Everything You Know Is Wrong - Mesh vs Non-Mesh Front Panel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
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What started as a mesh vs solid front panel test quickly turned into fan configuration testing when our RTX 3090 was getting hotter with more Noctuas in the case. Come find out why!
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
1:18 Mesh vs Solid
2:35 GPU
3:35 Gaming
4:28 Smoke
6:40 Conclusion
7:58 Outro - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Guys, if you do this fog test at home, pay real close attention to the type of fogger and fluid you use. Most combinations leave oil residue on whatever the smoke collects on.
Pretty sure they all will leave oil residue...which over time will ionize and destroy your components. LPT...don't vape by your PC.
LPT#2...don't cook by your PC either...especially if you use a lot of oil in your cooking.
@@Starscreamious Oil residue? Vapour doesn't contain oil?
@@LongJohnnn vegetable glycerin is a primary ingredient
You can argue it's "not oil"...but it is oily.
@@Starscreamious Of course you can argue it's not oily, that's because it's not. It's viscous, a little sticky and can build up but if it was oily it would cause a lot of health issues when inhaled lol.
I appreciate the testing guys, but you'll want to differentiate between turbulence and vortices. All of the flow at these speeds and scales will be turbulent, which is actually great for cooling, as it mixes air more. What you call turbulence are actually stationary vortices, and this is the thing that is giving you worse temps.
I hate to be the "um, acktchually" guy, but if you use the correct terms, maybe the viewers will find better resources when googling about this stuff. Hope to see more advanced flow testing as the labs get developed, keep up the good work!
As this is the first of what seems to be a series, this type of insight might be extra precious and important. Not that this is their first rodeo, but it seems to be the testing grounds of a new type of content. The learning curve is steeper right now.
There's always room for improvement on all sides. Just take their new stance on memory mega-Hertz/mega-Transfers. Unannounced, they went with Ian Cutress' well-informed take, after a long respectful discussion online.
Keep on with these comments. We know Linus reads them. Specially on "new shit" like that
"I use ARCH by the way"
@@Xiao_PP ?
Get Adrian Newey on case designs stat
Exactly why planes have small vortices generators on their wings.
I used to work with smoke machines for a living. If you intend to do the same test at home DO NOT DO IT. It coats everything with a thin glycerin layer, the more you do it, the thicker it gets. Then your components get all sticky and start to collect dust and turn into a goop.
That is very kind of you to point that out, because I'm sure at some point someone would've tried that. Why did LTT use the smoke machine anyway if it leaves behind the goop, though?
Cause the Video is kinda boring without the visualization, also they got plenty of components anyway. And the short use of the smoke machine would most likely not affect these components for LTTs use anyway.
I smoke e-cigarette and I can proof the fact true !
@@RedBullRS4 word, almost any form of smoke will cost things in a layer, like ciggies
@@RedBullRS4 i got a case that allows me to put 2 kinds of filters(not designed as such) love modifications haha ( first one is the skinniest i could find in the charcoal section, second one are 120mm magnetic nylon filters) and so far , i could vape my life and my computer will be sticky free. just have to slightly clean it every 2 weeks ! i wish i could get a silverstone mm01 ;) . cheers
As an Aerodynamicist I have one pet peeve: what you refer to as "turbulence" is absolutely not turbulence but just ricirculation bubbles. Thank you and sorry
dont be sorry when you know you're right
I think you are right, I think the MAIN problem might be a lack of escape path for the air on the underside of the graphics card.....
This could be solved with an exhaust below the graphics card (The power supply doesn't look like it is contributing to air flow directly below the card for some reason)
ALSO: usually turbulent flow over a surface removes more heat than laminar flow(because the turbulent flow mixes air along the boundary layer)
@@Tom89194 what I'm saying is: he is pointing at a ricirculation bubble and calling it turbulence, which is like pointing at a chocolate bar and calling it a raspberry
@@JokerTheDank I said:
I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, I think the MAIN problem might be a lack of escape path for the air on the underside of the graphics card.....
However consider THIS:
What if his chocolate bar has raspberries in it??
@@Tom89194 no no, I AM RIGHT. Turbulence is everywhere, there is no laminar flow in that case anywhere.
Linus: “Yep we’ve got one”
I love how after all these years they are still throwing shade to the verge
lmao ye i also noticed that
@@brand9kh662 I laughed immediately
Not sure if it’s related but GamersNexus legit did a video the other day about the 12400 cpu and he also did the bit by saying, “Yeah that’s right we got one!” Possible GN Collab soon?! Rumor Time! So that’s where my mind went immediately lol
same, got me laughing right away
@@brand9kh662 Leave it to linus! LOL
I was expecting some type of actual trouble shooting like seeing if lowering the fan rpm or adding a guide for the airflow would help at all
Yeah, this video pretty much said nothing other than 'go to Microcenter'...
But that wouldn't fit the 10 minute video format.. So not a good fit for LTT
Bottom Intakes. :)
@@nintend0m Linus' Pro tip "spend schmekles at microcenter"
The problem with trying to give general tips about airflow is that the aerodynamics of your case / PC build will vary drastically from theirs. While you could tamper with the fan settings, at the end of the day, you'd still need to test, record, and analyze the data from your own machine.
I have an H510 elite (I bought it before I knew anything about thermals) and found that by running the front fans at the lowest I can possibly get them spinning (cant remember the speed off hand), and increasing the speed on the top and back fans by a tiny amount, the thermals improved drastically from the stock configuration.
Yeah, Jay has a video where he talked about balancing the airflow. Really makes sense to actually adjust the fans as needed for optimal flow.
oh man, that custom speed of the front fan i a sentey case is going to sell more now.
Achievement unlocked: The Mechanic
I'd be very interested to see a deeper delve into this. There are so many unanswered questions. What about AIOs? does having the rad on the top or bottom make much of a difference? What about having your intake on top and exhaust on the sides? What about 1 exhaust vs 2/3/4/5 intakes? What about the same number of intakes and exhausts and just different RPMs? So much could be learnt from this and I look forward to what you will do next with these experiments.
>AIO's on top or bottom
You do NOT want to have the AIO on the bottom. The pump will die relatively fast and it's not efficient.
>Intake on top / exhaust on the sides
Hot air rises so you're recirculating the air coming through other areas of the case. The air itself will come down but then want to go back up and being recirculated. You're better off with intake on the side and exhausting the top.
>1 exhaust vs 2/3/4/5 intakes
That will be a positive pressure and likely be a bad idea. You always want to try to match the amount of exhaust fans with the amount of intake fans. It depends on a per-case basic however and there is no 1 true answer but if I had the choice, I would always go extra exhaust as it would pull air in through the case naturally.
>different RPMs
Again this is positive vs negative pressure.
Personally I wouldn't take Linus seriously on this subject and leave it up to the experts that have done this type of testing for 15+ years. It's also too variable as it depends on what case you are using. The case in this video was well known to be good with a negative pressure set-up (2 exhaust, no intake) if I recall correctly.
Don't use water cooler. Use air cooler for CPU. Buy a case where you can place 3x120mm fans front panel, 2x120/140mm top and 1x120mm back. The 3 front panel are all intake, with the lowest one pushing air even under the GPU. The 3 top/back are outtakes.
This is the best scenario for 6 fans. I even swapped stock cooler from GPU for 2x120mm fans. all of the 6 case fans and 2 gpu fans are 120mm, PWM, PST (daisy chained) and make PC extremely quiet.
My CPU cooler is well over 4cm from the passive alu plate cooler on the GPU. Every component has nice room, nothing is too close or touching. Air gets everywhere. As warm/hot air rises, the 3 fans take it out. The one top fan is 3cm above cpu cooler and sucks air even out of that. Cooler is Mugen 5 rev.B 2 fan.
