Tesla Model 3 Lithium Ion 2170 Cells Put To The Test!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ต.ค. 2024
- Putting to the test Tesla Model 3 lithium ion 2170 cells. Also known as "21700", made by Panasonic. The cells were extracted from a Tesla Model 3 battery module. Results can vary. Enjoy the video!
21700 Cells: bigbattery.com...
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To those people wondering, these are GENUINE (Panasonic)Tesla 2170's. The company purchased a new Model 3 battery module, then carefully extracted each cell so they could be used for many other purposes(smaller battery packs, etc). Once extracted, each cell was cleaned up, tested, capped, and re-wrapped. You can see the video by clicking the link below.
21700 Cells shown are available here: bigbattery.com/product/bigbattery-model-3-2170-cells-w-cap-box-of-25/ref/19/
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Link to battery extraction procedure:
th-cam.com/video/ckhjYMAE9yg/w-d-xo.html
electronicsNmore There are some 18650 at 3600mAh, like sony INR18650-M36, SAMSUNG 36G and a PANASONIC
Any weight on the battery to calculate wh/kg? Tesla has claimed north of 260
@job holder I didn't check the weight, but the link to the cells above should have it listed. Thanks for watching!
@@electronicsNmore 70g. So 3.7 ave discharge voltage times 4.8 ah (@~1c discharge)/ 70g = 253 wh/kg. Not the 260+ musk claimed
@@yogamon they weld in cap and wrapper, so maybe it really 260+
Absolutely amazing review! Always a thumbs up and looking forward to seeing the next video.
Thank you! I await your next incredible product testing video. :-)
Hey PF fancy seeing you here.
Hrrm. Now I see why this was suggested to me, having watched all of PF's videos.
Time to watch a bunch of battery videos here. (I modify electronic nerf blasters, and we tend to work on the edge of battery tech. I have one little nerf blaster that can have instantanious draw of nearly 200a. . . though in typical use it never gets above 60. . .)
Thank you for developing these tests and sharing your results. I would like to know more about your full "recipe" that is how are you charging the cells and how long they are allowed to rest between charge and discharge.
You're welcome Steve. I use a 1.5A or 3A charge rate. The 1.5A only resulted in a slight temp rise, and the 3A only a little higher. After waiting 30 mins, the tests were carried out. When the cells were only slightly warm after full discharge, I recharged them. Thanks for watching, and be sure to share.
Finally I get to see some youtuber doing proper battery testing. Thank you.
You're welcome!
Just ordered 25 cells fir some custom battery packs I’ll be making for my drones!! I got 10% discount thanks to your code!!!
Thanks for your support!
Thanks, I am considering buying a 48 volt pack of these cells. That was encouraging, so much really bad stuff out there now 😮
Great video, wish you did a 15 amp discharge and then a full recharge to see if any there are any changes in capacity, maybe even run the cycle a few times and record the results.
Not every cell can do a max current discharge and walk away without any damage, though I suspect this cell should do well.
These are Genuine Tesla cells, so I think they'd be OK. Thanks for watching!
3600 mah is the highest currently available, i havent ordered any 3600, however i am currently using the samsung 35e 3500mah cell in my battery repair company, glad you are pointing out the prevalence of fake cells
Samsung 35e is 3450mah in fact.
@@kepa109 I guess they could be, they seem to average out a little bit over 3500mah from my tests
@@kepa109 I've never had one test out under 3500mah, fyi.
Yes - these are nice. I am getting around 4200 - 5000 mah per cell. I wish Elon would sell them directly - they are making so many. They are nearly worthless to me without the professional cleaning, cap and wrap that is done by another party after used packs are disassembled. Thanks for the video.
Maybe in the future Elon will sell them, at least see the "NOS" cells. Thanks for watching!
Awesome accurate testing, great job. 👍🏻
Thank you Frank! Please share and check out my wide range of videos.
How cool would it be to say that your e-bike is powered by Tesla cells!!
Excellent information - always informative, clear and concise videos.
Thank you Rich! Please share the link.
The results are impressive. The only question left is the cycle life but that will take even more effort to test.
