@ lol exactly! I’ve tried to do my own video tests to compare my ported and non-ported but don’t have the software to get good data. Best I got was shot timer data seeing slightly better splits, but lots of variables in that too
Yes we can, because racers win off Feel. Not engineering. Why mercedes is struggling currently. They relied on engineering and not the feel of the driver.
@ the majority of people on the internet saying they “feel” the difference of their port aren’t good shooters. Watch any competitive shooters and they feel a marginal difference. Talk to the majority of internet clowns and they say it’s night and day. Sorry but I don’t trust those people’s feels. They aren’t F1 drivers, they are at best a 1st day uber driver
I am so stoked to come across this video. I was debating an engineer buddy that I thought having both ports and a comp (in my mind an integrated slide comp) would offer more reduction in muzzle rise and associated recoil. His position was that combining the two was essentially pointless. Glad to have your data to reference next time we go shooting.
I thought it was going to be pointless and I proved myself wrong😂. That's why we do the testing. But this is also for a very specific case of one ammo type in one gun, so this isnt the definitive answer to that question.
@@EngineersArmory - you mentioned you were going to machine down the threaded portion of the barrel and give it a target crown. Something I had though about, if you were to target crown a barrel and have either a compensator or an integrated compensator slide with a similarly angled conical bore surface that matched the angle of the barrel crown, do you think this could function like a "forcing cone" and provide additional benefit to the shooter? (hopefully worded that right, not an engineer LoL)
@devilish_details I dont think it would make enough of a difference to even be noticed. Maybe if the cone was a very long and narrow angle. Think like the cone would be a inch in from the muzzle with an angle of 30 degrees off the bore surface. In supersonic compressible flow (as far as I know) a diverging nozzle increases velocity of the gas flowing thru it. In subsonic incompressible flow it's the opposite. It may increase gas velocity as it expands behind the bullet and therefore increase velocity of gasses coming out of the comp. In theory... hahah In practice I doubt it would be noticeable. And the loss of a bunch of rifling would reduce bullet velocity.
There definitely is a clear statistical basis to back the idea that is suffers from extremely diminished returns vs either singular approach. But it does work!
I've used the PMM single port comps on three different guns so far (G17, G45, VP9), and that's been my preferred way to reduce recoil in this way. They have been reliable, even when shooting from retention or other compromised positions. This comp also (generally) does not require specialized holsters to work (the VP9 fit in a VP9L holster, G45 worked in a 34 holster). As an option for carry guns, I've just got too many concerns about jacket separation with JHPs on ported guns. For range/competition/fun guns, porting certainly seems like a great way to go. I appreciate the testing here, and think that the data and findings are super valuable. Still loving that PP Porting too!
I just had two bullet fragments surgically removed from my noggin from that chunk port on my springfield hellcat where i didnt bore out the rifling. Jacket spalling can be gnarly. More than just some peppering from hot gasses. Of course if you were defending your life, a gash on the forehead would pale in comparison, but i cant risk a hospital trip, $2000 out of my pocket, and surgery months later every time I want to practice shooting from retention. Agreed compensators are a better option for carry guns, and guns of general use. Ports on carry guns... sure. V-ports and tiny little holes haha. I dont machine any holes/slots larger than 7/64" (.109) anymore for any of my porting jobs regardless of application. Too much spalling (it also tears up the barrel bore on the trailing edge of the ports). BTW most FMJ range loads now are not a total jacket, they are open to lead in the back - I pulled a bullet out of all my ammo types. The FMJ will come off in a hurry with large ports. it happens at the rear edge of the bullet where the gas pressure is expanding the jacket into the rifling.
@@EngineersArmory Ouch, I hope that the surgery went smoothly, and that the recovery ain't too long. I saw that video, and yeah, it's a shame that it happened. Unfortunately, you aren't the first person that I've known to catch spalling like that. I think it's a good point to mention port size/ammo. A lot of folks don't know that the base of the bullet is exposed lead, and that jacket separation is pretty common these days. I've unintentionally stocked up on a lot of Speer Lawman TMJ, which would help better if I were to shoot a ported gun. That being said, for me, ports just aren't what I like.
I run my bul sas2 edc (doublestack 9mm 1911) with V6 oval ports and a dual port comp. Had to tune the recoil spring down from 11lbs to 9lbs, but works reliably with every ammo so far after that. I captured footage at 240fps with no port/comp, ports, and ports+comp and posted to my YT account. I didnt do any angle analysis but you can visually see a muzzle rise reduction down the line. My recoil perception noticed a reduction in each step as well I basically was too impatient for Bul to release their 2025 model TAC Comp that is a v6 ported and comp'd model, so i made my own 😏 love it!
Thats awesome! I checked out the videos. Holy shite thats flat! Most all the guns I have seen with ports and comps are open guns and 2011s or cz75 pattern (like the czechmate). The Glock is probably not a good candidate for port and comp haha. At least with the ammo I was running.
Oh no! Sorry to make you spend more of your money hahaha! If you get one let me know how it is! Would be interesting to see how picky it is with ammo and what recoil spring weight you need. I would be more inclined to put that set up on a shorter slide than the G34.
@EngineersArmory it would be on a 19 with a faxon hellfire slide. I'm waiting for Black Friday they normally sell barrel's for $99 years prior. But if it works out I will let you know
Bro those Zaffiri parts are super nice. I've used them on a few Polymer 80 builds and they are well worth the money. My favorite extended threaded barrel is from Tactical Kenetics and it's also spiral fluted. On Black Friday I paid $75 for it online. The Email lists keep me updated on the all the sales.
