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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ธ.ค. 2023
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It shouldn’t be this hard to get access to the resources you need to earn to play the game at a high enough level to properly clear high-end content. People should have a safe entry to learning core concepts. This won't help everybody, but it will definitely increase the odds! Please, add additional learning tools to the game!
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The problem with having a tutorial that's supposed to teach you a proper rotation is that every expansion (and sometimes even mid expansion) skills are added, removed, retooled, or completely reworked, etc, which means every time they change a job they have to completely redo the tutorial. If anything that would just encourage even further job homogenization and stagnation.
This is a very valid point!
@@RinBanana Considering this, they could probably make a video series, similar to the starter guide videos they made last year, that cover everything you mention and can branch off into job-specific info in later videos. They can tie a reward into watching them, like gear coffers with a level-appropriate dungeon set or an "even newer brand-new ring" or something, then by the end of them have a list of recommended trials and instances that have the mechanics that they covered/make a new "training" roulette that have instances with important mechanics to learn. And, because they're videos and not complete in-game scenarios, it shouldn't be so hard to update every expansion when things are added/removed.
@@tisLatte No one likes doing homework, especially when it involves material that isn't in the game itself. Video tutorials are weaker than hands-on demonstrations because it's a passive form of providing data. If you just throw videos at people, even if it's in the client, some people's eyes will just glaze over.
Yoshi P has said himself this is a big reason they decided not to do job rotation tutorials
* Astro jobs quests still mentioning Nocturnal Sect has entered the chat *
I'm not convinced this would change much unless it was made mandatory (like what you suggested) or there was a really good reward locked behind it, like the exp ring. A lot of people just skip hall of novice, don't complete it, or don't even know it exists.
I also think if this was implemented it should be fully voice acted, I think people would internalize the concepts better if it was.
I agree, anything like this would have to be mandatory or no one would do it. Take sky, stone, sea for example, most people don't even know that's in the game or what it's even for. Though it's not the best, it's at least a bare bones way of letting you know if you're doing enough damage or not. If used correctly this could partially do what's suggested in this video.
Oh and it's 2023 almost 2024, they need to make every quest fully voiced, at least from DT and onward. It's an extremely common thing for games to have, especially AAA ones.
@@oEXTRA to my knowledge most games that are fully voiced on all quests aren't translated into several languages. Especially since every expansion would require those additions. For single player games or mmos in one or two languages, sure that would great. For an mmo like ff14 that iirc is at least translated into six languages, that's expensive and excessive.
@@stormkeeper1741 as I said, AAA games already do this, in multiple languages as well. On top of this, most those other AAA games don't have a monthly subscription based system (that also has a cash shop). So if they can find a way to fully voice act their games at one time fees (base game, DLC if any), I'm sure SE can with this incredibly successful game (critically AND financially).
EDIT: I thought I wrote main quest in my original. At the bare minimum the MSQ needs to be fully voiced. Side quests are whatever but even then they could definitely do it since it's pretty common in AAA games.
@@oEXTRA would take too long in development and a lot of voice actors died in the 10 years.
@@azadalamiq RIP to those who passed. It can't be too time consuming if just about every AAA these days manage to do it.
Actually, Reaper and Sage does offer that in their first job quest sorta if I remember them correctly. May be update the quest for other job to do the same would be a debut
Sage tells you to apply Kardia but does a piss poor job of explaining what that does going by the number of sages that straight up ignore Kardia.
@@24hr-Gaming 💯
@@24hr-Gaming THIS I ACTUALLY WAS MORE CONFUSED ON SAGE AFTER THE QUEST
This seems like a good idea, but I think the major issue is the 14 team's penchant to change up how jobs operate, like Astro's constant changes for example. The hall of the novice missions, while great for beginners, have also been the same since they were created if I remember correctly.
I'm sure there would be developmental will to keep the "Hall of the Experts" updated, but it might end up being something shoved to the side if jobs keep getting reworked like they do.
in reality they should probably stop reworking jobs as much as they do. some jobs are just outright difficult to learn and play, and a hall of the novice that actually teaches the basic mechanics of the job, or a "hall of the experianced" and "a hall of the expert" that teaches the skills you get, would be nice. but we also have lost all our job quests that kinda played the roll of teaching the player how to actually play their job. those went away in shadowbringers. if we could bring back just basic job quests to learn how the job works, it would be nice, but those more or less just dump info and story on you so yeah...
I'm not sure if learning rotations needs to be a tutorial, what needs to happen is for ability progression to make sense, like was discussed in the previous video. If there is a tutorial that would help facilitate learning rotations I think one for weaving would be good. Mostly because people new to MMO's in general probably aren't familiar with the concept of a global cooldown, or may be but came from a game that doesn't have OGcD's in them.
A lot of the pop-up tutorials are also disgustingly out of date and reference mechanics and such that were changed or removed from the game before I started playing. Or are so cryptic as to not be very helpful to learning how new abilities work when you unlock them.
It really feels like the devs don't really sanity check things, regardless of whether it's a new class or a rework. Although I've only really experienced summoner in two iterations. Both of them were reworked versions and run the gambit from hellish to play alone cause you have no damage and the pets can't aggro things, to whatever is going on with them now that feels like a completely incoherent mess. I'm trying to relearn the class on a new character and it's not as bad as before, but man it does not feel good to play at all.
Good video, but I think the expectation in almost every game's 'endgame' is that you're going to learn from peers rather than from the game itself. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing either as it helps to build communities, even if it can result in some people getting a bit carried away with themselves and being the expert (whether that's a community about job-specific play or encounter-specific play, e.g. Eureka or Ultimates). I think there should be more tutorial style scenarios which handle mechanics/indicators but I'm not sure about class/job specific workshops.
Of course, this doesn't get away from the fact that some people will literally avoid this type of thing because they think they know better, and those are the worst people to end up in a group with anyway.
Another problem that I see is the language. Not everyone speaks English, Japanese, German and French. In my case I speak Castilian or Spanish. For one reason or another I had to learn English on the job, both writing and speaking it. For people who don't know those languages, it's going to make something difficult for those people.
We definitely need more tutorials in the game, especialy at level threshold like 50-60-70-80-90 and next expansion 100,,that simply goes through mechanics, standard type markers in raids and explains atleast at the foundation level what your abilities do, that you have learned in the past few levels and a starter, how to utilize them. The amount of people even at max level, who can't recognize a stack marker, not using their mits or ignoring half of their abilities is way too high, no wonder the bar to entry into Extreme and Savage is so high. The game does poorly when it comes to teaching people or, does not realy want to punish them for not learning and avoiding to force them to adapt and learn.
I agree - it doesn't necessarily need to be some big intense thing, even something as simple as accessible solo duties or even an in-game grimoire that teaches these mechanics and job fundamentals that people have access to would be super welcome to me. I know that a lot of players struggle with things like tank or healer anxiety, and having an extra step in which they can practise a little and know "what i've learned is the base knowledge I need" before they queue into a duty for the first time on it
we all have that one friend that when you mention something that they should have, that go "what's that..." like, please for the love of god learn your class, and pay attentiont to what skills you have an CONSTANTLY reorganize and optimize your hotbars. that's the other thing i get annoyed with, the way the game works, it just dumps thing on your hotbars, if there was a bas standardized way the game organized them, it would be far easier to just go "hey in this section this skill" or something like that.
I think there's two parts to this. I absolutely agree the game needs to do a better job at teaching. The reworked dungeons do better at this than they previously did, however there's barely any punishment for not doing a mechanic correctly. Stack markers and other aoe's barely do any damage, so even if the stack is taken solo or is missing people, nobody dies so no lesson is learned. A vuln stack or damage down also means next to nothing to someone just going through MSQ. If we had more bosses like the second one in Bardam's Mettle that specifically taught mechanics or maybe had an emphasis on doing a correct rotation then things would be different. Even in normal raids, people can mess up a lot of things and make it through just fine. Things need to be more punishing and they definitely can without being too punishing.
The second part to this, where the game is not at fault, is that the people that continually mess things up and can't clear content have every resource available to them that the hardcore raiders have. While it sucks that this stuff is not available in the game, that's just the reality of how it's always been and people refusing to actually utilize the resources is on them. Anyone that actually WANTS to get better has access to more than enough resources to do so and will always get better. Just for clarification, I'm not referring to addons or plugins. Console players can clear the hardest content in the game playing vanilla as long as they work towards it.
