ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
French Colonial Officers' Swords (Non-Regulation Swords)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มี.ค. 2022
- Looking at some French non-regulation officer's swords and comparing with British tendencies. Maxime Chouinard's article: hemamisfits.co...
Patreon & Extra Videos: / scholagladiatoria
Facebook & Twitter updates, info and fun:
/ historicalfencing
/ scholagladiato1
Schola Gladiatoria HEMA - sword fighting classes in the UK:
www.swordfight...
Matt Easton's website:
www.matt-easto...
Easton Antique Arms:
www.antique-sw...
My grandfather grew up in colonized Tunisia and he had a bodyguard who carried a sword.
What time are we talking about?
@@edi9892 1930 before the war.
@@elirantuil5003 Can you elaborate more on the sword ?
@@ramibairi5562 you have no idea how much I wish he was here for me to ask him.
From 1871, the French Armée d'Afrique and colonial troops were staffed with volunteer soldiers while mainland troops were conscripts. Officers from Lts to Cols had much more autonomy and responsabilities in the colonies, commanding independant small units "collumns". Also the native troops would fight well only under officer who led from the front, meaning they had more chance to get to close combat.
If you watch the C&Rsenal series on the firearms of the Great War there is a ongoing trend among Colonial Powers that as they developed rifles in the 19th centrury they were used for the Front Line European Troops, with older weapons moving out to the colonies.
So in the colonies they were the last to get the smaller smokeless powder cartridges (carry more ammo), and the last to get Magazine Rifles, and the last to get Enblock/Stripper clip loading rifles.
I can only imagine this may have influenced the need for more hand-to-hand engagements as well.
⁷
Oh hey, first.
Edit, after I've watched the video and Matt's reaction. You see something similar in modern armies, particularly the US, where the SOCOM units, who are allowed to customize an play with nonstandard gear a little bit more, trying out items or concepts that end up in use with standard forces. The shortening of the barrel from the M16A4 from a 20" inch barrel with iron sights to the 14" barrel and red dot sight of the M4A1 because SOCOM found it to be a handier rifle that retained some level of point accuracy out to 500 yards is the best example I can think of, but it really goes to show that if you let fighters choose their own equipment, they'll figure out what works best for their situation.
Matt, these are like nerdiest sword videos you make and I love them. I can listen to you talk about the intricacies of 19th century swords for hours.
The Toledo style blade looks fascinating from a martial arts and fantasy perspective. Nimble but still good in defense. Easy to half sword.
This makes me wonder, if it ever appeared on earlier blades, in particular longswords (probably the last few Oakshott types, then again, armor was disappearing at that time).
I just bought one, no scabbard, old reproduction made in Toledo.
Excellent video Matt. I read the attached essay with interest. I does answer the question you had about the smooth backstrap. In principle 4 he says not to put your thumb on the backstrap, but rather use a pinch grip. The smoothness is to facilitate changing hand positions (?). Perhaps a future video?
That "let me show you it's features" line dropped seamlessly in the middle of sentence took me completly by suprise, well done sir xD
Beautiful pieces! Your explanations are quite good, but I would note that your final, wonderful, sabre does not have the 1855 superior infantry officer saber model, but rather a regulation épée blade! Probably based on the 1857 NCO épée (épée de sous-officier), épée as in "smallsword" style. It makes it a highly personalized piece, a completely non-regulation or "de fantaisie" piece. Cheers!
Very interesting, thanks!
What a nifty topic! I love the aesthetic possibilities of non-regulation or ~regulation styles of personally acquired weapon, they're interesting in real life and they're great narrative and thematic devices in fiction.
08:27 if you see 19th century Greek uniforms of regular units are almost identical to the French ones, as well as terminology and jargon, even in modern day you can feel that influence i mean " tank " for example in Greek army is " arma mahis " that is literally the French term ( battle chariot) in ancient Greek .
That's because we practically borrowed their manuals and lingo for just about everything - in the mainland.
@@RaspK not only that but the original " standing" army was trained and equipped by the French while it was also full of French and other European volunteers that was mostly veterans of the Napoleonic wars 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous Yes, that's what I mean; sorry for being a little too vague about it.
@@RaspK no worries mate , the French influence on us in general is deeper than we tend to think
@@RaspK yeah.. its odd that greece, persia and some other nations.. even the us borrowed much from the french military and not the british
My thoughts on the reason french superior officers had thrust orientated straight bladed swords; is because nobility were more likely trained to fence with similar swords when growing up. Since you couldn't be seen using the same sword as commoners they gave them sabers but still taught them to use the same techniques they were familiar with. That is why they tried to have everyone fight on point with a saber instead of using mostly cuts.
I am loving this arc of videos on lately, it paints a nuanced image of all the antiques we see featured on the walls behind you. I am thinking about the lesser hand-protection in reference to the video where you mention different sword defense and how systems of fighting can make up for lack of (or smaller) handguards and the asymmetry of weaponry of engagement, when you talk about the difference in sword types, for the french superior officers. Fascinating, anyways, cheers
Would be very interesting if you like compared various fencing doctrins of Europe during the Victorian era or whatever. Like you breifly did with Britain, France and Austria here.