That ejection pattern on the combo of em both is wild lmao barely coughing those spent shell-casings out. Might benefit from a slightly reduced recoil spring
Yeah its marginal. I found an issue with my extractor that I have fixed. Modified the tip of the ejector, Slicked some things up a little more, and I have a 10# spring ordered (11# was used in this video).
I love a good comp block and I think the Pit Viper has the perfect shape and look for a 1911/2011 comp as long as you angle cut the full length dust cover to match. I got my Staccato XC before the Pit Viper came out and I had it V-6 ported and tuned the recoil and hammer springs to run all ammo types from 90-165 gr. I’m also waiting for the Bul Armory Tac Pro Comp to come out next year. They basically took my idea and make it a new model for next year. Ports are easier to do aftermarket and a good custom comp could call for a longer frame or a shorter slide but both are expensive to have done right. I’ll choose a gun with a good comp setup from the factory over a gun with ports from the factory. But I have no problem with porting my guns that don’t have a good comp option. I’m not trying to take down bad guys in cars from 100 yards, so I don’t care about the tiny loss in velocity or the concussive blast you might get when shooting from retention with a ported or comp’d gun. My current EDC is a custom build with a comp. And in the winter I’ll be carrying my custom 10mm 1911 with V-6 porting 😎
Sounds like some insane setups! Thanks for sharing your experience. Ports and comps have advantages and disadvantages based on use case of the pistol. I think a 2011 would be the perfect candidate for porting with a compensator. Nice and smooth slide and frame fit with a smooth and short action unlocking. tons of light recoil spring options.
@@EngineersArmory you wouldn’t be wrong in thinking that. I was very pleasantly surprised with the recoil impulse after porting my XC. And the porting to my 10mm turned it into a 9mm recoil impulse with only 30fps lost. My EDC comp gun is something I pieced together over the course of about 6 months and I’ve put over 8,000 rounds through it in its current configuration with zero issues, even going from 90gr frangible ammo, all the way up to 165gr suppressor ammo. Fully polished and tuned Sig P365 FCU with an MCarbo flat adjustable trigger, Tyrant CNC controls, 365XL slide with X-Ray sights, PMM 365XL barrel and comp, DPM adjustable recoil spring kit, Holosun 507K, aluminum Mischief Machine commander Macro+ grip module and magwell with G10 grips, TLR-7sub, and Legion aluminum basepads. It’s basically my little striker fired Sig-ccato XC 😅
I personally run a ported barrel and integrated slide comp setup on my p365, and its by far the flattest shooting gun I own, won a match with it my third time shooting it, maybe a barrel mounted comp robs too much energy from the slide in addition to ports, which is why I decided on a integrated slide comp, great video and breakdown
Ah thanks for sharing! That makes sense. The slide integrated comps dont have that closed in chamber so they wont direct as much gas upward. Less effective, but probably works well and is more reliable when paired with ports!
Really digging this video - and your channel in general - my dude. Ports and comps have always interested me, so it’s been neat watching some “behind the scenes” type testing and data collection/analysis. Also the port design you chose for the 34 is definitely peak performance. I suspect we’ll be seeing major milling companies start to offer it soon 😂
It's pretty common in competitions to have both ports and comps. Of course it is usually found on major guns where it would be more beneficial, but still can be worth doing depending on the host and comp and minor loading.
Nice video! In USPSA Open division, comp with ports are pretty common. From what I read comps generally keeps the recoil soft and the ports keeps the gun flat. The more holes you drill the flatter. Also in open division people normally shoot really hot ammo (major power factor) producing enough gas to feed both comp and ports. The recoil spring in my open gun is 7lb.
Thats primarily where I have seen ports with comps. Race guns in open division. lots of 2011s/doublestack 1911s and CZ75 pattern (Czechmate) pistols. Makes sense with the higher power factor ammo they would be running. I dont think the Glock or striker fired guns in general would be well suited to comps with ports. Atleast not with the ammo i was running. Wanted to keep it consistent for testing obviously. Should have thought to bring some 124 +P or something hotter. I appreciate you sharing some knowledge. i dont compete so i don't know much about that. I agree with comps making recoil softer (due to the muzzle brake style ports on the sides) and ports keeping things flatter! Never really thought of it that way.
Great video! I have 2 Polymer 80 G19's. One ported and one comped. The amount of reduction in muzzle flip from my ported barrel really surprised me! After my testing I'm seriously considering ditching the comp and going with another ported barrel instead. But I do really like the way the Tactical Kinetics spiral fluted extended and threaded barrel looks through the slide windows. Perhaps I will just use this as a excuse to build more pistols? Lol
The problem here is you're hanging a weight at the long end of a lever, the weight of the comp is highly relevant. There is also a good deal of difference depending on the tolerance in the machining of the comp. The tighter the seal between barrel and comp the more effective it will be. Similarly with the difference between seal of the bullet in the barrel vs seal of the bullet in the comp. The better the seal, the higher the pressure, the more effect of the jet of gas. In other comparisons I've seen the comp always does better on a level playing ground the way a rocket motor with a well designed nozzle will work better than a straight tube. The problem is there is a point of diminishing returns as virtually any add on comp will never seal as tight to the bullet as does the bullet to the actual barrel. This means that at some point the gain in efficiency of the comp expansion port will be overcome by the higher pressure of gas coming from behind the bullet in a ported barrel. The key question for me is whether or not the loss of bullet velocity is a reasonable trade off for the reduction in muzzle rise with a ported barrel. With the comp there is no reduction in bullet velocity but you have the added length and weight to deal with. Being as how the GL34's barrel is already longer than a GL17 much less a GL19 I'm willing to gamble on the velocity in favor of the convenience of the ported barrel. For me this is a range toy so my motivations may be different.
