How Bad Were the True Dual 4 Cylinder Exhaust Setups for Performance?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Our quest for the best sounding 4 cylinder exhaust has lead us to some weird places. (*cough*, true quad). But how do they stack up from a performance standpoint to a standard exhaust?
I like this guy. He seems like a simple man
And be a simpaaaaaaal kind of maaaaaaaaaaan
Oh be someoonnee you love and understaaaaannnddd
@@turkinator1014 oh baby be a simpleeeeeeeeee kind of maaaaaan
Simple is one of the hardest things to do.
it was nice seeing a video of yours blow up a few weeks back, maybe now you can afford to buy a windows key
...maybe..
het just spends everything on exhausts haha@@HatersGarage
activate for free using command prompt...
no one pays for windows
@@HatersGaragenah even if you can actually afford don't buy it
NEVER!
the vegas pro dyno never lies
Never
We old school motorcyclists went through this starting over 50 years ago.
We learned that a 4 into 1 beat 4 individual pipes. And that a 4 into 2 into 1 (a Tri-Y in car speak) beat everything.
Liked the vid!
It really depends on a lot of things. Bikes are a different beast because the capacity is small and internals are sturdy meaning you can rev out to 15k rpm which drastically changes things. Comparing say a big block V8 to a 1000cc inline 4 is apples to oranges. I appreciate that this Nissan is not a big block V8 but you know where I’m coming from
Yeah, but does it SOUND cool, that's what matters. At least in the case of my 650 twin it does, it's pretty slow, so might as well make it sound nice doing it.
Yeah but let's be honest here, exhaust performance gains, for street vehicles, is a min-max thing. Unless you're regularly going to the track, how it SOUNDS should be much more of a factor in deciding your exhausts than a single-digit horsepower gain at a very specific power band.
Of those, I think 4 into 1 sounds the coolest. 4-2-1 sounds too... normal these days.
For a h pipe or x pipe to offer better performance they need to be placed in exactly the correct spot. The old boys found the right spot by putting some non high temp paint along the front part of the exhaust and going for a good run, the middle of where the paint burns off first is the exact place to get the best performance. I doubt you want to keep doing this but it's food for thought! ... also do a dyno run because realistically except for the obvious clear winner of stock setup the others are way too close to be accurate by looking over footage. That being said I'm loving your videos so keep them coming 😉
Yeah when I was making the exhausts I just put the H and X pipes in the most convenient spot, because performance wasn't on my mind. I was surprised that all of the setups except for the regular exhaust were basically identical times, I expected them to vary more. The Sony Vegas dyno definitely isn't accurate, but it gives us a basic answer as to which were better
@HatersGarage Please retry the x and h pipe with placement performance in mind.
We need to know what is possible with 4 cylinder exhaust that actually sounds cool!
@@HatersGarage Yeah I absolutely loved this little series. Nice work dude
@@HatersGarage Oh yeah by the way .. Unequal length headers 😉 pleeeeasee
@@reed00112 I have an idea floating around for some unequal headers
Congrats on getting picked up by the algorithm, man. You deserved it!
Thanks
@HatersGarage also please NEVER change that profile picture, it's legendary.
@@riogrande163 I don't think I could top it anyway
Literally one of the funniest and most entertaining and straight to the point automotive channels right now with Toms Refurb, I hope you see great success, keep up the good work 👍
this channel is the automotive content I've craved for a long time
Love the editing, style, pace, overall delivery. Don't change a thing!
I'd dog you for that Flowmaster because it's definitely making it sound worse, but "It's what I had" is an extremely valid response. Also, IDK if I mentioned it in the last vid, but KJK (the other guy who tried 1-4, 2-3) reported an increase in torque and mid-range with the even-fire UEL design at his 3x length ratio. Haven't gotten another update from him since, so there's only the build+startup+static mild rev. Really wanna hear that car under load to see if it improves, but anyway.
