Like your videos mate, ive watched all the top channels, wont mention any in particular, but i found myself walking away with questions, your vids are exhaustive and yet so simple to understand, keep up the great work...
Hi Nick. I love your content. Your videos got me playing tennis with no prior experience about a year and a half ago. You have the most comprehensive and detailed videos on every stroke and I appreciate you providing these resources for free 🙏 I keep coming back to the same videos as I progress my skills and understand more and more from the same videos. I have the issue you mentioned in the video. I don't raise my racket on edge during the upward phase of the serve. I have a full racket drop and a continental grip which I learned from your videos, but I can't for the life of me figure out why I have a fully pronated wrist during the upwards phase. I would greatly appreciate any tips or hints🙌🙏
I didn't hear you say why pronation is actually useful. And I would say pronation in itself is not useful, it's a necessary consequence of the other thing, which IS useful: having the racket travel on edge in the swing path, because it travels much faster that way as it doesn't get air resistance from the blade. But because - of course - we don't hit the ball with the edge, we pronate before contact. So you don't pronate for the sake of it, but as a consequence of generating head speed and then contacting the ball. I'm sure you know this and probably said this but then I missed it. BTW your videos are all fantastic - just pointing out the single thing I noticed.
Great videos Nick. Question for you: My son (also named Nick) has a hard time "hitting on Edge" with his serve (he ALWAYS "waiters trays" it). I'm thinking about switching his grip to a more OPEN grip as it forces an "on edge" motion at the peak....I know the CONTINENTAL grip is the golden rule...so do you think this is a good idea?
" Intuitiv tennis " but all of you keep pushing the continental and even worse, this hammer grip on serv. It's not intuitiv at all for me... every coach tried to make me serv this way, pretending it was the best for the pronation. I tried it hours, days, weeks. Result? Elbow, no sensation, no control. It's not worth at all with my valgus! In fact, I have more speed on flat with the forehand grip than others. + the flexiblity comes with time too. If I remember, Troicki and some women serve with a forehand grip. Really, this would be great having a video from you about it. How many players are suffering from bad servs just because coachs pretend there's a single way to do.... never considering players physical specificites. I went 2nd serie in Europe (5.0 in US) with a forehand grip to serv, if I listen to coaches, I should not even be able to play against an amator... lol... or not able to slice/kick and some other BS. It's wrong. You can be a good server with a forehand and sometimes continental grip. You can even be a good server with two flat services you master. Thanks for your vid.
It's good to hear in clear words that a player is not aware of what his arm is doing during pronation whether he's a good server or not because the speed of the movement is just way too fast for conscious awareness of arm positions.
I keep saying the same thing about these videos 'fantastic'. This addresses the questions many recreational players have about pronation. Very simple and informative !
@@IntuitiveTennis I would like to have a doubt clarified please. I have a semi-abbreviated racket take back and it feels easy till the racket drop. I keep my palm facing down during the take back process and it helps me not to open my wrist. My doubt is, do I have to make changes in my wrist position after racket drop to ensure I lead with the racket edge till I open racket face just before contact. When I did some shadow swings now, IAM leading with the edge but racket face is still slightly open. Thanks in advance
Naga, these could be two separate issues. There shouldn’t be any wrist play on the racquet drop to ensure that the racquet can drop as low as possible. The racquet should drop with the tip of the racquet going at least to your lower back or even lower. As far as not being completely on edge, it depends where you are opening up. If you are opening very early on the drop, it’s an easy fix. If you are opening up right when the tip of the racquet is pointing towards the back fence this is a tougher fix. I would not worry about it too much. Make sure all the fundamentals are there. Practice a lot and check in slow mo periodically. Avoid shadow swings, because this problem occurs in the acceleration phase of the swing and if you are feeling the racquet opening up, you are swinging too slowly. Be patient and make this a long term goal.
