Thanks again for producing such great and relevant content. A lot of people read a headline printed online and lose all critical reasoning and sense of tempered rationality. Others are inspired by fear to change their lifestyle to some degree of harm or detriment. Evidence-based content producers like you are truly doing the community a public service!
@@nicknorwitzPhD Well done Nick, this is a very good analysis. I watched Layne's video a few days ago and was so frustrated with the lack of…Inteligence. He mentions that people nitpick with concerns over oxidized omega-6 intake, which in some cases can sit in fryers for weeks, then screams, "human randomized control trial," that point to studies that substituted SFA with either fresh oil or foods higher in PUFAs. He must be doing this on purpose for engagement because I can not believe someone with a PhD could be this stupid.
Saw a new Endocrinologist yesterday. She told me eating meat is causing me inflammation and is very unhealthy for me. Said it's backed up by science. Also tried to push a high vegetable diet and plant protein. Wouldn't listen to me when I said I've lost 30 lbs, returning to my highschool weight, sleeping better, and having no more joint pain. I said, that's where we disagree. Seed oils, carbs and sugar caused my problems and she needs to catch up on her information. I fired her.
Wow, as I have watched you this last year, you have had a dramatic change and maturation of your delivery. It is so great! Slower delivery and one can really think about what you are saying as you present it due to your pacing. I just wanted to congratulate you. It is so great to see your presentation skills just blossoming!
Have you read "Dark Calories" by Dr. Catherine Shanahan? She certainly makes the distinctions you are flagging. It's the deepest and most complete research (incredibly well-referenced) I've ever seen. She's making the point about the predominance of highly processed seed oils and meticulously walks you through the history of how it infiltrated the American food supply.
Great video, as always, Nick. I love the way you defined this, because if I had gone into this with my definition, I would have been quite confused. I use the broader definition of the type of fat alone, without necessity for heating or oxidation (so, I would evaluate those separately). Also love your point about consumption is not equal to those levels found in tissue. I have heard the RCT argument before, and while I generally agree, I'm still looking for a plausible explanation for why many RCTs would indicate a neutral or beneficial effect of seed oil consumption and then we'd somehow suspect long-term consumption would lead to deleterious effects (I suppose one could argue the tissue levels being the issue, but that still seems like there's a large burden of proof necessary before we demonize seed oils); I don't buy that aspect, although I agree that relying exclusively on RCTs is short sighted, overall. Anyway, wonderful video, as usual. You rock.
Thanks Nick. Your opinion is always respected and appreciated! Regarding your comment on RCT, I do think tissue levels can play a factor. See the 2019 transgenic mouse study and let me know your thoughts. That said, even if it's not just tissue levels, I'd expect one would need at least several months to see an effect, and a broad set of markers. There's too much noise in things like CRP. So a broad cytokine panel and pre/post DEXA scans on a calorie and protein and fat and carb matched diets for, say 6 months, in a feeding trial with a decent separation in % PUFA, ideally trading PUFA for MUFA rather than saturated fat. You can image why this would be difficult to conduct. Furthermore, even then, I wouldn't generalize from high to low carb contexts, nor MetS/obesity to lean/metabolically healthy. That said, I think for a meager $25 Million we could do the definitive study. RFK Jr has orders of magnitude more $. So...
I approach vegetable oil as a non-food. I'm not afraid of Omega6 as part of real food. I have also solved most of my aging problems with this rule (insulin resistance), besides low carb. However, nuance is not always the best road while recovering from insulin resistance. True or false, excluding vegetable oil-rich food is an important step that brings real food back into the picture. Excluding food with vegetable oil helps to make that step. It helps you persevere. Thanks Nick.
Great info and important clarification of what seed olis are and which should be avoided. As an added twist on fryer oil, it is a frightening thing to read the box label the 5-gallon carboys of these oils come in. In addition to how they are produced, fryer oils also contain a stunning array of chemical compounds to deal "life" extension against water, salt, sugars, and flavor chemicals that are present in the processed foods cooked in them - yes, that includes your french fries, mozzarella bits, and jalapeño poppers, doughnuts, etc. These components would cause the rapid breakdown of any oil that is not so treated. A further indictment of these particular fryer oils is that it is impossible to make mayonnaise using them (not that anyone should!): the oil is so perfectly engineered to hold at temperature for long periods and overcome degradation that it cannot function as a "normal" oil. It will not emulsify with egg yolks, even in a commercial mixer or blender.
For what its worth, you have the best content on TH-cam within this space in both raw data, method of presentation that makes it easy to understand and professional demeanor... in my spectator opinion of course.
Very balanced analysis, loved it! The big problem in my point of view is the hack of human appetite regulation by combining fructose with seed oils, both impairing appetite regulation in brain level by different mechanisms. Once normal human behaviour with food is disrupted, anything can happen. It’s the perfect storm in a world of unprecedent abundance.
And get lots of oxidized cholesterol plus LC saturated fats which will greatly hinder your liver's ability to process LDL. As we know, LDL is one of the strongest long term clinical predictive factor for CVDs. Great gamble to your health, if you assume keto diet will uniquely save you from outcomes on every other dietary patterns.
❤ you are my go to for health now . Feeling so much better , healing . Can't find a gp that ( despite my good health ) doesn't obsess on my cholesterol and become overtly hostile and resort to scare tactics. I have a panic and anxiety disorder and what they say and the way they say it dysregulates my nervous system for weeks. Do no harm means nothing . It's just about a number and drugs . Thank you for helping me make thoughtful choices about my health ❤
Hello Dr. Nick, great video! Coming from the restaurant industry, fryer oil is a matter of economics, it`s the cost over health for sure! In the keto world I use a quality butter, olive oil or avocado oil for their smoke points for sautéing. Early on, MCT oil was a thing with keto, adding to coffee, with butter and heavy cream to maintain ketosis. A bit of over kill, but then again MCT oil prices went through the roof and ending that trend. The price points for high end seed oils drive people to the highly processed oils that are garbage and shouldn`t use.
Really appreciate the breakdown and nuance here for the subject. Going to make sure to talk these things over too with some that I know avoid it like the plague. I think the main thing should always be simply prioritizing Whole Foods that work well with your unique physiology
Thank you for this video. I use organic cold-pressed high-oleic sunflower oil for cooking (in small amounts), because it is very rich in vit. E. It also has a higher smoke point than EVOO (which I don't really like...) Waiting for you to address the Neu5Gc issue 😊
Well thought out, but missing a few key points. LA generates more oxidative stress (damage) in mitochondria when used for energy production. It is actively deselected as an energy source compared to SFA and MUFA. Hence, utility is limited, and therefore intake should be limited relative to other fats. It is essential, but a few grams per day is adequate.
Mechanistically. But unfortunately we will never know the truth. There will never be a long term human RCT's (lock and key/ metabolic ward with birth till death participants) proving anything in regards to anything. Would be great to create control towns / villages for such studies.
@@DrAJ_LatinAmerica Just use heuristics and add some more plausible points: Look at the consumption of PUFA / Linoleic acid 100 years ago, look at the rise throughout the last decades, look at the percentage of LA in body fat.
Consider this- whole grass fed cow's milk has about 3% of its caloric content provided from PUFA. Moderately fatty steak is similarly about 3% as well. Chicken eggs and fatty fish are closer to 10% on average, although pasture/wild is lower still- in the case of wild fatty fish the w3 content can be many times greater than w6. I think these as good benchmarks to see there is no real basis to eat large amounts of it. For a moderately active man eating about 2400 calories a day a 20g maximum of PUFA is already putting them at 7.5% of daily calories which is already likely double than what they need in comparison to other land mammals including primates, and even approaching marine animal levels. PUFA in general and specifically w6's are only meant to be consumed and synthesised in minimal amounts needed to sustain normal metabolic processes and maintenance, although it may be a bit beneficial in higher quantities for infants. IMO, anything more than this is asking for potential long term problems and any benefit they may bring in terms of ketosis can also be gained from MUFA/SFA. We need PUFA as constituents and precursors to the body and bodily processes, not as energy. We have enough data that peroxidation of these have bad biochemical outcomes, even if quickly converted to ketones and even in a healthy person with endogenous antioxidant systems working well, peroxidation of PUFA will still occur in small amounts and will only get worse as ageing and general poor health and/or diet starts to manifest (let alone if they have already manifested themselves for years or decades). Broken metabolisms and end products of peroxidation, resulting ferroxidation etc. are large contributors endothelial damage, pancreatic cell damage, brain damage, and virtually all systems of the body and a large cause of all chronic disease and death. Carbohydrates/hyperinsulinemia/glycation is one arm of the enemy, and the other arm is this, albeit a little less of an immediate concern. Why not just eat animals/animal products and get what you need perfectly bioavailable in virtually the exact ratio it exists in nature to sustain living beings that are infinitely more similar to you than a walnut?! Is there any benefit to getting these nutrients from plants other than the fact it's cheaper than if it's from an animal? Are the potential consequences worth it?
I agree with most of what you said. I personally eat lots of meat. But I think there are still at least 3 reasons to eat vegetables. 1. modern livestock industry is not your friend. Lots of toxins are found from meat especially animal fats simply because many toxins are hydrophobic compounds. 2. Some nutrients are only available from plants like phytonutrients and some antioxidants. 3. You may not necessarily need Veges. But many of your gut microbs do. It is okay if you only eat meat and therefore cultivate a different bacterial composition. But from what I know so far, many good bacteria in our gut like to eat fibers.
I have no issues eating walnuts or pecans or tahini. If I eat food cooked in canola oil and the like, I get inflammation of my joints and also symptoms similar to a UTI. This is every single time, whether I know if I'm being fed seed oils or not. There is nuance, but store bought seeds oils for cooking are suspect in my opinion
59 years of eating the wrong things and I'm eating Carnivore and haven't felt this good in decades. Highly processed seed oils have a half-life of about 690 days in your body. Therefore, it's going to take about 8-10 yrs to get my levels down to where they should be. I won't be consuming highly processed seed oils ever again. I may consider cold pressed seed oils but if the cost/benefit ratio isn't worth it then I'll live without them. I'm 61 and have been on Carnivore for 14 months. Excruciating right knee arthritis and lower back inflammation went away in 6-8 weeks. I lost 35 lbs on Keto but those issues didn't clear up until I cut out plants and seed oils.
If you say you cut out plants, does that mean you dont eat veggies anymore? That doesnt sound right. Also: Please iterate what counts to "highly processed seed oils"?
Thanks for the great video, Nick. I always appreciate the nuance. Would you consider doing a video exploring different types of seed oils, particularly focusing on their manufacturing processes? For instance, comparing cold-pressed methods to solvent extraction and bleaching. While JFK Jr. didn’t explicitly mention these details, I suspect that’s what he was alluding to-and it would have been helpful if he had clarified that. There’s a lot more nuance to unpack here, which is why I also personally lean toward whole food fats, with the exception of high-quality, cold-pressed olive and avocado oils from trusted sources.
