i came to the conclusion that this is the best channel to learn and improve as coach or player. I have been missing out. Her and Pat Mouratoglou are amazing coaches.
Out of all the coaches I've watched here, you're usually the one who explains things in the most easy-to-understand ways to recreational players like me. And that's incredibly helpful, because recreational players don't have the experience, or the innate talent of professional players to grasp complex things quickly.
Great lesson and breakdown of technique. I like to emphasize that the serve is the only shot that you are allowed to place the ball where you want to hit it. It’s really a placement with a plan. Once you develop the skills to hit various types of serves ( flat, slice, Kick) it’s extremely important to develop the skills to move the placement and hit different zones in the service box. This is where and when the slice is nice. Don’t forget to direct the service into the body. Lots of players love to move to the side but hate to get out of the way when the ball curves into their body. I learned a lot about spin and placement from baseball. Pitchers try to move the ball around the strike zone and make the batter miss by throwing different types of pitches. The strategy is similar in tennis. Flat, slice, kick, out wide, into the body or up,the T and remember to know the score so you can play percentages. Remember what your opponent doesn’t like and use it to your advantage.
This is a master class. I have seen so many videos and nothing has worked. I will try that tomorrow. Question, how come Federer can pull it out by having his foot parallel to the end line?
Thanks for a very clear explanation of the different approach for flat v spin. Could you explain the correct alignment of arm and racquet at contact? Watching club players they seem to have the racquet almost as a vertical extension of the line of their arm. Watching the best servers it appears their racquet is at 90 degrees to their hitting arm, arm at 1 o’clock, racquet head over their head, which appears to make it easier to pronate. They also appear to have some left side bend at contact. You always explain things so well, I would be interested to see your explanation of these apparent differences.
I'll put it on my video to do list. When the arm is completely vertical in line right above the shoulder, that is not a good thing. We call it the Lady Liberty position and it can lead to injuries
I often bounce the ball with racket (in pronating style) to feel the pronation, and if the racket face is a little less flat at the contact point, the ball will spin and won't bounce up perpendicularly, corresponding to a slice serve.
Great question. Two ways to do it: you can, of course, pronate even less and that gives you the wider serve. Or change the angle of your upswing ever so slightly. In either case, wherever the racket points when you make contact is where the ball goes. And again, we're talking a few degrees. That's why it's impossible to read the pros, they're so good at keeping everything the same and a few degrees make the difference bt flat and slice or serve location.
I personally change my grip slightly depending where I want the serve to go. I also supinate more as opposed to pronating less. Easier for me to time and execute.
hi meike, thank you very much for this brillant video! one question though: i am wondering about the follow through of flat and slice serve. in the very and of the motion of the slice serve, is it the same as on a flat serve? or more like at a topspin serve with the elbow up? (hard to explain, all the best from germany 😅
hi Meike, is it possible to control the point of contact of the head of the racket with the ball by the rotation of the trunk? i mean: less rotation toward the court for the kick, and more for the flat, with the same arm pronation. your lessons are great, thank you.
@@MeikeBabelTennis I just find it easier to control the angle of the head of my racket by the rotation of my shoulders than by the pronation of my arm (that if always pronated when i hit the ball). do you think there may be issues with this "tecnique"? thanks.
Great explanation and surprised to learn that there’s only a few degrees difference between the two but it makes sense. I have two questions: 1: is continuing pronation after contact important? My racket face often ended up pointing down as opposed to pointing to side fence after contact. My pronation stops at contact basically. 2: knowing only a few degrees difference, how should we control the racket face angle, especially things happens really fast leading up to contact? Any tips you can give us? Thanks 🙏
It just could be that you're not having enough mobility either in your shoulder joint or thoracic spine if you're not getting the full long-axis rotation (internal shoulder rotation plus forearm pronation). After my shoulder surgeries that was gone for me as well bc my range of motion was gone. It's extremely difficult to control consciously what you're doing once you've made contact. So my tip is to really put in the repetitions going from very simple to more complex and really slow to faster. Thousands of reps. If you're having the fundamentals like grip, stance, and toss correct then the rest has a better chance being correct as well and then often times it's physical limitations like mobility, flexibility, strength etc.
