You could say Vader did his job by the rule of two. He trained his apprentice to be stronger than him. It’s kinda like how you try to raise your children to do better than you
That’s why Vader was a better Sith Lord than Sidious. Vader cared about the Rule of Two, while Sidious didn’t. Sidious was only out for himself and often held back knowledge from his apprentices. Sidious was the worse type of apprentice as his ego and selfishness ultimately destroyed the Bane lineage. 🤔
I be kinda surpsring if he wasn't stronger. Ahsoka was pretty stronge too. both of them were trained by the chosen one. Anakin was a good teacher. Hell if he lived there no telling what he could have molded Luke and Leia into and eventually Ben and Rey.
@@Tifa_BatchellerIt made a ton of sense. Vader did always resent himself and wanted to die, but refused to off himself since he felt undeserving of such mercy. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vader partially somewhat hoped Starkiller would surpass him and end him.
That kinda depends on which interpretation you prefer. In one hand there are statements that his loss of organic tissue weakened his connection to the force, on the other hand there are multiple sources and examples of sith especially growing even stronger in the force despite loss of organic tissue. I like to think it’s a bit of both, whereas losing his limbs wouldn’t affect him as much if he was more dedicated to the secrets and mysteries of the force, but he just didn’t have the right mentality. Sidious even makes similar statements that Vader’s greatest weakness is his mindset.
@@Wolfaydragoon That's really cool, it also makes a lot of sense. I think what might have helped him not reach too high a potential as we would have liked, circles back to Sidious probably didn't teach Vader every Sith technique. Even if Sidious wanted to, bringing back Padame was the only thing Vader wanted. Anything else likely would have gone in one ear and out the other, imo
@@WolfofSid64 yeah, it’s also kind of funny because Sidious said something very similar. In the book of monsters, I believe, where he covers Vader as his monster he admits that he should have made Vader develop more of a sith mindset. Every time he tried to encourage it subtly, Vader would completely miss the point like when he was given malgus’ journal.
@@Wolfaydragoon Makes sense, Anakin was always straight forward and direct. So it stands to reason why he wouldn't pick up on Sidious' hints too well. On top of that Anakin was very immature and didn't care too much about anything outside of his own personal goals. I don't think he ever actually really cared about being a Sith, it was just a means to an end
Honestly if Luke can beat Vader in Ep 6 with 1 year of of screen training after losing once to Vader and just barely tapping the Dark Side, it’s not hard to believe Starkiller can, he’s spent most of his life honing his skills and immersing in the Dark Side, his weakness though being saber duels, but by the time he actually fights Vader he’s already sparred with him a decent bit, likely familiar with Vader’s style, but not knowing how to fight him. But he’s already fought by this time diverse opponents in Rahm Kota, Kazdan Paratus, Shaak Ti, Darths Phobos and Decimus, his father, Maris Brood, a decent number of melee opponents. And he’s in time learned Jedi techniques from Kota, likely changing to a more focused calmer rage type of style.
Lightning, Vader has two weakness, Lightning and his family. This has been canon since 2000s Vader cannot use force lightning or it would mess with his suit, he’s also not fully committed to the darkside.
Except that Vader TRAINED Galen... So Galen KNOWS HOW his former Master thinks, acts an even how he fights an moves. If it's ONE thing Vader/Anakin KNOWS how to do apparently as good as Tech an Piloting it's TRAIN seriously tough an dangerous melee fighters. An this is apparently on either side of the Force. Since he trained Galen as a Sith an Askoka as a Jedi an they BOTH proved to be nightmares an serious issues for anyone that got on they bad side literally kicking whole star systems full of ass. An ravaging whole small armies by themselves. This WAS a danger in our Reality too an even sometimes to present day for some Martial Arts Masters. When you train someone to fight an be able to do things like THIS stuff it's possible to train TRULY someone gifted as a fighter. An think with Askoka an Galen not only did something like this happen twice BUT Anakin/Vader had a real knack for teaching combative arts too apparently. Wonder IF back as a Jedi the Order noticed Anakin might be a fitting teacher too an saddled him with his OWN apprentice an appointed him as someone's actual Master.
I mean, you could have just said "because Starkiller is the player character and the player needs to feel powerful and cool" but i love that you try to rationalize an in universe explanation.
Force Unleashed games were incredible in their day, tried to replay them recently, they didn’t hold up as well as I’d thought. Although, if you could use your powers to launch Ewoks and Wookies off a cliff in newer games, that would be great
When I played TFU for the first time I was surprised when Vader's heath bar appeared at the bottom of the screen, not expecting to fight Vader in the same boss fashion as those who previously fell to Galen's blade. After I had actually defeated Vader, I was still surprised yet concluded after a lifetime of learning from his master, years of doing the Dark Lord's dirty work, and his reconstruction on the Empirical, Galen had finally outgrown his master in skill, strength and determination. In the novel, Galen had been granted greater strength from physical reconstruction on the Empirical, no longer a character Vader could easily off balance with a good shunt block. Multiple sparring sessions had granted Marek insight into Vader's technique, even adding Shien to his own style, unlike the half decent Jedi still expecting results against Vader with Ataru. After fighting armies and ending real Jedi, Starkiller mused how he outgrew proxy's training simulations, the real touch had given him new resolve. Also, Starkiller was one of the few 'Jedi' of his time to practice Juyo, quick and rapid attacks to exploit lapses in defense as in when Vader had his grill sliced. I don't subscribe to the version of 'Vader had a head cold at the time then recovered when he faced Luke' I honestly think Vader was fairly defeated by one of the few opponents who knew how to defeat him, because Starkiller had suffered and literally died seeing too much of how the Dark Lord operated. Seriously, Vader was an enigma under the mask to the few who actually interacted with him, Starkiller was one of the few interacted with the machine man on a regular basis. I realize this looks like a Galen Marek respect thread at this point.....guilty........it's the stance I've taken since 2008 because this story is dear to me. I don't think Marek was superior from start to finish, I think he was uniquely qualified by the life he lived to "Conquer Vader." Marek's training was atypical even from Sith standards, thanks to Vader's method of training which I think reflects well on him.
