Are you looking forward to the future RK3588s handhelds? Firefly is holding a program for fans to work with their engineers to personalize their own RK3588 PC: www.stationpc.com/exploreplan
@@richarddukard8989 Ye this soc is like $200 on its own. Even with discounts, handhelds with this at the current time would probably cost over $350. Which means its pointless because you can buy a ayn odin pro for less than that. And a steam deck for a little more
I remember when you barely started and we would talk all the time in the comment section I’m glad to see how much your channel has grown! God bless and keep up to the great work!
This is definitely exciting. I have an old Lenovo Yoga Y500 Laptop that I sometimes use for emulation. It has slightly better Geekbench scores at 678 Single Core and 2489 multi. It's no graphics powerhouse at this point with it's NVIDIA GeForce GT650M graphics card and a Timespy score of 603. Yet it runs Gamecube, Wii, and PS2 Emulation at Full Speed on a 15 inch 1080p screen with no problems. This little board should be amazing in a handheld.
While its cool , its just way too expensive to make any sense in a retro handheld currently. I can see it making its way down in price in a few years tho then it would probably be great. But this soc costs like $200, even with discounts from mass purchases that means a retro handheld with this soc would be like $300-350 minimum. Makes no sense when you can get an AYN Odin Pro for less than that, and a steam deck for just a little more
TBH I already sick with many Emulation reviewer who keep saying this is powerful to play anything, this is probably just me but I more than happy with my cheap phone who can play up to NDS and PSP.
@@bhirawamaylana466 What do you mean? Don't you like a device that can play up to ps2? But anyway it's about a person needs; if you care for psp and less, that's really just good on you! But then we had devices that could play those games for a very long time already, so it's only natural that the further we go, the more powerful chips are going to be
I don't get it. There are plenty of Galaxy Note 10s or comparable used phones on ebay for $200. Pair it with one of those Razer controllers, and you have a snapdragon 855 portable handheld thats separate from your daily driver phone (idk why people are so obsessed with having a dedicated device)
Can't wait to see Cortex A77/A78 to hit the SBC market. Together with 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes that could be split into 4 1x ports using a PLX switch some shockingly capable mini servers should be possible.
Wow, this is great to see. Finally a small SBC that can handle all the standard def consoles for a reasonable price. Another revision or two to smooth things out and it will definitely be something to pick up.
3ds emulator Citra is still work in progress. Oh man i never had 3ds because it is not available in my country so I play on my mobile via Citra emulator. The emulator run fines on some games but my phone got so much hotter other emulators are not get hot like this. On other side Nintendo ds emulator drastic is so much optimised that I can play any games on it. When i had 1 gb ram phone in 2014 i run drastic emulator games smoothly than ppsspp emulator.
This is in a way much better than some x86 boards that were available some time ago. Every time I see this kind of stuff, I dream of a new handheld system...
you would think but not really just remember the emulation performance this is demonstrating is akin to the performance you would get in a high end pentium or core 2 duo CPU as ps2 does not need much performance it just needs the right kind of CPU which is where cpus differ you might take a arm CPU and say a intel CPU and think of the specs are alike but arm is a different CPU and has different features for emulation these matter the biggest difference I can tell you about that effects emulation is opengl x86 and x64 architecture cpus have full opengl which many emulators leverage arm series cpus have opengl ES which doesn't run as well and doesn't have the full features of open fl also things like vulkan and other technologies make a difference finally developer support makes a huge difference almost everything you can think of in emulation has x64 and 86 builds for it but the embedded systems not so much and with so many boards and chips available getting anyone to develop for them is hard raspberry pi did well because of its high adoption so it gave a clear platform to target comparatively odroid xu4 had very little and it wasn't until various teams worked on it that its power began to demonstrate itself and infact once team ORA got some emu devs to make builds tailored for it that its true power became evident with its performance doubling and almost tripling in some cases so what is on paper for specs is almost meaningless
the switch uses a 5 year old arm tegra SOC. these other arm chips don't actually have to do much emulation, just have a decent gpu and a driver that works.
@@PaulSpades I didn't think about that aspect; i.e., since they both use ARM architecture, the emulation layer won't be nearly as "thick" as, say, if a switch emu were running on an x86-based machine. If they ever have these or Khadas boards (another high performance RockChip based SBC you've probably heard of) back in stock, I'm definitely using one for my portable emulation handheld. Let's hope that these aren't more small companies which fall victim to the supply chain shortage and go out of business.
That is quite the boost in performance and I'm into it... Makes me wish I had a dev setup and knew what to do with it to tinker around with these things
Dude, you're the best for taking technical lingo and relaying it to the average consumer. I just point all my customers in your direction and with top notch content like this, I will continue to do so in our shop. Thank you "Retro Neil deGrasse Tyson"! You've turned curiosity into customers, customers into competitors and creators themselves. We have a thriving local retro scene here, and we owe alot of that credit and inspiration to you. Cheers Taki!
I know I speak for a few, but I also find it rough to hear audio hitching when describing emulation performance as flawless, it gives an uncertainty. I would advice to get a better capture method or at the very least inform the viewer of this problem before the review starts.