I have a question...instead of pronating less for the slice serve, wouldn't a slight grip change (and the same amount of pronation as for a flat serve) produce the same effect?
Great breakdown! How do you explain hitting a slice serve with more side spin than flat which provides more angle? I accidentally hit slices when I throw the ball at the 11am position and it feels like a half slice half top spin
I'm imagining that you're having to really lean to still make contact and that's the only way you can do it. I would suggest to really work on going up to the line with a certain serve in mind, let's say hit a flat serve. If you then toss the ball wrong, start over. Easier said than done, especially when that happens a few times and your opponent starts getting annoyed. But there are no rules that you have to hit a certain toss.
For a sidespin serve, you should use a one-handed backhand grip and hit closer to a 9 to 3 o'clock angle. Keep your tossing hand up as long as possible, keep your head up watching the ball, and stay sideways (don't turn to watch the flight of the ball too early or else you will miss to the left).
No, I don't try to force anything. More to the contrary, I try to be as relaxed as possible and if you have the right preparation you get into these positions unless there are physical limitations. We all have different mobility, flexibility, strength, levers etc. For instance, after my shoulder surgeries I have limited flexibility and range of motion so that I'm actually turning open way sooner than I used to. But for my purposes these days in teaching it's not limiting, it was at the end of my career
Great lesson, thank you. I’m going to work on this. A proper serve is such a complex process. I’m struggling with my racquet drop and coming up on edge. My toss needs to improve as well, it’s all over the place.
Thanks a lot.. its been a great explanation .. I was stuck with slice serve couldnt figure out why i coulddnt hit flat anymore.. and all the time i thought i am pronating early and trying to delay it.. what a fool
I try think you have mistaken the flat serve is not easier in terms of getting your serve in its very hard which is why you second serve is a slice serve. Because the first serve is call first Now the difficulty in first serve is why they call flat serve
Overall good explanations, however, racquet face angle determines the direction and not the spin. Amount of spin is determined by the level of pronation, the less, the more spin. Ergo, you can slice to T on deuce side, not just wide. I might have misunderstood the "racquet face tilt" part, if that's the case, my apologies.
Good catch! We're both in agreement, I should have made that clearer! I was actually going to go into placement in the same video but then decided against it bc I didn't want to make it too long. I will make another video where I make that distinction you're pointing out clear. Thank you for making me aware of this potential point of confusion!
Ah wow, this is amazing! I have been looking for a way to cure my waiters tray serve, and you have shown me the answer! I have previous injuries to my shoulder but your progressions will allow me to gently get the technique and feel that I can build upon to eventually get acceleration and power. Thank you!
Great lesson. Rehabing my dominant arm due to slight injury stretching for a forehand. I can hit ground strokes and volleys without issues. For serves, would the slice serve be less impact on the arm and better to work on as I go through my rehabilitation? Thank you in advance for your comment.
I think that's more a question for your doc or PT. I'd say the strain/ impact is the same for flat and slice because you're really only tilting the racket face a few degrees so no major difference.
Great video Meike - pronation drills w the hand only are great. Question - on the slice are you not pronating as much (as the flat), or just pronating a tad later?
The volleyball analogy was gold, isolating the hand movement for better comprehension. I've been playing for decades, and have never noticed that equivalent movement. And I understand pronation. And even though I know how to slice, that detail of "pronate less", was a perfect way of teaching a beginner, and I'm going to put it in play the next time I hit the court. Again, excellent instructional video.
Wow, thank you! That is great to hear. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm making it too simplistic but I always remember how I was taught my technique and all my coaches kept it simple and let me experience it with these types of "feel" drills .
Watch "Modernize Your Serve": th-cam.com/video/_6vkQ9Cmj0g/w-d-xo.html
I just saw it was that for slice serve or flat because you mention shoulder over shoulder keeping to your side.
It’s not actually the “right hand alley.” Just the right alley. Hands don’t matter
i came to the conclusion that this is the best channel to learn and improve as coach or player. I have been missing out. Her and Pat Mouratoglou are amazing coaches.
Thank you for you very kind words!!!
Out of all the coaches I've watched here, you're usually the one who explains things in the most easy-to-understand ways to recreational players like me. And that's incredibly helpful, because recreational players don't have the experience, or the innate talent of professional players to grasp complex things quickly.