Really appreciated the "let me show you it's features" XD
I have that translation of the book of Col. Marey by Lieut.-Col. Henry Hamilton Maxwell, called "Memoir on Swords".
I got it thanks to you Matt, when you talked about it a few years ago.
It's in .pdf format, but I have no idea where I got it from.
It's interesting to see the opinions of people from long ago.
Ahhh. I love that taleto blade... If that's how you spell it .
Very beautiful
Toledo
I'm really loving that Toledo blade. Seems like a great design, and it would be fascinating to watch it in use. Another great video Matt!
I need to watch this 100 times !
I love non regulation swords :)
Thank you so much Matt !
about absence of the thumb placer on the french hilts. I'm have a Derue "sabre" (in fact estoc) and french chilean, both 1890th, both with a french style of grip - 1) agree probably form the Muller's manual time (1816) or earlier was popular a Muller's quarte with the thumb on the left side of the grip (we are see it for example in Derue 1885 cavalry fencing manual) but 2) with a thumb along a back a grip was stronger (for thrust as well as for cut or "cut") if you slightly shifting the thumb to the left - for this oval cross section of the grip and absence of the thumb placer more comfortable,
Great video! Actually, in the Toledo style sword, it can be read in the blade "FABRICA D TOLEDO". Is it an export blade crafted in Spain?
Yes, you sometimes also find such examples in Britain, though they were also copied in both countries.
@@scholagladiatoria thanks for the reply! Would be great to know more not only about Toledo pattern blades in the UK, but also if there was some cross-pollination between the British and Spanish military! Incredibly fond of your channel since many, many years ago :)
The French 1877 fencing manul and later Chambon in 1911 both state the sabre should be gripped in a typical thumb up the back.
Great video, it's a really interesting perspective on history.
When Sindh was conquered, the British commander sent back the simple one-word message "Peccavi," which is Latin for "I have sinned."
ok
Wonderfull elegant designs, thanks!
+1 for the Georg Sprave reference.
This is quintessential Matt Easton....Brilliant!!
“Let me show you its features!” I didn’t know you were familiar with Jörg Sprave’s Slingshot Channel!
I just left a comment about this in the original video a few weeks ago what a weird coincidence, I love the variety of non regulation French swords!
I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you know Max; I often haunt his isellswords site. just got a 1796 light cavalry sabre
Such beautiful swords!
Thank you for another really interesting video! 🙂
That was a very interesting lecture, but alas, I'm still left wondering... why didn't they checker the backstraps...?
Bought a French sword on a whim from my local antiques faire the other day. Had no idea what it was at the time. Turned out to be a sword of a superior officer of the Imperial Artillery Train and the scabbard was from the Imperial Horse artillery.
Interesting to note that in the early Olympic games the Hungarians dominated the events involving sabres.
True, although I would give an honorable mention to the Italians as both of the Nadi brothers won Olympic medals in saber fencing and because the Italian masters Italo and Giorgio Santelli helped train the Hungarians.
22:26 *chuckles in crossbow*
It seems that the « fantaisie » hilt you show is called a hilt « à la Nancy » and this style exist with symetrical hilts (mine is assembled with a curved blade). Those are heavy hilts !
Matt, have you ever made a video on why there was the move from medieval style swords to sabers within the French and English military of the time?
On the subject of why the French would possibly hold their thrusting swords sideways - holding a thrusting blade "flat" would allow it to slip between the ribs much easier?
Thanks for the video it was interesting
What was the stiffness of that Toledo blade like compared to your 1882 sword?
Typically the Toledo blades were made suprisingly flexible, while they look stiff. We sometimes hear that people back then saw that as a sign of quality. I'm curious how stiff is Matt's example, mine is the less stiff of all the sabers I own.
you mention klingenthal as origin/place of production for the french swords.
where is klingenthal? as it is a through and through german name, translating to blade valley.
Just a crazy thought, but if they didn't do backstrap checkering, maybe it had to do with the gloves they were wearing? It seems odd to me that it wouldn't be a problem for them, specially since they **really** like that point, so maybe it was fixed somewhere else?
26:10 Wise words business people and politicians hate x)
I think the high officers used their swords as weapons in duels, and they were taught to fight in the style of a rapier / small sword. Lower-ranking officers, used swords in the turmoil of battle when the instinct of "just hit" comes to the fore and all finesse is lost.
I think the next time i see omeone commenting "the french copy nobody, and nobod copies the french" on a forgotten weapons video i will link this video. 😎
(I know there are way more examples of someone copying the french, and the french copying others, but still, enough example get mentioned here that counter that statement)
What are your thoughts on the American USMC current NCO sword and the officer's Mamaluke? We are the last branch to have an sword in the US. They are not issued but many of us buy our "regulation NCO Swords." Thoughts on the weapon? Oh is it a spadroon?