This is very impressive performance. I can't wait to see the handheld this chip will end up in. I'm hopeful that the Skyline team can make even more strides because I'm still searching for the handheld that can emulate all the way up the line. I'd rather run android for my handheld, but the AMD 6000 series has so much power behind it I'm pretty sure it's going to get there first. With the Ayn Loki Max in the pipeline and it's small form factor of the Ayn Odin, it's a very compelling proposition. The only downside is that I have to run windows until Steam OS is refined.
Imagine this in a laptop with boosted clocks ofcourse. Maxed out GPU and cpu. A newer chip probably would reach i3 levels of performance while drawing about 15 watts. That will improve battery life so much NGL. Kinda like the macbooks. Almost 4 times the battery life of most x86 laptops.
You've had access to the Dimensity 1200 even, and of course the Snapdragon 845 featured in the AYN Odin. Taki, what do you think? Can this actually be put in a handheld you think? Or is it simply too power hungry to where it could never cool?
sometimes Affinity control mode on AetherSX2 slow downs certain games, please make sure to turn off or ON depends on varieties of games, also Multi-threaded VU1, hope this helps
Honestly, this board almost seems like a competitor to the Steam deck more than a traditional emulation board. It's possible, though somewhat impractical, to run PC games through box 86 / 64 and Wine on Linux, and I'm willing to bet that you could play actual PC games on this thing. I suspect this would be most useful for people looking to find a smaller sized Steamdeck, and I'm sure at this thing's power draw, you could probably make a Switch sized (or smaller) handheld using it.
this board has an ARM CPU, right? so ... wine won't help with PC games because PC games are made for x86 CPUs and wine does not do CPU emulation ... and because of the massive amound of performce required to emulate moderately modern CPUs, it is safe to assume that using an actual emulator like box86 or qemu will only be good for some really old PC games or new games with VERY low system requirements ... so ... nope ... this SBC is not a steam deck competitor ... not even close ... maybe someone might turn this SBC into something that is a kickass ARM gaming device in its own right
@@KenjiUmino I think you missed a step. Box 86 and Box 64 are compatibility layers, to x86 and ARM what Wine is to Windows and Linux. They convert many x86 system calls into ones that an ARM CPU can understand and maintain the native Open GL and Vulkan libraries present on both platforms to keep performance surprisingly comparable in things like games. In and of itself, Wine wouldn't be terribly useful on an ARM device, other than maybe running Windows on ARM programs on an ARM Linux installation, but you can use Wine in a Box 64 wrapper for instance to play a Windows game in Linux (via wine) and then translate that to an ARM compatible executable via Box 64. It's a super cool technology and a very fun rabbit hole to go down. :D
@@novantha1 github page says box86 IS an emulator ... it talks about all the stuff other emulators talk about ... how the dynamic recompiler is faster than the interpreter and so on ... so that is plain old emulation for the CPU side at least ... for the GPU side you might get away with handing vulkan calls straight to the host OS but if the software does not use vulkan, you'll have to convert GL to GL ES by whatever means necessary ... some form of compatibility layer might do without causing too much overhead ... you know ... it has all been tried before and done before and said before and I heard all this talk about how this new emulator X is so much more faster and more better and more efficient than emulator Y but in the end they are ALL the same. you can't run x86 code on an ARM computer without a noticeable performance hit - you. just. can't.
@@KenjiUmino Regarding OpenGL at least, you often don't need an OpenGL -> OpenGL ES conversion as the Panfrost drivers, for instance, will cover OpenGL support for many ARM boards currently in active use, meaning you can take out another major barrier to gaming on an ARM SBC. As for your other points, you might say that you can't run games well on an ARM board, but I see people doing it regularly, and even get away with it myself often enough. I'm not sure what your point is; I'm happy with the gaming performance on these boards and am excited about them as an enthusiast. What's not to love?
in serveral captured emulations i hear sound dissortions, is it in the emulation or is a progress com capturing / mastering going wrong? mainly noticible in the background melodies or engine sounds.
I am starting to wonder what the difference is between like - this board, the orange pi 5 series, the edge 2 etc. like the specs are the same, in the case of the opi5 ive got a board with dual channel 16gb but im struggling to find a vulkan driver on anything other than android, and because i have steam running on linux id prefer to get vulkan running so i could do everything your doing plus play x86 pc games, since i can already play x86 linux native titles. In fact didn't taki show the edge 2 doing just that? how do you enable steam proton on these rk3588s with mali g610 mp4 graphics 8-16gb ram etc they're all oddly the same. So like how did he get proton working? I've tried wine, I've done box86, box 64, panfork, mesa, etc etc
Did you find a solution this? I have been wanting to get emulation working on this for a while now. I swapped the OS to the station M3 OS and that worked well to make the android experience less clunky. I still have not been able to get something like batocera linux or a decent front end to work in android to use this thing. It's been sitting in a drawer almost since when I bought it a year ago.
