Ep. 195 | Straight-Walls - The Best “Primitive Weapon” For Hunting?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2021
- Straight-wall cartridges are surging in popularity as certain state game agencies integrate them into seasons where centerfire rifles were previously not allowed. Increased effective range, better ballistics, better accuracy, fast follow-up shots, clean to shoot, hassle-free loading - all in a super handy rifle - what’s not to like? For a lot of folks, the advantages of a straight-wall rifle over their muzzleloader and shotgun counterparts (in general) are many! Jim and Mark grab the all-knowing Ryan Muckenhirn to chat about straight wall cartridges - old and new. They even shoot you straight on the Crossfire® II straight-wall riflescope. A riflescope designed specifically to optimize the general ballistic curve of these great cartridges - and get you in the kill zone on your next buck!
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I would listen to Ryan talk cartridges on his own dedicated podcast.
When Ryan talks, it makes my brain happy
Agreed could listen to Ryan talk for 48 hours straight, so many questions for him...
When I saw Ryan in the preview I knew we were in for a cracking episode
I shoot a new Winchester 1886 4590 I am using cutting edge bullets Safari raptor 250 grain I am shooting them over 2900 ft per second
Also gotta admit jim and mark do a great job facilitating the conversation, It's obvious they ask questions they know the answers to frame the podcast as a listener who doesn't know as much about cartridges, with that said I wish there was an elementary and advanced talk about the same cartridges
Ryan: That cartridge is phenomenal.
Mark: We haven't told you what it is yet.
Ryan: .... phenomenal
😂😂😂
And the ______(animal) folded up like a 5 dollar tent!
If Ryan was taking on an apprentice to teach everything he knows, I’d apply for that so fast.
You'd be better off to listen to GUNBLUE490 or the REAL GUNSMITH Randy Selby.
I'd love to see a 10 minute talk on .450 Bushmaster or .350 Legend load data or capabilities. I love that Ryan has some really niche and interesting info like hinting at his reloading buddies' secret sauce for .280 Ackley Improved video. (Would *love* to see a further explanation of that data as well btw.) Every time I see you guys put a video out I'm like "Welp, gotta get a .280 Ackley." "Well, time to get a .350 Legend." "Gee, time to get a 6.8 Western." Haven't done any of that yet as I'm working towards building out a .300 WinMag for my move up to Alaska next year. Also will be going hunting for the very first time this year with a .270 WSM rifle, chosen in part due to Mark's dogged love of his .300 Whizzm.
Super cool, Thomas! We'll certainly add those to the list - we appreciate it! The beautiful thing about firearms is there is always room for one more ;) Good luck on your hunt! Keep us posted with how it goes.
We need the 450 bushmaster 10 min talk
We are missing the Big Bores!!! .375 Winchester or 38-55
Been hunting deer with a Marlin 44mag since 2005. Ive lost track of how many deer ive killed but what I do know is ive never had a deer go more than 30 yards in that time. 🤠
Me as well except an H&R handi rifle and Dan Wesson revolver. 44 mag is awesome 👍
What load are you using?
@@jasonweishaupt1828 mostly Hornady leverevolution 44mag 225gr FTX.
Greetings from Germany. I don’t have a straightwall, but you guys planted a seed. Waidmannsheil 👍🏻
Right on! Thanks for tuning in, my friend! 👊
I enjoy the heck out of these podcasts.
Amen, twin brother from another mother.
We appreciate that, my friend! Thanks for being a part of Vortex Nation! :)
357 magnum, single shot break action, with a 3x9x40 scope on top.
This rifle will use all the 38sp and +P stuff. Seems to be a good supply of factory 357 ammo and I handload. This brings out a complete new chapter for the 357 Magnum cartridge.
110-125 grain, HP for PSD. The heavy bullets, 130-180 grain for Hunting. Deer and Feral Hogs have been taken. LHCSWC 158 grain on top of 13 grains of Little Gun. A 125 HP at 100 yards will turn a groundhog inside out.
I love when the vortex podcast comes right in my ears. I actually look forward to it, kind of addicted one may say.
For the next 10 minute cartridge talk, the 250 savage (first cartridge to reach the 3000fps barrier), or the 300 savage (parent cartridge of the 308 Winchester), would be fantastic.
I love that you are creating these podcasts, and doubly so for having videos. Information is endless and appreciated.
You guys need to talk about the .375 H&H. The first "magnum" cartridge. The first belted cartridge.
Agreed
.400/375 Veloplex.
Agree 💯 also the 300 H&H I love them more than my boyfriend!!
second
Great video. Full of good info. P.S. I live in Illinois and 2023 was the first year that single shot rifles were allowed for deer hunting. Prior to this year, it was shot guns with slugs, muzzleloaders.
Effective Jan. 1, 2023, the legal calibers for single-shot rifles in Illinois are:
a bottleneck centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding one and two-fifths inches, OR
a straight-walled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger.
