Huh, Goldfish podcast talking about my reddit post, a nice surprise :) Also as I note in the comments, a lot of people's most painful memories of simic decks are actually "decks that contain simic cards" and not simic decks--Nadu decks were Bant, Rec decks were Temur, many Oko decks were Sultai, etc.
@@soleo2783 It's relevant because they discuss being surprised that simic is so low, but the reason it is so low does make sense in context that all the powerful simic cards they were discussing were primarily played as part of 3+ color decks.
36 packs was the number for drafting and prize support with a pack per win prize model. If you draft with 24(3 per player for a pod of 8) you have 12 left over. A draft is a 3 round event which means 12 matches played total(4 per round, 3 rounds). Thus 12 packs makes for a pack per win. 36 packs always made sense and was chosen for this reason at least in the draft perspective.
Its okay for people to have different views of a 30 year old card game. You dont have to talk like this about richard because you dont like his takes@@gigawarman12
On the topic of the best magic players only having a 60% win rate: Federer did a graduation speech and he said that even though he won 80% of his career matches, he only won 54% of the total points that he played. I think in most professional settings, getting those last few percentage points goes a long way and that’s how it’s supposed to be at that level.
About 20 years ago, I did an analysis on different mulligan types. By the far the best/most consistent at making actual games of magic happen was draw seven cards, then put any number on the bottom and draw that many replacement cards.
@@hlaw2830 Simulating a large number of opening hands with several different decks and mulligan strategies, and recording the number of keepable hands for each. There are also other side benefits I recorded, for example this version requires no shuffling. Also no, it does not just help combo. It does help combo, of course, but it helps every archetype.
@@Goryusthe problem is that combo benefits from consistency far more than any other archetype. I'm all for greater consistency, but we can't pretend this won't warp the metagame. Some combos people like would probably need to be banned. I personally prefer avoiding nongames, but many people would get really angry.
The current mulligan rules allow for finding specific cards with a higher likelihood than this rule does. It does not make combos more consistent, it makes balanced hands more consistent.
21:09 Crim's been catching glimpses of the goddamn Golden Path with this cutewatch thing. Phelia, Tinybones, Loot, Fblthp, Kediss. You keep that up the Mothership is going to pluck you like they just did to Cedric Philliips.
36 packs in a box seems like an ideal number when considering the prize support for drafts though. An 8 person pod will accrue 12 total wins so a pack per win means that one box can perfectly support the prize payout.
I can't remember the last episode that didn't have an extensive section about some new secret lair. I wish this game was more about playing and less about churning out new cashgrabs every week.
tinybones is my son and i love him. definitely agree with crims take on mascots. im already collecting every card with him in the art, id get a plush too if wotc made one
I had to skip out on a play booster box every set this year because of the stupid $140 price tag most local places have it at. Unless this reduction in packs brings the msrp down with it, it is POINTLESS.
I quit buying sealed entirely. It's just too inefficient for how I want to engage with the game. If collecting or gambling was my primary goal I'd still be buying sealed but at current prices I'd much rather only buy singles I need for my decks. Even if playboosters drop to 100 a box I don't want all the bulk and 1 copy of a card I want when I need 4.
Just because it has an MSRP, it doesn't mean it can't be sold for more. It literally is Market Suggested Retail Price and not the price you should sell it. Most people will sell it for that (mainly box stores) but LGS may sell coveted packs and such for more.
Thanks so much for answering my fishmail question! It was cool to hear Seth's thought process and Crim's advice. Richard's comment about the difficulty of coming into an established game is actually what inspired my question. [I came into the Super Smash Bros Melee competitive scene close to 20 years after it started and lost to every long time player for a couple years before getting good enough to keep up. Very interesting to hear that experience discussed through an mtg lens!]
I think the mulligan rules are just about perfect, frankly the variance is part of what magic so fun, I bet a lot of people's most memorable and most fun games were ones where they mulligan down to 4 and beat an opponent at 7 with a strong start. plus in the end it averages out since both players are equally likely to draw bad hands. also totally agree with richard on the massive skill expression of the mulligan, it's a huge difference maker
I agree completely, Paris mulligans very much had the potential to no-land you down to three or four, which is bad luck, not skill; these new London mulligans maintain the skill requirement, perhaps even emphasize it, while minimizing the bad luck issue. Back when I played 5-Color you got a free no-land, one-land, and seven-land _before_ Paris mulligans, which helped, but honestly London seems better.
@ yeah for sure, and honestly most of the magic I play these days is cube in which London mulligans are perhaps at their most interesting given the card pool and at least in my case knowledge of the other players decks
@ also those who played back in the Paris standard days I have a hard time believing they would want those mulligan rules back ngl 😅 I started in cawblade days which is hilarious that people are nostalgic for imo haha
True. Also, what isn't being discussed is how more forgiving mulligan rules encourage more linear decks, reduces variance and makes over powered cards come up more frequently. Personally, I'd gladly take an occasional non-game, then have every game play out exactly the same.
Mulligan Fix (Beta) Draw 6 cards, Tutor one basic after keeps. Yes, lets you play less lands in your deck, but also would reduce variance in such a way that it wouldn’t completely break the game. And player going second gets to scry 1. (In multiplayer you scry for each person before you in turn order, my playgroup uses this rule and it helps a lot)
So a few things about the 'which color is best'. Simic was underrepresented because A. Ramp is usually quite bad in 60 card unless costed efficiently. B. The post didn't include covid era and Magic Arena Championships, i.e the peak of Uro field of the dead horse hockey. C. As a sidenote there was old pro tour simic decks. UG Madness Baybee!