Hi, in the preview image, you showed an handheld device. When people present this kind of SBC, are there any "universal devices" ready to plug your sbc into? did you plugged your sbc into it or is "just to put it into the backround"? (no mean intended) also cause of the large fan and heating dissipation device you showed. Thanks in advance
@Enter Name thanks, I thought so and it seemed a switch lite, but with psp and the other stuff aside and all the handhelds, I thought it could have been a kinda knock-off or similar of a switch
I am also hoping someone knows how to install this. I purchased this board based on his video but no one since has ever explained how to get retropie/emulationstation/batocera to be installed. Basically, I can not use this board until someone does (what a waste). Tried android but it's not as clean and easy to use that way for emulation. Hope someone figures this out soon. I may try making a boot image on an sd card for some of the other similar rk3588s boards and see if I get luck and it boots.
@@julianputnam8290 agreed the 351MP has the absolute perfect form factor for handhelds. Unfortunate that Anbernic seems to be leaving it behind for those really odd design choices.
I just hope Anbernic makes that Android Handheld I'm waiting for. Personally upscaling on any Handheld without a Widescreen is pointless to me. Upscaling is mostly for if you want to play the games on your TV or Computer Screen.
I only catch afew of these videos every now and then. Is this hardware in a handheld right now? And you say gamecube and 3ds dont work well.... does that mean unplayable? Cause the gamecube stuff looked decent.
Hey Taki! Can you test the Avatar (The Last Airbender) games someday in your reviews? For some reason, I always get color errors in them when using hardware rendering. At first I thought it was because of the device (Mediatek Helio G80), but the same happened in my notebook using PCSX2. Now I don't know if the problem is related to configuration, the ROM used or something about the emulators.
Mr Taki, I been enjoying your videos and reviews since you started, could you please recomend me what computer/affordable may I get to run ps2 and wii U flaulessy (and not burn it), I did not have a good enough ones to run them well
If you want an affordable device would recommend current handheld consoles such as the Odin, steam deck. I have the aya neo which is more expensive but runs ps2 games perfectly using the pscx2 emulator
If your fans got 3 wires shouldn't it be hooked up to a PWM built into the board? As if it was just a straight 3.3-5v it'd only need a +/- terminals to power it
@@tamim4235 of course not. And it costs more than they do. But most importantly, portable consoles on Pentium and Celeron are cheaper, more powerful and have the entire library of windows games. + more performance in emulators.
Odin Lite if you never use the fan. If you are talking about devices that don't even include a fan at all, you'd be looking at something like the RP2+.
The RK3588 could be a game changer for ARM devices at the lower end of the SBC/TV Box/handheld market. Once they start to get into Intel/AMD price territory though, appeal will wane except for perhaps gaming handhelds. As nice as the Firefly model is concerned, the price looks high and when the Radxa model is finally available, it will look considerably more attractive at its lower price point. The game demo was impressive and it was nice to see a great variety on display. One way or another, I will be ditching AMLogic for this SOC when we se the full range of products on offer.
This build of Dolphin would give better performance to you on the SD if there was a port. The closest thing you could get would be to try the ishiiruka dolphin build.
Cool board definitely. Just too expensive in my opinion. Firefly’s 3588s 8 g ram 64 g emmc is over 320$ ! Too high. The Rock5b is more affordable although who knows when (or at this point if) this “fabled” single board computer is gonna be released
Ya, it's kind of strange that Firefly is on to their second (3rd?) 3588 product when other companies haven't put out their first. I don't know how they got this much of a lead over the competition. Their products are usually priced higher than others, but they do provide OTA software updates for several of their boards, so they must spread out the cost for a lot of things.
SBCs are getting mighty close to be playing upto PS3/X360 era, thats when I will go for one an upgrade over my Pi4. Ive heard AMD want to start making GPUs for SBCs using their RDNA technology, that will be interesting :D
My Poco F3 has a 40% higher benchmark score with a custom rom, it doesn't require active cooling and it's just a smartphone... Am I crazy or these devices are just not necessary? What's the appeal? The integrated game pad?
@@bulletpunch9317 I haven't tried for a few months- maybe citris has had some good updates, or maybe the play store version is nerfed. That geekbench score is pretty weak, you're right. Makes me wonder why I wouldn't just buy a Galaxy S10 with a cracked screen for less, and still get better performance...
The Snapdragon 888 is generally heavily throttled on a phone and never has a good chance to "stretch it's legs." An SBC doesn't have this problem, especially with active cooling. I have the S21 so I'm aware of the strengths and limitations of the chip.
it is a amazing performance i hope you can make one more video about this Tiny Chip i want se more of switch enulator also wii u and ps3 and xbox i think those systems work well to
All these damn hand held coming out I can’t keep up. I just bought a decent Samsung tablet for gameboy and DS emulation and bought a dell G15 for everything else (ps1 ps2 Xbox etc) so far so good 😊
@@hinfinity really good in my opinion it’s so cool having a handheld device that can play pc games and many emulators. Even has a dock available so you can play it on a television also in my opinion the seven inch screen and size of the device is perfect as it’s about the same size as my og switch with the hori split con controllers attached. Also what I love is that it has Xbox style controls so most games are already setup plus it has a game record feature so you can record gameplay and take screenshots which is really useful
Also if you’re having to mess with settings just to get the emulators to work then that isn’t good. Which is why with anything from nes to ps1 these days anything up to ps1 will always run smoothly
I'm so fuckin' bad when it comes to hardware I wouldn't even know how to set this thing up. I really just want a handheld that can reliably run PS2. I was using my phone for a minute but the performance isn't all that amazing. Edit: affordable, preferably. $400 is like the max I'll drop on this endeavor.
