Alice's Dark Origins in Transformers Revenge of the Fallen
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2019
- We all know the story of the Alice in Wonderland animatronic, but what if there's another explanation for the Decepticon's human appearance? Find out in this episode of Making Sense of Transformers.
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This one is just more of a fun theory. Not canon, but I like this explanation better. Hope you enjoy!
More Making Sense of Transformers episodes - th-cam.com/play/PLguwpjbT_Ya0juNuJyqNCo1dd-MSXXjsk.html
marlinfan1995 it’s nightmares
marlinfan1995 if you really think about it this theory makes a lot of sense
I think we can make this even darker by having the Cons kidnap human Alice and completely transform her into the new pretender. This way they could use something about her that they couldn't replicate, her human emotions. Then taking her now computer mind and reprogramming it to be loyal to Megatron above all else, or worse, kill anyone she had fallen in love with. This ,to me, is a truly dark possibility, but let me know what you think.
Pretty good investigative journalism kid.
Thanks for the perspective buddy...
Like it...!
👍🏼👍🏼
Man that makes revenge of the fallen a little dark and I love it
Guess you could say. Dark of the moon? Hey? Hey hey?.
No oh ok I'll just go
@Luke Skywalker, just a little dark??
Hmmmmm....
I’d say that’s an understatement.
FINALLY IM NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS BAY TF FILMS ARE GOOD
Joey_playz Of course you aren’t the only one.
LOL!
Doesn’t mean you are right....
Kidding!
Man she was pretty but she turn to a robot 🤖 lol
Pretender was really creepy and messed up for transformers and you’ve actually managed to make her even more creepy and scary now wow that’s really saying something
Zacimus Prime
Just got a notification from this video again but i found out that she is from an alice in wonderland ride near the college, its in the book and thats why sams room mate comes into the room saying “sam your bed buddy alice” because he found out off screen
Jake S unfortunately they went over that in the video, but really cool idea to add that in the film
With that scene you get a window to the darker parts of Japanese anime in the 80s & 90s biological horror that runs consistent or above the movie the Thing by John Carpenter.
She's like the Terminator T-X model
Any woman based on that that thing are savagely sexy
That was my first thought.
@bryan diaz varela It said in the Terminator lore that T-X should be indestructible but in the movie shes not 😢.
Here's my theory: What if Alice was originally human, but a Decepticon found her and, I don't know, like injected its DNA is her or something and transformed her into a half-human, half-Decepticon?
So a Decepticon just banged her?
Or just killed her and scanned her form, like how Transformers scan vehicles. But that’s a cool idea, of a Decepticon infecting her body and mind.
I agree w that
Well there isn't very much evidence in the bayverse that proves cybertronians can even do that
@@kyletroknya2419 she’s not in that movie
that deleted scene should’ve stayed in the movie 🤩
This character’s existence means that not only the transformers can disguise themselves as vehicles or animals, they can also become any one of us!
the spy has already breached our defenses
hep 101 you’ve seen what she has done to our colleagues.
not the autobots , just these specific decepticons , they're made for that
Sounds like there's has been good pretenders than bad ones but it does make transformers more of the comics
4 words, Dinobots insectacons, and beast wars.
I always assumed it was more likely that Bay Pretenders were more like parasites infecting a host, replacing organs and then eventually taking over when they had enough components to go after the brain. It would explain the originally human part, the discrepancies for moving into college, it would explain Bumblebee being aggressive against her despite her still acting human, and it would explain the eventual transformation.
Thats exactly what i tought
DUde we literally have Reedman a Con made up of tons of tiny ball like Cons that can group up into a little guy that is so thin he can blend into his surroundings if he's looking directly at you, the COns have very tiny Insecticons, and seeing in AOE what Transformium can do, nanotech isn't too far off for Transformers, so it could be that ALice is simply capable of shifing he metal around to simulate Human flesh.
