Huge respect to the gentleman for his knowledge, experience and taking his time to do this. One thing you notice with all the test videos on you tube is that the shooters are firing from the bench. I'm certainly not going to say this is wrong (my back and knees thank me when I bench shoot), but realize that when we go up from the prone supported position we are sacrificing stability for convenience, height and speed of target acquisition. This is why we teach and practice shooting fundamentals transitioning from the most stable to the most unstable: prone supported (bags/bipods/slings) - prone unsupported -benched- sitting supported - sitting unsupported - kneeling supported - kneeling unsupported - standing supported and ending with standing unsupported. Undoubtedly the most recoil support , stability (and therefore accuracy) comes from the prone supported position. However, I have never seen anybody demonstrating or testing rifles or ammunition for accuracy actually get the sandbag out and get down on the ground to do it! Again we sacrifice accuracy for convenience. It just is. Every time I watch one of these videos I always wonder how much tighter the groups would be if the shooter actually "got prone" and applied the fundamentals. Remember - the amazing groups done with these rifles in competition matches are all from the prone positions using sandbags, slings, or bipods for stability. Watching this gentleman's shooting I know he would tighten those groups considerably laying flat in the prone and focusing more on position/hold/alignment without all that muzzle jump and cheek weld adjustment we see shot to shot opening up his group results. So to be fair and call a spade a spade - this is really a demonstration of accuracy potential from the third least accurate position. I'm in the same age range as this shooter, so I get it. Heck, with my bad back I even like a nice padded cushion to sit on all day when using a bench, but that also adds to recoil effect with more unstable bounce shot to shot in the end.
Excellent video! When I was shooting match in the 80's, the M1A and M1 were the standard. The AR platform was just coming on to the scene. Almost everyone was shooting the 168gr Sierra Match King over IMR 4895. I still shoot this combo today. Yes, glass bedding is almost a must for accuracy. If you shoot rapid fire as in the matches, you will begin to see signs of pyrolysis (charring) on the stock without glass bedding. Also, changing at least the rear sights to NM helps. New or old, the M1A is a great platform.
I don't comment much on your channel because unfortunately there isn't enough space to write down all that I appreciate about it. I will just say thank you for sharing, I truly enjoy your content.
Appreciate the look at the M1A Standard! 2:07 - Introduction and discussion on M1A Standard 4:21 - Discusses loose rear sight 6:08 - Ammo to be tested 9:10 - Barrel diameter 11:40 - Barrel diameter, length, bayonets (history) 13:50 - Accuracy (history) 15:27 - Thoughts on scope use 16:58 - Stock fit 18:55 - Description of test and conditions 21:35 - IMI 7.62x51 150 gr NATO 21:56 - Discusses trigger pull 24:20 - Discusses barrel mirages 29:02 - IMI 7.62x51 NATO results 29:32 - Federal .308 150 gr Non-Typical Whitetail 33:31 - Federal Whitetail results 34:08 - Softpoint ammo discussion 37:22 - Winchester Super-X .308 150 gr Power-Point 40:38 - Winchester Power-Point results 41:20 - Norma .308 150 gr Soft Point 46:38 - Norma results 47:45 - Sako .308 150 gr Super Hammerhead 52:11 - Sako results 53:30 - Federal .308 175 gr Gold Medal Match 57:10 - Federal Gold Medal results 58:00 - Outro, steel target shooting
I believe if John C Garand were alive today, this video would have put a smile on his face. What a beautiful piece of history and also that was some fine shooting! I'm picking up after a long term hiatus from shooting and going back to the basics to improve my shooting skills. I bought peep sights for my mini-14 and am practicing with that. Your instructional videos have really helped my daughters and I! Thank you for the very nice production of this video! It was a beautiful quality and good sound! 👍
At 55:20 The "Match King" bullet is so devastating that even the wind turned and ran the other way! Ha! I enjoyed the intro and music as well. Very relaxing and enjoyable video! Thank you. Best Wishes from Montana M.H
Great to see you again. This summer I'll be trying to do with my M1A what I was able to do back when I first qualified with the M14. I am hoping for a really great summer. Oh, no sloppy sites.
Alway enjoy the history and your insight of the firearm at hand… I’m 65 yrs old now & I bought one some time ago from a younger collector who went mote towards the AR platform. I guess I should take it out and fire a couple of rounds down wind like you before it gets to heavy for me to control it…. Thank you for your posting. 😎🌺🤙🏽
Great evaluation! My M1A has been ignored for some years. It’s the standard weight stainless “match” barrel (according to Springfield Armory) with synthetic stock. When I got it, the rifle had the best two stage trigger I’d ever experienced. But it started to double and I sent it back to SA. Not as good now, but OK and safe. I never found great accuracy, but didn’t play with it much. Now that I’m retired it’s time to dig it out. Thanks again for the video! 👍
Yep. I talked only on the phone to Springfield, then sent only the trigger group. The BATFEces has been known to intercept match guns that doubled, then charge the owners with conspiring to manufacture and manufacturing automatic weapons. @@jameswilson1407
It does seem that bayonets and butt strokes were replaced by extended magazine capacity. A short piece of plastic and aluminum just doesn’t have the oomph of a large walnut or beech log with a steel butt plate.
I’m with you 100%. I’ve got two of these Springfield armory beauties! the first being a standard M1-A & and the Springfield armory SoCom squad rifle. I’m Not much for Scopes and red dots. I can rest my rifle on any hard surface or static surface and hit my target. As long as I can get a good line of sight and a site picture. I’ll drop whatever I’m shooting at. I appreciate your story and you taking the time to share that rifle with us.
Carried and trained 1967 Ft. Beginning,Ga. From Korea 67 to Nam 68 and for awhile in the 1970 509th Abn Mech Infantry, Mainz, Gonsenheim Germany. Then the 16A1. Now I have the M1A in the Socom model with one weird camouflage. Very accurate with iron sights better then 100 yards. Grouped within inch to inch and a half at 100 benched held right firing left support arm elbows on bench table. Not to fond of the new type battery operated digital optics. Had a recon platoon with 11 man sniper squad with the M21 system.3/325 Abn Inf. Thank you for the expert videos. I’m also very fond of the 1911’s 4.25 to 5”.
Thank you for a wonderful video. Finally at 68 got my own standard walnut, now it's in my hands after decades of that picture of the man holding one off hand in the springfield armory ad.
Was very pleased to see your Memorial Day video. I salute you for it! Great day at the range and you brought us along for the ride. Nice job with the Federal ammo as I was betting on it performing that way. You are a TH-cam treasure Sir! Best of luck and stay safe.
EXCELLENT VIDEO. As good a way to spend Decoration Day as anything else. About 25 years ago, I bought a “loaded” SA M1A. First thing I noted was the lack of USGI parts. Fired the first half dozen rounds and blew the oprod right off the track. Sent it back to SA. It came back with all GI parts and as a much better shooter. About that same time, I picked up two Polytech (chinese) M1A clones. Tossed everything but the receiver and had two very fine shooters built from them by Clint McKee (RIP) of Fulton Armory. Back in those days, one could buy NOS USGI M14 parts from CMP at excellent prices, as well as like new M14 parts kits for $100 - $150 on ebay.