I never really thought of Darth Vader as being weak against Starkiller. I just figured that Starkiller was so powerful that Darth Vader looked weaker by comparison since both of Starkiller's parents were Jedi. It's kind of like how a lot of people would look stupid next to Albert Einstein, but that doesn't mean they are objectively dumb on their own.
Perhaps Vader deep down truly did care for Starkiller, and as much as Vader denies it he is still Anakin, a man who care for his friends and love ones. Vader raise Starkiller as a weapon to overthrow Palpatine, and let that sink in, he believed that Starkiller will be powerful enough to actually challenge the Emperor, and that is a feat that probably drawn out a lot of pride within Vader, which is something to remember that Vader perhaps wanted to create a new bond to remind him of better times.
except vader still sides with the emperor each time he has a chance to use starkiller to overthrow the emperor he even tells starkiller that he never had any true intentions of overthrowing the emperor with him. he only ever saw starkiller as a weapon and the moment vaders weapon wasnt up to his standards he tried having starkiller killed. vaders mistake was training starkiller so well
It's hard to not see the kid as a surrogate son considering that he raised and trained Galen/Star Killer. He likely did care for Galen, but not as much as his own son, Luke. He likely cared for Galen as much as Darth Bane cared for his apprentice.
Pretty sure it just says he underestimated him in the first game and in the second game he did not plus he had time to grow in power and he knew what to expect even from the clone yet he was beaten due to his suit’s weakness to lightning even tho he won the force clash beforehand.
@ read The Force Unleashed 2 Novel, Vader lost only because he was distracted and that same novel states the Galen Marek Clone was actually stronger than the first Galen Marek.
@@TheMightOfGeburah Yeah I know the clone is stronger I never said he wasn’t I just said Vader gets stronger as well cuz his peak is in RotJ. I remember it says he underestimated him and that’s why he lost, but either way he did not hold back. Also just realize who you are Eww lol
@ A known Sonic wanker the worst fanboy for sonic, he is very dishonest and stretches everything he can find to get him to be one of the strongest characters ever like High Outer and higher type shit, plus he’s pretty sus with pedo like comments and tastes like saying he wants to get a woman who looks like a child so it’s legal or something like that lol Godzilla King of the Monsters or Kotm did a few community posts on this guy.
Because he's a walking power fantasy video game character. End of story. Trying to make up a canon explanation for it will never add up unless we just claim that Vader wasn't trying.
This is why I personally don't think Starkiller should be brought into canon. He's just too powerful to have zero mentions and no influence on what stories we already had. If they tried to bring him in, they'd most likely have to weaken him significantly and completely change his story, which I feel would be a total disservice to his character.
ESB Vader vs Starkiller would be a perfect draw, comparing all strengths and weaknesses. And then, after a titanic battle pushing them to their limits and beyond, Vader's cybernetics would disintegrate and he would die. SK would survive but severely injured, perhaps even needing cybernetics of his own for the rest of his life.
One idea I’d love if they somehow would make Starkiller canon and keep his skill from the games, is have him be the reincarnation of the Son from Mortis, both are naturally gifted in the Dark Side, sound similar, use Force Lightning a lot, are very quick to anger and emotional outbursts, have father issues, and would be a gif explanation for Starkiller’s power level. Can act as a way of redeeming the Son, like how the Daughter died and either lives on through Ahsoka, or reincarnated as that bird that follows her around, you’d also have that great dichotomy of Ahsoka and Starkiller being Vader’s apprentices, her for Anakin and him Vader. And the odd nature of the reincarnation if the games are recanonized then the odd nature of it can explain why his clone had all his memories, as a way to let him live on.
You touched upon another, secondary reason what Vader was struggling. The nature of the Dark Side itself. As you have said before Dooku was feeling every one of his circa 70 years of age because the Dark Side consumes and depletes it's users. Combine that with the limitations placed upon him by his injuries AND his armor and you have a recipe for a much diminished Vader.
i feel that in both instances, Galen Marek/Starkiller won both duels with Vader on a technicality. In Marek's case, he had to resort to trickery to lower Vader's guard down as in the novel, both were nearly stalemated with Vader almost getting upper hand. In Starkiller's case, likewise had to resort to trickery as he played on Vader's desire to keep him alive, and then just blasted him with augmented Force Lightning
4:31 I'm pretty sure Vader being slow against Obi-Wan was explained(before the Kenobi show) that this is the first time they've met in years and yet Obi-Wan seems so sure of himself, calm and collected. So instead of trying to brute force it like he did on Mustafar, Vader was going to take it slow. Despite the fact he's had years of killing Jedi, he's still cautious when fighting Obi-Wan.
It is less about Vader being weak and more about Starkiller having basically every advantage on his side. Not only is he the child of two force sensitive individuals which more often than not means that you are going to have a pretty strong connection to the force but he had the added benefit of receiving an insanely brutal training from Vader, even before they started training Vader often brake his bones and starved him for days. Vader’s training methods were extremely brutal because he knew that Starkiller had immense potential and he wanted to squeeze every drop of it out. This training not only allowed Starkiller to constantly push his limits but it gave him the advantage of being familiar with how Vader fights, if that wasn’t enough Starkiller also happens to be extremely talented with force lightning, which is Vader’s weakness due to his cybernetics. The reason Palpatine even gave him those cybernetics was because they were sensitive to force lighting. So basically Vader was up against someone with insane potential who has been constantly pushing his limits for years, knows him and his fighting style and is really good using the force power that is his greatest weakness.
When mentioning his age plus the injury/burns from Mustafar, It makes sense that Vader would be weaker after dawning the suit. If he was Anakin and wasn't burned after losing his limbs, He would've been way stronger outside the suit despite he would've had to been using cybernetics on all 4 limbs. I remembered there was a jedi that was actually cybernetic for most of his body.
It's worth noting that Vader essentially raised Galen. And thus, though he may not have realized it himself, Vader may have developed a twisted sense of fatherly love for him and simply couldn't bring himself to use his full power against him.