All good points and observations. I am less concerned about velocity drop from a ported barrel, expecially on a range toy like this. I have seen some really good velocity testing on ported barrels and in most cases the drop in velocity was withing the standard devaition of the muzzle velocity from a group of shots (ie. ammo variability). Ports seem to provide more consistent performance from varying ammo types. Comps are good for a lot of reasons, its all trade offs. The comp on this already long slide looks goofy as hell to me hahah (also part of the reason I am going to flush cut the barrel).
I was legitimately surprised that the comp worked so well. I expected the ported barrel to do better than the comp, because of the barrel being sealed still by the bullet... but I still didn't expect the comp to do as well as it did... or like you said at the start, I didn't expect the comp to do anything more when paired with the ported barrel. Get ready to see all the people that are gonna start having both ported and compensated barrels. lol. (Some people, like Yankee Marshall for example, believe that compensators and ported barrels don't do anything at all to reduce muzzle flip/rise).
Yeah I was surprised by the results. The comp worked well. Even with the ports! Of course this isnt a definitive answer to the question. This is just one setup with one type of ammo. Comps and ports seem popular in competition open classes. Usually running 9 major power factor or 40. 2011s mostly, super smooth guns, super light recoil springs.
Great data. Subbed. I'll chip in by saying that your ammunition plays a huge role in how to best compensate a handgun as far as an overall system is concerned. For IPSC/USPSA Open shooters running Major power factor ammo, 9 Major or .38 Supercomp makes so much gas, at such high pressures, that it becomes possible to run both a four port comp AND barrel ports. In testing I found that just a four port comp kept my platform (a Beretta 92) down to about four degrees. Two 4mm barrel ports improved that to about three. The cost of course being, well, cost. Open Major guns aren't cheap to build, and hand loads are a quite an art to get right. Factory 9mm ammo also does *not* cycle a racegun, at least not with the comp attached.
I wish I had some higher pressure ammo with me to test with the comp+port setup. Most those open race guns with comps and ports are 2011s too. Much smoother, well fit guns. The barrel unlocking distance is shorter and a smooth sweeping arc due to the link. However I am sure I could have gotten this setup to cycle properly with hotter ammo.
@@EngineersArmory No doubt. Your vid, btw, is almost exactly how I wound up in Open, comping a Glock 45, starting with factory stuff. I found that as ammo gets hotter, the flip control will improve up to the point where the compensator starts suffering from choked flow. If I had to speculate, I'd say the ports help by not only directly providing thrust but also relieving pressure at the muzzle. Plenty of subtleties to be found in slide velocity, bullet grainage and propellant burn rate too. Plus, you don't want to lose *too* much gas in the barrel ports to drop MV below Major power factor
@@kyleharmse5968 whenever I do testing like this is just brings up more questions and details. The further understanding of the system, highlights gaps in my understanding. So many variables. Testing begets testing. A good experiment begets more experiments haha
@@EngineersArmory Curse of the enthusiast :-D. Just wait until you start chasing Hit Factor in competition, where it's not only hardware but also operator skill
@EngineersArmory I recently acquired one for my sct19 Not a Glock... And it surprised me! I like it. I also got a faxon slide on sale to match the lines and fit the Comp to appear flush when in battery.
This is what I would have expected. The ported barrel isn't just providing compensation. It is also reducing fps. So it would be logical that it would reduce recoil more.
That is a factor with comps. Also further away from the pivot point of the pistol in your hand increasing mechanical advantage. This comp is aluminum and pretty light - only 0.94 ounces. Would see more benefit from a steel compentasor - but even an ounce of non-reciprocating weight may make a difference when hung off the end of the barrel.
The 34 is already tame and sluggish. I'd love to see this with .40S&W to see if it can tame the initial jerk and reduce wear on the pistol and for 10mm for out in the woods. I don't see much reason to port full size 9x19mm pistols outside of competition, but as you said it is more of a range toy. Have you experimented with the duration of the gas stream based on powders? Thanks for sharing your findings.
Yeah the slide on this is relatively big and heavy for 9mm. expecially the range ammo I use. It seems ported and comped 9mm pistols are used in open class for competition and use 9 major higher power factor ammo. Have not played with poweder burn rate. Unfortunetely I dont have reloading equipment.
you need to test the ported barrel with a simple weight on the barrel. IE., how much of the effect on recoil in the port + comp test is attributable to just the added mass on the barrel?
Do you think using a standard length barrel vs the extended threaded barrel has any impact on recoil as far as establishing a stock baseline? I would anticipate minimal impact if any just based on the extra weight.
In theory it certainly could. Thats a tiny bit of extre weight on a long lever arm hanging off the muzzle. But I dont think it would even be enough to measure with the method I used. Part of the performance increase with the compensator is from the weight of the comp - some comps are steel to maximize this benefit. The one I used was aluminum - 0.94oz - not likely enough for me to measure. Maybe it would be measureable with a steel comp that weights like 2 or 3 ounces.
@@EngineersArmory That's what I figured, within the area of statistical noise. The other thought I had was using an accelerometer like the mantis trainer or a cobbled-together wii-mote type of device could give better data granularity since recoil is felt in other dimensions beside vertical flip when ports are angled and intentionally designed to vent in directions.
port + comp could be influenced by the additional weight of the comp on the barrel? also the weakened recoil due to lack of gasses could also lead to less measured muzzle flip?
Comp weighs 0.94oz. Certainly may affect muzzle flip but my guess is not much. Not sure what you mean by the second sentence. Compensators work by redirecting gas, less gas would make it less effective which would not reduce muzzle flip as much.