The optimization of a rifle barrel is intended for a certain round with a military in mine. Where we get into trouble is when we put in a heavier ball and a faster foot per second ammunition. Optimization of the barrel was done to eliminate the weight so a soldier had more energy to fight while carrying this rifle. They calculate the pressures every inch of the length of the barrel and it reduce this diameter of the barrel to about 150% of the required pressure normally it would be over 200%. Many things take into account when you optimize this barrel the vibration of the bullet traversing the barrel and it does make it vibrate the sound vibration of the shot discharging 8,000 ft per second four times the speed of what the bullet comes out the end of the barrel barrel whip which is a result of all these vibrations. So if you're looking for accuracy to go back to the original round that was designed for that barrel won't be perfect but it will be much better than some of the new ammo. The powder is very critical for this rifle that has an optimized barrel faster burning powder puts a lot of pressure and heat back at the breach of the barrel where it is the thickest. The successful load will be down to zero at the end of the barrel when pressure if powder is being burnt after the ball leaves the barrel you're going to lose accuracy. Also a gas operated rifle powder burn rates are very important
In the history of mankind, the US included, burdens of a marching soldier are and always have been the requirement of the individual to bear, without consideration for his fighting stamina. He fights because he must survive, and he has stamina because he has been getting up every morning to run 4 miles before breakfast, and marches 6 miles back and forth to the range with full gear. Stamina is a product of training, muscles, and endurance, not weight reduction of his burden. Ordnance wasn't in the least concerned when they engineered two consecutive ten pound rifles, and certainly didn't care when the weight of 20 round magazines of 7.62 were added to the mix. Even today, soldiers are packing more in 60 pound rucksacks than they were required to bear in WWII, and they are still required to fight when they arrive. The name Grunt has meaning. The common belief that military autoloaders are only efficient with ball ammo is entirely a myth, which is proven by competitive shooters who rarely use ball ammo or 150 bullet weights. They have used them all, quite satisfactorily, with trophies to show for it. They pump velocity to the ceiling to reduce flight time and reduce wind effects as much as possible. Autoloaders are a slave to a certain pressure timing for correct operation, not accuracy. On a given page of a handloading manual for "service loads" that have been laboratory tested in Garands and M1A rifles, dozens of satisfactory loads may be found with all available bullets and many suitable powders. There's no such thing as a one load rifle or magic load. While a cartridge can be loaded with powders and velocities that provide the correct harmonics for a given bullet in a given barrel design, barrels are not optimized for harmonics. Harmonics occurs with all barrels. The only difference between light and heavy barrel harmonics is the degree of vibration, but both have nodes and overtones that are satisfied with any number of bullets and velocities. With the correct powder and charge, ammo of any bullet weight and speed can be fired in any barrel of any length and any diameter. Rifling twist is the only limiting factor. Correct harmonics are not isolated to any velocity in the M1A or any other barrel or cartridge. The issue, unmodified Garand and M14 have chalked up countless wins at Camp Perry with competition bullets ranging up to 190 grains; substantially heavier than issue ball ammo. I have great loads in a variety of velocities for various guns. It's just a matter of testing to discover the powder and charge that produces the desired velocity..
Hi another great and informative video. It has been my experience shooting M1A Rifles that they tend to like heavier bullets. I,am NOT surprised the Federal 175 grain match did so well.
Im proud owner of M1A standard rifle two month ago and i have fired rifle two week ago too tight group inch two shot aint apart from that it like together that's incredible accurate as ever i will never regret ever since my FFL dealer international told me that is best decision you make no one else want buy but im proud of you get taste od history battlefield rifle 🤜🤛💪
Great work. As you state, there's no issue with firing jacketed softpoint bullets. The issue is with using CAST LEAD non-jacketed bullets, which will shave lead on the gas port. It happens in the M1 too. The only reason anyone ever did that was to cheap-out on reloading supplies. over time, the gas cylinder and piston will get fouled with shaved lead and the weapon won't function.
Great video Sir! I was working on my M1A GI model for last six months trying to fit it in Service Rifle match. I have tried different loads and couldn't get a good 5 shot group without a flyer. Situation got changed when I replaced factory recoil spring guide rod with NM Sadlak. My group shrunk by around 35%, and no unexplainable flyers. My current M1A accuracy is about 2MOA now from prone position. Which is just enough for local Hi Power matches.
That “non typical” ammo seemed to eject in random directions. The Norma ammo looked to eject very fast. The IMI did not eject consistently. The Sako ejected from 2 o’clock to 4 ! The Federal premium ejected from 3 to 4.
Honest review. Many many years ago I traded an M16 for a M14. Never looked back. I've owned and shot many a weapon since then. My favorite being the 1911. Wanted to try a 9mm back when they first became popular and ordered a Smith & Wesson 1911 on 9mm. Waited about 6 months and my dealer called and said they could not find the S&W but found the Springfield Amory Range officer in 9MM. Biggest piece of scrap iron I have ever bought. The extractor was a Just blog of metal, the ejector fell out in the first mag. Jammed the gun up good. Found the ejector was held in with lock tight of some sort in stead of being staked. Dumb. Spent a couple hundred more $ and put all Wilson Combat guts in it. (extractor, spring kit, bushing, disconnect, etc.)Not a bad pistol now, but never again Springfield Amory.
Thanks for making this video enjoyed watching you shoot and hearing you talk about all the ammo you shot . I had just bought my first M 14 sprinfeild . All the rifles I have owned this is my favorite and best shooting . Wish I would have bought one sooner and not wasted all my money on other rifles . I guess you figure that out with age I'm going on 50 soon . Anyways thanks for the video
Always a pleasure to see and hear from you gunblue. Am I picking up on a few of your dislikes regarding your M1A? 2moa with irons is superb shooting. Thanks for another enjoyable video.
What you correctly picked up is a great dissatisfaction for quality, not type. Sights that wiggle and stocks that rock are entirely unacceptable, given the repeatable precision of investment cast receivers and modern CNC stock inletting equipment. This is no longer 1955, and wood can be inletted to machine tolerances now. If Ruger can turn out tight fitting wood stocks for the Mini-14 that require no epoxy, SA can. Unfortunately, I suspect it's intentional for the reasons I stated. It's a great rifle, and I thoroughly love it, but I know they are deliberately creating a market for scaled upgrades.
@@GunBlue490 Spot on explanation. I can imagine you'll be turning this good rifle into a great one. Observing you bedding your M1A would be a tremendous video.
My gunsmith was in the hundred first Airborne in the early 1960s and had the unique job amongst several, of checking the m-14s for their accuracy. He would usually take 224 rifles of every 100 and test them on a regular basis. According to his tests, he stated he was getting subbed to minute of angle accuracy out of 96% of the rifles he tested. And most of the rest would shoot within 3 in. He became a Firearms instructor while he was in basic training because he could outshoot his drill instructor. His drill instructor was trying to explain how he was using his sling wrong while he was shooting. And he told the drill instructor that he would listen to him when his drill instructor could outshoot him. He found that he had fired 13 Rounds into the bullseye and immediately tasked him with teaching the people who had never picked up a rifle in their life. My drill instructor had been shooting competition with m-1 garands since he was 13 years old.
44 Hawk. I'm sure that I'm misreading something here, but how could he take 224 of every 100 rifles and test them for accuracy? Surely you meant 100 of every 224?
Nice video; it made me nostalgic about my old Fulton Armory Peerless that I traded off about 11 years ago for an FN SCAR 17S. Wish I would have kept that one.
Of the ones I was paying attention to, the Sako ammo. Most of them between 2:00 and 4:00. That seemed to be pretty good I found that the IMI was either slinging them forward from too much recoil. To sometimes barely getting out of the firearm. That was kind of weird and that second batch that you fired where the one it only came back about a quarter of the bolt throw I have no idea what caused that. Almost to Hang Fire
Great work. I have been putting off getting an M1-A finally. The MOA discussion scared me a bit, and made me consider my motivations. Many voices make them out to be 1000 yd rifles. All in all though, compared to an M1 Garand, I'm not as big a fan of the 30-06, as the .308. I may still go down the same path. In the end, it's similar to wanting one or several SKS rifles. It's another way to enjoy the hobby/obsession.
Thanks! Great review. 168gr FGMM is my standard for the M1A. The other great ammo is M852 if you can find it. Basically, the M852 became the 168gr FGMM. Both shoot very much the same accuracy.
Another great video; makes my 3rd one on the M1A. I subscribed on the first video when you took it out of the box. Have the Scout version and also found the 175g Gold Match the most accurate. Love the gun! Thanks for the detailed reviews.
Looks like some pretty country out there. My semi auto .308 has shot the Gold Medal Match 168 grain Sierra Match Kings in very tiny groups right out of the box. I have wanted to come up with my own loads for this one, but these Gold Medal rounds would be hard to beat from my experience.