Very good explanation. You said something i try to get my lessons to understand. You don't learn a serve...you develop it. Same with all strokes. It would be like going to a physio trainer and asking for a lesson on being strong. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Thanks for the explanation of pronation. I'm a 3.5 recreational player and I changed my serve grip to continental and developed a good racket drop. I thought my serve technique was good. I developed pretty good speed but lacked spin and control. I then I recorded myself and noticed that my racket opens up almost immediately after the racket drop. I've tried the last couple of weeks to pronate into contact but when the ball is in the air I revert to the old habit. Like you said, it's going to be very difficult to correct. Not sure if it's worth the time.
thx for debunking all the wrong clues that made my trainings much more confusing. (conscious) pronation on serve and try watching the ball (even on contact point) are really bad advice. but your tips and instructions are very clear, thx very much,
Best tennis coach on youtube! I thought the pronation that was important was after contact- thank you so much for explaining pronation and where it's important so well!!!
hello Nicola, Thank you very much for this video. Speaking of fundamentals, could you please make a one video of these in the near future ? I'm a beginner recreational player and am currently gathering these fundamentals and the drills associated with them to practice (multipe times a week as you recommend). Anyway, I'm binging all your videos they are very helpful already. Thank you.
David, thanks so much Yes I will definitely have beginner level videos for all the strokes uploaded in the second half of the year. It’s probably going to be a series. Stay tuned
is it common to have shoulder pain while learning the serve? I have been practicing at least a full hour of serving several times a week and starting to feel pain and discomfort in my shoulder
Thank you very much, Nick!! Pronation on the serve and wriste lag on the forehand are commonly faked/forced at the recreational level. Not long ago I used to fake it as well (fake pronation on the serve might actually be one of the reasons why I suffer from tennis elbow). Now I try to just let it happen naturally. Thanks again for the great content you provide us!
Thanks for these interesting insights! For me personally it is very difficult to flatten the if I do not focus the pronation after contact, because I get some sort of spin on the ball otherwise. Do you have any advice on how to fix that?
Great video bit I disagree that continued pronation does not matter in terms of racquet speed, it does matter, and all the best servers in the world have continued pronation. Why it does matter is because if you let the continued pronation happen the racquet swings through the ball at maximum speed, but if you do not let it happen and pronate only till contact it meant that you started forcefully slowing down your swing slightly before contact, because you can't stop pronating instantly, you have to start slowing down slightly before in order to stop the pronation right at contact.
Alen X, continued pronation is the result of pronation into the contact. And you can’t control continued pronation if you have a high level serve. It happens in a millisecond. Top servers are not doing this action consciously. Continuing pronation is indirectly related to racquet head speed. However, most recreational players do not pronate into the contact and then forcefully pronate after contact and that does not increase racquet head speed.
Intuitive Tennis I get what your saying and I agree pronation is natural result of proper mechanics, right swing, relaxed arm etc... and you don't force it. Im just saying that pronation AFTER contact is a result of the player letting it happen with a relaxed arm, and players who do not pronate AFTER contact subconciously don't let it happen by keeping the arm relaxed, but tighten up and try to almost muscle the racquet more through the ball (probably subconciously thinking they will get more directional control like that) , and it results in less racquet speed, less spin etc. WTA players are mostly (not all) in the majority when doing this, pronating till contact and then at contact swinging through and down into the serve without pronating further, while most ATP players specially the best ones like Federer, Isner, Raonic.. don't force the THROUGH part of the swing, but simply throw the racquet UP like throwing a ball into the air, and let the whole pronation happen naturally so they pronate throughout the whole swing, contact and even after contact. So basically the best servers let the pronation happen before, at contact and after contact by maintaining a loose and relaxed arm and throwing the racquet up into the sky, while servers who are not the best subconsciously (or by muscle memory from young age i dont know) tighten up at contact with the ball and muscle the racquet more through the contact point, resulting in no pronation after contact and the racquet swinging more down through the ball instead of more UP into the sky. Perhaps overrotation is also part of the reason for this not full after contact pronation, as most players that do not fully pronate overrotate on the serve, while the ones that do stay more sideways like this: See how rotated wozniacki is at contact and no pronation after contact th-cam.com/video/9DTba3F3qsc/w-d-xo.html Now look how sideways Federer is and how he pronates fully even after contact th-cam.com/video/tuNs8appEA0/w-d-xo.html& What are your thoughts on this?