@@EngineersArmory sorry, the impulse that gets the slide moving... isnt that effected by the velocity/amount of gas out of the barrel on a reciprocating slide? or am i imposing DI rifle dynamics on pistols? so my thought would be less gas to push the slide back which would lead to less reciprocating mass moving towards the rear which would lessen the movement of the muzzle due to the mass forcing the rotation around the wrist. thanks for responding and doing all the hard work that the rest of us can benefit from!
@jr3628 ah I see what you're saying. Everything leaving the barrel that has mass and velocity (bullet, gas, unburned powder, etc) imparts the initial energy into the system that moves the slide rearward. The unlocking of the barrel, recoil spring, and friction of sliding components counteracts this impulse and that results in initial slide rearward velocity and its deceleration until it hits the rear of its travel. Ports and comps both redirect some of that gas energy upwards and that takes it out of the energy pushing the slide rearward. That upward gas energy pushes the muzzle down. The mass of the slide reciprocating doesnt change, its velocity, and how hard it hits the rear of its travel does depending on the initial rearward energy, and everything counteracting that. There is recoil force that we feel associated with the slide reciprocating and that is a result of its mass and acceleration (f=m*a) and inertia. This can quickly turn into a very messy physics problem. There is no steady state, it's all transient! Trying to wrap it up and answer your question. Yes taking gas energy out of what makes the slide reciprocate will reduce the acceleration of the reciprocating mass, lower slide velocity, and reduce how hard the slide hits the rear of its travel (which also causes muzzle flip). In the case of the comp with the ports, so much energy was taken out the gun wouldn't cycle reliably. To restore proper function a lighter spring would be used. That would then increase slide velocity and how hard it hits the rear of its travel, once again increasing muzzle flip hhhaha.
Now what would happen if you did the compensated with ports that went from a smaller diameter and ended with a bigger diameter? Starting with a small hole and gradually getting bigger before you get to the comp. I wonder if it would still help recoil but not affect velocity as much.
No idea. Not concerned with bullet velocity on my porting jobs. Especially not on this gun. That would likely be a difference in performance lost in the measurement error. I dont have a good guess either which would be better, small to large ports or large to small as the get further from the chamber. Supersonic compressible flow is a very complicated situation in fluid mechanics.
@EngineersArmory yea, from tests I've seen ports or comps only lowers velocity like 20-40 fps. Definitely would be an interesting test just for content.
@isidrosevier1125 almost every test I have seen, the reduction in velocity falls within the standard deviation of the muzzle velocity of a group of shots. People get really hung up on it. I can see why in theory, but in practice it's less of a concern. To me it's not a concern at all that's why I'm not gonna test it haha. But yes that is some good sciencey content!
I used the lightest recoil spring I had for all tests. That was one of my controlled variables. Recoil spring weight changes muzzle flip and recoil characteristics. It would have compromised my testing if I changed recoil springs between tests. I explain this in the "controlled variables" section.
I believe the reduction in recoil can be attributed more to the ported barrel than the comp, when you combined them the extra reduction could have been caused by the weight the compensator adds
I respectfully disagree. This comp is very light weight. 0.94 oz. Certainly since its hanging way out on the end of the barrel that may be a small part of it. I can tell the compensator is still working by seeing the flash come out of it, and the puffs of gas from the sides disrupting the hanging fabric background more than the ports alone. Also, that light weight of a comp shouldnt really affect barrel unlocking motion much, so I am guessing the reduction in cycling the action is one again coming from the gas redireted by the comp.
Damn, great testing! Much better data than people’s “feels”
We can't use "the feels" in engineering haha.
@ lol exactly! I’ve tried to do my own video tests to compare my ported and non-ported but don’t have the software to get good data. Best I got was shot timer data seeing slightly better splits, but lots of variables in that too
@TRR56 I use imagej. Free download online. There are lots of free ones out there if you ever want to do angle measurement.
Yes we can, because racers win off Feel. Not engineering. Why mercedes is struggling currently. They relied on engineering and not the feel of the driver.
@ the majority of people on the internet saying they “feel” the difference of their port aren’t good shooters. Watch any competitive shooters and they feel a marginal difference. Talk to the majority of internet clowns and they say it’s night and day. Sorry but I don’t trust those people’s feels. They aren’t F1 drivers, they are at best a 1st day uber driver
I am so stoked to come across this video. I was debating an engineer buddy that I thought having both ports and a comp (in my mind an integrated slide comp) would offer more reduction in muzzle rise and associated recoil. His position was that combining the two was essentially pointless. Glad to have your data to reference next time we go shooting.
I thought it was going to be pointless and I proved myself wrong😂. That's why we do the testing. But this is also for a very specific case of one ammo type in one gun, so this isnt the definitive answer to that question.
@@EngineersArmory - you mentioned you were going to machine down the threaded portion of the barrel and give it a target crown.
Something I had though about, if you were to target crown a barrel and have either a compensator or an integrated compensator slide with a similarly angled conical bore surface that matched the angle of the barrel crown, do you think this could function like a "forcing cone" and provide additional benefit to the shooter? (hopefully worded that right, not an engineer LoL)
@devilish_details I dont think it would make enough of a difference to even be noticed. Maybe if the cone was a very long and narrow angle. Think like the cone would be a inch in from the muzzle with an angle of 30 degrees off the bore surface. In supersonic compressible flow (as far as I know) a diverging nozzle increases velocity of the gas flowing thru it. In subsonic incompressible flow it's the opposite.
It may increase gas velocity as it expands behind the bullet and therefore increase velocity of gasses coming out of the comp. In theory... hahah
In practice I doubt it would be noticeable. And the loss of a bunch of rifling would reduce bullet velocity.
