Repertoire: The BEST Beethoven Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2024
- Beethoven's first two symphonies stand apart from the rest, separated by the epic gulf better known as the "Eroica" Symphony. Considering them in tandem, however, gives us the opportunity to appreciate them as the bold, characterful works that they are, and moreover, to give the Second the chance to step out of the shadows cast (albeit in hindsight) by its gigantic successor.
Musical Example courtesy of Supraphon Records - เพลง
As a teenager in the 70s I had the Karajan cycle, and now, having watched and enjoyed your videos, I have the Kletzki and Wand cycles, along with Honeck's 3rd and Klemperer's 6th. You've opened up a whole new way of listening and appreciating Beethoven for me, so thank you David! And I bet the record labels are scratching their heads wondering what on earth's going on with sales rocketing :)
Thanks. From your mouth to the ears of corporate headquarters! Fat chance...
@@DavesClassicalGuide My pocket, you mean! :)
Congratulations on reaching 10,000 subscribers!!😊
Thank you!! 😊
It often annoys me when I read or hear someone say that Beethoven was the first to do something when it was in fact (usually) Haydn who did it first. I realy hope that one day Haydn gets the recognition he so richly deserves.
Beethoven's impact on music is so huge he overshadows Haydn even though Haydn is great. Especially his late Symphonies
@@elaineblackhurst1509 That certainly has been the case for composers, God knows. For listeners, however, that perspective is easily obscured. But musicologists should know better!
You’re right, David. The 2nd is very underrated and under appreciated. It’s become one of my favorites. I love it!
Although I have Karajan and the Bruno Walter Beethoven box sets, I never bothered to play the first 2 symphonies. About a year ago I was assembling a playlist for my truck and put the 2 symphonies on the list.They're delightful, and have become favorites.
Fricsay's Beethoven 1 is my ultimate favorite not only based on tempo choices but just for the joy he brings to the performance!!
Well couldn't it have taken longer! I have been waiting for this video since you posted your talk on the Eroica. I was thoroughly excited on seeing the new video pop into my notification feed. And to make even better, you managed to end your Beethoven Symphony Talks on the high note of 10000 subs! Its been a year since I subscribed, and I have not regretted at any moment. Thank you for everything that you do and don't stop!
Regards
Detective
I love it when you play excerpts from your reviewed recordings. Keep it up! And your colourful language is refreshing!
Congrats Dave for 10.000 subscriber! I may not be here from the start, but i certainly will try yo be here until the very end. Thanks for giving this 3rd-world-classical-music-aficionado-wannabe kid so much knowledge. Here's for a 10.00 more!
Much appreciated!
Was looking out for the 10k day- and here it is! Congratulations!
Congratulations on your milestone David. Your videos have been like an island of sanity in a sea of craziness. And I've been enjoying the Kletzki cycle since you recommended it.
10K, what a day! I’ll keep going to the Kletzki well as a colorful, characterful, sprightly but serious rendition of symphonies 1 & 2. Wand is right up there too. I’ve never actually heard the Barenboim, so I’ll have to keep on listening.
Congrats on finally making it to the big 10K!
The wait is over, and what a conclusion of an epic series!
10k Beethoven! Congrats!!
Thanks, David! Love your videos. I have a few LVB box sets on the way. LOL
More than 10k subscribers. Congratulations!!
Congratulations to reaching 10.000!
Congrats on reaching 10000 subscribers!
Great talk Dave, thanks so much. I heard the Staatskapelle Dresden play the second symphony conducted by M Y Chung in Beijing (of all places) and the slow movement was just the most beautiful I have ever heard, quite fabulous. The rest was also truly wonderful, it really opened my ears to this great symphony. I bought the Blomstedt cycle mainly for the orchestra and I enjoy it so much. I particularly like Blomstedt's ability to bring out the bass lines!!
