I respected Peter prior to how disrespectfully he treated Dave Feldman on his podcast a few years back. Since then, I expect him to throw tantrums when the establishment is questioned.
I respected him too, but he is not open to new data. That is not science works. His book Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity was published last year. I haven't read it, but from one of his interview, I think he does mention lowering ApoB with pharmaceutical menas, which he is doing in his life. It would be hard for him to change his point of view. But if he did, i would respect him a lot more. 😃
@@johngosnell3847 I wish I had your ability to perceive this. His TED Talk is how I originally got into keto. I used to respect him. I no longer do. He is somehow just too full of himself. I made a similar comment on a Dr. Boz video about Attia. Got a thumbs up from her.
Peter Attia has a lot of good things to say; I don’t _want_ to ignore him. However, he has an _incredible_ ego, which I take into account when I listen to him.
Recent new findings are driven by scientists outside of the fields being questioned! Counter to what Peter presents, most scientific fields need to question their own adherence to scientific methods!! He’s turned to be an egotistical a$$hat! I used to follow him, but I can’t stomach his arrogant condescension….BTW, I am an n of one…I am healthier than I have been in my entire life…including childhood!
Carnivore has made my depression 95% better. I sleep better. I have my cycle back (lost it completely for years due to PCOS). And I’ve lost 60 lbs or so. I’ve been told my whole life that I have heart disease in my family. I can’t ever see myself going back to what I was eating before carnivore.
"I guess he doesn't want to re-write it." I wonder, you propably haven't read Kuhn's "The structure of scientific revolutions". You probably should because this is exactly how science (from a sociological point of view) works...
I'm surprised at Peter's call to authority as if none of us are capable of actually reading and comprehending all of the studies of the last 80 years trying (and mostly failing) to prove the lipid hypothesis and demonize saturated fats. No, Peter, we think like this BECAUSE we've read these studies and we've seen the results first hand in our own n=1 trial. We won't just take some "expert's" word on the subject.
Peter has run away from the challenge to debate a qualified person. Mind you Dave Feldman has also avoided Bart Kay maybe because Bart is 'mean on the internet'.... realise that Dayspring is far worse yet they still want to talk with him and he is a numpty.
@@user-cf5cy8rb5y Really? I've often found that my own n=1 trials are 100% the best because those are the ones that, selfishly, help me and change my life for the better. I understand your point about being wary of other people's n=1 trials but that doesn't mean that they have no value. A lot of times, an n=1 is a "conversation starter" and once you have 10,000 or 100,000 n=1 studies such as I see in say, the Carnivore Diet, well, then you begin to have a hypothesis. Imagine if we had 80 years and billions of dollars that actually compared a true Carnivore Diet to a true Ketogenic Diet to a true Mediteranean Diet to a true Vegetarian Diet... instead of just 80 years of trying to prove that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad. I'm certainly open to changing my mind but I want to see a "fair", well defined study.
@@tomunderwood4283 he makes a good example of a professional Dunning Kruger. It is sad to see these types whether is be Attia, Layne Norton etc have such pull when they get things so wrong at a basic level.
Agreed. Coming from a long line of very smart men, who know they're smart, but sometimes aren't able to believe (truly) that they aren't the smartest in the room, I recognized his arrogance immediately.
Attia's ego camouflages insecuity. He whines because he knows he is being out-debated. The Oreo cookie challenge is reproducible, and hence verifiable. It is *science.*
@@konradx498I used to watch Attia quite a bit and the insecurity oozed through every one of his videos to the point of being cringy. It is fine and even admirable for one to display vulnerability. However, he immediately shifts into arrogant bully mood when he finds himself standing on shaky ground fighting a pathetic rear guard action for conventional views on the topic. I find his efforts even more pathetic in that he seems to be motivated primarily by being accepted in his community. He will challenge convention on the fringes but will fight tooth and nail to protect anything that is a core principle even without an argument to support his defense.
@@konradx498But what does the Oreo cookie challenge have to do with all the evidence that shows the longest living people eat a prominently plant based diet high in carbs?
I am grateful that these guys are pursuing the LMHR model! After 3 years since my husband and I starting Keto morphed into Carnivore, we finally got blood panels done and everything is great except both of us have high LDL and despite that all the other cholesterol numbers indicate low heart disease risk, our doctor is suggesting we might want to consider a statin. If we hadn’t already been up on this study happening, we might have really questioned if eating carnivore is the right thing to do. We are 70 and 65 yso, athletic and thanks to carnivore, lean mass😊. It is time for Peter to catch up.
Saw a podcast the other day on a completely different subject, but something the scientist said can apply here as well. "I'd rather have questions without answers- than answers that can't be questioned." Thankful that you and your colleagues keep asking all the questions. 👍🏻
He is wrong on heart disease and cancer,excluding those 2 he may be right !!!!!.A flip flopping gate keeper in my view.Everyone has a price it seems and Peter knows his.@@thehalfacrepasture
Brilliantly said Nick! Thank goodness for people like you and Dave and Mathew and others. People like Peter Attia are actually hindering progression of the science in this regard. He seems prepared to die on his Thomas Dayspring monument.
Thank you again Dr. Norwitz… I love what you are doing for all of us physicians who have always questioned this dogma on lipids. In the past I have been disappointed with Peter for his views on this topic and am glad to not be alone. Looking forward to more of your work!
@nicknorwitzPhD , doc, why aren't "experts" recommending potassium supplementation?? All I hear about is magnesium!? It's quite a challenge to get 4700 mgs. of potassium within a 2000 to 3000 calorie budget. Why are no experts recommending potassium???
I don't think this is fair. Peter has shown that he can very publicly admit he was wrong. His TED talk and the apology he gave to one of his diabetic patients many years ago proves it. I believe he can do it again, but it's hard. I hope he will respond @nicknorwitzPhD th-cam.com/video/sjJrXHWLP_M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=N1ofitlPO9HZLjnF&t=814
@@PedroTeixeira” the apology..he gave a many years ago “ … the guy is one of the most arrogant people in the space, he will finally be forced to admit he was wrong but it’ll be years after people that leave the ego at the door landed on the right answer.
I'm having a lot of fun watching this unfold! You have the LMHR people politely asking questions, and the lipid community telling them their questions have no merit. They are told to go sit at the kids table and stop disturbing the adults. So the LMHR people fund studies which appear to show things that can't be explained by the lipid community. The LMHR people politely ask more questions. The lipid community again says the questions have no merit, but the people saying that look a little more silly each time.
Well said! I remember that podcast that Dave was on and I cringed after some of the things Peter said to Dave. I was amazed at how professionally Dave handled it. We dont know a lot of things, maybe Peter will realize this one day.
If one does a little research on Peter's history, he was once a big time Low Carb advocate and he scientifically proved how low Carb changed his life and health for the better. I've seen him absolutely in tears apologizing for his past medical mistakes after learning what health benefits the Low Carb Diet had provided him and his recent patients. However what he eventually discovered is that his new passion did not get him any credit with ACADEMIA so he found he had to buddy up with the Elite and back peddle his way into the ARROGANT CRONIES who, like Peter, love to spew their academic B.S. just to hear themselves pontificate!!!!!
It isn't common but it does happen. Perlmutter somewhat 'betrayed' the low carb scientific community to follow his ideological roots (rather than academic 'profit' and fame). He still says sugar is bad, carbs are bad, anti-nutrients are an issue etc then makes rubbish up about meat and says we should eat a plant based diet. There are an ever increasing number of people moving into the low carb sphere and it isn't going to be isolated from those who seek fame or to remain in their ideological wheelhouse or even that they were so extreme (warned of this) and end up no longer being low carb (an example Saladino).
He just fell in love with his story of "it's not the high LDL but rather the high ApoB - look how they don't always go hand in hand", and now he's too weak to admit his mistake, because it's neither LDL nor ApoB...
Honestly I'm surprised you're not getting even more opponents like Peter Attia. Expect more to appear. They are just realizing they should start setting up flak cannons to counter your epic bombing raid. Kellogg's, Pepsi, Nestle and many other food companies can afford a lot "experts" to say what they want said.
The big opponent that will come from this specific study is Big Pharma since Nick, Dave and Dr Tro have shown in several case studies that adding a small daily amount of carbs lowers LDL in LMHRs twice as potently as statins. We are talking about drugs that make billions of dollars annually for Big Pharma and we know there are tight connections between Pharma and top medical researchers
I am loving this new age of grass roots science thats not beholden to the establishment. It wasn't long ago that scientists like Nick or Dave feldman would be ridiculed, shunned, and ostracized from the scientific community--no invites, no funding, discredited--just for exploring uncharted science that challenges the official stance on lipidology and nutrition. I commend you, Nick and team for embracing this new space. You won't lack in support (monetary included) from low-carb/keto/carnivore community in wanting more data so that our health/nutrition can be better informed and evolved for optimal living.
The funny thing is, Peter used to be a low-carb proponent. He teamed with Gary Taubes to form the now-defunct Nu-Si (not sure I'm remembering the spelling correctly). But somewhere along the way, Peter decided that prodigious amounts of exercise were the key, and that he could do that, take supplements like rapamycin, and go on eating the things he'd been missing, like sushi and desserts. I followed his website back in the day, and signed up for The Drive when it started. I have since dropped that subscription. I just didn't like the way he was going. And, as this video indicated, I didn't like that he had not only changed his mind, but that he was now contemptuous of those who still believed that carbs are the enemy. Sorry, Peter, but I think you lost your way.
That kind of goes both ways, honestly. I consider myself to be low carb and I am a proponent. I'm guessing about 3/4ths of the people commenting on this video would be horrified by how much carbs I eat, even though it WAY LESS than the average American. About 98% of the time, I'm the most fit person in any given room (I'm typing this about 15 minutes after running my 338th Sunday 5k ). So what if Attia can be healthy and still eat some sushi and a dessert? Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth over someone getting good results without going to extremes begin. The Buddha had this figured out centuries ago. He called it the Middle Way. It's worked extremely well for me. Maybe it works well for Attia, too.
@@jaybanks7718 I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. Peter has a right to eat any damn way he pleases, it's just that he has abandoned the low carb thing entirely and he's disparaging of people who follow it. It's not a " middle way. " There was a time when I could eat all the carbs I wanted to and not gain weight, although I was probably not as healthy as I would have been if I hadn't done that. But you will find with age, that things change. The middle way may not always work for you like it does now.