There definitely is a clear statistical basis to back the idea that is suffers from extremely diminished returns vs either singular approach. But it does work!
I've used the PMM single port comps on three different guns so far (G17, G45, VP9), and that's been my preferred way to reduce recoil in this way. They have been reliable, even when shooting from retention or other compromised positions. This comp also (generally) does not require specialized holsters to work (the VP9 fit in a VP9L holster, G45 worked in a 34 holster). As an option for carry guns, I've just got too many concerns about jacket separation with JHPs on ported guns. For range/competition/fun guns, porting certainly seems like a great way to go.
I appreciate the testing here, and think that the data and findings are super valuable. Still loving that PP Porting too!
I just had two bullet fragments surgically removed from my noggin from that chunk port on my springfield hellcat where i didnt bore out the rifling. Jacket spalling can be gnarly. More than just some peppering from hot gasses. Of course if you were defending your life, a gash on the forehead would pale in comparison, but i cant risk a hospital trip, $2000 out of my pocket, and surgery months later every time I want to practice shooting from retention. Agreed compensators are a better option for carry guns, and guns of general use.
Ports on carry guns... sure. V-ports and tiny little holes haha. I dont machine any holes/slots larger than 7/64" (.109) anymore for any of my porting jobs regardless of application. Too much spalling (it also tears up the barrel bore on the trailing edge of the ports). BTW most FMJ range loads now are not a total jacket, they are open to lead in the back - I pulled a bullet out of all my ammo types. The FMJ will come off in a hurry with large ports. it happens at the rear edge of the bullet where the gas pressure is expanding the jacket into the rifling.
@@EngineersArmory Ouch, I hope that the surgery went smoothly, and that the recovery ain't too long. I saw that video, and yeah, it's a shame that it happened. Unfortunately, you aren't the first person that I've known to catch spalling like that.
I think it's a good point to mention port size/ammo. A lot of folks don't know that the base of the bullet is exposed lead, and that jacket separation is pretty common these days. I've unintentionally stocked up on a lot of Speer Lawman TMJ, which would help better if I were to shoot a ported gun. That being said, for me, ports just aren't what I like.
Great analysis!! Love all the data and the plots!
Do more research, design, and analysis stuff like this please
Excellent video. Appreciate your attn to detail and explanation.
I got to watch this video earlier this morning and was very intrigued, adding more science behind the idea is what we all like to see. Great job!
This is pure gold.
Thank you! Unfortunately the cake is a lie.
I run my bul sas2 edc (doublestack 9mm 1911) with V6 oval ports and a dual port comp. Had to tune the recoil spring down from 11lbs to 9lbs, but works reliably with every ammo so far after that.
I captured footage at 240fps with no port/comp, ports, and ports+comp and posted to my YT account. I didnt do any angle analysis but you can visually see a muzzle rise reduction down the line. My recoil perception noticed a reduction in each step as well
I basically was too impatient for Bul to release their 2025 model TAC Comp that is a v6 ported and comp'd model, so i made my own 😏 love it!
Thats awesome! I checked out the videos. Holy shite thats flat! Most all the guns I have seen with ports and comps are open guns and 2011s or cz75 pattern (like the czechmate). The Glock is probably not a good candidate for port and comp haha. At least with the ammo I was running.
Zaffiri precision offers a ported and threaded barrel for Glock that has always intrigued me 😁! Now I'm going to have to get one
Oh no! Sorry to make you spend more of your money hahaha! If you get one let me know how it is! Would be interesting to see how picky it is with ammo and what recoil spring weight you need. I would be more inclined to put that set up on a shorter slide than the G34.
@EngineersArmory it would be on a 19 with a faxon hellfire slide. I'm waiting for Black Friday they normally sell barrel's for $99 years prior. But if it works out I will let you know
Bro those Zaffiri parts are super nice. I've used them on a few Polymer 80 builds and they are well worth the money. My favorite extended threaded barrel is from Tactical Kenetics and it's also spiral fluted. On Black Friday I paid $75 for it online. The Email lists keep me updated on the all the sales.
That ejection pattern on the combo of em both is wild lmao barely coughing those spent shell-casings out. Might benefit from a slightly reduced recoil spring
Yeah its marginal. I found an issue with my extractor that I have fixed. Modified the tip of the ejector, Slicked some things up a little more, and I have a 10# spring ordered (11# was used in this video).
I love a good comp block and I think the Pit Viper has the perfect shape and look for a 1911/2011 comp as long as you angle cut the full length dust cover to match. I got my Staccato XC before the Pit Viper came out and I had it V-6 ported and tuned the recoil and hammer springs to run all ammo types from 90-165 gr. I’m also waiting for the Bul Armory Tac Pro Comp to come out next year. They basically took my idea and make it a new model for next year. Ports are easier to do aftermarket and a good custom comp could call for a longer frame or a shorter slide but both are expensive to have done right. I’ll choose a gun with a good comp setup from the factory over a gun with ports from the factory. But I have no problem with porting my guns that don’t have a good comp option. I’m not trying to take down bad guys in cars from 100 yards, so I don’t care about the tiny loss in velocity or the concussive blast you might get when shooting from retention with a ported or comp’d gun. My current EDC is a custom build with a comp. And in the winter I’ll be carrying my custom 10mm 1911 with V-6 porting 😎
Sounds like some insane setups! Thanks for sharing your experience. Ports and comps have advantages and disadvantages based on use case of the pistol. I think a 2011 would be the perfect candidate for porting with a compensator. Nice and smooth slide and frame fit with a smooth and short action unlocking. tons of light recoil spring options.