I am reminded of Dr. Pekka Puska, who transformed Finland by convincing Finns to eat more whole plants and less saturated fat. The cornerstone of a massive government public education initiative was teaching Finnish housewives to cook with Canola (rapeseed) oil. In all fairness, Canola oil is higher in monounsaturated fat than in polyunsaturated fat (~70% mono, the rest poly- and saturated) so, I'm cheating a little bit. Honestly, I don't think the oil is nearly so important as the damage to the oil - repeated re-heating, contamination from extractive residues and burnt food, preservatives, and oxidation. The most worrisome part of seed oils is how hard it is to smell oxidative damage. By comparison, it's easy to tell when a saturated fat goes rancid. I LOVE your content, Nick! Keep up the great work.
@@nicknorwitzPhD You are welcome ("Seedless to say" in and of itself is worthy of an accolade. I predict that this tendency will only grow worse once you become a dad.
You mix up up rancidification and oxidation. Oxidation is one possible path of rancidification. Saturated fatty acids can simply not be oxidized in the same way - you clearly don't understand what you're talking about, yet reach to conclusions about the topic you don't understand. Dunning Kruger greets you.
@@YaYippieYeah Okee dokee. Yes, I do understand the difference, I simply didn't bother to reach for perfect scientific accuracy in a brief post. Saturated and unsaturated refer to the extent to which the carbon atoms in the molecule of fatty acid are linked or bonded (saturated) to hydrogen atoms. Zero double bonds = saturated (i.e., stearic acid). One double bond = monounsaturated (i.e., oleic acid). Two or more double bonds = polyunsaturated (i.e., linoleic acid). The more double bonds, the greater the risk of oxidation. My point is for the average person it is much harder to detect oxidation and consequent rancidity in polyunsaturated oils. Rancidity (obviously, not the same as oxidation) is much more obvious in saturated fat. Emily Post greets you.
2 questions: Which seeds oils are stable enough at high heat to cook with? How can one go about consuming moga 6 without it causing an imbalance with the onega 3 in his body?
At 4:09, the infographic says "Omega-6 (AA) to omega-3 (EPA)" ratio. Does it mean only those two fatty acids were measured? I.e. the measurement didn't include LA (or ALA/DHA, for that matter)? Was it a tissue biopsy or a serum measurement?
My n=1 on seed oils I learned is in the dose. In my 20’s I learned from eating a lot of fried food… my gut didn’t like more than one serving in a 3 day period. More than that, I was in excruciating pain on my right side from my liver to my appendix. #1 is dose. #2 is smell & taste. If I go to a restaurant and can smell the oil… I do not order anything that is cooked in that oil. And if I taste the oil in cooked food, I won’t eat it. The taste tells you how over used and rancid the oil is.
But if you don’t taste it , then it has no effect. Taste test is not that accurate ….to me it sounds like some of your issue has become psychosomatic…still real results but impacted by more than just the physical nature of
Balanced perspective as usual, Nick. My personal approach is to not add fat of any kind to anything I eat. If you want fat, eat a whole food that has plenty of fat in it in the first place. Pretty hard to go wrong with this method. Mind you, my whole food definition does include cheese, Greek yogurt and cream :)
Thank you for the video! One thing I’d like to add is that when you heat those 'seed oils,' they produce toxic compounds like n-hexanal and crotonaldehyde. Also, it’s only certain seed oils that produce these compounds when heated to high temperatures
But Nick, Lane Norton knows the science! He cites a study where 10 guys ate keto for a week and ate low calorie standard American for a week and didnt lose any extra weight. Sceince settled!!! 10 guys for a whole week? What more could you ask for?!?!
This is actually quite prominent over here in Libya as seed oils (Sunflower & Corn Mainly) in of themselves if used in a generally healthy metabolic context, they'd not demonstrate the damage or be worthy of "Poison" as a title. It comes down to the bigger picture of the person's eating habits as a whole, rather than them consuming seed oils being the sole reason they're obese or metabolically unhealthy. The reason why it's prominent is that the diet heavily relies on processed & refined carbs like rice, pasta, flour, white bread and fast food in combination with processed seed oils that have quality as their least prioritized aspect. It's become quite a problem and most health care experts here rarely ever look to a person's diet and lifestyle because they're so eager to pump them full of blood pressure medication instead of telling them to watch their Vitamin D, Potassium, Sodium and Magnesium levels in order to regulate the Renin/Angiotensin hormone cycle and not have it spiral out of control, as an example.
@@Yasharahla7 In more detail, it's called RAS (Renin-Angiotensin System) or RAAS (Renin-Angiotensin-Adolsetrone System). It's a hormone system that regulates blood pressure (managing levels of potassium and sodium in the blood) as well, fluid and electrolyte balance.
@@Yasharahla7Dr Ben Bikman explains that in detail on his most recent lecture on his TH-cam channel ‘Ben Bikman PhD’. The lecture is called ‘The unexpected link between salt-regulating hormones and metabolic health’. The previous lecture on anti hypertensive medications is also relevant. Hope that helps.
This is like the Saladino carb situation , but with seed oils instead of carbs.(Saladino's intense exercise regime enabling him to be ok with certain carbs ,equivalent to omega 6's being ok for someone with a very non-standard staple diet.)
I think Saladino still didn't discover his problem and this is substitution which won't let him find out, being in addiction he won't ever change until maybe it get a toll enough
Your videos are great! Thank you for taking the time and putting out the effort to do such a great job. A 75-year-old keto diet enthusiast (and scientist in the biological sciences.)
Nick what do you think about how little we actually know what interactions any of the thousands chemical compounds in a given plant might have on human body ? We can see how even clearly toxic things like cigarettes take such a long time to manifest in symptomatic illness. I'm always cautious of the fact that plants produce compounds for their own survival and what is good for a walnut tree and its seeds might not be that good for my chemistry, in the end we are not that much alike. On top of that plants clearly have mechanisms to protect themselves from predators, like a hard shells, spikes and even toxic chemical compounds. To me Phytosterols seem super frightening they are so similar to our cholesterol so much so they get incorporated as part of our cell membranes but do not have the same chemical properties, luckily they are absorbed at a extremely low rate by most people, but still why do we consider those things to be part of the healthy balanced diet, when they are clearly non essential for humans ?
Fantastic video on a hotly debated issue that is clearly not well understood by proponents on both sides. As usual, too many people looking for simple, single action answers to very complex questions.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Next can you provide the nuanced differentiation between "smart ass" and "dumb ass". For the benefit of science.
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I have no stress response avoiding seed oils. I don't desire them at all. It's completely natural once I got rid of them. Avoiding junk for a month is challenging but then it becomes smooth sailing.
I think it's in almost everything if you don't make the food yourself, so it's not really that cut and dry. Imagine saying no to eating with friends because of seed oil or other such examples.
this is good and I appreciate you wading into this thorny topic. I'm not so sure we should be giving up on RCTs shedding light. If these things cause inflammation and oxidative stress, there should be ways of measuring that in the shorter term even without waiting years to see who lives and who dies. on some level, we have to acknowledge the lack of RCT evidence really IS a weakness in the argument against seed oils. I have an open mind to the idea that these are harmful, and personally opt for less processed (real food) oils when I can, like butter/ghee, evoo, avocado oil. The crowding out of omega 3 by massive intake of omega 6 is probably a real thing. But I can't help but suspect there's a guilt-by-association (and a lot of wooo) going on with seed oils, that they're kind of harmless by themselves, and the real culprit is refined carbohydrate and to a smaller degree non-food chemicals.
Thank you for the video. So, you eat expensive. I can't afford to eat salmon three times a week. I can't afford macadamia oil as a weekly purchase. I suspect the olive oil I do buy is not very good olive oil, but it's what I can afford. I do what I can, and I use your advice as guidance.
Always do what you can :). That said, a diet including those foods you mentioned doesn't need to break the bank. While a good EVOO can cost a decent amount money per bottle, when you look at it from an energy/$ value it's not that bad. Same with macadamia and fatty fish. Plus, tinned sardines can be dirt cheap. Anyone who indulges in - say - Starbucks can afford to eat reasonably well.
An easy rule for purchasing unadulterated olive oil is to turn the bottle around and look for the California Olive Oil Council (COOC) certification. Say what you will about crazy California, but they do take their olive oil seriously and they do insure that the bottle of olive oil actually contains olives. So, any olive oil bottled out of California will meet their strict guidelines and make sure that it has the "Certified Extra Virgin" seal to insure it has the lowest percentage of 'defects' as they call it. And also make sure it says "Cold Pressed" rather than 'Refined'. With that said, I've found that the best brand that meets the nexus of Price\Quality\Availability is the "California Olive Ranch" brand olive oil (not affiliated) which is readily available in most grocery stores. They have an expensive bottle that has the COOC stamp on it because 85% of the olives are sourced directly from California. But they also have a "Global Blend' which is about half the cost and uses 10% of olives sourced from California, 85% from Tunisia, and the remainder from South America. While it doesn't have the COOC cert label on it, it does have the Certified Extra Virgin stamp which means it contains less than .5 grams per 100 grams of adulterants.
@heftyjo2893 yes, but those oils out of California may also be high in pthalates., even when bottled in glass because the oil comes in contact with plastic during processing.
Thank you Nick for making the distinctions of the key terms. It would be very helpful if you can provide scientific evidences to determine how much of the PUFA being used for body parts (cell membrane, hormones, etc) which could mean weak spots for damages compared with stable saturated fats. I was not able to find videos on this topic.
Sorry, not exactly sure on your question. Are you asking the relative % of say membrane lipids and how diet shifts those values? If so, I'm not aware of great data in large part because it's hard to get reliable long-term data on intake.
@@nicknorwitzPhD I mean saturated fat is much less easy to be oxidized than PUFA. So, if the body uses non-saturated fats for body tissue or hormones, they may create risks down the road. However, I am not sure if fats are first broken down and then being used as in the case of protein.
Being heterozygous for Sitosterolemia, I’ve been told to avoid plant sterols. I can’t find any studies supporting this. Do you know of any or do you have any recommendations? A video on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
From a curious, reasonable and nuanced individual, I thank you for your perspective. Much appreciated as I have been avoiding many of the seed oils like they carry plague. Now I will only avoid them like they are recommended mRNA injections. 😉
Thanks for this video. My family have been eating "Knife Cooking oil" for years. Only selling in Malaysia and Singapore. "Blend of Premium Oils: a refined blend of palm olein, peanut oil, and sesame oil." Because of the overloaded info online, I've been thinking this oil can be the reason we gain fats. Still not sure what palm olein oil can do to our body. If palm is consider fruit and not seed.
Keto for 5 years and carnivore for 1 year now. My carnivore doctor recommended I stop eating "dirty" keto. Avoid almond flour and avocado oil...Omega 6/3 ratio reduced from 9:1 to 6:1 in my carnivore year. LP(a) reduced naturally from 88 to 44 (no medications).
