🛒 We Recommend Shopping At: • Signature Solar: signaturesolar.com/?ref=thesolarlab • Use Code: THESOLARLAB50 for $50 Off Your Order • Shop Solar: shopsolarkits.com/?ref=TheSolarLab • Use Code: THESOLARLAB50 for $50 Off Your Order 🤓 Watch the rest of the videos in this playlist: th-cam.com/play/PL23_m8HBj7OJQSt1fGveO_rQgn4-zYBB0.html 0:00 - Intro 0:29 - 60 Second Electricity Lesson 1:39 - 12V Batteries 3:06 - 24V Batteries 3:53 - 48V Batteries 5:31 - Summary Curious about the differences between 12V, 24V, and 48V batteries for your solar power system? In this video, we break down the pros and cons of each voltage, how they affect performance, cost, and which one is best for your setup. 🔔 Subscribe to our TH-cam Channel: @TheSolarLab ⚡ FOLLOW US: instagram.com/thesolarlab/ www.tiktok.com/@thesolarlab 👨🏼💻 The Solar Lab: www.thesolarlab.com We maintain an affiliate relationship with some of the products reviewed, which means we get a small percentage of a sale if you click our links, at no cost to our viewers.
For anyone who's curious any of the power stations that were in the background of this video that are basically capable of handling a thousand w of continuous output from their AC or more are typically going to be 36 to 48 volts and the ones that are capable of handling $1,500 plus continuous Watts are going to all have a internal battery configuration of 48 volts so the companies that make the power stations are already using the much higher voltage because it actually makes the stations much less expensive to produce and they can actually be more compact by using the higher voltage because of how much extra space the wiring alone would take up as a lower voltage system The one caveat about all of this is unless you're using a power station and you're making your own homemade system. The cheapest and most common equipment that you're going to be able to find is all going to be 12 volt 12 volt solar panels are going to be the easiest and least expensive panels. You can find 12 volt charge controllers are going to be the most readily available and least expensive ones that you can find whether they're pwm or mppt as well as 12 volt batteries are going to be the easiest thing to find and get your hands on without having to then start making a complicated series wiring setup and 12 volt inverters are also going to be the easiest and most common thing that you're going to be able to find as well and yes, he is right. Basically, 1500 w continuous load is kind of where you're going to end at using a 12-volt system. After that you're going to want to go with a higher voltage. And yes another thing that most people commonly do from what I've seen here on TH-cam for all the off-griders some of them just jump straight into having a 48 volt system with 48 volt batteries if the batteries are lithium or they just buy depending on what they want and how big of a storage system they want either 8. 6 volt batteries and hook them in series for 48 volts or four. 12 volt batteries and hook them in series for 48 volts for my personal needs, I would probably be doing a 12-volt system if I was not using a power station. Just because once you start getting into the 24 or even 48 volt equipment it becomes so much more expensive that literally you're almost better off just buying a power station given how expensive some of the 24 volt charge controllers and 24 volt inverters can be.
What about safety considerations for the beginners that this video seems aimed at? Is it much easier to get yourself in trouble/danger handling 48V stuff? What are the most important safety cautions for the beginner? If that kind of info isn't in that playlist you mentioned, perhaps it would be a good candidate for another video.
Like getting hurt wise everything under 60volts is pretty much the same level of safety. Starting fires type safety the voltage really doesn’t matter 12v will burn down a house just as good as 480v.
I built my system back in 2020 48v components were hard to find and expensive. Back at that time Will Prowse was recommending 24v system for medium system like my 250 square ft cabin. I bought a Big Battery 24v 170ah lifepo4 ,2000w inverter and 1000 watts of panels. I use it about it about 120-150 days a year and I'm using the exact system I started with and no down time.
I wish 24V was a lot more popular than it currently is, makes a lot more sense than 12V for ~1kW stuff 24V is ideal for affordable and efficient DC-DC power conversion in the 500W-1.5kW range: heaps of cheap MOSFETs and integrated power stages to choose from that don't compromise much on switching performance and ON-resistance compared to what you'd need for equivalent 12V systems. It should be a no-brainer upgrade from the manufacturing side of things apart from more cells in series being more potential points of failure. Of course, that will never compete against the vast market for 48V stuff that stems from telecomms using 48V switchgear for 70+ years to dodge needing to get all of their techs fully licensed for electrical work.