@@TheEvolver311 first dimir, second mono red, third izzet, fourth azorious, 5 some weird 4 color stuff. so the top 5 has 1 black archetype deck and blue has 3 on the top 5. pls shut the f up on hating the wrong thing. Get good.
I love snow, I love shoveling snow, and I do it in crocs. Turns out, shovel long enough and you just start taking layers off. By halfway through shoveling I’m down to my swim trunks and shoes and doing just fine in 14 degree weather
My pod uses a step down mulligan rule. You basically get a free mulligan for each step. E.g. Mulligan 1 (free mulligan) you can still keep 7 cards. Mulligan 2 you can keep 6 cards. Mulligan 3 (free mulligan) you can still keep 6 cards. Mulligan 4 you can keep 5 cards. Mulligan 5 (free mulligan) you can still keep 5 cards…. Playing fun magic takes priority to winning, regardless of the format we’re playing that week.
The mull is a very format dependant as well, like some formats' meta have really hard interaction checks, like ragavan, graveyard hate, free counterspell.. card quality also matters a lot
I like the idea of drawing 9 and putting 2 on the bottom, then having one opportunity to mulligan to 7 (draw 7 and keep them) and nothing beyond that. That way, your first hand is likely going to be better than your second one but you have a chance to dodge a really poor RNG hand.
I swear when Richard said to said the card weas featuring "your favorite; Loot" that it was going to be the time he finally snaps and flips the desk in blind rage.
20 Ways to Win is something on my Christmas list, mostly because it’s a funny deck with an achievement list and also a large amount of decent cards I don’t own (I’m a relatively new player)
Mulligan does not need fixing all that badly. If you want to do something, my suggestion would be to give the player on the draw the 8th card they would draw in their first turn in hand at the beginning. So going second loses you tempo but grants information.
And additionally, tell players to add more draw or filtering in their commander decks, lower deck curve and understand general deck building and land requirements. A majority of this issue seems to be coming from players who just, don't build their decks effectively to ramp into, draw into what they need. Heck, I hate to say it, but they really need to follow Richard's advice and never ever miss a land drop. It's a good start for EDH players especially non green ones.
I'd say London mulligans _were_ the fix, Paris mulligans had bad luck issues, but London pretty much eliminates that problem. As the other commenter said, skill issue, not every deck is Ten Land Stompy, people need to pay attention to their own curve and build accordingly. Also, going second already grants card advantage, that's enough.
My local play group does the gist mulligan. You draw seven and if you don’t like the first hand you set it aside and draw a new seven. If you don’t have three lands you can keep doing that until like a hand or pull three lands.
A good way to make buying full boxes worth it is the box toppers. They add an extra chance for a really good card especially if the card selection is mostly cards of decent game ply or monetary value.
The mulligan rule and different levels of consistency are some of the most interesting things about magic. And I agree with Seth, the game would be even better with more variance. It's a card game. Skill is expressed through large sample sizes and over time and in taking better chances, not in perfect script memorization. Again, it's not chess.
I feel like a start by drawing 9 and shipping two to the bottom feels interesting, followed by a blind mill to seven then currently rules from there, or stop at the seven could be interesting
I use to buy a 1-2 new booster boxes every set and now I just get bundles and a couple boosters. From what I have opened, my opening experience feels great if my rares equal or surpasses the box value, even if I don’t need the cards. The box has to feel like it’s worth opening
What if you start with 7 cards and if you keep first hand you get to scry 1. If you mulligan you draw 7 but give up your scry. Then regular mulligan rules. Tiny difference but less feel bad?
As far as the "average skill" question goes, I think there are generally two skill sets in the game. To borrow language from music, you can sight-read, or you can commit a piece to memory. Some people are good at picking up a new piece and running proficiently through it, and other people are good at perfecting the intricacies of a piece through numerous repetitions. Limited players tend to be better at sight-reading the game, while constructed players tend to be learning the same decks through repetitive play. As product releases speed up, and power creep happens faster, the capability to "commit a piece to memory" goes down, because the landscape changes too fast. Product speed is increasing the need to sight-read the game and create new winning decks every few weeks.
Simic is great for casual commander, but I am pretty sure green is relatively bad in CEDH. It probably is not a great comparison to compare best competitive 60 card decks against to the best casual commander colors
I could see softening the mulligan rule to 7 > 7 put 1 back > 6, Idea being if you are on the mull to 4 you are probably toast anyway. It would make the mull to 5 scenario a little bit less punishing but you could definitely still lose to variance.
I think white is great in commander and I play a ton of it, but I play very little mono color at all, and nothing has made me wanna build a mono white deck yet. It feels perfectly good but like you’d have to lean into control and/or using every good white card draw spell. I’ve definitely lost to mono white decks, Light Paws comes to mind.
In terms of mulligans, it could be interesting seeing them do something along the lines of Weiss Schwarz where you draw your hand (5 in that game) but your mulligan is discarding things to grave The only concern is it would benefit certain decks a ton and could screw over people that draw their 1-ofs 😅
Do what you want with the mulligan rule, my luck wont allow me to mull a "keepable" hand anyway since it will always become a 1 or 6 lander the 2nd time around 😅
I agree with Crim pretty often on his opinions but whatever he was talking about with Loot had me scratching my head like 'what the hell are you saying man?' Seth is definitely right about Loot
Every time Richard makes claims about the EDH community as a whole, he just seems so out of touch. Literally no one thinks red is the best color - almost everyone I talk to either in my regular playgroup or not thinks it is the weakest.