I recall a Xmas Day broadcast a few years back on WQXR, the Ninth (and I am wearing a tie!) performed by Barenboim and his young Divan Orchestra, with the Second as a curtain raiser. Talk about gemutlichkeit! Superb, start to finish. Rene Pape was the basso, and was in fabulous voice. Haven't yet dipped into the recordings, his and Kletzki's, looking forward to it. Thanks, Dave, and here's to the next 10K!
It’s so interesting to me that Barenboim waited as long as he did to make a Beethoven symphony cycle. Before he made this, he did all the Mozart symphonies and piano concertos (twice I think) two Bruckner (NEEEEEEEEEY) cycles, two surveys of the Beethoven piano sonatas (before the live one on decca and the newest covid one), he was almost 60 before he made this cycle with the staatskapelle Berlin.
You can hear how much these nine works matter to him and the care he took to get this right. It’s a great cycle and a truly beautiful account of the first two symphonies.
Also worth hearing, and watching for that matter, are the live performances he did at the proms on decca with the east-west divan orchestra, particularly great to watch in the 9th when you see the best musicians young musicians the Middle East has to offer and seeing “alle menschen werden brüder” happening in front of you.
The point is, as much as you can fault Barenboim for doing everything over and over again and remaking too much, the Beethoven symphonies aren’t like that with him .
Thanks for highlighting the first Barenboim cycle Dave. And Mazal tov on your subscriber milestone.
¡10.000 subscribers! Congratulations, dear David. My best wishes from Maracaibo, Venezuela.
Many thanks!
Another fabulous talk. Thank you David. And congratulations on the 10k milestone. I have what can only be described as an embarassingly monsterous number of LvB symphony sets! Blomstedt in Dresden is a wonderful, consistent and above all - a totally enjoyable listening experience - which after all, is what music should be. Barenboim's set - I do not know, but may investigate. Schmidt-Isserstedt - what can one say - sheer genius, too. I'm sure in the future, you'll be 'doing' more Beethoven - the most prolifically recorded composer of all time, surely? Until next time. Still waiting for the Elgar violin concerto..... LOL
I had actually just had a "shootout" between both Blomstedts of No. 2 last week. I started with the Leipzig one, which is no slouch, certainly, but the Dresden definitely takes the prize. Even the sonics seem more lively. The Leipzig cycle has a few nods in the HIP direction, which are GENERALLY nicely woven into his approach, but can be a tad fussy (some of the underplayed dynamics, mainly). Marek Janowski ia another who has added a modicum of HIP-ness in his older age. His cycle is a bit of a misfire to me, but I've heard him do some fantastic Beethoven in concert. I agree about Schmidt-Isserstedt's VPO cycle, which should not be OOP! I also really enjoy Monteux's VPO #1, a very youthful sounding reading. I love his "bang" start of the 4th movement, which will definitely wake you up. Bohm's DG VPO 1 & 2 are a tad gray, I suppose, but somehow manage to be severe/serious and sparkling at the same time, and his ear for clarity and articulation of musical lines, without shoving them down our throats, is masterful. Scherchen IS such fun!! Thanks for your talk, and perspective on the opening of the 1st. I've I had a $ for every time I've heard exactly what you describe, I'd be a moderately wealthy man.
M. Lllll)) l
Enjoyed the video! My shout-out for favorites here goes to Toscanini on #1&2 and also Mengelberg on #1. For #2, my favorite is Szell, especially on the codas for the 1st and 4th movements. Szell takes the 4th movt at a brutal pace--and speeds up at the end--yet never loses any balance or clarity.
Blomstedt just got up to num 1. I was listening a lot to paul kletzki. But blomstedt has so much power in the low dynamics! Very soft moments but such energy! And the phrasing: he just explodes. From pppp to ffff with a beautiful since and direction! I love it!
Congrats on achieving 10k subscribers.