Also charge controllers are far more effective at 48V than at 12V. A 20A charge controller at 12.8V can handle up to 256W worth of solar panels. That SAME controller at 51.2V can handle over 1000W (assuming a controller that does 12/24/36/48V of course, but many do these days). Just as an example. Convenient kitchen appliances... Microwave, induction tea kettle, toaster oven, induction "burner", well pump.... the list goes on. Best to just go straight to 48V (51.2V LiFePO4) in most situations. In fact, I would only consider 12V at far lower wattages than the channel recommends. If its less than 500W then 12V is an option. If its more, or you might scale higher than 500W, then I'd go straight to 48V. At 48V, 2 AWG main battery and inverter wiring nets you 100A @ 51.2V = 5000W of continuous power without anything even getting warm to the touch, let alone hot. And all the solar panel string and charge controller output wiring can be 10 AWG. The only real gotchas with 48V is that (A) You need to be a bit more up on your electronics skills. (B) Getting any fusing and breakers right is more important. And (C) you need to pay more attention the solar panel topology. The best charge controllers are buck controllers (Victron's for example) which means that to work properly with a 48V system the solar strings have to generate roughly 65VDC or higher "operating voltage". --- For string voltages I shoot for at least 70V. Higher if partial shading might be an issue. My go-to charge controller is thus something like a Victron 150/35 for the voltage range it supports rather than a Victron 100/20. A single 150/35 can handle 1800W worth of generation all by its lonesome. You can do this with any solar panel wattage but you need to figure out how many in series you need to get decent results, plus one more to help deal with partial shading situations. Even 25W panels would work, but you would need 4 x 25W in series to develop a decent voltage for a 48V system. Similarly for other small panels. When you get to more serious panels... 100W you typically need 3 x 100W in series (but if they are low-voltage 100W panels you'd still need 4). 200W panels you would also typically want 3 in series. Higher than that the voltages are higher so typically residential panels would need only 2 in series. My go-to is always 48V. I only consider 12V for very very small systems and only consider 24V in very special cases. My default is 48V these days. -Matt
I’ve been running a Trace 4048 at our remote cabin for over 23 years. The batteries lasted 22 years. With a higher voltage there is less current going through the battery so the batteries internal resistance is less. We used only 48 v inverters in telecommunications. I worked in electronics most of my work career.
@@Chris_at_Home The old trace gear is some of the best ever made. Unfortunately when the company was bought out, the gear quality went down a lot and they created a lot of confusion by using the same product names. The closest you can come to that old pre-buyout trace gear these days would be something like the Victron Multiplus II series of inverters, and Victron charge controllers. Which I love. -Matt
I think the reason for having a 12 or 24 volt system is greater flexibility when comes to the power source if the lithium batteries went bad ( do to a mafunctioning charger or otherwise) finding 1 or 2 lead acid batterys would be easier to find in town at a local store in the event of an emergency.
1. A 120V battery could kill you; 120V DC is more likely to electrocute you than 120V AC, because the latter crosses zero 120 times a second. 2. You’d still need an inverter to power your AC appliances, so 120V DC doesn’t have a ton of benefit. 72V batteries are fairly common, but are also more likely to electrocute you than 48V. 50V DC is right around the threshold of “it might kill you, it might not”. 120V DC is well in the “it’ll probably kill you” territory.
@jimothy4j Yes, Nicola Tesla figured all this stuff out first!! He is the goat. Thomas Edison was a charlatan/business guy taught to us in elementary school.
Cause they ain t safe for residential use; too many chances of an end user getting a shock if he is tampering with them or if he is a diy er. 48 is optimal
The one down side of higher voltage is the battery packs get heavier to the point where you can't pick them up i.e. 100lbs or more for 48 volt 100ah battery. Also the battery management needs to monitor more cells in series so there are more little wires running around and more connections between cells to keep tight. Then there's the arcing at higher voltage with DC you need to be really careful.