There's also the fact that the canon version of Vader is actually stronger than the one from the Force Unleashed/Legends. Especially how the suits between the two are very different
@AnonTDegenerate While I'm not sure about which is weaker overall, I do know Vader is stronger in canon over Legends, a lot of Vader's issues in Canon are mental rather than physical as it is in Legends
I thought Force Unleashed was it's own universe, separate from Legends and Canon. Starkiller is so strong because he is the player, but still I'd like to think a Vader from Ep4 should be able to take him down. He isn't as conflicted, and Lightning as a counter to Vader is possible to be dealt with - either by blocking with the lightsaber or by using something (a stormtrooper perhaps) to block it for you by pulling them with the force. You could have a debate with Mr.Theory in the podcast next time you gather.
Hard to say who'd win it depends if galen could grow close enough to palpatine. If starkiller is more powerful than his original self then he should be closer to reaching palpatines level. And if the quote from george lucas still applies then even if starkiller exceeds the percentage of being closer to palptine then he still struggles. If starkiller ends up as 90% of palpatine to vaders 80 then he does have an advantage but still struggles blade to blade hed really have to use his strikes to wear vader down in tandem with his lightning to reliably secure a win or survive.
I always get a good laugh at every video that I've ever seen when the Obi-Wan vs Vader fight is mentioned from A New Hope. Everyone loves to come up with some weird fictional reason as to why that lightsaber dual sucked so much instead of just admitting like George Lucas did. The dual was slow and not exciting because it was the first lightsaber fight ever filmed, Sir Alec Guinness was old, and the Vader suit was heavy and cumbersome. I get that the narrative has to fit everyone's story, but it's just funny to hear the excuses instead of the truth, because it always comes across as if the person narrating the video believes that this is all real.
I think if empire strikes back Vader fought Starkiller I think it would be a closer fight do to the fact that When Vader knows about Luke his power grew and I believe it would give him the much needed power to take out Starkiller so in that aspect I believe it would be a closer fight. But great question.
Because it’s a video game and it fits the theme of the game to fight and beat vader and palpatine. You’re supposed to be powerful. It doesn’t matter lorewise because this isnt cannon. Also, in the cancelled tfu3 he was supposed to be stronger because he was holding back once again because he was supposed to be the antagonist of the game and a bigger threat.
The thing is many people do not know the force unleased 3 had vader using his full power and beating star killer but disney canned it it was a open world game 😢😢
I break it down like this.There's a difference between hatred and anger.Darth vader feels hatred that has dolled over the years While starkiller is angry at his current situation, that he is in right now.
Starkiller is so powerful that when he invaded the land he thought the force was strong on some elderly man like Yoda unbeknownst that it was a toddler
Force lightning, all you had to say, because starkiller was the only other person in the galaxy at the time who could use it, and Vaders suit was designed to be weak to it
True but it's not like an instant win. He knows how to insulate himself and block it sorta. Not including the fact that he can survive without his suit to an extent
@@AnonTDegenerate yet he doesn't know how to block lightning with his lightsaber lmao even in comics he has never tried to block lightning with his lightsaber once
@@OmnipulsarIs that done often, or was it mostly Windu's thing? I honestly don't remember 😅 Windy had a unique fighting technique though, if he was the only one to do it
@AnonTDegenerate when? He never blocked Palpatine he took the hit, but fair it's not an instant win, but it's a huge problem for him, and that's Palpatines fault
Vader from Empire Strikes back would lose to Starkiller. But the Apprentice would need to escape after their battle, and a promise to keep Juno safe would be good enough I think to keep Starkiller away, and away from telling everyone about his loss. If Vader loses though, many fans would be happy, others would be upset. But this will happen with anything. If Vader loses but survives, it can still make sense with the plotline. If Starkiller dies, this makes very little sense, as wasn’t he supposed to be Palpatines true apprentice eventually on a certain level? Meaning he was supposed to have greater potential, due to being trained by them both from a certain standpoint. Maybe I’m wrong, but greater potential+prime>slightly less potential but more power+ not nearly at prime and nerfed to me
What if Anakin at full power/Potential {Arguably his appearance in Ashoka} Fought Galen or his clone? How would such a duel play out if Galen/Star Killer was pulled into the World between Worlds? Would Anakin dominate Galen like he did to Ashoka?
@ I’m talking cannon. Plot armor with the movies, if the dark side ending were to be true in the FU games then movies 4, 5, and 6 would not exist. Which is why I said plot armor is what saves Vader
@@da9_dex Yes, that's why I said that this doesn't apply to the dark side ending. I'm not denying what you said, I'm just adding that in the alternate ending Vader loses all plot armor. Not to mention all the other characters affected in the alternate timelines events afterwards.
Vader wasn't so weak against Starkiller. He tried to capture Starkiller on many occasions that they fought. Vader also trained Starkiller to overcome any battlefield conditions except Vader himself. Starkiller also was not that powerful in comparison to Vader, but able to contend with him many times they fought because of these fights being somewhat situational where factors stacked in Starkiller's favor.
Vader is the only power house. He was a child of the force . Literally. This is new kids hating the old guard . I think they missed the mark with Vader . This is the problem when movie writers do something and not a Book author story teller . Could you imagine George RR Martin with this series .
Does anyone also think that the loss of Vader's organics after his doomed fight in ROTS reduced his power in the Force? I don't know if everyone is on board with mitichlorian cannon from the prequels or not. If so, holy crap is Vader strong! If not, it's more a matter of will and expanding repertoire to include some kind of Sith regeneration. I dunno but fun to consider.
if u follow the story u'd notice vader was more concern in finding the remaining jedis with this newborn turnt sith jedi son that he found than actually stopping an uncontrollable threat Proving vader had every thing under control
Galen Marek was The Unleashed Force. He was not constrained by Light Side...& as far as we know, he wasn't aware that a difference existed between the two sides. He was taught hate from the best in the business. He was encouraged to be guided by impulse and was free to use his entire body to harness the full power of The Force. He learned redemption from a Jedi but not before displaying a power Yoda had not yet or since. th-cam.com/video/Mg8U2-Ry1vY/w-d-xo.html Today's Special - ANDOR
Lightning. Starkiller had the ability to use force lighting almost to the same degree that emperor palpating did. It’s why when you fight palpatine your going blow for blow with the lightning attacks against each other.
