Sucks, but this is why companies don't post their stuff for free to anyone. When you give it away free, you know that others can profit from it and/or potentially do damage to the reputation. Why you gave away everything instead of licensing (even at low cost) while expecting to continue is beyond me
I waited until Maslow looked like it was ready for production. And invested my money into your maslow 4. Because I believe it now is ready to hold to tighter tolerances and be a more producible product. No worries about what the other guys maker made are doing. We stand behind you.
Yeah.... let's hope that this doesn't wind up the same as Bar's two previous Kickstarter projects, Makesmith CNC and Maslow CNC v1, both of which had a lot of problems. Luckily, right after Bar decided to give up on the Maslow 1 (by no longer sell kits/replacement parts or fix the problematic software) sellers emerged from the Maslow community to save the project, and for the past five years they worked hard to support and supply kits with upgraded parts Hopefully, this Maslow version will not be plagued by hardware or software issues like the last one he released and the sellers had to fix.
Got my Maslow4 stickers in the mail yesterday! Although I have moved on to a faster CNC the OG Maslow holds a special place in my heart. I'll be watching the development of the new model with interest.
When I saw the new kickstarter I was excited. I did a bit bit of googling around and got confused by maker made and their marketing. I decided that Maslow must have licensed something to them sometime but that they were different or that maker made was a branch of Maslow that was trying to sell the same or outdated product at a higher price. After I was sure I was supporting the same person that did the original Maslow kickstarter, I bought in. I’m glad I did. I really hope you get the trademark thing sorted out. Otherwise, this thing is going to turn out like xerox, where everybody just used the brand name instead of saying copy. Eg, “I’m going to xerox this”, instead of “I’m going to copy this.” I find it really odd that maker made wants to even mention anything to do with Maslow, unless maker made thinks that will somehow sell product. Which seems wrong to me. I would suggest that Maslow pick a color and trademark that as well. You can do that as a way to differentiate a product. The real Maslow can be the lime green Maslow. Or whatever color you want. In the long run, I hope Maslow and maker made can come to an agreement that makes their trademarks different and then this video could be pulled down.
I’m hoping for the same. We have tried to differentiate our products and I know how people can be confused. We have the same situation whereby people confuse us for Maslow and the Maslow 4. But we don’t go shit on Maslow - we directed them to the Kickstarter and the website and forums. Maslow CNC was (how it was told to me) a project and community. It was never a business until recently. MakerMade has had their trademarks secured for many years. Bar cannot point me to a trademark he owns that we are violating. Probably because his company is only 4 months old. I hope for a quick and amicable resolution - but making this public is not cool.
"Bar cannot point me to a trademark he owns that we are violating. " I see what you did there. By framing your statement as "pointable", you seem to suggest un-registered trademarks are not owned. The First Use rule has a very long precedent and that first use was WAY before MakerMade even existed. If you came here to push back, you blew it with your quip on trademark. Bar comes across as trying to see the BEST in people, while your shitting comment and "pointable" remark is rather self-outing.
This whole thing sounds like it sucks to deal with. I’m excited by the machine and hope this doesn’t distract too much from the joys of creating it and getting things out into the world. I appreciated how you told how it is from your position, graciously giving all parties the benefit of the doubt and not implying any ill motives. It shows real character.
Wow - very cool, I remember this project from 6yrs ago. LOVE v4, I can't wait to see where you take this. I now have a 48x144 Avid CNC but it took me years to be able to afford it - this is a total game changer for makers who want to get into large format CNC fabrication. I see your "local" to Seattle area, I'm in North Bend, let's connect.
The Avid CNC is an awesome machine. I actually used to work out of the same building as them back in the day and they are great guys. If we have an open house would you be interested in coming?
Thanks! I'm glad to hear that you would come for the open house, I'm a little worried that maybe nobody will show up because most of our community is spread out all over the world
I’m sorry for your troubles, I’m really glad you made this video. I am really considering finally picking up a Maslow CNC. I had no idea maker made was a separate company. I will patiently wait until you are selling the 4
Maslow CNC LLC appears to be a new company formed this year. While Bar has done other kickstarters and open source projects in the past, Maker Made has been around for 5 years. If you want the new Maslow4 CNC kit, I suggest waiting and making sure you sign up for their mailing list.
Well that sucks. I have an M2 I just started using. In trying to trouble shoot I found Maslow4 and thought damn that answers a lot of design questions. Ill cut my teeth on the M2 but the 4 looks cool.
When you have to explain the MM mess to the community via stick figures on a whiteboard, you know the situation is circling the drain. Excellent job on the clarification Bar.
Except the 7 minute rant was extremely factually incorrect and feeling the need to take this to a public forum steeps to a new low for Maslow. IDK why people still do these things - we're not 2 year olds! 🤣
@@makermadellc Bar's video is factual and specific. You could travel the same high road he takes, and raise specific counterpoints. Instead you just handwave "wrong!" and slink away. like a 2 year old actually.
I would take advantage of the situation by testing the M4 on the Makermade table. I intend to use the M4 that way as I don't have a lot of room in my shop and will need it to work (hopefully) in the near vertical position.
I can 100% say the Maslow4 will be at leasrt twice as fast as our version of the M2. It's a completely redesigned machine - there's probably no need for them to do this - we can say ourselves it will be faster and better!
@@stephanematisbut you need a trademark to begin with to claim infringement. Not to mention the names Maslow CNC and Maslow logos have been in the open source community for years under the how the project was published.
Can you fix the audio for next time its just on one channel had flip my phone twice. Awesome to see you going again I build my own CNC between discovering you and the new updates. But thats an more affordable option for maker's every wher wish you all the success and I will keep following you ❤
Yes, absolutely. I know exactly what that is...my lav mike mixes to just one channel. I actually though I had fixed that, but I should have double checked. Thanks for the reminder!
Make a big splash about a new trademark, and otherwise try to forget about them. Don’t sue. In addition to the hassle and expense, you won’t win. They’re in China. You have an uphill battle in any foreign country, but China is particularly bad.
Agree they won't win becuase it's all in the public domain. Maker Made is not in China and Mr. Weber's other companies do not operate like other "Chinese companies". Maker Made is exploring it's legal options due to the damning remarks being made about us.