@@rfygband Pretty much this, more or less. The game's barrier of entry should be as low as possible so that as many people can come into the game and see if it's something they want to invest time into. While I do agree that there should be more baseline information about basic mechanics and basic tells present in the game, it is sort of there in the form of extremely irrelevant, and optional, content (Guildhest). The other problem is that, as you say, Normal Raids/Normal Trials are so low risk that players will basically always make it to the end which will then immediately unlock the higher difficulty version of the fight. I personally think that Extremes and Savages should have higher burden of entry through a required number of clears of their Normal version to unlock the higher difficulty. It comes at a bit of an inconvenience to high-end raiders but if Savage continues to be 1 week delayed for the foreseeable future then it's largely trivial to reach the requirement. This puts the burden onto the player to become more invested in the game they're playing, to learn more about it, and to improve within their means via practice in the field.
And being an MMO, the game inherently thrived on it's player base sharing information, tips, and tricks with each other by word of mouth, blog post, forum thread, or video. That doesn't mean the game should give no information, just that it needs to supply the minimum amount necessary to garner some interest in the more complex aspects of the game. And for higher end content, you make those players practice cause the ones who won't invest the meager amounts of time necessary to learn/practice what they need to know will possibly quit before making it to the high-end content (aka the "you don't pay my sub" players). The ones who are much more likely to stick around will invest more time into learning and practicing because they would want/welcome the challenge because they would then actually enjoy the game.
Yes there are the social players, they are an entirely different breed of people. But they still would need to know how to play the game, cause how else are they going to get all that good glam they want to wear to the clubs and venues and whatnots. And there are a not insignificant number of those players who are very good at the game.
Yeah this is what I think as well. Though I might space them out differently to become available just before a batch of new target markers are going to be encountered rather than at the expansions max level, that way it isn't overwhelming to learn. I can't remember when or if markers other than line/cone/circle show up in base ARR, but a lot of stacking/arrow mechanics are extremely opaque to me until someone flat out tells me if I need to run it to or away from the rest of the party.
All that said as I get further into the game it is getting somewhat better at "teaching" mechanics in dungeons before you get to more serious content, but it is very difficult for me. I dropped the game before finishing ARR originally, but came back this year and am in stormblood now. Some markers/debuffs have been really baffling to me without looking for resources outside the game, and since I'm doing "old" content it can be really nerve wracking to reach a new mechanics, or worse a whole battery of them.
I think the Hall of Novices should not be skippable and you should have to complete the full thing to progress the MSQ. If you buy a skip to skip ARR, it should force you to do the Hall of Novices before you can progress with whatever expansion you skipped to. It takes all of 10 minutes to do so it doesn't eat your time away. It should also force it before you can use the duty finder in any role you haven't completed it in yet.
If that was a thing people might just drop the game. I know i would 😂
I skipped hall of novices. Guess what I just do end game raids for fun.
If I was forced to do that hall of novices, I'd just quit and find a new game.
hall of novice pops up when you job skip. Even if you dud it before just so you know.
@@vincentlee7359dude, hall of the novice takes like 15 minutes to complete, no sane person would quit over that.
@@shawnscouten5184 guess I'm not sane, oh well. No one wants forced content
@@vincentlee7359 Have you dropped every game with a tutorial then?
i think bardams mettle was meant to teach mechanics language as stormblood was when they added jump potions but i think they need an updated one. maybe make a dungeon where trusts are compulsary so you cant get carried by more experienced players
The endwalker 87(?) trial has trust so I did it with npcs and you’re very on the money. Not having players to carry me forced me to learn mechanics, and honestly I was kinda mad this was the first time in the whole game I got to really learn anything
I dunno, trusts and duty support may work for DPS/Healer, but I got actively worse as a tank during them. With how wildly it swings whether you can pull more than one pack, their pathfinding issues once you do, and how they focus one mob at a time, you just kind of fall into the rhythm of pulling one pack at a time, which doesn't even require a mitigation cd. I've never been a worse tank than when I pushed through the msq dungeons on duty support.
The level 64 dungeon isnt trying to teach you mechanics lmao.
Bardam's mettle did not teach mechanics too well, given it's far cooler when you do it in duty support because you actually get to attempt the trial alongside the npcs but also duty support npcs are braindead and do not know how to do mechanics themselves. They will split up when towers appear and it took me the longest time to figure out you need to all go to the same one to share the damage
yeah tbh I think a trust run of a dungeon that has it should be the required "first" run for any new dungeon you unlock. slower? yes. more punishing? also yes - because if you fuck up, that's it, start the boss over boyo, no second chances for you!
I feel like something that'd go a long way (without requiring a tutorial) would be for each skill to have an explanation button that goes with it in your ability list. The dialog that accompanies it would explain it (and any related skills), when to use it, and some tips on how to make the most of it. It wouldn't be a direct explanation of rotations (cause those can vary a little periodically, based on updates (even for memes, e.g. Dragon Kick monk), but it'd allow players to figure out how to make rotations themselves.
By default the game will give you a ping for each new skill when you unlock it that will only go away once you read the explanation, but you could also access those at any time from the ability list. And it could cover a couple of skills at a time. E.g. get an explanation for all of the tank mits you have, but then explain the differences between them, how to rotate them, and how to combine them. The dialog would just be appended whenever you got a new skill that fit into that category.
Also, a lot of moves are actually explained in the job quests themselves (e.g. Ninjutsu) but doubling down on that would help a lot. Ninja for instnace covers the ninjutsu to a small degree as you unlock your mudra, but just a scenario when you have all 3 where the game calls on you to use different ones for different situations would help a lot.
One i think is most effective is side content for each job/role thats similar to masked carnivale. Its still optional but it teaches you through puzzle like mechanic encounters that softly guides you to be good at your job/role while being rewarded poetics or glam
I think no matter what they implement, there will always be good and bad players, and people will always complain about it. The best thing to do is find like-minded people and only play with them if it bothers you so much. Going into pf or roulettes with the expectation, everyone will be good is unrealistic.
There will never be a world in which every player is good! Nor should there be. It's more about having tools accessible in a nice, categorised way for players to learn comfily should they want to.
Yes and No.
if I join a PF for a reclear for anything, be that Savage or Unreal, I can expect people to know the fight enough to not eat absolute glue.
the amount of players i've seen not stretching their tethers in Thordan Unreal is stupid, they die to the 1st downtime mechanic (the drop AOE puddle stretch tether soak tower)
if i'm the 1 making the party I give everyone 2 shots, if you fuck up the same shit again, i'll kick you and even blacklist you if you ate shit along the way, people excuse their shitty gameplay way too much, if you're learning the fight in PF, fair game, but even then, you learn at a reasonable pace, not hold 7 others back because you're learning to slow that it's insane.
PF is a bit more controlled of an environment in terms of playing with randoms. Yes, you get varying levels of skill, but you also have to abide by the party leader’s requirements or they have the right to kick you. I wouldn’t dismiss someone in a DF duty unless they are actively trolling or AFK/offline, but I would absolutely kick someone who isn’t ready to farm/get to the prog point after giving them dozens of chances. I’m not expecting a speedkill in PF, but I am expecting to at least be able to do the content.
I agree with this. Rinon I believe only ever raids and cares nothing else about the game. He isn't wrong but I feel he could be over obsessing over this issue.
If you want a world of good players you have create that world yourself and be the hero it needs be the teacher for your own partys and carry your team of 7 players yourself 8
Great vid! Was wondering what that top glam at 0:45 was, I've never seen that chestpiece before!
It's the Endwalker artefact DNC top!
What'd I think would be an interesting idea to teach tanks would be that sometimes in trials and raids you might need to split up adds. In the Nidhogg fight there's 3 dragons he spawns which each do their own thing, but if grouped together are be too much for melees damage-wise. It's a mechanic that caught me off guard when i was leveling my Warrior to 80.
While rotation tutorials would not be feasible due to constant changes, a simple tutorial could take place in the form of a soft version of Stone Sky Sea - give the player locked gear for that level and have the DPS check be strict enough to where you need to use oGCDS/combos, but still not completely full uptime
I would like to see a series of training dungeons for basic mechanics. A series explaining basic mechanics like orbs, tethers, stack markers, tank swapping, and doom would go a long way. Maybe make it tie in to the grand companies so that you work with a group of pseudo-random allies (randomly generated appearances, but consistent stats) that then become your squadron. It would tie the tutorial into the story (so it doesn't feel pointless), would lead into the squadron mechanic (which could use a revamp too), and not be hidden like the current hall of the novice. You could then expand on this by having a dungeon or two at the start of each expansion that teaches the new mechanics (like Bardam's Mettle tried to do).
