuly helped him dodge that bullet
i think that happens in future Rudy timeline
@@GekoHayatethe opposite regarding Rudy, by the time he was sent to Eris house, Aisha was still a baby, by the time they found each other in Shirone, was the first time they truly interact as more conscious people and then at the school arc it's when they do so for long periods of time and he notices how Lilia treated Aisha and tried to mend her ways, a lot of times Rudy tries to mediate between mother and daughter as well as letting Aisha develop by herself by giving her responsibilities and choose what she wants, so it's more a projection of Lilia and Paul that messed Aisha up along with her stay at Milishion
I can see why he wrote the story the way he did. lilia’s trauma at being the second wife of a noble family and ensuing inferiority complex which she projected unto Aisha makes a lot of sense. I don’t consider it lewd per say, but it’s basically an admonition of how parents can project their expectations on their kids and mess them up with those said expectations.
One thing I still don't understand is how people get so offended by stories.. I mean unless they're clearly propaganda pieces..
Is this situation messed up? Yes. Is it something that could and probably even did happen many times in real life? Yes. Does the series make a clear statement of yes this is a good thing and everyone needs to think it is?... NO. So why get so pissed about it. Great stories aren't written by making everyone behave like a perfect example of modern moral standards.. and stories that force their characters and things to happen to get certain results usually just feel forced and not that great. A great story is written by it's characters and the world it is set in. Wether this leads to conflict, questionable moral behavior or even tragedy doesn't matter. It's a story. Not you moral guide book. Humans aren't perfect. Complaining about people within a story acting flawed is kind of... stupid if you ask me.
Couldn't have said it better myself mate. It feels like some people just want stories to be all about sending some moral message which isn't always bad but not all stories should be that way. IMO the only thing that's important for a story is if it's engaging, as long as it's doing that I don't care if the characters are morally flawed. I mean take death note for example the MC is literally a mass murderer a lot worse then Rudeus and yet nobody says the show is bad because Light is a bad person if anything people say it's better because Light is morally flawed and it makes the story more interesting. That's basically how I feel people should treat Jobless Reincarnation
I mean you just described a reason why people get offended at stories. It only takes a single person’s opinion to believe a story is not just a story, but also propaganda. I bet you people exist who believe Mushoku Tensei is Polygamy Propaganda which promotes the idea of men cheating on their wives. What would you say to those people? That its just a story? And if you see a story that looks like blatant propaganda to you, what if they tell you “Its just a story bro”. It is just a matter of the viewer’s interpretation at the end of the day.
@@davos4667 I get what your saying but I guess you also need a certain level of common sense when watching/reading a story if you know what I mean. Usually propaganda focuses a lot more on sending one particular message i.e political ideology or some religious belief. Tbh tho at the end of the day the only thing I want is for people to be allowed to freely express themselves and tell whatever story they wish propaganda or not. The last thing I want is for people to start censoring everything.
What there looking for is the average Isekai series, not a masterpiece like Mushoku Tensei.
One thing I loved about Law and order is that some of those stories certainly made us question our current moral standards of what's wrong and what's right?
"a situation [...] that most of the characters in the story find highly objectionable" Mostly Rudeus, Lilia, Lucy and Norn were against it as a concept, the other characters where ok with it. I mean, look at the Greyrat family tree, by the end of redundancy it looks like the logo for the Olympic games.
Despite how Rudeus "feels", I think he handled the situation of Lilia and Aisha very poorly. He was fine with his sister and stepmother being maids for his household. Despite always rejecting Aisha's advancements he never talked to her honestly about this subject, he never took her serious, he never sat her down and explained to her why a relationship like this is bad. How did Aisha feel being rejected by Rudeus every time? she didn't know that the reason for his rejection was not a failing on her part, but because Rudeus is incapable of humoring such a relationship. Lilia actually prepared her own daughter to be a concubine for him.
This situation stewed for two decades... and while I find the chapter one of the most disgusting things I've ever read, it's at the same time one of the most brilliant from a drama point of view.
I also love the irony. It's like the sins of the parents come back as a sort of karmic payment. Eris isn't as guilty as Paul, Lilia and Rudeus, but all those years ago when she lost her family she used Rudeus to comfort herself. While he had the mind of an adult, Eris wasn't aware of that at the time. She was of age and he was not.
We know Rudy's sin because he told us. I also find it telling that we see that sin during episode 2 of the anime in the flash back. Rudeus is also guilty of the sin of sloth for not talking to Aisha sooner about the birds and the bees (his perspective of it, not Lilia's). After Paul passed away, Rudeus was that girl's father figure and he failed her (in my opinion).
Lilia and Paul betrayed Zenith and almost ruined a family, the parallel with what their daughter did is clear. Now I admit I'm being a bit selective here, since this affair was forgiven by Zenith, but I wanted to point it out anyway. The real sin is how they raised Aisha. While Lilia did most of the damage, Paul was content to play no part in Aisha's education because Lilia insisted on her method.
I'm disappointed that you didn't mention the tittle of the chapter "The day Aisha stopped being a maid", because it really highlights that this is about her.
People say that this story ruins Aisha's character. No, this was always Aisha. Her biggest strength is that she is a genius and her biggest flaw is that she is a genius. Aisha at her core is a spoiled child, let me explain! Everything she wanted she got, there was never a time in her life where she accepted loss (this is why Norn's marriage pushed her over the edge).
Let's get into details here. She dominated her sister growing up, despite Lilia's insistence that she should bow her head to Norn, Aisha never truthfully did. She would offer insincere apologies, she knew how to push her mother to the limit and back down before Lilia would slap her. She wanted to be Rudeus' maid while he wanted her to go to school, Aisha still had her way in the end. She was fed up with Rinia as a maid and convinced Rudeus to find something else for her to do.
So what? You might ask. This was all harmless stuff just some sibling rivalry and her wanting to be a maid. The problem is that she always got what she wanted thus she never learned to accept that there are things she cannot have.
So what happened when she wanted Ars? Aisha's first strategy was simple no one has to know. Then they got careless and where found out. Second came lies and manipulation "Oh it's just training, it's nothing serious". Sylphy saw through the lie and Eris helped exposed it. Then Aisha admitted her love and begged, while it is true it is still emotional manipulation. This worked on everyone except Rudeus. He then wanted to separate her from Ars. Her next attack used logic "Rudeus, give me a reason for use to be separated and I will accept it", this didn't work because of his own guilt so Rudeus wouldn't budge.
Fight had failed, flight was next. Aisha and Ars ran away, and kept running until she became pregnant. All paths closed to her, all options used up, Aisha accepted her loss and waited for Rudeus to come kill her. Which he didn't.... obviously.... but the point is that Aisha grew up from a spoiled child to a mother willing to sacrifice herself. This story didn't destroy her development, it completed it.
In a way, Aisha is the same as Griffith from berserk. Griffith's loss of Guts (Aisha's loss to Norn) caused him to have a lapse in judgement. He was caught bedding Charlotte, so the king had him tortured and maimed. Griffith could no longer attain his dream. The difference between Aisha and Griffith is that she accepted her loss in the end, while he didn't. Instead of living a quiet life with Casca, Griffith chose to sacrifice his friends so that he could attain his dream.
Imagine how frightening a ruthless Aisha would have been, far worse than Geese, that's for sure.
Hear, hear! (an old version of "This^")
Thank you for this insight.
This. Thank you so much for this.
@Wakame Channel Oh, don't worry. I think the author keeps up this theme of the children repeating the parents' mistakes.