Yes, kinda tough to test how many cycles. These are genuine Tesla (Panasonic) cells. The company buys a model 3 battery pack (module), extracts every cell, tests each one, caps them and sells them. I saw the process. They have some expensive equipment.
electronicsNmore
Sounds good enough for me. Unfortunately, I’m in The Netherlands and there are no such companies in Europe to my knowledge.
Subscribed to your channel. Tx!
Great video, and perfect discharge music 💪🏽👌🏽
Glad you liked it! Be sure to rate thumbs up, consider subscribing if you like a wide range of helpful and informative videos, and look over my extensive video playlists below for many other videos of interest to you. Taking one minute to share a link to my channel with others on social networking sites would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
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Great video! Good info all around. A quick question, what model of infrared camera do you use? It looks nice and I'd like to check them out online to see if it'll work good with filming my chemistry videos.
Glad you enjoyed my video. I just finished adding links to equipment shown in this video. Right now you can save $40 on the thermal camera. Thanks for watching! Don't forget to share.
Battery load testing MUST ALWAYS BE DONE USING A 4 WIRE MEASUREMENT SYSTEM........
There are resistive losses in the leads connected to your meter that increase as the current increases...
For this particular test, the losses due to voltage drop were negligible. Actual cell capacity is only slightly higher than what I showed.
Great testing, thanks! Wow, what a nice collection of high power cells, for a zero dollar investment! I can think of a lot of uses for those babies...
Thank you, and you're welcome. I did spend 1 1/2 days filming and editing, so at least I got something for all my time, I surely can't count on views to pay my bills. LOL
@@electronicsNmore ... yeah, I know your time is valuable. Hopefully, your views will get to the point where they do pay off... Sadly, there are a lot of youtubers with great content, but their subscribers are few... You're gaining, but it's slow... Praying for your success...
My 13 series 4 parallel bike battery used 21700 batteries. The BMA allows charge up to 54.2 volts (4.17v per cell). The BMS then cuts power off at 41Volts(3.15volts per cell) what energy does the test cells give out over this range.
The battery pack is sold as 19.2ah but to discharge that amount of energy it has to be allowed to drop to all the way to a level below that which is viewed as a safe operating voltage range.
Interesting cell, thanks for this video! I suspect that the 15A rating might be a bit optimistic for decent cycle life considering the temperature that would be reached at 15A. Will you be doing any cycle life testing?
Yes, higher discharge current will shorten life, but not too much if you don't heavy discharge the cell frequently. Thanks for watching! I intend on using 4 or 5 cells in series with a BMS to make a new battery pack for my Milwaukee hammer drill. Another video. :-)
Tesla actively cools their batteries in their cars so degradation is minimized.
David DiStefano good point! I was only thinking about other uses of the cell where there would be no cooling.
Curious to know why you did not tested a constant 15A load since these batteries are rated up to 15A discharge rate.
tesla supercharger V3 charges at > 2C until the pack gets too hot. so yeah, the cells should be able to handle a 0.6 C charge ;)
Thanks for the info, and thanks for watching!
last number stands for the shape 0 = cylindrical/circle
Yes, I discovered that later. Thanks for watching Bill!
Thanks so much. I really enjoyed the video as well as the rest of the content of the channel, including the the tear down of the n95 respirator which answers questions I did not know I had, and the solar charging ones as well. As for the Tesla cells, given that salvaged ones are widely available at very decent prices I wonder why we do not see more ebike / escooter packs made with them. I am looking at building a 72v / 100 Amps pack and was looking at LG Mj1 but these in a 20s10p would be cheaper and give me overall higher Ah. Am I missing something ?
The company makes battery packs using these Tesla cells. Visit the link. Glad you enjoy my videos! The 25ct box using the coupon code comes out to $5.40ea.
Did you ensure the batteries were fully charged prior to conducting the capacity test? Batteries are generally not shipped fully charged..
Hi Ben. As stated in the video, the cells were shipped at 3.6V, around 30% charged.
I like the Molicel P42A they're 4,000 mah but can handle 30A+ continous discharge. Maximum 40A CDR if kept under 75C
Yes, those are good. Lower capacity, but higher discharge rate. I may need to test them. :-)
electronicsNmore an interesting set of power cells to comparison test are the 30T, 40T, and P42A. As the discharge current levels increase up over 25A you can really start to see the performance improvements that the 30T can bring with its lower DC IR. The P42A and 40T win out at lower current levels due to their higher capacity.