Alen X, I checked those two clips. It looks to me like Woz hit a slice and Fed hit a kicker. Different mechanics on those serves. Woz pronates after contact on some serves, but she didn’t on that slice. Fed pronates after contact on all serves. It is true that some professional players will not continue to pronate on some serves. Including the all time ace leader th-cam.com/video/oPw1j3ydDiQ/w-d-xo.html
Intuitive Tennis Thats what I find quite interesting, that some players like Federer pronate fully after contact on all serves, while other players like Murray don't pronate fully I think on any of their serves. Here is a very interesting article I found on this matter, if you are interested in it, and would love to hear your feedback on it if you do read it. www.tennisplayer.net/public/tour_strokes/john_yandell/murray_serve/
Manju, the Sampras serve goes into an immediate bend of the forearm after contact creating additional downforce on the ball. Fake pronation is something you see at the rec level. The player will forcibly pronate the forearm after contact and to achieve this, the Serve has to be slowed down drastically and abruptly stopped. You can see this at your local club if you look carefully. th-cam.com/video/bnSf8XjTMuU/w-d-xo.html check out my flat serve video where I cover the Sampras finish in detail.
What is the best way to naturally progress through the fundamentals of the serve? I never formally learned how to serve, and am now trying to build it from scratch. I have the grip and I watched your video on the toss. What would you recommend I work on next? Thank you for all these great videos!
So I guess most recreational players never serve with proper pronation. Surely if you slow the whole service motion, you should be able to come at the ball on edge and consciously pronate. And repeat this many times for muscle memory.
I have to disagree with most of the other comments: I find this video not helpful, discouraging and even misleading. The statement, that you can't practice pronation, it happens intuitively and it will take years to correct a service motion, where the racket head opens up too early - this is all very shadowy, incompehensible and, yes, just not helpful. Of course you can practice pronation! Instead of saying, that what is happening at the point of contact is just a natural consequence of all the movements I do before, I would in contrast start at the point of contact and regard then the movements before as natural consequences from there. Otherways you are putting the cart before the horse. Here is an approach of teaching the serve, that I find much more helpful: th-cam.com/video/9wJNX1IA4hQ/w-d-xo.html Oscar Wegner empasizes a slow approach to the ball, the power comes from the acceleration across the ball using the strong triceps instead of following through in the direction of the ball. In this context the pronation is not just something happening somehow, but something that can create massive power by an intended movement. This gives you tons of speed, power and control AND this is something you can practice.
Totally agree Nik, but one question comes to mind: when you are demonstrating the non-pronation and full-pronation serves in your other video, what were the differences in the swing-thought you used? Or did you just pick clips that came out right? Thanks.
In general I like your explanations. However there is some inconsistency in the advice you give for beginners in other videos (avoid the WT serve, swing path always on edge) and some of the comments you make here - such that pronation can only be achieved after years of hard work ... wouldn't this kind of imply that beginners must serve hitting the ball with the edge of the racket for years on end ? Since WT is a no no and pronation at contact is an almost superhuman achievement ...
@@IntuitiveTennis Well, it has something to do in that it definitely will prevent pronation. But I see what you mean - that you can still have all the elements of a pretty good serve (including of course a solid drop) but still open the racquet head too early before contact. That would not be a WT serve, it might even be a pretty acceptable serve at that, but it will still not be top notch.
Nick, you said ..... " Advanced rec players will often have a correct racquet drop and in the acceleration phase on the approach towards the ball, these players will open the racquet face too early and therefore not pronate. This is a difficult thing to correct since it’s occurring without the player being aware of it. Juniors have a good chance to correct this with very deliberate practice. Some adults can correct this over time, but I have seen many who can not." ...... I am an adult, could you please make a video to help the thousands of us who have not been able to correct the opening of the racquet face too early ??
Daniel, there is no quick fix to this problem, because the problem occurs without the player being aware of it. To correct this technical flaw, one must make a commitment to learn the fundamentals of the serve and only through countless repetitions a player stands a chance to serve at a higher level with real pronation. This must be long term goal. In other words, a bucket of balls 3,4 times a week for a year and let’s see what happens.