So I'm 90% sure Lara will be the one to cash in that karmic check.
She will probably meet Akihito when she is well passed 40 and him a high schooler, and if he was Nanahoshi's boyfriend (or even ex-boyfriend) then that will check all the boxes of what Roxy did.
@Wakame Channel Please for the love of god tell me you're trolling, because seriously? "Grooming him via letters"????
Do you seriously not see how stupid that argument is in and of itself? Nevermind the actual fact not once has she actually tried any sort of grooming in any way concievable possible if you even bothered to read the light novel
Man, you people seriously love to use that word for everything huh
Honestly, this shouldn't have been deleted. It's a good arc. This just goes to show us that the perfect Aisha we thought she was can be flawed too. This is the world of Mushoku. Full of reality, flaws and raw emotions.
Honestly, I have always looked at that infamous deleted chapter as the embodiment and actual culmination of the story. Because if you really stop to think about it, this chapter pretty much encapsulates the fact that Mushuko Tensei isn't just your typical "power fantasy isekai." After all, Mushuko Tensei from the very beginning centers on the redemption story of its protagonist, as well as the family drama that will shape him for who he will become. More than that, this chapter also showcases not only Aisha's growth but also how much Rudeus have grown as a human being as well. And well, it also pretty much told the viewers that even though the series had already ended, Rudeus's life still continues so it shouldn't be surprising that he will be facing some problems along the way.
Personally, I really think that this chapter is the best one among the redundancy chapters because of the powerful dialogues in it. To be honest, I couldn't help but cry all throughout that final confrontation because I felt as if I was personally watching there as all of it unfolds.
More upset about the grooming than him being her half-nephew/second cousin-once-removed. Half-nephews have about the same amount of genetic risk as a first cousin or a human over 40 having kids so 1% risk of birth defects a 100% increase from the 0.5% risk of having kids with an entirely unrelated person. The fact Ars is pre-pubescent and under the Age of Majority for that world is the main issue. If he was a few years older and going through puberty I would better understand Aisha deluding her self that it was real love with her issues. The obvious power imbalance of her being one of the people who raised him wouldn't really change though.
I'm slightly surprised that MT readers would be bothered that much just based on what you've described. I'm also looking forward to seeing what it's revision looks like, in a way I sort of hope the author doesn't shy away from controversial aspects of it. I'm more interested in the story he wants to tell than what other people want to read.
I agree. Let the man write the story he wants to write.
I agree too. The controversy is kinda part of the story’s charm, in a twisted way. The willingness to go against the grain to tell such a story is somewhat admirable. Besides, I’ve seen worse.
It really did come out of nowhere, I was reading them as they were coming out and the story really was strange in its execution, not necessarily on concept, I liked it, but I definitely understand why a lot of people had that reaction, the execution could've definitely been better.
@@pizzapicante27 ig he's taking his time to execute it better. I can't wait to read his final draft of it
Me who went through this with Yosuga no Sora canon end PTSD:
The actions & motives of the characters are reasonable, the controversial relationship is also lukewarm compared to what I saw in YnS. AuntXNephew eh? Not the worst kind of incest.
I read the Aisha chapter a year ago, way, way after finishing the main story and all of the side content. By the time i finally decided to read it, i had already read the main story 3 times and was very well aware that it was by far the most controversial chapter.
I was expecting something gross, i was expecting terrible writing, i was expecting the story to delve into shocking events just for the shock value. And what i got was peak Mushoku tensei : heavy familly drama in a fantasy world. Yes it was extremely spicy, and for someone not expecting the spice, i can see how it can be off-putting. But for me, i absolutely adored how conflicting the drama really was. Exploring how characters, parents, siblings or friends deal with such an immoral situation in front of them was frankly fascinating. The heart to heart between Aisha and Rudeus, as well as Ars facing his mothers, are moments that are now part of my favorite moments in Mushoku tensei. If there's one critiscism i have on the chapter, is that there isn't enough build up or signs of their relationship before the cat is out of the bag and we get to the absolute worst scenario possible. It goes from 0 to a 100 in a span of a few pages, if you're not ready for the spice, this is too much.
I think that was also the major take away the author mentioned about the problems with it, other than tthe disruption it had in Redundancy as a whole. No proper built up; it was sudden and abrupt. There was a little bit of foreshadowing but not enough.
Yeah, I think that was a bit unavoidable because Ars wasn't old enough to really get much characterization in the main story. The only real foreshadowing for him was in the earlier Redundancy chapter where Aisha saves him, Lara and Sieg from kidnappers, which was just enough to make this seem not entirely out of the blue, as we'd at least seen them interact. But still, while it made sense for Aisha, since we never really saw much of Ars before it did feel a bit out of nowhere.
Well said. THIS is exactly why it shouldnt have been deleted. "Heavy family drama in a fantasy world" and the parents trying to overcome this event. It feels real and deals with complex human emotions. Though controversial, it is a nice story in my opinion. Full of lessons and realizations for sure.
Where can I watch Aisha chapter? And is there's any other manga that related to mushoku tensei I should read ?
MT always been about MC personal growth and family relationships, I think all stems from author own experience, I often "criticize" the disgusting stuff, but it is me just using current and personal view on morals/ethics, I never advocate censorship and while I feel totally disgusted with what I read sometimes, that's the freaking point, its a novel, its literary art and its supposed to make us feel something, even if its disgust, MT is the first Web novel I read after watching the anime and have 0 regrets.
If the genders of Aisha and Ars were switched, I think many more of you will be disturbed...and while the issue resolved itself in the end, Aisha still did a reverse Hikaru Genji and condtioned Ars (mentally and emotionally) to be her groom from his early age until the porking incident..and Ars at that age still doesn't know the difference between admiration, love, and most importantly lust ( as you know Ars 11y/o is a boy around the age where he's curious about the birds and the bees), which is then exploited by Aisha..and finally when Aisha decided to pork Ars did she even think of what will happen to Ars as an individual person, his future, what his own family will think of him? Nope, she just gave in to her impulse because she felt that she lost to her sister as a woman.. despite her partner being an immature teen kid who is also acting on his impulse, she still proceeded knowing that she can just manipulate Ars as a result of her mental conditioning....
Yeah imagine a butler Aisha but still even the age gap is to be resolved - I still cant fully support an Aisha x Ars. Its just too close for comfort especially with a world that is very much open to both of these characters. Their relationship does not even have a purpose or a benefit that can be used to justify it. Them being in love with each other once is okay for me - it was necessary for Aisha to grow out of the indoctrinated grooming she received under Lilia and for Ars to grow from his pervy Rudi side. They could maybe elope but it should be that they eventually break up and find more fulfilling relationships elsewhere.
Mistakes happen but that chapter having Aisha be pregnant just forced them into a situation where cooler heads would have been able to escape from. They are all in agreement that such a relationship is wrong and so its better if they all grow up in spite of it. Especially Lilia has to be made aware of just how messed up of a parent she sometimes can be. Ars can also learn to be humble at this point since being the beloved firstborn son of Rudi can come with it some degree of pride.
This is exactly the kind of complex (yet messed up) character dynamics that makes this series so good. It's so warped, but beautiful moments come from it. Moments of growth. Moments of reconciliation.
Still incest is gross
“I’m not a critic or defender. I’ll put it in a form that satisfies me the most first.”
I think this, in general, is a good stance for any creator to take. Even if it’s thematically objectionable or distasteful; that’s just the nature of art.