Both must be available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500-foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.
Full-metal jacket bullets may not be used to harvest deer.
The cartridge can not be .50 caliber or greater.
These caliber specifications are the same that hunters may be familiar with for handgun deer hunting in previous years. The barrel of a handgun shall be at least 4 inches.
"Single shot" means a gun that is either manufactured or modified to only be capable of holding a total of one round in the magazine and chamber combined.
"Single shot" does not include a rifle in the possession of a person who is also in possession of or in close proximity to a magazine that would allow the rifle to be capable of holding more than one round or a revolver.
A rifle shall be considered a single shot if there is no magazine in possession of or in close proximity to a hunter in the field and the gun can only hold a total of one round.
Listening here from Ireland 🇮🇪 would love to here a 10 minute talk on the 6.5x55
Is that a popular hunting cartridge in Ireland?
I wish the 375 Winchester would make a comeback
so much fun to watch/listen to you guys! Keep it coming!
3 of my favourite guys on you tube and the encyclopaedia that is Ryan I never get tired of he’s knowledge. Keep up the great work gentlemen
You're too kind, Nick! :) Thanks for being a part of Vortex Nation!
Always enjoy listening. Keep em coming!
Love listening to you guys. I love the way you all discuss things. Ryan is a great guy, to be as smart as he is with history and firearm knowledge but never to me comes off as a know-it-all. Even though sometimes I don't always agree with everything he says due to what I was taught and read in the past. It is still a preveledge to hear from is knowledge and point of view, just to learn more or brings me to do more research on my end. All of you a smart and professional guys that I listen to on hear. Just thanks to all of you and please keep it going. 💯
Canadian Listener Here. Keep up the excellent work.
The 357 Maximum was a great rounds for a lever gun. I’d prefer a Marlin 336 in 357 Maximum.
I chose to add a 350 legend upper to my arsenal because 350 legend ammo was on the shelf at quite a few Walmarts that I stopped in at.
I live in Virginia and it seems like a pretty sweet deer and pig cartridge for reasonably close ranges. Plus, huge efficiency in a carbine!!!
In the 50s, deer season in the upper Mid-West was when Government Cattle started grazing too much in your pasture.
Drop another straight wall podcast when you release the .44 mag and .357 mag BDC scopes in 1-4 LPVO. As a hunter who only seems to hunt in these straight wall states I really enjoyed this podcast. P.S. out of the three people including myself who own ruger american predators in .350 legend...all three are sub moa guns @ 100 yards
I think 99.9% of Ruger Americans, regardless of caliber, shoot sub MOA. If they had a bolt lock mechanism I’d own a bunch of them.
They're making .44mag BDC scopes?! Told myself I'd never put a scope on my Redhawk or 1894, but that is tempting... Might be a good excuse to find one of those Ruger .44 carbines too, lol
You guys covered it very well, in my humble opinion. 👍
Great overview of some fun cartridges. I for one have been thinking 🤔 about a few of them. I have two bottleneck cartridges in the .270 Win and .300 WSM, but outside of my CVA Optima V2 50 cal I don’t have any rifles or slug guns to take to my neighboring state of Ohio (I live in West Virginia) where my wife’s Mom and Stepdad live. I was interested before I recently got married.
I have a quandary in that part of me likes the .450 BM in the same gun that you have on the table in the Ruger American Go Wild (but the 22 in barrel). I almost bought a standard A2 style upper in the bargain cave of Cabela’s multiple times 6+ years ago but never pulled the trigger.
The other part of me really really wants a lever gun. I just love everything about them. They have such a cool 😎 factor, Cowboy action, a fun repeater, etc… So I have thought about the classic 45/70 Government, the 444 Marlin or 44 Mag. My youngest brother and Dad both have 30/30s so I want something larger.
My youngest brother has the 350 Legend in an AR which is fun, he might let me borrow it if needed. I have thought about that same 350 Legend on the table for my wife as her first gun. No recoil and pre 2020 not too expensive ammo wise.
Give the people what they want: Ryan on podventures
Great to hear a plug for 357max, it never gets enough attention.
Metal cartridges with a neck or taper open up higher pressures, which leads to speed. Prior to that, power could only be achieved with heavier bullets at lower speeds, so we got to .72! The 30-30 started it, being the first smokeless and being used by the lever actions that were designed for the pressure.
30 caliber on 30 grains, not exactly a screamer but it sure lit a fire that hasn’t went out!
What took me by surprise is I just recently found out they added 350 legend to our primitive weapons season cartridge list down in Louisiana and that was introduced a few years ago. But other than that we have 45-70, 444, and 35 Whelen we can shoot down here as long as they're being shot out of a single shot rifle... I love primitive weapons season it adds about 3 weeks to my deer season normally when not as many people are hunting... Great podcast guys yall rock!!!