@@bwake Yes and no - there is one older design mark that was owned by a company that Bar and Hannah voluntarily dissolved five years ago. Bar is now claiming that trademark of the dissolved company. The logos and design files can still be found in various Github repositories as "open source" licenses. Recently, the new company "Maslow CNC LLC" had only filed a trademark of "Maslow CNC" in October 2023 - but that mark is not registered - it is only filed. We're trying to sell through our MakerMade Maslow CNC kits that we've been calling Maslow CNC kits since the very beginning when I was the supplier in China. Back then, there was not a "Maslow CNC" trademark filed.
@makermadellc Hi, software developer here. Open source licenses are NOT the same as public domain. I assume you haven't spoken to legal yet. They usually advise against internet comments.
Ouch, I bought a Maslow and thought I could buy parts for it (and I spent $500) through Maker Made. Soooo…you are saying there is no mixing of the two? Yikes!
Which Maslow did you buy and when? MakerMade sells a copy of the original Maslow design so their parts should work on Maslow machines bought prior to 2018. I wish that they would stop using our name so that people wouldn't be confused.
@@maslowcnc I am flattered to get your reply. Thank you. I bought this kit unopened from a surfboard crafter that had never used it. I can’t tell for sure the it’s age. Are there any identifying things to look for in 2018 and younger vs 2018 and older?
@@upstatecre8 Well I'd like to be able to say does it say Maslow on it, but MakerMade keeps putting my logo on their products 😂. Did it come with a piece of paper with a link to the assembly instructions?
Either way, the spare parts that you can get from MakerMade should work with that machine. The next generation of Maslow is quite a bit different, but we haven't started shipping them yet so if you have the machine it will be the style that MakerMade sells (my old design)
@@maslowcnc I am certainly excited to see what you guys are doing with this next version. I’m also eager to see what price you might place on the new Maslow. Thanks for doing what you do in this space.
So does the Maslow 4 run horizontally too? Thanks for the clarification on the company stuff. Makes a few things clearer. After saving up I bought an M2 from makermade with all the accessories, and its been my biggest nightmare ever. It turned my excitement for cnc into resentment. Update, calibrate, calibrate, calibrate, cut 1, can't repeat, calibrate, update, calibrate.....it just never stops. after 6 months of head aches, I give it a couple hours week to try and make it work, but it doesn't. The laser is still new in the box, hasnt been reliable enough to even bother putting it on.
Wild. I bought the maker made cnc after having the original Maslow thinking it was the next in line of the products development. I’ve had nothing but issues with it so far.
I'll try to give a couple weeks heads up so maybe sometime in late November or early December? Maybe we can do a poll in the forums to pick the time that works the best for everyone.
I just read through the comments and can't believe how unprofessional the maker made employees were in their comments here. I don't know enough to know if they have a valid argument or not (regarding their usage of the name), but the way they've turned the comment section into a mini public smear campaign feels pretty wrong. In any case, best of luck to you with the M4. I'm not a backer but am interested in seeing how it progresses!
Thanks. At the end of the day the goal is to make the best thing that we can make and everything else is a distraction. I'm not taking any of their comments personally :p
Dude you tried to do a good thing, you tried to be helpful, I hope this doesn't stop you from being a decent person. You have the support from a lot of people
Yes, we are currently sold out so we can focus 100% of our energy on supporting out Kickstarter backers. If you join the wait list we will send you an email with a link as soon as we are ready to start taking orders again
I'm gonna be honest, for 5 years I've felt this confusion in the background. Makermade vs Maslow. Definitely recommend you brand the crap out of maslow when you gain some cashflow.
Not sure what this fuss is about, for me maslow is the name for this style of cnc machine. I have a MakerMade machine and I think there are some additions to the original design and software that add value for me, plus it was available and could be set up without tinkering. It has always been clear to me that Makermade is a separate company. I would suggest to focus on making Maslow 4 a success so I can retire the MakeMade. I hope that the experience is similar to the MakerMade kit with the added value of doubling cutting speeds, improved preision and the possibility to cut on flat surfaces :D.
From an open source licensing perspective, it is my understanding that we need to cite the original sources and creators. People do search for Maslow CNC, we will come up on results. In fact, Make Magazine published an article about MakerMade and Maslow together when MakerMade was selling the Maslow kits.
You're too understanding and kind. Chinese companies are known for copyright and trademark infringement. You need to stop being kind and go on the offensive with these bad business people.
