Do These Mods Instead of a Supercharger / 8th Gen Civic Si 300HP NA Mods
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Our 2009 FA5 Honda Civic Si with a FD2 Type R Conversion and K24 engine swap has a Kraftwerks Supercharger that may not be the best mod we installed.
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I’m 39 and drive my 09 civic si with a supercharged k24a2 everyday to work. Car makes 390whp on pump gas. I love it. I drive it 50 miles each day. Never get old guys.
That's being content cuz that's my goal. Just a reliable rocket bunny.😅
thats badass and you prolly still get remarks that its a civic and that you get good mpg lol im tired of hearing it myself. theres almost nothing economic about the si compared to the base model obviously. esp with that close ratio 6speed
I just boosted my GT86 this weekend and its making 285 WHP. It doesn't feel like all that much and it's not like I even get to use all of it every day on my 30 minute commute. I also live in Texas and it got up to 91° today so that might be why it doesn't feel that good 😅
I'm tempted to go for the smaller pulley, loud BOV and E85 but all of that can wait for another year, I'll keep enjoying what I have right now.
It's still not enough to get in big trouble but enough to feel like it's how it should've always been.
@@yaboirico5221 also reliability man even NA those things are prone to engine failure, be careful homie 😭😭 i want a gt86 bad but i wish i could put my si's 9000rpm 240hp engine in it lol
What size tire do you run. I think the guys using 225 width tires is lame
Any time we hear the catchy horns theme song come on (on yours, or any other video), my wife goes "Oh, are we watching "Canadians Building Hondas" today?"
😂😂
Hahahah
that’s so sweet!
Time to get rid of that GT wing and put the factory Type R wing.
Thiiiiissssss
Yes!!
For sure, street cars shouldn't have GT wings.
Or even better a hybrid civic lip style little wing
Mugen wing rep
I definitely agree with NA for a daily/street car. Just more fun when you can rip hard and not be worried about going too fast.
I have a 8th Civic SI w/ Kraftwerks and you are 100% right
I have a stock 8th gen and with a lot of suspension parts feels amazing
Fellow middle-aged enthusiast. Agree 100% 😂
I hear you, I am 51 and I still enjoy modifying my MK5 GTI and 2K all motor Nissan Maxima.
Yep. You could beat on that all day long lots of full throttle everywhere.
Speaking my language! Heavily modified Miata vs basically Stock one… gotta say the basic version is pretty much perfect.
Here here
I 5th that
Keep the fa5 content coming! I once seriously thoughts if selling mine. But everything I get in it I'm reminded of how good of a all rounder it is.
40 years old here, I’ve had my Rotrex Supercharged EP3 (365bhp) nearly 10 years and wouldn’t go back NA. 😎
100% agree the only reason why they pulled the supercharger out was for financial reasons.
@@alleybuilds5370 for the annual maintenance of keeping the supercharger? If so what would be the difference in maintenance between NA and supercharged ?
Loved my jap spec ep3. Ran it with a 24 bottom end as opposed to forced induction. Have since moved to an fn2r and with the extra weight, it has crossed my mind to turbo or supercharge it.
@@RelayFFA nothing to do with maintenance everything to do with resale value. they are selling the car and realize they will get more money if they sold the supercharger by itself. and the car by itself.
@@SR22VET-S15I've had a few boosted hondas now. A turbo dc2 type r at 320hp a Jackson racing supercharged jdm dc5 type r and for the last 6 years a supercharged fn2 type r at 340hp. Honestly I prefer supercharged for the linear power delivery and instant throttle response. Dont worry about heat anywhere near as much compared to turbo and no big torque spikes to worry about loss of traction as much. I'm even on oem clutch for 6 years now and do the occasional bit on track too
380 through the front wheels is A LOT. This will make for a more enjoyable day-to-day driver.
Source: approaching 40.
380 is at least 30 whp too much. 400 at the crank is maxing out what a fwd platform can handle, without completely losing driveability
I had a Volvo with ~250hp to the front wheels, that already was enough hp for that FWD car, loads of torque steer and poor traction without an LSD.