I really felt sad for Aisha's character because her character is well built in main story after reading this chapter all the respect for her goes to dump, there was more possible option for her character to end & during reading this chapter it felt like reading some hentai plot,also ars consider her to his fourth mother
I feel like she’s desperate for rudy’s love, she literally raised to be rudy’s mistress , in her mind theres no one worthy of her other than rudeus, i blame it all to lilia and paul for sure , she got that idea because norn now has ruijerd and she is desperately trying to find that love that she wants
@@jshbld6582 Sir if your going to believe some nonsense ships then stop talking about it because Norn isn't desperate for Ruijerd love She was impressed by him and btw Ruijerd maybe immortal but Norn wouldn't like to have a sugar daddy neither Ruijerd neither Aisha is desperate for Rudeus love she is his sister
@@agent92o38 fucking please. Norn has ruijerd , that made aisha’s competitiveness over her overwhelmed as she’s desperate to win over norn on everything, aisha is desperate for rudy’s love , her mindset is that no one is worthy of her other than her beloved older brother rudeus, norn is not desperate for ruijerd and i never said that, rudy doesnt give that love that aisha wants, and the closest “rudeus” in her sight would be rudy’s own son Ars
@@agent92o38 read again if i said that norn is desperate for ruijerd , aisha’s desperate for rudy 100% no doubt, now that norn is getting married to ruijerd aisha is desperate to win as she wins in everything over norn , please read the web novel again if your missing, please stop with the worldy beliefs like your the pope himself, doesnt matter as if ruijerd is 500000 years old , norn has a mind of a grown person, like how itachi at age of somewhere 8 is thinking like a hokage
This is just sad that a chapter of a successful series to be Thanos snapped out of existence, but I enjoy anything that is controversial no matter how minute
Considering Mushoku Tensei is supposed to be written like a historical/folkloric epic, the controversial aspect is pretty much a must have, since most psychological dynamics drawn from these old stories have the fucked up stuff at the core of most of them.
@@SilverYPheonix You draw some good points there
I strongly agree.
@@SilverYPheonix Very true
I mean also according to Natalie’s video, the author wasn’t happy with how it was written too and it went against the WN sites term of service
I don’t understand how any “fans” could be offended..
MT characters are all deeply flawed characters that are completely human so these extremes seem par for the course.
Things like this happen irl as well.
The offense seems very bizarre
Apart from roxy
@@kahyogama8639 roxy is perfect
it's like any story with controversy, because the author apologized and took it down, that's why it became an even bigger controversy.
It does not matter if author's intent was to rewrite a better version or w/e, the facts of "it was taken down" and "someone was offended" remained, and those who like to scream on the Internet will manufacture any kind of outrage stories to make sure they keep getting attentions.
If that chapter was kept and called a "what if" story, people will actually lose interest regarding its content and move on to something else since their "feedbacks" are powerless. Basically the same way while handling toxic or SJW comments; they don't actually care, they only want biased recognition to feel better about themselves.
People gets easily offended now a days ...many would just get offended by this 😂
now i can't aisha see same way i saw before. I think i hate her now
I didn't read the chapter because I got into MT as the anime aired. However, when I learned of its existence I didn't like the idea simply because I thought/hoped Aisha was better than that. She always had a bit of a Brocon attitude from the beginning, probably due to how Lillia raised her in the first place. So I was always glad to see her become more and more independent and doing her own thing as the story progressed.
Oddly enough, Rudeus himself pointed out that he didn't feel attracted to her, probably because he did see her as family (whereas he struggled to feel Paul and Zenith as his parents). So, their dynamic was that as they saw each other more as flesh and blood family, they wouldn't feel attracted to each other. Aisha didn't seem that way at first because she didn't THINK herself as part of the family. So her eventually having a romance with Ars feels like Aisha not considering herself part of the family all over again to me. And I don't like that; feels like regression.
I see where you are coming from. However, imo, Aisha was never attracted to Rudy in the conventional romantic fashion. She had always hold intense feelings for Rudy ever since their first reunion -- as a family, an idol, and probably most importantly, a peer. Peer not in the sense of status, but rather in intelligence. You see, Aisha grew up lonely. Her upbringing coupled with the fact that she was born different from people around her only worsen that. As a result, she never had the chance to develop romantic feels for anyone, or even given that a thought, since everybody was just so different from herself. Hence, those feelings she held for Rudy, whatever they actually were, were romantic to her. She was told by her own mother that those were, and she had no other point of reference. Rudy, in many ways, had always been the only choice for her. Over the years, when she observed that Rudy clearly had no intentions of reciprocating these feelings in the way she wanted him to, she had seemingly given up, resulting in the facade of "growth" that we observe as reader imo. But she really only bottled these feelings up and they exploded when she saw her sister married.
In the novel, it was mentioned multiple times, from Aisha's perspective too, that Ares bears a striking semblance to Rudy. It was very likely that Aisha projected her unrequited feelings for Rudy towards Ares, which resulted in the events in the redundancy chapters. What she felt for Ares was likely not romantic either, but more of family love, but again, the twisted part is that she probably only had family love for Rudy as well, but she *thought* it was romantic, so it was likely she also thought the same feelings for Ares as the same. However, I think one part Rifujin likely wasn't happy about was the fact that the feeling Aisha had for Ares initially and the feelings she had for him after she came back from school was different, and that wasn't made clear. Part of Aisha's loneliness is her self image of a genius who never makes mistakes, a person that is at core inhuman, and therefore, different. However, through the events, she messed up big times, and realized that she was also human as well. It was not until that point did she start treating people around her as real humans. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise anyone if Ares grows up and realized his childish fantasies for her Aunt wasn't real love, and the two drifts apart. However, he didn't thanks to a strong sense of responsibility and protective instinct drilled into him likely by Eris (and Aisha's oppais, probably). Aisha, on the other hand, matured and likely re-inspected her nephew and father of her child, whose brave actions and devotion of protecting her could actually kindle real romantic feelings, now that she had opened up to others. But this is only my inspections since Rifujin didn't make that clear. But that should be the case otherwise their feelings would just remain twisted or they simply start living together out of a sense of responsiblity, either case would be a poor conclusion to the story.
We need this storyline to happen, just for the videos and reactions on twitter.
People call Paul scum after he cheated on Zenith.. I never hear anyone say the same about Lilia even though she has just as much part in it.
I liked Paul from the beginning and still do. What he did to Zenith was horrible.. the way he treated Rudy when they met after the disaster was messed up.. but these were mistakes. He is a good guy at heart and tries. And he ateast can admit his mistakes.
Lilia on the other hand I really did not like. I'm only at volume 13 now, so maybe I'll change my mind.. but to me what she did to Aisha is unforgivable. I know it's different times, morals and what not, but doing this to your child to me is unforgivable. You don't own them ffs. It's more amplified by Paul actually being a great father. He made mistakes.. sure.. but the way he raised Rudy and Norn was great and he has my respect for it.
Maybe I'll change my mind on Lilia latter on.. but I really can't stand her.
I'll like to agree with you but if you really think about it. Lilia just a permanent maid and think like one. Sadly she was getting lonely seeing a happy family in front of her all the time and she a woman so that must hurt in a deep level. Rudeus saving her life from going worse she though the only way to repay him is by giving him Aisha. I don't remember clearly but I'm pretty sure the way Lilia brought up Aisha was mainly due to Rudeus not refusing Lilia pledge.