Nvm found your video on it from 7 years ago. Guess they really are just decoration now. damn shame.
@@erickillough6476 My dear Devil-dog,
Decorative is as decorative does. Much like a group of young Marines in dress blues, they are decorative until needed for their designed purpose... If made of good material and sharp they will do the job. (Applies to the sword as well.)
Take it from a Bomber-Boy who lived in a USAF under the Fighter-Mafia, sexy only goes so far. There was a reason Centcom wanted 24/7 heavy bomber coverage in country.
What do you think of these more modern swords, like the 1912 cavalry pattern you showed? That steel looks really kind of flimsy. Really thin stuff. Do you think that would work for an actual sword/halbard/bayonette on sword combat setting?
They are very attractive blades. I could get very interested in them.
At the base of the knucklebow, toward the back, there is a hole. Is that for a decoration or a wrist strap?
A sword knot/strap.
Back and forth between french and english, dat's the rule for sure! disentangling who's the firston something would be a huge backward task...
On the subject of non-regulation swrods, is there enough information and examples of non-regulation swords or privately purchased swords used by enlisted soldiers and cavalry troopers. I know that enlisted personnel were issued their swords but are there examples of say, a long serving NCO who save up their money or were gifted a custom sword
And on the subject of swrods not being used as much in Europe and the US. The 7th Cavalry under Custer at the Battle of the Little Bighirn (aka Custer's Last Stand) did not bring their swords with them on that campaign. Custer had his men leave them behind back at the first because he thought they were too noisy.
When you are doing battle with opponents equipped with lever action rifles swords are of limited use. In the Apache campaigns swords were seldom used as the Apache didn't attack melee style.
Is there a particular reason or sense that you have gathered for why the french military was so influential in the mid 1800s?
I mean, I understand napoleon, but I usually think of british military dominance durring the next 50 years time. Where there any engagements that gave France an “esprit de corp” during this time? my mid century fench history isnt quite up there.
Despite the fall of Bonaparte in 1815, the french army remained the most powerful in Europe per quality of troops, innovations and actual wars fought between 1815 and 1870.
A smooth invasion of Spain in 1823, the (then) largest amphibious invasion in history in Algiers in 1830, decisive interventions in favour of independentist european nations (Greece 1827/1833, Belgium 1832, Italy 1859), a remarquable conduct during the grim crimean war and a spectacular growth of the overall colonial empire.
Dozens of countries in that time asked for military missions to shape their armies "french style" in uniforms, doctrine or weapons.
It gives a hint of how influencial the french martial capacities were and why the franco german war of 1870 was such a deep trauma for the whole nation.
@@peletsoivre9110 Thank you for the information! I wasnt as generally aware of the social impact of those engagements. Though I felt like there was a sense that the french where pretty weighed down (as were most) in the crimean war.
Anyways, thanks I think that makes the influence more understandable. Because again, you do see very french inspired armies in the rising powers of the US and Japan.
I think the British hegemony was more Maritime and Colonial, given its insular geopolitical situation. However, despite the end result of the Napoleonic Wars, France was still seen as the major Continental Force, until the Germans took over in 1871.
I like the idea a straight sword for higher level officers because I suspect its chief function is pointing at things and I don't want to be confused which direction they mean.
Great stuff. Really enjoyed that. Is there a French equivalent of Kinsey…I suppose a ‘Swordsmen of the French Empire / Republic’ ? That would be an interesting read! 👍🤔
Unfortunately not - if there were, I'd definitely want it!
White brass, aka German Silver, (if the nickel content is right). For some reason, I doubt the French called it that.
Those baguettes look really strange.
Was it Barney Halleck who said “there is no artistry in killing with the point “ ?
That's"Gurney" Halleck, a la "Dune". Yes, nerd.
@@jackrice2770 Not enough of one obviously! but it has been 30 years.
can you do a historical accounts video about the sikh warriors they looked pretty cool
Marray Moe-ng. Please stop calling him Mary.
I really like your comment, particularly the bit that says “translate to English” !
A video about Highwaymen would be neat - if you're able to separate the facts from the fiction
French officers sword? Hmmmm...
Non-regulation? Yyyeeeeessssss please :D
I have always wondered... Isn't American arms quite rare.. and hard to come by... Especially in beautiful condition
Huh. That is weird. I wonder if they didn't talk to each other much?
Foucault's boomerang
But Ian said “nobody copies the French and the French copy nobody” maybe that only pertains to firearms? lol
Damn trying to find out what sword would be accurate for Quebecois settlers
in north america in in general in the 17th and 18th century hangers were common
A spadoon is better x
Is it even allowed these days to talk about colonialism without utter spite?
Why no extra grip texture? Lets look at French traffic circles and general driving to see a rich history of nonsense.
+scholagladiatoria *The **_deutſches Kaiſerreich_** (DEU) of the latter 19th Century had overseas colonies in West Africa.*
Regarding the grip, a lot of french officer swords actually had all-around grip, like this one: www.proantic.com/en/display.php?id=697761