Not with rt660s it isnt. But I suppose not everyone wants to run a 200tw tire on a civic. Drives like a dream with the 660s tho
@@Vaino_HottiI agree, 300whp in a sub 3000lb fwd car is plenty fun, I still get 30mpg when I don’t beat on it
@@Vaino_Hottiso fun tho innit
As a middle-aged enthusiast, i can co-sign that in some cases "less is more", however i have learned that balance is everything! I'll reference again the classic "Best Motoring" video that shows the white Supra against the Skylines around the track with pro drivers. Personally, i would have kept the supercharger and balanced the car to work with and as a supercharged car. Love the content guys🏆💪
Im disappointment. I was so in love with the way you guys so cleanly trimmed the hood and had just a sliver of supercharger showing while still being under the hood line! All she needed was some wider tires all around. I feel like 255 square should be a common setup.
But I digress. If you are really gonna street it all the time an commute this does make a ton of sense. Plus 240 wheel is definitely no slouch!
this just shows how good honda engines are with some light modifications.
i would love to see some of the v6 done up.
I love the practicality of this channel. Of course 1,2,3k hp is insane and those videos get views but those cars are a money pit and unrealistic for 99% of people.The builds on SA are attainable for the average car enthusiast.
Saturday morning coffee with Speed Academy makes it a good morning for also this middle aged enthusiast ☕
This was absolutely the move DP, good choice. Would love to see its send-off be @ TMP. Compare the lap times to when it was supercharged
I wanted a krafwerks sc for my DC2 for the longest time but ended up having King Motorsports build me a spicy 84.5mm bore b18c1 that makes 240whp/161wtq on e85. I am very happy I went the NA route, as it’s more than enough power for a good time! K power in a B series package and it just fits the character of the car perfectly.
I did the comptech kit on my 8th gen. Making about 330whp. It was a beast and the whine was intoxicating. Roots style blowers are way better than centrifugal blowers.
Why are they better?
Roots style blowers have a lot of inherent problems. Biggest being overheating.
@@rawrmadmonkey Mercracing has pretty much solved all the cooling issues for all the common k series roots blowers
@@marzelluspinder3190 I had a centrifugal blower in my S2k for 5 years making 423 whp, and the roots blower in my daily driver civic si for 3 years making 330whp so I have a lot of experience with both types of blowers. I preferred the roots blower because it had instant power at lower RPM. With the centrifugal you have to be up in the rpm before it really starts to make boost and pull. Also the roots blower sounded sick revving out to 8600rpm. Here’s an old video which I will not confirm nor deny if it was me for obvious reasons. th-cam.com/video/k39VztzKf28/w-d-xo.htmlsi=X7pu2hRtrcvmBDUi
@@rawrmadmonkey I had less noticeable power loss from my roots blower over my centrifugal. Both were running larger air to water heat exchanger setups.
A buddy of mine had a supercharged S2k that he was track racing and actually ended up going back to NA for the next season because with the supercharger it was just overpowered. Ended up doing better with the na setup that season.
Depends on the courses you're tracking on but you can usually cut your lap times by more seconds per dollar doing basically anything other than adding boost. Improving braking, suspension, grip, and aero will cost you about as much as adding boost alone and will get you better lap times on most courses.
The boost curve from a centrifugal supercharger makes you use more throttle at the bottom of a pull, but as the rpms climb the boost also climbs (exponentially) and “blows the tires off” the car. It is especially pronounced on FWD with street tires.
Spent the day at TMP only to get home to watch some Speed Academy!
I’m of the mindset that i should have gotten better with a crv all wheel drive setup with the supercharger,maybe that should be another video suggestion
AWD supercharged making 380 would be really rowdy 🔥
Way too complex, expensive and heavy. All they needed was a 255 square setup on some nice 300 tread wear tires and maybe lowering the boost a bit if required.
@@CrossWindsPat 255/35R18 200TW tires + add an external wastegate on the charge pipe plugged into a 4-port solenoid (boost by gear setup) Problem solved ✅
I'm 43 & have a fwd SR20DE+T . I like the sounds the turbo🐌 makes......stututu🙂. Doubling the hp made the car more fun to drive.
