Repertoire: Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony--The BEST and the WORST
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- Beethoven's Sixth Symphony remains as sunny, fresh, and vibrant as the say it was written, but it's not an easy peace by any means to interpret. Many conductors blow it spectacularly, but when all goes well the result can be transcendent. Here are the best and the worst, along with some tips for listening that may help you find your own most satisfying means of entry into Beethoven's pastoral world.
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For me, the 6th is the most consistent "Spiritual" symphony I have ever heard as every note and phrase is blessed with light and sound. It is so uplifting.
Especially the finale. Pure accession into the ethers. Beethoven really had an epiphany with this symphony.
It is such a joy to see you and so many fellow responders giving this symphony the credit it deserves. It makes me feel sad for a writer of some academic musical stature dismiss it as a mere breathing spell between the titanic 5th and 7th. Some of those people need to get off their ivory towers and let the music speak to their hearts, if they have any.
My first hearing of this symphony was with Szell's New York Phil recording, and as a young child I was blown away when that piccolo came out of nowhere in the thunderstorm. I still have that record, along with Walter's stereo recording. Both of them are great performances to my ears.
Your enthusiasm is so infectious. It makes my heart smile.
I always go back to Bruno Walter's stereo Columbia recording. Just breathtaking.
Thank you for posting this video, even if I'm two years late to it. I grew up with some of these recordings (and the Reiner mentioned elsewhere). The Walter has been my favorite for the last decade or so since I picked it up on SACD by recommendation. Szell and Cleveland just don't do it for me, but years ago I bought the set of sym and Fleischer concertos for my dad on CD to bring him back. He very much liked them, but alas I inherited them instead of my siblings. Steinberg, Mackerras, Dorati, and Monteux were all new to me, and with 🍎 classical app, I can hear them all together in a lossless format. Not perfect, but tremendous to hear them together, as you described, and with the others to compare. Simply wonderful. Steinberg is a real surprise joy! Thanks again!
I love your childhood story, David. This is my favorite Beethoven Symphony too. My Grandpa had a farm with a brook, and the “Pastorale” reminds me of the sunset images of the farm that I remember. But I’d love it even without those memories. The music evokes the imagery all on its own. Just beautiful! Dvorak’s 8th affects me similarly, but with the sunrise instead. Or something like that. Your dissertation on it is great.
I love the Pastoral symphony.
It’s my favorite Beethoven symphony.
I appreciate the recommendations, especially since I have not heard any of your top 3.
I am loving these videos. Thank you for what you do.
You're very welcome!
Your analysis of the piece is greatly appreciated. I love it when you take the time to do this with music samples. It gives freshness to a piece that i think i know too well. I believe that we have benefited here from a few excerpts ot your new book. Thank for that! I know what I'm going to listen to today. hoping to encourage you to occasionally produce this kind of video which certainly takes a lot of time. Thanks!
I always though this piece is very boring (especially the 2nd movement) but Czech Philharmonic did it for me for this symphony . I listened to it 5 times in a row. Appreciate the recommendation and your analysis of the piece.
Absolutely a pure delight to listen to you deconstruct my all time favorite piece of music!
Excellent ! - Thank You so much! I feel that I am learning about the music I have been listening to since I was a child. Wonderful Insight - Thank You - It is always a pleasure to listen to your expositions and then hit my collection.
Nice. A detailed discussion with sound clips now. Good work !
I want to express my appreciation for the recommendation of the Monteux recording with the Vienna Philharmonic. I started listening to it recently, and it really is an amazing listening experience. It’s a recording I probably never would have checked out without this channel. Thanks! J
Anytime!
This is the piece that got me into classical music. When I was a teenager, my mother brought home from the supermarket the first album of the Funk and Wagnalls Family Library of Great Music. It was a recording of the Pastoral Symphony performed by Sir Charles Groves and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. I never knew music could be that beautiful, and that I could be so affected by it. I was hooked immediately, it changed my life, and 45+ years later I'm still listening.
The good thing about the Funk and Wagnalls series is that it wasn't just a mere collection of familiar melodies. Each of the 24 or so albums had complete pieces which were concert mainstays, and the performances were usually pretty good. It wasn't a dumbed down series. Each record was $2.99 and a new album was released every week. I started my collection with these cheap-o records my mom bought for me at Pathmark.
I had them too!
Wow, that is exactly my story. My first purchase of western classical. In 1962, in Calcutta. Karajan's. In LP. It was love at first sight; sorry, no, on first note! Though, I must confess, later on, my fav became Carlos Kleiber's. Takes the first a bit fast, but it is crisp and bright.
It is a recording of a live performance. The story goes that at the end of the performance, there were a few, hesitant, scattered clapping. Some have interpreted it as the audience refusing to believe that the music had come to an end. True or myth, I don't know but what I do know is that when the clapping started it was like a dam-burst. It continued for over four minutes. It's all in the recording. By Orfeo.
I wonder what Dave thinks about it.
Same thing for me, the first volume was this piece and it was 59 cents, I love the Groves' version but it isn't available on digital platforms. It is absolutely foundational to my love of music.
