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@@2MinuteTennis It was the combination of the racquet path/angle and timing of the pronation that clicked for me. Perhaps you could do a similar demo for a topspin or kick serve at some point.
I am a recycled coach from playing college tennis & coaching over 400 juniors at a high level in the 70s/80s before going into an international business. I have returned to giving a limited # of lessons to be back around youth & find these explanations on the serve to be one of the reasons people are leaving tennis. They try & try & just can't get it due to the complexity of it all. I have watched the best servers in the world hit all four major serves, including the slice, & realize you are correct that pronation then out is what occurs. But there has to be a more simple way to coach it where youth can catch it & it doesn't sound so complex.
Hold on!! I commented without watching video in its entirety! 5:10 on does what I suggested! Well done. Perhaps an entire video just keeping it simple would suffice! 😉
I tend to pronate more on a hard slice serve than a flat serve simply because I’m trying to keep the racquet on edge longer and really trying to snap up into the ball, not trying to make sure the face is square at contact. BTW, there isn’t much pronation past contact, it is mostly shoulder internal rotation. Put your racquet in contact position and see just how much further you can get with no shoulder involvement. Not very far for most of us.
Cool vid! 💯👍 I've heard recently coaches talk about slow back and then fast forward to the ball on the serve, shouldn't the motion be the same speed throughout? Thanks 🙏
Hi Ryan, quick question regarding the dominant arm forearm. Prior to serving, during warm-up hitting simple forehands or backhands, I notice a "stretch" in the forearm muscle once I start moving my feet, and then after that stretch I see that my serve changes from the "waiter tray" serve to what I perceive as the correct serve motion, including achieving what I perceive as the correct continental grip. I am curious if you have noticed this "stretch" when you warm-up?
If pronation happens after striking the ball, it has no influence on the ball, such are the laws of physics. So a little bit of rotation happens before the ball is hit...
As stated in the video, most of the pronation happens after contact. But a good portion of it does happen before. So it has a huge influence on the ball. Thanks for watching.
@@2MinuteTennis Pronation is the only technique which I cannot feel in tennis. It does not make my ball faster, it does not make it spin more, so I must do something wrong. I suppose motion always starts with an acceleration, so initial motion of pronation has acceleration in it, which fades off after the ball is touched, so I have to touch the ball at that moment of maximum rotation acceleration. I just don´t feel it..
With slice serve there is more complex topic about pronation. Some pros like Fritz make visible pronation on slice serve and some dont and continiue motion right to left. It also make different results in ball trajectory. I test two of them and use two of them depends of situation (I am lefty) . When I use slice "without" pronation the spin is much better and after bounce ball is curve to right much more (if you are right handed it will be to the left). It is also shorter but very unpleasant to return because it throw oponent much more away from court. If I use slice with pronantion it is more powerfull but spin is very weird in my case - it wont curve so much to the right but after bounce it will curve more to the oponent or even little left (like the bounce is changing the trajectory of the ball). Maybe it is in my case only because I have natural spin on every serve - I cant serve 100% flat even on 1st serve it is always some topspin on big serves.
I have the same experience as you, though I struggle probably more with pronation on slice. I loose all my "feel" when I force it and miss a lot of serves. Those that land don't feel more spiny, but have some more pace to them. It would make sense as the pronation motion doesn't look it would add a lot of energy sideways to the ball but more towards the target. But meanwhile I saw some experienced players get a lot of a spin with a minimal motion, USING pronation. It might be that pronation on slice increases the friction and thus helps transmit more energy to the ball, improving spin as well if done correctly I guess I'm doing something wrong, but the good thing with tennis is that you can always improve no matter where you are ^^
Correct. There’s no such thing as a flat serve. All serves have spin. When you think of your “flat” serve the correct way you’ll be much more consistent.
@@2MinuteTennis Amazing video and shared thoughts btw 💯, that helped me a lot! Plus, from your POV, there is no wrist lag action in the serve, right? This is another recent thing I've recently learned while studying about serve
PlayYourCourt: playyourcourt.com/2MinuteTennis
TopspinPro: topspinpro.com/ref/2minutetennis/
IWinBigLaw is the official law firm of 2MinuteTennis. Follow WinBigLaw on TH-cam youtube.com/@winbiglaw?si=OwxMlNgiOPf-rrAY and IG instagram.com/winbiglaw_?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Best tennis instruction on TH-cam!!
Thanks Jim!
Thank you! This is the detailed contact angle info I have been waiting to see/learn. Great video presentation. I got this!
Very well explained.
Thanks! Best explanation and demonstration I’ve seen.
So glad to hear that. It’s a question I get often so I thought I’d make this video tonight. Thanks!!
@@2MinuteTennis It was the combination of the racquet path/angle and timing of the pronation that clicked for me. Perhaps you could do a similar demo for a topspin or kick serve at some point.