@@pamsmithson6830 OK, maybe I did. But the latest interview I have seen with Attia, on the Rhonda Patrick podcast, his diet seemed pretty sane to me. The biggest problem I saw was his, "couple of beers." Not happening for me. Outside of that, I didn't hear anything off the charts bad, especially since he works out a little more than me, and I workout every single day (even if that means just walking). Before I ever heard of him, I came up with a very similar workout routine to his on my own. The only thing I haven't been doing that he does is the specific VO2 max training. I used to do some sprinting, but I have slacked on that over the years. Outside of that, every single week is a ten mile bike ride, a Sunday 5k, some time on my rowing machine, walking and lifting weights. Recently, I have been rucking. With anything involving distance, I have logged ~15,000 miles over the last decade. But I get it, I'm not keto, so I'm going to die.
@@jaybanks7718 We're all going to die. There's no getting around that one. No matter what we do, we're not getting out of this alive. it's just about how well you live until that time comes. I believe that metabolic health is the key to the whole enchilada as far as that goes and I don't think you get there without eating an optimal diet. I think Peter does a lot more extreme stuff than what you seem to be talking about. Or at least he used to. And I think he's using it as an excuse to make bad diet choices, assuming that it will cancel them out. I think that's wrong, but we all have to do our own thing and just see how it works. I don't care what he does, but he has a platform and I don't think he should be so arrogant as to put other people down for their choices. And I'm definitely not interested in following his lead along the path that he has now taken. We all have to make our own decisions.
I remember how when I first heard that podcast I was so disappointed in Attia. I too replayed that podcast after your initial data came out to make sure I wasn’t missing something. It was as bad as I remember. Peter has never apologized for it. I follow him closely. Peter is extremely intelligent and most importantly extremely disciplined. Now that he’s fully mainstream he has nothing to gain by taking your bait. Don’t take that the wrong way. I’m glad you did this response as it’s what he deserves. But don’t hold your breath. Thanks for all you do from one LMHR to another.
I unsubscribed from Peter Attia podcast and TH-cam channel after his interview with Dave Feldman. I felt schadenfreude when he later mentioned his anger issues, lower testosterone; I guess all the statins his taking is finally getting to his brain and affecting his hormones. Sorry, I can be mean when a person is such a jerk.
Peter has always got to be the smartest guy in the room, and if you haven’t noticed, he will tell you. I remember hearing his interview with Thomas Seyfried some time ago. He couldn’t refute him, but treated him like an uneducated lab rat. He’s on the payroll of a CGM company as well. What an oily guy.
I really liked Peter and his book. But his ego seems to be preventing him from taking in new information. I find I can’t stand listening to him or watching his videos anymore. He needs a dose of humility. I hope he responds.
As a professor in history of science i would say we today are in the beginning of a paradigm shift in our understanding of cholesterol and cardiovascular diseases. Peter Attia belong to the group that defends the old paradigm. It’s often a new generation of scientists that lays the groundwork for shifting paradigm in science.
I find it interesting that Attia is so set on being right about this, to the point of condescension. He himself has changed his mind on some things over the years as any good scientist should. I think he is doing some really great work in the longevity field, it's a shame that he is so pharma centric that he lets it blind him to any other possibility.
I've worked shiftwork for almost 30 years, taken up diet to treat any issues I had much later than he did and I don't exercise except incidental stuff. I also play computer games and also played outdoor sport for a long time .... funny enough despite him being a few days younger than me he looks much older. Not sure how much of an expert he really is on the subject.
Peter Attia falls in the same category as Sam Harris. Arrogant but most of all intellectually challenged. I listened a lot to this, but eventually I came to the conclusion he's not to be trusted
I was looking for this comment. I was going to say the same thing. They disregard an entire group of people saying they're all/most are idiots. Harris with Maga and Attia with low-carb communities. They have a certain disdain or hate towards these groups.
The problem with Attia is that that he acts as if the science is settled and there is nothing more to learn…. he might like to reflect on the axiom that states that the more you learn the less you know (or can be sure of)…. Equally how did that ‘there is nothing new to invent’ work out for Lord Kelvin at the start of the 20th century…. Nick is widely curious… Attia is sclerotic… I know which one I am backing (hint it’s not the bald one!)….
I don't think its that he thinks the "science is settled" but rather he thinks he is at the forefront of science, and therefore, anyone offering a contrarian view must be based on quackery or outdated/flawed information. He definitely has an ego, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.
I'm enjoying watching this journey of yours unfold, and I'm excited to see where it goes. Keep up the interesting work. These topics are thought provoking, at the least, and paradigm altering, at their peak
Peter Attia = Arrogance. Unfortunately for him he doesn’t realize that eventually he will have to participate because the exactness of science will bring him along or it will leave him at the station.
@@nicknorwitzPhDI agree with ku6819, its true that every successful idea attracts a million glassy-eyed groupies but if you and Dave just keep being falsificationists to make scientific advances then new knowledge will arrive (one way or another) and everyone including Peter will end up having to integrate some or all of it. All of us have pride which I wont condemn, its the way we relate to our pride that determines success. And that means having a pride that tolerates being wrong, that understands the benefits of routinely being wrong besides being right about a bunch of things. My personal heuristic is to see myself as a problem solver in a sea of unknowns, in a sea of problems, which are keys to the locks on good living. I test ideas and accept the results, quickly. The more ideas i test, the more often I will be wrong, and the more success I see. So bring on being wrong and simultaneously I am competing well and living well.
When you are being paid a lot of money to administer advice to other humans that directly affect their current lifespan, having a change in direction can look like you've made a mistake. Either way, Peter needs to be damn sure.
I have a funny feeling we're all LMHR in the right circumstances and I'm glad we're going down this road as the better my health gets in having to fight with my dr about my ldl going up. 3 years ago i was 340lbs and on low fat with 40 mg statin since 19. My ldl was 225 hdl 11 triglycerides 350. Within 2 months no statin and carvivore my ldl was 220 hdl 44 and triglycerides 150. 2 years later i lost 160lbs of fat and put on 50lbs of lean mass my ldl is almost 300 hdl is 66 and triglycerides are 60 and my dr hates to even see me but still says I'm very ill.
Absolutely! The LMHR researchers need to get to this - its not that LDL is not harmful to LMHRs, its not harmful to anyone who is metabolically healthy. It is not an independent risk factornin itself and we would all be LMHR if we were all metabolically healthy.
Wish that Attia would revisit the discussion but suspect it no time soon. Feels like part of his public persona model is aggressively don’t buck the machine. It’s self protection.
Attia reminds me of the 46th Oscars in 1974, which had a man "streak" the stage. After breaking into laughter momentarily, David Niven regained his composure, turned to the audience and quipped, "Well, ladies and gentlemen, that was almost bound to happen... But isn't it fascinating to think that probably the only laugh that man will ever get in his life is by stripping off and showing his shortcomings?" Kudos Nick, for doing and saying what has occurred to some of us, who just didn't want to spend the time and energy to do. I'd noticed the things you address in the video. Cheers!
Peter has so gone over into CICO land that he refuses to engage with any data about keto. It's really wild to see because five to 7 years ago he wouldn't shut up about keto and how he was an ultra responder and how beneficial it was to him. He really is the embodiment of "strong opinions loosely held" it's funny to observe from afar, if he wasn't so influential on what is and is not in the health overton window
I heard in an interview with Peter Attia- they asked him if he drank and if so what was his go to drink? He answered "A specific brand of red wine that I'm not going to say because I don't want people to buy it." That is all I needed to know about Peter Attia.
Peter Attia also raved about some fancy beer he said was the best he’d ever had. It was the only beer he would ever drink. He talked about it multiple times on podcasts and he said the same thing, can’t reveal it because then the supply would dry up for him and his buddies. Very tone deaf.
You are a breath of fresh air in the science world. If you get time can you elaborate on the thyroid and lipid energy model / insulin resistance? I’d love to hear your take.
Nick, science advances one death at a time. When some of these old scientists go the way of the Dodo, science will move forward. You will never change their minds because they are married to their biases, for better or worse.
Peter Attia quit Keto 4 years ago. Then he did not support Intermittent Fasting. Reasons he cited were mostly personal like he missed curry sauce on rice ... I am into Gerontology and Immunology research work in Asia in the past 18 years, now based in Singapore. I advocate a low carb whole foods diet with more focus on the Japanese raw prescatarian, enzymatic foods, probiotic and fermented foods, without grains and starchy vegetables. When it comes to fasting regimen, I put my thumbs up and embrace it wholly: be it 3 - 5 days of water fasting or IF done 16:8 to 20:4. Personally, i do a 4 hour "mindful" eating window daily of clean and nutrient dense foods. Once a fortnight, i will go for dairy and dark chocolates and almonds in (small portions) as my feelgood "childhood comfort" cheat snacks that i give myself to boost "dopamine" level. I also go for spicy foods quite often instead of caffeine to boost the "endorphins high" as a form of stimulus for neuron receptors, preliminary findings to prevent cognitive decline such as dementia. Anyway, our Japanese and Asia longevity research throws more interesting facts in support of a lower carb diet with autophagic benefits from fasting regimes.
About 12 years ago or more (losing track) Attia was pro keto and was one of the people who convinced me to try it. I watched his Ted Talk, read his posts on his website (then Eating Academy I believe) and videos performing HIIT in a low carb state. Even though he seems to have changed his mind, since I have been weight stable for years now and have a CAC of 0 I guess I feel like I do have a strong bias built on a foundation partially laid by him. Thanks for your work Nick, Dave and crew!
This is fun to watch. I'm also keeping my eye on Croissant Diet guy, Brad Marshall, (who is posting interesting stuff every few months on the saturated / unsaturated fat switch that bounces animals in and out of Springtime 'emergence' (high saturated fats, like stearic acid, as found in Elk flesh... winter kill food of bears), and torpor (found in autumn fats, high in MUFAs and PUFAs, like acorns, certain ants, etc.), respectively. The torpor inducing MUFAs & PUFAs make animals fat. These fat switches are apparently 600 millions years old... found even in nematodes. AND... Dr. Anthony Jay, who wrote Estrogeneration (he's an ex-Mayo clinic researcher)... great genetic analysis knowledge and advice on how to steer clear of feminizing chemicals (no insult intended, females, ;).
Some time ago I stopped paying attention to Attia. He struck me as a weak thinker with a good schtick that he wanted to work for cash while not inconveniencing himself too much with real metabolic science. This video, recapping verbatim name calling and the confabulations he indulges in encapsulate my impression. I suspect that you're too scary for him, Nick. Keep up the good work.