Once again, thank you, David.
Once, while I had the flu, I listened to the Walter/Columbia recording, and cried through the whole thing. Being ill or exhausted sometimes makes me hypersensitive to music. Maybe I was responding to something that wasn't there... or maybe I was, for once, responding to EVERYTHING that was there.
G98ng back again to the discussion of the 6th symphony of Beethoven is so rewarding, Dave, your clear analysis is illuminating. I enjoy the longer videos and especially about repertoire I love. I got into enjoying classical,music through watching Fantasia as a child on vhs and the 6th was a revelation to my ears as I watched the poignant images. I was the only in l9ve with it as the family fell asleep lol. Classical music is truly both acquired but also has just speak to you at a core level.
Good ol' youtube -- you mention the Monteux version of the Pastoral, and guess what pops up on my YT feed... Which reminds me that there is also a terrific Brahms' Second Symphony with Monteux and the Vienna Phil from this same vintage.
i guess it is quite off topic but do anyone know a good place to watch newly released movies online ?
Thank you so much, Dave. Music is above all about love, and your love for the 6th is genuine and infectious, so I will be more than happy, and also better informed about the second movement, to listen to the 6th again and try to find some of that same love. Wesley
Excellent dissertation!
love the explanation of the slow movement, cheers David
Good morning Mr Hurwitz I must admit a lot of your talk goes over my head but I’m learning a wicked lot I appreciate watching you and you are deepining my understanding of this beautiful music! I have a kind of unrelatid question I saw this three disk set of Copeland by Michael Tilden Thomas and SF symphony. I am not a huge fan of cowboy classical but I thought it was important to have some in my collection. Maybe sometime you can speak to Copeland collections I looked and didn’t see one. Rock on mr Hurwitz! Watchin your vids as a daily treat
Dave you are the best. Thank you.
Hi Dave, I am a new subscriber and you floored me with your review of the Monteux Pastoral---this was my very first Beethoven symphony which my next door neighbor gave me for my 21st birthday---50 years ago!!
I have loved it ever since and this conductor is one of my all time favorites! Thanks again Chas
Welcome! So glad we got off on the right foot.
Monteux was one of the few conductors who was loved by musicians AND respected by his peers.
Beethoven's 6th was the first LP I ever owned. I asked for and received it for Christmas in 1961 when I was 12 years old and I still have it. Fortunately it was Bruno Walter's recording with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, still my favorite version.
Great talk! I agree with you on your top 3. My intro to the symphony was Walter’s Columbia SO recording and it really sold me on the work-so beautiful, but I do miss the first movement repeat. Both Szell and Monteux are wonderful and I have added the Wand/NDR recording to my favorites. And for a more recent one there’s Vanska’s terrific account with Minnesota.
The second movement is my favorite part of my all time favorite symphony
I love these videos
And you have the perfect name to go along with some of the content ;)
Thank You! 🙏
Dave! thank you wonderful class on the various aspects of a symphony. I need to to know it better. Yes Paul Kletzki finally getting appreciation. And Carl Schurich too! I really love that Beethoven Bruckner box!
Thank you so much for your insightful exposition of Beethoven's "Pastoral" Symphony. I never really understood how the slow movement is put together until I heard your analysis. It's astonishing how Beethoven manages to communicate simplicity and continuity through such a complex (but seamless) structure. And your interpretation of Beethoven's famous "more feeling than tone-painting" remark elicited an "Of course! I never thought of that before!" Among the recordings you surveyed I would certainly want to place Böhm in the top tier, along with Walter and Klemperer (I'll have to give another listen to Monteux, which I don't remember that well). What Böhm brings to the piece that many others ignore is majesty. That adjective applies to his DG Beethoven cycle generally, but particularly to the Pastoral. Nature can be charming, lovely, enlivening, terrifying--but also majestic, as we hear in B¨øhm's rendering of the fourth and fifth movements. The first recording I heard as a young child, however, was Munch/BSO, a birthday gift from my mother, who had wanted to give me the Toscanini recording, but could only find Munch in the record store we frequented. A nice recording, reissued in a bargain compilation a few years ago, beautifully rendered by the BSO. Jochum's Concertgebouw version is also splendid, very much in the Bruno Walter tradition but exquisitely played by that great orchestra.
I was about to write a comment about the absence of Karl Bohm and you beat me to it!! Brought up on it! Also his Mozart and Schubert cycles too!
Thank you SO MUCH for this series! I watched your "Eighth" last week, but this one was a revelation. Your description of the way the 6th served as your gateway into classical music reminded me of my own gateway - Bernstein's "Freiheit" 9th. Extensive scientific testing has confirmed that my musicality is less than that of a dead fish, so listening to your wonderfully detailed explanation of how the 6th works persuaded me that I owed it to LvB to understand his work better, and have just bought your book. I'm really looking forward to getting much more out of my 2 favourites (9 & 8 in that order) and to having my ears opened to the merits of the 6th. THANK YOU
Thank YOU.