Thank you so much for that feedback! That's what I;m striving to do and I'm glad it resonates!
"Rotate the thumb" is a great tip!
This video clip is the best that I have ever seen about the two different serve for recreational players... Thank you !!!!
Thank you!
Great lesson and breakdown of technique. I like to emphasize that the serve is the only shot that you are allowed to place the ball where you want to hit it. It’s really a placement with a plan. Once you develop the skills to hit various types of serves ( flat, slice, Kick) it’s extremely important to develop the skills to move the placement and hit different zones in the service box. This is where and when the slice is nice. Don’t forget to direct the service into the body. Lots of players love to move to the side but hate to get out of the way when the ball curves into their body. I learned a lot about spin and placement from baseball. Pitchers try to move the ball around the strike zone and make the batter miss by throwing different types of pitches. The strategy is similar in tennis. Flat, slice, kick, out wide, into the body or up,the T and remember to know the score so you can play percentages. Remember what your opponent doesn’t like and use it to your advantage.
Absolutely! And the serve is the only shot where we don't need a partner (ball wall, ball machine, coach) so you could get tons of practice.
Pronating less for slice totally makes sense, never understood how anyone could swing full speed and 'carve' at the same time. Thanks a lot Meike :)
Glad it was helpful!
My biggest issue is foot work and the jump step needed to meet the ball at impact. FYI I’m a senior trying to improve. Love the videos.
Really good instruction, I now understand pronation and flat serve vrs slice.
Awesome! Glad I could help!
Congratulations on making great tennis videos, always very clear, to the point and I find them very beneficial, thank you.
you are amazing ! I play friendly , but highly competitive, matches on the weekends , and I watch your videos to fine tune my game. Thank you !
That is awesome to hear!
Great tutorial. Best explanation I have seen on TH-cam. Thanks.
Thank you! Feel free to subscribe and recommend my channel to your tennis friends
Using junior balls very smart, as well as using only hand at beginning. Great video presentation Meike!!
Thank you! I didn't have the red balls when I was little but just using the hand helped me learn a lot!
Beautiful helpful lesson coach, thanks so much
The best on line coach!
Love this. Terrific instruction. Wish I lived in the Denver area. Thank you!
You are so welcome! Well, you gotta just keep watching my videos then ;-)
Thank you for the video. It really helps😊🙏
Thank you!
I will try to practice it.
Great! Let me know how it goes!
This has helped me immensely
Glad to hear that!
Thank you Coach
Thank you. Already taken though :-)
This is a master class. I have seen so many videos and nothing has worked. I will try that tomorrow. Question, how come Federer can pull it out by having his foot parallel to the end line?
He’s a genius. He does stuff that normal humans can’t do
now it makes so much more sense!!!
Glad you liked it!
Vielen Dank! Perfectly well explained, very helpful 👍
Sehr gerne
Great explanation!
Thank you Meike!
My pleasure! Feel free to recommend my channel to your tennis friends.
I rate that racquet and that pimpin jacket! Cool drills at the end.
Always stylin' I think they say :-)
Thanks!
Thank you for your support, I really appreciate it
Thanks for a very clear explanation of the different approach for flat v spin. Could you explain the correct alignment of arm and racquet at contact? Watching club players they seem to have the racquet almost as a vertical extension of the line of their arm. Watching the best servers it appears their racquet is at 90 degrees to their hitting arm, arm at 1 o’clock, racquet head over their head, which appears to make it easier to pronate. They also appear to have some left side bend at contact. You always explain things so well, I would be interested to see your explanation of these apparent differences.
I'll put it on my video to do list. When the arm is completely vertical in line right above the shoulder, that is not a good thing. We call it the Lady Liberty position and it can lead to injuries
@@MeikeBabelTennis many thanks, will look forward to your explanation.
I often bounce the ball with racket (in pronating style) to feel the pronation, and if the racket face is a little less flat at the contact point, the ball will spin and won't bounce up perpendicularly, corresponding to a slice serve.
Yes! That is another great way to feel it. Or use it to feel the slice if you do that on purpose.