@@EngineersArmory you wouldn’t be wrong in thinking that. I was very pleasantly surprised with the recoil impulse after porting my XC. And the porting to my 10mm turned it into a 9mm recoil impulse with only 30fps lost. My EDC comp gun is something I pieced together over the course of about 6 months and I’ve put over 8,000 rounds through it in its current configuration with zero issues, even going from 90gr frangible ammo, all the way up to 165gr suppressor ammo. Fully polished and tuned Sig P365 FCU with an MCarbo flat adjustable trigger, Tyrant CNC controls, 365XL slide with X-Ray sights, PMM 365XL barrel and comp, DPM adjustable recoil spring kit, Holosun 507K, aluminum Mischief Machine commander Macro+ grip module and magwell with G10 grips, TLR-7sub, and Legion aluminum basepads. It’s basically my little striker fired Sig-ccato XC 😅
@@Bryan-1980 Sounds like you know how to have fun!
I personally run a ported barrel and integrated slide comp setup on my p365, and its by far the flattest shooting gun I own, won a match with it my third time shooting it, maybe a barrel mounted comp robs too much energy from the slide in addition to ports, which is why I decided on a integrated slide comp, great video and breakdown
Ah thanks for sharing! That makes sense. The slide integrated comps dont have that closed in chamber so they wont direct as much gas upward. Less effective, but probably works well and is more reliable when paired with ports!
I am mad I didn't find your channel soon enough. I've been debating on porting or comping my gun for months now
Excellent video. It would be interesting to include a chronograph into this test as well.
Really digging this video - and your channel in general - my dude. Ports and comps have always interested me, so it’s been neat watching some “behind the scenes” type testing and data collection/analysis.
Also the port design you chose for the 34 is definitely peak performance. I suspect we’ll be seeing major milling companies start to offer it soon 😂
"its not the size of the boat its the motion of the ocean" - What guns with small PPs say. They better give me royalties on my dope ass design!
It's pretty common in competitions to have both ports and comps. Of course it is usually found on major guns where it would be more beneficial, but still can be worth doing depending on the host and comp and minor loading.
Great video
10:00 remove material (weight) off the slide so it can maybe reliable with the comp and port combo
That would be one way to do it. This slide is already pretty milled out. I may butler cut the front, not sure yet. Thats more for looks tho.
Nice video! In USPSA Open division, comp with ports are pretty common. From what I read comps generally keeps the recoil soft and the ports keeps the gun flat. The more holes you drill the flatter. Also in open division people normally shoot really hot ammo (major power factor) producing enough gas to feed both comp and ports. The recoil spring in my open gun is 7lb.
Thats primarily where I have seen ports with comps. Race guns in open division. lots of 2011s/doublestack 1911s and CZ75 pattern (Czechmate) pistols. Makes sense with the higher power factor ammo they would be running. I dont think the Glock or striker fired guns in general would be well suited to comps with ports. Atleast not with the ammo i was running. Wanted to keep it consistent for testing obviously. Should have thought to bring some 124 +P or something hotter.
I appreciate you sharing some knowledge. i dont compete so i don't know much about that. I agree with comps making recoil softer (due to the muzzle brake style ports on the sides) and ports keeping things flatter! Never really thought of it that way.
Superb video!
Great video! I have 2 Polymer 80 G19's. One ported and one comped. The amount of reduction in muzzle flip from my ported barrel really surprised me! After my testing I'm seriously considering ditching the comp and going with another ported barrel instead. But I do really like the way the Tactical Kinetics spiral fluted extended and threaded barrel looks through the slide windows. Perhaps I will just use this as a excuse to build more pistols? Lol
I can always find an excuse to build a new pistol if i try hahaha!
The problem here is you're hanging a weight at the long end of a lever, the weight of the comp is highly relevant.
There is also a good deal of difference depending on the tolerance in the machining of the comp. The tighter the seal between barrel and comp the more effective it will be. Similarly with the difference between seal of the bullet in the barrel vs seal of the bullet in the comp. The better the seal, the higher the pressure, the more effect of the jet of gas.
In other comparisons I've seen the comp always does better on a level playing ground the way a rocket motor with a well designed nozzle will work better than a straight tube. The problem is there is a point of diminishing returns as virtually any add on comp will never seal as tight to the bullet as does the bullet to the actual barrel. This means that at some point the gain in efficiency of the comp expansion port will be overcome by the higher pressure of gas coming from behind the bullet in a ported barrel.
The key question for me is whether or not the loss of bullet velocity is a reasonable trade off for the reduction in muzzle rise with a ported barrel. With the comp there is no reduction in bullet velocity but you have the added length and weight to deal with. Being as how the GL34's barrel is already longer than a GL17 much less a GL19 I'm willing to gamble on the velocity in favor of the convenience of the ported barrel. For me this is a range toy so my motivations may be different.
All good points and observations. I am less concerned about velocity drop from a ported barrel, expecially on a range toy like this. I have seen some really good velocity testing on ported barrels and in most cases the drop in velocity was withing the standard devaition of the muzzle velocity from a group of shots (ie. ammo variability). Ports seem to provide more consistent performance from varying ammo types. Comps are good for a lot of reasons, its all trade offs. The comp on this already long slide looks goofy as hell to me hahah (also part of the reason I am going to flush cut the barrel).
"appropriate port design" lol
Yep those results were pretty much what I expected ha. Never seen a compensator AND a ported barrel used simultaneously. Pretty dang flat!
Well deserved sub thank you for the content.
Thanks for watching, commenting, and subscribing!