Common mulligan house rule? Draw 9, put 2 on the bottom. Sculpts your hand into playable pretty much every time. Sure, could be abused, but we're here to have fun and not shuffle for half an hour to see who wins.
50 cards + Two cards of the same name max (excluding basic lands) 6 card opening hand, one free mulligan then you keep and go Would that be enough to allow for more variety in games?
What if the mulligan rule was something more like the old mulligan rule, where you redraw 6 instead of 7, but for every time you mulligan you get to conjure a wastes into your hand. Obvious first concern is colorless decks having a huge advantage with this change. If there was a work around for those, does that otherwise mitigate the issue of having less cards than your opponent or not being able to consistently hit lands like Richard was saying?
I think 30 is a good amount for draft. You get 24 for drafting and then the top 3 players get packs, 3 for 1st, 2 for 2nd,1 for 3rd. If they need more then you can open a second box.
The idea that they need cute cards to bring in younger players is stupid. Younger players had no issue getting into the game when it took itself more seriously.
So for my commander discord that i play in we draw 10 and put 3 on bottom. It stops you from missing your land drops and makes you think about what cards you wanna keep to help accelerate your game plan. Seems to work for us. If you "have" to mulligan you draw nine and put 2 back. You'll always start with 7.
I did the same thing once, but it was in the context of a 600-1100 card deck with all five colors which everyone shared (like, same library, not a cube).
Most play booster boxes at the large online retailers have sold for $120 for 36 packs. F&F is selling Aetherdrift DRAFT Boxes which makes sense as 120/36*30=$100. Any price higher would be shrink flation. Nevertheless recent draft sets in 2022 and 2023 included a bonus sheet that along with the foil wildslot gave you similar rare mythic pulls as today's playbooster packs. Those draft boxes cost $99 for 36 packs. So we still got hit with shrink flation, WOTC just did so in a very round about matter by first switching to higher priced playbooster boxes that originally had similar rare pulls as set boosters and then dropping the pull rates significantly starting with Bloomburrow and then dropping number of packs to 30. After OTJ, I am going to call all future play booster boxes draft boxes in protest as they dropped the pull rates to those of drafts with bonus sheets rather than set boosters odds that they originally sold the public on.
Commander Clash Idea! 20 Ways to Win (Four Way) - Each member chooses at least five "you win the game" cards/conditions to bring to the table. Bonus if you have a short session recorded together where you each randomly roll for which five win-cons you must build your deck around. Cards I found that fit this criteria: Approach of the Second Sun (6W) Azor's Elocutors (3WW/3UU) Barren Glory (4WW) B̶a̶t̶t̶l̶e̶ o̶f̶ W̶i̶t̶s̶ (̶3̶B̶B̶)̶ Biovisionary (1GU) Celestial Convergence (2WW) Central Elevator (3U) / Promising Stairs (2U) Chance Encounter (2RR) Darksteel Reactor (4) Epic Struggle (2GG) Felidar Sovereign (4WW) Gallifrey Stands (4WU) Halo Fountain (2W) Happily Ever After (2W) H̶e̶d̶r̶o̶n̶ A̶l̶i̶g̶n̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ (̶2̶U̶)̶ allow a sideboard of two/three copies? Helix Pinnacle (G) Hellkite Tyrant (4RR) Jace, Wielder of Mysteries (1UUU) Laboratory Maniac (2U) Liliana's Contract (3BB) Luck Bobblehead (3) Mayael's Aria (RGW) Maze's End Mechanized Production (2UU) Mortal Combat (2BB) Near Death Experience (2WWW) Ramses, Assassin Lord (2UB) Revel In Riches (4B) Simic Ascendancy (GU) Test of Endurance (2WW) Thassa's Oracle (UU) Triskaidekaphile (1U) Twenty-Toed Toad (3B) Now that I am looking at this list, maybe this could be reserved for a super salty week, as there are quite a few two card combos with these. Enchantment removal would also be pretty important across the board.
16:45 I'm with you, Seth. I hate how fake the whole thing with Loot feels. Corporate wants their Grogu! It's like someone trying really hard to "go viral."
I get the reducing the number of packs to reduce the overall price of a box but opening play boosters still feels bad. Its a bad opening experience except for Thunder Junction because of how stacked the special guests were.
I think the argument about consistency is actually an argument about agency. Getting the same cards every game isn't the issue, many games have the same pieces each time; just look at Chess. The issue is actually with the way that the two decks matching up affects the agency of the players. The worst feeling I have in Magic is seeing my opponent play a card, and wanting to concede because I know I won't lose for 8 more turns, but I have thought through those turns and I don't think I can win. The matchups in Magic are too lopsided to allow for a certain level of consistency. If we had a world where all decks were stacked, the game would be solved like Tic-Tac-Toe. The variance allows for the agency, which is how skill is expressed without "solving" the game.
I agree the average skill level has gone done. Not in competitive magic, but over all. I'm a middling player at best. I make Mythic on Arena, because anyone can do it, but that's about it. I went to the Bloomburrow and Duskmourn pre-releases and annihilated my pods. It wasn't that I was good, it was that half my pods were Commander players who'd never played in an RCQ in their life.