Good chat! Your content is always enlightening. Your deliver is sooooooooooo much better than it was in the beginning. Did you switch to decaf? 😄😄 Seriously, I had conversation with a colleague today who said consuming vegetable oil would make you go blind. I smiled and nodded because I didn't really have a viable response. I will likely forward a link to this video. Thx for what you do.
@@tomfilbey On your recommendation I watched a few of his videos. He lost me at, "We're going to look more at the evidence than the biochemistry." (I heard, "No science.") Then he presented a compelling (good speaker), but anecdotal (lots of charts - many of which were prepared by his organization) presentation about vegetable oils causing most of the nutritional problems and chronic diseases in the world today. There was not even a nod towards any other possible cause. No thank you.
Absolutely spot on video. Not all oil the same. And to add, big corporation processed seeds oils are very different from high quality Italian artisan cold pressed extra virgin oil. Plus the smell and taste are of a whole other level. Yes, unfortunately so is the price.
It is a tricky landscape to try to navigate and understand. I often hear both sides and they seem to contradict each other. What I have learned is to go with what my experience is, and what I have come to know. I feel much better without these "highly processed seed oils" and excessive carbs in my diet.
Nick fast forward 30 years (for yourself) and you might like to ADD, and consider the Linoleic 9-Hode, 13-Hode causes of CVD? Just saying - this was proven in a study made in the 60's that everyone seems to have forgotten - it is very important for 50+ year olds!
When I go to restaurants, I pull my seed oil allergy card (can be downloaded on the internet) and tell them to cook only in butter since restaurants olive oils are 90% seed oils. Sometimes I bring my own olive oil in a small bottle and put it over my boiled fish or salads. 😂😅 I don’t mind natural seed oils and consume them regularly…love walnuts and macadamian nuts as well as Nutella nuts 😂🤣 (sometimes) By the way, love your channel!!👏
Well even nuts can be problematic ...years ago i fell in love with walnuts as a snack. I would buy huge bags on them and would be snacking on them all the time. Then i started to have random attacks of pain in my joints, including hands. It was getting worse and worse and worse. After lot of sessions with webmd symptom checker the rheumatoid arthritis was at the top. That got later confirmed. But during the very long 3 month wait for first appointment with rheumatologist i have seen videos about people getting rid of that pain through elimination diets and such. So i thought hmmm.... what have i changed that could have resulted in this anoying pain attacks? I stopped with eating all those wallnuts and BAM. Pain free. I havent touched nuts for a year and then was very carefull with them. Now i am somewhat starting to love them again. How much am i playing with fire?
Well its not so much a walnut issue as it is your inability to moderate intake. I have friends who can eat 3 or 4 spoonfuls of ben&jerrys icecream, put it back in the fridge and not touch it for a week. I on the other hand will eat the whole thing until Im sick. I dont habe self control when I eat foods for pleasure
i fixed my histamine intolerance problem which got worst when overeating histamine sources as cacao now I can eat everything that flared this condition instantly as fermented foods but walnuts are those exceptions giving instant allergic reaction in mouth When it all flared worst it looked like arthritis with inability to straighten fingers after waking up and great pain of wrists. took a long while to figure the real cause I fixed it with B vitamins, plain KEFIR and antihistamine strains in probiotic. additionally fixing dairy intolerance histamine, gut dysbiosis, allergic reactions, B vitamins supply and ratio, methylation status and homocysteine, inflammation level are all connected and all also influencing brain health and functions I crave Omega 6 as fake nuts - the peanuts from time to time but eating whole small can has sure backlash a few hours later... while eating whole bar of 70% cacao bar does nothing except sugar effects now addressing poor folate methylation genes (minor one not of 2 severe ones)
@@BenjaminKuruga On the other hand that ice cream will crystallize out it's water content and taste won't even be worth it's negatives if left for weeks between spoonfuls
@@nicknorwitzPhDn=1 is ideal and probably the future, but constantly ordering bloods is too expensive for most of us. Presumably allot of the marker testing could be done by machines at some point, but in the mean time people are left guessing and being guided by n=2K+ (with or without good design)
Agree... I'd expect one would need at least several months to see an effect, and a broad set of markers. There's too much noise in things like CRP. So a broad cytokine panel and pre/post DEXA scans on a calorie and protein and fat and carb matched diets for, say 6 months, in a feeding trial with a decent separation in % PUFA, ideally trading PUFA for MUFA rather than saturated fat. You can image why this would be difficult to conduct. Furthermore, even then, I wouldn't generalize from high to low carb contexts, nor MetS/obesity to lean/metabolically healthy. That said, I think for a meager $25 Million we could do the definitive study. RFK Jr has orders of magnitude more $.
Kudos to Nick. Best assessment of Seed Oil Hypothesis I've seen. Helps that he explains that seed oils are type of PFU, which are both condemned and praised by health social media producers, and causes huge confusion. Whole subject needs much more research. I personally try to use minimal heat and browning when cooking too minimized oxidation of unsaturated fatty acids. Also it is informative that one can test actual omega-6/3 ratio in the body. I am encouraged to get this tested, and hope there will be much more research to clarify its impact on health, and so-called "metabolic disease" and mitochondria health.
Hi Nick, thanks for the great video! I have a question about something you mentioned around the 7:50 mark: you said, “...in the context of very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets, polyunsaturated fat and Omega-6 are very efficiently converted into ketone bodies like beta-hydroxybutyrate.” Is this supported by literature? If so, could you point us in the right direction? Or is this based on your personal experience, like in another video where you mentioned that combining tahini (as a source of Omega-6) with a 24-hour fast increased your ketone levels to 6 mmol/L? Additionally, have you observed if tahini alone (without fasting) also increases ketone levels? Thanks in advance for clarifying!
Look up Harry Serpanos Are the omega 3/6 ratios in pork dangerous? He says higher 6/3 ratios naturally exist in parts of body and that PUFA itself isn't any problem but it's oxydation and deuterium it contains, also that some omega 6s have also healing properties and used by athletes. Pork fat being least oxidised by heating fat
As a borderline LMHR with a high LDL, I have been advised to stay away from fats such as coconut and butter and incorporate more PUFA/MUFA oils such as seed oils. I've been informed that seed oils can lower LDL thereby reducing the risk of cardiovascular disease.
The current medical community establishment seems overly concerned about total LDL measurement without adequately differentiating its subcategories or focusing enough on insulin levels and insulin resistance.
My N=1, I would get insane acne whenever I ate any substancial (50g+/day)amount of nuts (peanuts, almonds, cashews) and get very low energy on a "normal" diet. On keto, I can eat that 50g without these effects. I don't know where is my threshhold is now, but I think that I'll never hit it as long as I don't become keto nut-etarian or that I chug rapeseed oil like Nick did NOT suggest doing
Nick made a very naughty error toward the end of the excellent video when he listed three oils that are stable at higher cooking temperatures. He included olive oil when I trust he meant avocado oil. As most of you know, EVOO smokes at and turns to toxic trans fat around 300 degrees, so don’t cook on stove above a 2 or 3 out of 10 (just above Low), whereas avocado oil doesn’t smoke and become harmful until closer to 500 degrees. That said, because I buy Dr. Gundry’s super high polyphenol EVOO from Morocco, which is one of the healthiest lipids one can consume from a plant, I do fry my eggs and bake okra and other vegetables with half EVOO and half a RedBloom chili pepper avocado oil (which improves the gut microbiome per FDA approved results, the first such “food”), but at as low a temp as possible given my schedule constraints (since lower temp takes longer but protects nutrients and polyphenols more). Drs. Nick Norwitz, Ford Brewer, Robert Lustig, Annette Bosworth (“Dr. Boz”), William Li, Mindy Pelz, Mark Hyman, David Perlmutter, Eric Westman, Diary of a CEO guests, Zoe, Levels, Jesse Chappus, and yes, even the occasionally misinterpreting Thomas DeLauer, Drs. Sten Ecknerg, Eric Berg and Nourished by Science have informed me since April 2024 as to the evidence and truth, as best we can tell for now, of metabolic health science. Thanks to these folks doing the research for us and sharing their analysis and opinions, in just 6 months I lost 30 lbs. of belly fat, mostly visceral and fatty liver, and only have a stubborn couple pounds left but have the perfect waist for my height once again, while taking my at risk triglycerides and fasted serum glucose levels from At Risk (150 and 93, respectively, as 14 year avg., and in High Risk range at times), down to healthy levels, and same for fasted insulin, while raising my HDL from low 40s to 55 and headed higher, and convincing me to get ApoB, CAC and based on these indicating some atherosclerosis, a coronary CT angiogram that shows mild stenosis in LAD (“the widow maker”) from soft plaque, and therefore, beginning a moderate daily dose of Crestor, which has reduced in just 3 months my ApoB (and LDL-c, which doesn’t matter, unlike the VLDL and triglycerides and HDL-c tests) by about 50%, so from high or very high down to borderline at risk, which I expect will fall further. Yes, I realize it’s the small dense lipoproteins that lead to soft plaque and atherosclerosis, and until I get my HDL over 60 and triglycerides below 70, and ApoB I “normal” range, and fasted insulin and HbA1c below 5.0, all of which I expect within a year or so, I’m going to stay on this moderate dose Rosuvastatin, and then move down to low dose few days a week as Dr. Brewer indicates for his patients. That or if I see soft plaque is gone and calcified from a coronary CT angiogram with AI, something that may not be affordable/worthwhile. Thanks of you read this, and careful cooking with EVOO. It’s best with salads and dips, especially with organic apple cider vinegar that helps keep blood glucose and insulin levels lower.
It wasn't an error. I just said what oils I used. I didn't say I heat EVOO. I prefer avocado oil, macadamia oil and ghee for cooking. Happy for you on your journey!
Although olive oil’s smoking point is low, because of its high antioxidant content, it oxidizes upon heat much less than some oils with a higher smoking point. So it’s totally acceptable (and delicious) to cook with olive oil, as long as extreme heat is not used, which is in itself unhealthy even in the absence of olive oil.
The production of seed oils includes some heavy industrial processing steps or so goes the complaint of many folks who hate seed oils. And, for people like me who avoid eating most fish (for multiple reasons), fish oil is the best way to get EPA/DHA. Oddly, you never hear anyone going on about how fish oil is made. I'm certain it is every bit as gross as seed oil production. There are some outfits that try to set quality standards for fish oils, though they may not be very influencial. But, I haven't seen any equivalent quality standards for seed oils. Are they out there and I've just missed finding them?