Great post. I love this symphony too. I grew up with a Fritz Reiner recording of the 6th. I love Monteux. I can't wait to hear HIS version(as well as Szell's)
I love the Reiner 6th. I was driving once through rural Wisconsin in summer while listening to it, when a deer stood frozen in the middle of the road. I stopped the car, of course until the deer eventually moved off the two lane road. It was truly a pastoral moment that has never escaped my memory though it was many, many years ago. So Reiner was very much part of it and has remained a favorite. The finale is exhilarating. Another favorite is a live recording of Furtwangler's return to the Berlin Philharmonic. It's beautiful. The second movement is magical.
Another very good one is Pablo Casals’s with the Marlboro Festival Orchestra! This together with Schuricht’s are my favourite ones
I'm so glad you put the Szell and Walter recordings near the top. I do have a Vienna Philharmonic recording of it as well. It's Bernstein's, though.
Bernstein's is very good too.
David:
Lovely video.... parallel childhood story...played old 78's as little kid about same age...many moons ago
except on my little portable record player on old records forgotten...who Toscanini , Well I was thankfully doomed after that
when you start at the top....great music ( and the less great) becomes a part of your daily life ... the Pastoral still retains a special place
place in my heart...not to mention a Stokowski chaser in Fantasia All the Best, Avi
Have always loved Walter. Recently heard Jochum’s late EMI version with the LSO and though the tempos aren’t the swiftest there is some lovely playing and I’m quite enjoying it lately.
Wonderful overview of recordings of my favorite symphony, thank you! I also love Comrade Mravinsky and his Leningraders as well as Erich Kleiber and the Concertgebouw and Leopold Stokowski and the NBC in this music. I really think to not take the repeat of the exposition in the First Movement is a serious flaw, which is a major drawback to the otherwise gorgeous Bruno Walter performance; kudos to Maestro Toscanini for taking that repeat in his marvelously congenial performance.
I’ve never heard the Mravinsky, but as a staunch musical Russophile I’ll listen to it soon!
Another great talk, David. Thanks. I'll listen to Monteux again. Of no relevance at all, just minutes before opening TH-cam to be greeted by this talk, I'd been listening to the 6th, with Wyn Morris, and the London Symphony Orchestra. Really lovely version from his complete LvB symphony set, which to my mind, is a real sleeper of a set. I recommend it.
I got the Wynn Morris set years ago and it has never caught me. The sound recording is a bit muddy, and although there is some really good performances none stand out. What is the best of the set in your view?
@@warrenpyke813 With so many complete LvB symphony sets available, competition is certainly strong. For example, I never felt anything towards Rattle's Berlin set. Left me cold. Back to Morris, I would say the 'Eroica' is the strongest of his set.
Oh david I loved that you went into form explanation! I should say as a jazz musician without classic culture I want to lurn about forms and structure and I didn't found resources. So already bought your Beethoven book in Kobo( unfortunately they only have 3 the mahler and strauss)
Can you let me know which videos of you have more of those formal and theoretical recommendations! Thanks for your beautifull work!!!
Try any of the Haydn Symphony Crusade videos (23 and counting) and the Bruckner Sixth videos, for starters.
What you said at the end about comparisons makes a lot of sense to me, and I firmly believe in it, even though I don't do it that often. Because I don't have the time to do it, or just plain laziness. One performance that always comes out near the top for me is Erich Kleiber. Mono, gorgeous, feels like life changing stuff every time. But I also must say that's the feeling I get most of the time with (anything) Erich Kleiber.
But I haven't heard it in a while, going to do that now...
Thanks for mentioning the Eric Kleiber. He was scheduled to record the entire cycle of Beethoven Symphonies before his death. Our loss. But at least he completed 3,5,6,7 and 9.
Thanks for the expert explanation of the slow movement. You made this so much fun! You've got me convinced, I think I'm gonna get Monteux. After all I had the RCA Victor LP of 1 and 8, first hearings, decades ago. Didn't know any other, but I always thought they were fine from the get go.
I enjoyed this thoughtful analysis of Beethoven 6 and the recordings, especially regarding the role of the woodwinds in this symphony. Szell's recording of this with the NYPO on Columbia Odyssey LP (not reissued, as far as I know) is also admirable.
Walter's half-speed master of LvB 6 is a vinyl collector's item.
Great video, Dave. I just now happen to have the 6th (Kletzki) going in my car-hardly ideal listening conditions, I know. Will listen to the slow movement again with your perspicacious comments in mind. The flow idea is key, and I’d never thought of it (I’m not the most sophisticated listener by any means). By the way, thanks for featuring the Kletzki cycle in so many of your talks. I’d never have paid attention to it without your recommendation. As I said, I’m up to no. 6, and so far no duds (though I do like the 1st mvt of Carlos Kleiber’s 5th better) AT ALL. And no period instruments or HIP, thank heavens. And you’re right about the Czech Philharmonic woodwinds. Thanks,Dave for sharing your insights. Keep in talking! Take care
Love the story about your first encounter with the symphony via Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony. Recently got the complete Beethoven Symphonies with Steinberg and the Pittsburgh, and they are, in many ways, revelatory.