48:18 Richard, come try the pokemon tcg. It's ALL about consistency. The game is full of searchers and draw cards. It's common for games to end 6 turns in and players have under 10 cards left in deck. Try pokemon, it's very fun.
Not everyone can draft at an lgs so getting 6 to 8 friends for a holiday draft it's nice for that box to have prize support or extra packs for whoever can put up the most finding for the draft cause not everyone can put up the same amount
Mulligan suggestion. Everytime you mulligan you get to put one basic land in a new zone called land board. If you have lands in your land board, you may draw from that pile instead of your upkeep draw.
@mtggoldfish Suggestion for commander clash. Play commander with is these alterations. Your commander is a planeswalker that starts at 0 loyalty on the battlefield. (Same deck building restrictions as though the planeswalker is your commander) The planeswalker cannot be removed from the battlefield for any reason, any destroy or exile effects simply remove all counters on the planeswalker. Idk if it is good, but I am curious to see if it is fun, and I don’t have a pod to play with.
@@christopherneedham9584first thought, I get to run jeska and triple all damage from one source for free. Any change can be built around and broken because it hasnt been designed around
@@SWAT6809 I don’t think that would be too strong personally. Unless you can consistently give a creature unblockable, especially with how many planeswalkers just produce chump blockers as their plus ability. Either way, I am sure there would be broken planeswalkers, I am just curious to see how it plays out, and since I am unable to do so, I am hoping to live vicariously through the commander crew.
Commander is becoming bad to play for everyone not just beginners. Precons used to be the low level of Magic even 2 years ago but nowadays a precon will stomp lower level decks. Too many people play nothing original and it's just EDHREC net-decks that are fully optimized. I am beginning to find the format very dull.
New format idea for increased variance. For each card in your deck you get different amounts depending on its lowest rarity in each given format. Common 6 Uncommon 3 Rare 2 Mythic 1 So like if you were playing standard legal cards youd go with its lowest rarity printing in current standard a modern masters printing doesn't effect that ect. Or if it was a uncommon 15 yrs earlier but is a comon now ect.
I wish play booster boxes were $120-$130. Here in NC my local game stores sell play booster boxes for $150-$170. And that's all my local games stores within a 20 mile radius 😢😢
I picked up this precon. Basically, I win too often in my pod. I think this deck will be super fun to play unmodified as a challenge to try and win at least once with every win con.
Huh, Goldfish podcast talking about my reddit post, a nice surprise :) Also as I note in the comments, a lot of people's most painful memories of simic decks are actually "decks that contain simic cards" and not simic decks--Nadu decks were Bant, Rec decks were Temur, many Oko decks were Sultai, etc.
Sure, but the problematic part of those decks were the simic cards, so i don't see how this is relevant lol
@@soleo2783 It's relevant because they discuss being surprised that simic is so low, but the reason it is so low does make sense in context that all the powerful simic cards they were discussing were primarily played as part of 3+ color decks.
36 packs was the number for drafting and prize support with a pack per win prize model. If you draft with 24(3 per player for a pod of 8) you have 12 left over. A draft is a 3 round event which means 12 matches played total(4 per round, 3 rounds). Thus 12 packs makes for a pack per win. 36 packs always made sense and was chosen for this reason at least in the draft perspective.
Came to comment this.
Just goes to show how much of lack of awareness Richard has. Or how much of a tool he is. Both aren't out of the question.
So it's a product aimed at stores.
If it was for players, it'd be 24 indeed.
@@Nathanael_Forlorn how do you figure that?
Its okay for people to have different views of a 30 year old card game. You dont have to talk like this about richard because you dont like his takes@@gigawarman12
calling that 20 ways to win deck an against the odds deck is an affront to Seth's godlike deck building prowess
Boiler biggles
We got rules about 1 land 1 keep 🧐
Agreed friend
On the topic of the best magic players only having a 60% win rate: Federer did a graduation speech and he said that even though he won 80% of his career matches, he only won 54% of the total points that he played.
I think in most professional settings, getting those last few percentage points goes a long way and that’s how it’s supposed to be at that level.
Crim actually being like a kitten that sees snow for the first time.
About 20 years ago, I did an analysis on different mulligan types. By the far the best/most consistent at making actual games of magic happen was draw seven cards, then put any number on the bottom and draw that many replacement cards.
How did you do this analysis?
Does that not just help combo out by far
@@hlaw2830 Simulating a large number of opening hands with several different decks and mulligan strategies, and recording the number of keepable hands for each. There are also other side benefits I recorded, for example this version requires no shuffling.
Also no, it does not just help combo. It does help combo, of course, but it helps every archetype.
@@Goryusthe problem is that combo benefits from consistency far more than any other archetype.
I'm all for greater consistency, but we can't pretend this won't warp the metagame. Some combos people like would probably need to be banned. I personally prefer avoiding nongames, but many people would get really angry.
The current mulligan rules allow for finding specific cards with a higher likelihood than this rule does. It does not make combos more consistent, it makes balanced hands more consistent.
21:09 Crim's been catching glimpses of the goddamn Golden Path with this cutewatch thing. Phelia, Tinybones, Loot, Fblthp, Kediss. You keep that up the Mothership is going to pluck you like they just did to Cedric Philliips.
The MTG mascot is clearly the Hurloon Minotaur!