Bumblebee did know she was a decepticon, he played the jaws theme and the song “shes a freak”
It’s a good theory but she was always a desepticon 🤷♂️
Edit:
Just got a notification from this video again but i found out that she is from an alice in wonderland ride near the college, its in the book and thats why sams room mate comes into the room saying “sam your bed buddy alice” because he found out off screen
Jake S I think if Bee knew she was a Decepticon at that point, he wouldn’t even let her get inside in the first place.
marlinfan1995
He hit her and sprayed her when he found out
@@Jake5537t and made her leave for a while, but because Bumblebee's vocal chords are damaged, he couldn't warn Sam clearly so he had no idea what he was dealing with
Just got a notification from this video again but i found out that she is from an alice in wonderland ride near the college, its in the book and thats why sams room mate comes into the room saying “sam your bed buddy alice” because he found out off screen
Jake S Why would Bumblebee need to keep the car disguise if he was sure there’s a dangerous Decepticon about to get Sam? Bumblebee would kill it, especially when its late night and hardly anyone was looking? Sam’s life was at stake, keeping car disguises are a lower priority at that point. Or maybe even stay in car mode and crush the Pretender Alice.
I think it was Decepticon Alice all along. Mimicking human behavior. Just like regular Transformers hide as vehicles pretenders disguise as organic lifeforms like humans and I amuse are specialized in copying their behavior. Gathering enough information from Sam until it is time to strike. She probably had to wait until she got ordered to attack. Note that Grindor attacked straight after so this was a coordinated attack. She had to stay close to Sam and observe before the order came.
Thank you
Exactly this.
It's a good theory but I don't think it's true. Bumblebee really hurt her, and autobots can not hurt humans, not to mention that such a hit would break her head. I think he was trying to unmask her by make her angry. And the ''this can't be a shapeshifter because they look so real'' is not a good argument, because mimicking is what they do. What I noticed about her was that she barely blinked and had odd staring. It made me nervous, she was like a cat or a psychopath, finding fun in playing with her victims, that's why she entered Bumblebee on the first place.
I’m with you in that. I regretted watching this video when this guy offered his take.
Not really though there are a lot of people who barely blinks in real life. She has two different personalities in this film
That's why I agree somewhat with his theory. if you watched the movie closely in the beginning and saw the deleted scenes she showed a lot of human regular female emotion and we both know Decepticons would never do anything like that unless they are changing sides to the Autobots.
She acted like your typical college girl who was only sexually interested in Sam badly, she was oblivious to everything around her, even when Sam was writing foreign symbols with cake frosting on the table did not interested her the slightest and the Decepticons
We're looking for something in his brain at that moment.
The head banging her from bumblebee could easily be over looked because people have been perfectly fine from car accidents before, maybe he didn't bang it as hard as it looked
And she left before we could see if a knot would appear on her face or not. She didn't act like a Decepticon until after she wondered off on her own that night,
the next day when Sam was having a melt down in class she acted completely different than when she had saw him at the party,
she was more sinister acting her eyes and emotion even looked lifeless when they showed her walking down the hallway to Sam and Leo dorm.
I believe they were two different people the first one was an actual college student, who possibly been murdered by the Decepticon bot after it took over her physical form replacing her.
@@jmdevon5117 Then why was she checking out the symbols Sam wrote on the cake and wasn’t surprised at all? How did she push him on the chair so hard?
@@lokekennee8850 hey that how college girl are
Always wanting the attention of the strong Male
@@lokekennee8850 she only saw how Sam was acting weirdly with the cake, she only glanced at the symbols but clearly her only focus was on sam at the time.
If she was an actual Decepticon she wouldn't have ignored the cake frosting symbols to dry hump Sam in a chair, she would have stayed at the party to collect what she saw him writing on the table, not followed him outside and got in a autobot with him.
Pushing him in a chair hard is not an hard feat to pull off as a human, Sam isn't that big of a guy to knock over in the first place she could be a lot stronger then she looks.
People gotta give credit to Alice, not only was she a good spy, but the fact that she was clever enough to use a teenager's 'weakness' to get to sam
That kind of reminds me of T-X from Terminator, you know
@@BlazeKnight_95 The T-X was good but not that great it was banking on liquid metal CGI that was done before and better in Terminator 2
wow... you just blew my mind. very good theory! I always thought it was funny that when Alice is in college, it's probably the equivalent to Cybertronian kindergarten.