Also higher voltages require less guage/thinner cables for the same wattage.. thats clearly wisible when using from heat... when voltage increases amperage decreases if watts stays same... thats why..
Appreciate the video. Good info, explained in a simple and clear manner. What if I can save several hundred dollars on a multi battery setup and just run the batteries in series to get 48V?
Many people do. Many people can afford adding one or two 12v batteries at a time when they find great sales, and some people never have enough $$ leftover to purchase a 4 digit rack battery. My first 48v system had 16 12v batteries in series/parallel before I had enough $$ left over after paying the mortgage and bills to afford a rack battery.
At $3600 each for only 280ah’s, those are some rather expensive batteries! Wiring for a 12v system may be a little more expensive but it’s also a 1 time purchase. For a little less money, you can get 4 of the 12v 280 ah batteries and a 5000w inverter and be running most of your house. Spend the money on a good solar or propane fridge and deep freezer, and move the heavy loads like washer and dryer over to a generator. It’s your money so spend it how you want, but if you’re on a smaller budget, 12v is way cheaper and will get you running and enjoying life
The functional difference is that the 4 x 12V (12.8V LiFePO4) batteries in series are far, far less reliable than 4 x 48V (51.2V LiFePO4) batteries in parallel for the same storage capacity (assuming all else is equal and the batteries have the same storage capacity in watt-hours). For example, 4 x 51.2V 50Ah LiFePO4 batteries in parallel is comparable to 4x 12.8V 200Ah LiFePO4 batteries in series. Same weight, same overall capacity, but vast differences in reliability. -- * When you have four 12V batteries in series you need additional wiring for a whole-battery balancer to keep the four batteries balanced. Also, if you ever hit a LVP or OVP situation and cause one or more of the batteries to disconnect, it can actually take some effort to wake it back up. (when batteries are in parallel, they recover automatically from such disconnects, but not usually when they are in series). * Also, most people are going to have more than one battery and paralleling batteries adds a lot of redundancy. It is better to have (for example) 4 x 48V batteries in parallel than it is to have 4 x 12V batteries in series. * It is easier to scale the higher-voltage system because you only need to add one battery at a time whereas with several batteries in series you have to add N batteries at a time to scale-up your system. So with LiFePO4 while you CAN put batteries in series to generate the higher voltage, and doing so appears to work well at the beginning, it is not ideal and has a lot of potential problems. Unless you are retro-fitting an older system, you really want to use the proper native voltage battery to construct the system. -Matt
I can 2x this information. Don’t waste your time with 12v or 24v. Just go straight to 48volt batteries and inverters etc. If you need 12volts then use a step down converter from 48v to 12v. The options for 48v stuff is huge compared to 12v. JUST GO WITH A 48VOLT SYSTEM!!!! DONT WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY. like me…. “Oh my rv and lots of its stuff is 12v so I’ll just buy a bunch of solar panels(6-200 watt) and 15kwh of 12v eg4 batteries and just a little 2000watt inverter to run my fridge 100% in a hurricane or if the power goes out.” Flash forward 7 months. “Man, I can fit like 11 more solar panels on my roof and prolly get rid of my generator and add 3 more batteries and then prolly power 2 air conditioners with all that solar. Oh goddamnit I need 0000 size cables and I can only get 3kva inverters and now I need 2 and gotta put them in splits phase and get a lynx distributor and more cables and. Fuck!”
You can always start with 12v batteries to get started and then buy more and series them up to 48v just don't buy too much 12v fixed ancillary devices get just enough to get you going.. I bought a cheap inverter and short wire that could support 12v and made due till I got four 12v batteries and series them and then bought the really expensive stuff(48v mmpt controller that takes 500vdc max voltage input from solar cells so I could buy small copper wire that goes a long distance to the batteries and not have any line loss issue..)
It seems like your animation and the way you described watts might be out of sync. Watts are Joules per second. Saying it’s like the total water in the bucket is not quite it. Like your animation, watts are more like how much water travels out of the hose in a second. The amount in the bucket is Joules or watt-hours.