Unless it has changed recently its anything over .35 caliber, and is single shot with an exposed hammer. The fact that .35 whelen is "primitive" is insane.
@@sstrongman1667 yeah 35 Whelen is kind of crazy because it's basically 30-06 necked up to a 35 cal but it's an older cartridge. The 350 legend is a modern cartridge I'm assuming since it met the 35 cal and firearms were made is why it got accepted in the primitive weapons list... Personally I shoot the Thompson Center Encore in 444 Marlin but I'm really thinking about getting a 350 legend... Take care brother and good luck this season!!
I went the 444 route myself before they dropped the requirement from 44 caliber to 35 caliber. It does pretty good out to 150 or so. Good luck to you as well.
That explains why CVA is making to scout in 35 whelen. Thought it was a strange chambering in a single shot rifle
@@sstrongman1667sshhhhhh!!!
Great pod cast. My case for the 450 bush master is just another tool in the tool chest. I use mine for short distances (corn/bean) fields. My 308 for other hunting situations.
This song reminds me so much of my beautiful son.
We always watched sunrises and sunsets. We would lay outside and watch. We would watch meteor showers too.
His love of sunsets entered into his love life too. He and his fiance would sit outside every day after work and just watch...
I lost my beautiful son January 5th of 2022.
I listen to this song over and over when I'm alone and just think about our time together with God's majesty andjust cry.....
Damnedcif I do and damned if I don't is the way his life was with her.....
Yes they loved each other, but were toxic...
Thank you to anyone who reads this and feels the pain in my heart everyday 💔
Hanks mom, forever 30 and 25 days
12/11/1991-1/5/2022
(Destroyed by jumping out of a car to get away from arguing)
Yes Hanks choice, but if anyone else does experience this toxic relationship, please escape. He didn't hurt himself on purpose, but ended up with Traumatic Brain Injury..................
The valves in your car engine have tapered seats for a better seal and more power.
Great job love these. My son took his first deer last year with a 357 single shot Henry. Did a wonderful job. As far as the Reticle goes, has there been any thought of circles? I know another company used to do that, and I really liked it. Because it gave a person 3 reference points to further help with the challenges of averaging our all the data.
I think it’s awesome you guys did a Crossfire II for straight walls. I feel like you need to revisit having a slug gun/muzzleloader scope in your catalog of offerings. I remember the podcast…I believe it was the one that talked about the roots of vortex and the hits/misses the company has had…and that you used to have one of these scopes, but that it might have been the wrong timing. That happens with a lot of products…like the flop of a full-size SUV Subaru Tribeca that they could barely sell…now all you see are people driving the even bigger Subaru Ascent (you’re welcome for the car analogy Jimmy!).
Curious why you chose 3-9x50 though? Seems like 40mm has been more popular than 50mm for a long time. Not saying 50 is bad…I know it gathers more light or whatever but just seemed like an interesting choice.
Keep up the great work guys! Can’t wait for the next one!
Interesting and good info for me. Im new to learning about all the different calibers etc
Love the 45-70 and I have 4 rifles chambered in that cartridge. An 1874 Sharps, !885 High Wall, 1886 Wincbester, 1895 Marlin. J'm 72 and old school but looking forward to a 350 Legend rifle.
I totally agree, 45/70 is the class of the field.. I had a friend back in the eighties who used to shoot 357 maximum and he loved it I totally agree with Ryan. 357 maximum in AR platform... I am absolutely down With that,
Coming from A 45/70 fanboy , That should tell you something
That is certainly an intriguing combination. I love the 45-70 as well. Straight wall rifle cartridges just do what they do really, really well. I’m partial to lever actions too though, so I’m probably biased.
I shoot a 450 Bushmaster - pistol and rifle. Reload for it. Just love it! Can load it to the stats of a 460 S&W with no signs of pressure.
Love the show. Listen to y’all podcast almost everyday!!!! Just picked me up a CVA SCOUT .350 legend for primitive hunting here in Louisiana…. Also listened to yall show on 35 whelen and down here it’s a hugely popular round because it can be used for primitive and regular deer season here… primitive just has to be single shot, breach load and larger than .35 caliber in LA..
Heck yeah - we appreciate that, Tyler! Good luck this season.👊
Just added Info here in Indiana we aren't a straight wall state but we have size requirements 357 minimum diameter and case length min of 1.16in to 1.80in maximum
From wisco, here, waited over 20 min to hear 350 legend mentioned 🤣
WI is not a 'straightwall' state, and the reason i used 350 deer hunting this year was availability. Many times i found only 350 on shelves- Seriously totally bare bullet shelf, save a dozen boxes o 350legend😆 best dumb decision i ever made. Cartridge aint too bad, either. Ran it thru an AR15 i rebarreled- one shot, one dead deer. 👍
here in ohio we are only allowed to use straight wall catridges for hunting
The only reason I could quickly found is the response to search below
"Why do some states not allow bottleneck cartridges?