A person could actually drink a single shot glass qty of pure deuterium at one time, without any short or long term harm and that would represent the quantity of deuterium you'd get from a decade or more of consumption of raw seed oils. Dosage matters, both short term and over a lifetime. Many people worried about deuterium levels in seed oil will happily consume a toxic dose of fructose daily (more than 8 g is toxic). I know of someone who drank 1 liter of deuterium, and that made them slightly ill temporarily (no apparent long term harm to date), but a shot glass qty presents no short or long term harm and the amount that could be present in raw seed oils is entirely irrelevant. The harm caused by deuterium is in it displacing h2o in the cells and altering cellular reactions (but so long as h2o is present in dominant qty in the cells, those reactions will largely proceed as normal) so yes it is harmful in qty and no I don't recommend consuming a shot glass of it daily. To put this in perspective though, if it was a choice between a 16 oz glass of orange juice per day and a shot glass of deuterium per day, the negative health consequences of long term consumption between the two would be a toss up with deuterium likely being the less harmful of the two (at that qty) over the long term.
1. The US is the world's largest exporter of seed oils; 2. the US government provides billions in subsidies to produce seed oils (corn and soy); 3. the US dietary guidelines are written by the agriculture department (USDA) for some reason; 4. the US dietary guidelines claim seed oils are awesome. What a coincidence...
This all helps quite a lot. I take from it to focus on fats in natural contexts (in foods), and to prefer the saturated and mono unsaturated fats for their stability when cooking. That seems like a safe policy as all the biochem and physio mechanisms are worked out.
@@nicknorwitzPhD But again your audience is regular people, not science community. In the streets, seed oils = industrial sunflower or rapeseed oils. And these are the seed oils accessible to most of us, and consumed by most people on earth. Just saying ....
Is it true Omega 6 from seed oils can take 2-4 years to clear from your system? If this is true, can you correct your Omega6:3 ratio by eliminating the seed oils and allowing time to bring down the 6's while also increasing sources of Omega 3 vs supplementing with what might be a questionable supplement?
Thanks so much for this much needed video. Very interesting that the ratio of O 3:6 eaten gets reflected in the body composition very differently. What is the body doing with the rest of the O-6? If it's modified will it still be picked up in these tests? Also, are you familiar with Prof Chris Kobe's very thorough work which paints a rather horrifying picture of O-6 and its worse breakdown products like Malondelaldehyde ( and 100s more). Also grain/ corn fed pigs and hens can end up with higher levels of O6 in the flesh than seed oils! How "protected" is this content compared to o6 in seed oils? 2 takeaways from your video 1. It's ok to eat whole food containing O6 as other factors contained in these foods prevent the O6 being damaged/oxidised. 2.Our metabolism is different so we can tolerate different levels/ratios of O6. Do you think it's important to note however that even with whole foods, long storage and heat can turn the O6/3 content into undesirable oxidation products so freshness and temperature is important? Thanks again!
Your body burns some excess omega 6 so that probably balances the ratio to a point. Excess o-6 while in a (large) calorie surplus is probably part of the issue, as that would lead to storing o-6 which would negatively alter the composition of body fat. Also huge o-6:3 ratios might overwhelm whatever omega 3 you manage to intake as o-6 competes with o-3.
Interesting topics provided. However I would add some important factors here. 1. seed oil impact of health in studies includes TOTOX number. This parameter is crucial, because we have cut-off values from RCTs and many sold ols in supermarkets have too high TOTOX at shelf, not to mention when heated on frying pan. 2. In US trans fats are regulated, BUT in Europe and other parts ot the world - not. So for instance prof. Cichosz has studied trans fat content of oils sold in supermakrets in Poland and found that all tested samples contained trans fats between 20 to 60% of bottle volume.... That is why it is not the best idea to buy seed oils afterall....
Dr. Paul Mason seems to think that shelf life is the critical element in whether seed oils and even fish oils oxidize and produce reactive oxygen species. Apparently, this oxidization is measurable across many brands of fish oils and krill oils and are significant. What say you? MBS,VMD
@Nick Norwitz Hi Nick. Thanks for the interesting video! In concern of omega 3 fatty acids being damaged by oxidation, do you think the astaxanthin in salmon meaningfully prevents lipid oxidation in cooked salmon? And is that one of the reasons you choose it?
That's an awesome omega 3 to 6; ratio. Mine is 1:7. This is the current focus of my N=1 studies. Trying to determine what dosing and lifestyle modes I need to get it to 1:1. I do eat a significant quantity of raw sunflower and pumpkin seeds (to insure sufficient magnesium) along with a lot of raw nuts.
Excellent analysis of a controversial topic. I assume all fast food fries are oxidized. The issue is knowing which store bought "vegetable" oils are oxidized. Too bad there isn't a test one can do in the kitchen of us mere mortals.
Your slower explanations are helpful. I am not as smart as you, and need some processing time after you present a series of facts and their possible ramifications. Pausing at certain points keeps people involved. Thanks.
I'm curious about links between brain damage and linoleic acid. Is it oxidative stressors which link high linoleic acid intake to lower cognitive function or is it something else about linoleic acid which has deleterious effects on cognitive functioning?
Dear Nick, could you make a video showing the optimal cooking temperatures for all the good oils you mentioned plus regular American butter, Kerrygold butter, and rendered tallow like the Wagyu beef tallow from the South Chicago company. Thank you, Carnivore Grandma 😀
The prevalence of regional ASCVD and presumably pre-clinical ASCVD seems to correlate with the associated dietary omega 6 to 3 ratio. It would be interesting to dig into the possible mechanisms and the notion of damaged oils confounding the benefits of dietary omega 6 and contributing to ASCVD.
Please help me out here: my impression is that seed oils that are mechanically processed rather than extracted with hexane, and not heated, are OK. For example, expeller-pressed canola oil used in a salad dressing seems to be almost as good as olive oil used for the same purpose, at least nutritionally. Seed oils that are heated, though, should be largely avoided, because they oxidize very easily at higher temperatures, given their less stable molecular structure. And cheaper, low-quality seed oils, which tend to be extracted with petroleum-based chemical solvents like hexane, should be avoided at all costs. Do I have it about right?
@nicknorwitzPhD I think a really good video for you to make would be a recommendation for all the blood work tests that people should get. Personally I don't have a good primary care physician and I don't know how to find one. I would like to be able to request specific blood work. I follow low carb ketogenic whole food diet. Exercise regularly and feel great. Would like to know what blood work to do
What is best proportion for omega 6 to omega 3, I read and watch doctors say that 4:1 is best ratio but Nic say in video he have perfect score ratio with 1:1 I’m confused 🤔
You are great. You are smart. You are well informed. And you consistently bury the lede. Try putting your conclusion at the start. It would keep more of us awake for the explanations. I send this with goodwill.
There is plenty of omega 6 in both olive oil and avocado oil (for high heat uses), such that you would never need the more fragile seed oils for cooking or salads. The unmentioned problem with seed oil is the highly processed nature of their manufacture that almost guarantees that the beneficial factors in the original seeds probably won't survive.
Omega 6 content in evoo and avo oil is ~8-12% vs many classic industrial cooking oils with 30-50% … also point 1 was meant to address the discrepancy in definitions, including industrial processed highly oxidized oils.
What is your opinion of the common condemnation of seed oils for being highly processed -- seeds are ground, heated, treated with the solvent, hexane. Is expeller pressed canola any better than using the standard method?
Thanks again for producing such great and relevant content. A lot of people read a headline printed online and lose all critical reasoning and sense of tempered rationality. Others are inspired by fear to change their lifestyle to some degree of harm or detriment. Evidence-based content producers like you are truly doing the community a public service!
Thank you Aaron. I appreciate this :)
@@nicknorwitzPhD Well done Nick, this is a very good analysis. I watched Layne's video a few days ago and was so frustrated with the lack of…Inteligence. He mentions that people nitpick with concerns over oxidized omega-6 intake, which in some cases can sit in fryers for weeks, then screams, "human randomized control trial," that point to studies that substituted SFA with either fresh oil or foods higher in PUFAs.
He must be doing this on purpose for engagement because I can not believe someone with a PhD could be this stupid.
This video has certainly changed my thinking on the subject.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Which brand do you buy for fish oil capsules????
@@giomusah2155 Me? Nordic Naturals.
Saw a new Endocrinologist yesterday. She told me eating meat is causing me inflammation and is very unhealthy for me. Said it's backed up by science. Also tried to push a high vegetable diet and plant protein. Wouldn't listen to me when I said I've lost 30 lbs, returning to my highschool weight, sleeping better, and having no more joint pain. I said, that's where we disagree. Seed oils, carbs and sugar caused my problems and she needs to catch up on her information. I fired her.
Boom
Way to be!
They work for US
I would fire an accountant wkg with last yrs tax regs too.
Commonsense Here Ppl!!
👏👏👏
Instead of firing her you should demand to be tested for inflammatory markers.
I will, but not from her.
Yes, but the enigma fro me is that HIGH fibre is having beneficial effects..!(?) This ain't simple or black and white!
Wow, as I have watched you this last year, you have had a dramatic change and maturation of your delivery. It is so great! Slower delivery and one can really think about what you are saying as you present it due to your pacing. I just wanted to congratulate you. It is so great to see your presentation skills just blossoming!
Thanks Scott. I appreciate it. It’s a whole new skillset I’m enjoying developing
I also noticed this! If you deliver info that challenges your belief system it takes some time to process this data.
Have you read "Dark Calories" by Dr. Catherine Shanahan?
She certainly makes the distinctions you are flagging. It's the deepest and most complete research (incredibly well-referenced) I've ever seen. She's making the point about the predominance of highly processed seed oils and meticulously walks you through the history of how it infiltrated the American food supply.
Nick, I love the fact that you hit the contentious issues head-on.
I'm smart, not wise ;).
😂 So much like my son. Super smart though not the most diplomatic. The world needs more people like you! @@nicknorwitzPhD
Diplommacy is overrated.
Great video, as always, Nick. I love the way you defined this, because if I had gone into this with my definition, I would have been quite confused. I use the broader definition of the type of fat alone, without necessity for heating or oxidation (so, I would evaluate those separately). Also love your point about consumption is not equal to those levels found in tissue. I have heard the RCT argument before, and while I generally agree, I'm still looking for a plausible explanation for why many RCTs would indicate a neutral or beneficial effect of seed oil consumption and then we'd somehow suspect long-term consumption would lead to deleterious effects (I suppose one could argue the tissue levels being the issue, but that still seems like there's a large burden of proof necessary before we demonize seed oils); I don't buy that aspect, although I agree that relying exclusively on RCTs is short sighted, overall.
Anyway, wonderful video, as usual. You rock.
Thanks Nick. Your opinion is always respected and appreciated! Regarding your comment on RCT, I do think tissue levels can play a factor. See the 2019 transgenic mouse study and let me know your thoughts. That said, even if it's not just tissue levels, I'd expect one would need at least several months to see an effect, and a broad set of markers. There's too much noise in things like CRP. So a broad cytokine panel and pre/post DEXA scans on a calorie and protein and fat and carb matched diets for, say 6 months, in a feeding trial with a decent separation in % PUFA, ideally trading PUFA for MUFA rather than saturated fat. You can image why this would be difficult to conduct. Furthermore, even then, I wouldn't generalize from high to low carb contexts, nor MetS/obesity to lean/metabolically healthy. That said, I think for a meager $25 Million we could do the definitive study. RFK Jr has orders of magnitude more $. So...