Great video. Mine also started out as a standard model , hovering around 3moa average with various ammo. After putting it in a Sage EBR Chassis, putting a ss medium weight match barrel, getting a national match reemed flash suppressor, national match sights, nm trigger group and sadlak piston and recoil guide rod, it now shoots right around moa. But that cost about $1,600 in upgrades to make happen
@@thesanfordmethod1905 I did get shims for it to help with consistency, but after testing I actually found mine to be most consistent without any shims, so at this point there are none
@@DeathWishProject Thanks, also did you get any upgraded springs for it, and that reemed flash hider, does it help with accuracy or just reduce the amount of the chime it rings after every shot? i just bought a SA standard M1A w black synthetic stock and I'm really psyched, even with all these possible issues. :D
Great info, being a nam combat vet with experence with the m16 an m14 carried both plus m60 hog,, of all my choice was the m14 , now not light weight an back then being phased out by m16 they thought I was crazy asking for one but got my wish, took my ammo off the m60 belt I carried 5 or 6 box magazines in claymore mine pouches ,, it had reach out range like the m60 on full auto it would climb Mt Everest , but being the only grunt in the company carring one I'm still here,,as far as acurracy we didn't have time to worry about it in combat situations great weapon with fire power
Raymond Quave After having two failure to fire episodes after going through approximately 1 bandoleer of 5.56 ammo per episode, I also traded in my M-16 to the armory for the M-14. I was an advisor back then in 1970 and could choose which weapon I wanted to carry. The M-14 was heavier and the mags were bulkier, and you couldn't carry as much ammo as the 5.56 allowed, but the reliability of the M-14 was of utmost importance to me. And yes the penetration of the 7.62 round was of great importance to me as well.
Nice Opening. You brought back memories of Collin's Cotton Mountain Cottages on Little Squam. For plinking with my Scout Squad, I use the Winchester White Box M80 149 gr. and although a bit pricey - it does the job form me. BTW , I took your advice on the Tech Sites for my 10/22 and Mini14 - THANK YOU. Nice Video.
Thank you. Correct stock to action fit as Ruger does with the wood stocked Mini-14 would have made for a better group. I think it's more intentional than QC.
@@GunBlue490 I have some experience with the M1a. The one I bought is a Polytech with a Walnut stock. I got it for a song, considering it wouldn't hold a group better than 8" O.o After bedding the stock, unitizing the Gas Valve, and timing the Gas 'nut' to lockup properly, it's a MoA Rifle. It even has a chrome lined barrel. The stock fitment concerning forend length on these rifles is paramount as well. They really are a magical piece of equipment when happy HaHa. :D
In 1970 I personally watched an M21 shoot a ten shot, two inch group at 300meters out of a machine rest. Lake City match, bullets pulled and reseated with 168 SMK International rejects (they were rejected as a reault of air guage testing; the ones that passed were loaded into Winchester virgin brass for the bolt guns). The M21 was sent to Vietnam with others built the same way. That was at FORT BENNING, not long after my first son was born there. I happen to know and stay in touch with one of the snipers who got one of those M21s. The riflemen and the rifles did the job. They made the legends that so many talk about now. Then we come to these days and the rifles sold today. I would not stir a bucket of paint with a NEW rifle that could not do better than "about" three inches at 100 yards. About a year ago that same old sniper, now in his 70s, has shot better than 2 inches with my slap together M-1 and TW 69 M2 Ball fresh out of the bandolier. I think I'll stay with the M1.
Great video! Always enjoying them. I know that Federal and Springfield have a relationship. Hence maybe that's why the last group was so good... been using their ammunition in all my Springfields. Not a bum in the lot. Thank you sir for the video and looking forward to your next one.
Excellent shooting as always! Did you decide to glass bed the rifle, and if you had, did you see much improvement at the range. I picked up a standard and unfortunately my AR10 is leaving it behind in the accuracy department.
Thank you. I may bed it some day, and I'm sure it will show some degree of improvement if I do. As I mentioned in the video, the M14 was designed to satisfy the long standing 4 MOA military requirement that was no different than the battle rifle accuracy requirement for its predecessor or its successor. Despite its legendary status that grows fonder in the memory of US veterans, it was not an accurate rifle by modern standards, and it shouldn't be expected to measure to such standards. Most folks buy it for nostalgic and sentimental reasons that have little to do with accuracy.
If I could meet 1 gun guy on TH-cam you sir are in the top 3 and my number 1 for the history. I really enjoyed the video of the savage 99. Would love to shoot and swap stories with you some day.
Thank you for this episode As I think the m-14 is one of the greatest rifles ever made … Hopefully you can get ahold of a 1941 Johnson I’m sure your itching to take one to the range ….it and the LMG version were designed by a Marine and the Marines really liked his rifles
Respect the veterans. My dad was merchant marine in ww2 and several friends in korea and vietnam. Thanks for doing this video. Would the national match be a good way to go ? Love your videos and info. Baby oil for gun oil is a tip i had never heard.
We share God's gifts in NH. Many of our back roads are privately owned and graciously open for use. Posted land is very uncommon here, and when such a sign is tacked up, it's generally for a genuinely good reason.
I’ve recently been getting my Springfield NM out more often. The best I got with that is a 2.6” 5 shot group at 250 yards but not sure if I could do it again. Also I color filled the sight with crayon as per a previous vid
I have an LRB M14SA standard with USGI standard sights. The rear sight has play like you described. I have 2k rounds through it and it is a 2MOA rifle using the iron sights of course. I have qualified as rifleman at Appleseed marksman clinics using the Army AQT targets with this rifle using iron sights. That is under timed conditions, with reloading magazines in mid stage, shooting offhand, sitting, and prone, and requires at least 4MOA to achieve sufficient accuracy to score passing. The play in the sights worried me when I recieved the rifle, but it's performance dispelled my doubts.
Excellent video. I always enjoy them because of your expertise. There were a couple of descriptive text that appeared on the screen. Would you consider leaving them on screen a few seconds longer. I couldn't read them completely before they disappeared. I'm interested in knowing what you had to say with those messages. Thanks for the informative videos. Always a pleasure to watch.
The m14 i trained with in 2009 was tight fitting. It also had decent iron sights. Our rifles hadnt been built yet and i got my replacement after training but i carried it through the mountains and loved it, all 12 1/2 pounds of it. Not sure what tool you needed to drop the action out but i use my hands.
As always a very informative and eloquent presentation. Do you happen to know a good Garand smith in the Central Texas area? I think I have a timing issue with a M1 Garand. Thank you for your videos!
I'm in New Hampshire, so I've no information that can help you. I would call the Civilian Marksmanship Program Store at 256-835-8455. The CMP sells refurbished Garands and someone there should have information to help you. "Timing"? I'm not sure what you are referring to. I know that some folks refer to the hesitancy of the bolt to release when the en blok clip is inserted as timing. In general, Garands simply require new replacement parts when they start having issues. Be sure to check for a bent operating rod, and never use high pressure factory commercial ammo. Standard 30-06 ammo off the shelf is far too hot. Only military service ammo or equivalent pressure handloads.
Great content on the m1a. Using lake city bulk I get very consistent ES and SD. Mine also being a standard model, my rear sight did not have the play that yours showed in a previous video but am glad to have seen your fix for a reference.
Sometime in the mid 90’s Springfield ran out of USGI parts to build new M1A’s. Seems ever since then things have gone down hill. I somehow got incredibly lucky and got one made in 88 unshot. It’s the standard M1A with the walnut stock but it’s fitted immaculately and it’s wildly accurate with just irons.
I've always wanted an M1A just because of how it looks. Now that my son and I have gotten into deer hunting and possibly black bear hunting, I'm really looking into this rifle as a kind of do it all rifle. What are your thoughts on that? I know the .308 is a good whitetail deer round and have been told it's good for bear as well. I feel this rifle could handle business if I were to ever need it in a crisis situation...
Thanks for posting this review I was dead set on picking up a Springfield either standard or the loaded version then I found a company that produces some nice rifles namely Bula defense all their variants have forged intervals rather than cast like Springfield uses granted you pay for that but unfortunately they only have a year warranty compared to Springfields lifetime warranty I’ll probably go Springfield dud to the warranty alone
A lot of research went into making the M14 lighter after soldiers that carried the M1 said that they would like a rifle that was not so heavy. They managed to get a 20 round detachable magazine but about the same weight.
What year model is that M1A, they were not supposed to have 308 ran out of them, at least not the early ones from seventies through early 90’s, every one I had by the owners manual and barrel stamp was 762.51, I’ve heard the latest generations run both.