I was legitimately surprised that the comp worked so well. I expected the ported barrel to do better than the comp, because of the barrel being sealed still by the bullet... but I still didn't expect the comp to do as well as it did... or like you said at the start, I didn't expect the comp to do anything more when paired with the ported barrel. Get ready to see all the people that are gonna start having both ported and compensated barrels. lol. (Some people, like Yankee Marshall for example, believe that compensators and ported barrels don't do anything at all to reduce muzzle flip/rise).
Yeah I was surprised by the results. The comp worked well. Even with the ports! Of course this isnt a definitive answer to the question. This is just one setup with one type of ammo. Comps and ports seem popular in competition open classes. Usually running 9 major power factor or 40. 2011s mostly, super smooth guns, super light recoil springs.
@@EngineersArmory True. Still a good data point. Much appreciated.
@deucedeuce1572 my pleasure. This stuff is a lot of fun for me!
Great data. Subbed. I'll chip in by saying that your ammunition plays a huge role in how to best compensate a handgun as far as an overall system is concerned. For IPSC/USPSA Open shooters running Major power factor ammo, 9 Major or .38 Supercomp makes so much gas, at such high pressures, that it becomes possible to run both a four port comp AND barrel ports. In testing I found that just a four port comp kept my platform (a Beretta 92) down to about four degrees. Two 4mm barrel ports improved that to about three.
The cost of course being, well, cost. Open Major guns aren't cheap to build, and hand loads are a quite an art to get right. Factory 9mm ammo also does *not* cycle a racegun, at least not with the comp attached.
I wish I had some higher pressure ammo with me to test with the comp+port setup. Most those open race guns with comps and ports are 2011s too. Much smoother, well fit guns. The barrel unlocking distance is shorter and a smooth sweeping arc due to the link.
However I am sure I could have gotten this setup to cycle properly with hotter ammo.
@@EngineersArmory No doubt. Your vid, btw, is almost exactly how I wound up in Open, comping a Glock 45, starting with factory stuff.
I found that as ammo gets hotter, the flip control will improve up to the point where the compensator starts suffering from choked flow. If I had to speculate, I'd say the ports help by not only directly providing thrust but also relieving pressure at the muzzle. Plenty of subtleties to be found in slide velocity, bullet grainage and propellant burn rate too. Plus, you don't want to lose *too* much gas in the barrel ports to drop MV below Major power factor
@@kyleharmse5968 whenever I do testing like this is just brings up more questions and details. The further understanding of the system, highlights gaps in my understanding. So many variables. Testing begets testing. A good experiment begets more experiments haha
@@EngineersArmory Curse of the enthusiast :-D. Just wait until you start chasing Hit Factor in competition, where it's not only hardware but also operator skill
Needs slide cuts on both sides to lower the slide weight and cycle more reliably with the ports and comp together
Or just pony up and buy a $4000 staccato
@@arsondaily1414 staccato xc is on my list!
Yeah that or hotter ammo.
The PP porting is awesome!! Just saw the other video about it too! 😂
Big performance from that little fella hahhaa!
Nice faxon Comp!
It performs well! I have been running it on this gun for a few years.
@EngineersArmory I recently acquired one for my sct19 Not a Glock... And it surprised me! I like it. I also got a faxon slide on sale to match the lines and fit the Comp to appear flush when in battery.
@hopewilliams6705 oh awesome that's sick!
This is what I would have expected. The ported barrel isn't just providing compensation. It is also reducing fps. So it would be logical that it would reduce recoil more.
But the increased weight of the comp at the tip is something too. Just the added weight would make a difference
That is a factor with comps. Also further away from the pivot point of the pistol in your hand increasing mechanical advantage. This comp is aluminum and pretty light - only 0.94 ounces. Would see more benefit from a steel compentasor - but even an ounce of non-reciprocating weight may make a difference when hung off the end of the barrel.
The 34 is already tame and sluggish. I'd love to see this with .40S&W to see if it can tame the initial jerk and reduce wear on the pistol and for 10mm for out in the woods. I don't see much reason to port full size 9x19mm pistols outside of competition, but as you said it is more of a range toy.
Have you experimented with the duration of the gas stream based on powders?
Thanks for sharing your findings.
Yeah the slide on this is relatively big and heavy for 9mm. expecially the range ammo I use. It seems ported and comped 9mm pistols are used in open class for competition and use 9 major higher power factor ammo.
Have not played with poweder burn rate. Unfortunetely I dont have reloading equipment.
I would patent that port design! 😂
you need to test the ported barrel with a simple weight on the barrel. IE., how much of the effect on recoil in the port + comp test is attributable to just the added mass on the barrel?
I think in this case its negligible. This comp is aluminum and only weighs 0.94oz. Maybe if it were steel.
Do you think using a standard length barrel vs the extended threaded barrel has any impact on recoil as far as establishing a stock baseline? I would anticipate minimal impact if any just based on the extra weight.
In theory it certainly could. Thats a tiny bit of extre weight on a long lever arm hanging off the muzzle. But I dont think it would even be enough to measure with the method I used. Part of the performance increase with the compensator is from the weight of the comp - some comps are steel to maximize this benefit. The one I used was aluminum - 0.94oz - not likely enough for me to measure. Maybe it would be measureable with a steel comp that weights like 2 or 3 ounces.
@@EngineersArmory That's what I figured, within the area of statistical noise. The other thought I had was using an accelerometer like the mantis trainer or a cobbled-together wii-mote type of device could give better data granularity since recoil is felt in other dimensions beside vertical flip when ports are angled and intentionally designed to vent in directions.
If you do this again can you track the loss of bullet performance FPE compared to recoil reduction tnx
Sorry dont have a chronograph. Dont plan on getting one.