I approach vegetable oil as a non-food. I'm not afraid of Omega6 as part of real food. I have also solved most of my aging problems with this rule (insulin resistance), besides low carb. However, nuance is not always the best road while recovering from insulin resistance. True or false, excluding vegetable oil-rich food is an important step that brings real food back into the picture. Excluding food with vegetable oil helps to make that step. It helps you persevere. Thanks Nick.
Outstanding discussion compressed in a short clip! Looking forward to the next one as always!
Cheers :).
Great info and important clarification of what seed olis are and which should be avoided. As an added twist on fryer oil, it is a frightening thing to read the box label the 5-gallon carboys of these oils come in. In addition to how they are produced, fryer oils also contain a stunning array of chemical compounds to deal "life" extension against water, salt, sugars, and flavor chemicals that are present in the processed foods cooked in them - yes, that includes your french fries, mozzarella bits, and jalapeño poppers, doughnuts, etc. These components would cause the rapid breakdown of any oil that is not so treated. A further indictment of these particular fryer oils is that it is impossible to make mayonnaise using them (not that anyone should!): the oil is so perfectly engineered to hold at temperature for long periods and overcome degradation that it cannot function as a "normal" oil. It will not emulsify with egg yolks, even in a commercial mixer or blender.
For what its worth, you have the best content on TH-cam within this space in both raw data, method of presentation that makes it easy to understand and professional demeanor... in my spectator opinion of course.
Very balanced analysis, loved it! The big problem in my point of view is the hack of human appetite regulation by combining fructose with seed oils, both impairing appetite regulation in brain level by different mechanisms. Once normal human behaviour with food is disrupted, anything can happen. It’s the perfect storm in a world of unprecedent abundance.
How poetic ⛈️
@ it’s my advertiser background calling 😁
Thanks for staying awesome Nick!
Always!
Nick is the best!!!
Just cook with butter, lard or tallow to avoid confusion.
And get lots of oxidized cholesterol plus LC saturated fats which will greatly hinder your liver's ability to process LDL. As we know, LDL is one of the strongest long term clinical predictive factor for CVDs. Great gamble to your health, if you assume keto diet will uniquely save you from outcomes on every other dietary patterns.
@ clueless. Oreo cookie lowers your LDL. So Treat yourself lol
@@sunwm2003 How does it imply LDL is not predictive clinical risk factor? It has nothing to do with it.
@@arth8265LDL is not a predictive risk factor if controlled for metabolic syndromes.
@ still you are clueless. Time to update your health knowledge. If you want to look its everywhere.
❤ you are my go to for health now .
Feeling so much better , healing . Can't find a gp that ( despite my good health ) doesn't obsess on my cholesterol and become overtly hostile and resort to scare tactics. I have a panic and anxiety disorder and what they say and the way they say it dysregulates my nervous system for weeks. Do no harm means nothing . It's just about a number and drugs .
Thank you for helping me make thoughtful choices about my health ❤
I'm sorry about your struggles. Happy you find me a useful resource :)
Hello Dr. Nick, great video! Coming from the restaurant industry, fryer oil is a matter of economics, it`s the cost over health for sure! In the keto world I use a quality butter, olive oil or avocado oil for their smoke points for sautéing. Early on, MCT oil was a thing with keto, adding to coffee, with butter and heavy cream to maintain ketosis. A bit of over kill, but then again MCT oil prices went through the roof and ending that trend. The price points for high end seed oils drive people to the highly processed oils that are garbage and shouldn`t use.
Really appreciate the breakdown and nuance here for the subject. Going to make sure to talk these things over too with some that I know avoid it like the plague. I think the main thing should always be simply prioritizing Whole Foods that work well with your unique physiology
Thank you for this video.
I use organic cold-pressed high-oleic sunflower oil for cooking (in small amounts), because it is very rich in vit. E. It also has a higher smoke point than EVOO (which I don't really like...)
Waiting for you to address the Neu5Gc issue 😊
Well thought out, but missing a few key points. LA generates more oxidative stress (damage) in mitochondria when used for energy production. It is actively deselected as an energy source compared to SFA and MUFA. Hence, utility is limited, and therefore intake should be limited relative to other fats. It is essential, but a few grams per day is adequate.
Well said!!!
Mechanistically. But unfortunately we will never know the truth. There will never be a long term human RCT's (lock and key/ metabolic ward with birth till death participants) proving anything in regards to anything. Would be great to create control towns / villages for such studies.
@@DrAJ_LatinAmerica Just use heuristics and add some more plausible points: Look at the consumption of PUFA / Linoleic acid 100 years ago, look at the rise throughout the last decades, look at the percentage of LA in body fat.
Consider this- whole grass fed cow's milk has about 3% of its caloric content provided from PUFA. Moderately fatty steak is similarly about 3% as well. Chicken eggs and fatty fish are closer to 10% on average, although pasture/wild is lower still- in the case of wild fatty fish the w3 content can be many times greater than w6. I think these as good benchmarks to see there is no real basis to eat large amounts of it. For a moderately active man eating about 2400 calories a day a 20g maximum of PUFA is already putting them at 7.5% of daily calories which is already likely double than what they need in comparison to other land mammals including primates, and even approaching marine animal levels. PUFA in general and specifically w6's are only meant to be consumed and synthesised in minimal amounts needed to sustain normal metabolic processes and maintenance, although it may be a bit beneficial in higher quantities for infants. IMO, anything more than this is asking for potential long term problems and any benefit they may bring in terms of ketosis can also be gained from MUFA/SFA. We need PUFA as constituents and precursors to the body and bodily processes, not as energy. We have enough data that peroxidation of these have bad biochemical outcomes, even if quickly converted to ketones and even in a healthy person with endogenous antioxidant systems working well, peroxidation of PUFA will still occur in small amounts and will only get worse as ageing and general poor health and/or diet starts to manifest (let alone if they have already manifested themselves for years or decades). Broken metabolisms and end products of peroxidation, resulting ferroxidation etc. are large contributors endothelial damage, pancreatic cell damage, brain damage, and virtually all systems of the body and a large cause of all chronic disease and death. Carbohydrates/hyperinsulinemia/glycation is one arm of the enemy, and the other arm is this, albeit a little less of an immediate concern. Why not just eat animals/animal products and get what you need perfectly bioavailable in virtually the exact ratio it exists in nature to sustain living beings that are infinitely more similar to you than a walnut?! Is there any benefit to getting these nutrients from plants other than the fact it's cheaper than if it's from an animal? Are the potential consequences worth it?
Best-of youtube-comment nom
I think this comment needs to be bookmarked
Well said!
All these words and no use of paragraphs just makes it word soup.😢
I agree with most of what you said. I personally eat lots of meat. But I think there are still at least 3 reasons to eat vegetables. 1. modern livestock industry is not your friend. Lots of toxins are found from meat especially animal fats simply because many toxins are hydrophobic compounds. 2. Some nutrients are only available from plants like phytonutrients and some antioxidants. 3. You may not necessarily need Veges. But many of your gut microbs do. It is okay if you only eat meat and therefore cultivate a different bacterial composition. But from what I know so far, many good bacteria in our gut like to eat fibers.
I have no issues eating walnuts or pecans or tahini. If I eat food cooked in canola oil and the like, I get inflammation of my joints and also symptoms similar to a UTI. This is every single time, whether I know if I'm being fed seed oils or not. There is nuance, but store bought seeds oils for cooking are suspect in my opinion
59 years of eating the wrong things and I'm eating Carnivore and haven't felt this good in decades. Highly processed seed oils have a half-life of about 690 days in your body. Therefore, it's going to take about 8-10 yrs to get my levels down to where they should be. I won't be consuming highly processed seed oils ever again. I may consider cold pressed seed oils but if the cost/benefit ratio isn't worth it then I'll live without them. I'm 61 and have been on Carnivore for 14 months. Excruciating right knee arthritis and lower back inflammation went away in 6-8 weeks. I lost 35 lbs on Keto but those issues didn't clear up until I cut out plants and seed oils.
You are laughably stupid.
If you say you cut out plants, does that mean you dont eat veggies anymore? That doesnt sound right.
Also: Please iterate what counts to "highly processed seed oils"?
A great reminder the body is capable of wonderful things. Best betas you stated is to support the body with real food as much as possible.
Indeed... best bet... just eating whole real foods will get you a long way
Thanks for the great video, Nick. I always appreciate the nuance. Would you consider doing a video exploring different types of seed oils, particularly focusing on their manufacturing processes? For instance, comparing cold-pressed methods to solvent extraction and bleaching. While JFK Jr. didn’t explicitly mention these details, I suspect that’s what he was alluding to-and it would have been helpful if he had clarified that.
There’s a lot more nuance to unpack here, which is why I also personally lean toward whole food fats, with the exception of high-quality, cold-pressed olive and avocado oils from trusted sources.
I am reminded of Dr. Pekka Puska, who transformed Finland by convincing Finns to eat more whole plants and less saturated fat. The cornerstone of a massive government public education initiative was teaching Finnish housewives to cook with Canola (rapeseed) oil. In all fairness, Canola oil is higher in monounsaturated fat than in polyunsaturated fat (~70% mono, the rest poly- and saturated) so, I'm cheating a little bit. Honestly, I don't think the oil is nearly so important as the damage to the oil - repeated re-heating, contamination from extractive residues and burnt food, preservatives, and oxidation. The most worrisome part of seed oils is how hard it is to smell oxidative damage. By comparison, it's easy to tell when a saturated fat goes rancid. I LOVE your content, Nick! Keep up the great work.
Thanks Linda :).
@@nicknorwitzPhD You are welcome ("Seedless to say" in and of itself is worthy of an accolade. I predict that this tendency will only grow worse once you become a dad.
You mix up up rancidification and oxidation. Oxidation is one possible path of rancidification. Saturated fatty acids can simply not be oxidized in the same way - you clearly don't understand what you're talking about, yet reach to conclusions about the topic you don't understand. Dunning Kruger greets you.
@@YaYippieYeah Okee dokee. Yes, I do understand the difference, I simply didn't bother to reach for perfect scientific accuracy in a brief post. Saturated and unsaturated refer to the extent to which the carbon atoms in the molecule of fatty acid are linked or bonded (saturated) to hydrogen atoms. Zero double bonds = saturated (i.e., stearic acid). One double bond = monounsaturated (i.e., oleic acid). Two or more double bonds = polyunsaturated (i.e., linoleic acid). The more double bonds, the greater the risk of oxidation. My point is for the average person it is much harder to detect oxidation and consequent rancidity in polyunsaturated oils. Rancidity (obviously, not the same as oxidation) is much more obvious in saturated fat. Emily Post greets you.
2 questions:
Which seeds oils are stable enough at high heat to cook with?