Hurloon Minotaur one of Mtg's early disappointments for new players. "Who's this cool looking Minotaur? Just some jack ass huh"
36 packs in a box seems like an ideal number when considering the prize support for drafts though. An 8 person pod will accrue 12 total wins so a pack per win means that one box can perfectly support the prize payout.
If there is no price difference, stores can just do one box as price support for two drafts then. If you do a draft with friends, do whatever.
I agree. I like to draft with friends, and having to buy additional packs for prize support is just going to be annoying.
I can't remember the last episode that didn't have an extensive section about some new secret lair. I wish this game was more about playing and less about churning out new cashgrabs every week.
tinybones is my son and i love him. definitely agree with crims take on mascots. im already collecting every card with him in the art, id get a plush too if wotc made one
I had to skip out on a play booster box every set this year because of the stupid $140 price tag most local places have it at. Unless this reduction in packs brings the msrp down with it, it is POINTLESS.
It will probably be reflected in higher singles prices for chase rares prob
I quit buying sealed entirely. It's just too inefficient for how I want to engage with the game. If collecting or gambling was my primary goal I'd still be buying sealed but at current prices I'd much rather only buy singles I need for my decks. Even if playboosters drop to 100 a box I don't want all the bulk and 1 copy of a card I want when I need 4.
Just because it has an MSRP, it doesn't mean it can't be sold for more. It literally is Market Suggested Retail Price and not the price you should sell it. Most people will sell it for that (mainly box stores) but LGS may sell coveted packs and such for more.
Dang, mine are releasing for 150-170...
Thanks so much for answering my fishmail question!
It was cool to hear Seth's thought process and Crim's advice. Richard's comment about the difficulty of coming into an established game is actually what inspired my question. [I came into the Super Smash Bros Melee competitive scene close to 20 years after it started and lost to every long time player for a couple years before getting good enough to keep up. Very interesting to hear that experience discussed through an mtg lens!]
20 ways to "if I only had enough mana"
"Do you think people would say red is the best colour in commander? I would be "shock"." Totally made my day
The first Blue/Black pro tour deck I can think of was Psychatog
22:20 "Thank God for Universes Beyond" is the funniest and truest thing ever
I think the mulligan rules are just about perfect, frankly the variance is part of what magic so fun, I bet a lot of people's most memorable and most fun games were ones where they mulligan down to 4 and beat an opponent at 7 with a strong start. plus in the end it averages out since both players are equally likely to draw bad hands. also totally agree with richard on the massive skill expression of the mulligan, it's a huge difference maker
I agree completely, Paris mulligans very much had the potential to no-land you down to three or four, which is bad luck, not skill; these new London mulligans maintain the skill requirement, perhaps even emphasize it, while minimizing the bad luck issue.
Back when I played 5-Color you got a free no-land, one-land, and seven-land _before_ Paris mulligans, which helped, but honestly London seems better.
@ yeah for sure, and honestly most of the magic I play these days is cube in which London mulligans are perhaps at their most interesting given the card pool and at least in my case knowledge of the other players decks
@ also those who played back in the Paris standard days I have a hard time believing they would want those mulligan rules back ngl 😅 I started in cawblade days which is hilarious that people are nostalgic for imo haha
True. Also, what isn't being discussed is how more forgiving mulligan rules encourage more linear decks, reduces variance and makes over powered cards come up more frequently. Personally, I'd gladly take an occasional non-game, then have every game play out exactly the same.
In my opinion, one of the best blue black decks that I designed I Pioneered and won a lot of tournaments in my area with my blue black PSYCHATOG deck
Cute Watch! I'm so in. That sounds adorable!
Mulligan Fix (Beta)
Draw 6 cards, Tutor one basic after keeps.
Yes, lets you play less lands in your deck, but also would reduce variance in such a way that it wouldn’t completely break the game.
And player going second gets to scry 1. (In multiplayer you scry for each person before you in turn order, my playgroup uses this rule and it helps a lot)
So a few things about the 'which color is best'.
Simic was underrepresented because A. Ramp is usually quite bad in 60 card unless costed efficiently.
B. The post didn't include covid era and Magic Arena Championships, i.e the peak of Uro field of the dead horse hockey.
C. As a sidenote there was old pro tour simic decks. UG Madness Baybee!
The real take here is nerf blue period, the color has had too much success while been the most annoying hated color.
@@bladoracBlack is the best color
@@TheEvolver311 Yes if you count only 4 colors. black been good now does not mean is better than blue.
@@bladorac it has been the best color for decades
@@TheEvolver311 first dimir, second mono red, third izzet, fourth azorious, 5 some weird 4 color stuff.
so the top 5 has 1 black archetype deck and blue has 3 on the top 5. pls shut the f up on hating the wrong thing. Get good.
I come from the era of Magic players whom "Jace, the Mind Sculptor" comes to mind when they think of Magic
Cards don't have value until you make the effort to sell them (or you play them)
There's always that uncle at thanksgiving bringing mulligan to the table. 😆
I love snow, I love shoveling snow, and I do it in crocs. Turns out, shovel long enough and you just start taking layers off. By halfway through shoveling I’m down to my swim trunks and shoes and doing just fine in 14 degree weather
My pod uses a step down mulligan rule. You basically get a free mulligan for each step. E.g. Mulligan 1 (free mulligan) you can still keep 7 cards. Mulligan 2 you can keep 6 cards. Mulligan 3 (free mulligan) you can still keep 6 cards. Mulligan 4 you can keep 5 cards. Mulligan 5 (free mulligan) you can still keep 5 cards…. Playing fun magic takes priority to winning, regardless of the format we’re playing that week.