For clarification, Maker Made is NOT a Chinese company and the Chinese companies that Mr. Weber controls are NOT run like traditional "Chinese" companies inferred in your comment. There is not any copyright or trademark infringement here because there is no copyright and trademark. Maslow CNC is still under open source license, including name, logo, images, source code. For open source projects, Maker Made is required under the open source license to reference the project. Mr. Weber has ben in communication with Bar, but it appears Bar wants to take it public and Maker Made will just take it to court if this video stays up. @maslowcnc
Hey folks, TJ Weber here with Maker Made. As was stated, Maker Made LLC and Maslow CNC are entirely separate companies unaffiliated with each other. Unfortunately, I feel the need to address this video as there are inconsistencies and factually incorrect information Bar felt the need to make very public. Bar, we are not 2-years old anymore - this could have been handled differently. Unfortunately, as an adult, defamatory statements are just bound to make things worse - especially when made in public. As I said in my last correspondence with you - my attorney was looking into everything around the trademarks (ours, yours and those in the public domain). I asked for two simple things (1) Your trademark numbers, and (2) The correspondence you had with the previous owners. I sent that email a week ago and again on Monday - I have not received a response yet. I am not going to spill out every factually incorrect detail and defamatory remark made in that video - I'm simply going to ask Bar to remove the video - or at least the first 7 minutes of it. He could have clearly got his point across simply by stating the same. Instead, you had to rant on things we could have quickly resolved through cordial communication. Because you decided to ignore my last two emails and felt you had to take public your accusations on Kickstarter and TH-cam. I would expect there would be consequences should something ever end up in litigation. A public forum is not a place for that. Some brief factual information: Maker Made LLC was formed in August 2018 by two gentlemen in Arkansas to continue the Maslow project that Bar had "open-sourced". Although it was spun to me in September 2018 when I was "recruited" that the person behind Maslow CNC essentially "gave up and threw in the towel", I later learned after taking on the project it was Bar, Hannah, and a few other people behind the prior Maslow Kickstarters. I am based out of Shenzhen, China - where Maker Made does most of its production - and commute between the Dallas-Ft Worth area and HK/Shenzehn. Sourcery Limited (my Shenzhen and HK entities) is the company Maker Made LLC owes quite a bit of money to - primarily debt taken on by the previous CEO of Maker Made. Recently, Sourcery acquired most of the assets of Maker Made, and it is being developed differently - with the same mission in mind of bringing low-cost products to the Maker community. So the "stick men" on the whiteboard referred to in Bar's video are not factual representations of anything close to the real situation. Maslow CNC, as I understand it, was an open-sourced "project" - if you would call it that. It was only recently incorporated this past July 2023 (4 months ago), in Washington state, as "Maslow CNC LLC". While there were likely other entities that predated this formation - it was well noted in many forum posts that Maslow CNC was a "new company" and they had to "establish bank accounts" for an upcoming "Kickstarter" launch and other things necessary in these updates like "accounting issues" needed in the formation of the business. I am not well-versed in Trademark Law, or how licensing software works, or any of these issues so I asked our company attorney to look into how these issues impact Maker Made. I have not received a response from Bar on the questions I have asked. Maker Made has over a 5-year reputation and is aligned to do many great things. Over these years, all those who purchased Maker Made kits and our Maslow kits have helped support and build the entire Maslow CNC community. The campaign was extremely successful due to active members in the community and helped Bar achieve where Bar is at today. Maker Made has always been thrilled to support this project - we invited our community to support this project - and help build the next generation of Maslow4. While it somewhat flatters me that Maker Made is getting a little attention in the video, it really shows the character of the person and the company posting it does not appreciate what Maker Made has done for the Maslow community in the past five years. It's not a cool way to handle things. I will not review all the other misleading, defamatory, and incorrect information stated in Bar's video. I am asking that it be deleted before legal action needs to be taken. If anyone has any questions or comments, I can be reached by email on the Maker Made website. Thanks, --t.j. weber
Please just leave us alone. MakerMade is welcome to make and sell any products you want, just don't sell them in a way that makes people think they came from us.
We have been supoporting your community the whole time - promoting your website, forums and even your Kickstarter! I was with my team trying to work with you on how we can resolve these issues but it comes to this and now seriously considering getting our attorney further involved because of the disparaging and incorrect comments. @@maslowcnc
*THANK YOU* @@maslowcnc @makermadellc Thanks for your patience. Tensions are high and unnecessarily high. I deeply appreciate this video even if there may or may not be factually questionable statements. I don't think there was *EVER* meant to be any confusion between the two brands. Yet, I was personally confused and I thought Makermade was Maslow CNC. This makes sense. Maslow CNC is such a new company(EDIT: there is important nuance here as to what is considered the beginning of Maslow). I'm glad you're being patient with our dear engineer. He means so much goodness, but sometimes us nerds get confused and go down a holy crusade at the wrong thing/person. Had it not been for this video, I would have been under the assumption that Makermade and Maslow CNC are the same thing. *THE CN CONCERN IS REAL* I've ran a hackerspace for 13 years. I've personally seen a bit of IP and brand theft in China in solar generators, automotive, and wheelchairs. It is a depressing reality that 山寨 is prevalent and extoled both within their culture and their government. Yet this is not too distant from the "Warez" days of the 90s in the USA. The accusations of brand theft are likely untrue. However, a quick search on Amazon shows a slew of probable knockoffs. I suspect these are knockoffs of the upstanding Makermade brand. After this video, I thought I was supporting some predatory untouchably-foreign company with less than our best interest at heart. I regretted my decision to purchase an M2 and its accessories until this comment from T.J. set me straight. I think you're both equally good people and companies. *PLEASE GET ALONG* Many know the path of RepRap -> Prusa -> MakerBot -> Chinese knockoffs. The knock offs often deliver the final product in its cheapest form and this can hurt the overall public support for the technology. Many people have given up on 3D printing after the struggles of using a cheap knockoff. It seems Bar has some concern with this. Just because Maslow CNC is recently incorporated, doesn't mean that it hasn't been producing and active in the community. Just because Makermade used the plans and name you gave them, doesn't make them bad. Honestly, it looks like a misunderstanding to use "MASLOW" so prominently and one that can be easily fixed. Probably without public involvement. The public is stupid. It whips into a frenzy way faster than it can be smoothed out. Remake this video, now that you have more insight. I've seen a bit of kerfuffle between dumb nerds and dumb businessmen at the hackerspace. I've coordinated business nerds and computer nerds for a long time. Let me know if you want to smooth things over. I will mediate 5 hours/wk for free and at my own travel expense(within the USA) for a year or until this is resolved. My username is Saintmeh. You can find me on G mail, hackerspaces.org, or a quick google. I will send a message off to both of you to try to get a video call. If you're interested in mediation, I would like to write your stories. I will need at least two days before our video call for preparation. EDIT: After further research into this problem, I'm afraid I will do more harm than good as a mediator. Your lawyers can sort this out, but It's better to have a friend in each other than an enemy. ~Jonny Santy
@@SaintSaint Thanks for your interest. Maslow is very much not a new company, we have been operating under the trademarked name Maslow since 2016 and made that clear to Maker Made when they began. They are intentionally confusing people because it helps them sell their out of date inventory
lol, right!? Every week getting a hair cut is on my todo list and every week something higher priority comes up…one of my friends said I look like Justin Bieber in 2012 😂
Bar, you don't seem to understand exactly how business works or asset transfers when one company buys out another company (aka merger). So here's how it works: Company A: Makes Product NameA, NameB, and NameC Company B: Buys Company A Company B now controls products named NameA, NameB and NameC. Company B now has the legal right to do whatever they choose with those three acquired product assets. Usually what happens when a a company does this to a competing company, one of the products gets killed off. You let others use the Maslow name for 5 or so years, you knew about it and said nothing. Which is fine. I guess the founders of MakerMade were young and hip enough to be allowed into the "Maker Cult" so to speak. Ironically, i know all of the people involved and you are just coming off as seemingly butthurt because they took something you opensourced, gave you credit for designing, and now that they're business models are successful you want a piece of the pie. It's really something you should have thought about before you agreed to let a registered company use your trademark. I've seen 6 year olds build lego things together acting the same way. As far as the Maslow 4 machine, while a significantly better Machine that the Maslow 2 (and variants) it still has a lot of design faults that make it already halfway to being obsolete. In the past MakerMade outsourced a lot of it's software development, they're now developing things in-house and have fixed the Login Issue of the Makerverse control software. That's a software bug that was fixed over 3 months ago. Since you consider MakerMade your competition, try to stay relevant and up to date on what your competition is doing. I have a few really good books on time-management if you're having difficulties. Going back to Trademarks and all that good stuff again, from what i can tell MakerMade customers don't even use the word "maslow cnc", it's called an M2 or now M4 and M5. The M4 is your Maslow 4 machine with about 10-15 improvements to the design (from what i've seen) . From what i've heard the M5 is the next generation iteration which has been completely redesigned and physically more stable. I know the MakerMade people quite well, and i help them with engineering consultation when needed. I think if you push the issue too hard they'll just dump a ton of money into the M5 product and make the Maslow 4 machine that you're making obsolete within 4-6 months. I'm pretty sure they will patent several things in the M5 machine - i certainly would if i had a competitor for sure. MakerMade could have been an ally for you, instead you took things personally and made them an enemy. Considering that they're already setup to do business and manufacturing on the Chinese side and you're just getting your feet wet in that area they certainly are three steps ahead of wherever you're at in the manufacture of the Maslow 4 units that you're shipping to your backers.