Also, if you had a 1-4, 2-3 equal length, more commonly known as a 4-2-1 or tri-y, that was properly made, those see benefits across the board under 8000rpm. David Vizard and other builders of his caliber strongly recommend a 4-2-1 (1-4, 2-3 paired) equal-length header on any 4-cylinder that doesn't spin past 8k. Though it does involve a bit of math to tune the primary and secondary lengths and diameters.
I've heard that 4-2-1 setups make more low end power, and that's why OEMs use that setup. As far as tuning the headers for performance, I really wouldn't want to bother with that unless I had a dyno. Without it you pretty much just do the math and hope you got it right.
I'm just impressed you drew all that in paint instead of using notepad, or even the text tool in paint. Subscribed.
nissan sentra goated
Gyatted
Was dubious of the channel name... but am well and truly glad I clicked on whatever random video that ultimately led me here. You take XYZ idea, you run with it, show the results, maybe BS for quite literally a few seconds and then out. No drama, no padding, no BS. You, sir, are to be applauded; bravo!
Thank you for adding more chapters to this interesting story. I stumbled on the original video way back when, and it's wonderful to find more of your experiments. Although I've been subscribed for a long time there's a thousand other video notifications that drown each other out. I'm sorry for not showing as much appreciation and attention as your honesty and humour deserve. Good luck!
The full exhaust brought back all the torque I'm sure 😂
This is great content, fast cuts, no bs and humor. I wasnt going to watch anything from anyone today, but curiosity of true-4 sound turned out to be 4 videos in a row. Noice!
Good work. I think the new one sounds pretty good.
I like the sound too. It's still a little loud for my taste, though.
@@HatersGarage Says the man who has been straight piping his sentra in 15 different configurations lol
@@HatersGarage I just did a muffler delete on my 4 banger and it sounds great with the stock cat and the little coffee can resonator at the back.
Angry Bees! I hate it but it's also nostalgic. I miss the fart can era
My experience with can muffler is they should probably have a hollow resonator ahead of them unless you run the baffle which nobody does@@haveaniceface7290
I like the simplicity of ur vid. We found a good one, boys 🙏
True Dual 4 Cylinder Exhaust is my biggest inspiration this year
Haven't watched the video- but whatever loss is associated with the H pipe setup is worth it to my ears.
glad i stunbled onto your channel you're very entertaining! love the content! its the true dual exhaust vid that i found you through!
This shtuff is great. Keep doing it
I already got some 4-2-1 headers and I’ve been debating chopping them up into true duals for a long time. Glad I found your channel. Looks like you’ve been having a lot of the same crazy ideas as myself 😂
Like for the outro alone... And for doing no bs straight to the point content
In my experience building motorcycles, having some back pressure in the exhaust system over straight pipes helps performance. I have no idea why that is in all honesty, but my bike ran way better with some back pressure. In this case the “stock” setup with a muffler gives you some back pressure and likewise the 4 into 4 zoomies have virtually none, so I figured they would perform the worst. Thanks for the entertaining vids!
Editing goes hard
I like the content man made me subscribe after seeing a few of your videos keep it up
Why does this man only has 31k subs? he deserves so much more! Funny and entertaining😂
Glad this channel is getting attention now. I can’t believe you bought new parts, are you feeling ok that’s out of character? Thanks for the quality garbage content.
I really didn't have a choice, I wanted a real exhaust so I could drive the car again, but I didn't have enough scrap. Also my headers had been hacked up so many times they were basically trash
In all seriousness now it’s a nice exhaust can’t wait to see what you do next.
The voice of Sam Sulek commenting some truly epic video content right there - engineering on steroids
Perfect
I sure am exhaust-ed after seeing such a great video
Love the content
You should try adding a second looping pipe that is twice as long as the other pipe to try and mimic a V8 sound
that could be crazy
Per cylinder? 8 header pipes? Is double the length just an idea, or did you the math on it?