Why do some states and jurisdictions ban bottleneck cartridges in rifles for hunting? It generally has to do with density of population. As a rule bullets from bottleneck cartridges travel further than those of straight wall."
I shot a crossfire II with my 450 Bushmaster (with brake removed) and loved it, but the recoil broke the scope in about 30 rounds fired. Rather than take advantage of Vortex's legendary customer service and get it fixed, I decided to return it but double down on Vortex and pick up the Viper HS in 2.5-10x44. It's shorter and lighter than the 3-9x50, so it goes better on my Ruger Ranch brush gun. It does better in low light despite having a smaller diameter objective, so I guess it's true what they say about glass quality and coatings. And ---here's what sold me on the Viper...the BDC hashes on the dead hold are reaaally close to those that were used on the 3-9x50 Straightwall. They are all a bit thinner, which has pros and cons. I think I liked the reticle on the Crossfire II better to my eye. But the extra field of view at 2.5x is really noticeable and really appreciated. If you're willing to take the risk of recoil damage, grab the Crossfire II. If money is no object (haha), put that $500 Viper HS on your $500 rifle and be done with it.
Great talk guys! Living behind the iron curtain in the People's Republik of Virginia in a "shotgun-only zone" (you can use archery or muzzle loader which always confused me) if I had the option of using a 12ga slug gun or a .350 Legend, I would choose the Legend any day hands down! Especially if you're going to be shooting from "an elevated platform". Then again, I'm still surprised that we can still hunt in this state! We can't even hunt on Sunday on public land thanks to the dog hunting crowd. "We HaVe A lOnG tRaDiTiOn Of RuNnInG dOgS iN tHe CoMmOnWeAlTh". SMH
It is so serendipitous to have this particular episode of the podcast, which I know was timed to coincide with the release the the Straight Wall Crossfire II. People are going to ask, why not just use the Crossfire II Dead Hold? Or any of the LPVO like the 1-6 type of scopes.
First off, this is not a long range cartridge and so you need a reticle that is designed for a max of about 300 yards. And there is no need to spend $1800 on a scope when this will literally be all you need. And now I get to the serendipity. Right this very day, I am in the middle of reading "Elmer Keith Big Game Hunting," (kindle version on my tablet) and I could recommend this book to anyone and you will get to read stories of actual hunts using these and similar cartridges. .450 Bushmaster can hunt deer up to moose and bear. I know Mark hunted bear with the .300 WSM (regardless of how us texans pronounce it, and I live in Texas and don't know how we pronounce it other than 300 Short Mag. We assume the Winchester part.)
In the book, they are shooting .35 Whelen and .405 Win. Even a triple 3. Average grain weight around 250 and average MV around 2200 fps, some even slower. What is this for? Hunting big game in woody areas where you shots are less than 300 yards. In fact, many is the shot taken through the woods at less than 100 yards. If you shoot a .30-06 that close, even with an expanding bullet, the fear is that it will be moving to fast and blow through and not do enough damage. There are plenty of stories shooting twice and thrice with a .270 Win heavy grain and the harvest still escapes.
This is tough backwoods hunting and it is going to be far easier to harvest and haul meat if the beast drops right where you shot him. And that is, the theory goes, best accomplished by a large caliber moving slowly and having time inside the target animal to expand and stop the functioning of heart and lungs right now, or very soon.
An animal shot by a hunter dies of brain death. Allow me to man-splain. So, you were steady on your tripod and got a round right through the vital v blew off the top of the heart and some gaping holes in lung tissue. And rather than knock the beast over, he simply stumbled and fell. But his legs are still moving. The "ghost run." Eventually that stops when the brain stops. The brain stops because the damaged heart and lungs are no longer able to deliver oxygenated blood to the brain of the moose or elk that you shot. On the converse, I have seen a person bring down a moose with one shot from a 6.5 Creedmoor at 143 grain. Placement is key, of course.
Right on about the semi-auto. I have two semi-autos from Windham Weaponry but they also have a 450 Bushmaster called the 450 Thumper for less than $2k (bare bones.) And you have the Rugers there. I just checked Mossberg. There is the Patriot synthetic stock at 450 dollars, the walnut stock at 539 dollars. Totally affordable. Amazon carries this scope. If you ordered right now, on Monday night, you could have it Friday the 3rd. You would get it possibly before the rifle shows up. By the way, the Vortex sport mount is great for rails on semi-autos. My Windham Weaponry R16SFST-308 had a Diamondback Tactical 6-24/ 50 mm and then I changed out to the Venom using Vortex AR style sport mounts because they have the right amount of offset and don't let go.