Odd question… I want to boost my RV’s capacity as I use PC, Monitors, NAS, and other 120v devices like AC for months while traveling. What about inverter drain on a 48v system? I’m guessing that in addition to a step up inverter, I would also need to have a step down inverter too, as the 12v RV systems, refrigerator, lights, etc. run that. I know that I’ve powered everything down for the night and forgotten to turn the inverter off, and the drain is noticeable by morning. Does a 48v system require an inverter to be on 24x7 for the 12v RV systems?
No, inverters generate AC power. 48VDC to 12VDC does not use an inverter. You use a DC-DC converter though my recommendation for RVs is to have a DC-DC (48V to 12V) DC-DC charger instead of just a converter. With a DC-DC charger you add an additional 12.8V LiFePO4 battery on the 12V side. These are called "downbuffers". This helps a lot because then the charger only has to trickle-charge the battery (relatively low amps) while the battery sources all the power necessary to run the 12V systems... which depending on what you are running, such as auto-levlers and slides, might need a hundred amps to get going. The second reason for using a downbuffer battery setup instead of just a DC-DC converter is that any sort of failure between the 48V and the 12V busses will blow a fuse instead of putting 48V on the 12V bus and destroying all your 12V equipment. -Matt
For what reason? If you're thinking you could run 120v tools or appliances. no. One, your actual voltage would immediately drop, and two, Batteries are DC, tools and appliances are AC.
Ok ok ok yall,, I've been off grid now for only 5 years now and I figured out one thing most havnt figured out yet... here we go take that fridge and throw it out , no matter what kind u have throw them out .. get yourself a fridge / chest freezer many sizes.. move it outside on your enclosed porch , you follow so far ? Ok ... through winter my fridge is never plugged in . Only in summer n I only have 980 watts of solar.. See the stand up models ,each time you open the door they loose the cold out the door n they need to turn on again and again that uses all ur power .. Get it however cold the outside temp is pretty much your chest fridge is.. Do yourself a favor get rid of the up right fridge..
I've been off grid for 20 years and the most annoying thing about this set up is always digging around to find what you want. Taking what you need off a shelf is so nice.
Great video, you guys are fantastic. So if I purchase a small Sprinter RV with a 12 volt ac, a 120 volt refrigerator, propane cooktop, a tv, 12 volt led lights and some 120 outlets would I benefit from a 48 volt system?
I'm a retired electrician disabled by years of hard work and type 1 diabetes DC power don't push it's not cycled like AC current pulsating 60 cycles a min.solar power is available now at lower cost the batteries is the biggest cost . inverters hybrid mppt controllers chargers the more money you can spend the better or more lavish systems .iv looked into buying Nissan leaf EV battery whole banks not cells lifpo batters probably safest building your own I don't it saving any money it's more costly than life PO batteries.
![Why a 48V System is Better than a 12V? [Vatrer Power]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8ukQ9wQfMIY/mqdefault.jpg)
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🤓 Watch the rest of the videos in this playlist: th-cam.com/play/PL23_m8HBj7OJQSt1fGveO_rQgn4-zYBB0.html
0:00 - Intro
0:29 - 60 Second Electricity Lesson
1:39 - 12V Batteries
3:06 - 24V Batteries
3:53 - 48V Batteries
5:31 - Summary
Curious about the differences between 12V, 24V, and 48V batteries for your solar power system? In this video, we break down the pros and cons of each voltage, how they affect performance, cost, and which one is best for your setup.
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now this is a good video explaining voltage.
could never understand voltage but now i do.
next video for amps.
FINALLY……someone illuminated volt, amp and watt in a way my tiny mind can see!
Thank you for the explanation.