I dont like water coolers - pumps are noisy, motor is noisy too, if not immediately, then after few months. My air coolers are silent even after 5 years.
@@ancientslav4863 My AIO setup is whisper quiet since 2019.
This is all covered ad nauseum by other tech channels and websites... I'm the end it comes down to "don't cram big/hot components in a small case" and "get a mesh case".
AIOs are fantastic for airflow, you just have to make sure you have enough intake flow that you don't need a boost from an air tower. Also consider a case with fans on the bottom. 3 intake front and 2 intake bottom would solve this easily, and without an air tower messing with the flow pattern it would be cool and whisper quiet.
With such analysis I was expecting some exploration of fixes to the problem, like putting the GPU in a lower slot, getting a smaller CPU cooler, larger cases or trying a intake config with smaller but we'll placed fans.
Hopefully the new labs channel can get long form videos about that.
This looked like a trailer. I'll bet there's a 6 video series in the works, about how to address the problems.
A funny solution that worked out for me on a similarity small case (Corsair 400C) was running only one fan on the NH-D15. Really helped with my GPU temps.
I was hoping for a test with a smaller and thinner GPU after the initial findings
I just run my case with the glass off and two fans (not mounted, precariously placed) pointing at the underside of the GPU fans
@@berlinabb That's worse than a good fan configuration, bc you tend to keep recycling already hot air. At that point, ditch the case and put it flat, so the hot air can rise more easily.
I'm curious if flipping the PSU over to use as another exhaust would've broken the GPU air bubble.
I was thinking the same as you are. Maybe if there wasn't an PSU shroud it would allow one of the intake fan to be lower, allowing air to flow directly where the graphics card intake is at.
Another solution that might not be as optimal would possibly having a case with a top mounted PSU with an exhaust right under it and two intake fans on the lower part of the front. That way the air enters low and exits high.
@@user-hy7es3xu9w this would probably lead to a headup of the PSU and a significant one at that. So having 60-80°C hot air blasting into your PSU might not be the best. It could also starve the GPU of air if exausting the air to fast. (This only applies in this and similar cases where the gap between PSU fan and GPU fan is essentially a single slot or at most twi slots. If there was more space between the GPU and PSU this would not pose a problem, but then again you`d probably not even have the entire problem in the first case, as more space between PSU and GPU usually means you ahve a bigger case with plenty space between GPU and side panel leaving aple space for Air to be exaustet around the sides up towards the exaust fan.
I don't think that would work in the case because it has a PSU shroud.
I was wondering the same thing
@@cowjuicethepallytank when I was watching the video there are holes to let air threw to the psu if you would want to use it as an exhaust. I just don't know how much it would actually help.
Living in dry, dusty central Spain, negative vs. positive airflow has always been a big question mark. Around here, my own feeling is that you should prefer positive airflow, because you want to direct air intake through the dust filters. If pressure is negative, you get air coming in through other apertures in the case, along with all the dust it carries. On the other hand, positive air pressure tends to lead to dead zones and air recirculation. I try to get the balance to just barely positive, but it is tough to balance. If it weren't for the dust I would go for slightly negative.
Absolutely my point. My space is not really dusty, but plenty and I hate dealing with it. So even though I understand all these differences with positive/negative pressure and fan configs, I just want all of air going into the case to be filtered, or at least to logically think that it is.
Definitely would like to see more about this. I've been building PCs since before fans or even heat sinks were fitted to the CPUs, the graphics cards were more problematic due to their jumper configuration and PSUs that were built into the cases... the various attempts at improved or standardised improved air flow and other cooling have always been of interest. Not that I ever build a system that has the top end components in it therefore I don't care that much but cooling for even mid range PCs is becoming more and more important.
One interesting discovery I had was that, moving my single front intake fan from middle slot to lower slot decreased my GPU temps almost by 10C° It blows directly under the GPU so provides much better airflow for the GPU
I miss the days befored tempered glass side panels took over. A 120mm side panel intake beside the gpu was popular. Some cases even had a side intake for the CPU area and for the GPU area.
@@ayuchanayuko side intake for the CPU really makes sense only for top-down CPU coolers, not tower ones, so it still exists but mostly in ITX and desktop cases. As for GPU I think more elegant solution is to have front intake, but at the bottom, so it cools hard drives, chipset AND supplies air for GPU bottom intake. As it was on older mid-tower cases and sometimes exists today, I have such a case and love this configuration.
@@1loshvitalik Well some people want to use inverted cases. Were the gpu is up and the cpu is down. So there a side fan would work wonders getting rid of warm air.
@@1loshvitalik my case ( Antec Dark League DP502 FLUX) has a reverse fan the blows from under the GPU, such a nice feature especially with a blower card
@@edenjung9816 Inverted cases are interesting since with the GPU cooler blowing downward, you usually get best results with having intake on the top of the case and exhaust on the bottom, otherwise your fans end up trying to fight the GPU cooler.
Would be interesting to see if some 3d-printed guide could improve the airflow to the GPU.
Major hardware already did this, and the results were impressive.
15..20 years ago quite a few brand PC had plastic CPU "air tunnels" within them. Sure you need to cool the VRM too, but that's doable too.
Tried this, just even a simple paperguard worked well. Major Hardware has some nice vids around the topic.
My case is larger so I even put heatsinks on the back of mine with a small noctua blasting down on the backplate. Only Cyberpunk can truly heat it above 76C anymore.
Venting and shrouds do help. Old school modding would be to get some home venting from a hardware store and putting it into your case to direct flow to the cpu.
a simple peace of card placed between adjacent fans stops a lot of cavitation if I am using some 80mm fans The card will be 80x80mm dropped the max temp by 10 hole degrees relative to ambient. this was just two 80mm fans shoehorned into a pair of redundant optical disk drive bays in a retro case, the difference was one peace of 80mm square card. this was cpu temp. as for the GPU there was a good flow of air from the lowest case fan to keep things under check and the bonus there is enough flow around that zone to keep the SSD's and hard drive cool enough. In the old days we called it CAD engineering Cardboard Aided Design (you would then replicate the card bord with material of choice eg Aluminium) I kept the cardboard as it is a soft carbon fiber composite...
Oh hey the channel is back
"In both cases"
I love how Linus said that with a super cereal face.
2:38 Yeah, we’ve got one. A Core i7 hexa-core CPU. Love the Verge PC build references!
A few quick thoughts on the conclusions you guys drew about turbulence. Most real world air flow systems are inherently turbulent since laminar flow requires carefully controlled environments & pretty low air speed requirements(which are often possible only in laboratories). The fans that are sucking in the air are making what is already a turbulent stream even more turbulent by adding more velocity(energy) to the incoming air. This is a non issue for the CPU because the air reaching the CPU tower has unhindered access to the air brought in by the case fans.
But in the case of the GPU the shear width of the card blocks a bunch of incoming air deflecting it above & below the GPU. This sets up a local vortex system that is powered by the incoming air from the case fans. What does that do? It converts the linear velocity of the incoming air into rotational velocity making the air simply go in circles above & below the front of the GPU. This effectively cuts off any air to the rear of the GPU starving it of fresh air. The same thing happens in front of the CPU fans as well if you notice in the highlighted box at 5:58. What's even more interesting is there seems to be a vortex pair in the top section of the case that are feeding each other drawing in more air. You would see all of this in much more clarity if you use PIV as mentioned by @Spirit, but for starters using a much lower amount of smoke will greatly improve the clarity of all the phenomenon I discussed above.
So what would you recommend ?
Top rear exhaust is pulling most the flow into the top chamber.