My apologies for writing so much after so much time. Following as much as possible; and catching as I can. Wanted to thank you for this illuminating comment on the second movement. I have always marvelled at it, even being not educated -so that I would mix up the 'frame' you mention with the second subject. In fact I cannot imagine this second subject as boring, since it deploys like free and returns like verse. I personnally find the passage just following the storm a turning point in the symphony -not metaphysic, as you say, thus defining its moving sense of humility by being free of it. Only Markevitch / Lamoureux misses me here in your fabulous selection. I lived with a few you mentioned but for me it is one of the most characterful.
I am so glad you included Monteux. His Beethoven 2nd and 4th, on cheap RCA LPs, were among my first recordings ever, circa 1964 or 1965, when I was 12 or 13, and I still think Monteux has a wonderful touch, as it were, in Beethoven (and not just in the even-numbered symphonies, either). My first 6th was the circa 1950 Klemperer, on Vox; I remember thinking how slow parts of it were, but I now own the Philharmonia recording, and I greatly appreciate the woodwinds. As you point out. When done right, I think the transition to the last movement is one of the loveliest musical transitions in all of orchestral music--not just in LvB's works.
Same story with me. I was not even 4 years old, but like every other household in America, at the time, we had Toscanini's RCA Red Seal Beethoven Symphonies box - my first REAL exposure to classical music. And the Pastoral was my favorite, bar none. Since then, I've gravitated toward Furtwangler's May 23, 1954 Berlin Pastoral, Reiner's 1961 Chicago, and even more recently, Szell's Cleveland. The other main exposure in early childhood, my first real chamber music piece, was Schubert's Trout Quintet : the Festival Quartet with Victor Babin. It had the most beautiful classical LP cover; Arthur Singer's watercolor of a rainbow trout, swimming in translucent,
sea-green water. It's been "a few years," but these, plus the Schubert 2nd, are still my "spring pieces."
Speaking of which, could you do a BEST/WORST Schubert Trout Quintet?
I plan to, except there really is no "worst"--only not best.
"Dying ducks covered in petroleum" is definitely a first as far as I know to describe a classical performance, lol.
Mr. Hurwitz, I admire you! The repertoire sessions are wonderful. Thank you so much for your passion in the most beautiful thing in life which is music.
I have to say that I'm more pragmatic in the search for the authentic versions. Toscanini, Shuricht, C Kleiber, Chailly I think approach the best to the intention of Beethoven who disliked romantic and sentimental interpretations of his work. But my favorites are Sir Mackerras, Bruno Walter with CSO, George Szell and the miracle of the only recording by Kleiber of this monument of symphony.
The Toscanini/NBC Symphony Orchestra recording from 1952 is my first choice. After seen your video I listen to the Monteux/VPO recording.And yes indeed its a great and wonderful performance.
Thank you for such an insightful and thoughtful essay on the Pastoral, I have felt sometimes this symphony is unfairly dismissed in some quarters - probably because of many of the points you have raised - most especially what historically constitutes a work being a "symphony". In these more enlightened times (!) I think there isn't as much partisanship for one side or another as there once was and people can simply enjoy the music.
I've always had a very wide ranging and eclectic taste in music - I simply love sounds that can instil all emotions and either influence what you feel or heighten what you already feel. In my early twenties I enjoyed the nightclubs of London, particularly euphoric house and trance music - which inevitably included taking the odd E tablet - going back to classical music after really helped to calm me down and relax. I can remember vividly the day after the first time I had ever taken an E still wrapped up in that warm glow I was playing Beethoven's 6th and of course it made an already sublime piece of music into something incredible - I was in floods of tears during the last movement. I have always had an affinity to it ever since.
I will look out some of the versions you have mentioned - I have the Paul Kletzki and love his interpretations - I was so lucky to have found a set as I was really exploring classical music in the 1980's and always rated it - but no-one seemed to know it back then and this was pre internet of course. I do enjoy Karajans full throated approach in the 70's recordings (it was this version that I was listening to on that tearful day!) and I have a soft spot for Rene Leibowitz and the Royal Philharmonic from 1961 - recorded beautifully by Charles Gerhardt. As a left field - one recording I also admire is Sir Adrian Boult with the London Philharmonic in 1977! A one off stand alone release - again beautifully recorded.
Disappointments are many but none more so than Solti and the Chicago Symphony. I usually rate Solti highly for many things but his Beethoven Symphony cycle was so lacklustre and lacked musicality. To me it felt like an examination, like every note was being put on the spot and had to be justified instead of just letting the orchestra play and intuitively bring the story and emotion forward. A real shame.