Thank you For These Videos. I Learn A Lot
No problem! We love to hear it ⚡️
For anyone who's curious any of the power stations that were in the background of this video that are basically capable of handling a thousand w of continuous output from their AC or more are typically going to be 36 to 48 volts and the ones that are capable of handling $1,500 plus continuous Watts are going to all have a internal battery configuration of 48 volts so the companies that make the power stations are already using the much higher voltage because it actually makes the stations much less expensive to produce and they can actually be more compact by using the higher voltage because of how much extra space the wiring alone would take up as a lower voltage system The one caveat about all of this is unless you're using a power station and you're making your own homemade system. The cheapest and most common equipment that you're going to be able to find is all going to be 12 volt 12 volt solar panels are going to be the easiest and least expensive panels. You can find 12 volt charge controllers are going to be the most readily available and least expensive ones that you can find whether they're pwm or mppt as well as 12 volt batteries are going to be the easiest thing to find and get your hands on without having to then start making a complicated series wiring setup and 12 volt inverters are also going to be the easiest and most common thing that you're going to be able to find as well and yes, he is right. Basically, 1500 w continuous load is kind of where you're going to end at using a 12-volt system. After that you're going to want to go with a higher voltage. And yes another thing that most people commonly do from what I've seen here on TH-cam for all the off-griders some of them just jump straight into having a 48 volt system with 48 volt batteries if the batteries are lithium or they just buy depending on what they want and how big of a storage system they want either 8. 6 volt batteries and hook them in series for 48 volts or four. 12 volt batteries and hook them in series for 48 volts for my personal needs, I would probably be doing a 12-volt system if I was not using a power station. Just because once you start getting into the 24 or even 48 volt equipment it becomes so much more expensive that literally you're almost better off just buying a power station given how expensive some of the 24 volt charge controllers and 24 volt inverters can be.
48V is the way to go! Nice vid, thanks.
Thanks for watching ⚡️
agree
48 volts higher the voltage less amps meaning smaller wires sizes saved money.
@@darrellwalker5203 that is right 100%
Thank you very much for the comparison explanation. You do great videos and give excellent advise. 🙏🏿👍🏿
Glad you find them helpful!
What about safety considerations for the beginners that this video seems aimed at? Is it much easier to get yourself in trouble/danger handling 48V stuff? What are the most important safety cautions for the beginner? If that kind of info isn't in that playlist you mentioned, perhaps it would be a good candidate for another video.
Like getting hurt wise everything under 60volts is pretty much the same level of safety.
Starting fires type safety the voltage really doesn’t matter 12v will burn down a house just as good as 480v.
ready made 48V is the best option for you.
@@Summitperry Anything over 36 can kill you, 12 cannot.
Super useful video
Glad you found it helpful!
Great info…. Thank you
Thanks for watching!
One caveat to your skip 24V statement is if your setup is running DC load components w/o an inverter.
I built my system back in 2020 48v components were hard to find and expensive. Back at that time Will Prowse was recommending 24v system for medium system like my 250 square ft cabin. I bought a Big Battery 24v 170ah lifepo4 ,2000w inverter and 1000 watts of panels. I use it about it about 120-150 days a year and I'm using the exact system I started with and no down time.
impressive
Almost the same situation for me. 24 is fine but there's no upside. Need to convert to 12v for dc use so there's added expense.
@Ravedave5 could you connect two 24v together?
@@hisnameisiam808 not suggested.
@@powerwall ok, thank you.
I wish 24V was a lot more popular than it currently is, makes a lot more sense than 12V for ~1kW stuff
24V is ideal for affordable and efficient DC-DC power conversion in the 500W-1.5kW range: heaps of cheap MOSFETs and integrated power stages to choose from that don't compromise much on switching performance and ON-resistance compared to what you'd need for equivalent 12V systems. It should be a no-brainer upgrade from the manufacturing side of things apart from more cells in series being more potential points of failure.
Of course, that will never compete against the vast market for 48V stuff that stems from telecomms using 48V switchgear for 70+ years to dodge needing to get all of their techs fully licensed for electrical work.
Good info.
Glad you found it helpful!
48V is good for long term invest.
At 5:28 in the video you contradict yourself using voltage "48 volts " ??
Also charge controllers are far more effective at 48V than at 12V. A 20A charge controller at 12.8V can handle up to 256W worth of solar panels. That SAME controller at 51.2V can handle over 1000W (assuming a controller that does 12/24/36/48V of course, but many do these days). Just as an example.