@@Joshua-uq9zw Less energy (i.e. lower fan speed) in the system. The front fans should basically just help overcome the resistance of the mesh. Added benefit: at low rpm those fans are completely silent (probably the included ones as well, some manufacturers actually pair their cases with suitable fans).
Alternatively you could go for negative pressure and suck in air through the (fortunately perforated) PSU shroud. That way the airflow from below towards the GPU would stay (at least somewhat) in the laminar regime and only become turbulent once it is exhausted from the case (where it doesn't matter anymore).
@@Joshua-uq9zw separate the air flow, give the gpu its own case fan and let it vent into the cpu section of the case
Amazing work guys! Was hoping to see some kind of solution in your build configuration (smaller GPU, being able to find a way to add that fan at the top, etc.) with results.
I'd like to see this with a shroud forcing the airflow to the deadzone...Be interesting to see how free cardboard to direct airflow might be better than strapping on more fans/vents.
I've often thought about this as well.
Creating custom air channels within the case for optimal flow, I know Apple has done something similar with one of their desktops I've seen.
It'd be a pain to get just right, but with some time and a 3D printer, you could really make something cool!
Always making as many shrouds the build allows. Never tested the discrepancy tho. Function over the form.
@@badnewsbruner Just do some measure and cut some cardboards. Serves the exact same purpose with 0 cost.
@@maozedowner5915 yeah, I'd want it to look nice though.
Don't really want cardboard and duct tape air channels in my 2500$ build, lol.
@@badnewsbruner You can wrap that cardboard with some decent looking material or just paint it black. I personally like the idea of function over form so it being ugly actually fascinates me more
I see Linus is getting a ton of mileage out of that smoke machine. Also, those acoustic panels are really doing wonders for the sound quality of the workshop footage.
*SENSITIVE CONTENT*
ONNANOKO.TOKYO/machiko
MEGAN : "Hotter"
HOPI : "Sweeter"
JOONIE : "Cooler"
YOONGI : "Butter" .
PETTY : face.
BODY : Beautiful.
SMART : flirt.
Like to eat.
Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались.
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков
#ライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#かならりやばかったですね！１#万人を超える人が見ていたもんね（笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした！#今後は気を付けないとね5). .
!💖🖤❤#今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#１万人を超える人が見ていたも ん（#笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした #今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！（ #笑）#垃圾
It's a FOG machine.... and he's spraying glycol all over those components.
@@bepbep7418 who cares, makes smoke -> smoke machine. You’re just being fn annoying and must be really fun at parties… nvm, you don’t get invited
@@bepbep7418 you are wrong too , fog doesn't suppose to rise up
@@death-by-ego lmao
Man, you guys really need to do proper particle image velocimetry to get good airflow data. The "toss fog at it" approach quickly saturates and you see almost nothing of the later progress, only the intake is clearly visible.
Let me know if you want to try this, I can help.
*SENSITIVE CONTENT*
ONNANOKO.TOKYO/machiko
MEGAN : "Hotter"
HOPI : "Sweeter"
JOONIE : "Cooler"
YOONGI : "Butter" .
PETTY : face.
BODY : Beautiful.
SMART : flirt.
Like to eat.
Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались.
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков
#ライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#かならりやばかったですね！１#万人を超える人が見ていたもんね（笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした！#今後は気を付けないとね5). .
!💖🖤❤#今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#１万人を超える人が見ていたも ん（#笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした #今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！（ #笑）#垃圾
and no frequency data is given... so yeah, this test is almost useless
@@georgexander7170 bit rude ngl
@@MeAMoose """bit"""
You can easily carry out PIV using a fog machine. I used a fog machine during my research experiments to characterise turbulence in an open chamber. You cannot use particles or ethanol droplets in this context (for a PC) for obvious reasons so a fog generator is ideal.
Whilst you are correct that there is a situation where you can get too many particulates (and enter a regime which I think is called Laser Speckle), in practice this is not really a significant issue because you can modify the fog generator to release in short bursts.
Finally, PIV is not something you would need for flow visualization. It is only needed when you want to obtain velocity data.
I test this sort of thing for work using 1-wire temp sensors for both ambient and attached directly to devices. Air cooling is a dark art and the results of small changes are often surprising when mapped over time.
Would be interessting to see what would happen if you separate the airflow from the intakefans with a piece of cardboard (attached between the intakefans and the graphicscard). Basicly giving the cpu one intakefan and the graphicscard one intakefan, also limiting the posibility of turbulance... ?!
Funnel style-ish build? Works better. Don't remember the time when they sold funnel builds or even diy with card boards for small shitty pc-cases? I would still always go with a bigger pc-case and stronger even if louder fan out.
I always like these kind of tests but I feel this was get it out the door scenario. There is so much that could have been done. I feel a directional shroud testing as well indepent fan speeds to control amount of air coming in etc. Would have loved to see more in-depth video.
Daily uploads are fine but if it will affect video quality I think it's better to slow down.
@@sofia________________7253 this needs sorted, how was this comment highlited
@@Rupis94 it's highlighted because the person who posted it, *HIGHLIGHTED* it.
Product quaity doesn't matter, what matters is to get the product out to start getting revenue, they learned good from Nvidia, AMD or Intel.
Linus: " everything you know is wrong "
Me: "yep I knew it"
*SENSITIVE CONTENT*
ONNANOKO.TOKYO/machiko
MEGAN : "Hotter"
HOPI : "Sweeter"
JOONIE : "Cooler"
YOONGI : "Butter" .
PETTY : face.
BODY : Beautiful.
SMART : flirt.
Like to eat.
Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались.
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков
#ライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#かならりやばかったですね！１#万人を超える人が見ていたもんね（笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした！#今後は気を付けないとね5). .
!💖🖤❤#今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#１万人を超える人が見ていたも ん（#笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした #今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！（ #笑）#垃圾
Saahir, I'm sorry that you clever comment has been attacked by bots
That’s wrong too 😝
I found that you can get a benefit from simply removing the rear case grates on the unused PCIe slots. If you have front intake fans creating internal air pressure against the GPU, these open PCIe case slots allow for the air to flow and exhaust out the back. This made a massive difference for my PSU which was previously stuck sucking in the hot GPU exhaust air. With everything else the same, my PSU went from burning hot to cold to the touch just from opening these PCIe grates.
Alternatively, get a GPU with a blower style cooler and you won't have this problem in the first place
This is literally the best explanation to what I was trying to figure out. Just bought an H5 Flow that I’ll be using with the hot 7700X, but I’m using an AIO and just a 3070 FE, so the inside won’t be cluttered at all and much more airflow will be on the inside. I think it’ll work perfect as I’m also using all the premium noctua fans too, even for the radiator. Thanks for this!!
I have actually experienced some similar issues with my setup (Lenovo Legion 5i Gen 2 Desktop). I added a plastic divider to force the air from the bottom intake fan downwards to the GPU area. Thought you guys were going to try something similar with this case.
Been thinking of 3D printing something to do the same, how did it improve your thermals
I tried similar way but i found out the plate redirecting airflow also cause high pressure area near the outlet of fan, so the overall airflow drop. Instead, i add a small fan blowing directly below the GPU. The small fan suck the turbulence and high pressure air to maintain higher overall airflow into the case.
@@joelau2383 I actually did something similar on my old rig where I added a 80mm exhaust at the back of my case below my GPU.
@@shoots8940 Well for my specific case it worked pretty well actually, got my GPU floating around 80 celsius max when in game.
Lenovo c530 cases did something like that. Since they are a small form factor i guess they had to take every step
I'm interested in seeing this test performed on a case with bottom intake fans, like the Fractal Design Torrent.
Or something like the Meshify, where you can put a greater distance between the two front fans (make sure the lower one blows beneath the GPU) but otherwise somewhat replicate the H510 experience.