Nick: You are an obvious genius and a person who believes in challenging much of the medical dogma that exists today. I have lost a lot of my respect for Peter Attia based upon his treatment of Dave Feldman. And that respect was at one time very high. at times Peter seems to lapse into thinking that the answer to many or all chronic diseases involves find the right pharmaceutical therapy. I call it the "pill for every ill philosophy"! Does Peter hold shares of stock in large pharma? It would be interesting to know the answer to that question. I am an 80-year-old retired physician. A ketogenic diet has resolved my Type II diabetes, resolved my hypertension, and it has lowered my TGs to 60 from 150 and raised my HDL from 42 to 60. My LDL has risen, and I do not care. Finally, all of my Seasonal Affective Disorder symptoms which I have had since my teens have resolved. And my weight has gone from 208 to 158. I am a carbohydrate addict which developed slowly over many years but which I only realized in 2019. I think that in some substantial measure the postponement or the slowing or even the treatment and of most chronic diseases. Perhaps the most important factors to reduce chronic diseases really does involve those two dreaded words "Diet and Exercise"?!!Keep up your incredible work and God Bless.
I love that you have been reaching out to established experts in the field. The more people who get interested, the faster the science will advance, leading to a more contextual understanding of the subject. Also, love that you are doing real science. Observe something novel, use Occam's razor to form a hypothesis, and then try to disprove your hypothesis since a hypothesis can never be proven. Science advances most when a hypothesis is disproven.
Nick, I applaud you for what you’re doing for us, patients. I wish you were my family physician. I also appreciate Dave’s hard work running various researches and his educational impact on our wellbeing. Way to go, Gentlemen! 🙏😘
Peter is on three prescriptions to lower his APO B to 30 or so. I'm interested in seeing what happens to people who do this....I suspect it won't be good.
There is recently a quickening of people seeing lies for what they are. You are a key player in dismantling this one. The world is going to get very dark, but so much truth is coming out there is a lot to be hopeful for. Keep up the great work, Nicholas!
People are no longer willing to trust any established body of thought blindly, after being consistently lied to for decades, culminating in the global coof juice rollout
@@dreaminginnootherMy actual point was that all cult leaders start out seeming this way. Some of them probably never intended to become a cult leader. I'm sure Peter Attia doesn't think of himself as a cult leader, yet here we are...
The conversation with Peter will not happen for one of 2 reasons... 1) He's researching ways to to possibly disqualify your findings altogether, or 2) He knows that this information means that he may have to accept a new hypothesis. Either way, the biggest conversation blocker right now appears to be ego! What a shame for scientific progress! P.S. I can't remember, are eggs good for you or bad for you this year? 😆
Thank you for the content. I think the direction you are headed fills a void in the current knowledge base and I’m happy you and others who are experts are seeking to research and find out how these results relate to our blood tests. I have been waiting for a long time for the conventional LDL wisdom to address the Keto et all low carb population. I am thankful for Peter too. He has served to bring a big voice to the concept of medicine 3.0 and doing what we can in a preventative mindset. That alone is worth the direction change for many of us and to Peter I am thankful for his contribution in that direction.
I've heard enough negatives from Peter that I prefer to not even listen to him anymore. Perhaps the best interview I watched from him is when he did a video interviewing the late Dr Sarah Hallberg.
Great video! I’ve been hoping to get Peter Atias thoughts on the new lean mass hyper responder and CCTA data. Not only because I would just find the discussion interesting but also because he now has a mass audience that should be aware of this new data.
Stick to your guns Nick! You, Dave et al are doing a great job looking at the LEM / lean mass hyper responders! Love you logic and calm demeanour calling out poor thinking…. Keep up the great work! 👍👍👍
@@nicknorwitzPhD Yeah, exactly. False humility, used to exaggerate the credibility and importance of those "smartest people on the planet". It's a transparent appeal to authority. As if "established science" has never been upended in the history of history. It does not want to be upended either, it RESISTS STRONGLY. Prediction: Next he'll be making the argument, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." This is entirely false, and something Carl Sagan should never have uttered. How about just "proof"? It's either proof or it isn't. I first saw through this fallacy when Lance Armstrong tried to use it against whistleblowers in the bicycle racing scene. They had the goods, they had proof. But Lance deflected attention to the matter for quite some time with the "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". Why not just "proof", Lance?
Keep going Nick…and Keep reaching out to the vastly experienced “old guard” (as you say 7.3 minutes). They’re clearly not to be dismissed…and more likely to listen if your rational, reasonable approach continues just as it is.
I’m very impressed with your scientific method. As a board-certified fellowship trained surgeon with nearly 30 years in clinical practice and textbook author published in 13 languages , I find Peter Atia’s eloquent-sounding but often factually incorrect statements a bit schizophrenic to try to follow . Ignore his noise….eg Ancel Keys.Folllow the science In one breath of his book he says that that by far away the very best road to longevity and health span is to improve your exercise level and VO2 max going from the bottom sedentary quartile to the VO2 max of top 10% world class athlete. That’s the “best way to increase your longevity and lifespan” and he’s very very dismissive of nutrition and dietary mods and studies in multiple parts of the book and podcasts This assertion comes just a few pages after his description/admission of being super athletic and very physically fit (yet clearly metabolically unhealthy) capable of swimming across a multi mile cold swim in San Francisco Bay and getting out the water and his wife telling him he needs to lose some weight and become thin Peter. So Peter,how is that “calories in calories out “ model of tons of exercise and a dazzling wonderful VO2 max but clearly a crappy diet of Coca-Cola and highly processed foods with insulin resistance syndrome and a fatty liver and hypertension etc ……all SAD diet induced …..how is that working for you there big boy? He also wants to put everybody that has elevated LDL in some of his talks (and other ones patients with elevated artherogenic Apo B particles) on one or MULTIPLE STATINS AT HIGH DOSES IN ORDER TO GET the ATHEROGENIC PARTICLES DOWN TO CHILDHOOD LEVELS. No mention of low carb diet to decrease the upstream glycemic spikes to the liver and resultant insulin spikes, and downstream insulin resistance syndrome. APPARENTLY HE’S NEVER READ THE MULTIPLE STUDIES SHOWING THAT LDL CHOLESTEROL IS 80% FLUFFY AND INNOCUOUS AND Only 20% OF IT IS small DENSITY OXIDIZED LDL …… Or that statins cause multiple side effects, including cognitive loss that’s reversible with cessation of statins etc Or that longevity and survival rates are inversely correlated with LDL levels and people over 60 (because cholesterol is needed to help fight infection and cancer and for cognitive function) live longer with higher LDL levels We were discussing longevity, correct? Or that statins are a trillion dollar industry for the drug companies, yet far more accurate biomarkers/indicator of potential impending major cardiovascular events or measures of metabolic health, would be triglycerides /HDL ratio or a fasting insulin test and post prandial insulin level or a HOMA IR as indicators of underlying metabolic health, ie not having insulin resistance syndrome which is the upstream root cause in combination with highly oxidated, mitochondrial damaging, poly unsaturated fatty acids also found highly processed foods aka diet…… insulin resistance syndrome being an important root cause of all of the top 10 preventable causes of death in US and the west in 2024, except for suicide The obesity epidemic in the west (after 50 years of failure the “calories in calories out model” failure advocated by Peter )is a downstream manifestation of a dietary excess of highly processed foods containing excess fructose, leading to hexokinase induced loss of ATP to ADP to AMP to uric acid to mitochondrial death and slowing of the metabolism, insulin resistance syndrome with downstreamhypertension, metabolic syndrome, type two diabetes, hyperglycemia, hyperinsulinanemia , non alcoholic fatty liver disease, atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease Obesity and obesity related cancer etc Triglycerides are a product of dietary carbohydrates by the way. Not ldl Multiple study saying that elevated LDL has a hazard factor of 1.3 compared to triglyceride to HDL ratio with a hazard ratio of 1.8 Hey Peter overweight guy and metabolically unhealthy getting out of the frigid Pacific Drinking a Coca-Cola and slamming a Taco Bell with its oxidizing, poly unsaturated fats and excess fructose and no fiber, causing an immediate glycemic response in the liver………… then big insulin response then IRS ….don’t be quite so dismissive of diet or the carbohydrate insulin model ‘’And maybe so in love with V02max. If you’re exhibiting scientific method and reading all the studies Exercise is important for resistance training to act as a glucose sink with more skeleton muscle for glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity and HIIT type exercise for mitochondrial autophagy and biogenesis. Being dismissive of diet/ insulin resistance syndrome seems to border on moronic Expressing the desire to put everybody on a statin down to pre teenage levels is absurd Pitching a $165.00 a month novel pendulum supplement for causing microbiome bacteria to produce butarate/Ketones with 5 minutes of clinical use and studies on the supplement And pitching statins shown to increase survival rate by only four days with a high complication rate from them …while dismissing low carb mods ………smacks a bit of selling out to big Pharma and spreading mis information for money……that’s been a problem with medicine 2.0 that Peter is so smug and dismisive of and condescending to its inadequacies As a PhD and a medical student, always beware of the derisive guy who either quit during his training in general surgery or was fired, and completely got out of medicine and elected to work in lucrative bankstatistics and risk management until the banking industry went under and came back and wrote a book , with a lot of inconsistencies and obvious lack of understanding of some of the general tenets of medicine and then started treating some small micro niche of super affluent patients at $150,000 a year per patient. If you’re gonna be that guy and you’re going to throw lots of rocks at the 2.0 boat and be dismissive and condescending about true scientific method ……the rocks your hurling should be really really accurate and scientifically studied and on point if you’re gonna throw them at physicians with 30 years of experience taking care of patients in the trenches rather than the sexy boardroom with Italian suits , daily trying to sift through multi million dollar misinformation campaigns propagated from the American heart Association and big food and big Pharma down in those trenches. Scientific method involves formulating a hypothesis and studying it to see if it is correct or not and then repeating and following the scientific truth . Not hawking a $165 a month supplement with your left hand and throwing rocks with your right
It does seem like a case of projecting from what I just heard. It really isn't logical at all that there would be; seemingly, no curiosity around these findings. I do think; however, that it won't stop or slow any progress with so so many highly regarded experts in this field coming forward with encouragement and curiosity themselves of where this all goes. To me this is a hallmark of a great scientist, physician, seeker of truth and knowledge. 🙏
Dave is into science not into ad hominem. He can actually totally ignore Peter's nastiness since it does not further their discussion. Peter can not do that, and so he has nothing to add.