I wonder what the original trilogy wouldve been like had inquisitor replacing vader since hes the closest to being the best successor. Force Destruction is also the best ability
That would depend on why he was fighting if he was fighting for some thing he loved and was using his hate for it. He would win otherwise, if it was the other way around, the other guy would win.
Maybe Starkiller is just an overpowered (compared to any other star wars content) video game character. Sorry just think of it as an alternate timeline if that makes you feel better.
I’m a little confused because I thought Vader’s cybernetics significantly slowed the sped up aging process that is to be expected from users of the Darkside. Now you’re saying his injuries were speeding up his aging? I need clarification.
It's such a Shame that there was never going to be a 3rd "Star Wars: Force Unleashed" Installment even before when Disney acquired the License, The 1st Game was pretty Good 👍, but the 2nd Game is Mediocre Average 👎, there was still enough breathing Room for Improvements in a Potential 3rd Game but sadly was never Planned to ever Happened due to poor Reception the 2nd Game had Received, and thus it pretty much killed a supposedly Game Series within an Iconic Franchise.
This is completely true. Vader's body started to weak. His injuries,battles with StarKiller,everything. That's why he was slow against Obi-Wan. I don't think Vader from Empire Strikes Back would change much. It would be great battle,but I think Starkiller would come on top. May the Force be with you too😊
It's simple, Darth Vader lost about 75 percent of his original potential. Starkiller, master of forms 1, 3, and 7 makes him a very powerful, fast, and VERY unpredictable duelist
They should bring star killer back but make it so he defeats vader only once. Vader comes back similar how darth mual did, through hate. He kills star killer in the end in his 2nd duel... Just my opinion.
i don’t really like starkiller’s character. the reason he defeats vader it’s cause that’s the point of the game. defeating the big villain boss vader and make the game fun and stunning by making starkiller do powerful stuff so people would get excited for playing it. vader is the GOAT and in reality a random force sensitive person will never even match vader
I am not a fan of star killer. I don’t like this, god modded ideal apprentice of Darth Vader that simply overpowers and out classes Vader in every way making Darth Vader look like an inquisitor, and star killer look like the Sith Lord who’s on par with Darth Sidious. Outside of Luke Skywalker, no other character should ever over shadow Anakin Skywalker in anyway in my opinion while in the Skywalker story.
Personally, while I adore Sam Witwer in the role and as actor overall, Starkiller is just kinda bland as a character. There's nothing particularly interesting about him other than his power/skill, and even that is kinda boring since it largely due to just being naturally gifted, more so than even Anakin was at his age. Which just feels like middle school ideas gone wild. "And then Vader kills this jedi after mowing down an army of wookies, and then this jedis son like force pulls Vaders saber out of his hands! And then like it'd be so cool if Vader made him a secret apprentice, he gets super strong and then beats Vader AND PALPATINE BACK TO BACK. Also he has a big dick and fucks the hot pilot girl and he's got s robot that can become other Jedi and Sith and is just as strong as them and and and".
I kinda had a suspicion when it came out that force unleashed took place in a universe with exaggerated force powers, not canon simply because of what the title implies
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
You could say Vader did his job by the rule of two. He trained his apprentice to be stronger than him. It’s kinda like how you try to raise your children to do better than you
That’s why Vader was a better Sith Lord than Sidious. Vader cared about the Rule of Two, while Sidious didn’t. Sidious was only out for himself and often held back knowledge from his apprentices. Sidious was the worse type of apprentice as his ego and selfishness ultimately destroyed the Bane lineage. 🤔
I be kinda surpsring if he wasn't stronger. Ahsoka was pretty stronge too. both of them were trained by the chosen one. Anakin was a good teacher. Hell if he lived there no telling what he could have molded Luke and Leia into and eventually Ben and Rey.
@@Tifa_BatchellerIt made a ton of sense. Vader did always resent himself and wanted to die, but refused to off himself since he felt undeserving of such mercy. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vader partially somewhat hoped Starkiller would surpass him and end him.
The problem is he wasn't stronger in the books he don't even come close
Cringe❗
“I will kill you to set you free “ Galen Meric to Darth Vader Force Unleashed 1 novelization
It also doesn't help that Vader lost all four limbs, thus diminishing his connection to the Force by a severe margin
That kinda depends on which interpretation you prefer.
In one hand there are statements that his loss of organic tissue weakened his connection to the force, on the other hand there are multiple sources and examples of sith especially growing even stronger in the force despite loss of organic tissue.
I like to think it’s a bit of both, whereas losing his limbs wouldn’t affect him as much if he was more dedicated to the secrets and mysteries of the force, but he just didn’t have the right mentality. Sidious even makes similar statements that Vader’s greatest weakness is his mindset.
@@Wolfaydragoon That's really cool, it also makes a lot of sense. I think what might have helped him not reach too high a potential as we would have liked, circles back to Sidious probably didn't teach Vader every Sith technique. Even if Sidious wanted to, bringing back Padame was the only thing Vader wanted. Anything else likely would have gone in one ear and out the other, imo
@@WolfofSid64 yeah, it’s also kind of funny because Sidious said something very similar. In the book of monsters, I believe, where he covers Vader as his monster he admits that he should have made Vader develop more of a sith mindset. Every time he tried to encourage it subtly, Vader would completely miss the point like when he was given malgus’ journal.
@@Wolfaydragoon Makes sense, Anakin was always straight forward and direct. So it stands to reason why he wouldn't pick up on Sidious' hints too well. On top of that Anakin was very immature and didn't care too much about anything outside of his own personal goals. I don't think he ever actually really cared about being a Sith, it was just a means to an end
@@WolfofSid64 NiCE GOiNG U 2 ! [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
0:27 Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Am I a joke to you?"