Hey thanks. And here you go: th-cam.com/video/WiubMAoW3OE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=5VS5CE4oxcteJf3F
One of the hardest moves on tennis
Nice high-speed demo! 😀
Thanks! 😀
I am a recycled coach from playing college tennis & coaching over 400 juniors at a high level in the 70s/80s before going into an international business. I have returned to giving a limited # of lessons to be back around youth & find these explanations on the serve to be one of the reasons people are leaving tennis. They try & try & just can't get it due to the complexity of it all. I have watched the best servers in the world hit all four major serves, including the slice, & realize you are correct that pronation then out is what occurs. But there has to be a more simple way to coach it where youth can catch it & it doesn't sound so complex.
Hold on!! I commented without watching video in its entirety! 5:10 on does what I suggested! Well done. Perhaps an entire video just keeping it simple would suffice! 😉
I tend to pronate more on a hard slice serve than a flat serve simply because I’m trying to keep the racquet on edge longer and really trying to snap up into the ball, not trying to make sure the face is square at contact. BTW, there isn’t much pronation past contact, it is mostly shoulder internal rotation. Put your racquet in contact position and see just how much further you can get with no shoulder involvement. Not very far for most of us.
Next level video Ryan 💯 % accurate
you are the best
Haha thanks Mikey!
Great Tips
I pinned your handle under PM’s IG clip for this exact topic 😊
I saw that. You are the reason I made this video. :)
@@2MinuteTennisthat is pretty cool ❤
Cool vid! 💯👍 I've heard recently coaches talk about slow back and then fast forward to the ball on the serve, shouldn't the motion be the same speed throughout? Thanks 🙏
Glad you liked it. The serve should def be slow first then speed up until ultimately going very fast as contact.
@@2MinuteTennis Thank you Coach! I was confused 🙏 appreciate you
Hi Ryan, quick question regarding the dominant arm forearm. Prior to serving, during warm-up hitting simple forehands or backhands, I notice a "stretch" in the forearm muscle once I start moving my feet, and then after that stretch I see that my serve changes from the "waiter tray" serve to what I perceive as the correct serve motion, including achieving what I perceive as the correct continental grip. I am curious if you have noticed this "stretch" when you warm-up?
Thanks Ryan!
If pronation happens after striking the ball, it has no influence on the ball, such are the laws of physics.
So a little bit of rotation happens before the ball is hit...
As stated in the video, most of the pronation happens after contact. But a good portion of it does happen before. So it has a huge influence on the ball. Thanks for watching.
@@2MinuteTennis Pronation is the only technique which I cannot feel in tennis. It does not make my ball faster, it does not make it spin more, so I must do something wrong.
I suppose motion always starts with an acceleration, so initial motion of pronation has acceleration in it, which fades off after the ball is touched, so I have to touch the ball at that moment of maximum rotation acceleration. I just don´t feel it..
Has your wife complained about the marks left on the wall by the ball? Joking aside, thanks for the great explanation.
Haha I recently painted so not anymore. Lol
👏👏👏
With slice serve there is more complex topic about pronation. Some pros like Fritz make visible pronation on slice serve and some dont and continiue motion right to left. It also make different results in ball trajectory. I test two of them and use two of them depends of situation (I am lefty) . When I use slice "without" pronation the spin is much better and after bounce ball is curve to right much more (if you are right handed it will be to the left). It is also shorter but very unpleasant to return because it throw oponent much more away from court. If I use slice with pronantion it is more powerfull but spin is very weird in my case - it wont curve so much to the right but after bounce it will curve more to the oponent or even little left (like the bounce is changing the trajectory of the ball). Maybe it is in my case only because I have natural spin on every serve - I cant serve 100% flat even on 1st serve it is always some topspin on big serves.
I have the same experience as you, though I struggle probably more with pronation on slice. I loose all my "feel" when I force it and miss a lot of serves. Those that land don't feel more spiny, but have some more pace to them. It would make sense as the pronation motion doesn't look it would add a lot of energy sideways to the ball but more towards the target. But meanwhile I saw some experienced players get a lot of a spin with a minimal motion, USING pronation. It might be that pronation on slice increases the friction and thus helps transmit more energy to the ball, improving spin as well if done correctly I guess I'm doing something wrong, but the good thing with tennis is that you can always improve no matter where you are ^^
Yeah this guy gets confused about pronation and continued pronation. Oh well
This is the video about the Flat serve? th-cam.com/video/TGenHi1N4co/w-d-xo.html
Correct. There’s no such thing as a flat serve. All serves have spin. When you think of your “flat” serve the correct way you’ll be much more consistent.
@@2MinuteTennis Amazing video and shared thoughts btw 💯, that helped me a lot! Plus, from your POV, there is no wrist lag action in the serve, right? This is another recent thing I've recently learned while studying about serve
Good teacher, but do I see a big hole on your sock?
Haha probably
P R O M O S M