My M1a manual says the same thing even though my barrel is stamped 308. It's from the late 2000's. I think the manual that comes with the gun is just a old reprint for collectors sake. In reality it should run 308 or 7.62x51, it's more dependent on how the cartage was loaded. I think the reason why it says to run only 7.62x51 originally is just to avoid liability in case someone got some hot 308 loads with really heavy bullets and ends up causing damage to the gun. It's the same thing with M1's warning people not to use hot loaded commercial 3006. If you want to 100% replicate what it was tested with back in the day then you need 7.62x51 sized brass, make sure your only using 147gr .307 bullets (yes .307 not .308), and always with milspec primers. But, that's something that I don't even see in commercially labeled 7.62x51 ammo.
Read the owner’s manual for the rifle or contact SA customer service if in doubt. SA M1A rifles were/are designed to shoot either SAAMI spec .308 Winchester or 7.62x51 mm NATO. The early model rifles were marked 7.62 on the receivers. This changed in the 1990s, but they were still fine to fire .308 ammunition. There are two issues here. One is that military spec 7.62 ammo has hard primers. Some commercial .308 has softer primers. Chambering a round causes the firing pin to hit the primer causing a slight impact crater. If the primer is too soft the round could fire, aka slam fire. This has been known to happen but is not very common. This issue can also happen in AR15 pattern rifles, again very uncommon. NATO 7.62 is less susceptible due to their hard primers. So always observe the cardinal rules of forearms safety and keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. This is true regardless of the ammo used. The second issue is that the chamber specs are different between .308 and 7.62. SAAMI sets the specs for .308. These dimensions are less than what is allowed for military 7.62 chambers which allow for longer chambers. There is an overlap. SA builds the M1A with chambers cut in the mid range where .308 and 7.62 overlap which is why both cam be fired in the M1A. If you are unsure have a gunsmith check the headspace on your rifle to make sure it is in that mid range and hence safe to shoot either round. Some specialty houses make M14 clones closely copied from the M14 and for those it might be specified by the manufacturer to shoot only NATO spec 7.62. Suffice it to say many shooters have fired lots of .308 Winchester safely in their SA M1A rifles.
@@jamesjohnson4159 damn Lotta info.. so 308 thru m1a 762 thru m14 That's basically what you said? But both models shoot both? Depending on if the chamber can fit the cartridge due to overlaping lengths? Did I get that right? Plus primer issues depending on rifle model too?
This rifle, and the manual that accompanied it, give it a .308 rating. A .308 Winchester chambering can always safely fire both, just as a 5.56 NATO can always safely fire .223 Remington ammo. Slam fires can occur when a bolt falls on a previously chambered single fed round, which is true with the Garand or M14/M1A. All rounds should be stripped from a magazine to prevent slam fires before bolt lockup.
@@KurticeYZreacts I made a long reply to your questions but it’s been deleted by someone. Sorry. I’m not going to repeat it all. In summary: 1. The SA M1A is made with a .308 chamber. You can shoot any quality commercial .308 ammo that’s made to SAAMI specs and any 7.62 x 51 NATO spec ammo. 2. If you have an M1A or M14 clone chambered for 7.62 x 51 from another manufacturer check the owner’s manual or better yet contact the manufacturer for their ammo recommendations. 3. Slam fires are possible with any rifle which has a fire floating firing pin. Including all the rifles in the M1A family including the M1 Garand, the M14, the M1A and their clones. It’s also possible in the M16/AR15 family of rifles. Quality SAAMI spec .308 ammo or NATO spec 7.62 should not be a problem. The possibility increases if you single load one round into the chamber by hand and then let the bolt slam forward. In that instance the bolt velocity is much higher because the bolt is not being slowed down by stripping a round from the magazine. This will give a harder primer strike which causes the slam fire. So best practice is to chamber from the magazine. If you do load one in the chamber by hand the way to decrease the chance of a slam fire is to release the bolt slowly. Once it’s at about 1/2 closed then let the bolt go. This will result in a lower bolt velocity more akin to the velocity when chambering from a magazine. 4. Make sure you understand there is .308 ammo and 7.62 ammo. There is also a .308 spec chamber (SAAMI spec) , and a Military 7.62 chamber. 7.62 and .308 ammo is essentially the same length, so either chambers just fine. However the chambers can be different. The Military spec 7.62 chamber can be longer. So the issue is not caused by the ammo per se as much as with the chamber length and head space. So as a rule it’s fine to shoot either .308 or 7.62 NATO spec ammo in an M1A with a .308 chamber. The safety issue arises in shooting some .308 ammo in a rifle with a 7.62 chamber. If the chamber is cut longer, as the 7.62 chamber spec allows, and the head space is greater then after firing the case can push back more and expand so the case is not fully supported at the rear. This can allow the case to bulge or even for the case head to separate leading to extraction failure. As long as the bolt was fully closed so there is no out of battery detonation this case separation typically shouldn't cause injury to the shooter. It just results in a cycling malfunction. 7.62 NATO spec ammo cases are thicker at the base (the web) and so less likely to separate. Some .308 ammo has thinner cases. That’s why some manufacturers of rifles with a 7.62 chamber say to only shoot NATO spec 7.62 ammo. Shooting some of this weaker case .308 in a long cut 7.62 chamber can result in case head separation. It shouldn’t be a problem with quality commercial .308 made to SAAMI specs but there is lower quality ammo out there. To be safe shoot what the rifle manufacturer says.
Just saw this video . M14 and the P51 always get my attention. I see a short barrel stabilizer on your stock unit and your getting the acceptable MOA. Could you achieve exceptional MOA with a longer stabilizer? Like to see a field swap on the range comparison.
My Standard M1a, circa 1995 made shoots standard M80 ball 1.5" groups at 100 yrds. My handloads with imr4064 and a Sierra 168 grn. Match shoot 1" groups all day long. Guess I got a good one!
Off topic I know but the recent popularity of subsonic ammunition makes me wonder if we are seeing a return to the cartridges of yesteryear, at least performance wise. I am thinking of the 45-70, 32-20, 25-20, 38-55 all the way down to the 22 short which is being replaced by subsonic LR. Some of the modern cartridges are moving the emphasis away from velocity, the 6 mm ARC for example. Would love to hear your thoughts on this topic.
Cowboy shooting has enjoyed a resurgence in interest with low velocity antique cartridges, and there has always been an interest in .22 shorts and 45-70 and such, but they represent a very small segment of ammo production and guns chambered for them, overall.
Sorry to blow up your channel but dont they offer heavier barrels for the M1A? I always thought they offered everything from ,light to medium and heavy barrels for the M1A? NO?
@@GunBlue490 I have a ground squirrel problem in the orchard at the ranch I am caretaker of it is the historical Clyde Ranch I'm in the middle of a canyon in the middle of nowhere in Southern California and I was wanting to get rid of those ground squirrels they are bad for the apple trees and I thought of 17 WSM but your suggestion on that and and comments and things to think about made me go with the 22 to 50 that way I could just set in the yard and shoot at them out in the orchard probably $250 yd sometimes I like Savage rifles mainly because of the trigger and I don't need a short barrel because I'll just be sitting there anyway with your expertise I respect what you think say and do what would you suggest in 22 to 50 if you don't mind my asking sir
That Federal Match 175 gr is good stuff. I shoot it out of a FN PBR and it prints 1/2 MOA @100 yds. I know we are talking about the M1A which I have several. I've handloaded Sierra 168's and shot 3/4 MOA 5 shot groups out of a Match rifle (Iving, TX gun). Anyway, thanks for talking about the Std rifle which I also own.
In 1966 at Fort Polk I zeroed (1, 000 inch range my well-used M-14 with standard issue ammo and had 6 rounds in the black ( have photo) if interested) That was in August In Lousiana - plenty of heat and humidity.
The federal gold medal match is some of the best factory ammo I have ever shot. I had a Savage 10 fcpk .223 and it was shooting single hole groups without even opening the hole up any with the federal gmm 69 grain bthp. It was insanely accurate and consistent for a factory load
There’s something that just feels right about not putting a scope or optic on these rifles, the way that they were issued and trained to be used. I think that it’s extremely important to learn how to be lethal within a couple hundred yards with iron sights before considering a scope.