Not sure how much this helps, but I've got the O11 Dynamic Mini with all the fan slots filled, 5 intakes and 3 output. I personally got about a 5-7C decrease in GPU temps with the bottom intakes using my 5700XT (I've since upgraded to an RTX 2080 and have had a smaller difference). Havnt gotten it properly tested and can't keep my room at a constant temp for consistency, but it definitely makes at least a bit of a difference.
Edit: I do tend to try and keep my room around 18-20C (65-68F) and run custom curves on my GPUs rather than the default curve.
the meshify also allows for three fans if you remove part of the psu cover. I did this on my build not just for airflow, but I really just like the aesthetic of three front rgb fans
The gpu "wall" bit makes me wonder why Nvidia and all of the other companies like EVGA don't make the "front" of the gpu more aerodynamic with something like a wedge so the air doesn't bounce away, seems like it would be a virtually free way to improve cooling performance. You should do a test with a wedge on the gpu to direct the air better and see if that alters the results in any meaningful way.
that would look dumb as fuck and wouldn't make any difference since the air would still swirl around in that bottom void
Im guessing because a more aerodynamic design will either lengthen the already huge shroud size or shrink the heatsink volume, neither of which are ideal.
The 4090 has a hollow pass through so air can pass through the card, I guess that was designed to alleviate this issue
The shape of the GPU is irrelevant, the real solution is blower style GPU coolers that suck air in and eject out out the rear of the case
Ahh the Founders cards duct/vent air out the back of the case not blow it around inside the case like aftermarket gpus. If you want a pointed GPU just add a plastic divider.
I've often thought about 'splitting' the inside of my case with a horizontal barrier between the GPU and the CPU/RAM). The bottom front fan would feed cool air to the GPU, and the top fan would feed air into the CPU/RAM area. I've not tried it yet, but often think about the idea and would love to see you guys try it!
Hardware Esfera
You should watch Optimum's video titled "I fixed PC Cooling"
He 3D prints vents that directly connect each intake to CPU and GPU fans
@@droson8712 Not very optimal either. Other components also depend on that extra airflow for cooling (like GPU backplate). Splitting case in two sections with separate cooling without trapping that airflow in vent should be more practical (and easier to implement).
@alexturnbackthearmy1907 Not the point I'm just saying that it's a cool video that does something similar to what he described
Forcing air to flow where you want can make for some huge improvements. Simple guides, ramps, and wedges work well. You all could 3D print some experiments pretty easily but I've literally used duct tape, sheet plastic, and cardboard to achieve this in the past.
Or use a gpu that blows hot air tp the outside. That whould prevent the deadspot in this config
This is why OEMs use ducts in their desktops and servers
@@rubikfan1 - Sadly, they typically have inferior cooling to begin with 😕
@@brandonallen2372 - Well, it allows them to get away with less fans and poorer layouts in the name of saving money. Same idea ... Just different purpose, haha.
You'd think with how much engineering goes into cars with how wind effects them for efficiency, they'd do the same for PC cases to figure out more efficient designs rather than just square boxes with fan mounts. My PC sucks at drag racing.
Yeah what a joke. i skipped the entire "psu at the bottom hidden" case phase, totally superficial and pointless. instead of focusing on RGB, maybe brands should have focused on actual performance before we got 400w video cards.
They don't it for mass market cases because, bluntly, doing all that work on a PC case is bad engineering. Engineering, when done well, is designing something to a cost so it is *just* good enough to meet the specification. In real world scenarios the difference of a couple degrees in the temperature of the graphics card means sweet FA so there is no purpose in doing it, unless by doing so you can sell more cases.
I would recommend the Lian Li 205 at Micro Center for someone who wants to assemble a similarly sized build with a solid front cover. It's very similar to the NZXT H510 in terms of layout, but the removable front cover of the Lian Li case probably has better intake thanks to an open bottom and grills that span from top to bottom on both the left and right sides. Furthermore, the Lian Li case has a top exhaust grill that can accommodate two case fans or a 120x240mm/140x280mm radiator.
That's an awesome vid actually, great job. Can't wait for more tests like this!
6:58 The way the front fans were installed, in front of the bracket, the fan body itself blocks the entry of air.
The ideal is to place the fans behind the support, being more inside the case and leaving space between the fans and the air intake, automatically having a freer air flow.
Insane they would do all this testing make a whole video with a smoke machine and all and have the fans mounted wrong.
Probably didn't fit with the gfx card? Moral of the story is not to put a big GPU in a small case.
@@saifaddeenal-manaseer6325 It does look like maybe they wouldn't fit but yeah either way if they don't fit where they are meant to go get a smaller GPU or a bigger case.
@@saifaddeenal-manaseer6325 I have the non Flow case Witch a XFX 6900XT and mounted fans in the right spot, Normal fans did not clear the GPU with the anti sag bracket from XFX so got some super slim fans and have great temps now! :D
@@ivanrder2535 nice, lucky you haha
Please please please, do more of this testing. This was super interesting! I'd be super curious as to how the 30 Series Founders Edition cards fair.
do more testing? lol the testing has already been done by numerous other creators. LTT does a lot of good work but this was just lazy. everyone in the enthusiast space knows that you want a roughly balanced fan setup. 3 intake, 3 exhaust for example. add in an extra intake or exhaust and there is a real debate. but to take 2 subpar nzxt cases and be like "derp derp the noctuas do nothing!!!" is just idiotic. all this really shows is that nzxt is incompatible with high power gpus
@@arbitraryalias9825 They've been putting out shit for a while now.
@SOUL SEEKER All of youtube is free content. The core assertion of this video should have been: "don't put a 3090 in a trash NZXT case." A lower tier card would have been fine with this fan config in this case. I am fine with linus making a fortune off his videos, paying 80 people's salaries, that's great, really. But they should be intelligent, informative videos, and I'm afraid this will just confuse people and lead them to believe that higher quality fans don't matter.
@@arbitraryalias9825 well... higher quality fans ACTUALLY don't matter if the case is shit. i don't think there was any point in the vid where he was trying to prove that all fans are the same.
I anticipated this when i built my rig. Its the reason why i opted for a Lancool 2 mesh case and installed 2 fans underneath the gpu drawing air from the mesh side panel. Aside from the exhaust behind my tower air cooler, I also installed another exhaust right above it and blocked the rest of the mesh up top with an old plastic folder and tape - I want as much of the air taken in by my top intake fans to go straight to the aircooler and not escape through the top mesh.
I've been messing about with this case and a very similar setup and found that it's best to have the front fans (140mm X 2) pulling cool air in gently, so as to not create extreme turbulence and the rear fan set to about 70% fixed to pull hit air out. Now my rig runs very quiet and cool. GPU in particular is running far cooler than before. It's an odd little case for sure when it comes to this kind of thing but get the balance right and it performs brilliantly.
3D printing a baffle that deflects the air from the bottom half of the bottom fan will probably go a long ways. Bonus points for making a baffle the directs the hot air coming out of the exposed side of the GPU cooler up.
I did something similar to this on mine. Printed shrouds to split the airflow from the front of the case over the top and bottom of the gpu while the radiator for the cpu draws air in from the top and ducts to the back. It's atypical, but I have cats who shed tumblefuffs, so I draw all air through the filtered panels.
I think in this case (pun somewhat intended) it would make a lot of sense to mount the PSU upside down so that it acts as another exhaust fan, which would conveniently be lower down. Of course, I don't know whether that PSU shroud is vented, but if it is I think this would be worth trying
You should try the impact of aftermarket dust-filters for individual case fans. It could be a nice touch for the periodical maintenance and life-span of the fan.