While I would love to have the same thing available for class rotations, they change every expansion so we are not likely to get that. What I would do instead is make every job's rotation be built around a solid "core" that comes online early and then has additional actions that get mixed in as you level up. Think gauge actions, OGCs, etc. Basically, make each class get the basic tool set early so that no tank needs to wait until level 70 to get more than 1 AoE button, but then spice up the rotation with new interesting abilities that players learn as they level and hopefully avoid the BLM issue where your rotation keeps changing.
PLEASE! TEACH US THE RAID MECHANICS WITHIUT HAVING TO LOOK UP VIDEOS THAT DONT HELP!
The mechanics get so convoluted at times I can't keep track. I need In game indicators of what everything is and practice all of it.
I would have a quick tutorial on common ways boss abilities target important mechanics; full random, closest player(s), further player(s), role based, so on. Knowing to look out and adapt to these things will help players ease into savage content, but this would probably be an optional, advanced tutorial for savage content (especially since it particularly matters mostly for people going in blind into content)
which song is playing in the second half of the video? (~minute 7 onwards)
Eden titan's ost
Finding this a month later, but good gawd I would love some class specific stuff. I unlocked Gunblade and have no idea what half the skills will do. Fighting a dummy only does so much to figure out skills and rotations without seeing the buffs in action. I often forget what bard skills do since I mostly heal or tank. Only yesterday did I realize the differences between summoning ifrit, titan, and garuda on summoner. 😅 I'm a casual player and terrible with mechanics cuz my memory is piss poor but I do try to learn and grow.
May I ask what Chest piece you're wearing at 4:00? I thought it looked really neat (especially if it gets dual dye for Dawntrail) and got no clue what piece it is
Looks like the heaven's ward coat from the mog store
@@hollowlord8253 Agreed, looks very much like it
The guides online that I found helpful for any game usually boils down what you want to achieve, not how you do it necessarily. For example: A monk wants keep up a dot and a damage buff as well as access stronger attacks via perfect balance while keeping up a free-form rotation that flows 2-2-3. Teach them why they press their buttons and I think they will not have to think about their rotation so much they miss the mechanics and they can also recover from rotational mistakes more easily if they actually understand fundamentals. Teaching mechanics is kind of what the normal fights are there for I think, and learning them should be alright in a trial in partyfinder.
II would absolutely love expert tutorials. I was lucky enough to have friends teach me high end play as GNB and WHM, but I've found myself wanting to learn everything else, both to widen my own range, as well as be able to better know how to integrate into other rotations happening in the dungeon/trial/raid.
Amazing video and very good points made. I gotta ask though what's the name of that coat your character is using? 👀 shit looks gud
Haven’t played since Heavensward and just recently came back a few weeks ago. I am mainly a crafter/gatherer but also am a WAR/MNK main. Back then I enjoyed spending hours getting my rotation down (especially with Mnk positioning). Grinding the rotation complexities and how to overcome them always gave me a sense of accomplishment…and it still does surprisingly.
Certain traits and abilities get upgrades as you level up. It’s an introductory to what is to come. Knowing your rotations all comes down to how much effort you’re willing to put in practicing. Once you’re comfortable with said rotation, implementation is just a matter of knowing the fight mechanics. Everything else falls into place. Maybe it’s just me, but a lot of what you mentioned naturally comes with leveling a job.
Then again, people are different and receptive to different things. I pay a lot of attention to other DPS and tanks to see how they do things and if it’s something I can throw into my tool bag. Some don’t really do this and that’s fine too. BUT…my opinion may change in the future. I just hit 70 and finished stormblood lol.
Yeah i'm on the same boat. Your Tutorial Ideas are really great. Would be so much fun plus you'll learn something which makes your gameplay better and funnier :3
What I want them to do is to disallow new players from purchasing boosts (both job and story skips) until they've hit at least level 50 on a main character. Too many times have I encountered brand new players with level skips that had no idea what an aoe even is.
Yeah, SE isn’t going to do that because money, but I wish.
There's quite a few players though who do know basic game mechanics due to existing in other games.
We need tutorial dungeons in game. From basic mechanics to raid ones like the savage modes have and explain how they work. It's annoying to have to look up guides and not have the ability to practice this mechanic without going into an actual raid then meeting people who just get angry at you for not having known how the convoluted mechanics work as a whole...
I had a similar idea using job quests - After every 10 levels, a quest is required to get the ability you'd get at that level (i.e. for SGE currently, to get Panhaima at level 80), like it is for the older expansions. Rather than being associated with your job/role story, you would get teleported to a training ground like the HotN (maybe to show off your sweet new skills to admiring onlookers from your GC, idk the lore don't matter). The quest would be a series of VERY short battle situations where you have to use each of the new skills you acquired appropriately, (e.g. for SGE, it would teach you how to use Rhizomata, Holos, and Panhaima at level 80). If you'd like, it could be complete with text boxes that actually freeze the game, highlight the button you have to use, and do not unfreeze until you press it (I think the current UI with silent text boxes is part of why attempts to do this sort of thing with current job quests aren't super effective). Something as simple as "[Enemy name here] is about to release a series of repeated attacks, press Panhaima to repeatedly shield your party!". Simple 10 second repeated raidwide, a green checkmark, and you're on your way, in total hopefully shorter than most of the solo duties you currently have to do at those levels. Stolen straight out of your everyday modern single-player RPG, and essentially a gate to make sure if you're doing content at the level cap for that expansion, you know what all the relevant buttons are.
A similar role-based system could teach how to use all of the role abilities at level 50 for each role to unlock the final one (e.g. Rescue).
Is this a metric ton of work that would have to get partially redone each expansion, and could people just skip through it and not learn anything? Absolutely! But I think maintaining up-to-date and relevant tutorials is a worthwhile expense, and overall I don't think it'd be IMPOSSIBLY burdensome to essentially bring the player to the HotN and have a generic enemy do a single action, with the appropriate counter from the player allowing them to pass (for DPS skills, the enemy doesn't have to do anything at all!). It'll also give SE a good chance to teach use cases for things that aren't super intuitive for new players (e.g. Pepsis and Emergency Tactics, using Holos before damage, etc), and take a second look at things that are more or less useless like Repose.
It'd be nice as well to allow them to keep the ease of normal content where it is, where players aren't punished for being bad, but force them into a single situation where they do have to show a little bit of job competence once per expansion, with no stakes, at the very end. Can even give em a handsome sack of gil as a congratulations.
I don't know, maybe it's just me but Rhizomata and Holos are rather intuitive for the level at which you get them. With Rhizomata being a simple "I'm out of charges but want to use one" button and Holos being an overall great action for preventing party wide damage, as I understand (I'm level 79 rn). It's explaining the "secondary basics" as one might call them, such as making sure to use your AoE and not sleep on any of your off global cooldowns that actually matter imo. Hell, until recently I completely ignored Druochole thinking it wouldn't be helpful and I already have enough ways to spend my charges but seeing the dps drop to below half health all of a sudden so I gotta drop what I'm doing to cast diagnosis too often changed that.
In addition to make it a teaching place I would also make it be part of the role quests you have to do to unlock certain spells. That way people will definitely experience it (because some will miss the training hall) and can go back to it at a later point.
Something I wish to have is a place to have an explanation for all the mechanics. What to do when you get the pulsing circle (stack at the player) what to do when you get the big pulsing circle (go as far to the edge of it as possible) etc.
I think implementing some of these into role/job quests would be good, but I don't really feel like all of them should. For the majority of content, unless you are actually doing endgame stuff, as in ultimates/savages most of these don't matter. doing your basic combo correctly obviously does, as is playing general mechanics correctly, ie. tanks need to tank properly, healers need to do healing and dps when needed (tho not like a lot of sweaty players complain that healers actually need to dps more than heal because that is only true in content where everyone actually knows mechanics and is properly focusing on the fight, something i don't think can be expected for basic dungeons).
stuff like buff rotations or stuff are way beyond what i think most players need to learn, and i worry that if these would be tied to quest/job progression it would actually turn players off of playing. I remember before they added the difficulty options for quest instances, it was always a horrible slog that could waste what felt like 20 minutes if you didn't realize you were supposed to do something spesific, and some of them felt almost impossible to do at the time. And i worry that that would be the experience with these job training things too, where you just don't really understand what you're supposed to do and why, since most of that isn't actually that important while playing
when i initally started my FF14 journey, i never actually had issue knowing the rotation of skills to the point i outright didnt look up a guide for most till way later to see if there was anything i was missing, and the majority of the time i didnt miss anything because a good chunk actually explained in the skill info. now there are outliers of it being not enough, took a bit to exactly understand fully what white mages(job i started out on) lillys were, and black mages fire and ice states. straight up without extensive testing on exact numbers increase, its impossible to tell how strong each state actually is and is one of the few things i HAD to look up because there is just no way to know that umbral ice 3 gives 31x regen and astral fire gives 1.8x fire dmg, i honestly thought it was at best 1.15x for astral fire 3 initally. the other thing of knowing the difference of spells/weapon skills vs abilitys, i personally didnt play games that didnt have this kind of thing. but honestly i think the majority of the really bad players just refuse to read what their skill does far more then lack of teaching tools, because tbh im fairly sure they will ignore the teaching tools if they refuse to even read the skills.
im throwing this out there, its probably stupid because i am a stupid person. But i think if they implement like a grade system that shows your results at the end of every instance can help people improve. Like devil may cry, how at the end of every mission gives you your performance result. Only yours though, because square isnt big on bullying. but itll put up stuff like damaged done, missed positionals, avoidable damage taken, time, dropped combos, damage output etc.