Otherwise, on the bolt actions, the Vortex 1 inch tall rings will work on the Mossberg. I know because I did that on My Mossberg Patriot .308 win and just did it again on my TC Compass II .308 Win with one of the Diamondback Tacticals I had laying around after upgrading other rifles to the Venom. Get the synthetic stock 450, scope 180 after tax. Good Vortex rings. Splurge and get the Pro medium height rings at 70 dollars. 10 dollars for a generic sling but I am not going to count that because everyone has a few slings laying around. that's about 700 right now. You can add a cheek riser and ammo grip and finger grips from Goda Grip for about 60 bucks. Or do your cheek rise the old fashioned way with craft foam and vet tape from Amazon, 20 bucks - ish. Call it an even 750 for all of your outfitting. Spend the next 200 on ammo and a little bit left for range fees. Outfitted, sighted in, and ready for mule deer for $1,000. With a rig that will last a really long, long time. And you can hunt anything within 300 yards. And most deer hunting is within that distance.
Ryan did an outstanding video on how to true your reticle. Granted, the engineers have to assume some averages. So, you take the specific data from your cartridge and input it into a ballistics calculator, such as the LRBC at Vortex's site. Choose 10 yard increments, and a 500 yard max range. In the reticle manual that comes with the scope, there will be a drawing that shows what the actual MOA of the hash marks are. I think the first one down is 2 MOA. Look on the drop chart that you just created and look down to 2 MOA or as close as you can get and look to your left and see the yardage. That yardage is now what that the hash mark means. If you wanted to get fancy, you could print just that reticle drawing and save as a PDF. Then go in to the pdf reader and choose "fill and sign" and type in your trued yardage. Then reduct and then print current view to the size you need.
There is also a phone app called Strelok Pro for a few bucks that will take your information and not only come up with a reticle diagram but depending on the distance you are shooting, will show you should aim with your reticle.
Given enough time, you will just memorize it and say, okay, first hash mark down is 175 and I am shooting 200 yards so, kind of halfway in between that one and the next.
I just went to LRBC and chose Hornady .450 Bushmaster 250 grain. The closest on the list is 2.1 MOA and that equals 160 yards. so, actually, pretty dang close. You get back on to that first mark, that is going to be 150 yards, within 1 MOA.
Anyway, for not a lot of money, you can hunt any large game. I know you want to say, Ron, how can you sneak up on an elk to less than 300 yards? Because my friend, John, hunted deer all the time and once got an elk with his .50 caliber black powder muzzleloader. That is just about all he ever hunted with. Even down to whitetail deer on his aunt's property. His cousin, however, was the one good at getting feral hogs and I smoked one on my grill and man, was that every good. I should retire from my day job and open a barbecue restaurant.
The book I mentioned is full of stories of getting within 100 yards of the big game. The author smokes a pipe. It's called using the wind to your advantage. If you are upwind of the prey, they will smell you and your scent hider spray and be gone. Come up down wind of them on a windy day and you will get close enough that these cartridges are going to do what you want and drop the dinner, right there.
Grew up pretty poor. Our deer guns were single shot 20 gauge Steven’s break actions. Absoloutley incredibly punishing recoil for a kid. My dad never thought twice about it. Bad side is you will develop a flinch as a 13 year old kid. Good news is a .300 win mag seems fairly tame.
I've got one of your 1-6 Strike Eagles on my 50 Beowulf. I've got dope out to 500 with my 350g load. It's like watching box cars fall from the sky 🤣
I especially enjoyed this podcast guys. Well done! 450 marlin is another sledgehammer...maybe I missed you guys talking about it.
The Beowulf was the first cartridge I thought of, and on down the list of A.R. large bore calibers.
Great video fellas. Well done.
Side note: You Vortex boys need to get on Savage a little bit with their QC. I just bought a 110 APEX in 350L, w/ the Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x40 allegedly mounted properly, boresighted, etc. Suffice it to say, that scope was canted as hell when I pulled the gun from the box. 🤦♂ Not sure if it was made on Friday or before Christmas perhaps? Good help is a diamond in the rough these days. I suppose its possible a lax FedEx driver threw the box over the fence when he dropped it off at the ffl (jk), but the box appeared unscathed. I guess I will find out when I go to the range.
Anyhow/nonetheless, I can't wait to try it out. Thanks again.
He was surprised the .444 Marlin was being used in some states in deer hunting season. I wonder why, the .35 Whelen is also allowed in some of those same states. In some cases I believe it might have to do with the diameter of the bullet. The .444 Marlin of mine harvested my 2018 elk at 244 yards and the elk did not take another step after the bullet struck.
The Population density of some states. Straight wall cartridge projectiles are lower velocity, like the 45-70 have trajectories like a brick. This lessens the likelihood of an errant roung going through a house.
I would like to see you guys talk about the 360 Remington
You might want to mention that one reason for moving from rim fire to center fire is because the rim fire case was much softer so could not be charged as highly as a centerfire.
I am shooting a new Winchester 1886 extra light 4570 I am using cutting edge bullets Safari raptor 250 grain I shoot them over 2700 ft per second no trouble to kill a deer at 300 yards
I'd love an episode on the history of a cartridge that Ryan thinks was a flop, or doesnt perform well at anything, or was designed poorly.