May i suggest adding a gas pedal to your glock or the Wing from Antimatter? to see the difference in recoil even more so
That's a good idea. I run one of those on a p320 and it helps!
port + comp could be influenced by the additional weight of the comp on the barrel? also the weakened recoil due to lack of gasses could also lead to less measured muzzle flip?
Comp weighs 0.94oz. Certainly may affect muzzle flip but my guess is not much. Not sure what you mean by the second sentence. Compensators work by redirecting gas, less gas would make it less effective which would not reduce muzzle flip as much.
@@EngineersArmory sorry, the impulse that gets the slide moving... isnt that effected by the velocity/amount of gas out of the barrel on a reciprocating slide? or am i imposing DI rifle dynamics on pistols? so my thought would be less gas to push the slide back which would lead to less reciprocating mass moving towards the rear which would lessen the movement of the muzzle due to the mass forcing the rotation around the wrist.
thanks for responding and doing all the hard work that the rest of us can benefit from!
@jr3628 ah I see what you're saying.
Everything leaving the barrel that has mass and velocity (bullet, gas, unburned powder, etc) imparts the initial energy into the system that moves the slide rearward. The unlocking of the barrel, recoil spring, and friction of sliding components counteracts this impulse and that results in initial slide rearward velocity and its deceleration until it hits the rear of its travel.
Ports and comps both redirect some of that gas energy upwards and that takes it out of the energy pushing the slide rearward. That upward gas energy pushes the muzzle down.
The mass of the slide reciprocating doesnt change, its velocity, and how hard it hits the rear of its travel does depending on the initial rearward energy, and everything counteracting that.
There is recoil force that we feel associated with the slide reciprocating and that is a result of its mass and acceleration (f=m*a) and inertia.
This can quickly turn into a very messy physics problem. There is no steady state, it's all transient!
Trying to wrap it up and answer your question. Yes taking gas energy out of what makes the slide reciprocate will reduce the acceleration of the reciprocating mass, lower slide velocity, and reduce how hard the slide hits the rear of its travel (which also causes muzzle flip). In the case of the comp with the ports, so much energy was taken out the gun wouldn't cycle reliably. To restore proper function a lighter spring would be used. That would then increase slide velocity and how hard it hits the rear of its travel, once again increasing muzzle flip hhhaha.
no shot! i thought would be great there's a video on PORTS & COMPS pistol combo on YT? imagine my suprise i found this video XD
Now what would happen if you did the compensated with ports that went from a smaller diameter and ended with a bigger diameter? Starting with a small hole and gradually getting bigger before you get to the comp. I wonder if it would still help recoil but not affect velocity as much.
No idea. Not concerned with bullet velocity on my porting jobs. Especially not on this gun. That would likely be a difference in performance lost in the measurement error. I dont have a good guess either which would be better, small to large ports or large to small as the get further from the chamber. Supersonic compressible flow is a very complicated situation in fluid mechanics.
@EngineersArmory yea, from tests I've seen ports or comps only lowers velocity like 20-40 fps. Definitely would be an interesting test just for content.
@isidrosevier1125 almost every test I have seen, the reduction in velocity falls within the standard deviation of the muzzle velocity of a group of shots. People get really hung up on it. I can see why in theory, but in practice it's less of a concern. To me it's not a concern at all that's why I'm not gonna test it haha. But yes that is some good sciencey content!
@@EngineersArmory yup, people do get hung up on it. I know for sure I still wouldn't want to get hit by it, even if it was just a tad bit slower.
@isidrosevier1125 😂😂😂 exactly!
Did you have to change the recoil spring at all during testing
I used the lightest recoil spring I had for all tests. That was one of my controlled variables. Recoil spring weight changes muzzle flip and recoil characteristics. It would have compromised my testing if I changed recoil springs between tests. I explain this in the "controlled variables" section.
Hi👋Are you planning to do a project on CANİK pistols?
Hello 👋🏻 no sorry. Not interested in Caniks really. I already have too many striker fire pistols haha.
The porting is very common, normal, and appropriate. 😂
I believe the reduction in recoil can be attributed more to the ported barrel than the comp, when you combined them the extra reduction could have been caused by the weight the compensator adds
I respectfully disagree. This comp is very light weight. 0.94 oz. Certainly since its hanging way out on the end of the barrel that may be a small part of it. I can tell the compensator is still working by seeing the flash come out of it, and the puffs of gas from the sides disrupting the hanging fabric background more than the ports alone. Also, that light weight of a comp shouldnt really affect barrel unlocking motion much, so I am guessing the reduction in cycling the action is one again coming from the gas redireted by the comp.
@@EngineersArmory very interesting, I'd love to see further tests like this.
A comp and ported? Probably easier to just shoot 22LR.
🤣You're not wrong!
Genghis Komp? Pshhhh. Gimme that dangle comp.
GREAT name for it hahaha
Pretty terrible joke because it's porting that I'm referring to, but whatever.
What did you do to your finger nails? Why tf did you say tutorial like that? When did Holosun start making plasma tv’s for handguns?
I chew my nails cuz I'm an anxious fuck. I saw tutorial like I say tutorial. This holosun isnt the biggest. Its mid sized. The 507Comp is bigger.
is there a reason you ported the barrel in the obvious shape that it is? were you trying to be funny or is there an actual purpose for the look.
😂😂 I just think its silly. I'm having fun.
8=====D
In my humble opinion and experience, ports are better than comps.
Agreed. Except the spalling.
@@EngineersArmoryand with this info and videos we want every gun with ports!!
@@gironlam83 Id loooove to get my Tisas ported just like Engineers Armory's pattern on his Teesash.
@@DesertTactical Pronouncing it like a cultured fellow hahahha
@@EngineersArmory Dont get used to it. I call it teesas 99.9% of the time. Lol