@@BlazeGamerZX I do understand where she is coming from and I do feel sorry for her.. but unlike Paul who made stupid mistakes which are just as understandable, but I pointed out this out because people are easily willing to side with Lilia and forgive her for seducing a married man, but are not willing to forgive Paul for being seduced. Both made a mistake. What disgusts me about Lilia is how she treats her daughter as property. I don´t care why you do it and what your circumstances are, doing this to your child to me is just disgusting. Paul on the other hand while making mistakes, in the end cared for his family and children.. I don´t even feel like Lilia cares for Aisha..
@@janina3879 I don't know the full story. But I do know one thing. Rudeus just as responsible as Lilia in my eyes.
@@BlazeGamerZX how is rudeus is faulty in the cheating of his father and maid?lol
@@alihorda Never said he was?
The whole Aunt age difference thing in Harems probably goes back to an original Harem Tenchi Muyo. One of the love interests, Masaki, is Tenchi's biological aunt. Of course she's Alien princess and her Royal Family always does that Ancient Egyptian incest Royal marriage thing. But that was absurd comedy, one of the other Harem candidates is a rabbit who turns into a spaceship.
The more grounded you go in a real life character from Japan, the more messed up it is. You'll never see a season 2 Anime of Usagi Drop, which is a lovely story about a salary man taking care and raising his grandfather's illegitimate kindergarten age daughter. Final chapter guess what happens and the anime is like nope, nope not adapting this ending.
What happens in the original ending?
@@Gamerboi-im3rk Rin falls in love with Daikachi and after she graduates highschool she wants to have a baby with him. So Daikachi fathers his first cousin, son and grandchild all in one Alabama package.
May I remind you episode 3 of the Anime focused on how Daikachi handles her bedwetting issue.
in the past royals married their brothers, aunts, cousin and it wasnt consider bad. in this story only rudy has he knowledge of modern days so all the other characters are from that erra. it is messed up to us but i think its part of the world, since rudy married his second cousin, he had more than on wife and also married roxy who is about 40 years older. its a fantasy era where we know only what the writer wants us to know and its not the same as our time.
also in medieval era, people lives are shorter, people are getting married as long as they can tend their own farm/ hunt themselves, that can mean, teens in 13s to 15s. the more people are prone to death the lower the average marriage age will be.
It was taboo for 99% of the medieval civilizations, it was not the norm, not even close
Yeah it definitely wasn't a chill chapter. But it does make sense to be written like that in regards with the story, so I really don't see how he could change that, it would really be difficult to do that while having the audience satisfied.
Yeah, that's pretty much the conclusion I reached about it in the end. I can see why it has been one he hasn't wanted to tackle rewriting for years, given if you change the controversial aspect, it is no longer controversial in world either, so doesn't do what he wants to do in terms of Aisha and the family.
@@NatalieXHunter is he planning to rewrite the chapter? or we just gonna have no idea about ars and ashias future?
I remember the time I was reading this chapter. Oh boy! I was sweating, my heart was beating so fast. I was shocked, disgusted but I still liked the story mostly because of how it was written and how the family responded to it. Even now hearing someone talking about it reminds me of all those emotions. Never before I've felt like that reading a piece of fiction.
I know this is the norm during the medieval times and in smaller communitiee, but taking our modern day perspective into the picture there are definitely some alabama shenanigans with their kid's genes right now. Not only is Aisha Ars' aunt as rudeus' half sister, but also both Rudy and Eris are distant cousins.
No hate for the chapter though, I feel like it made sense for her character but I can also completely get by the critics' perspective. Perhaps bumping the timeline when this happened to about a few more yrs would be fine. I think 11 is far too young but somewhere around 13-14 makes sense in an adolescent perspective of feeling like you're really in love like Ars was but still allow for the same conflict in the family to happen with just a few tweaks. Maybe the pregnancy was a bit much and needs to either be removed or reworked. Because it added for a lot of tension and a jarring one yr gap in the story which I think is a bit too long of a time skip for a side story to take, which might have led to some people criticizing it for having large stakes despite only being tangentially related to the main story. But that's just my opinion on it, people have different tolerances in that matter.
I like this because it revealed a lot of details about the things hinted at regarding his past life. His resentment and irrational thinking towards the decision to separate Aisha and Ars was actually linked and expanded upon to very detailed events from his past life. This aspect I very much enjoyed.
I also very much liked how the wives reacted to this situation, particularly Eris. She completely bodied her own son, slicing off his arm as well and beating him to a pulp. Then Roxy spit some facts at him regarding being prepared to die and actually dying. The comparison to Rudeus' actions in his fight, and the way he begged, really highlights and reminds us how he genuinely treasures the well-being of his family above all things he could possibly possess, including his life, and his pride. This is a great contrast to his previous life and seeing him confront these problems buried deep within him that could only be brought out by this specific situation, I enjoyed reading about
The reasoning for Aisha to fall in love with Ars made sense on paper, but it really can't translate to most people including myself as most people don't have an upbringing remotely similar to Aisha. That is still somthing odd no matter how I much I try to understand.
Anyways, I guess this chapter was controversial enough to be deleted from canon, but its contents (apart from the incest) are great.
Ars was initially supposed to be older by the time he did this with Aiasha. Eris was supposed to have gotten pregnant after Her and Rudeus's one night together before she left him to train. She was superposed to be pregnant and give birth to Ars at the Dojo. The idea was scrapped after being half-way done because the author felt that it was a disservice to both Eris and Rudeus's characters. Marrying Eris simply because she had had his child because of the one night stand seemed a really bad cop out to him.
I read the controversial chapter and honestly, I understood the idea behind it, I still kind of recognize why people didn't felt like it belonged on Redundancy's line.
Most of it has been explained in this video expertly, if anything I could add from my own thoughts are two things: one, Ars' age. Yeah, it would be the same age difference no mater when this would have happened, however the fact Ars was just a moldable child made him less of a part of this story and more of a victim (which again I understood that was intentionally), yet the ending made it look like it wasn't such a big deal.
Second, and I go back to Ars, is his passiveness across the whole ordeal. Again, I understood why that was done, it was even explained a bit on the last parts of that story, where we also got to see some of Ars' determination and feelings for Aisha, implying that, while he had been groomed for a while now, he still hold his feelings as a valid reason for his actions. Yet this was so late into the story and it was so little, it seemed more like brain washing than actual character development (again, I wouldn't be surprised if this was intentional).
I personally think more of Ars input should be added into the story, as well as expand the end, as to not leave it as ambiguous as it was.
Again, this is my silly non-writer POV on this topic, and while I still found some of the story a bit squick, I fully understand what the author wanted to imply with it, exemplified by the fact that Aisha never wore her maid uniform ever again. I still have trust in this writer and his skill, give him enough time and I am sure he will set things wright, eventually.
All we have to do is be patient and wait.
Haven't read the deleted chapter, but it sounds fine to me the way you described it. Characters in MT do messed up things, then the consequences are felt and dealt with. Aisha was groomed by Lilith to want a piece of Rudy, it makes sense that she would be interested in his son. It sounds like the groomed became a groomer. Nothing about the story sounds like a stretch for the sake of salacious deviance. Sounds like critics offended by offensive subjects. Murder, slavery, Rudy touching sleeping Eris, Paul gaslighting Rudy, tons of offensive disgusting events and subjects in MT. I hope the author writes the story in a way that feels right to him, not compromising for people outraged at outrageous events in fiction.
The Old Testament would never pass twitter or publishers standards if someone tried to write it today. Outrageous behavior all over it.