If it even exists.
40 S&W
@@JohnMaxGriffin ah yes. The "not quite a 10mm, not quite a 9mm" cons of both without the pros of either.
7-30 Waters
50 Beowulf
30/03
25-20 Winchester
25 Remington
30 Remington
35 Remington
@@ChitFromChinola do not disparage the 50 Beowulf
I inherited a model 94 chambered in 38-55 10+ years ago. Fun gun to shoot. Cartridges have been difficult to come across. I just cast my own from tire weights. Loading up some hot rounds, was significant over Winchesters only offering. I read they under power them because alot of barrel bore dimension variance over the years. Don’t want to damage your antique.
Picked up a 350 Legend recently, because most of my shots are inside of 50 yards, and I wanted a light recoiling bolt action that would hit game with authority. Plus, now I can hunt in a straight wall state, if I want. The Savage axis is a great short, lightweight, handy woods gun.
Love to see a new bolt action 45/70. So much aftermarket for 45/70. 45/70 forever!
Field test time! Would love hear about 350 legend and 450 bushmaster after all 3 of you guys took them out for a spin. Either hunting or the range.
The 500 mag in e rifle will give you food for thought crazy power , watching it again and saw your comment,👍❤️ happy travels bro.
@@cornbreadburgess1950I was so intrigued by the Big Horn Armory M89 in 500 S&W when I handled on at Cabela’s. But something about the lever on closing…just didn’t feel right. Then I watched Hickok45 while he was shooting his and his lever was giving him trouble. A lot of money for taking a chance on an employee having a bad day and taking it out on a rifle he/she is building.That’s the only repeater I know of in 500 S&W. Sad
My pop brought a semiautomatic 20ga with a rifled barrel. Shoots a 240 grain .44cal jacketed hollow point sabot load at around 2100fps. Here in the hills of eastern Ohio where ranges rarely reach beyond 125 yards it is dynamite.
I chose to pick up a $250 Bear Creek upper in .450 and love it.
I like straight wall cartridges. Always have. My favorite to shoot is a .44 magnum, which, performance-wise, is the modern, high pressure equivalent of the old .44-40. My next favorite to shoot is a .375 Winchester or .38-55.
I shoot the 350 Legend in a Savage 110 “18 inch barrel “ with a Crossfire regular BDC. Zeroed at 100 yards at 9x, 150 grain Deer Season second line is 200 yards, 180 grain PowerPoint 2.5 is 200 yards.
By second line, do you mean the first line down from dead center is the 2nd line? Or the actual second hash mark from dead center with a 100yrd zero?
In Delaware - Only straight-wall cartridges usable in handguns. Strait-wall case length (without bullet), minimum of 1.25" to maximum of 1.82" for calibers .357 to .380, maximum 1.82" for calibers .41 to .50.These rifles cannot be used for deer hunting north of the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal. These rifles cannot be loaded with more than three cartridges in the chamber and magazine combined when hunting deer. These rifles may only be used for deer hunting in place of a shotgun during the November and January shotgun deer seasons or in place of a handgun during the January handgun deer season. A handgun shall be limited to revolvers and single shot pistols with a minimum barrel length of 5.75 inches and not exceeding 12.5 inches and chambered for and using straight-wall handgun ammunition in .38 caliber with a cartridge case length of no less than 1.25 inches or in .41 caliber to a maximum of .50 caliber and a maximum case length of 1.82 inches.
A single shot an antique or authentic reproduction black powder Sharps rifle of 45 to 60 caliber shall be lawful for use during shotgun deer seasons using paper patched bullets. ONLY a Sharps rifle. EXAMPLES: NO Ruger No.1 or No.3, NO Remington Rolling Blocks, NO Browning High Walls, NO Trapdoor Springfield, NO Thompson Center, NO CVA Break Action, etc. ONLY a Sharps. WHY? Because some rich people with political influence wanted to shoot THEIR Sharps. There is no performance advantage if shooting a Ruger No.1 or a Remington Rolling Block, or any other single action rifle using "paper patched bullets". And why ONLY "paper patched bullets"? Because rich people with political influence wanted it that way. Money talks and corrupt politicians that can be bought.
You mentioned 357 Remington maximum would be a great cartridge for a rifle. It's really awesome. I have a MGM barrel chambered for 357 RM mounted on a TC Encore frame. Using near the max. charge of 296 and 140 grain Sie. JHP on top for best accuracy and speed of 2170 fps @ the muzzle. It's a wonderful cartridge. BTW practice with any given gun at distances intended will take a lot of guess work out of BDC tuning. I'm pre everything of the modern world optics and shoot a number of cartridges out to 450 yards my max distance for respectable animal takedown. I use a nice crosshair combined with high-end glass and human eye holdover. About to turn 70 and taking down whitetail every year using the same process since 1968 and it's been working just fine without using my fancy BDC supplied in many of my scopes. Practice want make perfect as the old saying goes but it will make a great marksman out of ya. Rangefinder is my best friend and the trained human eye in the field!