Thanks for a great video Mr Hurwitz. One modern recording that one day might end up on your list is Ivan Fischer/BPO. His ongoing cycle is uneven at best, but that one caught my attention. Very curious to hear your opinion?
www.classicstoday.com/review/review-15776/?search=1
*i think* I think that Beethoven’s 6th is my favorite of his symphonies. On most days anyway, if it’s in capable hands. Yet again I adore Kletzki and the Czech Phil here, with strong rhythms, tenderly beautiful strings, and woodwinds full of life and character. My other favorites are Szell (isn’t he always?) with Cleveland, Mackerras with Liverpool, Otto K, and Walter with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra. I recently listened to the recording on audiophile vinyl and was deeply moved. It had been awhile since I had such a feeling of simple joy while listening to music. It is an ethereal but substantial performance. I’ve actually never heard the Monteux but will tackle it post haste. BTW Dave, reading your Beethoven book right now and loving every jot and tittle of it!
Thank you!
It's so funny that you remember the cover art for the Steinberg on which you "imprinted." I "imprinted" on the Walter on Columbia (my father, like your mother, had excellent taste), and I have never forgotten the two draft horses on the LP cover. I, too, hadn't heard the Walter in a while, but I streamed it not too long ago and it was everything I remembered. So good to reconnect with old friends.
Thanks for this video. I think the Pastoral is a wondrous composition!
I like Karl Böhm's so much that I haven't deeply looked for other versions, although Monteax sounds like it will be great, and I am surprised I have not looked for Klemperer's yet. I just listened to Klemperer's ninth recently and I was amazed at how center focused the woodwinds were, I heard things in his ninth I never heard before, I expect it will be the same with his sixth.
Monteux! Wonderful indeed, and I appreciate all of your choices. Monteux was my first one (in my mother's LP collection, but I had some Steinberg Command imprints as well! Out of curiosity, were you still in Wilmington DE when you discovered this, Dave? I grew up there in the 60s). I think his Beethoven cycle (although it was only issued together much later) is undervalued, but surely that's the highlight of it. The first LP of it that I bought (for 99 cents, when I was about 10) was in the RCA/Funk and Wagnalls series which was carried by supermarkets!...It turned out to be Sir Charles Groves and the RPO of all things, but haven't heard that in decades. My "sleeper" choice is the Czech PO predecessor to the Kletzki (which I love as well)....Karel Sejna, from 1953. I did a talk on pre-1960 Beethoven 6ths at a conducting workshop a few years ago, and the Sejna got everyone's attention, even more than the more overtly individualistic versions I played for them. It's the most bucolic, contented (but NOT shapeless) and sublimely gorgeous performance that I know. The winds play like gods and there's not a dead moment to be found. Now I'm going to reacquaint myself with some of your chosen ones. Thanks!
By then I was in Connecticut--I agree about Sejna, and thanks for mentioning it. It is gorgeous.
I love your childhood stories of discovering music, recalled like first loves. I tried to create such memories with my daughter. Your mom had the perfect touch -- no lecture, no pressure, just listen and look. By the way, not that it makes a jot of difference, the Steinberg LP with Bruegel's "Harvesters" was on Capitol Classics (Full Dimensional Sound). The Command Classics came later with green trees on the cover.
Yes, that has already been mentioned. She had some of the Command ones too, and I'm sure I got them mixed up in my memory.
That suit and tie bit for the 9th is priceless.
Your analyses are as welcome as they are interesting and invaluable as they allow us (me) to express what I hear much more intelligibly than I could have done otherwise.
I wonder sometimes if the composer had any idea of these analytical matters? The general framework (symphony, concerto, etc) for sure; for the rest I expect it was (and is) creative inspiration. Then, we follow up, putting into words the components of that inspiration...
Thoroughly enjoyed this, cheers. Brilliant talk.
Also made me crack up in two places, to wit:
“It could be a pack of raccoons for all we know…”
“You just see dying ducks covered in petroleum, when you listen to Harnoncourt…” What an image...
Thank you!
Great talk, Dave :) Taking the time to explain the slow movement was much appreciated as so many times I have wondered if Beethoven didn't insert the cuckoo call as a sort of ironic "wake-up"! It can feel a chore. Like you, this particular work was the first piece that got me into classical music but I was probably about 11 at the time. It was Antal Dorati on DG in my case. I was listening to Cluytens (working through that box) yesterday by coincidence and I was very impressed - basslines very clear and all not getting becalmed. On period instruments, I have felt the Immerseel performance was the best (however the rest of his cycle is). Shame about Harnoncourt I agree, although in the first movement he really (over?)emphasises that part of the "pastoral" or nature element here is conveyed by rather obsessional repetition - Janacek must have thought about this!
At least you didn't mention Carlos Kleiber, the recommendation of which set off a small summer rainstorm around the BBC Building a Library feature several years back. I listened to it and for the life of me couldn't see anything beyond a certain cultishness that would elevate it to the best overall choice....
I'm kind of astonished that nobody here has mentioned Carlos Kleiber's live version from 1983. (It's on TH-cam.)
It's very Kleiber, which may turn some people off, but I remember playing it for an old professor buddy of mine, and when the storm broke, he actually screamed! Stick with it to the end and you'll hear that the audience has been absolutely shell-shocked by the performance
It's not very special. How the audience reacts isn't relevant.