Convenient kitchen appliances... Microwave, induction tea kettle, toaster oven, induction "burner", well pump.... the list goes on. Best to just go straight to 48V (51.2V LiFePO4) in most situations. In fact, I would only consider 12V at far lower wattages than the channel recommends. If its less than 500W then 12V is an option. If its more, or you might scale higher than 500W, then I'd go straight to 48V.
At 48V, 2 AWG main battery and inverter wiring nets you 100A @ 51.2V = 5000W of continuous power without anything even getting warm to the touch, let alone hot. And all the solar panel string and charge controller output wiring can be 10 AWG.
The only real gotchas with 48V is that (A) You need to be a bit more up on your electronics skills. (B) Getting any fusing and breakers right is more important. And (C) you need to pay more attention the solar panel topology. The best charge controllers are buck controllers (Victron's for example) which means that to work properly with a 48V system the solar strings have to generate roughly 65VDC or higher "operating voltage".
---
For string voltages I shoot for at least 70V. Higher if partial shading might be an issue. My go-to charge controller is thus something like a Victron 150/35 for the voltage range it supports rather than a Victron 100/20. A single 150/35 can handle 1800W worth of generation all by its lonesome.
You can do this with any solar panel wattage but you need to figure out how many in series you need to get decent results, plus one more to help deal with partial shading situations. Even 25W panels would work, but you would need 4 x 25W in series to develop a decent voltage for a 48V system. Similarly for other small panels. When you get to more serious panels... 100W you typically need 3 x 100W in series (but if they are low-voltage 100W panels you'd still need 4). 200W panels you would also typically want 3 in series. Higher than that the voltages are higher so typically residential panels would need only 2 in series.
My go-to is always 48V. I only consider 12V for very very small systems and only consider 24V in very special cases. My default is 48V these days.
-Matt
Good point Matt
I’ve been running a Trace 4048 at our remote cabin for over 23 years. The batteries lasted 22 years. With a higher voltage there is less current going through the battery so the batteries internal resistance is less. We used only 48 v inverters in telecommunications. I worked in electronics most of my work career.
@@Chris_at_Home The old trace gear is some of the best ever made. Unfortunately when the company was bought out, the gear quality went down a lot and they created a lot of confusion by using the same product names.
The closest you can come to that old pre-buyout trace gear these days would be something like the Victron Multiplus II series of inverters, and Victron charge controllers. Which I love.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312 thanks for the great insight you shared.
@@Chris_at_Homethanks for the great advice
I think the reason for having a 12 or 24 volt system is greater flexibility when comes to the power source if the lithium batteries went bad ( do to a mafunctioning charger or otherwise) finding 1 or 2 lead acid batterys would be easier to find in town at a local store in the event of an emergency.
You are clearly living true to your ideal. Thanks for your explanations. (DoMore)
Why does no one make a 120v battery?
Easy to make, a little tougher to carry though.
1. A 120V battery could kill you; 120V DC is more likely to electrocute you than 120V AC, because the latter crosses zero 120 times a second.
2. You’d still need an inverter to power your AC appliances, so 120V DC doesn’t have a ton of benefit.
72V batteries are fairly common, but are also more likely to electrocute you than 48V.
50V DC is right around the threshold of “it might kill you, it might not”. 120V DC is well in the “it’ll probably kill you” territory.
@jimothy4j Yes, Nicola Tesla figured all this stuff out first!! He is the goat.
Thomas Edison was a charlatan/business guy taught to us in elementary school.
have,
Cause they ain t safe for residential use; too many chances of an end user getting a shock if he is tampering with them or if he is a diy er. 48 is optimal
Any plans to test the Dabbsson line?
The one down side of higher voltage is the battery packs get heavier to the point where you can't pick them up i.e. 100lbs or more for 48 volt 100ah battery. Also the battery management needs to monitor more cells in series so there are more little wires running around and more connections between cells to keep tight. Then there's the arcing at higher voltage with DC you need to be really careful.
Just a slip saying 48 on both ends..everyone knew what he meant.
Excellent vid. Thank you. I'm just starting my list. so 48v to start. What's next? I have a 900 s/f home.
Also higher voltages require less guage/thinner cables for the same wattage.. thats clearly wisible when using from heat... when voltage increases amperage decreases if watts stays same... thats why..
