German Presentation Grade Lionhead Artillery Officers Sabre
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- I guarantee I messed up my German pronunciation in this video.
Awarded for long service between 1884 to 1937, this interwar lionhead artillery officers sabre features a double etched, nickel coated blade with a pair of blued panels, one showing an artillery train and the other showing the date of presenation. It has initials (GL) on the hilt, and rubies for eyes.
This example was made by WKC (Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Co), a well known maker of military and dress swords up to this day.
www.wkc-solinge...
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Very interesting video.
Love the amount of detailed information you get into. Kinda reminiscent of ScholaGladiatoria´s style of content.
I've tried to combine Schola Gladiatoria's content, with Forgotten Weapons presentation format.
9:13 Solingen is the name of a city in Germany. The "g" in that name is to be pronounced like the "G" in the english word "Gun" and
not like the "G" in the english word "Gentleman".
I'm actually going to Solingen in a few months, to visit the Klingenmuseum
I use to have one, I played with it as a child. After years of enduring me mishandling it as a child, the blade, the handle and the wire broke and it was then lost when we moved places....I will never forgive myself. Mine was slightly different though. The hand guard was more closed and the handle was rather white/beige ( I think it was some kind of horn)
Cheers. Great vid. My grandfather had a similar sword, now in my mother's possession. Nice to know the history. Mine's Eisenhauer, but looks pretty similar, esp pommel is identical minus the red glass. I know it was acquired in Germany in the 1940s so I had always assumed it was WWII (and am probably very wrong), so this is neat.
Swords like that were used in WWII as well! Some but not all will have the eagle and swastika on the cross guard.
I had a similar stirrup hilted NCO saber, but i sold it to make room for more functional pieces
I just bought a Weyersberg Solingen with the Swiss cross on eBay for $350.
The guy said it was a fully functional sword.
How can I tell without doing the British Sword Standard Test?
The blade is unsharpened and to shinny to be carbon steel.
its Probly nickel plated carbon steel like 50% are the other half are just plain carbon steel
What a beauty! Must have been awesome when new.
But what about the specially featured and continous squeal in the backround very vividly presented in this video and somewhat muted in others? Always nice to have some unique ambiance that sets the tone and differentiation from other not so high class productions! But what is it?
And great many thanks for all of your videos. Came up in my feed the other day and just had to sub immediatly, and today I heard you beeing mentioned by Scolagladiatoria.And that was rather nice too. :)
Greetings from Sweden
danthefrst I'm not sure what you mean by the "specially featured squeal" in this video.
But regardless, I'm glad you like the videos, should be lots more to come in the future
I am buying one similar sword, the handle is very similar to this one but it is not exactly the same, for example at the lower part near the blade it doesn't have decoration and it doesn't have the initial name of the officer. Is it original?
I'd need to see photos to be able to help. You can email me at ipostswords@gmail.com
Gewidmet translates to "dedicated". Atleast literally speaking.
By the way: The letter "V" is in any and every German word pronounced like an "F" or a "Ph" in the english language. So had you said " Gewidmet phom Stammpersonal", you would have been completely correct.
Stammpersonal does not mean "administrative personnel". That would be "Stabspersonal". Stammpersonal simply means that the sabre´s owner was permanently part of his unit while other personnel rotated into and out of that unit. Units that run exercises or conduct basic training for example have Stammpersonal that is permanently in that unit and Personal that is not permanently there. (i.e. the soldiers that are there either to train, or to support the Stammpersonal in times where they can´t handle the workload by themselves)
I have one of these with a blue shagreen grip and very curved, stiff pipeback blade. Unfortunately it looks like one of the previous owners had it intentionally blunted.These hilts are really pretty, the backstrap on mine still has a very luminous shine from gilding. Also, I wanted to ask, is there anyone I can send it to for sharpening? Or would that be disrespecting an antique? It's in great condition and would be resilient enough for cutting, it's easily my favorite saber.
I'm not aware of anyone who specialises in sharpening antiques, but there are several people in the US who specialise in sharpening swords. Wes Beem (lonelywolfforge.weebly.com/) and Appleseed (facebook.com/appleseedcustoms/)
now my question is how much are swords like that worth ?