How can one go about consuming moga 6 without it causing an imbalance with the onega 3 in his body?
Well, this went in a direction I was not expecting. Thank you for such great content!
Cheers :)
Balanced take on the "issue" -- I would expect nothing less at this point. Thanks Doc!
Nick, the n6:n3 ratio differs across tissues. As far as inflammation is concerned, I believe the ratio in adipose tissue is highly pertinent.
Good point re different tissues. As far as I'm aware, I think T1/2 in adipose tissue is ~680 days
What happens when you burn that adipose fat?
At 4:09, the infographic says "Omega-6 (AA) to omega-3 (EPA)" ratio. Does it mean only those two fatty acids were measured? I.e. the measurement didn't include LA (or ALA/DHA, for that matter)? Was it a tissue biopsy or a serum measurement?
Interesting as always. Thank you, Nick, and have a Merry Christmas
And to you - from Saint Nick 🎅
My n=1 on seed oils I learned is in the dose. In my 20’s I learned from eating a lot of fried food… my gut didn’t like more than one serving in a 3 day period. More than that, I was in excruciating pain on my right side from my liver to my appendix. #1 is dose. #2 is smell & taste. If I go to a restaurant and can smell the oil… I do not order anything that is cooked in that oil. And if I taste the oil in cooked food, I won’t eat it. The taste tells you how over used and rancid the oil is.
But if you don’t taste it , then it has no effect. Taste test is not that accurate ….to me it sounds like some of your issue has become psychosomatic…still real results but impacted by more than just the physical nature of
@ that’s why it’s called n=1.
Balanced perspective as usual, Nick. My personal approach is to not add fat of any kind to anything I eat. If you want fat, eat a whole food that has plenty of fat in it in the first place. Pretty hard to go wrong with this method. Mind you, my whole food definition does include cheese, Greek yogurt and cream :)
Thank you for the video! One thing I’d like to add is that when you heat those 'seed oils,' they produce toxic compounds like n-hexanal and crotonaldehyde. Also, it’s only certain seed oils that produce these compounds when heated to high temperatures
I want the government to take bad guidance off food. Saying heart healthy on factory made oils and on a box of Cheerios is just a lie.
Horrendous isn't it.
This point is compatible with everything I said
I’ve got to go over this again, lots of info to absorb, but very informative
Merry Christmas, Dr. Nick and please continue educating me through 2025!
Thanks! And I'm not going anywhere!
But Nick, Lane Norton knows the science! He cites a study where 10 guys ate keto for a week and ate low calorie standard American for a week and didnt lose any extra weight. Sceince settled!!! 10 guys for a whole week? What more could you ask for?!?!
The sarcasm is strong with this one.
The *_"gas"_* is strong in Labe Norton as well. 😊
@@nicknorwitzPhDsarcasm is both strong and accurate!
Deep Fried, grilled or spit fired with seed oil drizzled? 👹
Lame Norton 😂
This is actually quite prominent over here in Libya as seed oils (Sunflower & Corn Mainly) in of themselves if used in a generally healthy metabolic context, they'd not demonstrate the damage or be worthy of "Poison" as a title. It comes down to the bigger picture of the person's eating habits as a whole, rather than them consuming seed oils being the sole reason they're obese or metabolically unhealthy.
The reason why it's prominent is that the diet heavily relies on processed & refined carbs like rice, pasta, flour, white bread and fast food in combination with processed seed oils that have quality as their least prioritized aspect. It's become quite a problem and most health care experts here rarely ever look to a person's diet and lifestyle because they're so eager to pump them full of blood pressure medication instead of telling them to watch their Vitamin D, Potassium, Sodium and Magnesium levels in order to regulate the Renin/Angiotensin hormone cycle and not have it spiral out of control, as an example.
Sounds balanced...
what is renin/angiotensin hormone cycle?
@@Yasharahla7 In more detail, it's called RAS (Renin-Angiotensin System) or RAAS (Renin-Angiotensin-Adolsetrone System).
It's a hormone system that regulates blood pressure (managing levels of potassium and sodium in the blood) as well, fluid and electrolyte balance.
@@Yasharahla7Dr Ben Bikman explains that in detail on his most recent lecture on his TH-cam channel ‘Ben Bikman PhD’. The lecture is called ‘The unexpected link between salt-regulating hormones and metabolic health’. The previous lecture on anti hypertensive medications is also relevant. Hope that helps.
An outstanding presentation, thank you Nick!🥇
you're welcome :)
This is like the Saladino carb situation , but with seed oils instead of carbs.(Saladino's intense exercise regime enabling him to be ok with certain carbs ,equivalent to omega 6's being ok for someone with a very non-standard staple diet.)
You raise an interesting point although I do believe that Paul consumes too many carbs
I think Saladino still didn't discover his problem and this is substitution which won't let him find out, being in addiction he won't ever change until maybe it get a toll enough
I'm not up to date on Paul's latest diet and lifestyle choices
@@nicknorwitzPhD He eats a crap ton of carbs in the form of fruit and honey, along with high protein and high fat
@@szymonbaranowski8184 the same with Tom Brady. that carb addict is 80% Plant-Based. that is so unhealthy. poor thing. he will pay the price!
Your videos are great!
Thank you for taking the time and putting out the effort to do such a great job.
A 75-year-old keto diet enthusiast (and scientist in the biological sciences.)
Awesome and informative as always. Thanks Nick🤝
I’ll call the new awareness of these dangerous oils and their effect on human health a MIRACLE🎉🎉🎉🎉
Nick what do you think about how little we actually know what interactions any of the thousands chemical compounds in a given plant might have on human body ?
We can see how even clearly toxic things like cigarettes take such a long time to manifest in symptomatic illness. I'm always cautious of the fact that plants produce compounds for their own survival and what is good for a walnut tree and its seeds might not be that good for my chemistry, in the end we are not that much alike. On top of that plants clearly have mechanisms to protect themselves from predators, like a hard shells, spikes and even toxic chemical compounds.
To me Phytosterols seem super frightening they are so similar to our cholesterol so much so they get incorporated as part of our cell membranes but do not have the same chemical properties, luckily they are absorbed at a extremely low rate by most people, but still why do we consider those things to be part of the healthy balanced diet, when they are clearly non essential for humans ?
Fantastic video on a hotly debated issue that is clearly not well understood by proponents on both sides. As usual, too many people looking for simple, single action answers to very complex questions.
I appreciate that!
Thanks for being an open-minded and nuanced thinker
I try. Thanks for hanging in with me :)
@@nicknorwitzPhD Next can you provide the nuanced differentiation between "smart ass" and "dumb ass". For the benefit of science.
I have no stress response avoiding seed oils. I don't desire them at all. It's completely natural once I got rid of them.
Avoiding junk for a month is challenging but then it becomes smooth sailing.
Whatever works for you my friend :)
@nicknorwitzPhD sure, I mean let's not scare people into thinking that avoiding seedoils is stressful.
I think it's in almost everything if you don't make the food yourself, so it's not really that cut and dry. Imagine saying no to eating with friends because of seed oil or other such examples.
this is good and I appreciate you wading into this thorny topic. I'm not so sure we should be giving up on RCTs shedding light. If these things cause inflammation and oxidative stress, there should be ways of measuring that in the shorter term even without waiting years to see who lives and who dies. on some level, we have to acknowledge the lack of RCT evidence really IS a weakness in the argument against seed oils.
I have an open mind to the idea that these are harmful, and personally opt for less processed (real food) oils when I can, like butter/ghee, evoo, avocado oil. The crowding out of omega 3 by massive intake of omega 6 is probably a real thing. But I can't help but suspect there's a guilt-by-association (and a lot of wooo) going on with seed oils, that they're kind of harmless by themselves, and the real culprit is refined carbohydrate and to a smaller degree non-food chemicals.
Thank you for the video. So, you eat expensive. I can't afford to eat salmon three times a week. I can't afford macadamia oil as a weekly purchase. I suspect the olive oil I do buy is not very good olive oil, but it's what I can afford. I do what I can, and I use your advice as guidance.
Always do what you can :). That said, a diet including those foods you mentioned doesn't need to break the bank. While a good EVOO can cost a decent amount money per bottle, when you look at it from an energy/$ value it's not that bad. Same with macadamia and fatty fish. Plus, tinned sardines can be dirt cheap. Anyone who indulges in - say - Starbucks can afford to eat reasonably well.
Can the tinned sardines fat get oxidised? I Had some digestive issue once with a tin of sardines in brine. Maybe it was badly stored tho. Thx
whole foods where ever you can and read the ingredient labels of everything you buy.
it can be done even on a limited budget
An easy rule for purchasing unadulterated olive oil is to turn the bottle around and look for the California Olive Oil Council (COOC) certification. Say what you will about crazy California, but they do take their olive oil seriously and they do insure that the bottle of olive oil actually contains olives. So, any olive oil bottled out of California will meet their strict guidelines and make sure that it has the "Certified Extra Virgin" seal to insure it has the lowest percentage of 'defects' as they call it. And also make sure it says "Cold Pressed" rather than 'Refined'. With that said, I've found that the best brand that meets the nexus of Price\Quality\Availability is the "California Olive Ranch" brand olive oil (not affiliated) which is readily available in most grocery stores. They have an expensive bottle that has the COOC stamp on it because 85% of the olives are sourced directly from California. But they also have a "Global Blend' which is about half the cost and uses 10% of olives sourced from California, 85% from Tunisia, and the remainder from South America. While it doesn't have the COOC cert label on it, it does have the Certified Extra Virgin stamp which means it contains less than .5 grams per 100 grams of adulterants.
@heftyjo2893 yes, but those oils out of California may also be high in pthalates., even when bottled in glass because the oil comes in contact with plastic during processing.
Thank you Nick for making the distinctions of the key terms. It would be very helpful if you can provide scientific evidences to determine how much of the PUFA being used for body parts (cell membrane, hormones, etc) which could mean weak spots for damages compared with stable saturated fats. I was not able to find videos on this topic.
Sorry, not exactly sure on your question. Are you asking the relative % of say membrane lipids and how diet shifts those values? If so, I'm not aware of great data in large part because it's hard to get reliable long-term data on intake.
@@nicknorwitzPhD I mean saturated fat is much less easy to be oxidized than PUFA. So, if the body uses non-saturated fats for body tissue or hormones, they may create risks down the road. However, I am not sure if fats are first broken down and then being used as in the case of protein.
Thanks again, Nick for weighing in on a currently controversial issue. Great info, as usual.
Appreciate it Melissa!
Being heterozygous for Sitosterolemia, I’ve been told to avoid plant sterols. I can’t find any studies supporting this. Do you know of any or do you have any recommendations? A video on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
From a curious, reasonable and nuanced individual, I thank you for your perspective. Much appreciated as I have been avoiding many of the seed oils like they carry plague. Now I will only avoid them like they are recommended mRNA injections. 😉
You're trying to provoke me into more trouble... I get in enough myself ;)
Also wouldn’t you need a fat biopsy to truly determine body Omega 6/Omega 3 ratios? Curious how you obtained yours, and how reliable the results are.