I feel like adding that the over arching story of MT is the story of a person considered the worst in Japanese society. A shut in, pedo, NEET that is estranged from his family. Japanese culture considers it cowardice to choose to shut yourself in the house. Despite some 'culture' the west sees from Japan, pedos are not ok in Japanese society. To be a NEET is counter to the Japanese work ethic, and to be estranged from your family to the extent that you don't attend your parents double funeral is breaking the highest moral value in Japanese society - honoring family. This story is one in which this detestable person is written so they can be understood by outsiders. Why are they shut in, how did that lifestyle lead them to be a NEET and pedo estranged from family? Then the story goes on to show them overcoming each of the ills of their past life. You can't teach morals, or write a story of hope to overcome ones failings without the characters doing outrageously immoral things.
I know I am preaching to the choir, but it bothers me that so many people don't understand FICTION and their voice is given the same weight. We need platforms that host fiction to be a bit BASED when philistines complain.
I am feeling like this video is timely because it seems like the author is getting gaslit a bit like Rudy was gaslit by Paul in this weeks episode.
@@titanmachine2005 one of the main critic i saw on that front is the perceived lack of regret, change, punishmentas well as plain un willingness to follow that type of sinner.
I personally think that's missing the point , ignoring facts and also that insistance on punishment for punishment sake is wrong.But not like i can change minds
Though i do understand somewhat.in another series, there's a character(Gilgamesh from fate) that is similarly as sinful, though in other ways (still lewd ones, among other things) and i can't help feeling a certain rejection, even when I intellectually acknowledge that it's not all there s to him.It's not really hate, but not appreciation either.So i can't blame people too much
Haven't finished the vid but the avatar drip is looking fine.
Thank you!
You're the best Natalie. Love the dedication.
By some weird coincidence I literally just read these chapters a few hours ago. What Aisha did was definitely fucked up and shameful, but I don't think it's out of place for Mushoku Tensei at all. It's like a lot of things in this series, the story isn't treating it as a spectacle but rather trying to examine the impact an event like this would have on the characters. Aisha never really grew up in the main story, she was always manipulative and you could kind of tell she was still fucked up based on Lilia's parenting. Not only did her actions seem in character, but it finally let her story come full circle. The whole series is about very fucked up people getting redemption arcs. Maybe it could've been written better, but it doesn't make any sense to strike this from cannon like a lot of people seem to want.
Best explanation
I also appreciate this chapter because it’s an obstacle or even a conflict completely unique to what was going for the last few arcs in the main books, where it effects and conflicts his whole goal post-Turning Point 4 where he wants to keep his family safe and happy…he knew no matter what he does the family will be somewhat negatively shaped by this issue
That is… incredibly interesting.
It’s super yikes, but I could mostly see this scenario happening in a gross, already somewhat incestuous, Royal medieval family.
In that same vein, the way you describe the characters and circumstances makes it all seem like it follows a very clear line of character logic.
I gotta say, I probably couldn’t write this story. I am nowhere near good enough, and far too horny, to handle dodgy material likes this, so I can respect the writer on that level.
Since common theme through Mushoku Tensei is about broken people doing the best they can, even changing course and being redeemed from their previous life, this story fits perfectly. It will be interesting to see how the new official version plays out.
I honestly don't see the big deal about this. Honestly, it all seems kinda tame to me.
Yeah, I mean, obviously the situation in the chapter is messed up, but it's not like it's written in a sketchy way or anything.
I think I was just expecting something more shocking, tbh. But maybe I'm just jaded from all the anime I've seen.
TBH, I have seen much worse in more mainstream written works.
Do we need to remind everyone of the stuff in GOT?
Err... The only GOT I can think of is "Galaxy of Terror." But that's not at all anime related, sorry.
@@Meloncolliepoet no. Game of Thrones. Well.
Drogo struggle snuggled Daenerys when she was 13 in the book. And basically their entire relationship is messed up.
I wanted to explore the idea of Rudy basically being immortal after death basically because he’s soul is not from that world and he’s soul commands a lot of magic power his soul basically survives until the end of time( not physically but as a soul looking in to his world).
until the main enemy for vol 13 to the end dies ether due to humans dying out for some reason or just being sealed the way he was. (Basically not being able to use an ability kills him)
allowed rudy to watch the universe that he lived in crumbling away. Then basically it restarts (Futurama forward time travel style) where he watch’s history unfold and we can see dragon gods story and eventually rudy does get reborn in the same go around as before basically seeing dragon gods loops and how Would Rudy redo his life.knowing what’s going to happen.
Like would he get in touch with orsted right off the bat
Would he not tell people about teleport event just tell orsted or tell his parents and not get believed.
Just make it to where everybody he knows survives teleport event by an elaborate plan .
to teleport them before hand to a safe location with a teleport scroll.
Basically i want a bunch of what ifs because the author wrote a really good story and I wanna know with how much rudy effects the world around him
What if he can use (toki)? fighting spirit) this time because he creates a magic tool clothing that allows him too.
Would he not pass Roxie because he already know zenith location otherwise
you know its a good world and story when you cant keep your curiosity at bay about every little what if
When i found out about the deleted chapter i was expecting something worse but after your explanation it does make a lot of sense. Aisha has a servant mentally brought by her mom, and if she can't marry rudeus then a "heir" would be the next big thing. It's completely in character for them
Tbh, i was once not looking forward to reading that chapter but after finishing it, i think it is the natural and only progression for aisha’s character and also a 180 of rudy’s character and previous situation and imo by the end i actually enjoyed it.
This feels like a podcast and i feel a ride of emotions just like how i fell when reading a manga
I think the solution is an easy one, or at least feasible enough. There's not enough context to help understand why Aisha did "that".
I believe there should be a chapter, or at least a passage in the series, explaining Lilia's training and mental state at ◼️◼️◼️◼️◼️ palace. If that part was stipulated upon, then I believe it would be easier to digest the Deleted Chapter since there will be more context for readers to know.
One of the new covers for the LN seems to have a bit of foreshadowing, if you look at both Ars and Aisha.
What I also took from it is this part of the story will still happen, but with some differences, specifically: Ars seems way more mature now, so he may no longer bee a pasive passenger to the story.
I haven't read the redundancy chapters yet so I don't have an opinion on the story, but hearing your thoughts on it was nice regardless.
Also, the context you gave on why the chapter got deleted and the authors thoughts on the chapter were something I hadn't heard about before.
Going in this video I was thinking the entire time "she's gonna talk about THAT chapter, she's gonna talk about THAT chapter." I had only heard about this chapter but, I never wanted to read it, and I 100% still don't the thought of it makes me sick, regardless your video was very insightful as always.
aisha 's story is just tragic not because of deliberate actions but because of the complex of the people around her
what i hate the most about the aisha chapter is that it makes sense. Although Magonote failed to properly convey the psychology behind Aishas actions in a coherent matter, i still, atfer alot of rereading and pondering got the gist of it. At first the story came out of the blue, Aisha, my at the time Favorite Charakter; a smart, funny and lovely person randomly turns into a groomer, ped0, alabama, kidnapper and stagetory r4pist. But the signs were already there. she always seemd off. Like a ticking Trauma time bomb. I cant put it into words but in retrospect Aishas action were rational in the same manner that a psychopaths murder spree are rational. sure, from the outside looking in it may just seem like incoherent ill- intend but once you crack the code, understand the behavioural patterns, understand the "game rules" by which such individuals play in other words if one pieces the puzzle together; one can find themselves looking back and going "ohhh i get it"
I like this one because it's raw, unadulterated drama. This is probably the culmination of all the themes that MT had defined by the end of the novel. This is development for one of the characters that didn't received much attention in the original novel, Aisha, and made me look back in retrospective to analyze her as a whole and I was seriously disturbed by many instances of her upbringing that I honestly didn't paid much attention to.