Thanks! 😃
Delightful review. Thanks for giving a thumbs up to Scherchen and Ansermet, two of my favorite conductors, warts and all. Scherchen was my first exposure to no. 2, and Ansermet to no. 1. However, my all-time "go to" versions would be Toscanini in 1 (vitality and poise in equal measure) and--surprisingly--Solti's amalog recording of 2 (cheap thrills, but boy are they thrilling). I would also like to mention Bruno Walter's Columbia Symphony recordings of both symphonies: echt-Viennese with an American pickup orchestra. Yet it works. He gets the charm, though I'd want to follow Walter with Scherchen just to "clense the palate." And of course there is Klemperer, whose droll humor and prominent, characterful winds I was surprised didn't figure on your short list. Finally, a fine Beethoven conductor you have not mentioned in any of these reviews: Pierre Monteux. His Decca version of no. 2 (along with no. 4) has everything one could desire: vitality, humor, elegance, full-throated lyricism. Of course we all have our favorites, and it's great to get to know yours--especially Dausgaard and Blomstedt, neither of whom I have heard in this repertoire.
Both in movies and music I tend to like things that the critics don't like. Not sure why. My favorite Beethoven symphony cycle is Dohnanyi with the Cleveland Orchestra on Telarc.
I like it.
Look forward to your review of the upcoming schmidt-isserstedt decca box.
oh man this timing was PERFECT
Paul Paray's Detroit Symphony recordings of these two symphonies from the late 1950s are uber-impressive. Unfortunately they've never been "officially" released on silver disk or in downloads. Hopefully that will be rectified in a future Paray collectors' box ...
If I remember correctly, the intro of the 1st Symphony arrives in the key of G = V, and it isnt until the entrance of the 1st Theme that we hear the Key of C major = I (the Tonic).
Yes, that it true, as has been pointed out already, and I should have caught it. Thanks!
Apple Music has an album with Schmidt-Isserstedt conducting the symphonies, piano concerti with Backhaus and violin concerto with Szerying. They sound wonderful
In addition to the plethora of must-have recordings, there's another recommendation we need from you: who makes the best overflow rooms?
I am with you on the Dresden vs. the Berlin Phil. Love the way Dresden still has that bottom up warmth of sound.
Karl Bohm said that the sound of the Dresdeners was due to their proximity to Czechoslovakia, home to
"the world's greatest string players." Or words to that effect.
Couldn't agree more about the Mackerras live set. They are wonderful performances.
Another favourite of mine is the Gielen set, his approach is somewhat similar to Mackerras's. I would also recommend a budget box set (Membran) containing live performances by Otto the Great of Beethoven, Bruckner and Brahms symphonies. Needless to say they are all compelling performances.
Required listening for any self-respecting Klemperer fan.
One of my earliest (60 yrs ago) Beethoven recording was the Pastoral conducted by HSI. Regrettably, as you point out, his work is almost completely op. However, at least there is terrific VC with Szeryng in the Szeryng box.
I practically stumbled across the Schmidt-Isserstedt recordings on TH-cam inexplicably algorithmically collected in a set entitled "The Great Music of Beethoven". Go figure! I've listened to the 2nd, but had to go to the 9th for the vocalists - Joan Sutherland, Marilyn Horne, James King and Martti Talvela. They are wonderful.
I love the brass in Norrington/Stuttgart. I’ve never heard anything like that anywhere.. the rest is such fun: contrast dynamics, an absolutely committed virtuoso orchestra, fun-loving music making, full-on timpani character, the sonics are so clear, the live special atmosphere, ... i dont know if it,s correct interpretation but its the one i listen to the most
There is no "correct" interpretation, but there are some bad ones!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Haha! And some "bad-ass" ones!!! which I like (sorry for the vulgar language). What I'm certain of, it would be difficult to reason that this recordings is muddy, or boring or that the playing is sloppy, or that there are intonation flaws or that it is not coherent in its own style. The timbres are clear, the melodic lines are clear, and each instrument sounds with its own personality, extrovert and beautiful. :-)
Very interesting and enjoyable talk. I find the 2nd Symphony extremely enjoyable -- more enjoyable than the 3rd -- even if the 3rd is deemed to have more “artistic merit.” Two performances that I repeatedly come back to are Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic and Klemperer with the Philharmonia.