Good morning SA! It seems more enjoyable without the S/C. You can rip thru gears and play with the throttle a lot more without the constant burning of rubber. I believe you guys made the right choice!
As a 40 year old owner of a K20Z3 swapped EK, I say NA just works. I love this take, great episode!
Also approaching middle age and power is overrated when you consider worry free driving enjoyment
I love not ever looking at my AFR gauge :)
Approaching middle age is definitely overrated
@@ChoPi-Eww As someone middle-aged, I'll co-sign this statement. 🤣
As a fa5 owner and 42 year old I still want the SC lol 😂
Not surprised at all; I had a crx back in the day that made 300whp and in a street race would get beat by anything from a dig. Highway and the track with r compounds was different but 245whp on that chassis sounds perfect. 👍
I have a kraftwerks civic I’ve put thousands of miles on it and my wife drives it too it’s incredible. If you don’t wanna rip the tires off you pedal it or shift up the power is always there if/when you want it and if you don’t want it you can drive out of boost easy. I added a rfl blow off valve so every gear change is fun and sounds cool. To each his own!
Or they could put a bigger pulley and turn the boost down. In my opinion, this is a downgrade but it’s whatever.
@@mursetvlogs5717 They are going to sell it, and make more money selling the SC separate. Probably
@@dancarlos1216 ooo, yea that makes sense too. I figured a lot of their projects they always end up selling anyway since you never see them again
Why would I buy a civic to pedal it and shortshift? I want to be matted and banging gears every single drive.
I had a 5th gen Camaro, did normal bolt on and really enjoyed the car, put a supercharger on and never really enjoyed it after. It was a blast in a straight line but it took the sportiness away. I drove it to the dealer with the mods all removed to trade it and actually missed how the car was in stock form.
i have a second gen IS 2.2 turbodiesel ( europe only) its making about 200 crank 330lbs with short gears (230kmh top speed) out of a 6 speed manual and i completly understand your point . Even tho my car is heavy with the few handling mods i have (coilovers, sway bars , wheels and tires , bigger brakes) its still fun to drive specially on the mountains were the torque from the diesel engine and the short gearing really help the car uphill.
Theres always the right road for the right car
Also as a middle aged enthusiast I too agree, sometimes less is better. Waiting patiently for that Miata build.
Glad to see you guys thriving up North. Congrats on nearly 650k subscribers. I always say add power until you reach the limits of the chassis/tire. With light FWD cars on street tires, that's a pretty low limit. 250-300 whp is probably that limit for most people. Even the newer CTRs with much better suspension design start to become a handful on street tires above 350-400 whp.
34 yo and I love my FA5 and the most I’m doing is just a k24 swap the torque on the lower end is much more useful (and fun) in my opinion for where I live at. 250hp FBO and a tune is the goal and that’s it!! Still keep the ac, and all the creature comforts! And I’m okay sacrificing the the quiet cabin for a lil vibrations!
Lower power isn't bad. Miata is a ton of fun, FRS/BRZ/GR86 is fun. They don't have high power but still great.
FWD has special challenges in grip due to weight transfer to back tires...
I have a fast car I can't really use anywhere. It sits in the garage and comes out a few times during the summer. So, cutting back the power to have something fun to get around in without going to jail is good.
I miss multiple videos per week from you guys. I’m guessing life has gotten in the way
Honestly I love the 8th gen civic si and seeing you build the supercharger set up was awesome and I’m glad I’m now seeing an all motor set up really love seeing this car on camera
Depending on your application it’s actually better if you are just after power then turbo is the only way but for circuit racing supercharger is the best option
Got rid of that rotrex before that shaft snapped which is always a plus. Tons of these rotrexes are seeing the shaft snap off for some reason
I always thought that the supercharger wasn't the correct fit for that car. I really think that this is the perfect setup for this car.
What a great result!!
Have to say was expecting nick to flick the Honda badge and say in ASMR voice “Honda” when he was strapping it down 🤣
Teaching the car to talk. Love the Civic, great series.
I’m 26 and i turned down my 430hp AWD rsx down because I didn’t need that power on a street daily driver.