And it was at this point, sometime in 2000', that gamers decided to add side panel fans over the graphics card.
Well, it was either that or remove the side panel entirely.
Honestly, if you have a "bad case" just remove the side panel and clean your PC every 6 months or something.
I have the Thermaltake Chaser mk 2 with 4 200mm fans one is in the side panel next to the gpu
Doesn't the side panel fan only help blower type GPUs? I think GPU cooling might improve, but it won't be optimal due to the GPU exhaust conflicting with the direction of the side panel fan.
@@silentKeys20 Problem is when you have cats lol
@@bob_smite Run the case side fan as exhaust, drawing air across gpu with negative pressure. Most cards would be dumping 80+ of their heat right into that exhaust flow too.
Just remove PCI-E slot covers on back of case so air can exit there. You have positive pressure in case so more exits for air is needed.
I have forever used Silverstone's aeroslots, which are basically vented PCI slot covers. Why not have another place for air to vent near the most power hungry component?
I have a mesh front panel case, which I actually got at a thrift store with a 10 year old motherboard in it. Once I got the components to replace what was in there, I almost maxed out the fans by putting 6 fans into it, and also getting a cooling unit for the CPU, I was able to get the CPU much cooler. I like the fact that I can access the HD’s by pulling out the mesh. There’s a fan near the bottom HD’s which I have pulling air in to cool those lower drives, and get air moving more inside the case.
2:36 the random verge build references never really go away do they? 😂
Long story short: run the Noctuas with lower RPM and benefit from the reduced noise level, while at the same time avoiding too much turbulence around the GPU.
This particular case might actually benefit from a fan mounted on the perforated PSU shroud (to move air directly towards the GPU), or reverse air flow with two exhaust fans in the front (i.e. negative pressure, to suck in fresh air from below), or mounting the PSU fan up (to pull more air from the front over the GPU).
It's not turbulence causing the problem, you want turbulence. The problem is the graphics card and giant air-cooler acting as a deflector plate and impingement plate respectively, the latter having sufficient pressure drop to restrict the air-flow from inlet side to outlet side. This causes vapor recirculation (vortices) which further restrict the flow of air.
basically what iam doing with my Lancool II Mesh Performance :D 2x 140 + 120mm in the Front, 2x 120mm under the GPU, 140mm in the Top back and 120mm in the back.
Similar to the idea of mounting a fan on the psu shroud, what I have are 2 120mm arctic fans mounted on a pci bracket a couple inches under my 3080 and it seems to be doing a great job at keeping temps down while running nice and quiet.
Welcome to fluid dynamics! One solution is to place vanes to direct flow where needed (or shunt flow away from short circuits). A vane that starts above the lower front fan, terminates at the lower edge of the GPU, and spans side to side could substantially increase the air flow to the GPU intake side.
This HVAC guy fully agrees 👍
For real. I really hope Linus is not just learning about this now instead of 15 years ago when he was supposed to.
Considering I have the h510 flow, I’m thinking about putting a black piece of cardboard paper to direct all the airflow of the bottom front fan under the gpu. I’m not getting any bad temps right now (3070 at 70° at 100% load and without any fan curve adjustments) but I want to see how much of a difference it will make. That and 140mm fans.
You could also design the front so that the mesh part is at the bottom and lower the fan placement, so the the lower fan more directly blows into the bottom half of the case without the requiring any vanes. The only tricky part is doing it in an aesthetically pleasing way.
@@myrealusername2193 U could also try making the front fans exhaust air.
I recently received my first good PC that isn't a laptop that runs at .9 ghz, which has opened me up to so many things I could never do before. And your videos help me so much on what to buy and what is right for my PC and my need, thank you. Some much your content is wonderful.
"At your local MicroCenter"
As far as i am aware, they are only in the US. Is it even worth it to call it "local" if basically all of the world outside US don't have one?
They look at stats bro... 85% of viewers are within US, so...
The problem here is Internal Air Flow Space, its one thing to have a lot of great fans but if the air does not have the space to flow then there is no point. At the least get a case that is taller and has the space for two top-mounted fans or better still get a case where the Mobo is mounted horizontally and then also have them top-mounted fans. I want to see Linus redo this test with some of them TermalTack cases that do allow for the horizontal mounting even if it just one of their smaller versions.
ThermalTake? but also checking an FT02 or RV02 from Silverstone would also be very good content for a smoke test. in terms of 90° MoBo mounting.
idk, I think MOAR FANS could solve it
How about a shroud for one of the intake fans to blow air to the GPU? You could eliminate that turbulence with a nice slanted design and get it right where you need it.
I think a case like the Lian Li Lancool II Mesh is the perfect case to test out all fan configurations. It allows for front, back, top and PSU shroud fans. Also allows for 120mm or 140mm fans on the front or top.
A good tech youtuber should be able to use that case to test out all scenarios for a PC case and see which configuration works best.
i know exactly why this happens, more gpu temperature with noctuas, than with stock fans. Linus missed the real point, kinda. He is wrong in 1 or 2 points.
u will get better gpu temps with a bigger case, but the video is not about that.
first of all the stock fans DOESN'T push air out of the back pci expansion slot plates, is the other way, they are enough weak that instead of air going out of pci expansion plates, air is coming in because rear fan is moving MORE AIR than the 2 fans at front under double mesh. So air is coming in, directly to the gpu, from the slot plates under it, dragged in thanks to the rear fan creating a "negative pressure" inside the case.
When you add more powerfull fans at front, the pressure is balance, and rear fan can't no more pull air in, from the expanxion slot plates. So gpu stops receiving fresh air from there. increasing the temp.
Maybe the more powerful noctua fans at front, now move a bit more air under the gpu from the front, but is a lot less, than the air that was coming in from expansion slot plates.
And that is the reason.
The gpu creates a recycling wall that makes airflow from front hard to pass through , even worse on that narrow gap between the gpu and the psu cover. And even worse with the expansion slots plates on, instead of removing them.
I thought the H510 was tolerable if you configure it for negative pressure, no? I thought steve said that.
Also, the problem with the setup is that normally the H510 lets the GPU breathe through the PCI slots. But when you force air in from the front, you completely stop that avenue of fresh air for the GPU. So you either need to duct the lower front fan to make sure it feeds the GPU properly, or run your air back to front.
I'm running the H510 in its stock (negative pressure) configuration and thermals are fine with a non-overclocked 5800x and 3060ti. I read somewhere that adding front fans actually hurt the thermals for this case so I left it with no front intake fans.
Or just dont buy that steaming pile of crap.
you p[robably sound like kermit the frog irl
This exactly. I have one and live in the tropics and my temperatures are fine. It's just an easy target. When someone says it's a "bad airflow case" I instantly know they have no clue what they are talking about.
Yes negative pressure and a fan in the lower psu departement blowing up on the gpu. I got that setup in a h200 and its doing just fine. I tried going all in with a lot of fans in front, and it failed, as this test did. My analysis was that the positive pressure hindered gpu from getting air from below.
Thanks for this vid, got me motivated to check my case airflow, and i discovered a whole new dust filter section that i had never cleaned. With that and lowering my bottom intake fan to better supply air to my 2080, PC is now quieter when playing Skyrim VR.
Thank you so much, beside all the other very good videos you have, this is another big clue on how cases should be build thinking about cooling and airflow. Would like to see a best case scenario being build so we have an example of how to best do it and then showcasing the proofs of the main aspects that we all should think about when building a proper gaming pc.
I experienced something similar with my setup. I think I inadvertently ended up fixing it by putting a smaller 90mm PWM fan at the bottom front of the case - with some of the airflow going over the gpu but most of it going under it. My gpu temps dropped by about 10 degrees even compared to a bigger 140mm fan at the exact same spot. No more hotspots and the max it gets to now is around 62c with customized fan curves. I still have a 140mm fan on the upper front of the case and an exhaust just behind the CPU cooler near the IO. It's the best cooling setup I've ever had, the heat just radiates off the top and everything is permanently cooled with minimal noise
Which case do you use?