There is a great tutorial online for the pcsx2 ps2 emulator I followed it worked perfectly and have ps2 games on my aya neo including: crash twinsanity, futurama, ratchet and clank, ratchet and clank 2, raw danger!, disaster report, simpsons hit and run plus GameCube/wii, Dreamcast, PSP, ds, gba, SNES emulators
@@SindyxLotus yes it is that much, but I surprisingly came into some money and purchased one don’t regret it at all it’s awesome having a handheld device that plays pc games and also loads of emulators!
The expense is way too much there's much better stuff out there. It's a good video though very honest video Until the End, which I think is misleading because the switch games that we're shown are basic 2D games. When it can run 3D games, then I'll be more impressed, but at this time, it's way too much money when you have much better systems out there. Good review, but, Hopefully, this wasn't sponsored by the actual company.
Some emulators support texture packs, and given how powerful is this SBC (along with the 8gb of RAM), it shouldn't have issues running them. Especially convenient to enhance these games on a big screen. Please make a video testing this, it's never seen outside PC realm.
@@bulletpunch9317 But at this point you also have texture packs for Dreamcast, N64, PS1, PS2, PSP, 3DS. Not sure about current support on Android emulators though.
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pZbsSDRrmXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Are you looking forward to the future RK3588s handhelds?
Firefly is holding a program for fans to work with their engineers to personalize their own RK3588 PC: www.stationpc.com/exploreplan
Si
Please no 366s
Not looking forward to the price tags
🤦♂️No. We are looking forward to the review and tests of the Pentium 8505 and Celeron 7305.
@@richarddukard8989 Ye this soc is like $200 on its own. Even with discounts, handhelds with this at the current time would probably cost over $350. Which means its pointless because you can buy a ayn odin pro for less than that. And a steam deck for a little more
I remember when you barely started and we would talk all the time in the comment section
I’m glad to see how much your channel has grown! God bless and keep up to the great work!
This is definitely exciting. I have an old Lenovo Yoga Y500 Laptop that I sometimes use for emulation. It has slightly better Geekbench scores at 678 Single Core and 2489 multi. It's no graphics powerhouse at this point with it's NVIDIA GeForce GT650M graphics card and a Timespy score of 603. Yet it runs Gamecube, Wii, and PS2 Emulation at Full Speed on a 15 inch 1080p screen with no problems. This little board should be amazing in a handheld.
While its cool , its just way too expensive to make any sense in a retro handheld currently. I can see it making its way down in price in a few years tho then it would probably be great. But this soc costs like $200, even with discounts from mass purchases that means a retro handheld with this soc would be like $300-350 minimum. Makes no sense when you can get an AYN Odin Pro for less than that, and a steam deck for just a little more
Don't forget the new Aya neo and ayn 300 handhelds, unless an android handheld with this costed less than 200 i don't think it would sell well.
TBH I already sick with many Emulation reviewer who keep saying this is powerful to play anything, this is probably just me but I more than happy with my cheap phone who can play up to NDS and PSP.
For those that want a more pocketable portable, and don't mind the premium, it wouldn't be bad
@@bhirawamaylana466 What do you mean? Don't you like a device that can play up to ps2? But anyway it's about a person needs; if you care for psp and less, that's really just good on you! But then we had devices that could play those games for a very long time already, so it's only natural that the further we go, the more powerful chips are going to be
I don't get it. There are plenty of Galaxy Note 10s or comparable used phones on ebay for $200. Pair it with one of those Razer controllers, and you have a snapdragon 855 portable handheld thats separate from your daily driver phone (idk why people are so obsessed with having a dedicated device)
Can't wait to see Cortex A77/A78 to hit the SBC market. Together with 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes that could be split into 4 1x ports using a PLX switch some shockingly capable mini servers should be possible.
Wow, this is great to see. Finally a small SBC that can handle all the standard def consoles for a reasonable price. Another revision or two to smooth things out and it will definitely be something to pick up.
3ds emulator Citra is still work in progress. Oh man i never had 3ds because it is not available in my country so I play on my mobile via Citra emulator. The emulator run fines on some games but my phone got so much hotter other emulators are not get hot like this. On other side Nintendo ds emulator drastic is so much optimised that I can play any games on it. When i had 1 gb ram phone in 2014 i run drastic emulator games smoothly than ppsspp emulator.
This is in a way much better than some x86 boards that were available some time ago. Every time I see this kind of stuff, I dream of a new handheld system...