I feel given the battle log nature, all the data would then be sent to fflogs which would then lead to further drama.
I would love this so much!
100% agree that there needs to be some required training on common dungeon/raid mechanics somewhere as I have seen at least a dozen players doing level-skips and then having no idea what mitigation even is, what their job is supposed to do, or how to do their job. I also do get the "but how long before the training gets outdated?" question, while a perfectly valid concern every training also needs to be updated when job changes are introduced and should go hand-in-hand. Trainings are a continuous effort that have to be updated frequently so that it reflects the experience and allows players to learn from them. This is in my opinion the biggest issue here, SE made trainings but never bothered to update them with the newest additions to the game. Also, the trainings should include something significant in order to offset the time spent, so also including the current tier(50/60/70/80) poetic gearset for free after training completion could be a great way to incentivize completion.
The issue is it's not maintainable to have such detailed tutorials. Every time we have class reworks or modifications the tutorials would all have to be scrapped and changed again. Imagine the amount of work that would have to go into the paladin's recent overhaul alone? I've been told by friends who actually play blackmage that their rotations can change wildly every 3 levels at certain points due to skill unlocks.
I can see perhaps enforcing a "hit this minimum DPS" dummy that is solo instanced at the start of every expansion. We already have this in the stone, sky, sea dummy missions, but nothing ever makes you attempt them. We should also add one more lesson to tanks hall of the novice that teaches mitigating on tank busters, raid wides, and spacing mitigation rather than blowing it all at once. We can't expect anything more detailed though because it creates far too much burden if/when they want to make tweaks or radical reworks to any class.
I feel like, in some of the earlier job quests, they attempted to explain the logic of intended skills based on the story content, as well.
But with all the job reworks, the job quests (and, by extension, Hall of Novice) got left behind and now there's a disconnect between what's talked about in the quests (Arcanist job quests is the most jarring example, imo) and what the jobs do at present. And with the expected additional reworks for AST and DRG, job mastery feels virtually unattainable because, at this point, we're gonna expect another rework in another year or two just as people are finally getting used to the jobs.
Tooltips could be streamlined a great deal for a start. There's a bunch of inconsistency in how it phrases things around positionals for instance.
Somewhere in some piece of mandatory content they need to force you to use a limit break so that you know it exists and you have it on your bars.
I think the "showing the rotation" piece could be an optional view at the ability list similar to the updates they made a bit ago where you can see the combos attached to each other. Have a "damage line" view that shows the abilities in the optimal order of use.
I think that a hall of the expert could work, have a new one each expansion that's optimised for whatever the level cap is at the time and gate the day 1 extremes behind it. new expansion, new hall, sort of like a license renewal. Alternatively rather than it being a side content thing that gets refreshed, have it take the place of the role quests and then gate an MSQ behind it like ShB did. Call them the trials of light or some such and bring back some familiar job NPCs. Maybe you have trust system style things based on starting cities where you get the ninja, warrior, scholar and summoner npc and run a dungeon, and your NPCs are whichever role you aren't and then you essentially do what you're describing.
I think something the game is pretty good at is exposing you to group content through the leveling experience. Yes you might suck as a player, but you've gotten raid experience through trials, done enough dungeons to have seen a bunch of mechanics and to not have a load of anxiety about doing new stuff. I would argue that your average FF player is more ready for its end game content than players of other MMOs are for theirs because of the forced group content.
Tooltips are pretty handy, yeah. My number one piece of advice I ALWAYS give to newer players is:
Step 1: go to Character -> Actions and Traits
Step 2: Thoroughly read what ALL of your actions do (role actions included!) and do the same for any more you learn.
The reason I'm averse to tutorials and such is because they tried that with the first job quest for SGE but it's done super poorly. They just tell you that you can heal or heal with shield or heal via kardion and then just throw you in, with the last encounter being brutal for a first time healer. I would instead explain sage like this:
You have six main tools in your kit:
Kardia - Designates a target to get healed when you take an offensive action
Dosis - basic single target damage spell
Diagnosis - basic single target heal
Prognosis - basic AoE heal
Eukrasia - Changes the previous two abilities to heal for less but provide a shield at the cost of requiring more mp, and causes Dosis to apply a DoT rather than dealing direct damage. All of these modified actions are instant casts, as is Eukrasia itself
Dyskrasia - basic AoE damage spell, what you'll be casting for most of the dungeon
Keep these where you can easily cast them, because you will need to do so a lot.
Beyond this, you have something called the Addersgall gauge, which generates one charge every twenty seconds to a maximum of three. You can spend the charges on the following off global cooldowns (each of which restore 700 mp to you when used):
Druochole - More potent single target heal, boasting a cooldown of only one second.
Taurochole - Even more potent single target heal that applies a 10% damage reduction. 45 second cooldown
Ixochole - More potent AoE heal, 30 second cooldown
Kerachole - Applies a 10% damage reduction to all nearby party members. 30 second cooldown.
These are essential in keeping everyone healthy while still casting Dosis as often as you can, and provide a small boost to MP management as a bonus.
Additionally, you have two other offensive spells:
Toxikon - requires charges that generate whenever a shield you grant to someone is completely depleted within its duration, up to a max of 3. Deals decent damage to single targets or groups of enemies, but is best saved for when you need to dodge AoEs and can't sit still to cast dosis/get close to cast dyskrasia
Phlegma - Powerful single target spell with a large AoE but a fairly small range. Can store up to 2 charges with a 40 second cooldown.
The rest of your kit can be figured out on your own, and for the most part will help you out in more niche situations/when you're in a pinch.
That might be a bit of a text wall, but all things considered it doesn't take long to read. I know if I had a similar simple beginners guide when picking up any of the dlc classes I would have gotten the hang of it very quickly. Of course, some form of hall of the expert at level 50 that tells you to use your oGCDs and to use AoE actions when fighting several enemies would probably be nice.
"Somewhere in some piece of mandatory content they need to force you to use a limit break so that you know it exists and you have it on your bars."
Ultima Weapon does this now, you basically have no chance of passing the ending DPS check without the LB3 that your god explicitly gives you
"Alternatively rather than it being a side content thing that gets refreshed, have it take the place of the role quests and then gate an MSQ behind it like ShB did. Call them the trials of light or some such and bring back some familiar job NPCs. "
I fucking love this idea, just, a hard stop test. Not just because I really would like to make sure that at this point I do actually know how to play each class, but because certain people would get SO MAD and it would be hilarious.
@@antheraea.mothcore honestly would be a better use of everyone's time than forcing people to find a party for each of the hard primal trials at the end of ARR
They also need to inform new people about this games built in delay and funky snapshot timings. Too many people dunno about them and they scratch their heads in confusion as to way they died coming from other games that don’t have that type of delay and snapshot in it.
Add a glossary with images or short in-game display able videos that explain all the generic markers and mechanics with recommendations on what to do in the situations where they pop up.
i feel like the level 70 job quests would have been a really great place to put some sort of "you've come this far, now let's see what you know" kind of skill-check/tutorial, since that's the last level we have proper job quests before transitioning into role quests. not only would it be a good way to prepare people for the difficulty ramping up in SHB content by reminding them about some of their skills they may not have been using because stormblood content may not have pushed them hard enough to need them, but it's also a nice narrative capstone to the job quests themselves and a lot of the stories could very well benefit from a final duel with your teachers or something similar
another tutorial to consider would be a 2-minute burst tutorial, especially if the game is going to force us into playing around a 2-minute meta, since it hurts the entire party in all levels of content if bursts are not lined up. it doesn't need to be "this is how you fully optimize your burst" but a simple "be sure to use this party buff every chance you get! sync it up with your NPC party members' buffs so you can defeat this trial!" should be enough to teach people they need to use their 2-minutes together with everyone else. that is, of course, assuming the 2-minute meta is here to stay, imo since it's Square's own design choice to have it they should consider putting a tutorial on it since it's now a cornerstone of the combat gameplay
if we put aside that we will always have silly ass single target tanks and ice mages, i really think there needs to be better means for us to practice stuff in game or learn certain things like you mentioned. i don't know about job specific stuff, though - i think role specific "training" instances that aren't just barebones (like the ones you mentioned) would be awesome.