First I would like to say that the capacity the manufacturer states should be the absolute minimum the cell has but due to the temperature behaviour of Lithium Ion cells, this should be stated at a particular temperature. I did some testing on Li-ion cells and for example that at -10C they lost around 70% of their capacity
I clearly stated in the video the temperature at which the tests were carried out. I've tested new Samsung & other high-end cells, and I can tell you the rating is never exact. Some test slightly higher, some test slightly lower.
Great video, thanks!
Liked your battery discharger and wondered how c you could advise where to get one?
Also wondered if there was an inexpensive lipo and nioh charger which incorporated one???
Hi Ron. Glad you liked the video! I posted links in the video description area for test devices shown in my video. I use the one below for my drone and nimh battey packs. It works great. Thanks for watching! Be sure to share the video link on social networking sites.
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I've been testing Chevy Volt Nissan Leaf and Tesla batteries on the back of my electric pickup. Got a special plug so when they're empty I plugged the truck's battery pack back in and drive home. Testing batteries is tedious and a thankless job. When you've done the battery still looks the same.
Thanks for watching Steve!
NCR not means Panasonic. Nickel Cadmium Round. Chemical+Form. NCR can be a Sanyo, Cham, and many others brands. But for tesla it is made by Panasonic, yes.
How many watts/hrs are dissipated as heat in a discharge cycle ? If that's added is that the total output for the cycle ?
hi, how many continuous amps can it drain? and how many maximum amps can it drain? thanks.
Pretty sure the specs are at the link I provided in the video description area. I think it's 15A max cont discharge. Thanks for watching!
Hi, I checked out the charger MIBOXER c4-12 product it can not support charging the 21700 cell then how can you charge the 21700 cells on it? please explain brother.
I also checked the battery cell on the given link but currently, it is out of stock so can you share any other source who can me this same cell?
Response will be appriciated
I checked out the link. I'd call it a bit sketchy to be honest. The battery is labeled 5000mAh, the text description states 4000mAh, and the specifications list 4500mAh. I could possibly image one typ0, but not two. What *is* the spec they are guaranteeing?
Really? I see no mention of 4000, or 4500.
@@electronicsNmore I still had the window up so I grabbed a screen shot. Looks like they went back and edited it. Here's the original: photos.app.goo.gl/hUufS5ZotjmrAgNf8
Of course they were sure about the batteries. They could hand pick from tens of thousands to send you...
You can say that for any company.
I assume at the 1A discharge rate there was no appreciable heating of the cell? (it stayed at room temperature?)
Just warm.
Thanks for sharing
You're welcome Anthony! Please share the video link with others. Thank you
The "zero" at the end say its a cylindrical battery...
I guess Tesla dropped the designation.
Tesla might be calling to Hire you.
great review! i would like also to see a capacity test at 1-10A after charging the cell at 3A ;)
Thanks Paul! I did a test at 5A just after charging at 3A, same result. Thanks for watching! Be sure to share the video link.
@@electronicsNmore thanks for the info. i think they are great cells.
The biggest cell is actually the lg inr18650-m36 with a normal capacity of 3600mah. Above that there is nothing u could buy right now ig
True, but for the most part 3500mAh is usually max for a 18650 cell. It's a good guideline for viewers.
Brilliant information,, would like to see what my home build e-bike performed like on a battery equipped with these 21700 tesla batteries.
Alan R, Shropshire
Thanks for watching Alan! Be sure to rate thumbs up, consider subscribing if you like a wide range of helpful and informative videos, and look over my extensive video playlists below for many other videos of interest to you. Taking one minute to share a link to my channel with others on social networking sites would be greatly appreciated.
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if I have a lithium battery and is used. Do I need to discharge to a certain level or just charge them up. Thanks the video is great.
No, but if you discharge the cells less, you'll get more cycles over time. Thanks for watching Mike! Please share the video link.
@@electronicsNmore I have a lithium Ryobi drill that I used to rebuild a fence. I went to recharge several battery packs but the charger thinks there all bad.do you have any ideas
And they may even hit some fantastic amp hours ratings but then be totally unable to sustain the drain and charge rates required in an automotive application. This was the problem with many honda hybrid replacement batteries from china
These are genuine Tesla model 3 cells. The cells were extracted from a good battery module, each cell tested, capped, then wrapped.