Vader taught starkiller his power in black force energy vader just didn't realize how much energy he gave starkiller.
I'm ded 😅😂😂
What you saying doesn't make sense
It’s obvious clone 1138 couldn’t defeat Vader but clone 1139 could. Schmalin Schmerrick.
It’s clone specific
tell me you don't understand star wars lore in one sentence, oh wait, you did @dionysisnance4204
@@CrackerBarrelkid Actually, Subject 1138 did defeat Vader.
Honestly if Luke can beat Vader in Ep 6 with 1 year of of screen training after losing once to Vader and just barely tapping the Dark Side, it’s not hard to believe Starkiller can, he’s spent most of his life honing his skills and immersing in the Dark Side, his weakness though being saber duels, but by the time he actually fights Vader he’s already sparred with him a decent bit, likely familiar with Vader’s style, but not knowing how to fight him. But he’s already fought by this time diverse opponents in Rahm Kota, Kazdan Paratus, Shaak Ti, Darths Phobos and Decimus, his father, Maris Brood, a decent number of melee opponents. And he’s in time learned Jedi techniques from Kota, likely changing to a more focused calmer rage type of style.
Lightning, Vader has two weakness, Lightning and his family.
This has been canon since 2000s
Vader cannot use force lightning or it would mess with his suit, he’s also not fully committed to the darkside.
Except that Vader TRAINED Galen... So Galen KNOWS HOW his former Master thinks, acts an even how he fights an moves. If it's ONE thing Vader/Anakin KNOWS how to do apparently as good as Tech an Piloting it's TRAIN seriously tough an dangerous melee fighters. An this is apparently on either side of the Force. Since he trained Galen as a Sith an Askoka as a Jedi an they BOTH proved to be nightmares an serious issues for anyone that got on they bad side literally kicking whole star systems full of ass. An ravaging whole small armies by themselves. This WAS a danger in our Reality too an even sometimes to present day for some Martial Arts Masters. When you train someone to fight an be able to do things like THIS stuff it's possible to train TRULY someone gifted as a fighter. An think with Askoka an Galen not only did something like this happen twice BUT Anakin/Vader had a real knack for teaching combative arts too apparently. Wonder IF back as a Jedi the Order noticed Anakin might be a fitting teacher too an saddled him with his OWN apprentice an appointed him as someone's actual Master.
I mean, you could have just said "because Starkiller is the player character and the player needs to feel powerful and cool" but i love that you try to rationalize an in universe explanation.
My thoughts exactly, but appreciate the explanation, nonetheless. 😅
Force Unleashed games were incredible in their day, tried to replay them recently, they didn’t hold up as well as I’d thought. Although, if you could use your powers to launch Ewoks and Wookies off a cliff in newer games, that would be great
When I played TFU for the first time I was surprised when Vader's heath bar appeared at the bottom of the screen, not expecting to fight Vader in the same boss fashion as those who previously fell to Galen's blade. After I had actually defeated Vader, I was still surprised yet concluded after a lifetime of learning from his master, years of doing the Dark Lord's dirty work, and his reconstruction on the Empirical, Galen had finally outgrown his master in skill, strength and determination. In the novel, Galen had been granted greater strength from physical reconstruction on the Empirical, no longer a character Vader could easily off balance with a good shunt block. Multiple sparring sessions had granted Marek insight into Vader's technique, even adding Shien to his own style, unlike the half decent Jedi still expecting results against Vader with Ataru. After fighting armies and ending real Jedi, Starkiller mused how he outgrew proxy's training simulations, the real touch had given him new resolve. Also, Starkiller was one of the few 'Jedi' of his time to practice Juyo, quick and rapid attacks to exploit lapses in defense as in when Vader had his grill sliced. I don't subscribe to the version of 'Vader had a head cold at the time then recovered when he faced Luke' I honestly think Vader was fairly defeated by one of the few opponents who knew how to defeat him, because Starkiller had suffered and literally died seeing too much of how the Dark Lord operated. Seriously, Vader was an enigma under the mask to the few who actually interacted with him, Starkiller was one of the few interacted with the machine man on a regular basis.
I realize this looks like a Galen Marek respect thread at this point.....guilty........it's the stance I've taken since 2008 because this story is dear to me. I don't think Marek was superior from start to finish, I think he was uniquely qualified by the life he lived to "Conquer Vader." Marek's training was atypical even from Sith standards, thanks to Vader's method of training which I think reflects well on him.
I never really thought of Darth Vader as being weak against Starkiller. I just figured that Starkiller was so powerful that Darth Vader looked weaker by comparison since both of Starkiller's parents were Jedi. It's kind of like how a lot of people would look stupid next to Albert Einstein, but that doesn't mean they are objectively dumb on their own.
Einstein was a fraud and most of his work was plagiarized
Super cool today, Let’s goooo!!!❤️
Just wondering if anything is on the horizon with yourself & Theory 🙏🏻
In other worlds when your master said don't try it i have the high ground you don't try it otherwise you lose all your limbs and be weakned.
Absolutely love your videos man. I listen to them while cleaning
Perhaps Vader deep down truly did care for Starkiller, and as much as Vader denies it he is still Anakin, a man who care for his friends and love ones. Vader raise Starkiller as a weapon to overthrow Palpatine, and let that sink in, he believed that Starkiller will be powerful enough to actually challenge the Emperor, and that is a feat that probably drawn out a lot of pride within Vader, which is something to remember that Vader perhaps wanted to create a new bond to remind him of better times.
Starkiller was a badass.
except vader still sides with the emperor each time he has a chance to use starkiller to overthrow the emperor he even tells starkiller that he never had any true intentions of overthrowing the emperor with him. he only ever saw starkiller as a weapon and the moment vaders weapon wasnt up to his standards he tried having starkiller killed. vaders mistake was training starkiller so well
It's hard to not see the kid as a surrogate son considering that he raised and trained Galen/Star Killer. He likely did care for Galen, but not as much as his own son, Luke. He likely cared for Galen as much as Darth Bane cared for his apprentice.