Daniel, the serve is not a throwing motion. There are different biomechanics between striking an object and throwing an object. The exercises performed in this video have biomechanical flaws and do not accurately mimic what actually happens on a real serve. I will cover these topics in the near future. Stay tuned the next 6 weeks. All Serve videos.
Kit, continuing pronation is a intuitive process and the player should not be aware that it is taking place. If you forcefully continue to pronate this will only result in a decrease in racquet head speed. There are differences when continuing pronation takes place and varies from player to player and serve choice, furthermore there are players at the elite level who do not continue to pronate.
Hi Nik, when you are in the trophy position. Is the hit side of your racket open to the side or to the the sky? (Hitting area shoes to the sky means that you could place something on the racket in this position without falling down)
What is the role of supination in the serve? I find that when I supinate fully I tend to forget about the racquet drop behind my back. This can be resolved if I hold the racquet very loosely so that the butt of the racquet is pretty much off the heel of my hand. Does this make sense?
As always great video. I have a question if you don't mind Nik. Why do pro players strive to maintain tossing hand in front of body during acceleration phase?
Just had my third serving lesson today and while I think I understand most of the mechanics the pronation/snap of the wrist was still illusive to me. This video cleared that portion up for me. Thank you.
You have said in your serve videos that a player that has developed a serve with the pronation happening to early will have a very hard time correcting it and it will take years to do it. I take lessons weekly and practice often. Is there any drill or anything I can do to get out of the waiter serve position. I tape my serve and see exactly what you show regarding pronation to early
Chuck, these are two separate issues. The waiter tray is a situation where the racquet doesn’t drop low enough and the racquet face immediately opens up. This is common among intermediate rec player and it’s very fixable. Advanced rec players will often have a correct racquet drop and in the acceleration phase on the approach towards the ball, these players will open the racquet face too early and therefore not pronate. This is a difficult thing to correct since it’s occurring without the player being aware of it. Juniors have a good chance to correct this with very deliberate practice. Some adults can correct this over time, but I have seen many who can not.
@@IntuitiveTennis how would you suggest leading on edge better? I know it’s very hard, but I am determined because I have hit serves with proper leading on edge, but I also hit a lot with early pronation so it’s still a problem.
It seems to me that this is a similar concept to creating lag in a golf swing, where the wrists break closer to ball contact, promoting acceleration, power, and proper head path.
Learn The Croatian Serve 🇭🇷 (FREE COURSE)
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One of the few tennis teacher who speaks with clear facts and honesty.
Thank you for uploading your videos.
Like your videos mate, ive watched all the top channels, wont mention any in particular, but i found myself walking away with questions, your vids are exhaustive and yet so simple to understand, keep up the great work...
Farai, I appreciate it and I’ll keep going 💪
Hi Nick. I love your content. Your videos got me playing tennis with no prior experience about a year and a half ago. You have the most comprehensive and detailed videos on every stroke and I appreciate you providing these resources for free 🙏
I keep coming back to the same videos as I progress my skills and understand more and more from the same videos. I have the issue you mentioned in the video. I don't raise my racket on edge during the upward phase of the serve. I have a full racket drop and a continental grip which I learned from your videos, but I can't for the life of me figure out why I have a fully pronated wrist during the upwards phase. I would greatly appreciate any tips or hints🙌🙏
I didn't hear you say why pronation is actually useful. And I would say pronation in itself is not useful, it's a necessary consequence of the other thing, which IS useful: having the racket travel on edge in the swing path, because it travels much faster that way as it doesn't get air resistance from the blade. But because - of course - we don't hit the ball with the edge, we pronate before contact. So you don't pronate for the sake of it, but as a consequence of generating head speed and then contacting the ball.
I'm sure you know this and probably said this but then I missed it.
BTW your videos are all fantastic - just pointing out the single thing I noticed.
Thank you Dieter
I explain it in depth here
th-cam.com/video/MyCjfoKddaA/w-d-xo.html
That was awesome.