I knew that MM bunch was kinda sketchy, but didn’t realize what they were doing. Sucks that that happened to them, but kinda deserve it when they didn’t make any original products! Keep up your updates!
We have the M2, 3D printer and now our new cnc500. We can keep our costs low because things are open source and those are the products we intend to develop. Hopefully with this new ownership you will not have that feeling anymore.
@@mcavity There is a comment in this video and on the Kickstarter. I'm not doing to dip to a new low. The accusations are baseless and I've requested nicely to have the video deleted since the accusations are flat out incorrect and wrong.
@@makermadellc Im sure a statement saying that you understand Maker Made and Maslow cnc are separate entities would go far toward helping correct any misunderstandings =). It seems hes mostly just worried about people understating that they are 2 different companies.
@@mcavity That statement was in the second sentence of my response after I introduced myself. It's in the comment section of the video and also Kickstarter update. I was very clear that Maker Made LLC and Maslow CNC are different companies. We have set ourselves apart with our products while crediting the original project and people behind that project. Maslow CNC was not a company up until July 2023 - it was a domain name run by Bar for his open source project. That is what makes this video so surprising is the last 5 years we had been building the community and even supporting their Kickstarter campaign.
Bro! You bailed on the Maslow community 4 years ago and allowed MakerMade to continue the product. Now you decided to come back and act like Makermade is stealing your shit. Forget all the work Makermade did to continue development and keep the community alive. But that's fine, I'm sure you'll bail on the community again as soon as you have enough money to get back to your travels.
I didn't bail, I've been working to improve the design and answering questions in the forums every day since. I just stopped selling the kits because I thought we could do better. I'm happy to let MakerMade run their business however they would like to, I just don't want them pretending to be Maslow. If they can make a better CNC, that's awesome.
usually when a product isn't updated in over a year it's considered a dead project. On github, in terms of "software years", if there isn't a code commit in 6 months the project is considered abandoned or severely depreciated@@maslowcnc
Sucks, but this is why companies don't post their stuff for free to anyone. When you give it away free, you know that others can profit from it and/or potentially do damage to the reputation.
Why you gave away everything instead of licensing (even at low cost) while expecting to continue is beyond me
I waited until Maslow looked like it was ready for production. And invested my money into your maslow 4. Because I believe it now is ready to hold to tighter tolerances and be a more producible product. No worries about what the other guys maker made are doing. We stand behind you.
Thank you for support us!
Yeah.... let's hope that this doesn't wind up the same as Bar's two previous Kickstarter projects, Makesmith CNC and Maslow CNC v1, both of which had a lot of problems.
Luckily, right after Bar decided to give up on the Maslow 1 (by no longer sell kits/replacement parts or fix the problematic software) sellers emerged from the Maslow community to save the project, and for the past five years they worked hard to support and supply kits with upgraded parts
Hopefully, this Maslow version will not be plagued by hardware or software issues like the last one he released and the sellers had to fix.
Sounds like a pain in the behind. I appreciate all your work. My Maslow sits happily in my garage here in Christchurch New Zealand.
I am very impressed with your ability to assume the best about people.
Agreed. It's powerful
@@johnagorman powerful or naive?
@@driedprinterke6988 I'm going with powerful
Got my Maslow4 stickers in the mail yesterday! Although I have moved on to a faster CNC the OG Maslow holds a special place in my heart. I'll be watching the development of the new model with interest.
No good deed goes unpunished! :) So looking forward to the next version of Maslow!
Bar, you are tooooo nice. never change though, the world needs more like you.
Thanks! At the end of the day I get to work on something I love every day and build things so it’s not that bad 😃
When I saw the new kickstarter I was excited. I did a bit bit of googling around and got confused by maker made and their marketing. I decided that Maslow must have licensed something to them sometime but that they were different or that maker made was a branch of Maslow that was trying to sell the same or outdated product at a higher price. After I was sure I was supporting the same person that did the original Maslow kickstarter, I bought in. I’m glad I did. I really hope you get the trademark thing sorted out. Otherwise, this thing is going to turn out like xerox, where everybody just used the brand name instead of saying copy. Eg, “I’m going to xerox this”, instead of “I’m going to copy this.” I find it really odd that maker made wants to even mention anything to do with Maslow, unless maker made thinks that will somehow sell product. Which seems wrong to me. I would suggest that Maslow pick a color and trademark that as well. You can do that as a way to differentiate a product. The real Maslow can be the lime green Maslow. Or whatever color you want. In the long run, I hope Maslow and maker made can come to an agreement that makes their trademarks different and then this video could be pulled down.