@ Not AN AMD Nor Nvidia nor Intel fan If you can get one in your country, it sure is.
you would think but not really just remember the emulation performance this is demonstrating is akin to the performance you would get in a high end pentium or core 2 duo CPU as ps2 does not need much performance it just needs the right kind of CPU
which is where cpus differ you might take a arm CPU and say a intel CPU and think of the specs are alike but arm is a different CPU and has different features for emulation these matter
the biggest difference I can tell you about that effects emulation is opengl x86 and x64 architecture cpus have full opengl which many emulators leverage arm series cpus have opengl ES which doesn't run as well and doesn't have the full features of open fl
also things like vulkan and other technologies make a difference
finally developer support makes a huge difference almost everything you can think of in emulation has x64 and 86 builds for it but the embedded systems not so much and with so many boards and chips available getting anyone to develop for them is hard raspberry pi did well because of its high adoption so it gave a clear platform to target
comparatively odroid xu4 had very little and it wasn't until various teams worked on it that its power began to demonstrate itself and infact once team ORA got some emu devs to make builds tailored for it that its true power became evident with its performance doubling and almost tripling in some cases
so what is on paper for specs is almost meaningless
The fact that an SBC which costs a little over half that of a Switch can run ANY of the same games, especially under emulation, is amazing.
The switch is over 4 years old shut up about it. It was outdated on the cpu when it came out.
@@shlokshah5379 Me on my way to find out who asked
the switch uses a 5 year old arm tegra SOC. these other arm chips don't actually have to do much emulation, just have a decent gpu and a driver that works.
@@PaulSpades I didn't think about that aspect; i.e., since they both use ARM architecture, the emulation layer won't be nearly as "thick" as, say, if a switch emu were running on an x86-based machine. If they ever have these or Khadas boards (another high performance RockChip based SBC you've probably heard of) back in stock, I'm definitely using one for my portable emulation handheld. Let's hope that these aren't more small companies which fall victim to the supply chain shortage and go out of business.
That is quite the boost in performance and I'm into it... Makes me wish I had a dev setup and knew what to do with it to tinker around with these things
1 year later and we finally have the first retro handheld boasting this chip. I hope to see you do a review of the GF Ace soon!
it´s Amazing what this tiny little beast can do.... thanks for all the information and keep that good work.-
OMG crazy amazing performance! I was hoping you test rogue galaxy on ps2, still this is amazing. Cant wait this get implement on handheld!
I'll add that game to my testing set.
@@TakiUdon YES! Thank you so much.
It should run at full speed.
Dude, you're the best for taking technical lingo and relaying it to the average consumer. I just point all my customers in your direction and with top notch content like this, I will continue to do so in our shop. Thank you "Retro Neil deGrasse Tyson"! You've turned curiosity into customers, customers into competitors and creators themselves. We have a thriving local retro scene here, and we owe alot of that credit and inspiration to you. Cheers Taki!
Thanks for the birthday surprise Taki
God of War: constant audio skipping
Taki: "PSP emulation is flawless on this board"
That's from my capture card, not the device.
@@TakiUdon maybe get a new capture card?
@@pass-the-juice maybe believe him?
never fully trust reviewers.
I know I speak for a few, but I also find it rough to hear audio hitching when describing emulation performance as flawless, it gives an uncertainty.
I would advice to get a better capture method or at the very least inform the viewer of this problem before the review starts.
Love this!!! Great video dude!
This is very impressive performance. I can't wait to see the handheld this chip will end up in. I'm hopeful that the Skyline team can make even more strides because I'm still searching for the handheld that can emulate all the way up the line. I'd rather run android for my handheld, but the AMD 6000 series has so much power behind it I'm pretty sure it's going to get there first. With the Ayn Loki Max in the pipeline and it's small form factor of the Ayn Odin, it's a very compelling proposition. The only downside is that I have to run windows until Steam OS is refined.
It's going to be a while.
The eta prime emulation is very good too!
2:34 What's the name of this game?
very cool. you earned 1 new sub!
Love the new intro
Please I need the name of the game, u got the intro sound from
Imagine this in a laptop with boosted clocks ofcourse. Maxed out GPU and cpu. A newer chip probably would reach i3 levels of performance while drawing about 15 watts. That will improve battery life so much NGL. Kinda like the macbooks. Almost 4 times the battery life of most x86 laptops.
You've had access to the Dimensity 1200 even, and of course the Snapdragon 845 featured in the AYN Odin.
Taki, what do you think? Can this actually be put in a handheld you think? Or is it simply too power hungry to where it could never cool?
Good Question, What about a custom Steam Deck 2 chip that runs Android
sometimes Affinity control mode on AetherSX2 slow downs certain games, please make sure to turn off or ON depends on varieties of games, also Multi-threaded VU1, hope this helps
What was the second Android game he played after Diablo?
EDIT: To answer my own question - It's Dead Cells on Android.
Honestly, this board almost seems like a competitor to the Steam deck more than a traditional emulation board. It's possible, though somewhat impractical, to run PC games through box 86 / 64 and Wine on Linux, and I'm willing to bet that you could play actual PC games on this thing. I suspect this would be most useful for people looking to find a smaller sized Steamdeck, and I'm sure at this thing's power draw, you could probably make a Switch sized (or smaller) handheld using it.
this board has an ARM CPU, right?
so ... wine won't help with PC games because PC games are made for x86 CPUs and wine does not do CPU emulation ... and because of the massive amound of performce required to emulate moderately modern CPUs, it is safe to assume that using an actual emulator like box86 or qemu will only be good for some really old PC games or new games with VERY low system requirements ... so ... nope ... this SBC is not a steam deck competitor ... not even close ...
maybe someone might turn this SBC into something that is a kickass ARM gaming device in its own right
@@KenjiUmino I think you missed a step. Box 86 and Box 64 are compatibility layers, to x86 and ARM what Wine is to Windows and Linux. They convert many x86 system calls into ones that an ARM CPU can understand and maintain the native Open GL and Vulkan libraries present on both platforms to keep performance surprisingly comparable in things like games.