One of the best. The orchestra responds spontaneously, briskly and with great interest. Wonderful solo passages of the instruments. Simply a unique experience.
Maybe that's because that recording sucks.
PHD-level remark!@@gerardod4915
I honestly really love the Karl Böhm Vienna Phil recording. I think it isn't too slow, I think it is sooo goddamn beautiful, opposite to his recording of the 8th, that one really is too slow, but Böhm Vienna Sixth? My goodness it is devastating
David, may I say you are many things in these inestimable appreciations on this channel.. may I comment?
1) Your ability to talk to camera for 30 minutes plus, fluently, citing example of performance after example... in colossal detail, with precision.. as well as endless enthusiasm and love is astounding.
2) Your knowledge is more than an Encyclopedic... I challenge anyone in the US to know as much about classical music as you do. If I had my way I would have you as a professor in Harvard, assuming they have a music dept. Just imagine what the students would learn!
3) Have you ever thought that you are just about the most important educator in classical music? An educator of gigantic stature. I have learned buckets listening to you (I am new on your channel) after being a music lover of 50+ years. An amazing teacher..
4) As a communicator of ideas.... unrivaled. Exceptional powers of communication.
Thank you very much for your kind words. One thing I have learned though--no matter how much you know, there are always people out there who know more. Harvard has a very big and prestigious music department. I'd never qualify for admission, but I do love sharing what I have learned in this informal way. I think it's even more rewarding.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you so much for your reply. Sorry for the ignorance re Harvard and its music department. I am a UK based fan..across the pond. I should have added that in addition to your amazing communication skills, these are tempered by a most acerbic wit, which at times has some sharp edges. It is all the more entertaining for this. Just followed one of your recommendations (G. Szell for the Beethoven pastoral) and great heavens, you are absolutely right in what you say! It was sensational. All kind regards.
Loved this analysis David! The pastoral was also my gateway into classical music as a kid. There was a TV advert for, of all things, frozen peas, in 1980s South Africa that featured the main theme from the last movement. Every time it came on my mother would make a comment about it being one of the most beautiful melodies she knew. We had the Klemperer on LP if I recall. I gather that you aren’t a particular fan of Furtwangler but wondered what you thought of his early 50s studio recording with the VPO on EMI? Some controversial tempos (of course) but to my ears very involved and flowing despite some slow tempos, and a beautifully played performance where you hear a lot of detail.
And by the way, I’m not one of those “Furtwangler people”, but I do appreciate some of his better better recs (Schumann 4, Haydn 88 etc. and I like his studio Beethoven for EMI)
My first experience of the 6th was also William Steinberg and the Pittsburgh Symphony on LP, I remember buying it with my pocket money when I was about 12 years old I think. I loved it!
Hello Dave, Here Gilles from France. Please, don't forget Paul Paray and his Detroit Symphony Orchestra, his 6th is a pure pleasure. Thanks
I remember laying in bed one night and streaming the Monteux And thought OMG this is perfectly gorgeous
David's right about highlighting winds in this symphony, starting from the first movement, which begins with a bagpipe tune. I long had a problem with the cadenza for unaccompanied birds in the second movement, thinking that Beethoven had lapsed into being just illustrative. My mind changed after a walk through a large urban park that took me from a busy main street into a wooded area where the traffic noise had faded out into bird sounds. What registered with me was not so much the birds themselves as the absence of any other sound, and my own feeling of relief. Maybe it's an insight from Beethoven's disability: a knack for generating a sense of music without sound. Even the depiction of the brook itself, which I've performed as a cellist, is barely discernible by ear--a little like what's meant in that line from Mahler's Der Abschied: "Der Bach singt in der Wohllaut." After years of tuning into the 6th, I'm end up back with Beethoven's idea of what he was trying to do: "Ausdruck der Empfindung als Malerei."
All great picks! I am partial to Klemperer (and not only in "Pastorale", or in Beethoven - his Mahler, e. g.). I also wondered where you would rate Wand's 6th, since you praised the whole set to the heavens? Something like the Bohm, "almost there"? I am impatient since ordering that Wand NDR cycle, which takes long to arrive. :)
On the other hand, I agree especially this symphony can be a purgatory to sit through if not done right. Interesting how it goes in life with the less successful ones: the 6th being the "black sheep" (or rather, the "oily duck") of Harnoncourt's only complete Beethoven cycle, one would think the man would have had some ideas for doing it differently once he started the cycle anew with Concentus Musicus. He at least said as much: they collectively felt ripe and mature enough to finally interpret 'em. Not a light decision, a whim, or a ploy to cash in - the ultimate Beethoven! Well guess what. Harnoncourt managed to revisit the first 5 and died, before ever getting to the "Pastorale" again. Wasn't meant to be.
On a happy note, Blomstedt did manage a full "sunset" cycle, and I am the happier for it (and for him!). Maybe you could talk of that one at some point, different much from the 70s Dresden? Or rather a broader philosophical take: does a lifetime of experience really help overall in interpreting Classical music? Is it an asset, or else?