I respect this but I think she was a con all along, a normal human would question the strange symbols sam was writing in cake, where as a cybertronian would recognize their language, and if they're ment to be tailing someone, wouldn't bring it up
Boom 6678 Yeah a normal human would've just backed away slowly but she didn't.
You put more thought into this than the writers did in the actual movie.
Funny enough this movie has little to nothing on it's script, because of the hollywood writers protesting in 2008 which was also the year of ROTF's production, Michael Bay has to use an unfinished script and tried his best to atleast make the unfinished story, some sense and actually watchable, which failed and the movie sucked, but atleast it made a sh*t ton of money
@@siphonophores hey, I loved this movie
I love this theory, it really puts on a darker twist in to this film
I was thinking this but not this deep nice work man do a video on Jerry Wang and his former job as NASA
Heyo
I love your channel
Hey!
I completely agree with you on this one.
So at first she was an actual human but then when she walked in the dark she was scanned and they killed her and from there she became a decepticon? Over all great video 👍
DanRockFierro 766 no that’s his hypothetical notion
They should’ve had Alice alive and then kidnapped by Nico Cyzren Torah - a half human half machine hybrid and maybe experiment on her and later use her hair DNA with a decepticon pretender impersonating her . Like have someone in the transformers franchise reveal the real truth about the human Alice instead of killing her off
What if they make a midquel between transformers revenge of the fallen and dark of the moon where Alice wasn’t killed but kidnapped and taken to the decepticon laboratory to be experimented on and then used the DNA from her hair and an imposter robot of her
Alice was never killed
This is what I thought too
I grew up with Anime Transformers as well as Beast Wars, so I assumed she was a Female Minicon that was capable of becoming a Human and was taking the Personality Role of a Succubus. After all, she was trying to Subduce Sam and if Humanoid Transformers can turn into Animals and back then why can't Minicons themselves turn into Actual Humans?
As for why Alice felt like a human, remember that seat of car are made of leather?
Those were probably what her skin were made of.
I have always thought that Alice was always a female decepticon, I did not know that she was killed by a decepticon spy and her human form was stolen.
If this was real, then that means my boi Sam had two girls going for him. Damn I wish freshman college was like that
Great video man! I really liked the theory and even consider it canon.
Bumblebee will kniw if decepticon is near...And alice is on the car ...so alice is human indeed...that make sence...
She’s smoking
Why did they delete that scene!!!!!! It was so good! That flirting though
Nice theory, but transformers isn't supposed to make sense in any way. It's a freaking mess that you can only enjoy if you temporarily switch off all your critical faculties (which I'm happy to do). On the set of Armageddon, Ben Affleck once asked Michael Bay why it was "easier" to turn oil drillers into astronauts instead of turning astronauts into oil drillers. Bay just told him to "shut the fk up". Sooner or later you'll end up with some severe brain damage if you keep trying to make sense Michael Bay's movies : )
Roger Roger Why would Bumblebee need to keep the car disguise if he was sure there’s a dangerous Decepticon about to get Sam? Bumblebee would kill it, especially when its late night and hardly anyone was looking? Sam’s life was at stake, keeping car disguises are a lower priority at that point. Or maybe even stay in car mode and crush the Pretender Alice.
@@CrabTastingMan Imagine him trying to kill her with Sam around. Do you assume Sam would just stand there and let him or step in the way?
@@CrabTastingMan Sam's life wasn't at stake, if she wanted to kill him, she wouldn't toy with him. She's not a killer, but an infiltration unit, which is all she does. Remember how poor she was at killing those three small humans? Sam, Mikaela and Leo evaded her pretty well even with those plasma cannons of hers.
She had an actual mission, not every Decepticon is a killing machine, you know. Her mission was to seduce/befriend Sam, win his trust and get some info out of him, that doesn't work well, if you kill your target. Why didn't Mikaela kill Wheelie? For the same reason, you can't get any critical information from a dead person. So again, she wasn't that dangerous at first. And Bee got scolded earlier for protecting Sam in the kitchen battle scene, despite Sam himself called for his help. So Bee wouldn't just blow up his disguise and protect Sam from a poor infiltrator unit, would he?
some people just give this movie too much credit than it actually deserves, but that goes to show how many people can actually fix this damn movie/franchise better than what MB could do
@@thatdudewelove8498 Why does everyone just straight up blame Michael Bay for everything they don't like about these movies? Besides, they're not AS dumb as people keep trying to make them seem. They're silly, and the second one has some nonsensical stuff going on, but they're not completely incoherent.