I just purchased an M1A standard and it came with a scope mounted. I removed the scope for reasons you expressed in this video. What else can I do to make it relatively accurate. I see you mentioned Glass bedding. I’m not familiar with that process. Thank you God bless
I am currently producing a glass bedding video for this rifle and will also detail the installation of gas tube shims. Those two minor corrections should make this a very accurate rifle.
Great video GB! I thoroughly enjoyed watching you enjoy shooting your M1A SW. I have found that Federal ammo is very consistent in my handguns and rifles. I'm not a Federal fan-boy....just sayin'. Grace & Peace
Always good to see coverage on the standard. Like you said it seems like the majority of videos are about the fancier ones.
I love the standard. The wood stock and the wheel sights r incredible
Yup, I have an M1A standard and did a few videos on it because only the fancy ones were being showcased. Glad I found this video too.
Huge respect to the gentleman for his knowledge, experience and taking his time to do this. One thing you notice with all the test videos on you tube is that the shooters are firing from the bench. I'm certainly not going to say this is wrong (my back and knees thank me when I bench shoot), but realize that when we go up from the prone supported position we are sacrificing stability for convenience, height and speed of target acquisition. This is why we teach and practice shooting fundamentals transitioning from the most stable to the most unstable: prone supported (bags/bipods/slings) - prone unsupported -benched- sitting supported - sitting unsupported - kneeling supported - kneeling unsupported - standing supported and ending with standing unsupported. Undoubtedly the most recoil support , stability (and therefore accuracy) comes from the prone supported position. However, I have never seen anybody demonstrating or testing rifles or ammunition for accuracy actually get the sandbag out and get down on the ground to do it! Again we sacrifice accuracy for convenience. It just is. Every time I watch one of these videos I always wonder how much tighter the groups would be if the shooter actually "got prone" and applied the fundamentals. Remember - the amazing groups done with these rifles in competition matches are all from the prone positions using sandbags, slings, or bipods for stability. Watching this gentleman's shooting I know he would tighten those groups considerably laying flat in the prone and focusing more on position/hold/alignment without all that muzzle jump and cheek weld adjustment we see shot to shot opening up his group results. So to be fair and call a spade a spade - this is really a demonstration of accuracy potential from the third least accurate position. I'm in the same age range as this shooter, so I get it. Heck, with my bad back I even like a nice padded cushion to sit on all day when using a bench, but that also adds to recoil effect with more unstable bounce shot to shot in the end.
Excellent video! When I was shooting match in the 80's, the M1A and M1 were the standard. The AR platform was just coming on to the scene. Almost everyone was shooting the 168gr Sierra Match King over IMR 4895. I still shoot this combo today. Yes, glass bedding is almost a must for accuracy. If you shoot rapid fire as in the matches, you will begin to see signs of pyrolysis (charring) on the stock without glass bedding. Also, changing at least the rear sights to NM helps. New or old, the M1A is a great platform.
I don't comment much on your channel because unfortunately there isn't enough space to write down all that I appreciate about it. I will just say thank you for sharing, I truly enjoy your content.
I got a Springfield M1A for my ex-wife..
That was probably the best trade I’ve ever made!
Appreciate the look at the M1A Standard!
2:07 - Introduction and discussion on M1A Standard
4:21 - Discusses loose rear sight
6:08 - Ammo to be tested
9:10 - Barrel diameter
11:40 - Barrel diameter, length, bayonets (history)
13:50 - Accuracy (history)
15:27 - Thoughts on scope use
16:58 - Stock fit
18:55 - Description of test and conditions
21:35 - IMI 7.62x51 150 gr NATO
21:56 - Discusses trigger pull
24:20 - Discusses barrel mirages
29:02 - IMI 7.62x51 NATO results
29:32 - Federal .308 150 gr Non-Typical Whitetail
33:31 - Federal Whitetail results
34:08 - Softpoint ammo discussion
37:22 - Winchester Super-X .308 150 gr Power-Point
40:38 - Winchester Power-Point results
41:20 - Norma .308 150 gr Soft Point
46:38 - Norma results
47:45 - Sako .308 150 gr Super Hammerhead
52:11 - Sako results
53:30 - Federal .308 175 gr Gold Medal Match
57:10 - Federal Gold Medal results
58:00 - Outro, steel target shooting
Thank you for your service. Sir.
It’s unfortunate that so many firearms companies are on a race to the bottom in quality control . Always enjoy your content. Thank you
I believe if John C Garand were alive today, this video would have put a smile on his face. What a beautiful piece of history and also that was some fine shooting! I'm picking up after a long term hiatus from shooting and going back to the basics to improve my shooting skills. I bought peep sights for my mini-14 and am practicing with that. Your instructional videos have really helped my daughters and I! Thank you for the very nice production of this video! It was a beautiful quality and good sound! 👍
At 55:20 The "Match King" bullet is so devastating that even the wind turned and ran the other way! Ha!
I enjoyed the intro and music as well.
Very relaxing and enjoyable video! Thank you.
Best Wishes from Montana M.H
Nice shooting Sir. Thanks for showing off the abilities of a Standard M1A. Very interesting.
Great to see you again. This summer I'll be trying to do with my M1A what I was able to do back when I first qualified with the M14. I am hoping for a really great summer. Oh, no sloppy sites.
14:01 14:06 😊
Alway enjoy the history and your insight of the firearm at hand… I’m 65 yrs old now & I bought one some time ago from a younger collector who went mote towards the AR platform. I guess I should take it out and fire a couple of rounds down wind like you before it gets to heavy for me to control it…. Thank you for your posting. 😎🌺🤙🏽
Nice intro. Very beautiful there.
Great evaluation! My M1A has been ignored for some years. It’s the standard weight stainless “match” barrel (according to Springfield Armory) with synthetic stock. When I got it, the rifle had the best two stage trigger I’d ever experienced. But it started to double and I sent it back to SA. Not as good now, but OK and safe. I never found great accuracy, but didn’t play with it much. Now that I’m retired it’s time to dig it out. Thanks again for the video! 👍
Check out his videos on shimming the gas tube. Should tighten up your groups.
Mine tripled & Springfield had it for 5 weeks, they returned it repaired with a paper test target and a 2 sentence synopsis.
Yep. I talked only on the phone to Springfield, then sent only the trigger group. The BATFEces has been known to intercept match guns that doubled, then charge the owners with conspiring to manufacture and manufacturing automatic weapons. @@jameswilson1407
It does seem that bayonets and butt strokes were replaced by extended magazine capacity. A short piece of plastic and aluminum just doesn’t have the oomph of a large walnut or beech log with a steel butt plate.
That’s because a bullet wound is much more effective than a smack with a rifle stock.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 When you're out of ammo, a good butt stroke and bayonet is a pretty good ace in the hole.
I’m with you 100%. I’ve got two of these Springfield armory beauties! the first being a standard M1-A & and the Springfield armory SoCom squad rifle. I’m Not much for Scopes and red dots. I can rest my rifle on any hard surface or static surface and hit my target. As long as I can get a good line of sight and a site picture. I’ll drop whatever I’m shooting at. I appreciate your story and you taking the time to share that rifle with us.
Carried and trained 1967 Ft. Beginning,Ga. From Korea 67 to Nam 68 and for awhile in the 1970 509th Abn Mech Infantry, Mainz, Gonsenheim Germany. Then the 16A1. Now I have the M1A in the Socom model with one weird camouflage. Very accurate with iron sights better then 100 yards. Grouped within inch to inch and a half at 100 benched held right firing left support arm elbows on bench table. Not to fond of the new type battery operated digital optics. Had a recon platoon with 11 man sniper squad with the M21 system.3/325 Abn Inf. Thank you for the expert videos. I’m also very fond of the 1911’s 4.25 to 5”.
Welcome home, brother.
Thank you for a wonderful video. Finally at 68 got my own standard walnut, now it's in my hands after decades of that picture of the man holding one off hand in the springfield armory ad.
oh BOY im glad you made a video!
great gun an all ... just not the same when theres no "ping"
Was very pleased to see your Memorial Day video. I salute you for it! Great day at the range and you brought us along for the ride. Nice job with the Federal ammo as I was betting on it performing that way. You are a TH-cam treasure Sir! Best of luck and stay safe.