Nice to see some normal people range hunting stuff.
🤜🤛
357 maximum out of a handi rifle, 158 gr xtp, 23.5 grains of H110, 2200fps, smokin straight wall deer killer. Also a forgotten cartridge is the 38-55 or the 375 Winchester.
Not on topic but 8mm Lebel is an interesting example of something that can be stacked in tubular magazine with a pointy tip.
I’m thinking about getting a straight wall open sights for my public land hunting in Florida they only let you use rifle in rifle season on public here now so to try to make it more fun than the old 280rem
I just confirmed shipping on a 17" 350L for an stoner platform. Planning on using the 4-12 x 56 AO scope. All I need now is some of that post-2020 priced ammo.
Gotta love these podcasts this one was great next one should be about slug guns
Slug guns would be a cool one to dive into. We'll add it to the list. Thanks, Noah! :)
I agree. I think a 20 gauge slug gun with sabots is about as good as it gets for a slug gun .
Glad he brought up the .357 Rem Max.........I had one of the first 200 14 inch TC barrels that came out of the factory and had a set of dies for it before the guns were available. I've been hand loading, swaging, and casting for it since it was available, as well as hunting deer with it forever. Our (upstate NY) area was shotgun for years, and only handguns from the early to mid 80's on.......for me it was a no brainer once handguns were legal. Being originally from the "rifle legal" area of northern NY, then moving to the shotgun only southern tier really sucked, but the handgun addition added a better option. To be honest, after all the deer I killed with the .357 Max, anything within 200 yds. using Sierra's 170 gr. Power Jackets dropped like being hit with "Thor's Hammer"......the visual reactions overall were much better than the rifles I ever used, as well as the lowly slug gun. Also wished they made a lever action for it....they'd clean up. I bought a new single shot Henry in .357 Mag and it's off being rechambered now.......
That 450 81tch cat at 30:24 is amazing cartridge you should talk more about it.
Michigan southern lower peninsula is shotgun only. They opened it up to straight walled with a maximum case length. Can’t remember off the top of my head what the length is but 350 Legend 450 bushmaster 460 S&W are all legal. 45-70 isn’t. Not sure about 444 marlin. I live in northern lower but picked up a Ruger ranch in 450 bushmaster. Was thinking it would be super handy and great handling in a blind when hunting in thick woods with short shots. Going to out a LPVS on it. Also got a CVA scout pistol (similar size and function as a TC encore) in 350 legend. It’s pretty sweet shooting. They won’t replace my long range 6.5cm that I built for out in the fields but I think the 450 will be a great woods rifle
I am insanely attracted to Ruger #1 .450 but already have a .44 mag rifle. Resist the urge to buy more guns. Resist!
Resistance is futile
Wish you would have touched on Mississippi and Louisiana primitive weapon season, that allows large bore, single shot, center fires in muzzle loader season. Not sure if any other states are on board yet, but
Good ol Wisconsin used to be like that with the no rifle thing. When I used to live up there, first started hunting after getting my DNR Hunters Safety certificate at the age of 12. I was so sad as a kid to learn in Southern Wisconsin it was a shotgun slug or handgun only. I totally wanted to get my first deer with my dads old 30-06!!! Seriously bummed me out, LOL They changed that though so now statewide unless in a unit otherwise restricted, one can now use the rifles.
Love these videos
Great episode as usual fellas!! Been wanting a 350 legend in the Ruger American platform but, think a 6.5 Grendel would be would be another fantastic choice.
I just built an AR 6.5 grendel and I love it. My next will be a 350 legend. I built the 6.5 for coyote hunting it’s the largest we can use on private land and only a shot gun with no slugs in ky on public land.
Great talk, with Illinois being added to the list of strait wall single shots, year 2023, what would you choose with new Remington 360 Buckhammer thrown in the mix???
Just got into straight walled cartridges I never knew in my county that I could hunt with them and I’m stuck between a 45-70 and a 350 legend for the new hunting rig
From what I've been reading in the regs Iowa has started to allow bottleneck cartridges provided they are 35 cal or larger. Theres a list of allowable cartridges on the Iowa hunting regulations website and it says the lost is not all inclusive then list the benchmarks you have to meet. Thinking of building a 35 Whelen.
I have a stainless steel Siamese mouser , with a 24 inch barrel. I shoot a 405 grain 45-70 at 2375 ft/sec. This has over 5,000 ft.lbs of e ergy . No excessive pressure signs.