Appreciate the video. Good info, explained in a simple and clear manner.
What if I can save several hundred dollars on a multi battery setup and just run the batteries in series to get 48V?
Many people do. Many people can afford adding one or two 12v batteries at a time when they find great sales, and some people never have enough $$ leftover to purchase a 4 digit rack battery.
My first 48v system had 16 12v batteries in series/parallel before I had enough $$ left over after paying the mortgage and bills to afford a rack battery.
At 4:51 what is that cart and where can I get one?
The the Eco flow wave 2 can run continuously on 24v battery.
At $3600 each for only 280ah’s, those are some rather expensive batteries! Wiring for a 12v system may be a little more expensive but it’s also a 1 time purchase. For a little less money, you can get 4 of the 12v 280 ah batteries and a 5000w inverter and be running most of your house. Spend the money on a good solar or propane fridge and deep freezer, and move the heavy loads like washer and dryer over to a generator. It’s your money so spend it how you want, but if you’re on a smaller budget, 12v is way cheaper and will get you running and enjoying life
Higher the woltake easier for inverter to do the job
What's the functional difference between 4 12-volt batteries wired in series and a 48-volt battery composed of 16 3.2-volt cells?
The functional difference is that the 4 x 12V (12.8V LiFePO4) batteries in series are far, far less reliable than 4 x 48V (51.2V LiFePO4) batteries in parallel for the same storage capacity (assuming all else is equal and the batteries have the same storage capacity in watt-hours).
For example, 4 x 51.2V 50Ah LiFePO4 batteries in parallel is comparable to 4x 12.8V 200Ah LiFePO4 batteries in series. Same weight, same overall capacity, but vast differences in reliability.
--
* When you have four 12V batteries in series you need additional wiring for a whole-battery balancer to keep the four batteries balanced. Also, if you ever hit a LVP or OVP situation and cause one or more of the batteries to disconnect, it can actually take some effort to wake it back up. (when batteries are in parallel, they recover automatically from such disconnects, but not usually when they are in series).
* Also, most people are going to have more than one battery and paralleling batteries adds a lot of redundancy. It is better to have (for example) 4 x 48V batteries in parallel than it is to have 4 x 12V batteries in series.
* It is easier to scale the higher-voltage system because you only need to add one battery at a time whereas with several batteries in series you have to add N batteries at a time to scale-up your system.
So with LiFePO4 while you CAN put batteries in series to generate the higher voltage, and doing so appears to work well at the beginning, it is not ideal and has a lot of potential problems. Unless you are retro-fitting an older system, you really want to use the proper native voltage battery to construct the system.
-Matt
The 4 12v systems have 4 individual BMS. Better hope they're compatible. The 48v system is more compact (space efficient) and has one BMS
This application you should always choose 48V battery, that's it.
Can you fit a 48v LFP4 battery into a 3kW 24v Hybrid inverter?
NO.
I can 2x this information. Don’t waste your time with 12v or 24v. Just go straight to 48volt batteries and inverters etc. If you need 12volts then use a step down converter from 48v to 12v. The options for 48v stuff is huge compared to 12v.
JUST GO WITH A 48VOLT SYSTEM!!!! DONT WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY.
like me….
“Oh my rv and lots of its stuff is 12v so I’ll just buy a bunch of solar panels(6-200 watt) and 15kwh of 12v eg4 batteries and just a little 2000watt inverter to run my fridge 100% in a hurricane or if the power goes out.”
Flash forward 7 months.
“Man, I can fit like 11 more solar panels on my roof and prolly get rid of my generator and add 3 more batteries and then prolly power 2 air conditioners with all that solar. Oh goddamnit I need 0000 size cables and I can only get 3kva inverters and now I need 2 and gotta put them in splits phase and get a lynx distributor and more cables and. Fuck!”
110% agree.
You can always start with 12v batteries to get started and then buy more and series them up to 48v just don't buy too much 12v fixed ancillary devices get just enough to get you going..
I bought a cheap inverter and short wire that could support 12v and made due till I got four 12v batteries and series them and then bought the really expensive stuff(48v mmpt controller that takes 500vdc max voltage input from solar cells so I could buy small copper wire that goes a long distance to the batteries and not have any line loss issue..)