In and of itself, Wine wouldn't be terribly useful on an ARM device, other than maybe running Windows on ARM programs on an ARM Linux installation, but you can use Wine in a Box 64 wrapper for instance to play a Windows game in Linux (via wine) and then translate that to an ARM compatible executable via Box 64.
It's a super cool technology and a very fun rabbit hole to go down. :D
@@novantha1 github page says box86 IS an emulator ... it talks about all the stuff other emulators talk about ... how the dynamic recompiler is faster than the interpreter and so on ... so that is plain old emulation for the CPU side at least ...
for the GPU side you might get away with handing vulkan calls straight to the host OS but if the software does not use vulkan, you'll have to convert GL to GL ES by whatever means necessary ... some form of compatibility layer might do without causing too much overhead ...
you know ... it has all been tried before and done before and said before and I heard all this talk about how this new emulator X is so much more faster and more better and more efficient than emulator Y but in the end they are ALL the same.
you can't run x86 code on an ARM computer without a noticeable performance hit - you. just. can't.
@@KenjiUmino Regarding OpenGL at least, you often don't need an OpenGL -> OpenGL ES conversion as the Panfrost drivers, for instance, will cover OpenGL support for many ARM boards currently in active use, meaning you can take out another major barrier to gaming on an ARM SBC.
As for your other points, you might say that you can't run games well on an ARM board, but I see people doing it regularly, and even get away with it myself often enough.
I'm not sure what your point is; I'm happy with the gaming performance on these boards and am excited about them as an enthusiast. What's not to love?
What button mapping do you use for games like Super Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword on Wii?
SMG = wiimote shake x/y/z all bound to L2 or R2.
@@TakiUdon how about the pointer? is it working or are you using Skip EFB access in hacks settings to run the game at full speed?
Imagine
a tiny raspberry pi like device running GameCube!
The intro sound familiar, what game is that 🤔
At the moment I am trying to build my own laptop inside an old 2006 MacBook case, I think this sbc would be the perfect fit for that
For the Citra emulator, which version did you use? Is it the Google Play/Official one?
Citra mmj
MMJ (build was from two weeks back).
Ah i see, thank you for the answers because Official version seems to have a hard time running any games i give to it
No entiendo el inglés pero new sub Compa uff se vienen buenos tiempos con proyectos legendarios 🇲🇽✨🤘🏻
Gotta wait a few years if you want this in a small device at a low price. Great performance though.
Finally something that can run Dragon Quest 🔥😁
in serveral captured emulations i hear sound dissortions, is it in the emulation or is a progress com capturing / mastering going wrong?
mainly noticible in the background melodies or engine sounds.
Almost all the games shown had weird stuttery audio, is that from the emulation itself or a capture issue?
Awsome vid as always. Thinking of getting this SBC. Can you do a vid on how to set it up for emulation
Cool board but is there a Handheld Shell we can use to put this in and play?
I am starting to wonder what the difference is between like - this board, the orange pi 5 series, the edge 2 etc. like the specs are the same, in the case of the opi5 ive got a board with dual channel 16gb but im struggling to find a vulkan driver on anything other than android, and because i have steam running on linux id prefer to get vulkan running so i could do everything your doing plus play x86 pc games, since i can already play x86 linux native titles. In fact didn't taki show the edge 2 doing just that? how do you enable steam proton on these rk3588s with mali g610 mp4 graphics 8-16gb ram etc they're all oddly the same. So like how did he get proton working? I've tried wine, I've done box86, box 64, panfork, mesa, etc etc
Did you find a solution this? I have been wanting to get emulation working on this for a while now. I swapped the OS to the station M3 OS and that worked well to make the android experience less clunky. I still have not been able to get something like batocera linux or a decent front end to work in android to use this thing. It's been sitting in a drawer almost since when I bought it a year ago.
Do you think that a gamepad and screen, like those rg350 with batery might fit?
Hi, in the preview image, you showed an handheld device.
When people present this kind of SBC, are there any "universal devices" ready to plug your sbc into? did you plugged your sbc into it or is "just to put it into the backround"? (no mean intended) also cause of the large fan and heating dissipation device you showed.
Thanks in advance
@Enter Name thanks, I thought so and it seemed a switch lite, but with psp and the other stuff aside and all the handhelds, I thought it could have been a kinda knock-off or similar of a switch
do you think batocera would go clean on it???
I am also hoping someone knows how to install this. I purchased this board based on his video but no one since has ever explained how to get retropie/emulationstation/batocera to be installed. Basically, I can not use this board until someone does (what a waste). Tried android but it's not as clean and easy to use that way for emulation. Hope someone figures this out soon. I may try making a boot image on an sd card for some of the other similar rk3588s boards and see if I get luck and it boots.