I'd call the teaching place Bardam's Mettle hard. It's an 8 man encounter where you pick the role you want. Mt, OT, both style healer, and each DPS style will be the options with NPCs filling the 7 you don't pick. Trash packs will be larger to simulate wall pulls with each boss having harder mechanics (tank swaps, light parties, ect). If you clear it as a role you get decent looking usable armor, but it you complete it as every role you get a unique mount with special music.
Best tutorial for melee dps is the samurai lvl54 quest back in shadowbringers. As a sprout going in that thing without accessories was definitely a humbling experience.
Can YoshiP teach me what a protean, dynamo and chariot are....
I think something for DPS could be a mini boss fight where the boss has a light regen on it's health constantly, so if you don't maintain a proper rotation for the most part, you will make very little progress, because the boss constantly heals at a similar rate to the minimum DPS you could do just doing your core rotation without any weaves.
Honestly I think since it’s an mmorpg they think people will share and teach others cuz…well it’s an mmo >_> I thought that was the point of it
I am still learning some mechs on the higher level content as I have unlocked it, but I have stuck to the same few jobs and new stuff I always use my main to learn them. Now I'm a DNC main so it's more about managing aoes vs single attacks and using my buffs as they come along. I'm sure tanks have it worse with noobs drawing agro and not knowing where the tank will end a pull.
This is a good idea except when expansions change a rotation drastically like how summoner lost its DOT from its RRB rotation and turned into a game of Simon. For DNC I would love a challenge of using dance partner aoe heals and Def buff mitigation/ improvise to get a party though a raid wide attack. Could be a good lesson. We aren't the best healers but in a pinch can help and I hope more DNC are practicing that as well.
The problem with trying to set a minimal level of expected competence is that we currently have no reliable method of verifying them without third part tools.
You can pick up on quite a few things even without 3rd party tools. That one person collecting vuln stacks like pokemon cards, that ranged standing in the middle of nowhere not receiving any party heal, not seeing a dance partner, that dps lower in aggro than the heal usually means less dps (exception ofc is when that dps was dead, which then leads to the question, death by avoidable damage or lack of healing), the heal not cleansing and dots happily ticking away, that melee never once leaving the rear, etc etc
I have to agree to an extent with you, I have been playing for a little while, but I still don't know a few boss machanics work. I play DPS and I've kinda been winging it.
I do think the training halls should have OPTIONAL extra tasks to do each expansion showing you the machanics relavant to it.
They should reward with exp and gear for that expansion like they do in the base game. Give you gear that is mid-level for expansion to encourge you to do it early on.
I always know the basic rotation of any class Im playing. But I dont have a clue how to fit it into the 2 minute buff windows in raids. Never done a raid and kinda dont want to cause the rotations seem so intimidating. Like, it seems like you just CANT mess up. Idk how people keep perfect track of their rotation while dealing with boss mechanics
Over the last 2 expansions the game has gone from random 4 player dungeons to 3 NPC + a solo player.
But if i could design some tutorials the would focus on being better team players. Healers who know what Esuna is, DPS who know how to use the party list to know when they are out of healing range, and people who focus on they job they are playing and not try to "mentor" others and die because they are not paying attention to where they are.
Weskalber has been a nice channel for learning basic rotation stuff. That said I remember when I learned and practiced my sam rotation and it was night and day and my static which had just formed had noticed as well.
The thing is... yeah, the game doesn't do a great job at teaching but im my opinion you should have enough braincells to read your tooltips and make sense of them after *400 HOURS* OF STORY CONTENT!
Some people can struggle with piecing together tooltips, I can understand that, so I'm very much in favour of having more guided tutorials available, should people want them
Perhaps if the game allowed you to spend 400 hours on honing your skills instead of forcing you to endure an insufferably boring story (except ShB, that one was great) this wouldn’t bee much of a problem.
Even a way less complex game like Tekken has in game move/combo lists, plus it has a VERY comprehensive practice mode...
Sure FFXIV has A LOT of tutorials too, but quantity doesn't always equal quality... Is the term 'rotation' ever mentioned ANYWHERE in the actual game..? (Seriously, I don't know - I only started playing a few months ago 😅)
Ps. I play on console so I don't even have access to tools like ACT so you KNOW I suck! But then again should I need to break ToS to try and get good..?
It's bizarre that the job quests don't teach you how to play your class.
I mean the game has button that lights up however in that 400 hours there is nothing that will body check you... so why should the average story only player care about improving when the game just allows you to win anyway?
Shared on bluesky
I almost think there should be a more gradual ramp to savage, with some tutorial points. change the EX quests early on so you HAVE to do them synced, and add more difficult normal content on a gradient up to progging something like an savage or an ultimate. make it such that that content is done solo, or with a group, but make it such that it would be virtually impossible to be carried through it. when an new marker is introduced, and active help window should pop to tell you what that does, or even before the fight, and some other things like that. if we make the stack markers brutal where all 4 peeps in a dungeon have to be in it... people will learn what those markers mean. and like what other have said, we could have just more bardums mantle type dungeons and things to teach you some of those mechanics. the last thing i want is peeps to just be fustrated because they don't understand how to identify and learn the mechanics of the game.
i want to take my freinds through savage but i'm almost sure they aren't ready for it. not because i don't think they can do it but because they don't know the mechanics or how to identify them.
As a new player, I would welcome a tutorial for all major ability "types" relevant in content specifically, not just text, but how stuff works in practice.
So, basically the "detailed" stuff mentioned in the video, I think?
Buffs, debuffs, mitigation, gauge stuff etc. Something like that, maybe?
I've struggled the most with properly spacing out my mitigation as a tank because of figuring out what's best for making life easier for healers and dps, the actual pacing of it - obviously I found some help online once people yelled at me in df, but I feel the game should at least tell you, "oh this is how it would be cool to space them out".
(And I feel Hall of the Novice didn't really convey that part that clearly, unless I forgot?)
There have only been two-three times I've been yelled at in df out of numerous runs, so I think I'm doing alright now?
But I also still don't know how to tell whether it's me screwing up or the healer, for one example. When did I use not enough mit and when did the healer do poorly? You die either way.
I'm also terrible at keeping track of debuffs and status effects because they always seem to just pile on you in massive amounts and still haven't developed the muscle memory for keeping track of them.
I have no plans to step into harder content, happy stuck in normal roulette because I'm mostly here for the story, but I at least don't want to be a bother in normal because not only am I having a blast just doing the roulette and trying to do it the best I can, I also like helping people through it. It feels satisfying.
(And then there are the times I just tunnel vision with no brain input on two abilities and feel terrible afterwards because that's where I genuinely know I screwed up.)
This is also my first game like this, with this many keybinds and abilities to keep in mind along with a 3D space, so I'm actually kind of grateful for the "slow" start.
Maybe some of this is also very obvious and I'm just slow at picking it up.
I didnt know what limit break was until i got to ultima weapon when you need to befire he casts ultima
Hands down, players need to be able to complete the stone/sky/sea or lawns/etc trial that is sync'd to the max of an expansion before moving onto the next. The 60/70/80 etc are surprisingly well tuned. If you can't beat that.....get some practice in. I think your idea of hall of the expert is a good wish, and I'd certainly encourage that but that's a bit of 'pie in the sky'. That said FF could also do with a hint more of content variety with some content acting as stopgaps, like for example delubrum reginae was actually a REALLY good step between normal 10 player raids/alliance raids and ex. We could use a few more 'steps' in the process of other content as well, like something between your normal dungeons and the savage criterion (I don't consider criterion more difficult than regular dungeons), but like it's really dated, they could use some dungeons like the pits of saron/halls of reflection that wow had in wotlk that were heroics and didn't mess around for their time. As it is you go from playing pattycakes to extremes and the gap between that is a cutoff point for a lot of players.
The game does a great job of teaching mechanics, but it does it relatively slowly and/or late. They've only relatively recently changed old Dungeons and Trials to better reflect late game content.