The Novels makes it pretty clear that Vader only loses to Starkiller either by being conflicted, holding back or is distracted.
Pretty sure it just says he underestimated him in the first game and in the second game he did not plus he had time to grow in power and he knew what to expect even from the clone yet he was beaten due to his suit’s weakness to lightning even tho he won the force clash beforehand.
@ read The Force Unleashed 2 Novel, Vader lost only because he was distracted and that same novel states the Galen Marek Clone was actually stronger than the first Galen Marek.
@@TheMightOfGeburah Yeah I know the clone is stronger I never said he wasn’t I just said Vader gets stronger as well cuz his peak is in RotJ.
I remember it says he underestimated him and that’s why he lost, but either way he did not hold back.
Also just realize who you are Eww lol
@@LeaderOfTheLostSouls WHO iS HE ? [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
@ A known Sonic wanker the worst fanboy for sonic, he is very dishonest and stretches everything he can find to get him to be one of the strongest characters ever like High Outer and higher type shit, plus he’s pretty sus with pedo like comments and tastes like saying he wants to get a woman who looks like a child so it’s legal or something like that lol
Godzilla King of the Monsters or Kotm did a few community posts on this guy.
I really wanted a live action movie or series of the force unleashed and your thumbnail will be the closest we will get ❤
Where did he get the thumbnail anyway
Because he's a walking power fantasy video game character. End of story. Trying to make up a canon explanation for it will never add up unless we just claim that Vader wasn't trying.
Because Force Unleashed sole purpose was to give players the ultimate power fantasy, and defeating Darth Vader was the best way to do that.
And throw Palpy around like a rag doll deflecting his own lighting back at him what a laugh! 😂
This is why I personally don't think Starkiller should be brought into canon. He's just too powerful to have zero mentions and no influence on what stories we already had. If they tried to bring him in, they'd most likely have to weaken him significantly and completely change his story, which I feel would be a total disservice to his character.
Because he’s Darth Kratos
Love to see all the recent videos on Galen/Starkiller!
I see I click!!!
Damn what a question for the finisher! Sounds like a great topic for one of those longer format debate style videos.
ESB Vader vs Starkiller would be a perfect draw, comparing all strengths and weaknesses. And then, after a titanic battle pushing them to their limits and beyond, Vader's cybernetics would disintegrate and he would die. SK would survive but severely injured, perhaps even needing cybernetics of his own for the rest of his life.
One idea I’d love if they somehow would make Starkiller canon and keep his skill from the games, is have him be the reincarnation of the Son from Mortis, both are naturally gifted in the Dark Side, sound similar, use Force Lightning a lot, are very quick to anger and emotional outbursts, have father issues, and would be a gif explanation for Starkiller’s power level. Can act as a way of redeeming the Son, like how the Daughter died and either lives on through Ahsoka, or reincarnated as that bird that follows her around, you’d also have that great dichotomy of Ahsoka and Starkiller being Vader’s apprentices, her for Anakin and him Vader. And the odd nature of the reincarnation if the games are recanonized then the odd nature of it can explain why his clone had all his memories, as a way to let him live on.
Well, they are both voiced by the same person
He's not that strong fr the games over hype how strong he is
I really miss starkiller I really wish that just make them make another game of it by no😢😊
You touched upon another, secondary reason what Vader was struggling. The nature of the Dark Side itself. As you have said before Dooku was feeling every one of his circa 70 years of age because the Dark Side consumes and depletes it's users. Combine that with the limitations placed upon him by his injuries AND his armor and you have a recipe for a much diminished Vader.
i feel that in both instances, Galen Marek/Starkiller won both duels with Vader on a technicality. In Marek's case, he had to resort to trickery to lower Vader's guard down as in the novel, both were nearly stalemated with Vader almost getting upper hand. In Starkiller's case, likewise had to resort to trickery as he played on Vader's desire to keep him alive, and then just blasted him with augmented Force Lightning
4:31 I'm pretty sure Vader being slow against Obi-Wan was explained(before the Kenobi show) that this is the first time they've met in years and yet Obi-Wan seems so sure of himself, calm and collected. So instead of trying to brute force it like he did on Mustafar, Vader was going to take it slow. Despite the fact he's had years of killing Jedi, he's still cautious when fighting Obi-Wan.
I love This Star Wars Explained videos!!
It is less about Vader being weak and more about Starkiller having basically every advantage on his side. Not only is he the child of two force sensitive individuals which more often than not means that you are going to have a pretty strong connection to the force but he had the added benefit of receiving an insanely brutal training from Vader, even before they started training Vader often brake his bones and starved him for days.
Vader’s training methods were extremely brutal because he knew that Starkiller had immense potential and he wanted to squeeze every drop of it out. This training not only allowed Starkiller to constantly push his limits but it gave him the advantage of being familiar with how Vader fights, if that wasn’t enough Starkiller also happens to be extremely talented with force lightning, which is Vader’s weakness due to his cybernetics.
The reason Palpatine even gave him those cybernetics was because they were sensitive to force lighting. So basically Vader was up against someone with insane potential who has been constantly pushing his limits for years, knows him and his fighting style and is really good using the force power that is his greatest weakness.
When mentioning his age plus the injury/burns from Mustafar, It makes sense that Vader would be weaker after dawning the suit. If he was Anakin and wasn't burned after losing his limbs, He would've been way stronger outside the suit despite he would've had to been using cybernetics on all 4 limbs. I remembered there was a jedi that was actually cybernetic for most of his body.
It's worth noting that Vader essentially raised Galen. And thus, though he may not have realized it himself, Vader may have developed a twisted sense of fatherly love for him and simply couldn't bring himself to use his full power against him.
There's also the fact that the canon version of Vader is actually stronger than the one from the Force Unleashed/Legends. Especially how the suits between the two are very different
He is?