Great videos Nick. Question for you: My son (also named Nick) has a hard time "hitting on Edge" with his serve (he ALWAYS "waiters trays" it). I'm thinking about switching his grip to a more OPEN grip as it forces an "on edge" motion at the peak....I know the CONTINENTAL grip is the golden rule...so do you think this is a good idea?
" Intuitiv tennis " but all of you keep pushing the continental and even worse, this hammer grip on serv. It's not intuitiv at all for me... every coach tried to make me serv this way, pretending it was the best for the pronation. I tried it hours, days, weeks. Result? Elbow, no sensation, no control. It's not worth at all with my valgus! In fact, I have more speed on flat with the forehand grip than others. + the flexiblity comes with time too. If I remember, Troicki and some women serve with a forehand grip. Really, this would be great having a video from you about it. How many players are suffering from bad servs just because coachs pretend there's a single way to do.... never considering players physical specificites. I went 2nd serie in Europe (5.0 in US) with a forehand grip to serv, if I listen to coaches, I should not even be able to play against an amator... lol... or not able to slice/kick and some other BS. It's wrong. You can be a good server with a forehand and sometimes continental grip. You can even be a good server with two flat services you master. Thanks for your vid.
It's good to hear in clear words that a player is not aware of what his arm is doing during pronation whether he's a good server or not because the speed of the movement is just way too fast for conscious awareness of arm positions.
Muyu, 100% correct
I keep saying the same thing about these videos 'fantastic'. This addresses the questions many recreational players have about pronation. Very simple and informative !
Naga, thanks man. I appreciate it!
@@IntuitiveTennis I would like to have a doubt clarified please. I have a semi-abbreviated racket take back and it feels easy till the racket drop. I keep my palm facing down during the take back process and it helps me not to open my wrist. My doubt is, do I have to make changes in my wrist position after racket drop to ensure I lead with the racket edge till I open racket face just before contact. When I did some shadow swings now, IAM leading with the edge but racket face is still slightly open. Thanks in advance
Naga, these could be two separate issues. There shouldn’t be any wrist play on the racquet drop to ensure that the racquet can drop as low as possible. The racquet should drop with the tip of the racquet going at least to your lower back or even lower.
As far as not being completely on edge, it depends where you are opening up. If you are opening very early on the drop, it’s an easy fix. If you are opening up right when the tip of the racquet is pointing towards the back fence this is a tougher fix. I would not worry about it too much. Make sure all the fundamentals are there. Practice a lot and check in slow mo periodically. Avoid shadow swings, because this problem occurs in the acceleration phase of the swing and if you are feeling the racquet opening up, you are swinging too slowly. Be patient and make this a long term goal.
@@IntuitiveTennis Thank you very much !
Very good explanation. You said something i try to get my lessons to understand. You don't learn a serve...you develop it. Same with all strokes. It would be like going to a physio trainer and asking for a lesson on being strong. Anyway, keep up the good work.
g10s, thank you. Yes I agree 100%. There are no tricks or secrets just hard work or as you say development.
👍
Thanks for the explanation of pronation. I'm a 3.5 recreational player and I changed my serve grip to continental and developed a good racket drop. I thought my serve technique was good. I developed pretty good speed but lacked spin and control. I then I recorded myself and noticed that my racket opens up almost immediately after the racket drop. I've tried the last couple of weeks to pronate into contact but when the ball is in the air I revert to the old habit. Like you said, it's going to be very difficult to correct. Not sure if it's worth the time.
thx for debunking all the wrong clues that made my trainings much more confusing. (conscious) pronation on serve and try watching the ball (even on contact point) are really bad advice. but your tips and instructions are very clear, thx very much,
Thank you Tim 🙏🙏
If his shoulders don't rotate in his demo, i don't see how his demo can be accurate
thank you Nikola, this was comforting.
My pleasure Trishanth
Best tennis coach on youtube! I thought the pronation that was important was after contact- thank you so much for explaining pronation and where it's important so well!!!