Bardams Mettle is legit one of the few that is actually designed to teach you mechanics.
Everything else you're kind of expected to pick up over time by watching other players or the AI.
And back on the topic of the starting experience, they have improved it significantly. I alredy mentioned the revamping of old Trials and Dungeons, but Duty Support has been a godsend for people who just want to progress the MSQ.
It's doing a better job at teaching mechanics (particularly from ShB and onward), but still could be way better. Tank swapping isn't in any normal content. Yeah the new player experience is slightly better than it used to be but man does it still have a long way to go.
ARR could use another trim, and most jobs leveling experience should be like MNK or at the very least SMN (where you get a baby form of your end game rotation).
@@oEXTRAyeah, the early leveling slog is the main thing that's keeping me from leveling Dragoon and Summoner. Its a *nightmare*
Agree with this, I personally only know rotation of rdm pld and astro fully, at lvl 50.60.70.80.90 respectively. As i main them. It would be sick to be able to have a nice learn guide like as you say. For high content.
I would make one for each job in which you'd be asked to do one single cycle of a rotation in two different ways that difer in something very subtle for the player to figure out why the difference.
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The problem with guides and discords is when I've looked for rotations, I've ended with obsolete info or info that's wrong (not necessarily wrong, some of the 'wrong' cases are more of a debatable thing I disagree because my answer works better or makes more sense to me or their recommendation is just what should be a note of the type "if your ping or comfort makes that not work quite well for you, this other way does just as well").
A Term/Phrase Glossory is always a nice thing. One with a small search feature, I'm new to FF14, and not played any MMO beyond a few hours here and there on GW2 or ESO. There is still some terms that trip me up, that seem to be super common at endgame, but it's not like that game ever helps teach them
(Sorry for the wall of text, lol)
I believe as a casual player in FF14 it's sometimes too easy to join content that's way harder than expected without realizing it and that leads to the issue of Mid/Hardcore-Players thinking, those players are not being taught enough in the game.
I think the game offers enough help for players already to beat most of the content. We have, Hall of the Novice, Novice Network and Mentors for offering tips, Practice/Sprout Groups for getting into the fights with potentially people explaining mechanincs and generally helping out (This is how I got into harder content when I started). We have the DPS Checks in Palaka's Stand and overall you do learn a lot during MSQ and Duty Roulettes / Normal Mode Content.
If people want to get into harder content, they can choose to do it with Echo and there are also really beginner friendly fights in the game. Actually, they don't choose it, Echo is usually enabled and here lies the problem I mentioned above.
The thing is, for most "Normal" content ingame you actually don't have to learn anything except what you actaully take in from the Hall of the Novice and what you learn during MSQ to beat the content and I do not blame players who don't see it necessary to improve, since it's only really worth if you actaully wanna do Extremes and Savage and even there I belive execution of mechanics and survival is way more important than doing proper rotations and actually encountering DPS Checks, unless you make the content harder (low Ilvl, no echo, and especially play hard content on release, etc.).
Remember, this is what people do, that are usually already invested in that kind of content. Usually more casual players do the content later where often times encountering DPS Checks rarely happen anymore due to gear upgrades and echo. In their game enviroment, it's way more important to execute mechanics and simply survive the encounter.
If someone is interested to get into harder content, the tools are there already, but I believe what would help a lot is a recommendation system for beginner friendly Extreme/Savage content. The varience for difficulty in this kind of content is too broad imo and it's easy for a Beginner-Raider to fall victim to something that's harder and for some people it's just unexpected.
For example, if you always do raids with Echo and being overgeared, how are you supposed to know doing new Savages/Extremes on patch day are way more difficult, simply from a casual player perspective. I believe those are the situations where most mid-hardcore players believe, the game doesn't offer enough to teach those more casual players. It's a matter of perspective, context and game knowledge and not a skill issue I believe.
As an easy example, just compare the Coils of Bahamut Raid with the MinIlvl/No Echo Version of this Raid, it's like playing a completely different game and that should be made more clear, on how huge of an impact Echo and High iLvl actually is for the difficulty of the game.
Just imagine being a Casual player that only did Extremes, maybe some Savages with echo and being overgeared, now wanting to try out a new Extreme on patch day - it's a shock for them, because when else in the game do you encounter a situation where your stats are not boosted? They will think stuff like "Damn, why did the group got killed, I never needed to mitigate before" and it's legit.
I got nervous clicking this when i saw the title and thumbnail tbh xD but i totally agree. it would be great to have better teaching tools in game. Honestly the Hall of Novice isnt really even that good either. i cant remember exactly but i remember doing one of the trainings and being like "this isnt what you should do at all..." but heck id love a tank tutorial because as of right now Im a decent tank but id love to be able to get pointers or learn how to better myself without having to search youtube for tutorials or word guides x.x
i think the only "error" in the hall of the novice is that its still talks about some outdated Mechanics, like different accuracy rattings for Front , back and flank attacks.. and that really dosnt affect much outside of getting people to probably be behind the boss more even if it dosnt do
There's other things I could pick and ideas that I have, but if it could only be one, it would just be adding the concept of mitigation into the tutorials for all classes. I don't know how you gracefully do that on classes that don't have mitigation tools by Hall of the Novice, but I definitely think when and how and why to use mitigation and making it part of what you're thinking about on EVERY class is something that's completely "skippable" in the current experience.
So long as it's mandatory I agree with what you said, another not really fix seeing as it doesn't really teach but low effort for the dev team to do thing could be to make clearing the stone, sea, sky dummy tied to a certain fight mandatory to clear prior to entering a fight. They might have to change the HP values of the dummies and granted it doesn't really help with healers but for tanks and DPS it could at least test if they know how to do decent baseline of damage prior to doing the fight
I think not knowing your rotation after a certain amount of time often comes down to not actually caring about your performance, though there are cases where someone just has a hard time wrapping their head around the info that is availlable. But in this regard the game at least gives you tools such as target dummies to figure it out at your own pace, and there's plenty of content creators making guides so you can check if you've got it right or not.
The kind of tutorials I'd like to see more of are ones that actually show you the various kinds of boss mechanics that got added over the years, their visual indicators, and how to deal with them, so that people don't have to go into them either blind or seeing it from another POV in a YT video. I think it could save a lot of frustration for many groups if new players could recognize how to do a mechanic that's new for them instead of finding out the hard way what it does at the expense of other people's time.
I also wish there was something like the adventure guide from WoW, which lists every boss in a raid, the items they drop, but more importantly, basic mechanics for each role and a general idea of how to deal with them. It doesn't tell you everything, but at least it gives you something. Though I could see this being considered a spoiler of the raid, looking up a video of the fight is just as much.
I'm an avid mentor. I am ready and willing to take anyone to a training dummy and explain and show off a rotation and a simple lay out. But yeah just about every class can be learned in a couple of minutes with a paragraph blurb of the greater picture and reading the tooltips. Its a social game, talk to people. If the person doesnt care then no tutorial will help.
The mechanics such as "stacking arrows" should be added to some early solo-duties in the MSQ, and get some of the voice actors to add one or two sentences that get played during the fight such as "That attack may hurt alone, lets deal with it together". That way players know or at the very least get taught what the mechanic is, and how to deal with it, and the fact that it's a voice clip played during a fight, and not just a text box or cutscene, means that players should not accidentally skip it.
I have every single combat job at 90 and I didn't know Empyreal Arrow proced the song buffs I just hit it cause free damage button.
Im kinda late but as a new player (10 days 4 hours play time) i would love to have the hall be like this
Just a thing that I do when I decide to kinda practice with my healing or tanking (both of which I loathe doing) I'll go into a trust. The NPC AI aren't perfect but it at least simulates a party. I agree with the idea of at least a tutorial on mechanic markers, especially when they throw a new one on us. I can't count the number of times while I was a sprout being like "oh hey what does this mean..... aaaaaand I'm dead." We're just supposed to automatically know this means stack together, this one means the tank has body odor, this Dorito is for sharing and this one isn't even though they're the same damn Dorito (they could at least spicy nacho vs cool ranch for that or something...), go stand in the blue puddle and then the yellow puddle while Nophica blows kisses at you, you get what I mean... And things like that are another reason I don't like tanking or healing.
TL:DR - FF14 is designed in a way to make the average player significantly more skilled at the game than any other MMO. This also means that the bad players are significantly worse than every other MMO's bad players. The accessibility and wide reaching casual content also does not exclude bad players from enjoying the game, so there is significantly more of them. While other MMOs would just force bad players to quit.