I thought canon was just weaker than legends overall ngl
@AnonTDegenerate While I'm not sure about which is weaker overall, I do know Vader is stronger in canon over Legends, a lot of Vader's issues in Canon are mental rather than physical as it is in Legends
I thought Force Unleashed was it's own universe, separate from Legends and Canon. Starkiller is so strong because he is the player, but still I'd like to think a Vader from Ep4 should be able to take him down. He isn't as conflicted, and Lightning as a counter to Vader is possible to be dealt with - either by blocking with the lightsaber or by using something (a stormtrooper perhaps) to block it for you by pulling them with the force.
You could have a debate with Mr.Theory in the podcast next time you gather.
Hard to say who'd win it depends if galen could grow close enough to palpatine. If starkiller is more powerful than his original self then he should be closer to reaching palpatines level. And if the quote from george lucas still applies then even if starkiller exceeds the percentage of being closer to palptine then he still struggles. If starkiller ends up as 90% of palpatine to vaders 80 then he does have an advantage but still struggles blade to blade hed really have to use his strikes to wear vader down in tandem with his lightning to reliably secure a win or survive.
I always get a good laugh at every video that I've ever seen when the Obi-Wan vs Vader fight is mentioned from A New Hope. Everyone loves to come up with some weird fictional reason as to why that lightsaber dual sucked so much instead of just admitting like George Lucas did. The dual was slow and not exciting because it was the first lightsaber fight ever filmed, Sir Alec Guinness was old, and the Vader suit was heavy and cumbersome. I get that the narrative has to fit everyone's story, but it's just funny to hear the excuses instead of the truth, because it always comes across as if the person narrating the video believes that this is all real.
I lied!!!!
As I have from the very beginning!
Noooooooooo!!!!?
I think if empire strikes back Vader fought Starkiller I think it would be a closer fight do to the fact that When Vader knows about Luke his power grew and I believe it would give him the much needed power to take out Starkiller so in that aspect I believe it would be a closer fight. But great question.
Because it’s a video game and it fits the theme of the game to fight and beat vader and palpatine. You’re supposed to be powerful. It doesn’t matter lorewise because this isnt cannon. Also, in the cancelled tfu3 he was supposed to be stronger because he was holding back once again because he was supposed to be the antagonist of the game and a bigger threat.
TFU really takes force powers to the extreme lmao. I still love it.
Cal Kestis: That Galen guy makes it look easy!
The thing is many people do not know the force unleased 3 had vader using his full power and beating star killer but disney canned it it was a open world game 😢😢
I break it down like this.There's a difference between hatred and anger.Darth vader feels hatred that has dolled over the years While starkiller is angry at his current situation, that he is in right now.
Starkiller is so powerful that when he invaded the land he thought the force was strong on some elderly man like Yoda unbeknownst that it was a toddler
Force lightning, all you had to say, because starkiller was the only other person in the galaxy at the time who could use it, and Vaders suit was designed to be weak to it
True but it's not like an instant win. He knows how to insulate himself and block it sorta.
Not including the fact that he can survive without his suit to an extent
@@AnonTDegenerate yet he doesn't know how to block lightning with his lightsaber lmao even in comics he has never tried to block lightning with his lightsaber once
@@OmnipulsarIs that done often, or was it mostly Windu's thing? I honestly don't remember 😅 Windy had a unique fighting technique though, if he was the only one to do it
@AnonTDegenerate when? He never blocked Palpatine he took the hit, but fair it's not an instant win, but it's a huge problem for him, and that's Palpatines fault
@@LifeEnemy Yoda did it too, hell yoda caught it in his hands.
Two other things...Merrick was born to force using parents and in a time where less beings were using the force wasting it in the galaxy.
Starkiller can just pull a moon down on Vader, or maybe two planets and smash Vader between them.
If cloning is possible, why not use clones to harvest body parts? Replacement arms, etc?
Vader from Empire Strikes back would lose to Starkiller. But the Apprentice would need to escape after their battle, and a promise to keep Juno safe would be good enough I think to keep Starkiller away, and away from telling everyone about his loss. If Vader loses though, many fans would be happy, others would be upset. But this will happen with anything. If Vader loses but survives, it can still make sense with the plotline. If Starkiller dies, this makes very little sense, as wasn’t he supposed to be Palpatines true apprentice eventually on a certain level? Meaning he was supposed to have greater potential, due to being trained by them both from a certain standpoint. Maybe I’m wrong, but greater potential+prime>slightly less potential but more power+ not nearly at prime and nerfed to me
What if Anakin at full power/Potential {Arguably his appearance in Ashoka} Fought Galen or his clone? How would such a duel play out if Galen/Star Killer was pulled into the World between Worlds? Would Anakin dominate Galen like he did to Ashoka?
Meanwhile it was revealed in the idea of TFU 3 that Vader was Sukuna and killed Starkiller...
Like why hype him up just to negate him
Plot armor is what kept Vader alive through each Force Unleashed game lol
Not if you choose the dark side ending.
@ I’m talking cannon. Plot armor with the movies, if the dark side ending were to be true in the FU games then movies 4, 5, and 6 would not exist. Which is why I said plot armor is what saves Vader
@@da9_dex Yes, that's why I said that this doesn't apply to the dark side ending. I'm not denying what you said, I'm just adding that in the alternate ending Vader loses all plot armor. Not to mention all the other characters affected in the alternate timelines events afterwards.
In the force unleashed 3: Vader was to have a final confrontation with Starkiller and emerging victorious.
Vader wasn't so weak against Starkiller. He tried to capture Starkiller on many occasions that they fought. Vader also trained Starkiller to overcome any battlefield conditions except Vader himself. Starkiller also was not that powerful in comparison to Vader, but able to contend with him many times they fought because of these fights being somewhat situational where factors stacked in Starkiller's favor.
Vader is the only power house. He was a child of the force . Literally. This is new kids hating the old guard . I think they missed the mark with Vader . This is the problem when movie writers do something and not a Book author story teller . Could you imagine George RR Martin with this series .
0:31 Actually, it's 3: Sidious, Galen Marek & Starkiller.