@@electronicsNmore
the first half of the vid, I was referring to chinese batteries you spoke of
Actually, the get the rated 5Ah the cell must be heated and kept around 30 degrees Celsius.
As *Project Farm* stated, excellent review and I look forward to all your videos. I would like to use these cells in an Ebike to power an AGNI/Lynch DC motor. I need 48 volts minimum, so If I put 12 of these end to end inside my bike frame do you think they would be sufficient and work well for that purpose?
Thanks for the polite comment! You need to know the expected current draw.
@@electronicsNmore Thank you for responding! My DC PWM speed controller allows me to control the output power, the expected draw being between 200 watts to 1.5kw max
@@ProlificInvention You can always use groups of cells in series, then all the groups in parallel to boost current capacity.
@@electronicsNmore Great idea, however I was thinking I could fit all the batteries inside the bike frame, end to end. I can fit 12-20 of them which would be perfect really, as the AGNI/Lynch motor will operate from 4 volts up to 90 Volts DC with surprising torque even at low voltage. I have operated one on a 12ah 12 volt battery with no issues. I guess I'll have to give it a try, unless you think it wouldn't work?
@@ProlificInvention is a max of 2hp going to be enough to operate a 200lbs+ bike and rider? For battery pack to support that much you will need a minimum of 24 of the 2170 cells wired for the desired voltage (2 banks of 48V 5000mah) to get a decent runtime. However to reach 1.5KW you will exceed the max 3C discharge rating in this configuration. 40V (under load) X 30amp is only 1.2KW
Zero is for cilindric shape
did you ever have to use a Fuse with the cells to avoid issues ?
The cells aren't protected, so you should use a BMS(Battery Management Board/System) with them. Thanks for watching!
@@electronicsNmore you are welcome I have curiosity so me watching your videos helps
@@williama29 I have plenty for you to watch. :-)
@@electronicsNmore also I am focused on electrical safety and dealing with Batteries
Nice! Thanks for reviewing this cell. I would not mind getting my hands on some of these cells. Any recommendations? I would use these for a Zebralight SC700D flashlight.
You're welcome! They should think about selling them in packs of 8 or 10. I have a powerful LED flashlight that uses 18650, but there was enough space to use the 21700, so I switched. Thanks for watching
Great suggestion - many of the 18650 lites seem to have spare room at least in width!
@@electronicsNmore Aaaand NOW you have to tell us about the flashlight. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thumbnail... I don't think any of my lights would take a 21700.
@@colfaxschuyler3675 It fits in mine with just a little room to spare.
@@electronicsNmore Yes, but...
The Flashlight... Tell us about the Flashlight!
My main every day carry flashlight is the BLF A6 Cree XPL, 1600 lumen, 5A (warm white LED) model (18650).
I'll check it w/ calipers, but my impulse is that it would be too tight.
How about @ 15A discharge as this is what it's max rated at?
I'm sure it would do just fine. The battery would run a little hotter, and you'd get less run time, probably just under 20 mins. Thanks for watching!
Thanx4DaVideos! Very learned! Do you have any info on the best way to drive the model 3 and explain the consumption rates better?
And how do you influence the consumption rates with driving behaviour? What I find to be optimal is to use Autopilot or Auto cruise..
@@japonnahilaw5860 I find autopilot and Adaptative cruise control far more agressive (acceleration and braking/regen) than a normal behaviour at the highway or at cruising speeds over 50 mph, at least here in Europe. Even in Chill mode
creamosites do you think Your driving behaviour will influence your AIUTOPILOT BEHAVIOUR? Isn’t the car has intuitive adaptive behaviour? I kinda feel the more you drive the more it learns... it smoothes itself out, I think , in time from jerky late breaking or sometimes you think your gonna hit the centre median that doesn’t have a yellow or white paint on it..
Mitsubishi Turbo I was trying to say that I drive smoother than adaptative CC so it translates in better efficency when it’s disengaged
Just drive it, but don't drive like a maniac. If you have issues with right foot control, pu it in chill mode.
To drive efficient or increase range do the following:
Avoid hard acceleration and deceleration which is causing high current flow thus increasing losses due to the internal resistance of the cells.
Minimize the use of recuperation, try to coast instead. The smoother you drive the further you go.