My reaction too. Dr Seyfried is a gentleman so I can't imagine him stooping to Peter's level in reply but I've yet to hear the podcast. Time to do some keyboard research. @@donnahelps5680
OK, 2hours and 48minutes later I've listened to Peter's podcast interview with Professor Thomas Seyfried, not as bad as I had expected but it was 5 or 6 years ago.
oh Nick bless your heart. I'm sorry you were hoaxed into thinking Peter cares about reality. He only cares about what continues his grift. When you reframe your view of his comments it becomes crystal clear.
Some times I follow all the geek info regarding this pursuit for a optimum human nutrition. When I do listen, I become fascinated by the range of truths, denials about the truths, and the drama that engulf the general listeners such as me, who find themselves in the midst of what may or may not be a permanent solution to our nutrition life styles. Thanks for your videos.
I read some criticisms from clinicians on twitter/X about your recent meta analysis of 41 trials. They were criticizing the use of a meta regression as it's equivalent to observational studies in regards to evidential strength which I was unaware of. It still seems like a well conducted study after reading it. Some were also pointing out that it still showed that SFA increased LDL-c in every BMI subset, but from my understanding the study wasn't refuting the effect of SFA intake on LDL-c but was rather trying to show that LDL-c change was affected more by having a lean BMI than SFA when on a low carb diet. I'd be interested to hear what you think about this!
I have a BMI of 19 with an LDL of 184. My triglycerides and HDL are in the range with a reversed type 2 diabetes (A1C of 9.6 dropped to 5.5 in 3 months without meds following a healthy lifestyle and low-carb diet). My doctor graded my lab results A+ then changed it to A- when he couldn't convince me to take statins 😅
@@mitochondriac5946not necessary, but some people that can't stick to low carb, whether from lack of willpower or any other reason. Replacing junk food carbs to potatoes and fruit helps so many people lose/ maintain a healthy weight
Of course, not all carbs are equal. That's a no-brainer. I get a few carbs from eggs and dairy. For many people, anything sweet or starchy is a slippery slope. Mashed potatoes are my favorite food. I have to abstain. I have no self-control when it comes to potatoes. 😅
The part of this video that really resonated with me is the reminder not to assume that things that look the same across a certain feature set are in fact the same. I guess it goes even beyond genotype vs phenotype to questions of what and how we are measuring. I think it’s important general life advice, too! Within a group of items that look similar in some respects (e.g. high LDL in this case) there could be two or more subgroups, that in fact would appear very different if we just knew what to measure to see those distinctions. And *everyone* in the scientific community would benefit from being able to disambiguate the subgroups, because it would likely lead to greater group homogeneity amongst each of the subgroups, and therefore hopefully stronger statistical results for studies considering any of the subgroups. Conversely, by willfully ignoring the existence of distinct subgroups, you could end up with really watered-down results, as disparate individuals within the wider group would average each other out and make the effects seem weaker than they really are. So, the end result for closed-minded scientists could be becoming less successful (in terms of actual impact-not status, accolades or compensation) than they might have been if they had approached things with a more open mind. Keep on keeping yours open, Nick!
Peter did a solid job of describing your approach to grasping at straws trying to generate data that confirms your biases. You’ve failed to do that thus far and you’ll likely never succeed. It’s a poor way to conduct research and your TH-cam content is misleading thousands of people in this process
You can't see the irony? Special interest groups, pharma and other huge corporations have been 'generating data' for decades. These pro keto studies are junk science, but so is literally every other paper on nutrition anyway.
So, here's what Dave and Nick have done / are doing: - made observation (high LDL when keto if low BMI) - reviewed relevant literature - created hypothesis (Lipid Energy Model and LMHR phenotype) - performing studies to test hypothesis, attempting to disprove it - involving their peers in scientific community along the way - allowing the interested public to witness science in action (with explanations about what can and cannot be inferred from the studies) via the wondrous marvel of the internet They are just doing and showing science. Where in this is the bias? Where in this is the straw-grasping? Where in this is the misleading? I've noted your other comments about misunderstandings that laypeople may have, and while your concern comes from a good place, you're placing a responsibility on Nick that is impossible for him or any public speaker to meet. It's true that public speakers of any kind (politician, journalist, scientist, etc) should speak with consideration of the impact of their words, but no one can 100% "control the narrative". Nick has acted and communicated responsibly - what people may or may not take away from his words and what they do is ultimately out of his hands.
@@saintwithatie Nick has not “acted and communicated responsibly” by any means. He is not just doing and showcasing science. He creates clickbait titles for every video and purposefully misrepresents the data in ways his more credentialed colleagues refuse to do. If his actions were as straight forward as you’ve laid out, then yes, there’s little reason to raise concern about his behavior, but what he’s been doing in actuality is promoting his biases and twisting the data or lack thereof to confirm those biases. The research being done is important and interesting, but how it is being communicated on TH-cam is a disservice to the public.
I believe that the Emperor’s new clothes will soon be evident to him, if not already. It wii undoubtedly take a lot longer for it to be admitted to though…if it ever is at all!
@@connymitander5906 if you're only drinking straight spirits, sure many have zero carbs, the amount of calories of energy can still dump you out of ketosis. Robbing you of one of the main benefits of a LC WOE.
I've been following your work with great interest, Nick. I think it could be revolutionary. I have one nagging question, though. If it turns out through these trials that low carb raises LDL but not heart disease risk in LMHR populations, what are the consequences for the rest of us non-LMHR low carbers?
Peter Attia doesn't have the courage to admit when he is wrong. Such a small person who just can't admit he is wrong. He's on the pharmaceutical payroll now Cares more about money than science? Kinda like Ancel Keys.
![ภาพนี้ก็ฮาเหมือนกันนะเนี้ย #2 SS8 [ พากย์นรก MEME.EXE ] | easy boy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RMhUgxxD49Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Keep fighting the fight. I'm so happy I'm alive to witness this hypothesis that has been driving public health education for decades begin to crumble.
Thanks... will do!
Me too!!! Go Team Nick!!!
Same, amazing effort. Make me love science again.
Attia is often wrong but never uncertain. I would be surprised if he opened his mind.
Hmmmm
That is a great epigram. I'm going to use it a lot and attribute it to somebody from Philadelphia.
That was my observation about him.
Attia is often wrong but never uncertain. I’m going to frame that one. So very true.
Often wrong but never uncertain.
Lmao very nice
I respected Peter prior to how disrespectfully he treated Dave Feldman on his podcast a few years back. Since then, I expect him to throw tantrums when the establishment is questioned.
I respected him too, but he is not open to new data. That is not science works. His book Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity was published last year. I haven't read it, but from one of his interview, I think he does mention lowering ApoB with pharmaceutical menas, which he is doing in his life. It would be hard for him to change his point of view. But if he did, i would respect him a lot more. 😃
I never respected him and always thought it was weird that anyone did. I could tell what type of person he was from that TED talk he gave.
@@johngosnell3847 I wish I had your ability to perceive this. His TED Talk is how I originally got into keto. I used to respect him. I no longer do. He is somehow just too full of himself.
I made a similar comment on a Dr. Boz video about Attia. Got a thumbs up from her.
Same here. Really liked Peter's perspectives until the Dave debate.
That’s how humans work. 🫤
Who cares? Ignore Peter Attia. Just stick to the science.
Not wise to ignore such influential content creator.
Peter Attia has a lot of good things to say; I don’t _want_ to ignore him. However, he has an _incredible_ ego, which I take into account when I listen to him.
Recent new findings are driven by scientists outside of the fields being questioned! Counter to what Peter presents, most scientific fields need to question their own adherence to scientific methods!! He’s turned to be an egotistical a$$hat! I used to follow him, but I can’t stomach his arrogant condescension….BTW, I am an n of one…I am healthier than I have been in my entire life…including childhood!
Carnivore has made my depression 95% better. I sleep better. I have my cycle back (lost it completely for years due to PCOS). And I’ve lost 60 lbs or so. I’ve been told my whole life that I have heart disease in my family. I can’t ever see myself going back to what I was eating before carnivore.
Peter Attia doesn’t ignore science. This is the way science works. It isn’t always clear who’s right when new data emerges at the outset.
Peter spent a long time writing his book... I guess he doesn't want to re-write it.
@@kelvliximab2362 Yeah, Prof. Noakes is a real hero in the low-carb community. Disgusting how the high and mighty tried to ruin him.
😂
Lol
"I guess he doesn't want to re-write it."
I wonder, you propably haven't read Kuhn's "The structure of scientific revolutions". You probably should because this is exactly how science (from a sociological point of view) works...
@@btudrus I was being sarcastic, everyone else seems to have understood that...
I'm surprised at Peter's call to authority as if none of us are capable of actually reading and comprehending all of the studies of the last 80 years trying (and mostly failing) to prove the lipid hypothesis and demonize saturated fats. No, Peter, we think like this BECAUSE we've read these studies and we've seen the results first hand in our own n=1 trial. We won't just take some "expert's" word on the subject.
Bravo 👏
He displays pure arrogance
Peter has run away from the challenge to debate a qualified person. Mind you Dave Feldman has also avoided Bart Kay maybe because Bart is 'mean on the internet'.... realise that Dayspring is far worse yet they still want to talk with him and he is a numpty.
@@scottw2317 I don't blame any of them for not wanting to speak with Bart. Love the information, hate the way that he chooses to communicate it.
n=1 is not a good trial. sorry to say that
@@user-cf5cy8rb5y Really? I've often found that my own n=1 trials are 100% the best because those are the ones that, selfishly, help me and change my life for the better. I understand your point about being wary of other people's n=1 trials but that doesn't mean that they have no value. A lot of times, an n=1 is a "conversation starter" and once you have 10,000 or 100,000 n=1 studies such as I see in say, the Carnivore Diet, well, then you begin to have a hypothesis. Imagine if we had 80 years and billions of dollars that actually compared a true Carnivore Diet to a true Ketogenic Diet to a true Mediteranean Diet to a true Vegetarian Diet... instead of just 80 years of trying to prove that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad. I'm certainly open to changing my mind but I want to see a "fair", well defined study.
I’ve always thought Peter Attia was arrogant and fairly closed-minded
Peter Attia King of the Humble Brag and Name Dropper Supreme
What’s ironic is Peter Attia even had a podcast on Cognitive Dissonance. I suspect the Oreo experiment irritated Peter’s mind.