Actually Blomstedt is quicker and leaner this time around--claims to follow the metronome, but sometimes does and sometimes doesn't (thank God). Wand is terrific. Totally consistent with the rest.
I just heard the Philadelphia Orchestra perform this piece live in Chapel Hill! Truly splendid. To me, it is one of the works that somehow builds in emotion and interest without necessarily being a suspenseful thrill-ride (other than the storm, of course). It is so marvelous and pure.
One version I found kind of strange (the recording, not the performance) was Leonard Bernstein on Columbia. I'm talking about the original stereo LP version. It was the most closely miked symphony recording I ever heard. The strings, especially the cellos and bases, sounded like they were right next to you. And there were occasional clicks (room noises?) I don't know how the cd version sounds.
Usually reach for either Klemperer, Cluytens or,(my guilty pleasure,) Ashkenazy with the Philharmonia. Wonderfully played and recorded. The same team also set down an exuberant Fifth
Did a pretty good 7th too
The Cluytens is beautifully elegant and truly pastoral. The landscape is verdant and rolling in his imagination, yet when the storm hits, theatrical imagination is there too. The thunder is all the more violent for what has gone before. The orchestral playing and recording are first class
You clearly love this piece David. So do I - it was the first Beethoven Symphony that I played in my school orchestra days. I also have Kletzki, Klemperer and Monteux at the top of my favourites list along with Cluytens and the Berlin Phil. As for Karajan - his mono Philharmonia version has a bit more focus on the winds (probably due to Walter Legge?) but otherwise I would also avoid him at all costs. Vey enjoyable review.
The sound on Karajan remastered, 1963 pastorale (2014) is fantastic
I happened to listen to the Monteux a few nights ago and it was ineffably beautiful. I didn’t want it to end. I have it in the Monteux Decca box
Hi Dave, I noticed several classic era analog versions here and I cannot agree more about the Walter and Monteux, but to represent a more modern digital version, I love the Teldec/Warner Barenboim/Berlin 6th. The sonics are fantastic and the performance is detailed and full of inevitability. The brook scene never drys up and comes off like a concerto for winds - just great playing from the Staatskapelle.
That's a great set, I agree.
Thanks Dave for this excellent review. Is the entire Monteux/Beethoven box (on Eloquence or Decca) worth the investment in your opinion?
Chanoch Kronman
It's mostly excellent except for the Ninth, which is a mess.
Thanks a lot for your on-the-spot reply. I'm totally hooked to your video talks! I saw that Eloquence is on the verge of releasing two Kubelik sets, one Decca and one Mercury. Waiting eagerly for your thoughts on these @@DavesClassicalGuide
In the early 1980s when I was a student in Greenwich Village, when browsing in a record shop (remember those?) I came across a vinyl LP of Kletzki’s 6/Pastoral (Musical Heritage Society) also my first classical music exposure. I count myself so lucky.
Although it may no longer be a popular viewpoint, I also find Mengelberg’s 1938 Concertgebouw recording (though poor acoustic quality) t0 be particularly muscular, articulate and suspenseful. There are so many incredible recordings we are spoiled.
The 6th has always been my favorite. It's not a popular "favorite" and I do love the others. Eroica, the 5th, and I'd like the 9th better if it wasn't so ubiquitous in popular culture. Something about the 6th though has always appealed to me. The 2nd and 3rd movements are my favorite.
I agree on so much David. Beethoven's sixth is an absolute masterpiece and the slow movement is its crown. I like Klemperer's too. Yes, the third movement is slow, but sometimes that yield actually more humor to the music. Furtwaengler does something similar in the second movement of Beethoven's eighth. But, my favorite sixth is the later Bruno Walter, in spite of the annoying cut of the first movement repeat. Listening to this performance leaves me inebriated with nature!
Hey Dave, that video is already 2 years old and i wanted to keep it alive because Beethoven in the GOAT and the sixth is the best symphony of all time. Since the Beethoven's sixth is the best i needed to find the greatest version; i got Karajan, Montreux, Szell, Wand, Kleiber, Bohm, klemperer, but so far MY BEST is Cluytens with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, its perfection.
I was sure I had commented on this recording. A long comment about Swarovsky's recording, with the European Symphony Orchestra... Now, I don't see it anywhere. Well, unless I've made an enemy without knowing it, (even if...) there's no reason to panic. I'll just repeat-summarise. I find his recording reverential and ultimately thrilling. It's a rare one. I shan't bore you with more details, this time round.
Dave; I like your story on non verbal meaning of words. Listen to the music 🎶 and look at the picture. Great stuff.sir. second time I have heard this I'm slow relaxed not wondering where Bruno comes in . This is reasoned I may disagree with 1or 2 I don't care. Good education. Music, man and God or Classical music is Humankind's greatest accomplishment. Jim Svedja KUSC. L..A.
A wonderful survey of Pastorales which interestingly confirms my own choices, especially the top three. One correction which I hope will not cause you any psychological trauma due to the revelation of false memory traces: Steinberg's Pastorale recording with the Breugel painting on the cover was on the Capitol label, not Command Classics. The Capitol was an earlier mono performance and not the same as the later stereo one on Command, which has been recently reissued by DGG and which you so rightfully praise.