Does anyone also think that the loss of Vader's organics after his doomed fight in ROTS reduced his power in the Force? I don't know if everyone is on board with mitichlorian cannon from the prequels or not. If so, holy crap is Vader strong! If not, it's more a matter of will and expanding repertoire to include some kind of Sith regeneration. I dunno but fun to consider.
if u follow the story u'd notice vader was more concern in finding the remaining jedis with this newborn turnt sith jedi son that he found than actually stopping an uncontrollable threat
Proving vader had every thing under control
Galen Marek was The Unleashed Force. He was not constrained by Light Side...& as far as we know, he wasn't aware that a difference existed between the two sides. He was taught hate from the best in the business. He was encouraged to be guided by impulse and was free to use his entire body to harness the full power of The Force. He learned redemption from a Jedi but not before displaying a power Yoda had not yet or since.
th-cam.com/video/Mg8U2-Ry1vY/w-d-xo.html Today's Special - ANDOR
Lightning. Starkiller had the ability to use force lighting almost to the same degree that emperor palpating did. It’s why when you fight palpatine your going blow for blow with the lightning attacks against each other.
I wonder what the original trilogy wouldve been like had inquisitor replacing vader since hes the closest to being the best successor. Force Destruction is also the best ability
I think Starkiller is as strong as Vader WOULD have been had he not been burned on Mustafar. Remember he even near-defeated the Emperor.
Ive said this many times before Starkiller is exactly what an uninjured Lord Vader would be if he never lost his limbs
Galen is my favorite SW character other than Commander Wolfe
That would depend on why he was fighting if he was fighting for some thing he loved and was using his hate for it. He would win otherwise, if it was the other way around, the other guy would win.
Well in force unleashed 3 it is stated that until now vader was holding back a lot of his power against starkiller
Starkiller would indisputablely come out the winner as long as there is 0 outside interference. The fact palps feared him tells us who would win
8:17 He had made a sith master killer...
And he's a sith master lol
Star Killer is the true rival of Darth Vader.
TFU3 should keep Starkiller beating vader especially since Vader trained Starkiller to grow stronger by pushing his limits.
I think he secretly loved Galen as much as a Sith could love.
Vader had a bbc and threw it around like a bossman. Starkill had no chance
Maybe Starkiller is just an overpowered (compared to any other star wars content) video game character. Sorry just think of it as an alternate timeline if that makes you feel better.
I’m a little confused because I thought Vader’s cybernetics significantly slowed the sped up aging process that is to be expected from users of the Darkside. Now you’re saying his injuries were speeding up his aging? I need clarification.
It's such a Shame that there was never going to be a 3rd "Star Wars: Force Unleashed" Installment even before when Disney acquired the License,
The 1st Game was pretty Good 👍, but the 2nd Game is Mediocre Average 👎, there was still enough breathing Room for Improvements in a Potential 3rd Game but sadly was never Planned to ever Happened due to poor Reception the 2nd Game had Received, and thus it pretty much killed a supposedly Game Series within an Iconic Franchise.
I assumed the Force Unleashed isn't canon. Am I wrong?
This is completely true. Vader's body started to weak. His injuries,battles with StarKiller,everything. That's why he was slow against Obi-Wan. I don't think Vader from Empire Strikes Back would change much. It would be great battle,but I think Starkiller would come on top. May the Force be with you too😊
It's simple, Darth Vader lost about 75 percent of his original potential. Starkiller, master of forms 1, 3, and 7 makes him a very powerful, fast, and VERY unpredictable duelist
In this case, emotion matters
Now I wonder if Starkiller is more powerful than full potential Anakin Skywalker in the world between worlds.
no way,not even remotely close
Oh we love head canon
I am sure starkiller clone was losing to vader until he used his lightening fueled with his rage and vaders suit can not cope with it
If you want to beat Starkiller in a fight bring a nuke but if you want to beat Vader bring a taser...lol😂😂😂
If Maul has been trained like this. We can only wonder.
Short answer: Starkiller was that guy aka he got that dog in him
Word...
They should bring star killer back but make it so he defeats vader only once. Vader comes back similar how darth mual did, through hate. He kills star killer in the end in his 2nd duel... Just my opinion.
They should have made Starkiller Rey’s father in the sequel trilogy.
Starkiller was trained in using the force for only assault but vs obi one he would most likely fold
i don’t really like starkiller’s character. the reason he defeats vader it’s cause that’s the point of the game. defeating the big villain boss vader and make the game fun and stunning by making starkiller do powerful stuff so people would get excited for playing it. vader is the GOAT and in reality a random force sensitive person will never even match vader
I am not a fan of star killer. I don’t like this, god modded ideal apprentice of Darth Vader that simply overpowers and out classes Vader in every way making Darth Vader look like an inquisitor, and star killer look like the Sith Lord who’s on par with Darth Sidious. Outside of Luke Skywalker, no other character should ever over shadow Anakin Skywalker in anyway in my opinion while in the Skywalker story.
I think it would be starkiller but only slightly
Personally, while I adore Sam Witwer in the role and as actor overall, Starkiller is just kinda bland as a character. There's nothing particularly interesting about him other than his power/skill, and even that is kinda boring since it largely due to just being naturally gifted, more so than even Anakin was at his age. Which just feels like middle school ideas gone wild. "And then Vader kills this jedi after mowing down an army of wookies, and then this jedis son like force pulls Vaders saber out of his hands! And then like it'd be so cool if Vader made him a secret apprentice, he gets super strong and then beats Vader AND PALPATINE BACK TO BACK. Also he has a big dick and fucks the hot pilot girl and he's got s robot that can become other Jedi and Sith and is just as strong as them and and and".
Idk, beating vader in the 1st boss fight wasn't that easy. Seems like vader used star killer as practice for sideous
Starkiller is literally the Saitama of Star Wars
Galen Marek was far stronger than Vader, Siddious and Rey combined.
Fact.
Or just plot armor.
125th like!👍
Awesome video!🤘
Keep up the awesome work!🤘😎🤘
Because it was a non canon video game
I kinda had a suspicion when it came out that force unleashed took place in a universe with exaggerated force powers, not canon simply because of what the title implies