Regarding the author "self-censoring" of this chapter. I feel really sad that it got pulled out from the story because it added so much to the "Greyrat family" character development as a whole. I wish that the author is either thinking of a better way (at least in his head, because for me the chapter is already perfect) to transmit his intended message or just get the chapter back in in an official release or something (I just wish is not censored if that is the case).
Yeah I read it and found it to be pretty tough, and when consider the tone of redudancy arc it doesnt seem to fit.. Aisha was kinda of a villain in most of this story too, even considering her reasons she was very hateable.. but overall it was a very important history and I cant get over the fact it was deleted considered it is the story that rudeus opens up to his family about his past life, which for me is a major plot point in all mushoku tensei
I've only ever read the LN. These redundancy stories sounds awesome imo. Who wouldn't wanna see more of their favorite characters after the story ends 🙂. Thanks for the awesome story And glad to hear how she grew up
The rest of the Redundancy stories are a lot less dramatic and more just nice happy endings for some characters or fun slice of life stuff - it's a good thing to read after the main story.
@@NatalieXHunter what would be the easiest way to read them? Are they on bookwalkers? I didnt see them but i may not be calling them the right thing
The Redundancy chapters are not released as official light novels yet - they're part of the free web novel, which the light novels are adapted from. So, you just need to Google fan translations of Mushoku Tensei Redundancy to find sites that have translations of them (I can't just share a link to where I read them because someone sent me a link to their Google Drive where they had them, but they aren't hard to find with normal searches).
Redundancy is intended to be read after the whole Mushoku Tensei story though, which means if you've only read the English LNs, you'll want to read the rest of the story from the web novel first or it'll spoil a lot of things or just not really make sense yet. If you're caught up on the English LNs you'll be up to volume 13, so you need to start from volume 15 of the WN to continue where that leaves off (the numbering is slightly different, so WN vol 14 is the same story as LN vol 13).
@@NatalieXHunter oh wow i thought that was the end of the story. Thanks so much and ill definitely look that up 🙂
Nooooo, there are 22 volumes of the WN!
Shocking? No not really. Honestly get rid of the fantasy aspects and this could be a historical tail of medieval times.
it would be interesting to see what changes the remake would have!
Ahh, I still remember the first time I read that chapter. I was just as shocked as Rudeus I jumped from my seat.
It was like, "wait, what??"
Couldn't believe, I read the paragraph again, and like "WHAT THE F******* "
Even after the main story ended, stories from extra chapter still could make me shocked. The depth of the story of each character is just on another level.
Mushoku Tensei is not just an isekai/fantasy story, its a life journey.
and Thus Best Son take his place over his elder brother and got a whole book dedicated to him.
Its a shame i can't read Japanese so im stuck on LN 13 and i can't read the side stories which til im done and the grammar for the web novel translations are questionable, but the redundancy chapters will be interesting, the current dynamic between the Rudeus family and how they handle topics like parenthood is amazing
I just read the WN after vol 13 - the translations are fine in most volumes (19 was a bit rough iirc), and at least you don't have Seven Seas changing stuff... Still, if you really don't want to read the WN, vol 14 is out in a couple of weeks.
@@NatalieXHunter Yeah, ill be waiting to poach the early digital release but as far as i've seen in threads the LN was barely changed from the WN unless im missing something , good thing too since i cant control myself and would likely finish Mushoku and be sad with nothing left to read, but i've heard of a planned sequel , no idea if it will follow Ruedus' children war against hitogami or be a adaption of another six faced world story, its really sad that it most likely wont be more of ruedus's adventures
@@Rags-Sgar I recommend Yuzitsu after you finish Mushoku. Very good light novel tbh.
There's stuff added in the LN in terms of detail towards the end (plus volume 7 of the LN is LN only - it was just a timeskip in the WN, but you've already read that so it doesn't really matter), but from what Japanese speakers have told me the plot and characters are more or less the same - seems like it changes more in the direction of adding stuff in the LN rather than taking it out like Re:Zero arc 4, but with the same result of it not being an entirely different story or characters being written differently.
I think a sequel would have to at some point address the hitogami thing because otherwise we'll forever not get to know what happens to Orsted!
@@josefonseca9178 shall check it out
Love this content
Being and old WN fan of MT, i love this arc. I understand where the problems are and the why of the controversy, but that didn't take away form the story.
And now, re-reading the story once more through the LN, i'm excited seeing some foreshadowing of the Aisha matter, and expecting for the author to do a LN version of it, as well as for all the side stories
I was actually more hoping that Rudeus would end up taking Lillia as another one of his wives (messed up, yes, but let's keep it grounded on the story's willingness to present the complicatedness of human relationships). We know that Lillia pushed Aisha into that mindset out of gratitude to Rudeus and her own inferiority complex. I was sort of hoping to read something along the lines of Lillia taking the matter of "serving" Rudeus into her own hands, but she is instead met with Rudy and family actually honestly loving her in return. The sincerity of the love she receives (she would first think of herself as a lowly mistress/servant again at first given her complex), then would later make her realize that she is actually loved as a true wife and a part of the family, something which Paul failed to make her realize when he was still alive. Realizing her mistakes and overcoming her own complex, she then faces the fact of what she did to Aisha and how that pushed her daughter to making her own mistake as well. As per usual, the story would end happy with Aisha and her new family moving back after years. I think the build-up between Rudeus and Lillia would happen during the years Aisha was gone (since her daughter is gone she has to take matters into her own hands).
Sure, there might be no need and Lillia can just stay as it were in the story without such a development. However, I felt like it was wasted potential that could've concluded Lillia's issues and tied the entire story in the same complicated manner MT handles things. It also presents a kind of closure that Lillia doesn't grow old and die as a single maid bound by her issues underneath, and finally receiving the love she had been rejecting from Paul and family out of her complex those past years in the form of Rudy and his wives and children.
It would be weird but i d read it
I think that sadly enough Lillian complex was not totally unwarranted: after the first offense she only ever slept with her husband in life death situation/as long as zenith is pregnant
While to an extent it s a sort of karmic punishment,it also somehow makes her lower ranked
What she was wrong is that she was really loved and that really everybody but zenith family (not zenith herself) considered her it's a shame that sometimes, circumstances and your own mind make it impossible to believe it
I thought of a similar concept of Rudeus taking Lilia as a 4th wife but I couldn’t figure out how to write in away that felt satisfying, thought I would like to see a chapter of Lilia finally understanding that she is a member of the family, that Rudeus considers her a second mother and grandmother to his children
I think people these days are lacking in the emotional maturity to be able to cope with stuff like this. I hear the word "empathy" bandied about a lot but I get the feeling people have it confused with sympathy and not seeing things from others perspective. There's also this odd assumption that anything written is meant to be taken in the best possible light, that if a character does something or acts a certain way its an endorsement by the author of the behavior in question.
ho boy i wonder what people will think if this adjusted version more so the ages gets animated years from now
When you were talking about the chapter I automatically knew what it was about
It’s interesting since you could compare him to kid Rudy and then he can look at how he acted when young. Important to remember he asked Roxy’s hand in marriage when younger than 12 lol. She does look cute. It’s just a very off putting age. I guess it will stay in the family for a bit. I do think that it’s possible that this also doesn’t get resolved in their lifetime since they still could have scars too. Messed up parenting lasts for some time too and for several generations. There’s many harems with aunt and nephew like for example strike the blood and testament of a sister new devil series
Still canon no matter how others see it.