I looove the idea of a V8 sounding inline 4
I would like to make a 4 cylinder sound like a v8, but that's like trying to convince someone that your donkey is a pure bred race horse. I could try the looping pipe, but I think it would just sound like a really clappy 4 cylinder still
@@HatersGarage I would say more like painting zebra stripes on your donkey, silly but entertaining 😀
@HatersGarage Actually maybe running two sets of split header pipes, one longer then the other that re-enters at the same collector. I'd have to figure some math out to find the optimal length to simulate a V8's firing order, but it might be worth a shot for fun.
Another good one, informative and entertaining 👍
Just came across your channel and realized I live right down the road from you. Love the videos
This man is FranzJ of car content
I was in a CS match with him one time
@@HatersGarage LMAOO, let`s wait till he finds your channel 😭
Science! I like that :)
I would say that for power the best option would be equal lenght - 4-1 with long primaries or sequentially paired (1-3 2-4) 4-2-1. Of course with all the tricks like stepped piping, short colector. Perhaps maybe even venturi effect could help too (?).
Interesting results on the exhaust setups , surprised stock won.
i just had this done to my 03 SVT focus, coming out of the front bumper on both sides, very unique, lots of eyes lol
Damn great videos man, I never realized how different a 4cyl can sound! Can you make me headers for a 2.8 mpfi?🥴
yeah, but the true quad still sounds the coolest. I wonder if crossovers at where the collector would be would help with scavenging.
Possibly, but probably not much.
Subscribing! I just love the vibe of the vids man!
The one thing you never took into consideration is the distance between exit location of the pipes. Having the pipes further apart actually INCREASES the rumble sound. And closer together has a similar effect to a crossover.
Listen to a corvette with a quad exit in the center. Ive even seen one with true duals (no crossover) and it sounded like it still had a crossover due to the exit locations.
I actually built a true dual exhaust on my honda accord 2.3 about a year ago. My pipes exit on each side of the rear bumper kinda like an old muscle car. It has more of that aggressive rumble sound than even your true dual.
Also, theres other factors that can have an affect, such as runner lengths, and overall pipe length on each side. An exhaust with a crossover or y-pipe with equal lengths from header to crossover will have a smoother sound than one with uneven lengths before the crossover, such as on a truck, where the exhaust will usually run down the passenger side. Muffler placement also has an affect.
Your ecu is tuned for the normal exhaust so no surprises it worked best.
2 factors on why the quads were slower.
Since you have more pipe, there was more weight added.
Having only 1 pipe will cause a higher exhaust pressure velocity coming out so it will flow better than having 4 with less exhaust pressure velocity.
I choose a 4x2 to my car even knowing thats not gonna make it faster because i heard it once when i was a child in the same model. I just wish it doesnt make it slower 😅 (already have the exhaust but engine is not ready to run yet). Thanks for the vids, i was looking for this at a long time. Whatching u from Brazil 🔥
Control Exhaust = Angry Bees
Glad u agree. I personally hate it but it brings back nostalgia. Of a bygone era of riced out cars
@@Grimm-Gaming ... Unfortunately That era is not over 😂. Also thats what a 4cylinder sounds like 🎉 👏
Equal length headers with an h pipe and an h pipe with resonators would probably sound wild!
Should do a true triple exhaust
2 things that I can think off. The weight of the pipes and the backflow. Typically you want to have some backflow to the engine so it doesn't make vacuum pockets which steal potential power right out of the cylinder
please make more videos with tuning and experiments!
saw the title, watched the video, 3 minutes later I got exactly what I wanted
Been waiting for this for a while. I own a spec v and was curious
sounds really good tbh
You sound like the guy in the old Bud Ice commercials, “Drink Bud Ice, but ahh beware of the penguins.”
I hear the resemblance hah
I loved the part when you cooked the heat wrap lol
I still prefer the sound of the true duals w/wo the h-pipe . I would make up the difference in efficiency by going to a host engine with forged internals ( ecotec 2. O , srt4 2.4 ) and add compound boost . Example ; supercahrged ecotec 2.0. Add true duals with a tiny turbo at the end of each exhaust. Reduce the boost on the factory m62 supercharger and factor in the compound boost of the two tiny turbos .