I wish I could put this chip in my RG351MP it’s my favorite I just wish it had more power then I’d say it’s the perfect pocket machine
This soc costs almost as much as a AYN Odin pro dude
@@Robstrap worth it for me I don’t want anything larger than my RG351MP and I love that device so much
@@julianputnam8290 agreed the 351MP has the absolute perfect form factor for handhelds. Unfortunate that Anbernic seems to be leaving it behind for those really odd design choices.
I just hope Anbernic makes that Android Handheld I'm waiting for. Personally upscaling on any Handheld without a Widescreen is pointless to me. Upscaling is mostly for if you want to play the games on your TV or Computer Screen.
What is the best value or "budget" pick for an SBC for full speed Dolphin emulation? Thank you!
I only catch afew of these videos every now and then. Is this hardware in a handheld right now? And you say gamecube and 3ds dont work well.... does that mean unplayable? Cause the gamecube stuff looked decent.
Which android rom are you using in the video?
Hey Taki! Can you test the Avatar (The Last Airbender) games someday in your reviews?
For some reason, I always get color errors in them when using hardware rendering. At first I thought it was because of the device (Mediatek Helio G80), but the same happened in my notebook using PCSX2. Now I don't know if the problem is related to configuration, the ROM used or something about the emulators.
Did you ever do a video on Red magic 7 pro and emulation?
So where exactly can I purchase this SBC?... I'm over here like "take my money" lol.
Links are in the description of the video. Firefly Store or AliExpress.
Mr Taki, I been enjoying your videos and reviews since you started, could you please recomend me what computer/affordable may I get to run ps2 and wii U flaulessy (and not burn it), I did not have a good enough ones to run them well
If you want an affordable device would recommend current handheld consoles such as the Odin, steam deck. I have the aya neo which is more expensive but runs ps2 games perfectly using the pscx2 emulator
I'm shocked at how smooth Shadow of the Colossus runs on this thingy
Is this chip better than the alder lake Pentium 8505??
No
Slap an adjustable pot on that fan and you're good to go with manual fan control.
If your fans got 3 wires shouldn't it be hooked up to a PWM built into the board? As if it was just a straight 3.3-5v it'd only need a +/- terminals to power it
That's what I was hoping for, but there were no fan variables that I could change when I was poking around in terminal with root.
This would be pretty cool to put in an arcade cabinet.
great video!
edit : btw what housing/ case did you use for this board?
As always, great content. Any idea when we gonna see this SOC on retro handhelds? Thanks
Hope that this Soc comes to a handheld system
What is the name of the game at 2:37?
so here's my question, can you hook up two screens and turn this into a 3ds?
Actually, considering someone modded a RPi 3 to fit into a PS Vita, I was wondering if someone can fit a RK3588 into a PS Vita for emulation. :D
Why the hell does Anbernic keep using the crappy RK3566? I wonder how much less they're actually paying per chip to use the 3566 instead of the 3588.
🤦♂️No. We are looking forward to the review and tests of the Pentium 8505 and Celeron 7305.
Is this chip more powerful than the Pentium 8505 or the 7305?
@@tamim4235 of course not. And it costs more than they do. But most importantly, portable consoles on Pentium and Celeron are cheaper, more powerful and have the entire library of windows games. + more performance in emulators.
Off-topic but do you know what the most powerful fanless retro handheld is? Thanks.
Odin Lite if you never use the fan. If you are talking about devices that don't even include a fan at all, you'd be looking at something like the RP2+.
The RK3588 could be a game changer for ARM devices at the lower end of the SBC/TV Box/handheld market. Once they start to get into Intel/AMD price territory though, appeal will wane except for perhaps gaming handhelds. As nice as the Firefly model is concerned, the price looks high and when the Radxa model is finally available, it will look considerably more attractive at its lower price point. The game demo was impressive and it was nice to see a great variety on display. One way or another, I will be ditching AMLogic for this SOC when we se the full range of products on offer.
Does the amount of ram makes a difference in emulation performance?
Taki you know the first handheld Anbernic or.another using this ..
Whats currently the best sbc under 100$? Looking for 4k media and emulation up to ps2. Preferably low power consumption as it will be used off grid.
Sei que a Orange pi5 está com um ótimo preço e vem com o rk3588s
Why is this running Mario Galaxy better than my Steam Deck?
This build of Dolphin would give better performance to you on the SD if there was a port. The closest thing you could get would be to try the ishiiruka dolphin build.
How does this compare to the Ayn Odin?
Cool board definitely. Just too expensive in my opinion. Firefly’s 3588s 8 g ram 64 g emmc is over 320$ ! Too high. The Rock5b is more affordable although who knows when (or at this point if) this “fabled” single board computer is gonna be released
Ya, it's kind of strange that Firefly is on to their second (3rd?) 3588 product when other companies haven't put out their first. I don't know how they got this much of a lead over the competition. Their products are usually priced higher than others, but they do provide OTA software updates for several of their boards, so they must spread out the cost for a lot of things.