Think my hair turned a little blue today...Crim was cooking!!
Richard compains about magic being a card game at around 51:00
This is very funny.
The mull is a very format dependant as well, like some formats' meta have really hard interaction checks, like ragavan, graveyard hate, free counterspell.. card quality also matters a lot
Last time Jeskai was dominant was Jeskai Hinata with Magma opus. Deck was insane and it wasn't that long ago.
I like the idea of drawing 9 and putting 2 on the bottom, then having one opportunity to mulligan to 7 (draw 7 and keep them) and nothing beyond that.
That way, your first hand is likely going to be better than your second one but you have a chance to dodge a really poor RNG hand.
I swear when Richard said to said the card weas featuring "your favorite; Loot" that it was going to be the time he finally snaps and flips the desk in blind rage.
Was legit hoping fish mail would just be them responding to questions about when fish mail was coming back
20 Ways to Win is something on my Christmas list, mostly because it’s a funny deck with an achievement list and also a large amount of decent cards I don’t own (I’m a relatively new player)
Alternative Mulligan suggestion: You can put the cards on the bottom or on the top, so you can ensure you hit your land drops if you need.
Mulligan does not need fixing all that badly. If you want to do something, my suggestion would be to give the player on the draw the 8th card they would draw in their first turn in hand at the beginning. So going second loses you tempo but grants information.
And additionally, tell players to add more draw or filtering in their commander decks, lower deck curve and understand general deck building and land requirements.
A majority of this issue seems to be coming from players who just, don't build their decks effectively to ramp into, draw into what they need. Heck, I hate to say it, but they really need to follow Richard's advice and never ever miss a land drop. It's a good start for EDH players especially non green ones.
I'd say London mulligans _were_ the fix, Paris mulligans had bad luck issues, but London pretty much eliminates that problem. As the other commenter said, skill issue, not every deck is Ten Land Stompy, people need to pay attention to their own curve and build accordingly.
Also, going second already grants card advantage, that's enough.
@@hlaw2830going second is massively disadvantaged, card advantage lol
My local play group does the gist mulligan. You draw seven and if you don’t like the first hand you set it aside and draw a new seven. If you don’t have three lands you can keep doing that until like a hand or pull three lands.
Would love to see all four of you pilot this deck on a commander Clash
A good way to make buying full boxes worth it is the box toppers. They add an extra chance for a really good card especially if the card selection is mostly cards of decent game ply or monetary value.
Red is thankfully pretty bad in cedh right now after the dockside ban. I would say U, W, B are the best colors right now.
Zur Is back on the menu boys
Is the 4 of rule worth revisiting? 4 was chosen at a time there was no limit. What if the max was 3 or 2 of any card?
The mulligan rule and different levels of consistency are some of the most interesting things about magic. And I agree with Seth, the game would be even better with more variance. It's a card game. Skill is expressed through large sample sizes and over time and in taking better chances, not in perfect script memorization. Again, it's not chess.
I feel like a start by drawing 9 and shipping two to the bottom feels interesting, followed by a blind mill to seven then currently rules from there, or stop at the seven could be interesting
I use to buy a 1-2 new booster boxes every set and now I just get bundles and a couple boosters. From what I have opened, my opening experience feels great if my rares equal or surpasses the box value, even if I don’t need the cards. The box has to feel like it’s worth opening
Honesty I bought a box of every set religiously but too much comes out too fast havent bought one in years and probably never will again
@ what if they drop to $99.99 like they said in the pod?
@bryantbravo9363 if at the same time they go to 30 Packs, that's a sixth of value still lost, so nothing effectively changes then, no?
36 packs is perfect for my home group, we usually get 6 people so one box is two full drafts which is nice
What if you start with 7 cards and if you keep first hand you get to scry 1. If you mulligan you draw 7 but give up your scry. Then regular mulligan rules. Tiny difference but less feel bad?
Dimir represent!! 💙🖤
As far as the "average skill" question goes, I think there are generally two skill sets in the game. To borrow language from music, you can sight-read, or you can commit a piece to memory. Some people are good at picking up a new piece and running proficiently through it, and other people are good at perfecting the intricacies of a piece through numerous repetitions. Limited players tend to be better at sight-reading the game, while constructed players tend to be learning the same decks through repetitive play.
As product releases speed up, and power creep happens faster, the capability to "commit a piece to memory" goes down, because the landscape changes too fast. Product speed is increasing the need to sight-read the game and create new winning decks every few weeks.
And then there are those of us who can play by ear.
@@Cybertech134 That definitely sounds like an un-card. "As long as you only touch your cards with your ear, your creatures have +3/+3".
@@ethanglaeser9239 slams side of head into table
Naw, I've seen plenty of players suffer game losses in events because they have a very casual understanding of the game.
@@TheEvolver311 So... they are bad at the game. How does that fact warrant a "naw" as if it contradicts my original point?
Simic is great for casual commander, but I am pretty sure green is relatively bad in CEDH. It probably is not a great comparison to compare best competitive 60 card decks against to the best casual commander colors
Forgot about the Angel Secret Lair precon. 350€ over here on card market.