FF14 player skill gaps are incredibly unique. The game actually has incredible tutorials in the form of the MSQ slowly teaching you the same mechanics over and over. Unity in telegraphing forces the average player to learn every fights mechanics through basic patern recognition. This leads to the average skill of the entire community being significantly higher mechanical competence than nearly ever other games community. On the flipside of that, the actual difficulty of MSQ content allows players that cannot cross that simple hurdle to be dragged accross the finish line, preventing them from being completely excluded from the game. This also feeds into the wide reaching and fully developed casual content of the game. It builds a healthy base of casual gamers that have no business being in a savage or similar content to fully enjoy the game. They are not forced into it as the only pillar of content they have the option to explore. This also leaves people that are wholey committed to high end raiding content to progress within their own community. Which leads to many more super high skill level groups. The number of teams competing in world first ultimates is significantly more than any other game. Many MMOs stay afloat with a large silent casual base that survives off scraps of content they can gleen from the hard core minority. Such as progressing lower difficulty raids and dungeons while the community sees the highest difficulty of that content to be the "true" form of the content. While devs devote incredible amounts of resources to errecting these pillars of content and funneling the entire player base around them. FF14 instead divides players into skill groups and says that its ok to do what you want. Instead of funnelling the players into a theoretical end game as fast as possible. FF14 errects new pillars of content all the time and doesn't force you into any one thing. It unifies character progression accross may forms of content to add connective tissue between those pillars. So that playing another form of content never excludes you from another. Which again feeds into that skill, because being good is never handcuffed to a specific grind, a specific kind of content, a specific way to play. As long as you ahve basic mechanical competency and are playing the game in some fashion, everything short of ultimates is at your finger tips. This, again, means that everyone that wants to raid, wants to be good, whats to do these things, has all the tools at their disposal to succeed and damn near all of them do because of it. Not because the content is easy but because they worked for it and earned it with a game that rewarded their investment more than any other on the market.
I think it's more of a cultural difference. Japanese culture creating a video game hoping American gamers give all their money to the game creates barriers. Most of us are born and raised Americans. We are not Japanese. We are not from Japan. We do not think like the Japanese, and the game was created by a team of Japanese. A lot of FFXIV is dull, like Bozja, Eureka, slow leveling system for tons of classes etc. Heavensward relics are the perfect example of a hard-labor Japanese prison camp. You can't even go to the Market Board and buy some leather without having to type in 600 letters of what it's called because of the language translation. Lazy American gamers like ourselves don't talk, write, or spell like that. lol Spending 6 months progging 7 phases of DSR is a nightmare. Those who do well and can clear Ultimates like roulettes with this style of intellect in my experience tend to be Asian themselves, or have autism.
@@jimmorrison4ever529 "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." Billy Madison, 1995
While I think it's all a good idea, I don't think they'd ever do a job specific tutorial that in depth due to reworks. Should they? Yes, but I can see them just being lazy enough to not want to. Especially Astro, they keep changing that one every week. I just wish stone, sea and sky wasn't such an obscure feature, it's so randomly hidden away that's probably why you didn't include it or forgot to. It's a tutorial you could easily fail if you're not doing your whole kit and could actually inspire people to get good and learn, but it's like random NPC's in weird spots, like one is next to Palakas Stand in Thavnir (or whatever the 3rd teleport spot is called).
Stone sky sea definately needs to be in main cities. After returning to game with almost a year break had to google and search that npc.
This is why I think there should be something like what BLU gets, a solo bossfight arena which has some decent mechanics you need to do.
Make a normal extreme and savage version as a way to ease someone in to it and have some nice glam as rewards and add another 3-5 arenas each expansion, the extreme and savage would have an enrage and ideally savage is actually difficult where completing it is considered a solid achievement akin to necromancer or at the least doing savage tier on content.
ESO has something like this for both solo and 4 man and it's a great way of making someone really become a good player without having to do all of the learning up front in their first instance with a group of 8. For a while the weapon from solo and 4 man was actually BiS so you had to go do that before you wanted to get into a serious raiding guild anyways.
I think this style works a little better too, because if you tell me there's a tutorial for your class i might do it, but if you tell me there's a cool solo arena where you can get loot and test your skills with a leaderboard and fun mechanics, I'd probably just do it for fun and do the learning in the process.
You'd have to add tank/healer mechanics to make them utilize their full kit but still very doable
I think the solo story duties are "tutorials" in disguise.
I'd wanna learn that tanks can tank swap for specific mechs tbh...like where did that come from when it came to learning mechs? 1 tank skill that allowed agro swapping I guess. Nice Yoshi-P, nice.
I like that idea of a dictionary. Actually, they could do something along those lines for guildhests. Instead of guildhests being these strange one-off tasks, why not change them so they introduce players to the actual mechanics regularly used in the game now?
I've recently returned after a long break and have actually started a new character mainly because of this! I had about 800 hours playtime but I'm really glad I did! I definitely agree that some more tutorials would benefit players, especially later on in the the game, even some of the earlier extreme trials are really tough if you go in and don't play effectively or know what's going on with mechanics.
its gettin really bad. i main Sage
in a 90 expert dungeon i get paired up with a tank that only does his single target 1,2,3.
of course the dps gets the aggro.
if i change to my second main ( gnb ) and play with random people i get paired up with healers that only do dps and dont heal at all.
players standing in every boss aoe even if it takes ages before the attack comes.
in the past week alone i was paired up with soo many very bad players.
even a tank at 90 who doesnt activate his tank stance.
how is it even possible to get to 90 with little to no knowledge about the job you play?
Yes on more tutorials. I had to litterly look up some stuff on how to be a better player. While I tihnk advanced stuff should be within game knowledge...
I was able to pick up rotations easily after level 50.
These days I am getting better at "reactionary" saves as a healer or tank... heck sometimes as DPS if I can like Red Mage. (Love my ultility mage)
I have gotten commendations in normal raids/dungeons/alliance for being the guy who litterly gave up his shield to save a dying ally.
But rotations I had to fully learn how to use it.. and then when I did...I still dropped it and free styled it (im midcore I know)
But I avoid savages/extremes and ESPECIALLY ultimates and unreal. I did a few savages and extremes and I can say this... learning the raid mechanics is harder then learning my rotations.. and due to me reacting and learning I drop rotations easily...
In my opinion, it's best to learn these following things:
"What does the ring mean under enemies?"
"What's more important to do during raids?"
"What abillities can save a fight from failing?"
"What abillities can prevent mistakes?"
It's this kinda stuff that I find MORE important then anything.
Openers and rotations sure....
But I think we don't need just a Hall of The Expert.. but a Hall of The Hero.
The Expert teaches how to be a good midcore player... The Hero preps you for Ultimate Content. Learning you that mechanics from phaze 1... might apply to phaze 4..
Now I don't mean "Do a 20 min fight" but like... the game will teach you to pay attention and even throw in 1 curveball mechanic to tell you: "Sometimes the game WILL make you try something new. Be aware of that."
And at the same time the final trial will be a "short 6 min" Ultimate like raid where the players can make a few mistakes on rotation.. but they better learn to keep it up.
Using stuff like LB perfectly.
I think it's a great idea, but question I would have, how quickly would it get outdated with new levels/adjustments/revamps? How long would it take for them to be able to implement these new changes into the Hall of the Novice/Expert? I feel like the Balance discord will always be my initial go to on learning a job that I'm interested in playing since they are able to nerd out the information really quickly/keep it updated since it's often written and not in video/game format. Sadly for some, they may not know of the existence of Balance or even possibly Discord.
They could always do a basic one going over what is a combo string, what is an ogcd, what is an aoe. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people in 90 level dungeons that can't hit their three button aoe combo. Even if you've never played a class before, all classes have some form of aoe. If you point it out that they should use aoe, you get the typical ffxiv player attitude. "Omg, hitting three buttons if the enemy count is more than three. This is ultimate level play you elitist reee".
A big chunk would be evergreen, because they would cover role knowledge, basic mechanic archetypes and how to handle them. The few that cover rotations can be adjusted alongside changes to the job itself. So the answer is never, provided the devs remember to update them together with the jobs.
It would have to be at max level and kept up to date. We're getting so many changes every expansion. Just for dawntrail we know already AST and DRG are getting gutted (possibly CDs will be missing), and then maybe NIN getting some parts removed to allow more room for viper, and certainly the casters are getting nerfs for the new addition. Add to that the mid-expansion reworks, and you would get an extra 5-10 instances to be updated per expansion. It might be too much work for the dev team, and then you may as well have players that seem to forget everything they know when zoning in a DF/PF instance (very common in PF 😂)
I think your job quests should teach you your rotation as you get new skills
As a new-ish player there's one thing I think is needed. The ability to add a customizable colored border to skills so I can tell at a glance which skills on my bars have positionals and whether it's flank or rear without needing to read every tooltip any time i change to a less-played job.