I hope you do a SW20 MR2 some day.
Me too buddy me too, I have one myself.
I think it was a great decision. If not mistaken, you were slightly limited on the rpm range with the supercharger, which was a little anti-honda 😅 now you have all the rpms ✔️
41 yrs old, just got a FA5 7 months ago, i also have a Fb6 si as well. Just simple bolt ons and a tune on either one of them is enough. 😊
I've become a lot more mindful of sticking to an intended purpose for a car as I've gotten older. My daily, turbo E46 has a respectable amount of power for the streets. But not enough to overpower the chassis/tires. It's still enough to play with the Hellcats and ZL1s though 😅
"it's crazy how bad the roads are"
*laughs in Louisiana*
I'm surprised yall don't get tire/wheel allowance from the state for how bad it is. Anything south of Interstate 20 is "F"ed.
You guys should install an ecu controlled wastegate on the charge pipe. So your tuner can limit you boost by whatever values he wants. Like limit it per gear, limit in per mode setting, etc.
Seen a couple guys doing this lately and it's really neat
Where have you seen this? I’m interested for my fg2 with a kraftwerks .
this content makes me miss my FBO FA5 so much.. had it tuned by Nick as well, great guy!
I have a 8th Civic SI w/ Kraftwerks in 225 tires and I agree ! Always spinning and every time I drive I feel I am going to jail.
Wisest decision ever. I build my K20 without the k24. Got the Brian crowder light weight striker, 87mm pistons, BC stage 3 cams. Running 2.2L. Having the extra power and torque balancing with the cars setup it’s super fun to drive. I’d post pics but don’t think I can on here.
My setup is FD2R and live in Japan. My numbers were 260hp and 178
Nothing like a N/A vtec k series , that’s enough great power , kids these days think 500whp is low is crazy
Pete's genuine reaction on that first pull after the dyno says it all! The perfect Civic maybe?
After owning a Lancer (not Evolution) that made 320whp / 304wtq which never hooked up, even after an LSD install, I think you guys absolutely made the right decision here. Great video!
For not being a true FD2, you guys did it the right way to being close to identical to a true FD2. I would LOVE to own one.
I thought y’all sold this car. Nice to see you mod it make it an awesome daily.
We're not just Honda guys, we're about to K-swap a Miata! lol
Have you seen the J series miata setup?
I want to K Swap my Mazda Protege, there is a handful of guys that already did it and say its almost like kswaping an EK,
Such a great car! I love my 197ish hp 8th gen Si coupe. Just put Micheline Pilot Sport 4S tires on and really enjoying it.
More Power = More Problems. Just a fact. The more strain you put on parts to sustain that power, the lower the lifetime expectancy. And the other train of thought... Driving Overpowered cars = Chore .... Driving Underpowered cars = space to have fun.... not running out of road or fighting for traction.
Yup
It’s already been proven in multiple videos that the Kworks charger did not give people issues at 20k+ miles.
Useable power is always fun. Only so much you need.
That’s what the k24 bottom end is for. TORQUE!!! Adding the k20 head for high end power and you have consistent power throughout the power band
At 244whp that is the perfect street car that you can comfortably drive everyday. It must be a blast to drive.
Balance is what makes these Hondas great.
I feel you could've gone for some 3d printing on this episode. Hood vent is right next to intake plenum. It could make for a short run and some proper intake noise.
This made me sad🥲super easy to hook w a supercharger, even on a non staggered set up but it’s understandable
I am a 34yo petrolhead/car enthusiast and i totally agree with the NA choice.
Its reliable and fun to drive. You can track it on Sundays, you can go to Walmart, you can take the kid to karate lessons, you can have fun on twisties on the way home in the afternoon, you can commute to work. Every time you will have a big smile on your face😊😊
EF vs EG vs FD shoot out?
Yes!! @speedacademy
Just needs Drag cartel drop in cams and a j37 and id say its done for power 🤣
8th gens hook really well. NA is Best! Don't need a lot horsepower to have fun. Love the content guys!!
I am 100% with you! The builds with 600hp for the street that spun all gears even with boost by gear are just not my thing anymore.