@@vaghatz It's a NOX Hummer Fusion
The verge will never live that down 🤦♂️😂
*SENSITIVE CONTENT*
ONNANOKO.TOKYO/machiko
MEGAN : "Hotter"
HOPI : "Sweeter"
JOONIE : "Cooler"
YOONGI : "Butter" .
PETTY : face.
BODY : Beautiful.
SMART : flirt.
Like to eat.
Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались.
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков
#ライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#かならりやばかったですね！１#万人を超える人が見ていたもんね（笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした！#今後は気を付けないとね5). .
!💖🖤❤#今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#１万人を超える人が見ていたも ん（#笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした #今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！（ #笑）#垃圾
Seems like removing the expansion slot covers below the GPU might have made a difference for the GPU allowing more airflow under the GPU to replace that air. Especially if that PSU in the basement was configured fan-down.
I always love hearing Micro Center sponsor you! MC is my hometown computer store (HQ - Columbus, OH)! I've bought 3 laptops and a desktop there! Plus plethora cords, cables, parts and pieces...!
I would love to see this re-tested with the Founder's edition 3090. I suspect the dual-direction fans are a lot different.
This problem is here only because case manufacturers collectively decided that side panel doesn't need a fan anymore
I remember when cases had side panel intakes for GPUs. Those need to come back especially now that GPUs are running hotter than ever.
With the switch from acrylic to glass that would be a very tricky undertaking. Glass side panels are brittle enough as it is, adding a cutout for a fan would make it damn near impossible to ship a case with out the glass breaking into a million pieces.
That's because they don't need side panels. The Meshify C, 4000D, P5000A are all good examples of that.
Love these tests!
Bonus positive feeling for also confirming the various intuitions I formed over the years xD
I really liked the visualization of the air with the fog. Well done boys!
So basically airflow is more than just how fast air goes in and out, it’s also about how much heat is contained or recycled inside before actually leaving the case.
I'd love to see more cases run through these motions and recommend fan intake/exhaust config
Agreed. The H510 is pretty basic where a lot of popular cases like the 5000d and O11D have added in side case placement for fans. It would be interesting to see how that plays into the dynamic of airflow.
It'd also be nice to see how different sizes of GPU's affect it. Like if you took an older 2 slot card does the airflow improve a ton or just a bit... same with vertical mounting.
This makes a lot of sense, I kinda already knew it but a visual helps a lot. The build I've been planning is in a Micro ATX mid tower, so I decided on an AIO and keeping the GPU size down.
I bought the Lian Li Mesh II awhile back, and I plan on keeping it for a loooong time, precisely for this reason. I didn't know until after I bought it that it has a spot underneath the GPU slots to place either a couple SSD's or a fan that pulls fresh air from the side mesh panel, and it supplies the GPU with it's own air supply. I have to imagine this is great, and I have the temps to match. I would love to see a video on this case or maybe similar cases and to make a case (pun intended) for the need for these bottom intake fans directly under the GPU now, considering how power hungry they are now.
It would be interesting to see the same test with a blower style graphics card. I have a similar case from a different manufacturer, when I upgraded my GPU from a 1050ti with fans to a 1080ti with a blower my CPU temperature went down by around ten degrees, in spite of the fact that a 1080ti generates way more heat. Obviously because the blower on the 1080ti was exhausting the GPU heat out the back of the case, whereas the fans on the 1050ti were just adding more heat for the case fans and CPU cooler to deal with.
i don't think they make a "blower" 3090 and doesnt look like "blower" gpus are going to even be a thing anymore at least at the high end. a 3090 is just too much heat (500watts+) for a mid tower case and you really need a full tower case for one of these. or if you go mid tower you need to be carefull what case you pick make sure you get one with excelent cooling (better than this nzxt case)
Yeah blower gpu really good if you have bad case ventilation.
I miss blowers. Apple showed everyone how to properly cool even 4 GPUs with a direct air path (in Mac Pro) silently. And still, no one were able to follow or replicate…
@@BassRacerx I'm running the gigabyte 3090 turbo in my mini itx pc, I can confirm they exist, and they work well enough (~75C at load) but they're stupidly loud
@@BassRacerx I think a case with bottom replaced with wire meshes and one exhaust at the rear might be okay for the setup in this video. The case in the video doesn't support that configuration, though.
I can't wait to see flow testing with cases and graphics card sizes. Also I have a huge inverted case (it's the same case as Tarran's and I can't remember the name of it. Corsair Carbide 600q or something) and I'm wondering how having extra intakes on the bottom and two intakes on the front with only one exhaust flows for for the GPU. My thermals on my 6800XT seem to be pretty good with it only getting to about 60c (usually 67 on hotspot) at the highest under 100% load for over an hour, and it's probably only that high because my room isn't well vented. The CPU however seems to suffer more because under load, but not 100% it will get to about 80c with a NH-D15 with both fans attached. It's a 5800x, so it's a bit of a hot chip. Still, there's two intake fans that should be blowing directly at it so I don't know what's up with the temp.
you need more exhaust. you have to get the hot air out of the case. do two intake on the front and do the bottom two fans and the rear fan as exhaust. that case has a LOT of open mesh on the rear and front of the case that you don't really need to "force" fresh air in to the case you need to get the heat out of the system. having 4 intake and one exhaust would not be as good. run the front intake at half speed and the three exhaust at max speed and that will likely be the best solution for cooling. also that case is an older model it may be time to refresh your fans to some newer fans!
@@BassRacerx okay... Except why is the graphics card that is higher than the CPU cooler with smaller heatsinks performing cooler while at 100% load (it's an ASUS TUF RX 6800XT) than the 5800X at 70% load below it with an NH-D15 sitting below it with more potential to get cool air on it. The way the flow should work is it should push the cool air into the fins and fans of the d15 and push back into the exhaust fan directly. There's two intake fans that would sit in front of the heatsink and one intake fan directly below the heatsink. The CPU should technically be better cooled than the GPU as waste heat should be pooling up towards the top of the case, though maybe the chonky graphics card is keeping it down by the CPU is my only guess. The only thing is, the whole point of a positive pressure system is to push the hot air out. It shouldn't need to be pulled out by a fan that much, it should just get out as it gets pushed because the volume is completely filled (and it's not pressurized)
Thing is, making the bottom fans exhaust sounds dumb because there's not enough height and it will just come back up through the gaps. Bottom front fan is out for the same reason and the intake fan above it dedicated to the GPU.
Also, it has new NF-A14s in there
@@CreativityNull nice on the new fans. sounds like you have everything you need. every case/ setup is different so it's always worth experimenting with different configuations. as this video points out just because something makes sense in theory doesn't mean it happens in the real world. If you are having high cpu temps specifically and gpu temps are good I would first make sure you bios is not over volting your cpu some "default" bios are known to provide more voltage than factory specified next think about re mounting your cooler with some new paste you could have a less than ideal mount. IT took me two tries on my r9 3900x to get the thermal paste perfect perfect on my noctua nh d14
I guess this is why some cases have fan mounts at the bottom of the cases too
I'm quite interested to see how much better a case with a bottom fan would do. Or even one without the psu shroud so the front fans can be mounted lower. In gaming computers the gpu is going to generate the most heat, but most cases seem to optimize for cpu airflow.