I’m hoping for the same. We have tried to differentiate our products and I know how people can be confused. We have the same situation whereby people confuse us for Maslow and the Maslow 4. But we don’t go shit on Maslow - we directed them to the Kickstarter and the website and forums.
Maslow CNC was (how it was told to me) a project and community. It was never a business until recently.
MakerMade has had their trademarks secured for many years. Bar cannot point me to a trademark he owns that we are violating. Probably because his company is only 4 months old.
I hope for a quick and amicable resolution - but making this public is not cool.
"Bar cannot point me to a trademark he owns that we are violating. "
I see what you did there. By framing your statement as "pointable", you seem to suggest un-registered trademarks are not owned. The First Use rule has a very long precedent and that first use was WAY before MakerMade even existed.
If you came here to push back, you blew it with your quip on trademark. Bar comes across as trying to see the BEST in people, while your shitting comment and "pointable" remark is rather self-outing.
This whole thing sounds like it sucks to deal with. I’m excited by the machine and hope this doesn’t distract too much from the joys of creating it and getting things out into the world.
I appreciated how you told how it is from your position, graciously giving all parties the benefit of the doubt and not implying any ill motives. It shows real character.
Thank you. I have the best job in the world and this isn’t going to change that
This clears it all up thanks!
Wow - very cool, I remember this project from 6yrs ago. LOVE v4, I can't wait to see where you take this. I now have a 48x144 Avid CNC but it took me years to be able to afford it - this is a total game changer for makers who want to get into large format CNC fabrication. I see your "local" to Seattle area, I'm in North Bend, let's connect.
The Avid CNC is an awesome machine. I actually used to work out of the same building as them back in the day and they are great guys. If we have an open house would you be interested in coming?
Small world, I've know Ahren for a long time - great guy. Yes, I'd definitely come to an open house if I'm able to! 🙂@@maslowcnc
Congrats on getting into the new space! The table looks great, and I will absolutely swing by for the open house! Keep up the good work. 🎉
Thanks! I'm glad to hear that you would come for the open house, I'm a little worried that maybe nobody will show up because most of our community is spread out all over the world
Count me in for the open house as well!
We're a backer - I'd come for the open house too!
I’m sorry for your troubles, I’m really glad you made this video. I am really considering finally picking up a Maslow CNC. I had no idea maker made was a separate company. I will patiently wait until you are selling the 4
Thanks! The Maslow4 well worth the wait, it is light years ahead of where the old designs are
A more appropriate video could have been made without disparaging the company.
@@tjweber Pft I thought he was a bit generous, TBH.
Maslow CNC LLC appears to be a new company formed this year. While Bar has done other kickstarters and open source projects in the past, Maker Made has been around for 5 years. If you want the new Maslow4 CNC kit, I suggest waiting and making sure you sign up for their mailing list.
@@makermadellc looks like your channel was put up 40 minutes ago?
Well that sucks. I have an M2 I just started using. In trying to trouble shoot I found Maslow4 and thought damn that answers a lot of design questions. Ill cut my teeth on the M2 but the 4 looks cool.
When you have to explain the MM mess to the community via stick figures on a whiteboard, you know the situation is circling the drain. Excellent job on the clarification Bar.
Except the 7 minute rant was extremely factually incorrect and feeling the need to take this to a public forum steeps to a new low for Maslow. IDK why people still do these things - we're not 2 year olds! 🤣
he came across as a whining liberal imo@@monroejosh
@@makermadellc Bar's video is factual and specific. You could travel the same high road he takes, and raise specific counterpoints. Instead you just handwave "wrong!" and slink away. like a 2 year old actually.
I would take advantage of the situation by testing the M4 on the Makermade table. I intend to use the M4 that way as I don't have a lot of room in my shop and will need it to work (hopefully) in the near vertical position.
I can 100% say the Maslow4 will be at leasrt twice as fast as our version of the M2. It's a completely redesigned machine - there's probably no need for them to do this - we can say ourselves it will be faster and better!
thanks for clearing it up I hope its posted on your site
All the best with the Trademark mess. I very much love that table.
Thanks!
There is not a “trademark mess” when he cannot provide the trademarks he owns to Maker Made.
@@tjweberI would say that there was Trademark Dilution since the name wasn't actively being defended ?
@@stephanematisbut you need a trademark to begin with to claim infringement. Not to mention the names Maslow CNC and Maslow logos have been in the open source community for years under the how the project was published.
good points @@tjweber
Can you fix the audio for next time its just on one channel had flip my phone twice.
Awesome to see you going again I build my own CNC between discovering you and the new updates. But thats an more affordable option for maker's every wher wish you all the success and I will keep following you ❤
Yes, absolutely. I know exactly what that is...my lav mike mixes to just one channel. I actually though I had fixed that, but I should have double checked. Thanks for the reminder!
It was hard enough for me hearing in one hearing aid - I’m glad they have closed captioning.
Make a big splash about a new trademark, and otherwise try to forget about them.
Don’t sue. In addition to the hassle and expense, you won’t win. They’re in China. You have an uphill battle in any foreign country, but China is particularly bad.
Agree they won't win becuase it's all in the public domain. Maker Made is not in China and Mr. Weber's other companies do not operate like other "Chinese companies". Maker Made is exploring it's legal options due to the damning remarks being made about us.
@@makermadellc If I understand correctly, the problem is with the use of the Maslow trademark.
@@bwake Yes and no - there is one older design mark that was owned by a company that Bar and Hannah voluntarily dissolved five years ago. Bar is now claiming that trademark of the dissolved company. The logos and design files can still be found in various Github repositories as "open source" licenses. Recently, the new company "Maslow CNC LLC" had only filed a trademark of "Maslow CNC" in October 2023 - but that mark is not registered - it is only filed.
We're trying to sell through our MakerMade Maslow CNC kits that we've been calling Maslow CNC kits since the very beginning when I was the supplier in China. Back then, there was not a "Maslow CNC" trademark filed.
@makermadellc Hi, software developer here. Open source licenses are NOT the same as public domain. I assume you haven't spoken to legal yet. They usually advise against internet comments.