It wouldn't really make the game easier, but it would help jog my memory of how to play a job with just a quick glance at my bars.
*_(After this I just kind of rant for a bit, feel free to skip)_*
And some commands that are keybinds really need a button on the UI, like the control + home keybind increases the size of any window... I spent way too long looking at an inventory that was way too small only to find out from a tip video that windows can be resized. That wasn't even a tip, the person just had a larger inventory than I did so I had to google. "FF14 how to increase inventory" ""FF14 how to increase inventory size" ""FF14 how to make inventory bigger" ""FF14 how to resize window" (got chat window for that, *_which is done differently from every other window_* ) ""FF14 how to increase window size". That last one finally gave me a 3 year old reddit post with one single comment on control + home.
Also the default settings are weird, especially the inventory tabs. And when using the one large bag option, the tabs still exist so rather than having new items go from left to right for the full width of the bag, it goes half the width then starts on the second line. And when it's done with the first tab, it goes to the right tab instead of the tab underneath the first. It's just inconsistent.
Why is the hunting log a thing? It just seems to have never gotten an update past ARR.
How did I not know there were duty finder settings? AND WHY IS LIMITED LEVELING ROULETTE ONLY FOR PREMADES?!?!?!?!?!?! That setting would really help keep alt job grinds fun.
And why doesn't /macro open up my macro menu? this is just a pet peeve of mine as it's easy enough to access them through the system menu, i guess.
Why doesn't it teach new players they can rent chocobo in starting cities? This literally would've save me hours before I got my personal chocobo.
Spirit bound gear is never explained... never.
There are too many settings menus which have too many categories and each category has too many tabs. At least give me a search box so I can find which menu -> category -> tab i need to be in.
I would create a ninja trial that makes you have to use your Ninjutsu for the right content. Use Fuma Shrunken to hit a target that is farther away than your throwing daggers range. Use ration to kill a larget that can only take damage from Raiton. Use Katon to kill a group of enemies in one attack. Use Suiton to hit an enemy that will only take damage from trick attack and then trick attack them. Use the Doton to and AOEs to kill enemies that are only damaged by the new Doton add on skill. Use the Ice Ninjutsu to freeze a bomb in place and run from it before it explode on you and kills you. Then a trial where you have to do all of them in rapid success requiring you to use hide in between to reset your ninjutsu counter.
One change that I would personally make? Require players to finish a set of class quest and unlock a jobstone before being able to progress into ARR's "Company of Heroes/Titan"-arc. Not only is the first quest of the arc a level 30 quest, but the duties it contains (Brayflox Longstop and Titan (4-player)) are the first ones where you're able to use a job's abilities even at the lowest available level. On a similar note, I would also make clearing a job's level 50 quest required for continuing the MSQ into Operation Archon (I've seen PLENTY of people completely walled by the Cape Westwind solo duty due to having horrifically outdated gear due to not doing their job quests).
...And at the same time make duties above level 30 require a jobstone equipped when not in a pre-made party so that the chances of getting Cutter's Cry with a partymember who hasn't even fought Ifrit yet will become non-existent.
The only thing I think is CRUCIALLY needed is an actual explicit explanation of all the universal mechanic markers, like you mentioned. These markers are great and extremely easy to read ONCE YOU KNOW THEM, but the process of actually LEARNING what they mean pretty much requires that you have someone to explain them to you. If you're not playing with experienced friends and no one ever bothers to explain what they see as "basic" mechanics in party chat, you're gonna have a really hard time figuring a lot of them out. And this doesn't just affect high-end raiding - even by the end of ARR you're gonna start having trouble staying alive in mandatory fights if you don't know what some of these markers mean. This is BY FAR the biggest thing the game is lacking in terms of tutorials IMO.
I don't think they'll ever do something that teaches a specific rotation, partly because they change jobs a lot and partly because I think most game devs don't want to enforce a single "correct" way of playing their game, even when the game is designed such that a de-facto "correct" way clearly exists. Most rotations can be figured out to a competent level just by reading tooltips anyway; if anything they might just want to encourage that somehow.
Beyond that I think the main stuff you called out that I would be interested in is the universal "how to play the game" type stuff, like teaching tanks to aggro adds or teaching healers to use their oGCDs. Honestly some of that could just be put in the Hall of the Novice. Anything more advanced like efficient mitigation usage is probably getting too technical (people who care will look it up anyway, people who don't will skip the tutorial), and some stuff like tank swaps are kinda too fight-specific to give a lot of general advice on.
We need tutorial dungeons in game. From basic mechanics to raid ones like the savage modes have and explain how they work. It's annoying to have to look up guides and not have the ability to practice this mechanic without going into an actual raid then meeting people who just get angry at you for not having known how the convoluted mechanics work as a whole... its REALLY frustrating from the pov of a person who wants to do raids but cant because i cant practice the mechanics in a party to learn how they work!
While I don't think job specific tutorials would work well with how frequently they change things, the rest of this sounds like a great idea. Roles on their own need more in depth higher level tutorials, more than the solo duties for unlocking an expac job you do once and can't revisit.
Hell, it took me months to pick up DNC entirely because at 60 I was completely unprepared for that solo duty, got overwhelmed, and didn't come back til I'd finished ShB and was much more confident in my abilities.
And I managed to more or less figure out ShB SMN intuitively, the only adjustments I needed were Titan-egi attack on dungeon mobs instead of Garuda-egi and a bit of fine tuning with dots.
Looking back, it's very silly that DNC ever felt too big brain for me, but that's just how it is for folks when they're starting out. I'd have loved a proper tutorial on any of this stuff rather than sandbagging pugs in duty finder by being complete ass.
I think a good bare minimum change for the language of the standardized mechanics markers would be to at least have little tutorial pop ups similar to the ones they have for job guages. Have them show up before someone queues the first piece of content they show up in that someone does explain hey, this mechanic indicator is about to be in the content you're going into, this is what that means.
they should had implement this in the class quests. u should get the skills or a trial version of it during the quest and try n use it in battle throwing in new mech and markers. i think that would be the easiest and safest way to make everyone understand and uptodate on your kit since the class quest are mandatory to learn new skills!!
I'd love an ABC tutorial. For every 0.2 second spent with GCD rolling, you get a massive damage. Like an opposite pyretic, I think the name is?
I think have 3 halls, hall of the novice at 15, hall of the intermediate either at 40 or 50, and hall of the expert at 70. Having a bridge that teaches you unintuitive things like weaving, tank busters and non telegraphed AOE's and even something as odd as wall to walling. Make it so it's not so overwhelming going from baby's first dungeon to stone vigil.
forget the rotation how about doing mechanics right in savage???
One thing no one has mentioned i think we have to consider button bloat. Too many skills exist late game that perform a similar function to low level abilities. New players, particularly tanks, seem to just pop everything and hope for the best.
I think that they made an at least attempt at this with Bardam’s Mettle in Stormblood, but was definitely lacking and would welcome an additional attempt at this.
What I liked most about it was that it was a dungeon, so made it mandatory.
Good idea but the why they do it can be in a dungeon run or in the lower side of dungens by making them harder be a good help and a better for a lower class not have the good things that are at 50 or higher
I like teaching the different encounter markers and how to handle them.
As a healer main the hall of the novice is only semi useful (not very much). Whether or not they've changed certain aspects of it recently I don't know (been a few years since I did it). But certain things such as you not being in a party means that any aoe heals you use won't be activated on the npc's you need to heal, also to single target heal them you need to click target. Both of these things alone are badly designed. In a normal party setup you can use F1-F4/F8 (depending on party size) to target each party member for pc users and your aoe heals will land on all party members in range. But I think in the end it's up to individual players to learn their chosen job. A lot of the learning for healing in general and my job specifically (astro) I got from figuring things out myself, but mostly from other players.
Among all else I really like the idea of showing them common mechs like stack marker, etc. Learning by dying isn't a bad thing but some kind of introduction to prepare people I think would be very good.
Agree with everything but a trial with standardized markers, i feel that letting people experience them for the first time in various content as they progress makes it so that people dont get bored with new content in their journey.
If it was done at 70 we could wedge in a Garlean defector to be the teacher as the premise of preparing us for what's to come as the Garleans will not take the loss of Ala Mhigo lightly.