Thank you, and God bless.
Glad to see you are still at it.
God willing, I'll be persistent in this for some time to come! Thank you and God bless.
Tough man 70shots of308andstill maintain accuracy .hats off to you my friend.excellent content also .thanks for posting
EXCELLENT VIDEO. As good a way to spend Decoration Day as anything else. About 25 years ago, I bought a “loaded” SA M1A. First thing I noted was the lack of USGI parts. Fired the first half dozen rounds and blew the oprod right off the track. Sent it back to SA. It came back with all GI parts and as a much better shooter. About that same time, I picked up two Polytech (chinese) M1A clones. Tossed everything but the receiver and had two very fine shooters built from them by Clint McKee (RIP) of Fulton Armory. Back in those days, one could buy NOS USGI M14 parts from CMP at excellent prices, as well as like new M14 parts kits for $100 - $150 on ebay.
Thanks.
Especially, for the mirage explanation.
Hope your pup dug a hole in the shade.
Love the music. Chris
Beautiful rifle and scenery gunblue. Interesting info as usual!
The optimization of a rifle barrel is intended for a certain round with a military in mine. Where we get into trouble is when we put in a heavier ball and a faster foot per second ammunition. Optimization of the barrel was done to eliminate the weight so a soldier had more energy to fight while carrying this rifle. They calculate the pressures every inch of the length of the barrel and it reduce this diameter of the barrel to about 150% of the required pressure normally it would be over 200%. Many things take into account when you optimize this barrel the vibration of the bullet traversing the barrel and it does make it vibrate the sound vibration of the shot discharging 8,000 ft per second four times the speed of what the bullet comes out the end of the barrel barrel whip which is a result of all these vibrations. So if you're looking for accuracy to go back to the original round that was designed for that barrel won't be perfect but it will be much better than some of the new ammo. The powder is very critical for this rifle that has an optimized barrel faster burning powder puts a lot of pressure and heat back at the breach of the barrel where it is the thickest. The successful load will be down to zero at the end of the barrel when pressure if powder is being burnt after the ball leaves the barrel you're going to lose accuracy. Also a gas operated rifle powder burn rates are very important
In the history of mankind, the US included, burdens of a marching soldier are and always have been the requirement of the individual to bear, without consideration for his fighting stamina. He fights because he must survive, and he has stamina because he has been getting up every morning to run 4 miles before breakfast, and marches 6 miles back and forth to the range with full gear. Stamina is a product of training, muscles, and endurance, not weight reduction of his burden.
Ordnance wasn't in the least concerned when they engineered two consecutive ten pound rifles, and certainly didn't care when the weight of 20 round magazines of 7.62 were added to the mix. Even today, soldiers are packing more in 60 pound rucksacks than they were required to bear in WWII, and they are still required to fight when they arrive. The name Grunt has meaning.
The common belief that military autoloaders are only efficient with ball ammo is entirely a myth, which is proven by competitive shooters who rarely use ball ammo or 150 bullet weights. They have used them all, quite satisfactorily, with trophies to show for it. They pump velocity to the ceiling to reduce flight time and reduce wind effects as much as possible.
Autoloaders are a slave to a certain pressure timing for correct operation, not accuracy. On a given page of a handloading manual for "service loads" that have been laboratory tested in Garands and M1A rifles, dozens of satisfactory loads may be found with all available bullets and many suitable powders. There's no such thing as a one load rifle or magic load.
While a cartridge can be loaded with powders and velocities that provide the correct harmonics for a given bullet in a given barrel design, barrels are not optimized for harmonics. Harmonics occurs with all barrels. The only difference between light and heavy barrel harmonics is the degree of vibration, but both have nodes and overtones that are satisfied with any number of bullets and velocities.
With the correct powder and charge, ammo of any bullet weight and speed can be fired in any barrel of any length and any diameter. Rifling twist is the only limiting factor. Correct harmonics are not isolated to any velocity in the M1A or any other barrel or cartridge. The issue, unmodified Garand and M14 have chalked up countless wins at Camp Perry with competition bullets ranging up to 190 grains; substantially heavier than issue ball ammo. I have great loads in a variety of velocities for various guns. It's just a matter of testing to discover the powder and charge that produces the desired velocity..
@@GunBlue490 Damn well said! You Sir are spot on!!!
Hi another great and informative video. It has been my experience shooting M1A Rifles that they tend to like heavier bullets. I,am NOT surprised the Federal 175 grain match did so well.
Im proud owner of M1A standard rifle two month ago and i have fired rifle two week ago too tight group inch two shot aint apart from that it like together that's incredible accurate as ever i will never regret ever since my FFL dealer international told me that is best decision you make no one else want buy but im proud of you get taste od history battlefield rifle 🤜🤛💪
I have a Tanker version of this rifle. I hope it will become a family heirloom for many many generations. I love this rifle.
Thank you sir.
Great work. As you state, there's no issue with firing jacketed softpoint bullets. The issue is with using CAST LEAD non-jacketed bullets, which will shave lead on the gas port. It happens in the M1 too. The only reason anyone ever did that was to cheap-out on reloading supplies. over time, the gas cylinder and piston will get fouled with shaved lead and the weapon won't function.
Hi, thanks for the video. I miss Benny, I hope he is well. Cheers
Benny is doing well and is enjoying the afternoon with me on the porch while I have a cigar with my Dewars Scotch.
Great video Sir! I was working on my M1A GI model for last six months trying to fit it in Service Rifle match. I have tried different loads and couldn't get a good 5 shot group without a flyer. Situation got changed when I replaced factory recoil spring guide rod with NM Sadlak. My group shrunk by around 35%, and no unexplainable flyers.
My current M1A accuracy is about 2MOA now from prone position. Which is just enough for local Hi Power matches.
That “non typical” ammo seemed to eject in random directions.
The Norma ammo looked to eject very fast.
The IMI did not eject consistently.
The Sako ejected from 2 o’clock to 4 !
The Federal premium ejected from 3 to 4.
Honest review. Many many years ago I traded an M16 for a M14. Never looked back. I've owned and shot many a weapon since then. My favorite being the 1911. Wanted to try a 9mm back when they first became popular and ordered a Smith & Wesson 1911 on 9mm. Waited about 6 months and my dealer called and said they could not find the S&W but found the Springfield Amory Range officer in 9MM. Biggest piece of scrap iron I have ever bought. The extractor was a Just blog of metal, the ejector fell out in the first mag. Jammed the gun up good. Found the ejector was held in with lock tight of some sort in stead of being staked. Dumb. Spent a couple hundred more $ and put all Wilson Combat guts in it. (extractor, spring kit, bushing, disconnect, etc.)Not a bad pistol now, but never again Springfield Amory.
I'll never sell my national match. most iconic rifle I'll ever own
I’m not used to seeing 10 rd mags on the 14, and I’ve got to admit I like it! It almost resembles a Gewehr 43.😎 great video! 👍🏼
They're very practical. The 5 is nice, too, (required for hunting in many states) but it's a bit challenging to snap in.
Thanks for making this video enjoyed watching you shoot and hearing you talk about all the ammo you shot . I had just bought my first M 14 sprinfeild . All the rifles I have owned this is my favorite and best shooting . Wish I would have bought one sooner and not wasted all my money on other rifles . I guess you figure that out with age I'm going on 50 soon . Anyways thanks for the video
There’s a special place in hell for people that put loose sights on rifles.
BTW , That’s some pretty sweet guitar pickin’.
Outstanding video! LOTS of good information. Thanks for your efforts!
Outstanding weapon with a beautiful stock. Welcome back Sir!
Always a pleasure to see and hear from you gunblue. Am I picking up on a few of your dislikes regarding your M1A? 2moa with irons is superb shooting. Thanks for another enjoyable video.
What you correctly picked up is a great dissatisfaction for quality, not type. Sights that wiggle and stocks that rock are entirely unacceptable, given the repeatable precision of investment cast receivers and modern CNC stock inletting equipment. This is no longer 1955, and wood can be inletted to machine tolerances now. If Ruger can turn out tight fitting wood stocks for the Mini-14 that require no epoxy, SA can. Unfortunately, I suspect it's intentional for the reasons I stated. It's a great rifle, and I thoroughly love it, but I know they are deliberately creating a market for scaled upgrades.