You have a great toss movement , really something./
One more question: how do you control the direction to serve down the T vs serve wide? What adjustments should we make? Thanks
Great question. Two ways to do it: you can, of course, pronate even less and that gives you the wider serve. Or change the angle of your upswing ever so slightly. In either case, wherever the racket points when you make contact is where the ball goes. And again, we're talking a few degrees. That's why it's impossible to read the pros, they're so good at keeping everything the same and a few degrees make the difference bt flat and slice or serve location.
I personally change my grip slightly depending where I want the serve to go. I also supinate more as opposed to pronating less. Easier for me to time and execute.
you're amazing!
Thank you!
hi meike, thank you very much for this brillant video! one question though: i am wondering about the follow through of flat and slice serve. in the very and of the motion of the slice serve, is it the same as on a flat serve? or more like at a topspin serve with the elbow up? (hard to explain, all the best from germany 😅
I don’t understand 12:30. I can visualize the toss at 10,11,12,1,2… 12:30? Is that straight up like 12:00? Love these Meike
Thanks Coach. Slice is what am working on to get better at 4.0. So this is great. Also are those Kirshbaum strings by any chance?
No, they are the Yonex Polytour Pro. I'm playing with the Yonex Rexis Comfort in my own racket, this was a demo of the new ezone
hi Meike, is it possible to control the point of contact of the head of
the racket with the ball by the rotation of the trunk? i mean: less rotation toward
the court for the kick, and more for the flat, with the same arm
pronation. your lessons are great, thank you.
I would assume you can given you have that physical ability. Question then is does it produce a better result? Or is it easier with same result?
@@MeikeBabelTennis I just find it easier to control the angle of the head of my racket by the rotation of my shoulders than by the pronation of my arm (that if always pronated when i hit the ball). do you think there may be issues with this "tecnique"? thanks.
Great explanation and surprised to learn that there’s only a few degrees difference between the two but it makes sense. I have two questions: 1: is continuing pronation after contact important? My racket face often ended up pointing down as opposed to pointing to side fence after contact. My pronation stops at contact basically. 2: knowing only a few degrees difference, how should we control the racket face angle, especially things happens really fast leading up to contact? Any tips you can give us? Thanks 🙏
It just could be that you're not having enough mobility either in your shoulder joint or thoracic spine if you're not getting the full long-axis rotation (internal shoulder rotation plus forearm pronation). After my shoulder surgeries that was gone for me as well bc my range of motion was gone.
It's extremely difficult to control consciously what you're doing once you've made contact. So my tip is to really put in the repetitions going from very simple to more complex and really slow to faster. Thousands of reps. If you're having the fundamentals like grip, stance, and toss correct then the rest has a better chance being correct as well and then often times it's physical limitations like mobility, flexibility, strength etc.
I have a question...instead of pronating less for the slice serve, wouldn't a slight grip change (and the same amount of pronation as for a flat serve) produce the same effect?
I see only doing flat and slice great details other coaches can learn from you.
I appreciate that!
Great breakdown! How do you explain hitting a slice serve with more side spin than flat which provides more angle? I accidentally hit slices when I throw the ball at the 11am position and it feels like a half slice half top spin
I'm imagining that you're having to really lean to still make contact and that's the only way you can do it. I would suggest to really work on going up to the line with a certain serve in mind, let's say hit a flat serve. If you then toss the ball wrong, start over. Easier said than done, especially when that happens a few times and your opponent starts getting annoyed. But there are no rules that you have to hit a certain toss.
For a sidespin serve, you should use a one-handed backhand grip and hit closer to a 9 to 3 o'clock angle. Keep your tossing hand up as long as possible, keep your head up watching the ball, and stay sideways (don't turn to watch the flight of the ball too early or else you will miss to the left).
Can we get a video on topspin serve next?
I'm working on it yes!
You forgot to talk about the kick. How does it happen?
I have a special video on the kick serve th-cam.com/video/4Uv1YP8vyuM/w-d-xo.html
How do you get your right elbow so high?
Do you force it upward?
No, I don't try to force anything. More to the contrary, I try to be as relaxed as possible and if you have the right preparation you get into these positions unless there are physical limitations. We all have different mobility, flexibility, strength, levers etc. For instance, after my shoulder surgeries I have limited flexibility and range of motion so that I'm actually turning open way sooner than I used to. But for my purposes these days in teaching it's not limiting, it was at the end of my career
But I am hitting upward correct
On your serve,especially in your loading position ,i see your elbow is very low...just raise it a few notches, you will enjoy your serve ....😉
🤔🤔🙄🙄 why are you holding the raquette at the neck?