You should get easily 150Wh/km or less. In winter 180Wh/km.
Preheat the car from plug power if it's cold.
Set the batt charge state from km or miles to %. and use the built in Navi wherever you go. So you know if you get to the destination and back with one charge.
I just built a 2.59kwh pack out of these cells for my vintage Vespa. So far performing extremely well. Pulling over 8kw for a few seconds at a time with no sweat. I have some more info on Instagram. instagram.com/sunlightconversions/
Will be posting a full build video on my YT channel soon.
Great to hear! Thanks for watching
Anyone can tell me what is the best ratio Watt hour to kg 18650 Vs 2170 , I guess 2170 are better capacity
less Capacity with less Ampere(1A) compared to 10A? I'm confused
The cells tested very close to the rated capacity.
Lol, I have some with 9800 mAh.. "amaaazingg"
Thanks for watching Pete! Please share.
its like saying: our 5 gallon bottle now comes with 7 gallons inside!!!!
When I was looking for that type of battery, I did not know all this. So a started looking in their catalog for the most "powerrr" per buck.
So now I have different colored (types and capacities) batteries in a drawer, that all last about the same. Strangely enough some feel heavier / lighter than others.
Thanks electronicNmore,
JP jay It's "amaaaazing", like magic :-)
@@RealButcher Added sand might be the explanation for some being heavier despite the same, low, capacity
Great video can u compare this cell to Samsung 21700 40t and molical 21700 p42a pls appreciate it
I'll check it out, if it's a big seller, I'll make a video. Thanks
@@electronicsNmore yes sure it is...
The 0 at the end means it is a cylinder
I wonder why Tesla dropped the last digit. 2170. Thanks for watching!
what voltage is it best to measure internal resistance at?
Any level, the IR is fairly flat for lithium ion cells, but possibly a little lower at a full charge.
@@electronicsNmore
www.researchgate.net/publication/280553588_Electric_Vehicle_Li-Ion_Battery_Evaluation_Based_on_Internal_Resistance_Analysis
it looks like 0-20% SOC and 90-100% SOC has much higher internal resistance. I'm seriously considering buying these cells, just wanted to make sure you measured IR at a proper SOC.
Not according to other sources......
res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/energies/energies-10-01284/article_deploy/energies-10-01284.pdf
Page 4. Lowest IR is arong 80-90%, Highest around 0-20% SOC. I saw this a few places.
Why are the cells rond and not hexagonal? Like bees cells,no waste of room
True. I guess it would be harder to produce(more costly). Thanks for watching!
96% of rated capacity? Were these new cells?
Yes, new. They're rarely exact. Some higher, some lower
the cells are limited by the BMS anyway. Without a wattmeter you dont really know how many wh they hold - the watts will vary due to discharge voltage. I seem to recall the true kwh capacity of a Model 3 LR pack is 85kwh or smth (which is obviously not achievable due to to the selfimposed limitations bringing the pack down to 78.8kwh on delivery)
@@kingprone7846 The software also holds some battery charge in reserve. A Tesla will typically drive another 20 miles in limp mode after the charge state shows as zero before the vehicle shuts down and refuses to proceed.
@@surferdude4487 not completely true, for the range meter the car takes the reserve into account at 100%. for the rated range meter it does not but essentially bottom 4.5% are reserved.
@@surferdude4487 also for the kwh displayed by the BMS this includes the buffer. So i.e. with a new car the 78.8kwh include the buffer.
Do a 4670 one too 😁
How about a 100720? LOL
@@electronicsNmore *4680 of Tesla. The newer one that's going to go into model Y first at giga Berlin. See if you can get hold of it 😁
@@crazydrifter13 I wish. That's a large cell 46mm x 80mm
3x $ 18650 for 30% more performance
You're not buying a panasonic 18650B for $2. With the code provided, it's $5.40/ea. Post a link please. Thanks for watching!
Except for the Panasonic 3,600 mah NCR18650G
Yes, even those test a little lower.
5:50
There are LG 3.600 cells.
But they normaly are only about 3300
The highest capacity 18650's I've tested are in the 3400mAh range. Thanks for watching!
electronicsNmore yes, but the 3600 lg cells are no fake cells.