@@tomunderwood4283 he makes a good example of a professional Dunning Kruger. It is sad to see these types whether is be Attia, Layne Norton etc have such pull when they get things so wrong at a basic level.
absolutely he is total undersientific. he is so bias it hurts to listen to him sometime.
Agreed. Coming from a long line of very smart men, who know they're smart, but sometimes aren't able to believe (truly) that they aren't the smartest in the room, I recognized his arrogance immediately.
A God complex is not admirable for those in medicine. Peter just can't handle the paradigm shift.
Attia's ego camouflages insecuity. He whines because he knows he is being out-debated. The Oreo cookie challenge is reproducible, and hence verifiable. It is *science.*
@@konradx498I used to watch Attia quite a bit and the insecurity oozed through every one of his videos to the point of being cringy. It is fine and even admirable for one to display vulnerability.
However, he immediately shifts into arrogant bully mood when he finds himself standing on shaky ground fighting a pathetic rear guard action for conventional views on the topic.
I find his efforts even more pathetic in that he seems to be motivated primarily by being accepted in his community. He will challenge convention on the fringes but will fight tooth and nail to protect anything that is a core principle even without an argument to support his defense.
Not admirable but very common
@@konradx498But what does the Oreo cookie challenge have to do with all the evidence that shows the longest living people eat a prominently plant based diet high in carbs?
@limitisillusion7 What evidence?
I am grateful that these guys are pursuing the LMHR model! After 3 years since my husband and I starting Keto morphed into Carnivore, we finally got blood panels done and everything is great except both of us have high LDL and despite that all the other cholesterol numbers indicate low heart disease risk, our doctor is suggesting we might want to consider a statin. If we hadn’t already been up on this study happening, we might have really questioned if eating carnivore is the right thing to do. We are 70 and 65 yso, athletic and thanks to carnivore, lean mass😊. It is time for Peter to catch up.
Saw a podcast the other day on a completely different subject, but something the scientist said can apply here as well.
"I'd rather have questions without answers- than answers that can't be questioned."
Thankful that you and your colleagues keep asking all the questions. 👍🏻
Attia being a proponent of, and taking statins tells me all i need to know about his level of understanding.
Yeah lol very wacky imo which is just that
Send him some Oreos!
@@aliceludwig8234 Now THAT'S funny! :) Thanks.
@@aliceludwig8234 haha 😄 yessss
@@aliceludwig8234 🤣🤣🤣
Whenever I see Peter Attia appear on TH-cam as a speaker, I just click 'Not Interested ' or ' Do Not Recommend.'
Me too!
Why, he has great insight. He may be wrong but he may also be right. If you shut him out, how are you any different?
I just don't want to waste my time. Do you get it?
He is wrong on heart disease and cancer,excluding those 2 he may be right !!!!!.A flip flopping gate keeper in my view.Everyone has a price it seems and Peter knows his.@@thehalfacrepasture
@@thehalfacrepasture No he dose not . He dose not understand a lot of what he talks about
Brilliantly said Nick! Thank goodness for people like you and Dave and Mathew and others. People like Peter Attia are actually hindering progression of the science in this regard. He seems prepared to die on his Thomas Dayspring monument.
They say science progresses one funeral at a time
Thank you again Dr. Norwitz… I love what you are doing for all of us physicians who have always questioned this dogma on lipids. In the past I have been disappointed with Peter for his views on this topic and am glad to not be alone. Looking forward to more of your work!
thanks!
@nicknorwitzPhD , doc, why aren't "experts" recommending potassium supplementation??
All I hear about is magnesium!?
It's quite a challenge to get 4700 mgs. of potassium within a 2000 to 3000 calorie budget. Why are no experts recommending potassium???
You can keep trying, but you need to understand that Peter Attia’s personality has ZERO capacity to be proven wrong.
🤨We will see...
I don't think this is fair. Peter has shown that he can very publicly admit he was wrong. His TED talk and the apology he gave to one of his diabetic patients many years ago proves it. I believe he can do it again, but it's hard. I hope he will respond @nicknorwitzPhD th-cam.com/video/sjJrXHWLP_M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=N1ofitlPO9HZLjnF&t=814
@@PedroTeixeira” the apology..he gave a many years ago “ … the guy is one of the most arrogant people in the space, he will finally be forced to admit he was wrong but it’ll be years after people that leave the ego at the door landed on the right answer.
Some people only change when it's popular to do so. Others are willing to stand alone or with a select few
I'm having a lot of fun watching this unfold! You have the LMHR people politely asking questions, and the lipid community telling them their questions have no merit. They are told to go sit at the kids table and stop disturbing the adults. So the LMHR people fund studies which appear to show things that can't be explained by the lipid community. The LMHR people politely ask more questions. The lipid community again says the questions have no merit, but the people saying that look a little more silly each time.
Time flies, kids become adults, and adults become old-timers.
Well said! I remember that podcast that Dave was on and I cringed after some of the things Peter said to Dave. I was amazed at how professionally Dave handled it. We dont know a lot of things, maybe Peter will realize this one day.
I'm surprised Peter left the podcast on when it makes him look so bad.
If one does a little research on Peter's history, he was once a big time Low Carb advocate and he scientifically proved how low Carb changed his life and health for the better. I've seen him absolutely in tears apologizing for his past medical mistakes after learning what health benefits the Low Carb Diet had provided him and his recent patients. However what he eventually discovered is that his new passion did not get him any credit with ACADEMIA so he found he had to buddy up with the Elite and back peddle his way into the ARROGANT CRONIES who, like Peter, love to spew their academic B.S. just to hear themselves pontificate!!!!!
Probably bought out. He would not be the only one.
That’s a bit of a stretch.
It isn't common but it does happen. Perlmutter somewhat 'betrayed' the low carb scientific community to follow his ideological roots (rather than academic 'profit' and fame). He still says sugar is bad, carbs are bad, anti-nutrients are an issue etc then makes rubbish up about meat and says we should eat a plant based diet. There are an ever increasing number of people moving into the low carb sphere and it isn't going to be isolated from those who seek fame or to remain in their ideological wheelhouse or even that they were so extreme (warned of this) and end up no longer being low carb (an example Saladino).
He just fell in love with his story of "it's not the high LDL but rather the high ApoB - look how they don't always go hand in hand", and now he's too weak to admit his mistake, because it's neither LDL nor ApoB...
He left low carb mainly because he said it was just too inconvenient and boring. The rest of what you wrote is just total crap 🤣👍
Honestly I'm surprised you're not getting even more opponents like Peter Attia. Expect more to appear. They are just realizing they should start setting up flak cannons to counter your epic bombing raid. Kellogg's, Pepsi, Nestle and many other food companies can afford a lot "experts" to say what they want said.
They can’t afford me…
The big opponent that will come from this specific study is Big Pharma since Nick, Dave and Dr Tro have shown in several case studies that adding a small daily amount of carbs lowers LDL in LMHRs twice as potently as statins. We are talking about drugs that make billions of dollars annually for Big Pharma and we know there are tight connections between Pharma and top medical researchers
@@nicknorwitzPhDYou truly picked the right ammo when you chose Oreos 😂
Awesome just love your work .
@@nicknorwitzPhD
I have always found Peter Attia condescending. He seems to already know it all and has no room for additional or new information.
I am loving this new age of grass roots science thats not beholden to the establishment. It wasn't long ago that scientists like Nick or Dave feldman would be ridiculed, shunned, and ostracized from the scientific community--no invites, no funding, discredited--just for exploring uncharted science that challenges the official stance on lipidology and nutrition. I commend you, Nick and team for embracing this new space. You won't lack in support (monetary included) from low-carb/keto/carnivore community in wanting more data so that our health/nutrition can be better informed and evolved for optimal living.
Congratulations for the courage! And about your final conclusion I agree 100%. Here from a cardiologist
I see you!
The funny thing is, Peter used to be a low-carb proponent. He teamed with Gary Taubes to form the now-defunct Nu-Si (not sure I'm remembering the spelling correctly). But somewhere along the way, Peter decided that prodigious amounts of exercise were the key, and that he could do that, take supplements like rapamycin, and go on eating the things he'd been missing, like sushi and desserts.
I followed his website back in the day, and signed up for The Drive when it started. I have since dropped that subscription. I just didn't like the way he was going. And, as this video indicated, I didn't like that he had not only changed his mind, but that he was now contemptuous of those who still believed that carbs are the enemy. Sorry, Peter, but I think you lost your way.
Same….
That kind of goes both ways, honestly. I consider myself to be low carb and I am a proponent. I'm guessing about 3/4ths of the people commenting on this video would be horrified by how much carbs I eat, even though it WAY LESS than the average American. About 98% of the time, I'm the most fit person in any given room (I'm typing this about 15 minutes after running my 338th Sunday 5k ). So what if Attia can be healthy and still eat some sushi and a dessert? Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth over someone getting good results without going to extremes begin. The Buddha had this figured out centuries ago. He called it the Middle Way. It's worked extremely well for me. Maybe it works well for Attia, too.
@@jaybanks7718 I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. Peter has a right to eat any damn way he pleases, it's just that he has abandoned the low carb thing entirely and he's disparaging of people who follow it. It's not a " middle way. "
There was a time when I could eat all the carbs I wanted to and not gain weight, although I was probably not as healthy as I would have been if I hadn't done that. But you will find with age, that things change. The middle way may not always work for you like it does now.
@@pamsmithson6830 OK, maybe I did. But the latest interview I have seen with Attia, on the Rhonda Patrick podcast, his diet seemed pretty sane to me. The biggest problem I saw was his, "couple of beers." Not happening for me. Outside of that, I didn't hear anything off the charts bad, especially since he works out a little more than me, and I workout every single day (even if that means just walking). Before I ever heard of him, I came up with a very similar workout routine to his on my own. The only thing I haven't been doing that he does is the specific VO2 max training. I used to do some sprinting, but I have slacked on that over the years. Outside of that, every single week is a ten mile bike ride, a Sunday 5k, some time on my rowing machine, walking and lifting weights. Recently, I have been rucking. With anything involving distance, I have logged ~15,000 miles over the last decade. But I get it, I'm not keto, so I'm going to die.
@@jaybanks7718 We're all going to die. There's no getting around that one. No matter what we do, we're not getting out of this alive. it's just about how well you live until that time comes. I believe that metabolic health is the key to the whole enchilada as far as that goes and I don't think you get there without eating an optimal diet.