That's very convoluted, but would be interesting
@@HatersGarage I don't know how I allowed myself to entertain that . Just turn up the boost at the supercharger . It's only a smidge haha
maybe its because the 4 banger its even fire, when v8 pick up power with the x or h pipe its because of the oddfiring and equalizing effect of the flows in the exhaust, this 4 pulses go just one behind another.
Could have something to do with it
Now that's the gearhead content i want to see, yay ! I want to know and hear about annoying stuff like the flex joint IF stuff happens and is annoying ^-^,
Microsoft Paint - A hawlmark of any kwality production!!! BTW LOVED IT!!!!!
Nothing Will Beat The True Quad. Screw The Performance That Sounded Fucking Awesome
On this setup or the one before, try making one of the pipes twice as long as the other. Or try out different lengths to play around with the phasing, there’s a guy that tried that on his GSXR1000 and it gave it a R1 crossplane sound
Haha jokes on the exhaust shop guy, im after a specific brand of niche, anyways you should do a crossplane conversation 😅
Pretty sure you have to either tune to have proper fueling or add intake volume to benefit from the exhaust systems extra flow and add more fuel. Pretty sure stock maps cant adjust properly for the modifications so a tune is necessary.
Another banger video from haters garage
Awesome work and experimentation😮
Just did some research on a jet engine exhaust system that did some crazy stuff. 🤔
What about an overlap of both your ingenuity and that- all with just some of the things on hand?
Like a exhaust turbine of sorts?
An exhaust turbine, what a novel concept. Perhaps I could pipe the air it generates into the intake.
@@HatersGarage*hang on...*
To only lose a second isn't bad to be fair, also, fucking performance when it sounds SO DAMN GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!
This is my second attempt at asking for a 4-8-4-2-1 system. I shall try again next video.
True Quad is the best... You just need more power to make it see its true potential :D HAHAHA I love it man, keep up the good work
Nice content dude, like it's only 3 ish minutes, there's a lot of people out there creating videos about changing their car exhaust, and those videos are 15 + minutes
The single exhaust performs better because of the venturi effect. One exhaust pulse pulls in the intake charge resulting in more power.
It's a little more complicated than that, each pulse needs to merge the stream in a different place or at a different time, so each pulse is right in the front or on the back of the other and have sufficient distance to create vacuum to pull the later one without messing up their shape and so the flow if they collide or closely travel with each other at different velocities.
Most times this is done naturally to some extend by the exhaust manifold piping having to varry in length from cylinder to cylinder in order to meet the exhaust.
Stock manifolds and exhausts are usually designed with this in mind, custom exhausts ruin the whole thing as nobody knows what they're doing or get involved in maths and simulations like in the factory design, you might get an increased performance with a random exhaust but rarely the engine performs ideally throughout its whole powerband, that's why it's better to use complete exhaust systems that are designed for specific applications.
@@johnbelwell2461yea but you act like any exhaust company is doing that anymore either. Maybe a 5 grand titanium exhaust but any catback your finding under $1,000 hasn’t had that much r and d done to it lol.
@@joshdaniel7894 unfortunately only those expensive exhaust kits are "usually" sophisticated but i know my self i wouldn't ever pay anything than the pipe's worth for an exhaust in its scrap price. It's easy to study a little bit of fluid dynamics, make some design copy from existing exhaust systems and especially study on stock exhaust principles in high petformance cars, and come up with a decent exhaust combination for decent money that is better than combining random parts from Marketplace or trusting a random exhaust shop build you an exhaust.
Are you still wiling to experiment with exhaust sound? I have one suggestion. Split the exhaust in two ant he end, route one pipe back to front and reintroduce that back to the system. That should really mess the pulses up. At some rpm might even sound like double the cylinders.
Im not professional but people says you need tune for exhaust to work. Maybe your cars original tune is good for normal exhaust.