I had 1 LG cell with 3.470
Like I said, anything above 3500. It's an excellent guideline.
Tesla cells don't have shrink wrap on them. These are not Tesla Model 3 cells. Edit: Apparently I was wrong.
The company bought a new Tesla Model 3 battery module, then they carefully extracted each cell from the pack, tested them, capped each cell, them wrapped them according to what they are. These are genuine cells. I saw the process.
@@electronicsNmore Thanks for the information.
I thought lithium ion cells weren`t supposed to be discharged below 3v that it causes damage to the cell? Why would electric car batterys be made like this with thousands of little cells, it just adds a lot of complexity an weight to the vehicle? I would of thought they would be more like RC batteries only bigger.
Just a guideline to be safe. Many lithium-ion cells use 2.5V as the lowest discharge voltage. Thanks for watching!
Tesla used 18650 cells from the beginning on because they were available in volumes. Tesla then developed a very good solution for temperature managment which is perfectly suited for the smaller cells, so that each cell can be cooled or heated better than the bigger prismatic oder pouch cells. The additional weight maybe a small disadvantage.
Cylindrical aren't that bad in weight/energy. They can be easier air cooled than the other formats. Prismatic are heavier and more expensive per Wh, but easier to work with. Pouch is lighter, but harder to cool and can be problematic with expansion.
With your rigorous testing methodology, a company would have to either be extremely confident in their product, or be very delusional...lol.
Thanks for watching! Please share the video link with others.
electronicsNmore - Shared on Facebook & Pinterest.
Very much appreciated!
why didn't you run a timer so everyone could have seen the time-lapse of it discharging? use a timer next, please. Thank you.
dont i feel stupid if i would have kept watching. lmmfao.
Hi could you help me with purchasing if possible in india
no! max amount of 18650 is 3600 mah and its not necessary that 3500mah is fake!
Many say 3600, but they test slightly lower. Don't be a pedant. The 3500 mah is REAL. I did a capacity test.
at least 0.4 V drop / 10 Amps = 40 mO internal resistance.
Wires also result in losses. The tester used to measure IR was very accurate.
QUIT putting the ads in the middle of the video! Put them either BEFORE or AFTER the video NOT in the middle! It cuts off part of the content you’re trying to hear from the video.
Having a bad day? Sure sounds like it. LOL Unless you haven't been watching YT videos much, every channel uses multiple ads when over 10 mins long.
Now we need to wait 2 years and the 21700 cells will be cheaper 🙄
Prices should drop in time. Thanks for watching!
Do you sell the 21700 cells? I am building an electric recumbent reverse trike. If you are not a sales outlet, could you send me an affordable, reliable contact? Thanks
You can purchase the 2170 batteries here: bigbattery.com/product/bigbattery-model-3-2170-cells-w-cap-box-of-25/ref/19/
Hello Bentley. I posted a link in the video description area. These are real Tesla 2170 cells. Thanks for watching!
You mean lg m36 is fake?
The rating isn't 3600, more like 3450-3500.
There seem to be fakes going around now. Pretty sure I got a batch.
You need to buy from a reputable source. I provided a link in the video description area to where I got mine.
Tesla Model 3 Lithium-Ion 21700 / "2170" Cells Put To The Test!
th-cam.com/video/1HXkicLOuYU/w-d-xo.html
this is a poor method of measuring capacity
Whatever you say. LOL
I wish you didn't test batteries. They're so boring and time consuming. Now I'm sleepy
It takes time, and if I skip through the testing, people will complain that I'm hiding something. Can't win.
@@electronicsNmore What I'm trying to say is not make a video on testing or rating consumables like batteries. So many people already do that. You do things that are different, a niche that needs filling and without much competition. Thanks for your time.
There not Tesla cells CLICKBAIT!
How old are you? 5. LOL. They sure are. Learn to keep your mouth closed unless you know what you're talking about.
Gary, they sure are! Take a look at our de-manufacturing video showing how these cells go from its original pack form to individual cell form here: th-cam.com/video/ckhjYMAE9yg/w-d-xo.html
Talk less, test and report more.
I think you need to watch another channel, because I only upload highly detailed, and very well explained videos. I do it purposely to avoid unnecessary questions by viewers. Things will stay exactly as they are. Sadly, many people have ADD/ADHD, but they blame me for their condition.