@@GunBlue490 Spot on explanation. I can imagine you'll be turning this good rifle into a great one. Observing you bedding your M1A would be a tremendous video.
My gunsmith was in the hundred first Airborne in the early 1960s and had the unique job amongst several, of checking the m-14s for their accuracy. He would usually take 224 rifles of every 100 and test them on a regular basis. According to his tests, he stated he was getting subbed to minute of angle accuracy out of 96% of the rifles he tested. And most of the rest would shoot within 3 in.
He became a Firearms instructor while he was in basic training because he could outshoot his drill instructor. His drill instructor was trying to explain how he was using his sling wrong while he was shooting. And he told the drill instructor that he would listen to him when his drill instructor could outshoot him. He found that he had fired 13 Rounds into the bullseye and immediately tasked him with teaching the people who had never picked up a rifle in their life. My drill instructor had been shooting competition with m-1 garands since he was 13 years old.
44 Hawk. I'm sure that I'm misreading something here, but how could he take 224 of every 100 rifles and test them for accuracy? Surely you meant 100 of every 224?
Nice video; it made me nostalgic about my old Fulton Armory Peerless that I traded off about 11 years ago for an FN SCAR 17S. Wish I would have kept that one.
You won monetarily... But the peerless is more classy.
I’ve been waiting for this since you posted the video about modifying the sight to remove the wiggle.
Now it's a better mourning sir
Of the ones I was paying attention to, the Sako ammo. Most of them between 2:00 and 4:00. That seemed to be pretty good I found that the IMI was either slinging them forward from too much recoil. To sometimes barely getting out of the firearm. That was kind of weird and that second batch that you fired where the one it only came back about a quarter of the bolt throw I have no idea what caused that. Almost to Hang Fire
Great work. I have been putting off getting an M1-A finally. The MOA discussion scared me a bit, and made me consider my motivations. Many voices make them out to be 1000 yd rifles.
All in all though, compared to an M1 Garand, I'm not as big a fan of the 30-06, as the .308. I may still go down the same path. In the end, it's similar to wanting one or several SKS rifles. It's another way to enjoy the hobby/obsession.
Mine is a 1000 yard rifle all day
Always enjoy your videos and the wealth of knowledge you have. Love the content. Keep it coming!
Thanks! Great review. 168gr FGMM is my standard for the M1A. The other great ammo is M852 if you can find it. Basically, the M852 became the 168gr FGMM. Both shoot very much the same accuracy.
Another great video; makes my 3rd one on the M1A. I subscribed on the first video when you took it out of the box. Have the Scout version and also found the 175g Gold Match the most accurate. Love the gun! Thanks for the detailed reviews.
Looks like some pretty country out there. My semi auto .308 has shot the Gold Medal Match 168 grain Sierra Match Kings in very tiny groups right out of the box. I have wanted to come up with my own loads for this one, but these Gold Medal rounds would be hard to beat from my experience.
Great video. Mine also started out as a standard model , hovering around 3moa average with various ammo. After putting it in a Sage EBR Chassis, putting a ss medium weight match barrel, getting a national match reemed flash suppressor, national match sights, nm trigger group and sadlak piston and recoil guide rod, it now shoots right around moa. But that cost about $1,600 in upgrades to make happen
any shims by the gas block?
@@thesanfordmethod1905 I did get shims for it to help with consistency, but after testing I actually found mine to be most consistent without any shims, so at this point there are none
@@DeathWishProject Thanks, also did you get any upgraded springs for it, and that reemed flash hider, does it help with accuracy or just reduce the amount of the chime it rings after every shot? i just bought a SA standard M1A w black synthetic stock and I'm really psyched, even with all these possible issues. :D
Great info, being a nam combat vet with experence with the m16 an m14 carried both plus m60 hog,, of all my choice was the m14 , now not light weight an back then being phased out by m16 they thought I was crazy asking for one but got my wish, took my ammo off the m60 belt I carried 5 or 6 box magazines in claymore mine pouches ,, it had reach out range like the m60 on full auto it would climb Mt Everest , but being the only grunt in the company carring one I'm still here,,as far as acurracy we didn't have time to worry about it in combat situations great weapon with fire power
Raymond Quave After having two failure to fire episodes after going through approximately 1 bandoleer of 5.56 ammo per episode, I also traded in my M-16 to the armory for the M-14. I was an advisor back then in 1970 and could choose which weapon I wanted to carry. The M-14 was heavier and the mags were bulkier, and you couldn't carry as much ammo as the 5.56 allowed, but the reliability of the M-14 was of utmost importance to me. And yes the penetration of the 7.62 round was of great importance to me as well.
Great video. I have a para ordnance m1a. Had it rebarrelled and its a driver at 100-300.
Nice Opening. You brought back memories of Collin's Cotton Mountain Cottages on Little Squam. For plinking with my Scout Squad, I use the Winchester White Box M80 149 gr. and although a bit pricey - it does the job form me. BTW , I took your advice on the Tech Sites for my 10/22 and Mini14 - THANK YOU. Nice Video.
Part of the cost savings is in the lack of QC. I wouldn't complain about that Rifle. That FGMM is an excellent group!
Great shooting Sir!
Thank you. Correct stock to action fit as Ruger does with the wood stocked Mini-14 would have made for a better group. I think it's more intentional than QC.
@@GunBlue490 I have some experience with the M1a. The one I bought is a Polytech with a Walnut stock. I got it for a song, considering it wouldn't hold a group better than 8" O.o
After bedding the stock, unitizing the Gas Valve, and timing the Gas 'nut' to lockup properly, it's a MoA Rifle.
It even has a chrome lined barrel.
The stock fitment concerning forend length on these rifles is paramount as well.
They really are a magical piece of equipment when happy HaHa. :D
@@GunBlue490 I also have a Mini 30 that holds amazing groups. I agree with your assessment of the fit and finish on them.
I forgot to mention proper trigger lockup tension!
Excellent job on the video & discussion …..you remind me of Robert Duval in the original Jack Reacher … 😁👊🏾 keep up the excellent work brother 🤘🏾
In 1970 I personally watched an M21 shoot a ten shot, two inch group at 300meters out of a machine rest. Lake City match, bullets pulled and reseated with 168 SMK International rejects (they were rejected as a reault of air guage testing; the ones that passed were loaded into Winchester virgin brass for the bolt guns). The M21 was sent to Vietnam with others built the same way. That was at FORT BENNING, not long after my first son was born there. I happen to know and stay in touch with one of the snipers who got one of those M21s. The riflemen and the rifles did the job. They made the legends that so many talk about now. Then we come to these days and the rifles sold today. I would not stir a bucket of paint with a NEW rifle that could not do better than "about" three inches at 100 yards. About a year ago that same old sniper, now in his 70s, has shot better than 2 inches with my slap together M-1 and TW 69 M2 Ball fresh out of the bandolier. I think I'll stay with the M1.
Great video! Always enjoying them. I know that Federal and Springfield have a relationship. Hence maybe that's why the last group was so good... been using their ammunition in all my Springfields. Not a bum in the lot. Thank you sir for the video and looking forward to your next one.
Let's give the 175-grain cartridge a round of applause. Now we're talkin' !
Excellent shooting as always! Did you decide to glass bed the rifle, and if you had, did you see much improvement at the range. I picked up a standard and unfortunately my AR10 is leaving it behind in the accuracy department.
Thank you. I may bed it some day, and I'm sure it will show some degree of improvement if I do. As I mentioned in the video, the M14 was designed to satisfy the long standing 4 MOA military requirement that was no different than the battle rifle accuracy requirement for its predecessor or its successor. Despite its legendary status that grows fonder in the memory of US veterans, it was not an accurate rifle by modern standards, and it shouldn't be expected to measure to such standards. Most folks buy it for nostalgic and sentimental reasons that have little to do with accuracy.
If I could meet 1 gun guy on TH-cam you sir are in the top 3 and my number 1 for the history.
I really enjoyed the video of the savage 99.