Thanks for this video. My family have been eating "Knife Cooking oil" for years. Only selling in Malaysia and Singapore. "Blend of Premium Oils: a refined blend of palm olein, peanut oil, and sesame oil." Because of the overloaded info online, I've been thinking this oil can be the reason we gain fats. Still not sure what palm olein oil can do to our body. If palm is consider fruit and not seed.
Keto for 5 years and carnivore for 1 year now. My carnivore doctor recommended I stop eating "dirty" keto. Avoid almond flour and avocado oil...Omega 6/3 ratio reduced from 9:1 to 6:1 in my carnivore year. LP(a) reduced naturally from 88 to 44 (no medications).
Almond flour denatures in cooking so it can be inflammatory even outside the context of oils.
What's wrong with avocado oil?
@@mionggg Avacado oil has too much Omega-6 (according to my Doctor), so I switched to coconut oil.
Good chat! Your content is always enlightening. Your deliver is sooooooooooo much better than it was in the beginning. Did you switch to decaf? 😄😄 Seriously, I had conversation with a colleague today who said consuming vegetable oil would make you go blind. I smiled and nodded because I didn't really have a viable response. I will likely forward a link to this video. Thx for what you do.
Let me know what they think. Thanks for the kind words :).
I'm sure there is evidence linking age related macular degeneration (AMD) to seed oils. Chris Knobbe is the man to see on this topic.
@@tomfilbey On your recommendation I watched a few of his videos. He lost me at, "We're going to look more at the evidence than the biochemistry." (I heard, "No science.") Then he presented a compelling (good speaker), but anecdotal (lots of charts - many of which were prepared by his organization) presentation about vegetable oils causing most of the nutritional problems and chronic diseases in the world today. There was not even a nod towards any other possible cause. No thank you.
Absolutely spot on video. Not all oil the same. And to add, big corporation processed seeds oils are very different from high quality Italian artisan cold pressed extra virgin oil. Plus the smell and taste are of a whole other level. Yes, unfortunately so is the price.
And it's skyrocketed recently (at least in the UK) 🤦🏾
Seed oil production with the use of hexane & high heat (& bottled in plastic) be of high concern? That's just wrong IMHO!
Yeah this is what I wonder about. How does that hexane and processing affect the product?
I don't deny it... re metabolic health
It is a tricky landscape to try to navigate and understand. I often hear both sides and they seem to contradict each other. What I have learned is to go with what my experience is, and what I have come to know. I feel much better without these "highly processed seed oils" and excessive carbs in my diet.
Nick fast forward 30 years (for yourself) and you might like to ADD, and consider the Linoleic 9-Hode, 13-Hode causes of CVD? Just saying - this was proven in a study made in the 60's that everyone seems to have forgotten - it is very important for 50+ year olds!
Awesome video on such a confusing topic due to imperfect studies. Just a great video. Thanks
Welcome!
When I go to restaurants, I pull my seed oil allergy card (can be downloaded on the internet) and tell them to cook only in butter since restaurants olive oils are 90% seed oils. Sometimes I bring my own olive oil in a small bottle and put it over my boiled fish or salads. 😂😅
I don’t mind natural seed oils and consume them regularly…love walnuts and macadamian nuts as well as Nutella nuts 😂🤣 (sometimes)
By the way, love your channel!!👏
Have been saying similar for quite some time (particularly around oxidative priority). Nice work!
Thanks Robb!
Well even nuts can be problematic ...years ago i fell in love with walnuts as a snack. I would buy huge bags on them and would be snacking on them all the time. Then i started to have random attacks of pain in my joints, including hands. It was getting worse and worse and worse. After lot of sessions with webmd symptom checker the rheumatoid arthritis was at the top. That got later confirmed. But during the very long 3 month wait for first appointment with rheumatologist i have seen videos about people getting rid of that pain through elimination diets and such. So i thought hmmm.... what have i changed that could have resulted in this anoying pain attacks? I stopped with eating all those wallnuts and BAM. Pain free. I havent touched nuts for a year and then was very carefull with them. Now i am somewhat starting to love them again. How much am i playing with fire?
Well its not so much a walnut issue as it is your inability to moderate intake. I have friends who can eat 3 or 4 spoonfuls of ben&jerrys icecream, put it back in the fridge and not touch it for a week. I on the other hand will eat the whole thing until Im sick.
I dont habe self control when I eat foods for pleasure
As you know, I'm very pro 'n = 1' lifestyle. That said, even if walnuts were the problem food for you, what makes you think it was the omega-6/PUFA?
i fixed my histamine intolerance problem which got worst when overeating histamine sources as cacao
now I can eat everything that flared this condition instantly as fermented foods but walnuts are those exceptions giving instant allergic reaction in mouth
When it all flared worst it looked like arthritis with inability to straighten fingers after waking up and great pain of wrists. took a long while to figure the real cause
I fixed it with B vitamins, plain KEFIR and antihistamine strains in probiotic. additionally fixing dairy intolerance
histamine, gut dysbiosis, allergic reactions, B vitamins supply and ratio, methylation status and homocysteine, inflammation level are all connected and all also influencing brain health and functions
I crave Omega 6 as fake nuts - the peanuts from time to time but eating whole small can has sure backlash a few hours later...
while eating whole bar of 70% cacao bar does nothing except sugar effects
now addressing poor folate methylation genes (minor one not of 2 severe ones)
@@BenjaminKuruga On the other hand that ice cream will crystallize out it's water content and taste won't even be worth it's negatives if left for weeks between spoonfuls
@@nicknorwitzPhDn=1 is ideal and probably the future, but constantly ordering bloods is too expensive for most of us. Presumably allot of the marker testing could be done by machines at some point, but in the mean time people are left guessing and being guided by n=2K+ (with or without good design)
Especially liked point 6, which seems to be just another reason why good studies of seed oil effects will be difficult
Agree... I'd expect one would need at least several months to see an effect, and a broad set of markers. There's too much noise in things like CRP. So a broad cytokine panel and pre/post DEXA scans on a calorie and protein and fat and carb matched diets for, say 6 months, in a feeding trial with a decent separation in % PUFA, ideally trading PUFA for MUFA rather than saturated fat. You can image why this would be difficult to conduct. Furthermore, even then, I wouldn't generalize from high to low carb contexts, nor MetS/obesity to lean/metabolically healthy. That said, I think for a meager $25 Million we could do the definitive study. RFK Jr has orders of magnitude more $.
Kudos to Nick. Best assessment of Seed Oil Hypothesis I've seen. Helps that he explains that seed oils are type of PFU, which are both condemned and praised by health social media producers, and causes huge confusion. Whole subject needs much more research. I personally try to use minimal heat and browning when cooking too minimized oxidation of unsaturated fatty acids. Also it is informative that one can test actual omega-6/3 ratio in the body. I am encouraged to get this tested, and hope there will be much more research to clarify its impact on health, and so-called "metabolic disease" and mitochondria health.
Hi Nick, thanks for the great video! I have a question about something you mentioned around the 7:50 mark: you said, “...in the context of very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets, polyunsaturated fat and Omega-6 are very efficiently converted into ketone bodies like beta-hydroxybutyrate.” Is this supported by literature? If so, could you point us in the right direction?
Or is this based on your personal experience, like in another video where you mentioned that combining tahini (as a source of Omega-6) with a 24-hour fast increased your ketone levels to 6 mmol/L? Additionally, have you observed if tahini alone (without fasting) also increases ketone levels? Thanks in advance for clarifying!
So what are your thoughts on consuming vegetable oils…sunflower, canola etc etc ?
Look up Harry Serpanos Are the omega 3/6 ratios in pork dangerous?
He says higher 6/3 ratios naturally exist in parts of body and that PUFA itself isn't any problem but it's oxydation and deuterium it contains, also that some omega 6s have also healing properties and used by athletes. Pork fat being least oxidised by heating fat
Term needs to change to highly processed seed oils.
Would be better.
Product category too since it's nature change so much that it is no more a food but a chemical. Maybe a plant based lubricant or combustible.
I use 'industrial processed seed oils'
I do think most common sense people know that
As a borderline LMHR with a high LDL, I have been advised to stay away from fats such as coconut and butter and incorporate more PUFA/MUFA oils such as seed oils. I've been informed that seed oils can lower LDL thereby reducing the risk of cardiovascular disease.
The current medical community establishment seems overly concerned about total LDL measurement without adequately differentiating its subcategories or focusing enough on insulin levels and insulin resistance.
The LDL number is entirely irrelevant without the surrounding blood levels for context. Nothing about LDL can cause damage on its own.
@@stevetonnesen3666yes, and triglycerides level is a better predictor of risks
My N=1, I would get insane acne whenever I ate any substancial (50g+/day)amount of nuts (peanuts, almonds, cashews) and get very low energy on a "normal" diet. On keto, I can eat that 50g without these effects.
I don't know where is my threshhold is now, but I think that I'll never hit it as long as I don't become keto nut-etarian or that I chug rapeseed oil like Nick did NOT suggest doing
.. Cordains book on acnes a worthy read.
Nick made a very naughty error toward the end of the excellent video when he listed three oils that are stable at higher cooking temperatures. He included olive oil when I trust he meant avocado oil. As most of you know, EVOO smokes at and turns to toxic trans fat around 300 degrees, so don’t cook on stove above a 2 or 3 out of 10 (just above Low), whereas avocado oil doesn’t smoke and become harmful until closer to 500 degrees.
That said, because I buy Dr. Gundry’s super high polyphenol EVOO from Morocco, which is one of the healthiest lipids one can consume from a plant, I do fry my eggs and bake okra and other vegetables with half EVOO and half a RedBloom chili pepper avocado oil (which improves the gut microbiome per FDA approved results, the first such “food”), but at as low a temp as possible given my schedule constraints (since lower temp takes longer but protects nutrients and polyphenols more).
Drs. Nick Norwitz, Ford Brewer, Robert Lustig, Annette Bosworth (“Dr. Boz”), William Li, Mindy Pelz, Mark Hyman, David Perlmutter, Eric Westman, Diary of a CEO guests, Zoe, Levels, Jesse Chappus, and yes, even the occasionally misinterpreting Thomas DeLauer, Drs. Sten Ecknerg, Eric Berg and Nourished by Science have informed me since April 2024 as to the evidence and truth, as best we can tell for now, of metabolic health science.