Ngl that was a pretty dark story and it make sense bc decepticons strikes at night and the perfect time to hide,scan and transform to pretend to a car or a human and ngl she' s like a human disguise decepticon terminator
TERMINATOR.
SHE IS A TERMINATOR
*SKYNET MADE THAT MACHINE, THAT IS 100% A TERMINATOR*
I wish Alice was real human and never tried to seduce or hurt Sam.
Same
I wish they had gotten farther, make it an homage to the first few times the hybrid from Species tried to get it on.
Remember the hot tub scene?
I know why can’t we just a mysterious hot chick, kinda ruined it when she turned into an ugly robot and got killed so early in the movie. Thought she was honestly more interested to look at than Megan fox
Santi gamino curse that damn spy decepticon, picked one of the hottest chicks to scan and kill
i was thinking the alice bee was taking for a ride was a human at that point with bee "peeing" on her to make her go away,so sam cant be caught cheating on mikaela
Me hearing that things could be darker.
Me:These are the kinds of things that I like.
She was a human & Soundwave from outer space sent the pretender just like he sent ravage. Then that pretender did a Terminator T-1000 scenario & killed the Human Alice & took her form. This all takes place after bumblebee sprayed her with a fluid. Why? Because it's common sense a girl that got full of fluid all over WOULD NEVER wanna see you again after.
I think this is a good theory.
I always thought "alice" the pretender scanned alice and then kill her, so I'm glad I wasn't the only one
Nice vídeo man ,keep doing It
Fun theory. Something that I never noticed before is that she is wearing an Alice in Wonderland type dress in the deleted scene.
Ok OK ok so I know its been a year and I found this in my recommendation but the guy at 4:35 sitting in front of Shia was my high school Health teacher! He used to always talk about this scene.
Lol no way! That’s super cool
transformers 4 : 8 minutes
So i have been watching the office for 1 year now but i also saw this movie many times and many years ago and still didnt realize that Dwight was there up until i watched this video
It took me a while too
You know, I'm pretty sure Decepticons are also robots so they could be programmed to be flirty as well, can they? Well, as far as I know, Transformers are technically robots and living organisms as well so there isn't really much to the plot to say that Alice's backstory was just as dark as this one. Plus, she's kinda a side character...
Dude, you're like...Matpat Junior
Backonja haha!
Lol
I agree that this theory is true. Also, I really like how pretty Alice was.
Another thought as part of this alternate theory to the comic canon animatronic thing...that would explain how lifelike she is...not just that when she walks off into the night is she scanned and killed....I think the Decepticon scanned her basic shaped sure maybe, killed her of course, but then probably peeled off her skin to wear it...like a classic pretender shell. The DARKEST origin. No other fleshy cybertronians get seen in the films...it makes so much horrifying sense.
I love Sam's girly scream
I thought the liquid bumblebee shot was orange juice
Your theory has one flaw when Alice is in the car Bumblebee pushes her head into the dashboard and when she gets back up and looks at Sam with no signs of injury not even a bruise which means she was a decepticon all along or at least she was replaced before the party
Subscribed! I love Alice's character and the fact the Decepticons have the ability to do this!
I really wanted this to be canon but welp no one knows for sure i guess?? And it would be very clear if they kept shooting a scene when Alice keeps walking in the night and see a shadowy figure of the decepticon pretender following her (after seeing her came out of bumblebee) and when Alice turned into a dark corner, and the camera panned from behind her to the right seeing the pretender standing in front of her waiting in the corner, she met the pretender while looking shocked aaaaand black screen...
I really like this. Well thought out, convincing reasoning. The only evidence that completely destroys the theory though is if your theory is true, Alice completely fell for Sam at first sight. Now that's just way more unbelievable than Bumblebee not sensing her. Also she didn't act very decepticon like by your reasoning when she stopped carving up Sam when Mikaela surprised them.