I think Peter does a lot more extreme stuff than what you seem to be talking about. Or at least he used to. And I think he's using it as an excuse to make bad diet choices, assuming that it will cancel them out. I think that's wrong, but we all have to do our own thing and just see how it works.
I don't care what he does, but he has a platform and I don't think he should be so arrogant as to put other people down for their choices. And I'm definitely not interested in following his lead along the path that he has now taken.
We all have to make our own decisions.
I remember how when I first heard that podcast I was so disappointed in Attia. I too replayed that podcast after your initial data came out to make sure I wasn’t missing something. It was as bad as I remember. Peter has never apologized for it. I follow him closely. Peter is extremely intelligent and most importantly extremely disciplined. Now that he’s fully mainstream he has nothing to gain by taking your bait. Don’t take that the wrong way. I’m glad you did this response as it’s what he deserves. But don’t hold your breath. Thanks for all you do from one LMHR to another.
I unsubscribed from Peter Attia podcast and TH-cam channel after his interview with Dave Feldman. I felt schadenfreude when he later mentioned his anger issues, lower testosterone; I guess all the statins his taking is finally getting to his brain and affecting his hormones. Sorry, I can be mean when a person is such a jerk.
I listened to one podcast he did with Rhonda Patrick and was immediately turned off by him.
You're allowed to be mean...when you're correct, in my book.
You should unsubscribe from Feldman instead
Peter has always got to be the smartest guy in the room, and if you haven’t noticed, he will tell you. I remember hearing his interview with Thomas Seyfried some time ago. He couldn’t refute him, but treated him like an uneducated lab rat. He’s on the payroll of a CGM company as well. What an oily guy.
well he called himself a knucklehead so...
I need to find that podcast!
I really liked Peter and his book. But his ego seems to be preventing him from taking in new information. I find I can’t stand listening to him or watching his videos anymore. He needs a dose of humility. I hope he responds.
Me too
As a professor in history of science i would say we today are in the beginning of a paradigm shift in our understanding of cholesterol and cardiovascular diseases. Peter Attia belong to the group that defends the old paradigm. It’s often a new generation of scientists that lays the groundwork for shifting paradigm in science.
sees like it from my POV
I find it interesting that Attia is so set on being right about this, to the point of condescension. He himself has changed his mind on some things over the years as any good scientist should. I think he is doing some really great work in the longevity field, it's a shame that he is so pharma centric that he lets it blind him to any other possibility.
I've worked shiftwork for almost 30 years, taken up diet to treat any issues I had much later than he did and I don't exercise except incidental stuff. I also play computer games and also played outdoor sport for a long time .... funny enough despite him being a few days younger than me he looks much older. Not sure how much of an expert he really is on the subject.
Peter Attia falls in the same category as Sam Harris. Arrogant but most of all intellectually challenged. I listened a lot to this, but eventually I came to the conclusion he's not to be trusted
Excellent comparison.
I was looking for this comment. I was going to say the same thing. They disregard an entire group of people saying they're all/most are idiots. Harris with Maga and Attia with low-carb communities. They have a certain disdain or hate towards these groups.
Tell me more about the failings of Sam Harris. I thought he was supposed to be a public intellectual.
to be fair to Sam Harris, his brain got short-circuited after one too many high-dose experiments :)
The problem with Attia is that that he acts as if the science is settled and there is nothing more to learn…. he might like to reflect on the axiom that states that the more you learn the less you know (or can be sure of)…. Equally how did that ‘there is nothing new to invent’ work out for Lord Kelvin at the start of the 20th century…. Nick is widely curious… Attia is sclerotic… I know which one I am backing (hint it’s not the bald one!)….
I don't think its that he thinks the "science is settled" but rather he thinks he is at the forefront of science, and therefore, anyone offering a contrarian view must be based on quackery or outdated/flawed information. He definitely has an ego, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.
I'm enjoying watching this journey of yours unfold, and I'm excited to see where it goes. Keep up the interesting work. These topics are thought provoking, at the least, and paradigm altering, at their peak
No plans to stop… maybe in 2100 I’ll take a break
As long as you are continually trying to build bridges and keep doors open, you are doing your part.
Peter Attia = Arrogance. Unfortunately for him he doesn’t realize that eventually he will have to participate because the exactness of science will bring him along or it will leave him at the station.
Seems to be trending that way…
@@nicknorwitzPhD a nice formulation 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@nicknorwitzPhDI agree with ku6819, its true that every successful idea attracts a million glassy-eyed groupies but if you and Dave just keep being falsificationists to make scientific advances then new knowledge will arrive (one way or another) and everyone including Peter will end up having to integrate some or all of it. All of us have pride which I wont condemn, its the way we relate to our pride that determines success. And that means having a pride that tolerates being wrong, that understands the benefits of routinely being wrong besides being right about a bunch of things. My personal heuristic is to see myself as a problem solver in a sea of unknowns, in a sea of problems, which are keys to the locks on good living. I test ideas and accept the results, quickly. The more ideas i test, the more often I will be wrong, and the more success I see. So bring on being wrong and simultaneously I am competing well and living well.
When you are being paid a lot of money to administer advice to other humans that directly affect their current lifespan, having a change in direction can look like you've made a mistake. Either way, Peter needs to be damn sure.
I have a funny feeling we're all LMHR in the right circumstances and I'm glad we're going down this road as the better my health gets in having to fight with my dr about my ldl going up. 3 years ago i was 340lbs and on low fat with 40 mg statin since 19. My ldl was 225 hdl 11 triglycerides 350. Within 2 months no statin and carvivore my ldl was 220 hdl 44 and triglycerides 150. 2 years later i lost 160lbs of fat and put on 50lbs of lean mass my ldl is almost 300 hdl is 66 and triglycerides are 60 and my dr hates to even see me but still says I'm very ill.
Wow!
Absolutely! The LMHR researchers need to get to this - its not that LDL is not harmful to LMHRs, its not harmful to anyone who is metabolically healthy. It is not an independent risk factornin itself and we would all be LMHR if we were all metabolically healthy.
Wish that Attia would revisit the discussion but suspect it no time soon. Feels like part of his public persona model is aggressively don’t buck the machine. It’s self protection.
It's definitely disappointing
Attia reminds me of the 46th Oscars in 1974, which had a man "streak" the stage. After breaking into laughter momentarily, David Niven regained his composure, turned to the audience and quipped, "Well, ladies and gentlemen, that was almost bound to happen... But isn't it fascinating to think that probably the only laugh that man will ever get in his life is by stripping off and showing his shortcomings?" Kudos Nick, for doing and saying what has occurred to some of us, who just didn't want to spend the time and energy to do. I'd noticed the things you address in the video. Cheers!
I saw that live "streak" broadcast as a child but didn't remember (or probably inderstand) David Niven's comment. Well done for this analogy!!!
Professor Bart Kay vs Peter Attia moderated by Nick Norwitz. Mic drop 😊
Ha. I'd swap it and have Kay as the mod... more entertaining and that seems to be his self prescribed job on the web anyways.
That would be value for money watching that.
Peter has so gone over into CICO land that he refuses to engage with any data about keto.
It's really wild to see because five to 7 years ago he wouldn't shut up about keto and how he was an ultra responder and how beneficial it was to him.
He really is the embodiment of "strong opinions loosely held" it's funny to observe from afar, if he wasn't so influential on what is and is not in the health overton window
It's unbelievable wow I didn't know that
$$$
Important video. The debate is necessary
Spelling?
I think so
Peter and those like him are the reason it takes so long for science to change and progress. it is easy to explain - it is called EGO!
I heard in an interview with Peter Attia- they asked him if he drank and if so what was his go to drink? He answered "A specific brand of red wine that I'm not going to say because I don't want people to buy it." That is all I needed to know about Peter Attia.
lol 😂
😱
Quick google search to your topic .Peter drinks Seven Oaks J.Lohr Cabernet Sauvignon
@johndavies1475 thanks, I'll be heading to the store momentarily
Peter Attia also raved about some fancy beer he said was the best he’d ever had. It was the only beer he would ever drink. He talked about it multiple times on podcasts and he said the same thing, can’t reveal it because then the supply would dry up for him and his buddies. Very tone deaf.
You are a breath of fresh air in the science world. If you get time can you elaborate on the thyroid and lipid energy model / insulin resistance? I’d love to hear your take.
Thanks Nicholas for all this work and pursuit of better knowledge !!
Nick, science advances one death at a time. When some of these old scientists go the way of the Dodo, science will move forward. You will never change their minds because they are married to their biases, for better or worse.
Except that Peter Attia is not that old. ?
@@Gesundheit888 Bless you... Yes, I know.
Luckily folks aren't gunna wait for that. Nick is at it today!
Peter Attia quit Keto 4 years ago. Then he did not support Intermittent Fasting. Reasons he cited were mostly personal like he missed curry sauce on rice ...
I am into Gerontology and Immunology research work in Asia in the past 18 years, now based in Singapore.
I advocate a low carb whole foods diet with more focus on the Japanese raw prescatarian, enzymatic foods, probiotic and fermented foods, without grains and starchy vegetables.
When it comes to fasting regimen, I put my thumbs up and embrace it wholly: be it 3 - 5 days of water fasting or IF done 16:8 to 20:4.
Personally, i do a 4 hour "mindful" eating window daily of clean and nutrient dense foods. Once a fortnight, i will go for dairy and dark chocolates and almonds in (small portions) as my feelgood "childhood comfort" cheat snacks that i give myself to boost "dopamine" level.
I also go for spicy foods quite often instead of caffeine to boost the "endorphins high" as a form of stimulus for neuron receptors, preliminary findings to prevent cognitive decline such as dementia.
Anyway, our Japanese and Asia longevity research throws more interesting facts in support of a lower carb diet with autophagic benefits from fasting regimes.
About 12 years ago or more (losing track) Attia was pro keto and was one of the people who convinced me to try it. I watched his Ted Talk, read his posts on his website (then Eating Academy I believe) and videos performing HIIT in a low carb state. Even though he seems to have changed his mind, since I have been weight stable for years now and have a CAC of 0 I guess I feel like I do have a strong bias built on a foundation partially laid by him. Thanks for your work Nick, Dave and crew!
This is fun to watch.