As a older Honda owner still playing with these cars. I have tossed around the idea of supercharging my 6-speed Tsx or swapping in a J37. Seems sacrilegious to remove the K24a2 but making 300 whp NA with a J37 without opening up the motor is so appealing. Especially from a reliability and daily driver point of view. Showing my age….😂
The old motor setup is great for swapping into rear wheel drive cars like the lotus Elise, mr2, and such. When you're sticking with front wheel drive setups, there are unfortunately limitations.
Definately true, If you are drag racing you need the power. For daily driving I've been at ~240hp 197 ft/lbs Crank in my CL9 for 8 years now, every time I come across the money and time to boost or build I think to myself why? The car is already ludicruously fast for a family car. The tires don't ast very long as it is and the fuel economy is now mediocre. During Street driving 90% of the time your car is below 4000 RPMS. so tune for that, and whatever the top number is it will be good enough. torque wins races HP sells cars. .
A custom tune could improve your gas mileage! and I agree that you don't need to put crazy amount of money on a family car which you don't rev past 4k rpm..it totally make sens. But it's HP actually that wins race as it make you go fast.. few exemple: golf TDI (torquier) < golf R (faster) , euro Civic 2.2Ldiesel (torquier) < Civic SI 2L (Faster), Harley davidson (torquier) < CBR1000 (faster) , F150 3.0L diesel (torquier) < F150 5.0L coyote(still faster) etc.. Torque move the mass (great for hauling) and HP make the MPH (great for racing) so let's say two same car (same weight) but one is 200hp/100tq and the other is 100hp/200tq.. the first one will ALWAYS be faster in a race. Hope that help,
Cheers!
@@benjbsn2429 I actually did spend what most would consider crazy money, I just didnt go FULL SEND. The gearbox has been rebuilt with RSX-S gears, the engine is from a JDM accord type-s, it has a competition flywheel, clutch, header and tune. sitting on continental 235/45R18 tires. It really was not cheap. I just ordered new RDX injectors due to mine being almost 20 years old now and well I'm maxing them out.
THe GOLF R has 295 ftlbs of torque with the Golf diesel being 236ft'lbs, the harley weighs double what the CBR does. The coyote is 5.0 L, the diesel is 3.0, you are mistaken. The vehicles you compare are tuned for different purposes, its apples to oranges. WHat you are describing comes from the transmission type (auto vs man), gearing, cam timing, intake manifold design and the exhaust restrictions, not wether the car is"torquey" or not, I didn't say I don't rev past 4K, what I meant with the 90% comment is that when driving on the street you almost never have to downshift this car (unlike a b16a for example) you can cruise at 2000 mash the throttle and you are off to whatever the public road allows.
About HP and torque, that is a misconception. When you see the revs climb and you feel it.. THAT IS TORQUE, when you shift at redline and the tires spin when you get back on it and the RPMS don't drop, THAT IS HP. HP is just sustained torque, a broader torque curve, properly geared, wins the race due to the TORQUE being MORE available in a broad range of RPMs. super high RPM power is "useful" but the engine is only capable in a very narrow range. The ideal Road car in my opinion has as much HP as possible, however without sacrificing the nominal torque. a simple cam change on my k24a i lost 8 HP and gained 10 ft/lbs and the car feels MUCH faster. It already had a decent amount of HP, but it really felt slower than a k24a3 below VTEC.
I guess It really depends on what you mean by racing. Drag racing is pretty much the only type where HP wins consistently. But you must also remember that limiting or unleashing HP can be as simple as using a restrictor plate. However adding torque can only be acheived by increasing port velocities (reducing HP) or enlarging/mechanically tuning the engine. (all motor) So some race cars (RALLY CARS) have a mountain of torque but it drops off abruptly. why would the manufacturers do this??? to WIN without breaking the HP limit.
My "restriction" is that the engine does NOT do as much past 7K. Big deal.