Another terminal ballistics episode on specific hunting bullets would be awesome. Is anything needed other than a good old Nosler Partition? Would love to hear y’all’s experience with different bullets
I’ve loved Partitions for decades. But they’ve become so grossly expensive(even way over more precious homogeneous bullets. How has lead gotten that much more expensive than lead?!) I question Nosler’s motives regarding the Partition
My 8” barreled 460 S&W Mag has an average velocity of 2350FPS with 200gn FTX rounds. I can only imagine what that velocity would be in a 16.5”-22” deer hunting rifle 😮. Seems it might be faster and hitting harder than many of the new straight walls (350 legend, 360 Buckhammer, 450 bushmaster rounds). Wonder why more rifles weren’t chambered for this?
I know some states that used to not allow centerfires have begun allowing straight walled cartridges. Well, my state has always allowed centerfires because we aren't a shitty state like that, but if the SC DNR would start allowing straight walls during muzzleloader season, I would quit breaking the law during muzzleloader season. I've shot several deer with the old muzzleloading .308 and 30-06.
We can use the 350 in brake open for our primitive weapon season in Mississippi. Primitive Season we can use anything over a 35cal. only if brake open like New England, H&H, or CVA.
Best primitive weapon for hunting....the longbow
Bear creek ballistics makes a 240 grain more aero dynamic bullets getting 2400 fps nasty deer load
It would be nice to hear about the 30 Rem. AR in your podcast. P.S. love your show
I think that this cartage is unknown but one of the better AR calibers
Love to hear Ryan's thought's on it
Any thoughts on what you would use different straight walls for? Why would one person want to go with the 45-70 or the 35 Whelen or 350 Legend over the others?
The old 444 Marlin with Marshal of Bear tooth bullets load data . Takes the Triple 4 to a new level. Think I was 2100 fps with a 300gr bullet from my '78 336 444. That load would give just shy of 3k ft lbs of energy. Anchoring deer is an understatement lol
I wish that crossfire scope was available in the diamondback or viper glass!
I currently live in Michigan where the .450BM was created. Rumor here has it that Randy's Gun Center in Bad Axe, Mi worked with Ruger to create the 450 round. In Michigan about half way through the state there's a "rifle line," which is just a freeway that runs across the state, east to west. If you are above the rifle line, you can use any rifle, but if you are below the line, you're limited to shotguns, muzzleloaders and straight walled cartridges. I bought my .450BM a few years ago, taken several deer with it since buying it and I must say I am in love with that round. The furthest track job I've had is about 10 yards. 9 times out of 10 will drop them in their tracks. Most of the shots I take are beyond 100 yards, but definitely within 200 yards. After reading some of the other comments below, someone mentioned size requirements. We have that too in Michigan. You can use a 350 Legend, .357 sized cartridges but you cannot use a 45/70 because it is too long of a cartridge, even though it is straight wall. Love the podcast, keep up the great content
If Ruger was involved in creating the 450 Bushmaster then why didn't they call it the 450 Ruger just think about it and you'll find the answer oh and Randy had nothing to do with it
@Lukas zzstu Sikorski Randy working with Ruger to create a .450BM bolt action rifle is completely different from Randy working with Ruger to create the .450BM cartridge. That's what I was pointing out. Infact it was Tim LeGender who was behind it's creation. He licensed his cartridge to Bushmaster and they worked with Hornady to modify it slightly giving us the .450BM that we know today.
The other why when it comes to .450 bushmaster vs .45-70 is the case length requirement in southern Michigan. That brings us to .360 buckhammer, which has a case length that exactly matches that case length.
Here in Iowa we can now use the 35 whelen with our straight walls. 350 is great but if you want the extra range potential 450/35 whelen is the way to go. I have a Browning 12g A-bolt too. Did we just become friends?!?!
I hunt in the shotgun zone in MN and the distance is one factor. I'm more worried about party hunting or road hunters with rifles. I've had multiple people get out of their truck on the gravel road, gun in hand trying to get closer to a deer that I'm going to let walk, while I'm sitting in my deer stand. I'm not opposed to opening the slug zone to straight wall, but those are my concerns.
Love my 450 beast !!!!
Its always been my understanding that the main driving element in bottle neck cartridge design was because of the advent of smokeless powder. and the straight wall cartridge states was because of the low velocity its maximum range was really limited versus many bottle necked cartridges that are high velocity that will travel 2 to 3 times the distance before smacking the ground
I bought a ruger 350 legend….and tried like hell to get the vortex 350 scope….but everytime i got a text or email that it was back in stock….its was gone again. I put a vortex crossfire 2 1-4x24mm on it…..worked just fine after sighting it in. Love the illuminated red dot……but if the 350 scope ever comes back in stock I will def grab one.
Heck yeah - that's awesome!👊
I've seen hoopla on forums about states that spec a 357min, that the 350 legend doesn't meet the requirement as it's a 355. I'm not sure if it's actually upheld or just overlooked I've never bumped into an actual case involving it.
Look at SAAMI, its .357 -0.002". So, its from .355 to .357 pills in Legend.