For the most part, not a ton. Unless they're named and dedicated to someone well known, or they're particularly high grade (pattern welded, gilt blades) they tend to be around the 300 to 600 euro mark
So these wouldn't be functional in combat I assume
Functional, yes. "Good", not really. Too flexible for very good thrusting, to light and narrow for good cutting. Fine for something like a duel, usable for the occasional cut or thrust, but mainly intended for dress
For navy officers the fake stone eyes had been in red and green colour, for representing the two directions right and left in sailors system. German military or armed persons of civilian administration no more use sabers etc., but sometimes you see such sabers in Germany. 1) In some german towns, especially such ones , which had been Reichsstädte/ Imperial Towns in HRE time, socalled ,Historische Bürgerwehren' exist. Up to about 1850 this had been realy auxillary militias to support army and police, but today this are mostly elderly men, apearing at historical events, their band is playing, the do a short march and drill show and fire a salvo of blanks. 2) In some regions of Northern Germany and Bavaria the target shooters societies/ clubs sometimes do parades, to remember the time, they had been militias. Usually only the ,officers' carry a weapon, such a saber' on parade. In Northern Germany the Shooters ( Schützen) uniform is a green jacket, a green vor black hat and white or green trousers. In Bavaria bavarian style dress with a large green hat, gray jacket and Lederhose. 3) In Catholic Bavaria there are often large religious events, visited by lots of pilgrims. Those pilgrims apperaring in goups on foot are sometimes escorted by bavarian dressed men with sabers. A relict of old days, when locals patroled the streets with sabers, to protect the pilgrims against robbers or dangerous annimals. But in PC days we have today, many priests etc. are against this tradition of saberarmed pilgrim guards.
To aid with your pronounciation of Solingen:
Its pronounced as: So ling en just in one word instead of the 3 shown,
It looks a little like a dress sword rather then meant for combat how can you tell between dress swords and combat swords?
It is a dress sword. And the line between the two is very blurry
Can you comment on "kinda" swords please, as i have one engraved "Christmas 1904" in old German script & would like to know more about the class of swords.
Kindersabel (childrens swords) were popular gifts for the children of rich officers. The "Christmas" marked ones are actually quite rare. Generally they're miniature versions of the sword the father would have had
@@IPostSwords : There is a german. Christmas Song in which are the words : ,Every year comes the childly Christ, enters every house with his ,Segen' ( don't know english word for this christian term). This ,Segen' is often accidently sung ,Säbel' or ,Sägen' ( saws) by children.
What distinguishes this from a sword that would have been presented to an NCO?
Most of the NCO's swords were "dovehead" sabres (with a plain backstrap and pommel, much like a 1796,, though less bulky). Lionheads are normally an indicator it;s for an officer.
Please ignore this comment thread.
IPostSwords seems to be right.
It was 'Gew' not 'Bew' as i will suspect in the following comment.
The words on the blade seem to be:
'Bew. vom Stammpersonal'
not 'Gew.' .
Which would mean the following:
1.:
'Bew.' (shortening of 'Bewaffnung' ) = weaponry.
2.:
'vom' = of the
3.: Stammpersonal = permanent staff
The next lines in my comment
i found the answer to myself.
As there are shops specialized in selling german parade sabres
and uniforms to the clubs i will mention.
So only read the next part if you want to know about german tradition. Unaltered comment before i found out:
also:
i think you might be right about the senior military member part.
BUT i have seen very decorated parade swords (in the style of this one)
being passed down through generations in the 'schützenvereine' (marksmen clubs/societies),
who hold their 'schützenfeste' (marksmen parades) annually at their own club and visit other clubs over the year.
these clubs were founded as a citizen militia, but were demilitarized over the centuries.
members have roles in those clubs which can relate to job or much more often, rank.
many of them have cheaper replication swords nowadays,
but there are some in wealthier clubs, or are owned by members of families with a long marksmen membership tradition (who held many titles like 'king' or 'general'),
that look rather striking.
these clubs are all about social status and hierarchy.
high status men like to show off their medals and uniform.
and their women try to dress up as pompous as possible.
(unfortunately i am not too knowledgeable about this.
just offering a possibility where that sabre might come from)
source: am a german related to long time members.
but i am myself not really invested in those clubs.
hence some lacking knowledge
for reference on the amount of sabres in those clubs i provide the following video:
th-cam.com/video/itPYCRyMtSM/w-d-xo.htmlm12s
love your videos, ipostswords. keep up the good work :)
PS: please call me out if you think i am wrong, as i too would like to learn :P
Update: i looked through some of the parades of the city in the linked video and could freezeframe golden/brazen hilted sabres with lion heads as the 'pommel'. Very much like this one.