I'm also keeping my eye on Croissant Diet guy, Brad Marshall, (who is posting interesting stuff every few months on the saturated / unsaturated fat switch that bounces animals in and out of Springtime 'emergence' (high saturated fats, like stearic acid, as found in Elk flesh... winter kill food of bears), and torpor (found in autumn fats, high in MUFAs and PUFAs, like acorns, certain ants, etc.), respectively. The torpor inducing MUFAs & PUFAs make animals fat. These fat switches are apparently 600 millions years old... found even in nematodes.
AND... Dr. Anthony Jay, who wrote Estrogeneration (he's an ex-Mayo clinic researcher)... great genetic analysis knowledge and advice on how to steer clear of feminizing chemicals (no insult intended, females, ;).
Some time ago I stopped paying attention to Attia. He struck me as a weak thinker with a good schtick that he wanted to work for cash while not inconveniencing himself too much with real metabolic science. This video, recapping verbatim name calling and the confabulations he indulges in encapsulate my impression. I suspect that you're too scary for him, Nick. Keep up the good work.
Nick: You are an obvious genius and a person who believes in challenging much of the medical dogma that exists today. I have lost a lot of my respect for Peter Attia based upon his treatment of Dave Feldman. And that respect was at one time very high. at times Peter seems to lapse into thinking that the answer to many or all chronic diseases involves find the right pharmaceutical therapy. I call it the "pill for every ill philosophy"! Does Peter hold shares of stock in large pharma? It would be interesting to know the answer to that question. I am an 80-year-old retired physician. A ketogenic diet has resolved my Type II diabetes, resolved my hypertension, and it has lowered my TGs to 60 from 150 and raised my HDL from 42 to 60. My LDL has risen, and I do not care. Finally, all of my Seasonal Affective Disorder symptoms which I have had since my teens have resolved. And my weight has gone from 208 to 158. I am a carbohydrate addict which developed slowly over many years but which I only realized in 2019. I think that in some substantial measure the postponement or the slowing or even the treatment and of most chronic diseases. Perhaps the most important factors to reduce chronic diseases really does involve those two dreaded words "Diet and Exercise"?!!Keep up your incredible work and God Bless.
I love that you have been reaching out to established experts in the field. The more people who get interested, the faster the science will advance, leading to a more contextual understanding of the subject.
Also, love that you are doing real science. Observe something novel, use Occam's razor to form a hypothesis, and then try to disprove your hypothesis since a hypothesis can never be proven. Science advances most when a hypothesis is disproven.
Nick, I applaud you for what you’re doing for us, patients. I wish you were my family physician. I also appreciate Dave’s hard work running various researches and his educational impact on our wellbeing. Way to go, Gentlemen! 🙏😘
Peter is on three prescriptions to lower his APO B to 30 or so. I'm interested in seeing what happens to people who do this....I suspect it won't be good.
It’s a huge mistake I agree.
There is recently a quickening of people seeing lies for what they are. You are a key player in dismantling this one. The world is going to get very dark, but so much truth is coming out there is a lot to be hopeful for. Keep up the great work, Nicholas!
People are no longer willing to trust any established body of thought blindly, after being consistently lied to for decades, culminating in the global coof juice rollout
NB4 people start saying the same about your newest cult leader
@@user-ij5ky4lr3x Nick seems like a cult leader to you? lol.
@@dreaminginnoother Cult leaders never seem like cult leaders. lol
@@dreaminginnootherMy actual point was that all cult leaders start out seeming this way. Some of them probably never intended to become a cult leader. I'm sure Peter Attia doesn't think of himself as a cult leader, yet here we are...
The conversation with Peter will not happen for one of 2 reasons... 1) He's researching ways to to possibly disqualify your findings altogether, or 2) He knows that this information means that he may have to accept a new hypothesis. Either way, the biggest conversation blocker right now appears to be ego! What a shame for scientific progress! P.S. I can't remember, are eggs good for you or bad for you this year? 😆
Thank you for the content. I think the direction you are headed fills a void in the current knowledge base and I’m happy you and others who are experts are seeking to research and find out how these results relate to our blood tests. I have been waiting for a long time for the conventional LDL wisdom to address the Keto et all low carb population. I am thankful for Peter too. He has served to bring a big voice to the concept of medicine 3.0 and doing what we can in a preventative mindset. That alone is worth the direction change for many of us and to Peter I am thankful for his contribution in that direction.
I admire Attias unbridled love for himself but I’ll continue to pass on his takes.
"As you wish" - W
Wow, all Dave had to do was go to an NLA meeting and the question would be solved? 😅
I've heard enough negatives from Peter that I prefer to not even listen to him anymore. Perhaps the best interview I watched from him is when he did a video interviewing the late Dr Sarah Hallberg.
I saw that interview. It was heart-wrenching.
Such a great video with so main good points to start a conversation! Hope you get even more reach thanks to this Nick! Thanks! 🙏
thanks for the comment!
Oreos look Black & White to me!
ha!
Great video! I’ve been hoping to get Peter Atias thoughts on the new lean mass hyper responder and CCTA data. Not only because I would just find the discussion interesting but also because he now has a mass audience that should be aware of this new data.
I quit watching Peter Attia after that interview.
Thank you Nick, well said!
Stick to your guns Nick! You, Dave et al are doing a great job looking at the LEM / lean mass hyper responders! Love you logic and calm demeanour calling out poor thinking…. Keep up the great work! 👍👍👍
Excellently presented - thank you for your work. Thinking outside the box... exactly what we need.
At 6:10 in this video Peter Attia admits he's a knucklehead. That was the most interesting part of the video to me.
False humility backfired?
@@nicknorwitzPhD Yeah, exactly. False humility, used to exaggerate the credibility and importance of those "smartest people on the planet". It's a transparent appeal to authority.
As if "established science" has never been upended in the history of history. It does not want to be upended either, it RESISTS STRONGLY.
Prediction: Next he'll be making the argument, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." This is entirely false, and something Carl Sagan should never have uttered. How about just "proof"? It's either proof or it isn't.
I first saw through this fallacy when Lance Armstrong tried to use it against whistleblowers in the bicycle racing scene. They had the goods, they had proof. But Lance deflected attention to the matter for quite some time with the "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". Why not just "proof", Lance?
@@nicknorwitzPhD More 'Delusions of Adequacy' I would say.
Keep going Nick…and Keep reaching out to the vastly experienced “old guard” (as you say 7.3 minutes). They’re clearly not to be dismissed…and more likely to listen if your rational, reasonable approach continues just as it is.
I pay ZERO attention to Attia.
I’m very impressed with your scientific method. As a board-certified fellowship trained surgeon with nearly 30 years in clinical practice and textbook author published in 13 languages , I find Peter Atia’s eloquent-sounding but often factually incorrect statements a bit schizophrenic to try to follow . Ignore his noise….eg Ancel Keys.Folllow the science
In one breath of his book he says that that by far away the very best road to longevity and health span is to improve your exercise level and VO2 max going from the bottom sedentary quartile
to the VO2 max of top 10% world class athlete.
That’s the “best way to increase your longevity and lifespan” and he’s very very dismissive of nutrition and dietary mods and studies in multiple parts of the book and podcasts
This assertion comes just a few pages after his description/admission of being super athletic and very physically fit (yet clearly metabolically unhealthy) capable of swimming across a multi mile cold swim in San Francisco Bay and getting out the water and his wife telling him he needs to lose some weight and become thin Peter.
So Peter,how is that “calories in calories out “ model of tons of exercise and a dazzling wonderful VO2 max but clearly a crappy diet of Coca-Cola and highly processed foods with insulin resistance syndrome and a fatty liver and hypertension etc ……all SAD diet induced …..how is that working for you there big boy?
He also wants to put everybody that has elevated LDL in some of his talks (and other ones patients with elevated artherogenic Apo B particles) on one or MULTIPLE STATINS AT HIGH DOSES IN ORDER TO GET the ATHEROGENIC PARTICLES DOWN TO CHILDHOOD LEVELS. No mention of low carb diet to decrease the upstream glycemic spikes to the liver and resultant insulin spikes, and downstream insulin resistance syndrome.
APPARENTLY HE’S NEVER READ THE MULTIPLE STUDIES SHOWING THAT LDL CHOLESTEROL IS 80% FLUFFY AND INNOCUOUS AND Only 20% OF IT IS small DENSITY OXIDIZED LDL ……
Or that statins cause multiple side effects, including cognitive loss that’s reversible with cessation of statins etc
Or that longevity and survival rates are inversely correlated with LDL levels and people over 60 (because cholesterol is needed to help fight infection and cancer and for cognitive function) live longer with higher LDL levels We were discussing longevity, correct?
Or that statins are a trillion dollar industry for the drug companies, yet far more accurate biomarkers/indicator of potential impending major cardiovascular events or measures of metabolic health, would be
triglycerides /HDL ratio
or a fasting insulin test and post prandial insulin level
or a HOMA IR as indicators of underlying metabolic health, ie not having insulin resistance syndrome which is the upstream root cause in combination with highly oxidated, mitochondrial damaging, poly unsaturated fatty acids also found highly processed foods aka diet……
insulin resistance syndrome being an important root cause of all of the top 10 preventable causes of death in US and the west in 2024, except for suicide
The obesity epidemic in the west (after 50 years of failure the “calories in calories out model” failure advocated by Peter )is a downstream manifestation of a dietary excess of highly processed foods containing excess fructose, leading to hexokinase induced loss of ATP to ADP to AMP to uric acid to mitochondrial death and slowing of the metabolism, insulin resistance syndrome with downstreamhypertension, metabolic syndrome, type two diabetes, hyperglycemia, hyperinsulinanemia , non alcoholic fatty liver disease, atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease Obesity and obesity related cancer etc
Triglycerides are a product of dietary carbohydrates by the way. Not ldl
Multiple study saying that elevated LDL has a hazard factor of 1.3 compared to triglyceride to HDL ratio with a hazard ratio of 1.8
Hey Peter overweight guy and metabolically unhealthy getting out of the frigid Pacific
Drinking a Coca-Cola and slamming a Taco Bell with its oxidizing, poly unsaturated fats and excess fructose and no fiber, causing an immediate glycemic response in the liver………… then big insulin response then IRS ….don’t be quite so dismissive of diet or the carbohydrate insulin model
‘’And maybe so in love with V02max. If you’re exhibiting scientific method and reading all the studies
Exercise is important for resistance training to act as a glucose sink with more skeleton muscle for glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity
and HIIT type exercise for mitochondrial autophagy and biogenesis.