Thank you Debby
👌👌👍👍
Thank you Dr
🙏🙏
Very revealing observations Nik, great tutorial.
ripleygordon, Thanks 🙏
You're a great teacher
hello Nicola, Thank you very much for this video. Speaking of fundamentals, could you please make a one video of these in the near future ? I'm a beginner recreational player and am currently gathering these fundamentals and the drills associated with them to practice (multipe times a week as you recommend). Anyway, I'm binging all your videos they are very helpful already. Thank you.
David, thanks so much
Yes I will definitely have beginner level videos for all the strokes uploaded in the second half of the year. It’s probably going to be a series.
Stay tuned
@@IntuitiveTennis Yeah ! Thanks a lot. In the meantime, my basket of balls is my best friend
Excellent !
great video!
Santiago, thank you
Many thanks for clear instructions !!
Krishna, my pleasure 🙏
I watched your fake pronation and I couldn't understand the difference. I saw it like a good serve.
early pronation is currently my biggest weakness playing against 4.0+ players
is it common to have shoulder pain while learning the serve? I have been practicing at least a full hour of serving several times a week and starting to feel pain and discomfort in my shoulder
Thank you very much, Nick!! Pronation on the serve and wriste lag on the forehand are commonly faked/forced at the recreational level. Not long ago I used to fake it as well (fake pronation on the serve might actually be one of the reasons why I suffer from tennis elbow). Now I try to just let it happen naturally.
Thanks again for the great content you provide us!
🙌🙌🙏🙏
Thanks for these interesting insights! For me personally it is very difficult to flatten the if I do not focus the pronation after contact, because I get some sort of spin on the ball otherwise. Do you have any advice on how to fix that?
Hi. Thanks for the video. What about the way Sampras and Becker served? They seemed to finish with a bent arm
Charles, I discuss the Sampras serve here:
th-cam.com/video/bnSf8XjTMuU/w-d-xo.html
Great coach!
Ronnie, 🙏
Great video bit I disagree that continued pronation does not matter in terms of racquet speed, it does matter, and all the best servers in the world have continued pronation.
Why it does matter is because if you let the continued pronation happen the racquet swings through the ball at maximum speed, but if you do not let it happen and pronate only till contact it meant that you started forcefully slowing down your swing slightly before contact, because you can't stop pronating instantly, you have to start slowing down slightly before in order to stop the pronation right at contact.
Alen X, continued pronation is the result of pronation into the contact. And you can’t control continued pronation if you have a high level serve. It happens in a millisecond. Top servers are not doing this action consciously. Continuing pronation is indirectly related to racquet head speed.
However, most recreational players do not pronate into the contact and then forcefully pronate after contact and that does not increase racquet head speed.
Intuitive Tennis I get what your saying and I agree pronation is natural result of proper mechanics, right swing, relaxed arm etc... and you don't force it.
Im just saying that pronation AFTER contact is a result of the player letting it happen with a relaxed arm, and players who do not pronate AFTER contact subconciously don't let it happen by keeping the arm relaxed, but tighten up and try to almost muscle the racquet more through the ball (probably subconciously thinking they will get more directional control like that) , and it results in less racquet speed, less spin etc.
WTA players are mostly (not all) in the majority when doing this, pronating till contact and then at contact swinging through and down into the serve without pronating further, while most ATP players specially the best ones like Federer, Isner, Raonic.. don't force the THROUGH part of the swing, but simply throw the racquet UP like throwing a ball into the air, and let the whole pronation happen naturally so they pronate throughout the whole swing, contact and even after contact.
So basically the best servers let the pronation happen before, at contact and after contact by maintaining a loose and relaxed arm and throwing the racquet up into the sky, while servers who are not the best subconsciously (or by muscle memory from young age i dont know) tighten up at contact with the ball and muscle the racquet more through the contact point, resulting in no pronation after contact and the racquet swinging more down through the ball instead of more UP into the sky.
Perhaps overrotation is also part of the reason for this not full after contact pronation, as most players that do not fully pronate overrotate on the serve, while the ones that do stay more sideways like this:
See how rotated wozniacki is at contact and no pronation after contact
th-cam.com/video/9DTba3F3qsc/w-d-xo.html
Now look how sideways Federer is and how he pronates fully even after contact
th-cam.com/video/tuNs8appEA0/w-d-xo.html&
What are your thoughts on this?