THE SECRET SAUCE. When I had the A2 cams installed the peak torque was 187 at 4600 RPMS. with my new setup I have the 197 ftlbs peak at 5200 RPMS (Almost 200 HP at 5250 FTW) . Lower RPM CAMs WITH i-VTEC bring the torque peak HIGHER!!!!! with more available below, this is why the car feels faster. It has more torque than a 3.0 V6 Taurus The peak torque doesnt carry on past 5500 however it still has plenty to go. Peak HP is 236 at 6900. lol Things have changed alot from the days of tuning my ls-vtec and aiming for the moon, that is for sure.
If you compare mine to a turbo car, I'm using a SMALLER turbo that builds MORE BOOST. VS a LARGER TURBO running LOW BOOST. Thicker legs don't run as fast but man do they haul a$$.
Even though I am young I get what he is talking about, driving a slow car fast is way more fun, because you can actually push it’s limit on roads
Dave great job !! Love it’s all motor sounds really good it’s more street able to enjoy as a daily driver! Keep up the great videos
I think you made the right move. No point in having so much power that you over cook the tires.
If anyone wants to do rdx injectors you can get scion tc injector plugs and just repin them. Much better then splicing your harness
Ive found myself in this state of mind. My k swap is plenty but I want more at times. Not in normal driving situations, its perfect there. Thought about trying nitrous.
You used the wrong supercharger!! Roots style blowers on those cars are magical
Simplicity works every-time, i prefer that engine setup with a set of drag cartel stage 4 camshafts and head package.
Here I am bulding a 4 digit street car lol
Since you had all the work invested could have been interesting to see if you went to a bigger blower pulley and end up somewhere in the middle of the 2 and if still too much then remove completely.
Such a beautiful car…and NA is the way to go I think for a streetcar, really enjoyed the episode gents🤘🏻
Love to see a mild NA build on this motor.
You guys should release the NC swap kit , I’ve got a turbo NC that I can’t wait to put a K in.
I'm still at the beginning of the video and I already agree. Nothing like NA. Beautiful engine bay. Compliments the cars looks.
that hybrid intake is killing it! I have hybrid CAI on my K24 EP3 & it is awesome
What a beautiful build! Glad the injectors worked out well!
It’s a good thing you left a CSX Type S alone. Those are getting rare. Imported one myself to California. It was a PIA. 😅
Much better for daily driving. Usable power for the street. I like the NA version just like you guys.
I believe it was racing legend Phil Donahue who said if the wheels aren't spinning the entire length of the straight, you don't have enough power. However, a street car has slightly different considerations 😂
there's tons of times I think less power is the right power. unless the objective with a build is to compete or display, cars are almost always best balanced and enjoyed with near-stock power.
For power I always think turbo is the way to go, but 240 HP is great amount of power for a trackday/street car. I think that car would do well with some 245 tires atleast for trackdays.
Now time for stock FD2 Spoiler, and Stock hood.
Great choice going back to N/A. Perfect amount of power!
Change the wheels and tires and keep the supercharger with less boost FOR CHRIST SAKE!! REMOVING THE SUPERCHARGER???!! WTF
Right. I have 225/45/17 rt 660s on my si making 370whp. Its a perfect daily driver. Only time it breaks traction is absolutely flooring it in 1st or 2nd. Cant even tell the car is making 370.
Can’t beat the crap out of a car with 400whp, waiting for the power is part of the fun.
Mannn the old age is catching up to you guys! All you guys need is a nice wheel and tire set up with the supercharger… more power for the win guys! Go back to supercharger lol
I would LOVE to do this to my 06 k24 accord. Itd be such a sweet sleeper and plus it looks so beautiful under the hood
its weird the intake is mounted that way, just as easy to include the battery relocation kit and stretch that intake to the headlight
K20/24 way to go.. it’s the setup in my 03 rsx-s.. with 2.2 dc cams and e85 with dc Creations intake I made 256 and it’s crazy quick!
Great choice. I didn't like the idea of having to cut out holes in the hood to fit that supercharger and also never liked staggered wheel/tire setup. Now it's more suitable for the streets like you've mentioned; more practical in a good way. Maybe fix that hole on the hood and a more subtle spoiler and it would be perfect. Love watching you guys wrench on the Hondas!
PS. noticing a bit of rattling noise in idle.