Congrats on reaching 10k subscribers! Nice that a talk on Beethoven pushed you over the threshold. That said, was personally a little disappointed that Beethoven's second was barely discussed in this talk (no musical examples, almost no discussion of the music itself), particularly because it is one of my favourites and, I find, consistently underrated. I appreciate your rationale for doing 1 and 2 in the same talk, and though it may be that often a conductor who does a good 1 also does a good 2, in my favourites for each (Bernstein VPO for 1, Szell for 2) the conductor disappointed me in the other symphony. I thought Szell turned in one of his more "buttoned-up" performances for 1, whereas 2 was exciting as hell. Anyway was really interested to hear your thoughts on the score itself for 2, since you provided such interesting insights into what Beethoven was actually doing in 3 through 9. Alas.
Alas. Can't have everything, I guess. Sorry.
@@DavesClassicalGuide The 2nd is possibly my favourite, bar none; and, in fact, probably the piece that first got me interested in classical music -- when I heard it performed by a schools' orchestra. (I also gave it a good old "go" on the piano, using Liszt's amazing transcription -- but let's not say too much about that!) The first movement (especially the slow introduction) is a highlight, for me, with the tonic D major constantly "challenged" by B♭ -- which I'm convinced must have influenced Mahler in the first movement of his ninth: where you hear exactly the same key relationships. It's a dauntlessly inventive and vital piece for me.
I always loved Maazel's Beethoven 1 and 2, with Cleveland, though it's been a good while since I've heard it. (It's not so easily found these days.) I was never terribly impressed by the rest of the cycle, but I think he really captured 1 and 2.
Thank you for including Scherchen. In my imagination this is the way old, cranky deaf Beethoven would have conducted his music. "F$%k the orchestra if they can't keep up! I'm up here waving the stick, I wrote this stuff and this is how it is supposed to sound! The lower rate the orchestra, the more Scherchen shines thorough. Italia-Suisse Radio Orchestra? No problem. Today you are the Berlin Philharmonic. For those that don't think old mono recordings are worth your time go no further than here. Scherchen is worth your time.
Bravo and thank you! Good choices all. For my 2 cents I'd throw in ormandy with the Philadelphia. 1 and 2 are poised, sensible, but forward moving. The Philadelphia strings in the 2nd mvt of the 2nd are heavenly! In fact I think Wand's recording reminds me of ormandy, in better modern sound .
Paul G.
In the last two days I did a back-to-back of Ormandy and Walter/Columbia Sym., both on remastered Columbia/SONY/Tower Records. Yes, the string playing is absolutely gorgeous on the Ormandy and let's not forget the fabulous tone and interplay of the woodwinds (Oh, John de Lancie, how I miss thee!). However, the Walter is the more incisive and involving performance, even with the good but lesser (LA Phil) orchestra. I'll stick with Uncle Bruno and leave the new fangled stuff to others.
Much of what you say about the 1st can apply to SO MANY different works of the musical masters of the canon... Mozart's "La Clemenza di Tito" is a HUGE example.
The opening of the First always feels like a tap on the shoulder coming from behind me.
What a great observation! Yes - I see that, now.
Wow, that's actually brilliant! And exactly right.
I would make a plea for Leibowitz/Royal Philharmonic originally on Readers Digest for #2. I love the whole cycle, but 2 does stand out to me.
Let me write my choice. It’s Walter / Columbia on Sony and Paray / Detroit on Mercury. Maybe it’s only my imprinting or sentimental reminiscence, but I’ve been satisfied with them. By the way, am I right about expecting you to do the overtures? Are there already? I hope it will be one by one, not as a clump. Thanks.
Coriolan is done, sort of, but it was one of my very first videos.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Oh yes, I've seen that. It was Munch. Next weihe des hauses please.