Here comes the green glazing
On Mulligan; add one "free" Mulligan if you reveal and have all or no lands
Starting hand of 9 would make combo decks very OP
29:48 Crim was right. I'm not surprised
I could see softening the mulligan rule to 7 > 7 put 1 back > 6, Idea being if you are on the mull to 4 you are probably toast anyway. It would make the mull to 5 scenario a little bit less punishing but you could definitely still lose to variance.
I think white is great in commander and I play a ton of it, but I play very little mono color at all, and nothing has made me wanna build a mono white deck yet. It feels perfectly good but like you’d have to lean into control and/or using every good white card draw spell. I’ve definitely lost to mono white decks, Light Paws comes to mind.
In terms of mulligans, it could be interesting seeing them do something along the lines of Weiss Schwarz where you draw your hand (5 in that game) but your mulligan is discarding things to grave
The only concern is it would benefit certain decks a ton and could screw over people that draw their 1-ofs 😅
The white member of the cutewatch is clearly Mesa Falcon
Do what you want with the mulligan rule, my luck wont allow me to mull a "keepable" hand anyway since it will always become a 1 or 6 lander the 2nd time around 😅
hey guys what do u think about the second player starting with a treasure token
Seth 100% right on Loot
I agree with Crim pretty often on his opinions but whatever he was talking about with Loot had me scratching my head like 'what the hell are you saying man?'
Seth is definitely right about Loot
Every time Richard makes claims about the EDH community as a whole, he just seems so out of touch. Literally no one thinks red is the best color - almost everyone I talk to either in my regular playgroup or not thinks it is the weakest.
44:33 If we draw 9 to start, I think we should just put 2 back even if you don't mulligan.
Loot is cute. Loot is green. thats all we care about, good card
Common mulligan house rule?
Draw 9, put 2 on the bottom. Sculpts your hand into playable pretty much every time.
Sure, could be abused, but we're here to have fun and not shuffle for half an hour to see who wins.
50 cards +
Two cards of the same name max (excluding basic lands)
6 card opening hand, one free mulligan then you keep and go
Would that be enough to allow for more variety in games?
What if the mulligan rule was something more like the old mulligan rule, where you redraw 6 instead of 7, but for every time you mulligan you get to conjure a wastes into your hand. Obvious first concern is colorless decks having a huge advantage with this change. If there was a work around for those, does that otherwise mitigate the issue of having less cards than your opponent or not being able to consistently hit lands like Richard was saying?
I think 30 is a good amount for draft. You get 24 for drafting and then the top 3 players get packs, 3 for 1st, 2 for 2nd,1 for 3rd. If they need more then you can open a second box.
The idea that they need cute cards to bring in younger players is stupid. Younger players had no issue getting into the game when it took itself more seriously.
I feel like the cute cards are to appeal to different markets, not age ranges
High Fantasy period isn't as popular as it was in the 1970-90's.
So for my commander discord that i play in we draw 10 and put 3 on bottom. It stops you from missing your land drops and makes you think about what cards you wanna keep to help accelerate your game plan. Seems to work for us. If you "have" to mulligan you draw nine and put 2 back. You'll always start with 7.
I did the same thing once, but it was in the context of a 600-1100 card deck with all five colors which everyone shared (like, same library, not a cube).
Most play booster boxes at the large online retailers have sold for $120 for 36 packs.
F&F is selling Aetherdrift DRAFT Boxes which makes sense as 120/36*30=$100. Any price higher would be shrink flation.
Nevertheless recent draft sets in 2022 and 2023 included a bonus sheet that along with the foil wildslot gave you similar rare mythic pulls as today's playbooster packs. Those draft boxes cost $99 for 36 packs. So we still got hit with shrink flation, WOTC just did so in a very round about matter by first switching to higher priced playbooster boxes that originally had similar rare pulls as set boosters and then dropping the pull rates significantly starting with Bloomburrow and then dropping number of packs to 30.
After OTJ, I am going to call all future play booster boxes draft boxes in protest as they dropped the pull rates to those of drafts with bonus sheets rather than set boosters odds that they originally sold the public on.
SQUEE AS REPRESENTATIVE FOR RED IN THE CUTE-WATCH!!!
No
Disagree. Snow is the best even, especially when you live in it. I live in northern Canada and it's amazing!
Commander Clash Idea!
20 Ways to Win (Four Way) - Each member chooses at least five "you win the game" cards/conditions to bring to the table. Bonus if you have a short session recorded together where you each randomly roll for which five win-cons you must build your deck around.
Cards I found that fit this criteria:
Approach of the Second Sun (6W)
Azor's Elocutors (3WW/3UU)
Barren Glory (4WW)
B̶a̶t̶t̶l̶e̶ o̶f̶ W̶i̶t̶s̶ (̶3̶B̶B̶)̶
Biovisionary (1GU)
Celestial Convergence (2WW)
Central Elevator (3U) / Promising Stairs (2U)
Chance Encounter (2RR)
Darksteel Reactor (4)
Epic Struggle (2GG)
Felidar Sovereign (4WW)
Gallifrey Stands (4WU)
Halo Fountain (2W)
Happily Ever After (2W)
H̶e̶d̶r̶o̶n̶ A̶l̶i̶g̶n̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ (̶2̶U̶)̶ allow a sideboard of two/three copies?