Almost has a terminator feel to it . As terminators look human
Mannn only thing I remembered about her back in movie 2009?!!!! Man she was giving me a tingle tbh and she was Hit and gorgeous asf!!🥵😍😍😍🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
Agreed
I am convinced she was human up until the cake scene
2:13 I spotted this in 2009 when I saw it in the theater and it blew my mind. The poster at the left that says "Babasonicos" is an argentinian band, iconic to our country, They started in the 90s as a rock band but through the years since half 2010s they changed to a more romantic synthpop band that talks a lot about erotism and the more lighter and sometimes funny side of sex. You might want to check them out.
Pretenders the Transformers version of the Terminators.
Isabel Lucas was my first crush lmao
Michael bay: Hey i never thought about that.
I've always tought about this, I didn't think she killed her after meeting sam I always tought it was before, but I've always tought that Alice must've been a regular human girl until she got killed and scanned by the pretender.
if all transformers can shapeshift as us humans then imma need to get Arcee's number
Did you know she didn’t actually die in the movie? There’s a comic where she survives and is later executed by sound wave
I’m pretty sure bumblebee sprayed Alice because bumblebee found out she was a decepticon
XD-YOUNGODN1TRO I agree with that statement since Autobots would never harm humans, and also her head would have been bruised from the impact which it wasn't. Also I'm sure pretenders know a lot about human's interactions so the pretender must have just been a great actor. So yeah we basically just disproved the theory. Sorry TH-camr who made this video, but great effort in expressing your theory though.
CCKILLER 00
And he played the jaws theme
Jake S and called her super freaky
Joel Musgray yeah he did that after she did that seductive leg thing tho, not trying to prove anything jus saying lol
Nnaemeka Omeruo When Bee smashed Alice at the dashboard.
Man, I actually felt bad for human Alice
Poor innocent sexy girl lol
Just got a notification from this video again but i found out that she is from an alice in wonderland ride near the college, its in the book and thats why sams room mate comes into the room saying “sam your bed buddy alice” because he found out off screen
Me: **sees alice**
Also me: *WANNA HAVE A BAD TIME?*
Obviously she was acting like a normal human because she needed to get closer to Sam, Bumblebee strayed her with that as he could sense that she’s a decepticon, Decepticons developed the ability to disguise to a point where they even stunt autobots senses which is what soundwave also did in Dark of the moon when Sideswipe and Mirage couldn’t sense him in his SLS vehicle mode
I always thought bumblebee was tryna get rid off her because he sensed she was a decepticon
I really like how they did the Pretender Bots. It's really unique.
Holy scrap O_O Never thought of this. But since cybertronians do scan vehicles to replicate their chassis, it makes sense that some cybertronians would also scan humans rather coming up with a made up identity.
She probably got her alt mode like any other cybertronian. But rather than Scanning a vehicle she scanned a humans DNA sequence after killing them.
Very cool🔥😎
Sam's scream was better than practically 5 of the transformer movies
This was always closer to what I though had happened in the movie. Alice was a real girl that was replaced at some point, only I am not sure if she was killed as up till this point the Decepticons (for whatever reason) seemed to go out of their way not to kill. Even in the cartoons they rarely killed humans. Now this may have been an MPAA rating thing so any death could have happened off screen.
Of course their is an alternate version, and that is that she was always a robot and that she was just able to copy humans that well. After all, if they could make organic based materials like leather then they should be able to mimic human skin. It would have made since to keep an eye on him as he knew Optimus and had been key to things so far, and when he went nuts they may have realized it was time to move in.
From what I have read, Alice wasn’t right in the head, even for a Decepticon. She got a thrill of that human hormones and nature.
So basically the deception copied the body of Alice then made a clone from Alice’s body but with a deception
The first time we see her she is a human, when bumblebee bounces her head off of the dashboard and all that stuff she leaves and then the Decepticons get her
man.. bay really went all out and put all this detail in his movies...
If you haven’t noticed the necklace she is wearing is missing after the night she walked home. But when she’s walking to sam’s dorm to strike the necklace is missing. Probably something the desepticon forget about her after taking her body over....just something to note.
I wondered about her because it never made sense! Good catch man.
If she was a human at the party,how did she move that heavy chair with sam on it.