You're right, we just think that doing what you did isn't as practical for most people. Sounds like you really know your stuff!
It seems like your animation and the way you described watts might be out of sync. Watts are Joules per second. Saying it’s like the total water in the bucket is not quite it. Like your animation, watts are more like how much water travels out of the hose in a second.
The amount in the bucket is Joules or watt-hours.
Odd question… I want to boost my RV’s capacity as I use PC, Monitors, NAS, and other 120v devices like AC for months while traveling. What about inverter drain on a 48v system? I’m guessing that in addition to a step up inverter, I would also need to have a step down inverter too, as the 12v RV systems, refrigerator, lights, etc. run that. I know that I’ve powered everything down for the night and forgotten to turn the inverter off, and the drain is noticeable by morning. Does a 48v system require an inverter to be on 24x7 for the 12v RV systems?
No, inverters generate AC power. 48VDC to 12VDC does not use an inverter. You use a DC-DC converter though my recommendation for RVs is to have a DC-DC (48V to 12V) DC-DC charger instead of just a converter.
With a DC-DC charger you add an additional 12.8V LiFePO4 battery on the 12V side. These are called "downbuffers". This helps a lot because then the charger only has to trickle-charge the battery (relatively low amps) while the battery sources all the power necessary to run the 12V systems... which depending on what you are running, such as auto-levlers and slides, might need a hundred amps to get going.
The second reason for using a downbuffer battery setup instead of just a DC-DC converter is that any sort of failure between the 48V and the 12V busses will blow a fuse instead of putting 48V on the 12V bus and destroying all your 12V equipment.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312 This.👍
Hmmm. Could one create a 120volt system by series connecting 2 x 48v and 1 x 24 volt batteries? Does that make any sense to do?
For what reason? If you're thinking you could run 120v tools or appliances. no. One, your actual voltage would immediately drop, and two, Batteries are DC, tools and appliances are AC.
@@Nat_Sarim777 Right, so inverters are needed. What is the highest input voltage inverter available and what is it's efficiency rating?
24 volt batteries are used in heavy equipment. Dozers, loaders, etc.
Ok ok ok yall,, I've been off grid now for only 5 years now and I figured out one thing most havnt figured out yet... here we go take that fridge and throw it out , no matter what kind u have throw them out .. get yourself a fridge / chest freezer many sizes.. move it outside on your enclosed porch , you follow so far ? Ok ... through winter my fridge is never plugged in . Only in summer n I only have 980 watts of solar.. See the stand up models ,each time you open the door they loose the cold out the door n they need to turn on again and again that uses all ur power .. Get it however cold the outside temp is pretty much your chest fridge is.. Do yourself a favor get rid of the up right fridge..
I've been off grid for 20 years and the most annoying thing about this set up is always digging around to find what you want. Taking what you need off a shelf is so nice.
Great video, you guys are fantastic. So if I purchase a small Sprinter RV with a 12 volt ac, a 120 volt refrigerator, propane cooktop, a tv, 12 volt led lights and some 120 outlets would I benefit from a 48 volt system?
I'm a retired electrician disabled by years of hard work and type 1 diabetes DC power don't push it's not cycled like AC current pulsating 60 cycles a min.solar power is available now at lower cost the batteries is the biggest cost . inverters hybrid mppt controllers chargers the more money you can spend the better or more lavish systems .iv looked into buying Nissan leaf EV battery whole banks not cells lifpo batters probably safest building your own I don't it saving any money it's more costly than life PO batteries.
What happened to robbie, will we ever get an update?
If I don't want marketing and sales can I just go to Walmart for batteries?
48v 10kw battery ??3000w inverter????gridcharger???
We neee a “Thick” counter
24v 3,500 watt inverters are cheap. Truckers use em.
When are you going back to cars?
❤❤❤❤
Robby? So this is where youve been. Hmm.
That's funny because I read a 12 volt system in my truck at 10,000 Watts
He didn't say you couldn't, he said it's not the best implementation
Lmfao not a very budget friendly system
I suppose it depends on the size of your system.