@@TakiUdon that makes sense. I’m so tempted to grab the firefly joint but patience is a virtue I suppose
SBCs are getting mighty close to be playing upto PS3/X360 era, thats when I will go for one an upgrade over my Pi4. Ive heard AMD want to start making GPUs for SBCs using their RDNA technology, that will be interesting :D
Why aren't there any handhelds with this SoC?
My Poco F3 has a 40% higher benchmark score with a custom rom, it doesn't require active cooling and it's just a smartphone... Am I crazy or these devices are just not necessary? What's the appeal? The integrated game pad?
does this support single cable display out through USB-C?
So to which snapdragon does it compare? I'd say the 865 but I don't know
crazy- on my Snapdragon 888, Citra for 3DS doesn't run this well. Return of Samus, even at the original resolution, is unplayable.
@@bulletpunch9317 I haven't tried for a few months- maybe citris has had some good updates, or maybe the play store version is nerfed.
That geekbench score is pretty weak, you're right. Makes me wonder why I wouldn't just buy a Galaxy S10 with a cracked screen for less, and still get better performance...
The Snapdragon 888 is generally heavily throttled on a phone and never has a good chance to "stretch it's legs." An SBC doesn't have this problem, especially with active cooling.
I have the S21 so I'm aware of the strengths and limitations of the chip.
@@ezg8448 I wish there were snapdragon boards you could buy.
@@MrHamncheez - Agreed
it is a amazing performance i hope you can make one more video about this Tiny Chip i want se more of switch enulator
also wii u and ps3 and xbox i think those systems work well to
What is the general performance in Lunix?
All these damn hand held coming out I can’t keep up. I just bought a decent Samsung tablet for gameboy and DS emulation and bought a dell G15 for everything else (ps1 ps2 Xbox etc) so far so good 😊
Nice! I have an aya neo handheld pc with: pc games, ps2, GameCube/wii, Dreamcast, PSP, ds, gba emulators installed 😏😏
@@therunawaykid6523 nice and how is it overall?
@@hinfinity really good in my opinion it’s so cool having a handheld device that can play pc games and many emulators. Even has a dock available so you can play it on a television also in my opinion the seven inch screen and size of the device is perfect as it’s about the same size as my og switch with the hori split con controllers attached. Also what I love is that it has Xbox style controls so most games are already setup plus it has a game record feature so you can record gameplay and take screenshots which is really useful
@@therunawaykid6523 ok I might have to look into that thanks 🙏🏾
What is the watts it's pulling while gaming ?
5:49 *Imp Dies* 😂
For that price, I don't know, I think 6600U, 6800U or potentially Mediatek 1000series/Qualcomm 870 are more promising.
Also if you’re having to mess with settings just to get the emulators to work then that isn’t good. Which is why with anything from nes to ps1 these days anything up to ps1 will always run smoothly
all emulations are from android or can something like batocera be installed?
Linux can be installed, but there is no Batocera build right now.
$400? Id rather buy a $400 used snapdragon phone instead. Then usb c to hdmi out connected to my tv.
I wonder if it can be installled with SteamOS.
Cool stuff but I'm calling you out in some of those clips. No way were some of those actually 60fps like you say.
hey, does this board have A/V output?
I'm so fuckin' bad when it comes to hardware I wouldn't even know how to set this thing up. I really just want a handheld that can reliably run PS2. I was using my phone for a minute but the performance isn't all that amazing.
Edit: affordable, preferably. $400 is like the max I'll drop on this endeavor.
There is a great tutorial online for the pcsx2 ps2 emulator I followed it worked perfectly and have ps2 games on my aya neo including: crash twinsanity, futurama, ratchet and clank, ratchet and clank 2, raw danger!, disaster report, simpsons hit and run plus GameCube/wii, Dreamcast, PSP, ds, gba, SNES emulators
@@therunawaykid6523 uh am I loosing it or is that a 1K handheld? Maybe I should have mentioned affordable in my initial comment haha.
@@SindyxLotus yes it is that much, but I surprisingly came into some money and purchased one don’t regret it at all it’s awesome having a handheld device that plays pc games and also loads of emulators!
How does this preform better than my galaxy fold with citra
What Operating System? Bliss OS? Android x86?
Android 12
The expense is way too much there's much better stuff out there.
It's a good video though very honest video Until the End, which I think is misleading because the switch games that we're shown are basic 2D games.
When it can run 3D games, then I'll be more impressed, but at this time, it's way too much money when you have much better systems out there.
Good review, but, Hopefully, this wasn't sponsored by the actual company.
Some emulators support texture packs, and given how powerful is this SBC (along with the 8gb of RAM), it shouldn't have issues running them. Especially convenient to enhance these games on a big screen. Please make a video testing this, it's never seen outside PC realm.
@@bulletpunch9317 But at this point you also have texture packs for Dreamcast, N64, PS1, PS2, PSP, 3DS. Not sure about current support on Android emulators though.
Is this comparable to the odin pro?
Is this more powerful than Snapdragon 870 with its Adreno 650?
The 870 has a more powerful processor, if I'm not wrong it peaks at 1200 single core and 3000 multicore. Similar gpu performance.
The fan looks like the Nespi 4 fan
will it be able to run xbox classic?
If only Snapdragon SBCs were a thing. That would blow away everything else.