Solution for that mesh case: 1) Put some kind of a custom panel in front of the video card, so that all the air from the lower front fan would go to the bottom of the case. 2) Optionally, put a fan on the top of the case, on the outside, to suck some air out with out getting in the way of anything inside. 3) Also optionally, cut holes into the side panel and put fans on there, like some older cases used to have side fans for this exact reason.
Personally I'm really happy with my H500. Just took off the dust filter from the intake and temps are good enough with 70 C on the gpu and about 55-60 on the cpu while under full load. Running a ryzen 5600x with a rtx 3070, 2 120mm intake and exhaust fans.
How is the dust build up?
How do you get the GPU temp so low?
It doesn't help that they installed the fans wrong.
@@penedrador i dust my computer like every 2 months so it's not an issue
Almost exact setup, 3600 + 3070, same here with an old Corsair Spec 02. Better thermals than most 2021 cases.
I dont even have a pc but these videos are VERY entertaining and I learn a lot too. Keep making this funny and educational videos coming.
Great test ,, would be intrested to see the same test in a water cooled system and see if it effects the temps .
Thats good testing, reminds me when Austin pointed a infrared thermometer at the reflective surface
Do you think they could have done something better?
I would love to see this done with the corsair 5000D with three fans in front and three fans on side front with the air dam in place for mobo cooling, and a 3090 with a 360 AIO cpu cooler with 6 fan push pull out the top and a fan in the rear for extra exhaust.
That's the exact setup im running lol 5000D Airflow, 13 fans, rad up top in push pull. Pretty sure its just fine as there is more room for the air to travel. My CPU and GPU both stay chilly.
@@Zalagar619 I’m building the 5000X but the case hasn’t arrived. You mentioned your 6 fan push/pull for the 360 AIO on top. Both sets of both fans mounted on the rad are set to exhaust direction? Inside the case you’ll see the front of the lower set and on the top of your case you’ll see the back of the upper set? I’m considering some fans with RGB on both sides for the top set on top of the rad.
@@Zalagar619 13 fing fans?! I have like 3, a PSU one, Intel stock one, and a GPU one.
Corsair 5000D Airflow is a much bigger case so I think the airflow will improve by a lot.
@@peters.7428 That case can fit 3 on the top, 3 on the front, 3 on the side and 1 in the back. That's 10 fans on the case, without even considering any other component. Then there's the PSU, GPU which generally has 2-3 fans these days and the CPU fan. So a grand total of 15 fans would probably be possible with that case.
I personally have a case which allows me to have 1 large fan on the side, 2 medium sized ones on the top, 1 on the front and 1 on the back. The front and top fans are for intake whereas the side and back are out. I find that has worked really well pretty much regardless of load and components, which have changed throughout the years. It's also fairly quiet even during heavy load.
Reminds me of the test where pick up trucks (so an open cargo space) were testenld on fuel consumption with the back lit open vs closed. People might expect open to be more efficient because the air can leave the cargo area, but with the lit up, it created an air bubble that kept circulating to the point where the ride wind went over it, making it more efficient. So, sometimes airflows are more complicated than you might expect at first thought. (Sorry for bad English)
Hi everyone! Merry Christmas and a happy New year and happy holidays!
I wonder if a dinky little 80mm fan exhausting out the pci-e slots under the gpu would help?
possible, it would be interesting to see.
What’s funny is I just was starting to experience thermal issues with my build this week and I have the H510. This certainly was some timely insight. Thanks, Linus!
would love to see you guys do some stuff with fractal cases sometime, they never seem to end up in any of your content despite being one of the best maufactuers for cases
I've had a teacher tell me it's better to suck air from a heatsink instead of blowing it into it. He said the later could induce turbulence while the former wouldn't. It would be interesting to test this kind of scenario in the lab!
Since heatsinks are generally mounted right next to an exhaust fan, the turbulence doesn't really matter because it's immediately being pulled out of the case. But from my experience, in a tight case, a pull fan isn't better at cooling the heatsink, but is better at making sure air flows better over other components. For example, in my Mini ITX case, the pull fan is basically less than an inch away from the exhaust fan. While the front of the heatsink has much more open space, which means it's able to pull more air over the RAM sticks, motherboard, and back of the GPU.
So while the CPU temperature is basically the same or just slightly hotter, the rest of the case is cooler since there is no fan in the center of the case causing turbulence and sucking fresh air before it can reach other components. The intake fans intake, and the air must go through the entire case before it reaches another fan, meaning not turbulence, making the pull fan act like a second exhaust fan, increasing exhausting power and directing everything directly to the actual exhaust fan with nowhere else for it to go but out.
In a way it makes the heatsink act like a heatsink for other components, because that hot air being sucked through the heatsink, spreads out that heat. And heatsinks are rarely used at their maximum capacity. I've got a 250w rated heatsink, but a 125w CPU. So the temp rises are basically non existent or negligible, and the hot air gets sucked out immediately anyways. So if anything it may actually raise efficiency of the heatsink by causing it to get hotter, which makes the heatpipes circulate quicker. So it all evens out, but provides a benefit to cooling of the rest of the case.
Seeing Linus get perplexed about something related to PCs always warms my heart.
*SENSITIVE CONTENT*
ONNANOKO.TOKYO/machiko
MEGAN : "Hotter"
HOPI : "Sweeter"
JOONIE : "Cooler"
YOONGI : "Butter" .
PETTY : face.
BODY : Beautiful.
SMART : flirt.
Like to eat.
Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались.
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков
#ライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#かならりやばかったですね！１#万人を超える人が見ていたもんね（笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした！#今後は気を付けないとね5). .
!💖🖤❤#今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#１万人を超える人が見ていたも ん（#笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした #今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！（ #笑）#垃圾
whether by coincidence or purposeful, the fact that the video was exactly 32% through when Linus said "why is the video only 1/3rd over?" made my little nerd brain happy
lol I LOVE your videos! I loved the lipsynced "Wow we can run them faster..." part lol lol lol
Many modern PC cases have less than optimal airflow, anything with a bottom PSU is not optimal. Anything with top exhaust is also not optimal for aircooling, but good for water cooling radiators generally. Alot of these details that are good for AIO coolers are bad for air pressure.
If you are going air cooling, get something with bottom and front fans, with no top exhaust. Like a Fractal Torrent or so. That is the best thing next to good chimney effect PC cases which is another really cool concept for air cooling. But usually, a lot of PC cases have water cooling in their minds more than air cooling, like Lian Li, NZXT and Corsair new cases are mostly for AIO watercooling in mind.
Incase you don’t want to watch the video:
NZXT makes small cases, get a bigger case from a different manufacturer and none of this matters; install all the fans you want
Sorry, you forgot to say micro center is sponsoring this video.
0:53 That dead spot is why I love my Lancool Mesh 2 RGB Supermega Bombtastic Airflow, lol. I slapped 2 fans under my GPU blowing nice cool air form the PSU basement and keeps my TUF 3070ti running between 59 and 61. Which usually keeps the GPU clock between 2070 and 2100 mhz.
Although I might re-paste it and get some of this thermal paste goo that I saw some TH-camrs blabbering about lately, for the memory and VRAM.
*SENSITIVE CONTENT*
ONNANOKO.TOKYO/machiko
MEGAN : "Hotter"
HOPI : "Sweeter"
JOONIE : "Cooler"
YOONGI : "Butter" .
PETTY : face.
BODY : Beautiful.
SMART : flirt.
Like to eat.
Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались.
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков
#ライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#かならりやばかったですね！１#万人を超える人が見ていたもんね（笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした！#今後は気を付けないとね5). .