Thanks for mentioning Wand - he is peerless in both works (that cycle is something else anyway). I still have to say however, at the risk of being burnt at the stake, I wouldn't want to be without Norrington's LCP version of the 2nd (coupled with a great 8th IMHO) - it is brilliant in ways that Norrington sadly wasn't so frequently afterwards (generally his Beethoven cycles were appalling).
I think that's fine. I gave the highest rating to Norrington's Stuttgart Beethoven. I didn't especially like it, and I still don't, but it's a fully realized conception and I have to give credit where credit is due. So I hear you! We don't burn people at the stake anymore. We make them listen to Thielemann's Bruckner.
@@DavesClassicalGuide That feels like a fate worse than death - having to listen to Christian Thielemann's Bruckner! 😄
i love the first two, so much more than eroica. not just haydenesqe ditties or whatever they say. i think prefer the second to the fifth.
will checkout these recordings
Any thoughts on Dohnányi's first two?
It’s a pity Blomstedt only recorded 1 and 3 in San Francisco. While most critics conventionally seem to elevate the Dresden performances over the SFS ones, I personally enjoyed the SFS 1 and 3 more.
Dave I have the Szell, Klemperer Warner, Kletzki & Blomstedt Dresden can you recommend me another couple of cycles please
Watch the Beethoven Cycles video or check out reviews at ClassicsToday.com.
Check out the Best Beethoven Cycles video or the reviews at ClassicsToday.com. They will give you lots of ideas.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I’ve watched all the videos more than once!! I will check out the website.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks Dave
Just listening to the beginning of the 1st played here; and I suddenly realise that those notes are featured in Bugs Bunny. Anyone remember the episode where Bugs Bunny disguises himself as Leopold Stokowski and torments that opera singer? I think he starts out with the opening notes of the 1st.
Oh, you're in a hurry for finishing your best-[insert composer here]-symphonies videos, aren't you??: Sibelius, Beethoven, Shostakovich. Who'll be next? Vaughan Williams? Nielsen? Haydn? Prokofiev? Please, be free to comment what you consider pertinent or you want the best, no matter if our tastes or preferences don't overlap always. Take care!
Next: the best Beethoven Tenth!
Thank you so much once again Dave for doing the Beethoven countdown. In your talk about symphony cycles, you recommended the Blomstedt/Leipzig set. Now, if I'm not mistaken, in these talks you have recommended Blomstedt/Dresden in symphonies 1, 2, 4, 6, 7 and 8, and Blomstedt/Leipzig in none of them. I think this shows pretty clearly which Blomstedt cycle really is the best. Just supplement the somewhat weak fifth by the one by Karaj... oops, Markevitch, I mean.
I wouldn't say "best"--different rather. The new cycle really is superb, but I am just too fond of the playing of the Dresden orchestra, as well as they way it's recorded. But I'd hate to have to choose.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I completely agree with you about the orchestra in the Dresden cycle. Maybe the Leipzig set is worth another listen. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Hiii.. we reach the dominant at symphony 1 b.4, not the tonic… but your main point is still sound.. just wanted to alert you… warmest R🙄🧉
Thank you. That's what I get for parroting received opinion.
@@DavesClassicalGuide So pleased you mentioned the Ansermet cycle which, for all its faults, has a number of fine performances especially the first two. Bravo!
My personal experience is that I usually see 1 coupled with 3?
Not mine.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I must have been thinking of single discs, like the Toscanini. You seem to have been talking about complete sets. But it doesn't matter of course and I love the Kletski. And it was a terrific talk. Many thanks
Mind you, 1 comes with 3 with Toscanini, Karajan, Harnoncourt, Furtwangler, Pletnev, Caeyers, Mengleberg, Farrenc, Kempe, Jordan, Sawallisch &c. Just looking through Amazon...
The Bremen orchestra is the only one that can take the double metronome which pj has adopted for all the cycle. I was disappointed to see him try these tempi with other orchestras, because it means the fast tempi were not an inspired idea but a cheap trick. The Bremen kammerphilharmonie are amazing.