Alen X, I checked those two clips. It looks to me like Woz hit a slice and Fed hit a kicker. Different mechanics on those serves. Woz pronates after contact on some serves, but she didn’t on that slice. Fed pronates after contact on all serves. It is true that some professional players will not continue to pronate on some serves. Including the all time ace leader th-cam.com/video/oPw1j3ydDiQ/w-d-xo.html
Intuitive Tennis Thats what I find quite interesting, that some players like Federer pronate fully after contact on all serves, while other players like Murray don't pronate fully I think on any of their serves.
Here is a very interesting article I found on this matter, if you are interested in it, and would love to hear your feedback on it if you do read it.
www.tennisplayer.net/public/tour_strokes/john_yandell/murray_serve/
love your channel!! Really hope you are in london!!
Sir, your fake pronation action is similar to Sampras Serve? I could be wrong since it resembles a lot with Sampras Serve
Manju, the Sampras serve goes into an immediate bend of the forearm after contact creating additional downforce on the ball.
Fake pronation is something you see at the rec level. The player will forcibly pronate the forearm after contact and to achieve this, the Serve has to be slowed down drastically and abruptly stopped. You can see this at your local club if you look carefully.
th-cam.com/video/bnSf8XjTMuU/w-d-xo.html check out my flat serve video where I cover the Sampras finish in detail.
What is the best way to naturally progress through the fundamentals of the serve? I never formally learned how to serve, and am now trying to build it from scratch. I have the grip and I watched your video on the toss. What would you recommend I work on next? Thank you for all these great videos!
th-cam.com/video/6Gz4GZvmkgY/w-d-xo.html
What is called pronation after contact is a lot internal shoulder rotation.
So I guess most recreational players never serve with proper pronation. Surely if you slow the whole service motion, you should be able to come at the ball on edge and consciously pronate. And repeat this many times for muscle memory.
I have to disagree with most of the other comments: I find this video not helpful, discouraging and even misleading. The statement, that you can't practice pronation, it happens intuitively and it will take years to correct a service motion, where the racket head opens up too early - this is all very shadowy, incompehensible and, yes, just not helpful. Of course you can practice pronation! Instead of saying, that what is happening at the point of contact is just a natural consequence of all the movements I do before, I would in contrast start at the point of contact and regard then the movements before as natural consequences from there. Otherways you are putting the cart before the horse. Here is an approach of teaching the serve, that I find much more helpful:
th-cam.com/video/9wJNX1IA4hQ/w-d-xo.html
Oscar Wegner empasizes a slow approach to the ball, the power comes from the acceleration across the ball using the strong triceps instead of following through in the direction of the ball. In this context the pronation is not just something happening somehow, but something that can create massive power by an intended movement. This gives you tons of speed, power and control AND this is something you can practice.
Totally agree Nik, but one question comes to mind: when you are demonstrating the non-pronation and full-pronation serves in your other video, what were the differences in the swing-thought you used? Or did you just pick clips that came out right? Thanks.
nice video ever, could you let me know about 'how to acceleration of racket speed'???
The,
I get into here around the 14 min mark
th-cam.com/video/rSPc480H9uo/w-d-xo.html
I will cover it in the future for sure.
Stay tuned
In general I like your explanations. However there is some inconsistency in the advice you give for beginners in other videos (avoid the WT serve, swing path always on edge) and some of the comments you make here - such that pronation can only be achieved after years of hard work ... wouldn't this kind of imply that beginners must serve hitting the ball with the edge of the racket for years on end ? Since WT is a no no and pronation at contact is an almost superhuman achievement ...
Waiter Tray is a serve w insufficient or non existent racquet drop. Has nothing to do with pronation
@@IntuitiveTennis Well, it has something to do in that it definitely will prevent pronation. But I see what you mean - that you can still have all the elements of a pretty good serve (including of course a solid drop) but still open the racquet head too early before contact. That would not be a WT serve, it might even be a pretty acceptable serve at that, but it will still not be top notch.