Wow! Well, I was only five. Thanks for setting the record straight.
I love the Monteux 1 and 8 with the Vienna Phil, but I've never heard his Pastoral.
I agree with you that if you fall asleep there must be something wrong. No doubt Monteux and Wand are very good but the performance that really captures my attention is Hidemaro Konoye. He's on the slow side and there are places that made me raise eyebrows, but when he gradually unfolded the first movement the music released sheer power, plus it was beautifully recorded and remastered in hi-res. Perhaps I come here late but thank you for your great video anyway!
I like Walter's, Bohm's, Wand's and a couple others. The one I first heard was conducted by Sir Charles Groves and it is a personal favorite for me. It was volume one of Funk and Wagnalls 'Family Library of Great Music' that they sold in grocery stores in the 80s. I love it! I will have to check out more of Kletzki's version it seems to have everything I'm looking for in this piece.
My opinions are solely based on the non-technical concepts whether it seems like the phrasing in the various parts mesh together harmonically and rhythmically in the various sections. The Groves' version sounds as musical and musically logical to me as any version although the recording quality is substandard now.
Dave, dammit, you really know your stuff. I had always found listening to Beethoven's sixth a bit of a chore, and I couldn't immediately find Monteux's recording with the Vienna Phil. However (However!) I did find the one with Boston. I was upset to see that this was a recording from 1959 (Would it even be in stereo?) and more upset to hear from the audience noise that it was live. Still, I gave it a whirl (click) on your recommendation of Monteux in general.
Suddenly, I felt the impulse running through this symphony, and I understood that Monteux was letting the music do what it wanted to do and be what it wanted to be.
Now I've found the version with Vienna, and I'll have to take that in too.
Thanks for the elightenment.
Thanks for your trust!
The Ormandy/Philadelphia is beautiful and part of a great set via Sony Japan, with excellent remastering. (The Eroica needs more gravitas but Ormandy achieved that in his RCA remake also available from Japan and Archiv--magnificent funeral march).
I grew up listening to Böhm's Wiener Philharmoniker recording, and like the long drawn out slow movement because I'm somewhat of a sentimentalist. I prefer slow tempi in works like Liszt's 'Benediction de dieu dans la solitude' and 'Vallée d'Obermann' as well, so never had any reservations about that particular Beethoven 6th either. The Szell Beethoven symphony cycle is in my LP collection and I love his rendition too. His work with the Cleveland Symphony Orchestra has really withstood the test of time.
I will probably be told I am crazy again but not knowing the Szell and Monteux my favorite is the Christoph von Dohnanyi. Its so warm and tender en lustrious rich in tone. It never never sounds dull at all Also really like the of my birthtown NPO orchestra with Jan Willem de Vriend. This one is very very lively and also very nuanced playing. Its widely unknown. Please give it a listen as well Dave ...
Will very soon try to obtain the Monteux.
I've heard these.
I heard it for the first time when my mom bought me the first volume of a classical music collection at the grocery store. It was the best 59 cents anyone had ever spent on me!
Absolutely agree about Harnoncourt. I'm not a huge fan of his Beethoven (though the slow movement of 9 is exceptional, it flows like a seamless paragraph from first to end), but his Pastorale is truly wretched. Just take the way he puts unwritten accents on the weak beats of the accompaniment figures at the start of the slow movement.
Love Szell, Mackerras, Toscanini, Blomstedt among the ones you discuss and I have in my collection. But one I never hear discussed that I like a lot is Bystrik Rezucha with the Slovak Philharmonic. On the fast side, graceful, well-proportioned. I can't remember how I heard about it, but a real sleeper in my opinion.
I own all three of Karajan's Beethoven cycles on DG - he introduced me to classical music. So Karajan's always been my "go to" conductor for Beethoven. Fortunately, I own other sets by a variety of conductors, so I promise to do a "side-by-side" (so to speak) comparison so I can hear why HvK didn't love woodwinds. I'm not terribly sentimental, but darn it if listening to Karajan reminds me of happier times. Thanks!
I agree Karajan 1962 is rather businessl like, conducted like a symphony. I haven't heard any of the others. The ones i tend to listen to are Ansermet, Leibowitz, and Otmar Suitner, which is really very nice.
I just gave Walter/Columbia/Sony a listen and it's one of the greats, it's an excellent recommendation. This performance excels in phrasing, they speed up and slow down to emphasize certain moments. It's subtle, but quite powerful. The recording's from like 1958, but it doesn't have any problems of old records. I must say, I always liked Karajan's interpretation of the Pastoral symphony, it's fast, more fiery and muscular. It suits this symphony, it's impressive how they go faster at it, but they don't lose the accents and dynamic range.
I agree with you about both. Karajan is the only point that I disagree with this excellent video.
@@AALavdas I'd add that the version from 1963 cycle is the one I recommend, the one from 1978 sounds more soft-edged.
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