When she looked back she was a human the decepticon pretender scan her body
To be honest i like to think that was Dilans niece and that she was working with the deceptions and when Alicia walked away,The Pretender scanned alice and Alice told her to finish the job.
😠: This all the robot’s fault. It killed Alice.
Couldn't it be possible that the pretender was acting like Alice during the frat party? It would make sense why Bumblebee showed up at the party, got Sam's attention and scared Alice away, he was trying to protect Sam from a decepticon which happens to be the pretender.
Bee showed up, because Optimus wanted to talk to Sam, it's easier to tolerate a yellow Camaro in the college compound, than a red flamed blue semi truck.
Anyway Alice was a Decepticon Pretender all along, for sure. Bee gave a lot of signals away, that there's something weird with her. Wouldn't do that, if she was just a random human, would he?
@@Croftice1 yeah that's true. Bumblebee would've just acted like a normal car with some tiny malfunctions like having the car alarm go off here n there but not completely having a breakdown like what he did when he smashed the girl's face in the dash or sprayed her with that liquid
Totally what a decepticon would do
Alice in this movie should've had her real name - Alice Zahra Baker - who wasn't killed but was kidnapped by a human dictator - and was placed in a lab for experimentation , by using a lock of Alice's hair and Pretender DNA to make an Alice Pretender - their human leader Dominic Cyan Pritchard whom joins the Decipticons to wage war on our heroes that foil their plans
That would be interesting, but sadly because of “writer’s strike”.
Wow just wow you guys made a video of her
I am a huge fan of transformers but I always thought her as a bug who got killed by Makayla car.
This is one of the darkest story around Transformers I ever heard
everytime i watched this there was one i could never handle i still cant the torture scene with sam starcream megatron and the doctor i almost barf out my guts everytime that scene comes around
Deceptions are capable of hiding their signature from Bumblebee as Frenzy hid as Michaela’s phone in Transformers.
in beast wars, when transformers were in animal mode their energon signature could not be detected, maybe she was based on what transpired during beast wars... it's also possible that she's been on earth for a really long time disguised as a human... jetfire explains later in the movie that Cybertronians have been on earth for hundreds of years (i think he made a joke about the first wheel?)
The whole ‘why go through so much to get Sam’ alone could have most likely been Michael Bay’s intention to add spice, comedy, twist, and of course a connection to other parts of their movie while making it last more than a minute...but I’m 50/50 in which I would have rather seen, more of Alive hunting him down or what we got...which is more or less the same but watered down
Yeah. Alice will have less chance to flirt Lockwar. His personality is so serious he's immune to the flirting, his immun is laughter, but making him only angry, becoming more strong and fast to dodge. And last, the hearing. If he heard some eerape. He yells of anger and leaves as you don't see him.
I know this is an old video but I was watching the movies again with my son and I am not sure the autobots are that good feeling decepticons around. There is a scene in the Dark Side of the Moon where 3 autobots come really close to Soundwave in car form ( while still pretending to be Sam's girlfriend car) and no one notices him.
That makes so much more sense than what was presented to us.
I think your explanation makes more sense than the animatronic Alice story
The one thing I've always hated about critics of the bay films is they always think they pull shit of his ass. The Pretender Unit has been a concept since the original Marvel Comics era of Lore. What was interesting Decepticon Pretenders usually take on the form of a Monster and Autobots a Human. In the Bay Universe he combined both versions. I'm just glad their are some in the fandom like yourself that know this
To be honest, I thought that deleted scene made her appear more robotic and fake with the way she only acknowledges Sam and the delivery of her lines. But given this is a Michael Bay movie and logic is the last thing we should consider, it could more than likely just be a case of bad acting. Still appreciate the way you try to make sense of these films.
You seem to forget that Transformers are capable of connecting to the internet which is how they learn English in the first place.
Not hard to believe that Alice could have learnt how to flirt then.
I'm not that deep into the comics just tv series & movies but 1st time I've heard of transformers able to scan & copy humans figured size was an issue until seeing human size or smaller ones in the movies. Since not much is being said about this character beginning to think she didn't go over too well & the studio decided to drop it.
Was i the only one who thought that she was killed straight away? Like knew that she had been changed after that night