Waiting for Magonote to finish it. (Old one is still my canon until he rewrites it)
Yeah, I think the same - the relationship is mentioned in other stories so clearly that is canon, and until he rewrites it I take the chapter as the canon way they got together.
@raynaldo arlen k.eman I mean their world is based on medieval Europe thing like that were normal at the time the author just applying a little realism
@@holycrusader7649 you know there are laws in the early mediaeval times against incest, Such as the Scripture, Consanguinity. Which also includes kinship. It was later when Royal families and high noble houses wanted to conceal power within the house, when inbreeding became a thing, Still not that common though.This is to say incestol love, Was immensely rare. which makes this scenario in this story very unrealistic, for the setting that is supposed to take inspiration from.
@@islanddenaagikont1642 I mean technically redeus family is nobles but the reason for marriage wasn't for power non the less it was still use by nobles and royal at the time as you said so it might be perfectly legal for them I mean redues and eris are cousin in some way If I remember correctly so incest is very normal in their world
@@holycrusader7649 eris is third cousin to him ,and pretty sure is illegal to marry anywhere in the world, in our era.I believe also common to marry Your third cousin around the 1800s. another thing is the Scripture that I reference to, was literally law in the Roman holy Empire, and there was some region that punished incest by the death.this would be the Era of the 500s
Feels like this story will never make it into the LN, or at the very least in a very different state, since LN publishers generally have even more strict guidelines compared to the webnovel site MT is published on
i think it's sad that ppl can get so offended about something and even have the power to push there opinions on creaters and artists and force them to change something or deleating it.
The world is a grim place even morewhen ppl forcefully try to make it otherwhise and we can't get around these chapters in our own lifes and im coniviced that is a good thing if in storys we are confronted with storys like this to expirience how we think about them and even refelct on how we would handle this situations, even to maybe grow a bit for our self in consequence of that.
I i have expriienced that my self... there are a few storrys i had read or whatched and some morale and emotional events in that storys helped me when i incountert simular situations in my life even as an example that i nearly lost a dear frinde of mine just becuase this friend we would find our self in a opositposition where this friend stoud up for somthing i would absolutly disagree on.
But i learnd from fictunal Storys that life is moste likely a mess and every thing how obscure it might seam at first has a reason and because of that realasition i had in the past i was able to clean every thing up and we meet till this day.
there are alot of things out there that make us uncomfteble but to screem or wine about them we have to work them out, push throu because otherwhise our life will fall apart like in Mushoku Tensei even or moste exspecaly if one thinks "naa that's not happening to me".
And i know that as in the vidio stated the author gave other reasons for deleting this chapter but this dosen't exclude that ppl where complaining for thais reasopn nad this specific target in minde and today my argumand stands even stronger with our todays cancle culture and this constantly prasure to not offend anybody.
I heard about this chapter when I was hunting for spoilers and honestly, the way you tell it isn't that bad. I mean it's a little messed up but it certainly has its own point
Just another day if you’ve read game of thrones
I just found this out recently and it is Wild. I do think it needs some revision but not the whole thing because I do believe this is near perfect but I need a little more depth.
Love your vids mate
I was initially concerned when I first heard about it but after reading the chapter I found it to be one of the most interesting stories in Mushoku Tensei, if I was to offer some criticism I’d say we need more of Aisha perspective and thoughts both before the relationship started and after she and Ars ran away and expanded on the ending besides “she never wore a maid outfit again”
Oh wow. This story is.... quite shocking indeed. To be honest I find the relationship as orignially presented to be rather fucked up. I'm not sure what a reworked version would look like or even if I would approve of it, but goddamn Magonote isn't affraid of following up on stuff he set up. Lilias guilt and shame she forced on Aisha was clearly something that impacted her deeply and while "she got over it eventually" would be a simpler solution, examining how those experiences would fester and come to the surface later is a much much ballsier move and shows how much the writer cares about the story. Even if I think this kinda goes somewhat against the main storys implicit theme of "pedophilia is not good".
I don't think it goes against that theme at all - even though they do end up together. It's more like, Aisha recognizes she made a huge mistake, but with a bit of time, and Ars being allowed to grow up, the mistake didn't have to ruin their lives.
@@NatalieXHunter Well it's more like a lot of continous mistakes, but I get what you mean. Time heals all I guess? I bet if I read the chapter I'll be agreeing you 100%, this series can really make me cry like baby when it comes to the heart-to-hearts. Paul and Rudy; Norn and Rudy; the family gathering after the labyrinth arc are top 10 scenes for me.
The second they mentioned a controversial deleted chapter I knew they were talking about Aisha and Ars 😂🤢🤮
Thanks for the shocking warning
I remember this chapter, I had no clue it was deleted.
I thought it was gonna be worst but it really wasn't but I felt a little intrigue of their relationship I hope they make more.
Ah yes
The forbidden Boruto Gaiden chapter, highly controversial.
LOL if anything like this happened in Boruto... I might start covering it.
ETA this is a joke, please nobody ask me to cover Boruto.
@@NatalieXHunter please cover boruto
@@NatalieXHunter Haha, it was more of a reference to the weird intersection of that fanbase, that are into shipping Boruto with Hanabi, or even Hinata herself in some very disturbing instances. But yeah you can pretty much expect anything from glorious Nihon lmao.
@@NatalieXHunter please cover Boruto
@@NatalieXHunter I can make some people rage by simply mentioning that the next episode of Boruto has come out.
Love the video~
Although I really appreciate your review and research here, ngl, I wished you would've released this after the first season; when the hype has cooled down a bit.
Why? Because people can't help but spoil themselves (even inadvertedly). Especially with a title like that, haha!
I've already seen some completely regretting it. They just don't know how big the impact of these spoilers are. I mean, I could even clearly hear the trepidation in your voice. Still, you did give proper fair warning. Props to that.
Now then, in all honesty, it took me a long time to continue through Redundancy after Rudeus found out about the affair.
I couldn't continue reading after that. In all my re-reads back then, I had never went past the Aisha arc.
I was just as stunned as Rudeus as if I were in his shoes. It didn't help that we had to experience it through Rudy's PoV, with all his emotion being transmitted into the reader.
I did inevitably finish it though a couple or so years back. And... I loved it!
After the initial shock, it was a breeze to read but ofc, still heavy and impactful. It really culminated a part of the entire story and its themes incredibly. The callbacks were amazing. The characters were also encapsulated very well.
Fine literature, I should say! You could just as well redo it in proper novel format and it'd be a bestseller in bookstores all over at the mature section (actually, it might already be one of Norn's own books.) A combination of 2 of Norn's books, "The Anguish of a Genius - Aisha Greyrat" & "Autobiography - An Average Person Surrounded by Geniuses" done in a modern-ish setting or Victorian one.
Hmm, now I feel like writing a fan-story heavily based on that~
Releasing things when there is no hype for them would be a recipe for failure on this platform, unfortunately - though actually the timing was simply because I just read Redundancy myself and wanted to talk about it!
Yes, a real version of Norn's fictional books would be really cool!
@@NatalieXHunter cool, cool ~
It's just my selfish wish :p
It's incredible how well you've digested this arc though, considering you just read it. Going the extra mile with those interview insights too.
The epiphanies and effort in the afterglow of a read through, I suppose.
What's great about MT's take-aways is in how the lessons simmer for a long time and stay with the reader. A helpful experience.
I'm guessing you'll be reading the Joblesse Oblige and Old Dragon's Tale side stories after Redundancy? Unless, you already have.
Lots of stuff to talk about; heck, the next episode will prompt essays from everyone!