Nick, you said ..... " Advanced rec players will often have a correct racquet drop and in the acceleration phase on the approach towards the ball, these players will open the racquet face too early and therefore not pronate. This is a difficult thing to correct since it’s occurring without the player being aware of it. Juniors have a good chance to correct this with very deliberate practice. Some adults can correct this over time, but I have seen many who can not." ...... I am an adult, could you please make a video to help the thousands of us who have not been able to correct the opening of the racquet face too early ??
Daniel, there is no quick fix to this problem, because the problem occurs without the player being aware of it. To correct this technical flaw, one must make a commitment to learn the fundamentals of the serve and only through countless repetitions a player stands a chance to serve at a higher level with real pronation. This must be long term goal. In other words, a bucket of balls 3,4 times a week for a year and let’s see what happens.
Thank you Nick so much ! I will give it a huge try .@@IntuitiveTennis
@@IntuitiveTennis , Nick please take a look at this link and give me your opinion : th-cam.com/video/cKeSQHjm4gM/w-d-xo.html
Daniel, the serve is not a throwing motion. There are different biomechanics between striking an object and throwing an object. The exercises performed in this video have biomechanical flaws and do not accurately mimic what actually happens on a real serve. I will cover these topics in the near future. Stay tuned the next 6 weeks. All Serve videos.
Daniel, btw your comment was flagged by TH-cam that’s why I’m responding so late. Just saw it today
PRONATE BEFORE contact for flat serve, but pronate after contact for kick serve , do u agree, coach ?
Kit, continuing pronation is a intuitive process and the player should not be aware that it is taking place. If you forcefully continue to pronate this will only result in a decrease in racquet head speed.
There are differences when continuing pronation takes place and varies from player to player and serve choice, furthermore there are players at the elite level who do not continue to pronate.
Hi Nik, when you are in the trophy position. Is the hit side of your racket open to the side or to the the sky? (Hitting area shoes to the sky means that you could place something on the racket in this position without falling down)
Hitting side of the body
What is the role of supination in the serve? I find that when I supinate fully I tend to forget about the racquet drop behind my back. This can be resolved if I hold the racquet very loosely so that the butt of the racquet is pretty much off the heel of my hand. Does this make sense?
David, I’m not a big fan of supination on the racquet drop and I don’t know any pro’s that do it. However, if it works for you than that’s great.
As always great video. I have a question if you don't mind Nik. Why do pro players strive to maintain tossing hand in front of body during acceleration phase?
It’s the tuck 👉 th-cam.com/video/g65JysBvGoE/w-d-xo.html
@@IntuitiveTennis Many thanks
If your toss is too close to the baseline then a correct pronation is impossible ?
Alfetta, no correlation between that sorry. Federer tosses just a tad inside the baseline or less.
This is very important for my to know (i am bussy to improve my service almost on a daily basis for three years now)
Just had my third serving lesson today and while I think I understand most of the mechanics the pronation/snap of the wrist was still illusive to me. This video cleared that portion up for me. Thank you.
You have said in your serve videos that a player that has developed a serve with the pronation happening to early will have a very hard time correcting it and it will take years to do it. I take lessons weekly and practice often. Is there any drill or anything I can do to get out of the waiter serve position. I tape my serve and see exactly what you show regarding pronation to early
Chuck, these are two separate issues.
The waiter tray is a situation where the racquet doesn’t drop low enough and the racquet face immediately opens up. This is common among intermediate rec player and it’s very fixable.
Advanced rec players will often have a correct racquet drop and in the acceleration phase on the approach towards the ball, these players will open the racquet face too early and therefore not pronate. This is a difficult thing to correct since it’s occurring without the player being aware of it. Juniors have a good chance to correct this with very deliberate practice. Some adults can correct this over time, but I have seen many who can not.
@@IntuitiveTennis how would you suggest leading on edge better? I know it’s very hard, but I am determined because I have hit serves with proper leading on edge, but I also hit a lot with early pronation so it’s still a problem.
It seems to me that this is a similar concept to creating lag in a golf swing, where the wrists break closer to ball contact, promoting acceleration, power, and proper head path.