Helix Pinnacle (G)
Hellkite Tyrant (4RR)
Jace, Wielder of Mysteries (1UUU)
Laboratory Maniac (2U)
Liliana's Contract (3BB)
Luck Bobblehead (3)
Mayael's Aria (RGW)
Maze's End
Mechanized Production (2UU)
Mortal Combat (2BB)
Near Death Experience (2WWW)
Ramses, Assassin Lord (2UB)
Revel In Riches (4B)
Simic Ascendancy (GU)
Test of Endurance (2WW)
Thassa's Oracle (UU)
Triskaidekaphile (1U)
Twenty-Toed Toad (3B)
Now that I am looking at this list, maybe this could be reserved for a super salty week, as there are quite a few two card combos with these. Enchantment removal would also be pretty important across the board.
16:45 I'm with you, Seth. I hate how fake the whole thing with Loot feels. Corporate wants their Grogu! It's like someone trying really hard to "go viral."
I get the reducing the number of packs to reduce the overall price of a box but opening play boosters still feels bad. Its a bad opening experience except for Thunder Junction because of how stacked the special guests were.
A few of these are cedh staples with very limited art options. so I got it
Could 100% make a general rule that said "if you have no more than 3 of any card, mulligain rules change to X" to reward the gameplay pattern.
New Loot should be nick named Mountain Doot. There will be so many spills at the table from this card.
I think the argument about consistency is actually an argument about agency. Getting the same cards every game isn't the issue, many games have the same pieces each time; just look at Chess. The issue is actually with the way that the two decks matching up affects the agency of the players. The worst feeling I have in Magic is seeing my opponent play a card, and wanting to concede because I know I won't lose for 8 more turns, but I have thought through those turns and I don't think I can win. The matchups in Magic are too lopsided to allow for a certain level of consistency. If we had a world where all decks were stacked, the game would be solved like Tic-Tac-Toe. The variance allows for the agency, which is how skill is expressed without "solving" the game.
For the Mulligan what if you drew two hands, could throw one back, and those two are your final options, then choose one.
I agree the average skill level has gone done. Not in competitive magic, but over all. I'm a middling player at best. I make Mythic on Arena, because anyone can do it, but that's about it. I went to the Bloomburrow and Duskmourn pre-releases and annihilated my pods. It wasn't that I was good, it was that half my pods were Commander players who'd never played in an RCQ in their life.
@Crim red is Squee, and it will always be Squee
48:18 Richard, come try the pokemon tcg. It's ALL about consistency. The game is full of searchers and draw cards. It's common for games to end 6 turns in and players have under 10 cards left in deck. Try pokemon, it's very fun.
Not everyone can draft at an lgs so getting 6 to 8 friends for a holiday draft it's nice for that box to have prize support or extra packs for whoever can put up the most finding for the draft cause not everyone can put up the same amount
Seth, why your Bills gotta do my boys like that on Sunday? 😭😭
I think the 49ers are solid, just too many injuries and I imagine traveling across the country from CA to play in the snow in Buffalo is tough lol.
@ we really are injured all over! Either way, the Bills are a great team and Allen is a beast-y’all are going far postseason.
Mulligan suggestion. Everytime you mulligan you get to put one basic land in a new zone called land board.
If you have lands in your land board, you may draw from that pile instead of your upkeep draw.
I asked day or two ago another content creator to do episode about that very subject:)
@mtggoldfish
Suggestion for commander clash. Play commander with is these alterations. Your commander is a planeswalker that starts at 0 loyalty on the battlefield. (Same deck building restrictions as though the planeswalker is your commander)
The planeswalker cannot be removed from the battlefield for any reason, any destroy or exile effects simply remove all counters on the planeswalker.
Idk if it is good, but I am curious to see if it is fun, and I don’t have a pod to play with.
it would be way to easy to break.
@ break how? Like certain planeswalkers would be broken?
@@christopherneedham9584first thought, I get to run jeska and triple all damage from one source for free. Any change can be built around and broken because it hasnt been designed around
@@SWAT6809 I don’t think that would be too strong personally. Unless you can consistently give a creature unblockable, especially with how many planeswalkers just produce chump blockers as their plus ability.
Either way, I am sure there would be broken planeswalkers, I am just curious to see how it plays out, and since I am unable to do so, I am hoping to live vicariously through the commander crew.
@christopherneedham9584 the unteractible nature is the problematic part
Commander is becoming bad to play for everyone not just beginners. Precons used to be the low level of Magic even 2 years ago but nowadays a precon will stomp lower level decks. Too many people play nothing original and it's just EDHREC net-decks that are fully optimized. I am beginning to find the format very dull.
New format idea for increased variance.
For each card in your deck you get different amounts depending on its lowest rarity in each given format.
Common 6
Uncommon 3
Rare 2
Mythic 1
So like if you were playing standard legal cards youd go with its lowest rarity printing in current standard a modern masters printing doesn't effect that ect. Or if it was a uncommon 15 yrs earlier but is a comon now ect.
I wish play booster boxes were $120-$130. Here in NC my local game stores sell play booster boxes for $150-$170.
And that's all my local games stores within a 20 mile radius 😢😢
Shrine tokens in the Secret Lair make it 100% worth 🎉
How about same mulligan rules but after the mulligan you draw some cards
I picked up this precon. Basically, I win too often in my pod. I think this deck will be super fun to play unmodified as a challenge to try and win at least once with every win con.
Stop winning
21:16 damn go off crim
poker mulligan, draw your opening 7, put x cards on the bottom and draw up to your starting hand minus 1
How is cawblade not the first thought for blue white at the pro level?
Everyone forgot about Angels secret Lair commander deck