Wow. That's wild. Lol
What’s wild is being so desperate to post incorrect information on a public forum 😂
Ouch, I bought a Maslow and thought I could buy parts for it (and I spent $500) through Maker Made. Soooo…you are saying there is no mixing of the two? Yikes!
Which Maslow did you buy and when? MakerMade sells a copy of the original Maslow design so their parts should work on Maslow machines bought prior to 2018. I wish that they would stop using our name so that people wouldn't be confused.
@@maslowcnc I am flattered to get your reply. Thank you. I bought this kit unopened from a surfboard crafter that had never used it. I can’t tell for sure the it’s age. Are there any identifying things to look for in 2018 and younger vs 2018 and older?
@@upstatecre8 Well I'd like to be able to say does it say Maslow on it, but MakerMade keeps putting my logo on their products 😂. Did it come with a piece of paper with a link to the assembly instructions?
Either way, the spare parts that you can get from MakerMade should work with that machine. The next generation of Maslow is quite a bit different, but we haven't started shipping them yet so if you have the machine it will be the style that MakerMade sells (my old design)
@@maslowcnc I am certainly excited to see what you guys are doing with this next version. I’m also eager to see what price you might place on the new Maslow. Thanks for doing what you do in this space.
So does the Maslow 4 run horizontally too? Thanks for the clarification on the company stuff. Makes a few things clearer. After saving up I bought an M2 from makermade with all the accessories, and its been my biggest nightmare ever. It turned my excitement for cnc into resentment.
Update, calibrate, calibrate, calibrate, cut 1, can't repeat, calibrate, update, calibrate.....it just never stops. after 6 months of head aches, I give it a couple hours week to try and make it work, but it doesn't. The laser is still new in the box, hasnt been reliable enough to even bother putting it on.
8:48 the router looks like Whinny the Pooh’s head at that angle.
Share the table design and STLs with kickstarter supporters?
Absolutely. I'm working on a site for sharing designs. It's still a ways away from being ready, but we will have lots of cool projects.
Just got mine!!!!!🙂
Wild. I bought the maker made cnc after having the original Maslow thinking it was the next in line of the products development. I’ve had nothing but issues with it so far.
😮 Wow, quite the cluster ... Sounds frustrating. Good luck navigating past this phase.
Thanks! At the end of the day our goal is to build cool things and this doesn't prevent us from doing that, it's just annoying.
Same for Maker Made - build cool things. Disparaging another company in public is not a cool thing. @@maslowcnc
When might this open house be? I'm in southern California, but two of my best friends live in Lake Stevens, so...
I'll try to give a couple weeks heads up so maybe sometime in late November or early December? Maybe we can do a poll in the forums to pick the time that works the best for everyone.
I can not find any videos of maker made of people actually using the maker made I was interested in buying it but now I want your product
I'm glad to hear it :D We're working to start accepting new orders soon
I just read through the comments and can't believe how unprofessional the maker made employees were in their comments here.
I don't know enough to know if they have a valid argument or not (regarding their usage of the name), but the way they've turned the comment section into a mini public smear campaign feels pretty wrong.
In any case, best of luck to you with the M4. I'm not a backer but am interested in seeing how it progresses!
Thanks. At the end of the day the goal is to make the best thing that we can make and everything else is a distraction. I'm not taking any of their comments personally :p
So where do I buy this maslow machine???
We're currently sold out, but you can join the wait list at www.MaslowCNC.com
Dude you tried to do a good thing, you tried to be helpful, I hope this doesn't stop you from being a decent person. You have the support from a lot of people
+1 thanks for the update, sorry it's been such a ride.
That's alright, it's been 99.9% positive! I am stoked that I get to work on this project every day.
I hope you have a good attorney! You can't just wait for their attorney to get back to you.
Is the backing period finished? I went to the kickstarter page and couldn't buy a maslow4?
Do i just sign up to the mailing list and wait?
Yes, we are currently sold out so we can focus 100% of our energy on supporting out Kickstarter backers. If you join the wait list we will send you an email with a link as soon as we are ready to start taking orders again
Ooooooooh. so this is why I got such dirty looks when I mentioned the bricks at Open Sauce last year... My bad!
I'm gonna be honest, for 5 years I've felt this confusion in the background. Makermade vs Maslow. Definitely recommend you brand the crap out of maslow when you gain some cashflow.
It's not an accident, they want to capitalize on the good vibes without actually making anything open source or giving back
I bought the Maslow from you. The only thing I got from maker made was the faster Z axis.
Maker Made had always supported the Maslow community. Never once did we find a need to write inflammatory remarks in an open forum.
is it on sale already? or when will it be? also will it be capable of handling a laser module?
It is! You can order one now at MaslowCNC.com. It does have an AUX port which can control a laser
I know exactly how you feel
Hello, can someone share the link for sing up for Maslowcnc? Thanks!!!!
www.maslowcnc.com/newsletter-signup
I should change that to be “wait list” or something more obvious. Thanks for pointing out that it’s not clear.
Damages would include every dollar they make.
The people complaining missed out on the kickstarter.
And when Maker Made’s customer service gets inquiries we direct them to the Maslow forums. It’s such a pity seeing this.
Not sure what this fuss is about, for me maslow is the name for this style of cnc machine. I have a MakerMade machine and I think there are some additions to the original design and software that add value for me, plus it was available and could be set up without tinkering. It has always been clear to me that Makermade is a separate company. I would suggest to focus on making Maslow 4 a success so I can retire the MakeMade. I hope that the experience is similar to the MakerMade kit with the added value of doubling cutting speeds, improved preision and the possibility to cut on flat surfaces :D.
From an open source licensing perspective, it is my understanding that we need to cite the original sources and creators. People do search for Maslow CNC, we will come up on results. In fact, Make Magazine published an article about MakerMade and Maslow together when MakerMade was selling the Maslow kits.
You're too understanding and kind. Chinese companies are known for copyright and trademark infringement. You need to stop being kind and go on the offensive with these bad business people.