Much success ~
Yess, I'm going to read Oblige just as soon as I finish replying to my comments!
thank You.
That's just too gross imo. Damn I did not know about this deleted chapter even when I ve read the whole story. Man I liked Aisha so much and don't want her to go after a family member.
Anyways, nice information to know.
I have not yet read Redundency, so I obviously have not read this chapter. However, yesterday, I watched a video explaining the full Greyrat family tree and when it mentioned that Aisha married Ars, I was not evenly slightly surprised. It just made sense considering how she was raised to be a sexual partner and servant for Rudeus. And hearing more about it from this video, it feels even more logical that something like this would have happened. I cant speak about Ars, but it seems likely that Aisha has been conditioned to the point that it would be impossible for her to be able to find someone that she is not directly blood related to attractive. I guess you could say Lilia messed up Aisha to a similar degree that Roxy messed up Pax. (Just in very different ways.)
I am still new to anime, manga and light novels in general so I had no prior knowledge of this plot before watching your vide. But honestly, now I want to watch the anime and buy the light novels! This story sounds so awesome! Such complex and layered plots. The characters are multifaceted and the exploration of themes is amazing. I don't think ASOIAF has even handled themes like this. I wanna read this series.
Oh yeah, it's great - there is loads to it. And the web novel version is also finished as a story, so unlike ASOIAF, the author actually managed to end it!
@@NatalieXHunter That is good to know. I, especially, agree with you on the part of the story been complete unlike ASOIAF. I will definitely buy the light novels now. Thanks again. Glad I stumbled on this by chance.
The light novels are only translated up to volume 13, but after that you can read fan translations of the original web novel to read the rest of the story and the extra stuff like the story this video is about.
Really like the story! Thanks
What makes me not appreciating that part of the story is the sadness of the whole Aisha situation, as her attachment to Ars seems more forced than anything, too heavily influenced by Lilia's misconceptions and inferiority feeling. Especially since Rudeus knew from a long time that Lilia had a big misunderstanding about her and Aisha's position in the Greyrat family. I scratch my head about why the author hadn't made Rudeus clearly making things straight with Lilia and Aisha way earlier, so that Aisha can have a more normal life than their over-dependance on Rudeus position. I'm not so much annoyed by the incestual part than for the reasons of it, which I think slightly weird, for reasons I just explained above. Mushoku Tensei is a story that I discovered with the anime and I continued the story with the LN until the end of volume 14 (so turning point 4). While I obviously miss a lot of things in terms of plot, considering that the story goes up to 26 volumes, what striked me with that work is the sheer attachment that I built with almost all the characters (especially those close to Rudeus) and that it made me feel incredibly empathetic about them. Aisha and Lilia are no exception and I really want them to be happy, despite what they experienced with the displacement event and the loss of Paul. I really hope that Maganote will find a better way to end the story for those characters.
I wish the author wouldn't care about what the public thinks about his work. Artists shouldn't change their work because of critical fans or the public in general. If people don't like something then don't read, watch, or listen to it!
I don't know anything about the series yet but it's on my list. Also the scene as described in the video sounds pretty tame. We are talking about anime here where nothing is real, and the medium often takes complete advantage of that fact.
The thumbnail looks like a choose your starter Pokémon
LOL it does, I choose charmander.
I really like this chapter. Change of Aisha, her relationship with Ars, Family Drama... It was one of the best chapters imo.
I don't understand why people are offended. Mushoku Tensei never tried to give us a story with our modern moral standarts anyway.
Also MT world have very different moral values than us. When you think about it, none other than Rudy and Lilia seen a problem that big.
Later we see Rudeus realize this fact as well.
People should calm down about it. Hope Rifujin could write a even better remake after finishing the LN.
It makes me extremely sad to know people would make such a big deal about this. Is having a child with a family member okay? No. While this situation goes beyond the typical "onni-sama" trope, it still wasn't too far off kilter from the shows origins and highly sexualized environment. There's hundreds of things that happen in story telling that are immoral but have become normalized like killing innocent people for example. The writer of the series is in my opinion a genius and it's sad to see him being forced to change the story he wanted to write.
Oh man, you just made me realise that I forgot to read Redundancy chapters. Now I got to dig trough the Internet to find them. And figuring out if I found all the "deleted" ones will be nightmare
Only the Aisha story was deleted, but if you google Redundancy you can easily find a translation that has the deleted chapters included.
I like others had an issue with their relationship. When I first read this chapter my immediate searches were if it's safe for them to have a kid (answer is yes due to Aisha being a half sibling and doesn't share the same gene mutations as Ars). But then I read Chris's story which was like a breath of fresh air and all was well.
I love Chris's story. I might do a reading of it sometime.
@@NatalieXHunter Please do! LOVE your stuff!
i can understand how some fans didn't like it, it was put on a series that was supposed to be lighthearted and it wasn't just a scene it was an entire heavy story but other than that i didn't really see anything wrong with it.
I think this makes sense, and brings life to these characters, children often do things their parents don’t approve and they learn from it! Also to do something the readers don’t approve just makes them more real in terms with how they developed over the story, we as readers are not entitled to like every aspect of a masterpiece!
after reading this i got a chuckle out of the LN 26 cover
The author could make it where they both go off to some academy or training facility thing, she as his attendant, and when they come back, they announce they were getting married and she was already pregnant but early stages instead of late like in the original so they could either go off on their own and come back to mend the bridge or they discuss everything right then and there.
Meh, I expected worse. Based on what you described, it seems like exactly the kind of drama Mushoku Tensei is particular towards. It puts Rudeus especially in a picklish position, since, technically speaking, there was a point where his behaviour was not that different to Aisha's coughyoungsylphiecough. I haven't read the chapter, but I would definitely enjoy seeing such a dynamic explored. The only thing I am slightly on the fence about is the ending - because while it is far from unbelievable that Ars would remain smitten with Aisha well into adulthood, I feel like it would have done Aisha greater credit to see her, like Rudeus, grow and move past her old obsessions and insecurities - this way, the ending kind-of feels like she just made a mistake ATM, not in principle.
I saw it at as the culmination of her early life bringing her to this one huge mistake where the parties responsible are forced to reflect on how the situation got to this point and ultimately take responsibility for what has happened.
It does end with the family essentially letting it continue but there is a newborn child involved and the couple are made to wait until both individuals become adults before resuming any relationship together.
And hopefully with all the heart to hearts Aisha and Ars' child can break the cycle.
Personally i dont think the story is that shocking. While from our modern point of view or even the charackters own there might me moral questions surounding this relationship, it none the less explores the psyche of Aisha in a none apologetic way.
She is through her mothers upbringing "broken" and in this chapter we see just how much it accualy affects her.
Personaly I think its a realistic conclusion to her character ark and i hope that there will be as few changes as possible if and when the new version comes out.
I honestly more flabbergasted by the authors incompetence than anything else, Didn't the the guy read the guidelines on the website he was posting his novel on.
@@islanddenaagikont1642 I mean do you read the terms of service on any website you make an account on? or for every game you install? Normaly we all just assume that if we dont do anytheng "bad" we wont break them. its an honest mistake. If that is the true reason he took the story down.
But that i wont judge over
I read the Roxy Manga, where the marriage relations have been spoiled in the first chapter, so I dont fear the spoilers... I hope.
Just caught up & completed the LN+WN + The redundancy chapters!!
So great to see someone talking about above anime content!! Thanks!!
Also, for me: Norn relationship is more weird than Aisha's!! He was basically a Dad character for her, no way it should make sense!