Being dismissive of diet/ insulin resistance syndrome seems to border on moronic
Expressing the desire to put everybody on a statin down to pre teenage levels is absurd
Pitching a $165.00 a month novel pendulum supplement for causing microbiome bacteria to produce butarate/Ketones with 5 minutes of clinical use and studies on the supplement
And pitching statins shown to increase survival rate by only four days with a high complication rate from them …while dismissing low carb mods ………smacks a bit of selling out to big Pharma and spreading mis information for money……that’s been a problem with medicine 2.0 that Peter is so smug and dismisive of and condescending to its inadequacies
As a PhD and a medical student, always beware of the derisive guy who either quit during his training in general surgery or was fired, and completely got out of medicine and elected to work in lucrative bankstatistics and risk management until the banking industry went under and came back and wrote a book , with a lot of inconsistencies and obvious lack of understanding of some of the general tenets of medicine
and then started treating some small micro niche of super affluent patients at $150,000 a year per patient. If you’re gonna be that guy and you’re going to throw lots of rocks at the 2.0 boat and be dismissive and condescending about true scientific method ……the rocks your hurling should be really really accurate and scientifically studied and on point if you’re gonna throw them at physicians with 30 years of experience taking care of patients in the trenches rather than the sexy boardroom with Italian suits , daily trying to sift through multi million dollar misinformation campaigns propagated from the American heart Association and big food and big Pharma down in those trenches.
Scientific method involves formulating a hypothesis and studying it to see if it is correct or not and then repeating and following the scientific truth . Not hawking a $165 a month supplement with your left hand and throwing rocks with your right
It does seem like a case of projecting from what I just heard. It really isn't logical at all that there would be; seemingly, no curiosity around these findings. I do think; however, that it won't stop or slow any progress with so so many highly regarded experts in this field coming forward with encouragement and curiosity themselves of where this all goes. To me this is a hallmark of a great scientist, physician, seeker of truth and knowledge. 🙏
👍👍🙏 Yeah! Nick was nice, cause he didn't replay the snippets where Peter was getting agro on Dave.
Dave is into science not into ad hominem. He can actually totally ignore Peter's nastiness since it does not further their discussion. Peter can not do that, and so he has nothing to add.
@@Gesundheit888 So true. I'm surprised Peter left that podcast up, because it really makes him look bad, IMO.
i honestly do not think Peter Attia is overly intelligent or overly curious. He states that he consumes alcohol regularly...bad example
Congratulations on being on an amazing trajectory, this is an articulate, powerful yet humble rebuff. Seekers of truth, keep up your amazing work.
Carry on Nick et al - there have been far too much certainty is this area for far too long.
Thank you Nicholas, all we want is to be as close to the truth as possible.
Peter Attia is such a clown. His pod with Prof Thomas Seyfrid was also really painful to see. Keep up the good job Nick.
Oh no.. he attacked my main man, Tom?
Now I’m angry and shall have to find this interview 😠😁
@@donnahelps5680Me, too! 😠
My reaction too. Dr Seyfried is a gentleman so I can't imagine him stooping to Peter's level in reply but I've yet to hear the podcast. Time to do some keyboard research. @@donnahelps5680
OK, 2hours and 48minutes later I've listened to Peter's podcast interview with Professor Thomas Seyfried, not as bad as I had expected but it was 5 or 6 years ago.
Love how Attia switches immediately into Authority by Proxy mode to “demolish” the hypothesis
Thanks Nick. We all appreciate your work. You guys are doing something big... Peter is not
oh Nick bless your heart. I'm sorry you were hoaxed into thinking Peter cares about reality. He only cares about what continues his grift. When you reframe your view of his comments it becomes crystal clear.
Some times I follow all the geek info regarding this pursuit for a optimum human nutrition. When I do listen, I become fascinated by the range of truths, denials about the truths, and the drama that engulf the general listeners such as me, who find themselves in the midst of what may or may not be a permanent solution to our nutrition life styles. Thanks for your videos.
I read some criticisms from clinicians on twitter/X about your recent meta analysis of 41 trials. They were criticizing the use of a meta regression as it's equivalent to observational studies in regards to evidential strength which I was unaware of. It still seems like a well conducted study after reading it. Some were also pointing out that it still showed that SFA increased LDL-c in every BMI subset, but from my understanding the study wasn't refuting the effect of SFA intake on LDL-c but was rather trying to show that LDL-c change was affected more by having a lean BMI than SFA when on a low carb diet.
I'd be interested to hear what you think about this!
I'm a great judge of character and Attia is in arrogant bell end. 😂
He’s a surgeon so what can we expect.
My dad and aunt and girlfriend are all surgeons… all very deep thinkers… so I don’t accept that as an excuse 😉
The elephant in the room: is “high” LDL always atherosclerotic? Or only when it’s concurrent with inflammation caused by something else?
I have a BMI of 19 with an LDL of 184. My triglycerides and HDL are in the range with a reversed type 2 diabetes (A1C of 9.6 dropped to 5.5 in 3 months without meds following a healthy lifestyle and low-carb diet). My doctor graded my lab results A+ then changed it to A- when he couldn't convince me to take statins 😅
Peter’s voice is so deep and authoritative, he must be right! LOL
The Mufasa effect
I totally agree with Peter about the knucklehead part. He's spot on.
Unpopular opinion: not all carbs are equal. I react very differently to dairy and potatoes than I do any kind of grains.
Isn’t that obvious though? Not all carbs are equal but they are all equally unnecessary.
@@mitochondriac5946not necessary, but some people that can't stick to low carb, whether from lack of willpower or any other reason.
Replacing junk food carbs to potatoes and fruit helps so many people lose/ maintain a healthy weight
Of course, not all carbs are equal. That's a no-brainer. I get a few carbs from eggs and dairy. For many people, anything sweet or starchy is a slippery slope. Mashed potatoes are my favorite food. I have to abstain. I have no self-control when it comes to potatoes. 😅
how is that an unpopular opinion. I feel like sour patch kids aren't blueberries is a reasonable stance... but maybe I'm the crazy one ;)
The part of this video that really resonated with me is the reminder not to assume that things that look the same across a certain feature set are in fact the same.
I guess it goes even beyond genotype vs phenotype to questions of what and how we are measuring. I think it’s important general life advice, too! Within a group of items that look similar in some respects (e.g. high LDL in this case) there could be two or more subgroups, that in fact would appear very different if we just knew what to measure to see those distinctions.
And *everyone* in the scientific community would benefit from being able to disambiguate the subgroups, because it would likely lead to greater group homogeneity amongst each of the subgroups, and therefore hopefully stronger statistical results for studies considering any of the subgroups.
Conversely, by willfully ignoring the existence of distinct subgroups, you could end up with really watered-down results, as disparate individuals within the wider group would average each other out and make the effects seem weaker than they really are.
So, the end result for closed-minded scientists could be becoming less successful (in terms of actual impact-not status, accolades or compensation) than they might have been if they had approached things with a more open mind. Keep on keeping yours open, Nick!
Peter did a solid job of describing your approach to grasping at straws trying to generate data that confirms your biases. You’ve failed to do that thus far and you’ll likely never succeed. It’s a poor way to conduct research and your TH-cam content is misleading thousands of people in this process
You can't see the irony? Special interest groups, pharma and other huge corporations have been 'generating data' for decades. These pro keto studies are junk science, but so is literally every other paper on nutrition anyway.
So, here's what Dave and Nick have done / are doing:
- made observation (high LDL when keto if low BMI)
- reviewed relevant literature
- created hypothesis (Lipid Energy Model and LMHR phenotype)
- performing studies to test hypothesis, attempting to disprove it
- involving their peers in scientific community along the way
- allowing the interested public to witness science in action (with explanations about what can and cannot be inferred from the studies) via the wondrous marvel of the internet
They are just doing and showing science.
Where in this is the bias?
Where in this is the straw-grasping?
Where in this is the misleading?
I've noted your other comments about misunderstandings that laypeople may have, and while your concern comes from a good place, you're placing a responsibility on Nick that is impossible for him or any public speaker to meet.
It's true that public speakers of any kind (politician, journalist, scientist, etc) should speak with consideration of the impact of their words, but no one can 100% "control the narrative".
Nick has acted and communicated responsibly - what people may or may not take away from his words and what they do is ultimately out of his hands.
@@saintwithatie Nick has not “acted and communicated responsibly” by any means. He is not just doing and showcasing science. He creates clickbait titles for every video and purposefully misrepresents the data in ways his more credentialed colleagues refuse to do.
If his actions were as straight forward as you’ve laid out, then yes, there’s little reason to raise concern about his behavior, but what he’s been doing in actuality is promoting his biases and twisting the data or lack thereof to confirm those biases. The research being done is important and interesting, but how it is being communicated on TH-cam is a disservice to the public.
@@maesterdrew8606 What is his bias?
What data is he twisting / misrepresenting and how?
@@maesterdrew8606You’re making strong claims here you need to back up with evidence. Explain where the bias and twisting of data lies exactly.
I believe that the Emperor’s new clothes will soon be evident to him, if not already. It wii undoubtedly take a lot longer for it to be admitted to though…if it ever is at all!
I wasn't even aware that Attia is 'strongly' against keto now. He was hardcore keto.
He's not, also what Nick cherry picked here was from 2018
@@joebob1929 another day on the interwebs
Man I’m glad smart people like this exist
It's impossible to stay on a ketogenic diet if one loves alcohol. Hence the backlash against low carb, to be honest..
Alcohol have no carbs!
@@connymitander5906 if you're only drinking straight spirits, sure many have zero carbs, the amount of calories of energy can still dump you out of ketosis. Robbing you of one of the main benefits of a LC WOE.
I've been following your work with great interest, Nick. I think it could be revolutionary. I have one nagging question, though. If it turns out through these trials that low carb raises LDL but not heart disease risk in LMHR populations, what are the consequences for the rest of us non-LMHR low carbers?
bottom line, Peter and the rest don't want to discuss bc they are scared. They don't have the intellectual prowess that you and your team have.
Well said!
Peter Attia doesn't have the courage to admit when he is wrong. Such a small person who just can't admit he is wrong. He's on the pharmaceutical payroll now
Cares more about money than science? Kinda like Ancel Keys.
I was a fan of Attia. He simply is not curious. He admits what he learned in med school was 50% wrong and doesn’t realise he is still 50% wrong
And he doesnt know which 50% is wrong !.
Exactly! Haha @@tonynoonan3723