+you gave special attention to normal exhaust too 😂
I didn't really give it much special attention, just cheap headers because my old ones were chopped up
What do people mean by tune when they're talking about a stock ECM? I'm confused as to why they think you put a holly EFI system in it. Do they mean to say they have no idea what they're talking about?
@@jankington216 People think that you have to have a tune for exhausts, in reality the ECM makes adjustments to the air fuel ratio automatically, usually up to 25%. The stock ECM on the stock tune will do fine with just an exhaust.
you should test back pressure, go smaller and smaller to see what happens and how much is too much, lol
That sounds fun, I think I saw Garage 54 do that
Love your videos. Looking at your results, the delta between normal and all the others seems suspect. Same stretch of road? Colder temps on that day?
All of the tests were done on different stretches of road, but all were flat. I rechecked the times over and over, and the times for the abnormal exhausts were just very similar.
Can you please re-do the 1-2 & 3-4 pairing but have one side’s exhaust pipe be much longer than the other, and the two exhaust pipes being further apart? Like side pipes for example?
That would give you a true 45 degree v-twin kinda sound imo.
quad exhaust will always sound better imo, has the sound of a subaru without uel headers.
Technically the quad was unequal length headers, each pipe was a different length
@@HatersGarage ah alright, my apologies. but its still cool though
I think it's something to do with exhaust valve timing and backpressure. The collector creates a backpressure that the car is tuned to allow some of it back into the cylinder, mixed with fresh air to create higher compression. Something like that idk, science.
The engine lets some exhaust back into the cylinder, but it's not to increase compression. It's to remove the need for an EGR valve, and improve emissions.
Never owned a sentra, always liked them though. Solid car
Go for a true equal length header setup.
I'm probably going to modify these headers to be equal length long tubes at some point.
I wish I could do this to my daily 98 5 speed Sentra....but I would get endless tickets 😂
It would be insanely cool to see a dual exhaust BUT one pipe is for one cylinder and the other pipe is used by the other three
Good ol' Chinesium fumes LOL
The true duals must lose too much mid range torque. One of them might make more power than stock but at redline, and that’s not real world driving. Only on the race track do you always use the upper range of the revs. It was interesting to hear the different pipes. Excellent work man!
4 into 1 offers best gas flow, because you have a constant exhaust gas flow from at least 1 cylinder. If you connect 1 + 2, and 3 + 4, you get a flow that goes fine for 1 crank revolution, then stalls for another one, then goes again. So basically a stop-start system instead of continual flow. The issue should be obvious.
20-55 is a torque pull so naturally the normal exhaust will do better because it has back pressure which improves torque
what about doing stepped headers, not only for performance but also to hear if there is any difference w non stepped
what about a all in one collector. (those weird cone shaped ones)
Hi. From what I saw in previous videos with true dual exhaust you connected cylinders 1-2 and 3-4. I wonder what the difference would be if it was 1-4 and 2-3?
I have two Flowmaster fxs on my Nissan Altima 2.5 and they sound great. Bottom line is the dual exhaust versions just flowed too much. I'm guessing if you would have used a smaller diameter pipe in your true dual setups it would have worked well.
this guys great
Is it possible that the increased times are a result of an altered/ less effective exhaust scavenging pattern?
And what about cylinder pairing per pipe? (ie 1&2, 3&4; 1&3, 2&4; 1&4, 2&3.)
Always hated how inline fours sounded, but is there any chance I could convince you into making a vid of a mustang style header where they made a flat plane kinda sound like a cross, well that and a different firing order
Hell Yeah
now do two exhaust pipes per cylinder
That would really just be the true quad again with dual tips
And then x pipe them all to different cylinders
I think the normal setup out performed the others so much because that's what the stock tune is designed for. If you took the time to dyno tune each of those setups I bet the differences would shrink significantly
neat!
sacrifice to the algorythm gods
dammm it goes wild
Bro need more likes an subs i want to see MORRRE