Thanks to these folks doing the research for us and sharing their analysis and opinions, in just 6 months I lost 30 lbs. of belly fat, mostly visceral and fatty liver, and only have a stubborn couple pounds left but have the perfect waist for my height once again, while taking my at risk triglycerides and fasted serum glucose levels from At Risk (150 and 93, respectively, as 14 year avg., and in High Risk range at times), down to healthy levels, and same for fasted insulin, while raising my HDL from low 40s to 55 and headed higher, and convincing me to get ApoB, CAC and based on these indicating some atherosclerosis, a coronary CT angiogram that shows mild stenosis in LAD (“the widow maker”) from soft plaque, and therefore, beginning a moderate daily dose of Crestor, which has reduced in just 3 months my ApoB (and LDL-c, which doesn’t matter, unlike the VLDL and triglycerides and HDL-c tests) by about 50%, so from high or very high down to borderline at risk, which I expect will fall further. Yes, I realize it’s the small dense lipoproteins that lead to soft plaque and atherosclerosis, and until I get my HDL over 60 and triglycerides below 70, and ApoB I “normal” range, and fasted insulin and HbA1c below 5.0, all of which I expect within a year or so, I’m going to stay on this moderate dose Rosuvastatin, and then move down to low dose few days a week as Dr. Brewer indicates for his patients. That or if I see soft plaque is gone and calcified from a coronary CT angiogram with AI, something that may not be affordable/worthwhile.
Thanks of you read this, and careful cooking with EVOO. It’s best with salads and dips, especially with organic apple cider vinegar that helps keep blood glucose and insulin levels lower.
It wasn't an error. I just said what oils I used. I didn't say I heat EVOO. I prefer avocado oil, macadamia oil and ghee for cooking. Happy for you on your journey!
Gundry is a quack.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Does rendered lard from store have its PUFA oxidised?
Although olive oil’s smoking point is low, because of its high antioxidant content, it oxidizes upon heat much less than some oils with a higher smoking point. So it’s totally acceptable (and delicious) to cook with olive oil, as long as extreme heat is not used, which is in itself unhealthy even in the absence of olive oil.
@@AS-nz5ci u conflate extreme heat with burned food :) not how it works
The production of seed oils includes some heavy industrial processing steps or so goes the complaint of many folks who hate seed oils. And, for people like me who avoid eating most fish (for multiple reasons), fish oil is the best way to get EPA/DHA. Oddly, you never hear anyone going on about how fish oil is made. I'm certain it is every bit as gross as seed oil production. There are some outfits that try to set quality standards for fish oils, though they may not be very influencial. But, I haven't seen any equivalent quality standards for seed oils. Are they out there and I've just missed finding them?
Bart Kay says fishoil is oxidised... Cheers
You need to talk about the deuterium and doxic oxidation products (4HNE) in the oils as well.
this would include sugary products as fruits or honey
A person could actually drink a single shot glass qty of pure deuterium at one time, without any short or long term harm and that would represent the quantity of deuterium you'd get from a decade or more of consumption of raw seed oils. Dosage matters, both short term and over a lifetime.
Many people worried about deuterium levels in seed oil will happily consume a toxic dose of fructose daily (more than 8 g is toxic).
I know of someone who drank 1 liter of deuterium, and that made them slightly ill temporarily (no apparent long term harm to date), but a shot glass qty presents no short or long term harm and the amount that could be present in raw seed oils is entirely irrelevant. The harm caused by deuterium is in it displacing h2o in the cells and altering cellular reactions (but so long as h2o is present in dominant qty in the cells, those reactions will largely proceed as normal) so yes it is harmful in qty and no I don't recommend consuming a shot glass of it daily.
To put this in perspective though, if it was a choice between a 16 oz glass of orange juice per day and a shot glass of deuterium per day, the negative health consequences of long term consumption between the two would be a toss up with deuterium likely being the less harmful of the two (at that qty) over the long term.
What's the relative 4HNE levels induced by French fry oil vs a raw walnut, including exogenous and endogenous production. Can you answer that for me?
1. The US is the world's largest exporter of seed oils;
2. the US government provides billions in subsidies to produce seed oils (corn and soy);
3. the US dietary guidelines are written by the agriculture department (USDA) for some reason;
4. the US dietary guidelines claim seed oils are awesome.
What a coincidence...
Counterpoint: Do other countries have other recommendations then? Anyone?
This all helps quite a lot. I take from it to focus on fats in natural contexts (in foods), and to prefer the saturated and mono unsaturated fats for their stability when cooking. That seems like a safe policy as all the biochem and physio mechanisms are worked out.
the heating stage of seed oil creation causes oxidation therefore all seed oils are oxidized
In this comment though you reveal you have a more narrow definition of seed oils than many. That’s good
@@nicknorwitzPhD But again your audience is regular people, not science community. In the streets, seed oils = industrial sunflower or rapeseed oils. And these are the seed oils accessible to most of us, and consumed by most people on earth. Just saying ....
Is it true Omega 6 from seed oils can take 2-4 years to clear from your system? If this is true, can you correct your Omega6:3 ratio by eliminating the seed oils and allowing time to bring down the 6's while also increasing sources of Omega 3 vs supplementing with what might be a questionable supplement?
Thanks so much for this much needed video. Very interesting that the ratio of O 3:6 eaten gets reflected in the body composition very differently. What is the body doing with the rest of the O-6? If it's modified will it still be picked up in these tests? Also, are you familiar with Prof Chris Kobe's very thorough work which paints a rather horrifying picture of O-6 and its worse breakdown products like Malondelaldehyde ( and 100s more). Also grain/ corn fed pigs and hens can end up with higher levels of O6 in the flesh than seed oils! How "protected" is this content compared to o6 in seed oils?
2 takeaways from your video 1. It's ok to eat whole food containing O6 as other factors contained in these foods prevent the O6 being damaged/oxidised. 2.Our metabolism is different so we can tolerate different levels/ratios of O6.
Do you think it's important to note however that even with whole foods, long storage and heat can turn the O6/3 content into undesirable oxidation products so freshness and temperature is important?
Thanks again!
Your body burns some excess omega 6 so that probably balances the ratio to a point. Excess o-6 while in a (large) calorie surplus is probably part of the issue, as that would lead to storing o-6 which would negatively alter the composition of body fat. Also huge o-6:3 ratios might overwhelm whatever omega 3 you manage to intake as o-6 competes with o-3.
Balanced fair view of seed oils, thank you
My pleasure
Interesting topics provided. However I would add some important factors here. 1. seed oil impact of health in studies includes TOTOX number. This parameter is crucial, because we have cut-off values from RCTs and many sold ols in supermarkets have too high TOTOX at shelf, not to mention when heated on frying pan. 2. In US trans fats are regulated, BUT in Europe and other parts ot the world - not. So for instance prof. Cichosz has studied trans fat content of oils sold in supermakrets in Poland and found that all tested samples contained trans fats between 20 to 60% of bottle volume.... That is why it is not the best idea to buy seed oils afterall....
Dr. Paul Mason seems to think that shelf life is the critical element in whether seed oils and even fish oils oxidize and produce reactive oxygen species. Apparently, this oxidization is measurable across many brands of fish oils and krill oils and are significant. What say you? MBS,VMD
@Nick Norwitz Hi Nick. Thanks for the interesting video! In concern of omega 3 fatty acids being damaged by oxidation, do you think the astaxanthin in salmon meaningfully prevents lipid oxidation in cooked salmon? And is that one of the reasons you choose it?
That's an awesome omega 3 to 6; ratio. Mine is 1:7. This is the current focus of my N=1 studies. Trying to determine what dosing and lifestyle modes I need to get it to 1:1.
I do eat a significant quantity of raw sunflower and pumpkin seeds (to insure sufficient magnesium) along with a lot of raw nuts.
1.7 is awesome!
@nicknorwitzPhD one TO 7 (1:7) so not awesome unfortunately One unit of 3 to 7 units of 6.
Better than average, but definitely not awesome.
What are your alternatives, if you're allergic to a lot of whole foods? In terms of nuts, I can only eat cashews and pistachios 😅
Excellent analysis of a controversial topic. I assume all fast food fries are oxidized. The issue is knowing which store bought "vegetable" oils are oxidized. Too bad there isn't a test one can do in the kitchen of us mere mortals.
Your slower explanations are helpful. I am not as smart as you, and need some processing time after you present a series of facts and their possible ramifications. Pausing at certain points keeps people involved. Thanks.
Huberman's Tweet was asking if there is any article that points that seed oils are bad
I'm curious about links between brain damage and linoleic acid. Is it oxidative stressors which link high linoleic acid intake to lower cognitive function or is it something else about linoleic acid which has deleterious effects on cognitive functioning?
Dear Nick, could you make a video showing the optimal cooking temperatures for all the good oils you mentioned plus regular American butter, Kerrygold butter, and rendered tallow like the Wagyu beef tallow from the South Chicago company.
Thank you,
Carnivore Grandma 😀
The prevalence of regional ASCVD and presumably pre-clinical ASCVD seems to correlate with the associated dietary omega 6 to 3 ratio. It would be interesting to dig into the possible mechanisms and the notion of damaged oils confounding the benefits of dietary omega 6 and contributing to ASCVD.
Please help me out here: my impression is that seed oils that are mechanically processed rather than extracted with hexane, and not heated, are OK. For example, expeller-pressed canola oil used in a salad dressing seems to be almost as good as olive oil used for the same purpose, at least nutritionally. Seed oils that are heated, though, should be largely avoided, because they oxidize very easily at higher temperatures, given their less stable molecular structure. And cheaper, low-quality seed oils, which tend to be extracted with petroleum-based chemical solvents like hexane, should be avoided at all costs. Do I have it about right?
Suet is the best cooking fat. Super high smoke point and dense in vitamins. By far the healthiest fat to cook in and consume.
You are amazing. I love the way you think and articulate .
Thank you! 😃
@nicknorwitzPhD I think a really good video for you to make would be a recommendation for all the blood work tests that people should get.
Personally I don't have a good primary care physician and I don't know how to find one. I would like to be able to request specific blood work.
I follow low carb ketogenic whole food diet. Exercise regularly and feel great.
Would like to know what blood work to do
Finally. Thank you. Was getting very annoyed with both the RFK and the NY Times takes.
What is best proportion for omega 6 to omega 3, I read and watch doctors say that 4:1 is best ratio but Nic say in video he have perfect score ratio with 1:1 I’m confused 🤔
You are great. You are smart. You are well informed. And you consistently bury the lede. Try putting your conclusion at the start. It would keep more of us awake for the explanations. I send this with goodwill.
1) Are there trans fats in seed oils (in bottles on the store shelf)?
2) Is the human body able to metabolize trans fats?
There is plenty of omega 6 in both olive oil and avocado oil (for high heat uses), such that you would never need the more fragile seed oils for cooking or salads. The unmentioned problem with seed oil is the highly processed nature of their manufacture that almost guarantees that the beneficial factors in the original seeds probably won't survive.
Omega 6 content in evoo and avo oil is ~8-12% vs many classic industrial cooking oils with 30-50% … also point 1 was meant to address the discrepancy in definitions, including industrial processed highly oxidized oils.
What is your opinion of the common condemnation of seed oils for being highly processed -- seeds are ground, heated, treated with the solvent, hexane. Is expeller pressed canola any better than using the standard method?