For clarification, Maker Made is NOT a Chinese company and the Chinese companies that Mr. Weber controls are NOT run like traditional "Chinese" companies inferred in your comment. There is not any copyright or trademark infringement here because there is no copyright and trademark. Maslow CNC is still under open source license, including name, logo, images, source code. For open source projects, Maker Made is required under the open source license to reference the project. Mr. Weber has ben in communication with Bar, but it appears Bar wants to take it public and Maker Made will just take it to court if this video stays up. @maslowcnc
Hey folks, TJ Weber here with Maker Made. As was stated, Maker Made LLC and Maslow CNC are entirely separate companies unaffiliated with each other.
Unfortunately, I feel the need to address this video as there are inconsistencies and factually incorrect information Bar felt the need to make very public. Bar, we are not 2-years old anymore - this could have been handled differently. Unfortunately, as an adult, defamatory statements are just bound to make things worse - especially when made in public. As I said in my last correspondence with you - my attorney was looking into everything around the trademarks (ours, yours and those in the public domain). I asked for two simple things (1) Your trademark numbers, and (2) The correspondence you had with the previous owners. I sent that email a week ago and again on Monday - I have not received a response yet.
I am not going to spill out every factually incorrect detail and defamatory remark made in that video - I'm simply going to ask Bar to remove the video - or at least the first 7 minutes of it. He could have clearly got his point across simply by stating the same. Instead, you had to rant on things we could have quickly resolved through cordial communication. Because you decided to ignore my last two emails and felt you had to take public your accusations on Kickstarter and TH-cam. I would expect there would be consequences should something ever end up in litigation. A public forum is not a place for that.
Some brief factual information:
Maker Made LLC was formed in August 2018 by two gentlemen in Arkansas to continue the Maslow project that Bar had "open-sourced". Although it was spun to me in September 2018 when I was "recruited" that the person behind Maslow CNC essentially "gave up and threw in the towel", I later learned after taking on the project it was Bar, Hannah, and a few other people behind the prior Maslow Kickstarters. I am based out of Shenzhen, China - where Maker Made does most of its production - and commute between the Dallas-Ft Worth area and HK/Shenzehn. Sourcery Limited (my Shenzhen and HK entities) is the company Maker Made LLC owes quite a bit of money to - primarily debt taken on by the previous CEO of Maker Made. Recently, Sourcery acquired most of the assets of Maker Made, and it is being developed differently - with the same mission in mind of bringing low-cost products to the Maker community. So the "stick men" on the whiteboard referred to in Bar's video are not factual representations of anything close to the real situation.
Maslow CNC, as I understand it, was an open-sourced "project" - if you would call it that. It was only recently incorporated this past July 2023 (4 months ago), in Washington state, as "Maslow CNC LLC". While there were likely other entities that predated this formation - it was well noted in many forum posts that Maslow CNC was a "new company" and they had to "establish bank accounts" for an upcoming "Kickstarter" launch and other things necessary in these updates like "accounting issues" needed in the formation of the business. I am not well-versed in Trademark Law, or how licensing software works, or any of these issues so I asked our company attorney to look into how these issues impact Maker Made. I have not received a response from Bar on the questions I have asked.
Maker Made has over a 5-year reputation and is aligned to do many great things. Over these years, all those who purchased Maker Made kits and our Maslow kits have helped support and build the entire Maslow CNC community. The campaign was extremely successful due to active members in the community and helped Bar achieve where Bar is at today. Maker Made has always been thrilled to support this project - we invited our community to support this project - and help build the next generation of Maslow4. While it somewhat flatters me that Maker Made is getting a little attention in the video, it really shows the character of the person and the company posting it does not appreciate what Maker Made has done for the Maslow community in the past five years. It's not a cool way to handle things.
I will not review all the other misleading, defamatory, and incorrect information stated in Bar's video. I am asking that it be deleted before legal action needs to be taken.
If anyone has any questions or comments, I can be reached by email on the Maker Made website.
Thanks,
--t.j. weber
Please just leave us alone. MakerMade is welcome to make and sell any products you want, just don't sell them in a way that makes people think they came from us.
We have been supoporting your community the whole time - promoting your website, forums and even your Kickstarter! I was with my team trying to work with you on how we can resolve these issues but it comes to this and now seriously considering getting our attorney further involved because of the disparaging and incorrect comments. @@maslowcnc
@@maslowcncbut… we haven’t been bothering you… I was diligently trying to work with you.
*THANK YOU*
@@maslowcnc @makermadellc Thanks for your patience. Tensions are high and unnecessarily high. I deeply appreciate this video even if there may or may not be factually questionable statements. I don't think there was *EVER* meant to be any confusion between the two brands. Yet, I was personally confused and I thought Makermade was Maslow CNC. This makes sense. Maslow CNC is such a new company(EDIT: there is important nuance here as to what is considered the beginning of Maslow). I'm glad you're being patient with our dear engineer. He means so much goodness, but sometimes us nerds get confused and go down a holy crusade at the wrong thing/person.
Had it not been for this video, I would have been under the assumption that Makermade and Maslow CNC are the same thing.
*THE CN CONCERN IS REAL*
I've ran a hackerspace for 13 years. I've personally seen a bit of IP and brand theft in China in solar generators, automotive, and wheelchairs. It is a depressing reality that 山寨 is prevalent and extoled both within their culture and their government. Yet this is not too distant from the "Warez" days of the 90s in the USA. The accusations of brand theft are likely untrue. However, a quick search on Amazon shows a slew of probable knockoffs. I suspect these are knockoffs of the upstanding Makermade brand. After this video, I thought I was supporting some predatory untouchably-foreign company with less than our best interest at heart. I regretted my decision to purchase an M2 and its accessories until this comment from T.J. set me straight. I think you're both equally good people and companies.
*PLEASE GET ALONG*
Many know the path of RepRap -> Prusa -> MakerBot -> Chinese knockoffs. The knock offs often deliver the final product in its cheapest form and this can hurt the overall public support for the technology. Many people have given up on 3D printing after the struggles of using a cheap knockoff. It seems Bar has some concern with this. Just because Maslow CNC is recently incorporated, doesn't mean that it hasn't been producing and active in the community. Just because Makermade used the plans and name you gave them, doesn't make them bad. Honestly, it looks like a misunderstanding to use "MASLOW" so prominently and one that can be easily fixed. Probably without public involvement. The public is stupid. It whips into a frenzy way faster than it can be smoothed out. Remake this video, now that you have more insight.