I am fairly certain this particular example is "Gew" not "Bew", but I'll check the literature to see if there's a relevant abbreviation list. Unfortunately the script makes it hard to differentiate the letters, at least for me.
On the topic of schutzenverein, Angolia's "Swords of Germany 1900-1945" states that no single uniform or dress sidearm was characteristic of these clubs, and that the selection of a pattern was up to the purchaser, however he also states acid etched and blued sabres with regimental or battle scenes (like cavalry or artillery units) were related to the regiment of the owner, so we can assume this was for an artillery officer.
However, now that I've learnt the shooting club swords exist, I want one. Gonna have to search around for one.
On the topic of inscriptions, he states that the common themes were:
Blades with a name and unit (nope)
"In memory of service time", with the name, service years and unit (no, that's Fur Erinnerung an meine Deinstzeit)
Presentation blades from friends, family or fellow officers (possibly)
Shooting event prizes (unlikely given the artillery panel)
battlefield honors (doesn't fit with the 1937 date).
IPostSwords with the details you gave in you response to me and in the video itself, I have no doubt you are absolutely right about the origin of this particular sabre. Kudos on the elaboration. I learned something new. For that I thank you :)
Timo Matic I'm trying to find more books on the subject so we can find out exactly what the inscription means, so I'll getting back to you on that topic, because you've given me an alternate interpretation (B vs G) and now I need to research it until I have an answer
oh sweet.
my way of research was just putting the 'shortenings'
(is that the right word?)
in the searchbar of a website that specialises on those and acronyms.
i just looked at what made sense in the context and couldnt find anything good for 'Gew'.
please take everything i ever say with a grain of salt.
i am neither an expert on swords, nor military history, nor linguistics.
i wish you ggod fortune in your research :)
on the note of swords from those clubs.
many seem to get their swords from shops like the one in the following link:
www.vereinsbedarf-deitert.de/loewenkopfsaebel/?force_sid=0dokrber1ma792tds8p01n8lr6
i cannot say how many originals are owned anymore.
seems many buy replica swords.
Timo Matic abbreviation is the English term for a shortened word
My method was at first looking at a list of militaria abbreviations, then when that failed I used the translation subreddit. They suggested gewidmet based on seeing it on other gifts etc like when statues were gifted to a city
This gonna sound weird but I am an Arab and I found the exact same sword in my grandfather house 🤯
I know the Ottoman Empire used some German pattern sabres - both Lionhead and "dove"head styles - during WWI. Maybe it's one of those?
@@IPostSwords yes at the begging I said no way but then I looked closely I saw the swastika on the Handel and on the other side there is a hawk but the lion part I believe it’s missing because there is wholes for nails in the middle
The stirrup hilt was certainly not a uniquely British invention (least of all in 1796, since the 1788 pattern had a stirrup hilt too), there are examples of stirrup-hilted Polish hussar szabla as early as the 17th century.
Hussars sabres never had a stirrup hilt. They may have had a knucklebow, but it was "D" shaped, not "P" shaped like a stirrup hilt. Likewise, the 1788 does not have a stirrup hilt, just a simple knucklebow
"P" Stirrup hilt: i.imgur.com/utPKEss.jpg
"D" knucklebow: i.imgur.com/zxNiuKV.jpg
So it's not a real sword?
My grandma owns this
For sale?
80% British influenced design.
Well, any stirrup hilted sabre is necessary inspired by the 1796 light cav.
i collect bayonets what do you feel about bayonets are they good collectibles is it a very disgusting business of fake antiques all arownd the world
i love wkc a german solingen company whats your idea
i hope you will replie to this young collector that is still not a antique expert
Bayonets make very good collectables, in my mind. There are many well defined patterns, and they tend to hold value rather well due to the antique firearm market. Bayonets, unlike swords, almost always fit a specific pattern, which makes it both easier to identify fakes, and easier to identify them.
@@IPostSwords thank you for your reply❤❤❤
this helped me pretty much i can sey
what types of bayonet do you prefer do you own any? 😏
@@IPostSwords my account picture is a wkc poster by the way😁
@@goaticalahmet4263 I don't own any personally - I try to limit my collection to just swords, otherwise it'd just be too large to manage.
I used to have a range of mauser family bayonets, including german, and variants from czech and some other countries, but that was years ago
@@IPostSwords my account picture is a wkc poster by the way😁
i own a lovely (heer)dress bayonet by wkc
i would want to buy it from a local antique shop it was standing in front of the window that had a Nazi propaganda flag of since i was in the age 11 and now after 4 years i own it