It's part of the progression. The closer you have the racket to your hitting hand the better you can "feel" what you're doing.
why is the serve so hard .... T.T
Improve the quality of your mic...i can hardly hear you without headphones...
Thanks!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Great lesson, thank you. I’m going to work on this. A proper serve is such a complex process. I’m struggling with my racquet drop and coming up on edge. My toss needs to improve as well, it’s all over the place.
Did you watch my latest video on the toss? th-cam.com/video/Igsw4hhwGLk/w-d-xo.html
Amazing lesson, so well explained and straight to the point! Danke schön!
You're welcome!
Thanks coach Meike, great quality video as usual. Very helpful instruction on the flat serve pronation and the slice variation.
Glad you found it helpful!
Very useful
Thank you!
Thanks a lot.. its been a great explanation .. I was stuck with slice serve couldnt figure out why i coulddnt hit flat anymore.. and all the time i thought i am pronating early and trying to delay it.. what a fool
I try think you have mistaken the flat serve is not easier in terms of getting your serve in its very hard which is why you second serve is a slice serve. Because the first serve is call first Now the difficulty in first serve is why they call flat serve
Perfect explanation! Thank you!
This is really helpful. Thanks
Overall good explanations, however, racquet face angle determines the direction and not the spin. Amount of spin is determined by the level of pronation, the less, the more spin. Ergo, you can slice to T on deuce side, not just wide.
I might have misunderstood the "racquet face tilt" part, if that's the case, my apologies.
Good catch! We're both in agreement, I should have made that clearer! I was actually going to go into placement in the same video but then decided against it bc I didn't want to make it too long. I will make another video where I make that distinction you're pointing out clear. Thank you for making me aware of this potential point of confusion!
Ah wow, this is amazing! I have been looking for a way to cure my waiters tray serve, and you have shown me the answer! I have previous injuries to my shoulder but your progressions will allow me to gently get the technique and feel that I can build upon to eventually get acceleration and power. Thank you!
That is great to hear. And thank you for your support
Excellent explanation!
Great lesson. Rehabing my dominant arm due to slight injury stretching for a forehand. I can hit ground strokes and volleys without issues. For serves, would the slice serve be less impact on the arm and better to work on as I go through my rehabilitation? Thank you in advance for your comment.
I think that's more a question for your doc or PT. I'd say the strain/ impact is the same for flat and slice because you're really only tilting the racket face a few degrees so no major difference.
Great video Meike - pronation drills w the hand only are great. Question - on the slice are you not pronating as much (as the flat), or just pronating a tad later?
Not quite as much. If you're doing it later you might mess up the timing. Great question!
You are the best tennis coach on TH-cam! Wish I could take a lesson with you
Thank you! Maybe one day! I'm planning some camps in Florida!
@@MeikeBabelTennis that would be so cool!
Thank you so much, Meike! You're really heaven sent for us! :-)
Wow, thank you so much for that!
If you ever get the chance to do an AD Wide serve video I would appreciate it. Double faulting at AD is killing me!
I'll put it on my "to film" list! Good suggestion!
@@MeikeBabelTennis great, thank you!
So much great teaching here! all I can say is thank you again Meike 🙏🎾
I appreciate that! And thank you for your always very kind comments!
One of the best videos on serves on TH-cam!
Glad you think so!
The volleyball analogy was gold, isolating the hand movement for better comprehension. I've been playing for decades, and have never noticed that equivalent movement. And I understand pronation.
And even though I know how to slice, that detail of "pronate less", was a perfect way of teaching a beginner, and I'm going to put it in play the next time I hit the court.
Again, excellent instructional video.
Hey Meike, isn’t hitting with palm corresponding with EFH grip? I’d say with conti grip you rotate further out to flatten it
Probably the best explanation of the slice I've seen on here. Every other video I've watched has unnecessarily overcomplicated it. Thanks Meike!
Wow, thank you! That is great to hear. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm making it too simplistic but I always remember how I was taught my technique and all my coaches kept it simple and let me experience it with these types of "feel" drills .