I've seen a bit of kerfuffle between dumb nerds and dumb businessmen at the hackerspace. I've coordinated business nerds and computer nerds for a long time. Let me know if you want to smooth things over. I will mediate 5 hours/wk for free and at my own travel expense(within the USA) for a year or until this is resolved. My username is Saintmeh. You can find me on G mail, hackerspaces.org, or a quick google.
I will send a message off to both of you to try to get a video call. If you're interested in mediation, I would like to write your stories. I will need at least two days before our video call for preparation.
EDIT: After further research into this problem, I'm afraid I will do more harm than good as a mediator. Your lawyers can sort this out, but It's better to have a friend in each other than an enemy.
~Jonny Santy
@@SaintSaint Thanks for your interest. Maslow is very much not a new company, we have been operating under the trademarked name Maslow since 2016 and made that clear to Maker Made when they began. They are intentionally confusing people because it helps them sell their out of date inventory
By the way basing on your hairstyle ,how about EMCnC ? It stands for Emo Mcgee CnC. Better licensed it now or someone will!
lol, right!? Every week getting a hair cut is on my todo list and every week something higher priority comes up…one of my friends said I look like Justin Bieber in 2012 😂
Bar, you don't seem to understand exactly how business works or asset transfers when one company buys out another company (aka merger).
So here's how it works:
Company A: Makes Product NameA, NameB, and NameC
Company B: Buys Company A
Company B now controls products named NameA, NameB and NameC. Company B now has the legal right to do whatever they choose with those three acquired product assets.
Usually what happens when a a company does this to a competing company, one of the products gets killed off. You let others use the Maslow name for 5 or so years, you knew about it and said nothing. Which is fine. I guess the founders of MakerMade were young and hip enough to be allowed into the "Maker Cult" so to speak. Ironically, i know all of the people involved and you are just coming off as seemingly butthurt because they took something you opensourced, gave you credit for designing, and now that they're business models are successful you want a piece of the pie. It's really something you should have thought about before you agreed to let a registered company use your trademark. I've seen 6 year olds build lego things together acting the same way.
As far as the Maslow 4 machine, while a significantly better Machine that the Maslow 2 (and variants) it still has a lot of design faults that make it already halfway to being obsolete.
In the past MakerMade outsourced a lot of it's software development, they're now developing things in-house and have fixed the Login Issue of the Makerverse control software. That's a software bug that was fixed over 3 months ago. Since you consider MakerMade your competition, try to stay relevant and up to date on what your competition is doing. I have a few really good books on time-management if you're having difficulties.
Going back to Trademarks and all that good stuff again, from what i can tell MakerMade customers don't even use the word "maslow cnc", it's called an M2 or now M4 and M5. The M4 is your Maslow 4 machine with about 10-15 improvements to the design (from what i've seen) . From what i've heard the M5 is the next generation iteration which has been completely redesigned and physically more stable.
I know the MakerMade people quite well, and i help them with engineering consultation when needed. I think if you push the issue too hard they'll just dump a ton of money into the M5 product and make the Maslow 4 machine that you're making obsolete within 4-6 months. I'm pretty sure they will patent several things in the M5 machine - i certainly would if i had a competitor for sure.
MakerMade could have been an ally for you, instead you took things personally and made them an enemy. Considering that they're already setup to do business and manufacturing on the Chinese side and you're just getting your feet wet in that area they certainly are three steps ahead of wherever you're at in the manufacture of the Maslow 4 units that you're shipping to your backers.
I still (and will never) don’t see Bar or Maslow CNC as an enemy. This video shows someone crying in desperation. I’m hoping it will be deleted soon.
Thanks for your remarks! We're still working on developing things internally - it will not get a similar or confusing naming sequence to the Maslow.
I knew that MM bunch was kinda sketchy, but didn’t realize what they were doing. Sucks that that happened to them, but kinda deserve it when they didn’t make any original products! Keep up your updates!
We have the M2, 3D printer and now our new cnc500. We can keep our costs low because things are open source and those are the products we intend to develop. Hopefully with this new ownership you will not have that feeling anymore.
@@makermadellc well i guess you need to post your side of things.
@@mcavity There is a comment in this video and on the Kickstarter. I'm not doing to dip to a new low. The accusations are baseless and I've requested nicely to have the video deleted since the accusations are flat out incorrect and wrong.
@@makermadellc Im sure a statement saying that you understand Maker Made and Maslow cnc are separate entities would go far toward helping correct any misunderstandings =). It seems hes mostly just worried about people understating that they are 2 different companies.
@@mcavity That statement was in the second sentence of my response after I introduced myself. It's in the comment section of the video and also Kickstarter update. I was very clear that Maker Made LLC and Maslow CNC are different companies. We have set ourselves apart with our products while crediting the original project and people behind that project. Maslow CNC was not a company up until July 2023 - it was a domain name run by Bar for his open source project. That is what makes this video so surprising is the last 5 years we had been building the community and even supporting their Kickstarter campaign.
Bro! You bailed on the Maslow community 4 years ago and allowed MakerMade to continue the product. Now you decided to come back and act like Makermade is stealing your shit. Forget all the work Makermade did to continue development and keep the community alive.
But that's fine, I'm sure you'll bail on the community again as soon as you have enough money to get back to your travels.
I didn't bail, I've been working to improve the design and answering questions in the forums every day since. I just stopped selling the kits because I thought we could do better. I'm happy to let MakerMade run their business however they would like to, I just don't want them pretending to be Maslow. If they can make a better CNC, that's awesome.
after watching the first 2 minutes of this video, i think he's gonna need to file a Butthurt report. The dude is seriously chafed
usually when a product isn't updated in over a year it's considered a dead project. On github, in terms of "software years", if there isn't a code commit in 6 months the project is considered abandoned or severely depreciated@@maslowcnc
Makermade kept Maslow alive for 5 years while Bar was behind the scenes doing whatever he was doing.
waulk dee plank ya skervy nae! lol@@maslowcnc
you are so naive