!💖🖤❤#今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#１万人を超える人が見ていたも ん（#笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした #今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！（ #笑）#垃圾
I might have to pick up some fans and do the same
That sounds like a Dawid Does Tech Stuff naming scheme
See, most people don't realize that this is an issue and also don't realize that even just adding a single fan to the bottom of the case will make a huge difference for GPU temps. Even without the mesh basement side panel that the lancool has, it will still help to direct that air from the intake to the GPU. My air cooled 2080 ti never gets above 72C under heavy load
The concern with fans at the bottom is pulling a lot of dust off of the floor.
The most optimal solution would be to use a pci-e extender to have the gpu in a separate chamber with its own intake and exhaust so it won't heat up the air that the cpu is eating and vice versa
Cant wait to see this type of experiment on other popular tower configs
"YEAH - we got one!"
** wheeze** *picks up tweezers
Can't wait for the new building to get its own F1 spec wind tunnel to test these cases in future!
*SENSITIVE CONTENT*
ONNANOKO.TOKYO/machiko
MEGAN : "Hotter"
HOPI : "Sweeter"
JOONIE : "Cooler"
YOONGI : "Butter" .
PETTY : face.
BODY : Beautiful.
SMART : flirt.
Like to eat.
Жизнь, как красивая мелодия, только песни перепутались.
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков
#ライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#かならりやばかったですね！１#万人を超える人が見ていたもんね（笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした！#今後は気を付けないとね5). .
!💖🖤❤#今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！#この日のライブ配信は、#１万人を超える人が見ていたも ん（#笑）#やっぱり人参最高！#まさかのカメラ切り忘れでやら1かしたのもドキドキでした #今後は気をライブ配信の再編ありがとうです！（ #笑）#垃圾
Lmao
What would happen if you put a small piece of cardboard or plastic from the GPU to in between the two front intake fans? That way one pushes air to the CPU, and the other other (hopefully) pushes air under the GPU
I believe it would require separate exhaust for GPU side (there is none apparently), but that will solve it.
Makes sense. The non-mesh one probably pulls more of a vacuum, drawing in more air from micro-gaps in the case itself, causing more balanced airflow paths.
I love that you made this video at 4:20.
The explanation of "turbulence" sounds weird to me in the way you explained it and may cause some confusion. Usually turbulence helps in heat transfer processes and the only thing you should care is the residence time of the air, that is how long is the air inside a confined volume.
That assuming the mixture of air is relatively homogeneous inside (not talking only about composition here, but also state), which is not the case here. If you have a dead zone below the card, then you have to wonder what's creating that dead zone, but I think it's certainly not because of the turbulence and it's probably a problem of local pressures created by the limitations of the flow through the card itself and its exhaust, then turbulence may somehow aggravate the problem as explained, which is not clear, nor I'm an expert to tell you what exactly it is.
If you think that's the problem, and as you explained the turbulence is being generarted by the thickness of the card, you may try to add a little 3D printed wing at the end of the card that cuts air smoothly to prove your point.
Also I've always thought that placing the graphics card vertically may help in these cases as it should smoothly connect the lower half of the case with the upper half, instead of creating chambers when you place the card horizontally, but never seen it tested, it may be an interesting idea to test.
Anyways, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos bro.
They did mention the pressure being a problem with the increased fan in the front. My guess is that turbulence in this case reduced the ability of the air to easily exit the case
Not enough open exits for air below the gpu (bless those detachable covers for additional PCI devices), too much sucking power above the GPU. Air gets in the case, some bits of it try to go below the GPU but quickly get sucked back by double CPU fans and exit fan. Like as you draw Z starting from the bottom.
Possible solution: additional fan below the GPU to try to equalize the air flow, remove back covers and add another fan there.
I saw one test on TH-cam comparing vertical GPU vs flat/normal mount. The vertical mounted one got hotter.
@@ItsameDesire That's what I meant by "local pressures created by the limitations of the flow through the card itself and its exhaust"
I've been thinking for a while that modern cases should have an option to insert a fan there. I recognize that is somewhat difficult to implement, but if you were to place a fan right outside the expansion slots, you should have enough space to mount a 120mm fan (and leave only the slot of the gpu that takes the wires out).
An easier solution would be to bring back cases that allow a fan on the window, that is if we care about the temps more than the looks.
@@alylu-to-esutej this is what I meant by "and the only thing you should care is the residence time of the air"
and that's easy to prove, you just need to measure the mean time that air is inside the case and you do that by measuring how much air enters (or exits) then divide the volume of the case by the measured flow. if the time of residence is higher after adding more fans then, the problem may be related to that.
...................
you can measure either the intake or the exhaust because you assume that the system reaches an equilibrium after a while (the ammount of air that enters is the same that the ammount of air that exits) if that wasn't the case, that would mean that mass (air) is accumulating inside, if that were to continue for a while then your case would explode, as that doesn't happen then intake = exhaust.
This doesn't mean there's no difference in pressure between the interior and exterior of the case as someone may infer. Before the equilibrium there's a short period of imbalance in which mass accumulates inside the case and builds a small ammount of internal pressure.
The more pressure it builds, the more difficult it will be for the fans to move air inside the case, that may be what you're referring to.
I've never been a fan(get it?) of "traditional" vertical mobo cases, instead I opt for cubic cases(like thermaltakes core V series) with horizontal mobos, that way you can expose the gpu to direct and heatsink fin oriented airflow with the plexi window on top of the case, while both "sides" are intakes. I get that that case series looks horrible to many people, but once you get a hot cpu and a chonky gpu, you need cooling, not looks. A 3080, ~300-400w depending on exact model and settings, a moderately powerful cpu like a 5900x or the intel equal ~120-200w depending on the oc. That's 400-600w of total heat output(unrealistic, yes, but a good spec to match your cooling solution to, incase you live somewhere "hot"). That's like having a bread toaster in your case.
Put the heating element in your case and you get a bad oven, you need to consider cooling it.
I did the same with my corsair carbide air 740: Put it on the side, window on top. So GPU and CPU cooler can't even sack and the 'bottom' is free to suck air in to the GPU. I removed the feet so it looks more symmetrical and put some wooden slats under it to have air for PSU from the bottom. It is big, open, cold and safe - love it. I really needed to search for a case like this.
While not a cubic case, this is one of the reasons I am a fan of the Coolermaster NR200. It's not a perfect case, but it places its power supply up top leaving a completely flat and mesh bottom for the horizontal GPU configuration to sit on top of. even with many beefy GPUs, slim size fans can fit under it and pull air and blast it directly at the GPU, leaving it to run super cool, rather than having measly front intake leftovers like a lot of cases with a bottom power supply shroud. CPU thermals can struggle a little bit because of this config but I've found them mostly satisfactory.
Yup. I have a Bitfenix Prodigy, and it's great to work with. I cutout a window in the GPU-side panel, so it's got all the ventilation it needs. I'll put a window there if I end up watercooling the GPU later.
THANK YOU!! THANK YOU THANK YOU! right you can bassically the hot air up and away with a case like that and have a lot better airflow.
coolmasters boxy case they did a build with a few years ago is fucking cool (waah waah waaah waaaah trombone sound). and doesn't have this retarteded need to work against physics and gravity as well that's (yet another) reason this dumb thing the industry has with only vertical cases. GPU's are no so heavy they bend eventually if, ya know, you use just a few thin pieces of metal. but horizontally that's not a problem, well made screws and gravity will keep all the parts together for decades.
2:37 you gotta love that verge reference 😂
Great video! Would love to see your thoughts on the Cougar Puritas RGB tower, this case pulls air in and out of the edges of the tempered glass panels. Also has place for fans near the motherboard panel that will pull from the side panel
For me this calls for a divider, wich creates seperate compartments for the CPU and GPU wich are supplied by the bottom and top fan behind the front mesh. And additional aerodynamic shrouds for the GPU cooler housing to disable any turbulance and create good airflow towards the GPU fans.