Would love to shoot and swap stories with you some day.
love NH, greatings from the Northeast. The snow on Mt Washington. Love it, know it all too well!!!
Thank you for this episode As I think the m-14 is one of the greatest rifles ever made … Hopefully you can get ahold of a 1941 Johnson I’m sure your itching to take one to the range ….it and the LMG version were designed by a Marine and the Marines really liked his rifles
Respect the veterans. My dad was merchant marine in ww2 and several friends in korea and vietnam. Thanks for doing this video. Would the national match be a good way to go ? Love your videos and info. Baby oil for gun oil is a tip i had never heard.
Love your channel!!
Curious about where you are shooting, private ,public, people riding through?
We share God's gifts in NH. Many of our back roads are privately owned and graciously open for use. Posted land is very uncommon here, and when such a sign is tacked up, it's generally for a genuinely good reason.
I’ve recently been getting my Springfield NM out more often. The best I got with that is a 2.6” 5 shot group at 250 yards but not sure if I could do it again. Also I color filled the sight with crayon as per a previous vid
Update on the pup please!
Awesome!
great content. thank you for the review.
I have an LRB M14SA standard with USGI standard sights. The rear sight has play like you described. I have 2k rounds through it and it is a 2MOA rifle using the iron sights of course. I have qualified as rifleman at Appleseed marksman clinics using the Army AQT targets with this rifle using iron sights. That is under timed conditions, with reloading magazines in mid stage, shooting offhand, sitting, and prone, and requires at least 4MOA to achieve sufficient accuracy to score passing. The play in the sights worried me when I recieved the rifle, but it's performance dispelled my doubts.
Excellent video. I always enjoy them because of your expertise. There were a couple of descriptive text that appeared on the screen. Would you consider leaving them on screen a few seconds longer. I couldn't read them completely before they disappeared. I'm interested in knowing what you had to say with those messages.
Thanks for the informative videos. Always a pleasure to watch.
The m14 i trained with in 2009 was tight fitting. It also had decent iron sights. Our rifles hadnt been built yet and i got my replacement after training but i carried it through the mountains and loved it, all 12 1/2 pounds of it.
Not sure what tool you needed to drop the action out but i use my hands.
Very thorough! Thank you Sir
As always a very informative and eloquent presentation. Do you happen to know a good Garand smith in the Central Texas area? I think I have a timing issue with a M1 Garand. Thank you for your videos!
I'm in New Hampshire, so I've no information that can help you. I would call the Civilian Marksmanship Program Store at 256-835-8455. The CMP sells refurbished Garands and someone there should have information to help you.
"Timing"? I'm not sure what you are referring to. I know that some folks refer to the hesitancy of the bolt to release when the en blok clip is inserted as timing. In general, Garands simply require new replacement parts when they start having issues. Be sure to check for a bent operating rod, and never use high pressure factory commercial ammo. Standard 30-06 ammo off the shelf is far too hot. Only military service ammo or equivalent pressure handloads.
Great content on the m1a. Using lake city bulk I get very consistent ES and SD.
Mine also being a standard model, my rear sight did not have the play that yours showed in a previous video but am glad to have seen your fix for a reference.
Sometime in the mid 90’s Springfield ran out of USGI parts to build new M1A’s. Seems ever since then things have gone down hill. I somehow got incredibly lucky and got one made in 88 unshot. It’s the standard M1A with the walnut stock but it’s fitted immaculately and it’s wildly accurate with just irons.
I've always wanted an M1A just because of how it looks. Now that my son and I have gotten into deer hunting and possibly black bear hunting, I'm really looking into this rifle as a kind of do it all rifle. What are your thoughts on that? I know the .308 is a good whitetail deer round and have been told it's good for bear as well. I feel this rifle could handle business if I were to ever need it in a crisis situation...
Thanks for posting this review I was dead set on picking up a Springfield either standard or the loaded version then I found a company that produces some nice rifles namely Bula defense all their variants have forged intervals rather than cast like Springfield uses granted you pay for that but unfortunately they only have a year warranty compared to Springfields lifetime warranty I’ll probably go Springfield dud to the warranty alone
Thanks for the video and your service.
A lot of research went into making the M14 lighter after soldiers that carried the M1 said that they would like a rifle that was not so heavy. They managed to get a 20 round detachable magazine but about the same weight.
What year model is that M1A, they were not supposed to have 308 ran out of them, at least not the early ones from seventies through early 90’s, every one I had by the owners manual and barrel stamp was 762.51, I’ve heard the latest generations run both.
My M1a manual says the same thing even though my barrel is stamped 308. It's from the late 2000's. I think the manual that comes with the gun is just a old reprint for collectors sake. In reality it should run 308 or 7.62x51, it's more dependent on how the cartage was loaded. I think the reason why it says to run only 7.62x51 originally is just to avoid liability in case someone got some hot 308 loads with really heavy bullets and ends up causing damage to the gun. It's the same thing with M1's warning people not to use hot loaded commercial 3006. If you want to 100% replicate what it was tested with back in the day then you need 7.62x51 sized brass, make sure your only using 147gr .307 bullets (yes .307 not .308), and always with milspec primers. But, that's something that I don't even see in commercially labeled 7.62x51 ammo.
Read the owner’s manual for the rifle or contact SA customer service if in doubt. SA M1A rifles were/are designed to shoot either SAAMI spec .308 Winchester or 7.62x51 mm NATO. The early model rifles were marked 7.62 on the receivers. This changed in the 1990s, but they were still fine to fire .308 ammunition.
There are two issues here. One is that military spec 7.62 ammo has hard primers. Some commercial .308 has softer primers. Chambering a round causes the firing pin to hit the primer causing a slight impact crater. If the primer is too soft the round could fire, aka slam fire. This has been known to happen but is not very common. This issue can also happen in AR15 pattern rifles, again very uncommon. NATO 7.62 is less susceptible due to their hard primers. So always observe the cardinal rules of forearms safety and keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. This is true regardless of the ammo used.
The second issue is that the chamber specs are different between .308 and 7.62. SAAMI sets the specs for .308. These dimensions are less than what is allowed for military 7.62 chambers which allow for longer chambers. There is an overlap. SA builds the M1A with chambers cut in the mid range where .308 and 7.62 overlap which is why both cam be fired in the M1A.
If you are unsure have a gunsmith check the headspace on your rifle to make sure it is in that mid range and hence safe to shoot either round. Some specialty houses make M14 clones closely copied from the M14 and for those it might be specified by the manufacturer to shoot only NATO spec 7.62.
Suffice it to say many shooters have fired lots of .308 Winchester safely in their SA M1A rifles.
@@jamesjohnson4159 damn Lotta info.. so 308 thru m1a
762 thru m14
That's basically what you said?
But both models shoot both? Depending on if the chamber can fit the cartridge due to overlaping lengths?
Did I get that right?
Plus primer issues depending on rifle model too?
This rifle, and the manual that accompanied it, give it a .308 rating. A .308 Winchester chambering can always safely fire both, just as a 5.56 NATO can always safely fire .223 Remington ammo. Slam fires can occur when a bolt falls on a previously chambered single fed round, which is true with the Garand or M14/M1A. All rounds should be stripped from a magazine to prevent slam fires before bolt lockup.
@@KurticeYZreacts I made a long reply to your questions but it’s been deleted by someone. Sorry. I’m not going to repeat it all. In summary:
1. The SA M1A is made with a .308 chamber. You can shoot any quality commercial .308 ammo that’s made to SAAMI specs and any 7.62 x 51 NATO spec ammo.
2. If you have an M1A or M14 clone chambered for 7.62 x 51 from another manufacturer check the owner’s manual or better yet contact the manufacturer for their ammo recommendations.
3. Slam fires are possible with any rifle which has a fire floating firing pin. Including all the rifles in the M1A family including the M1 Garand, the M14, the M1A and their clones. It’s also possible in the M16/AR15 family of rifles. Quality SAAMI spec .308 ammo or NATO spec 7.62 should not be a problem.
The possibility increases if you single load one round into the chamber by hand and then let the bolt slam forward. In that instance the bolt velocity is much higher because the bolt is not being slowed down by stripping a round from the magazine. This will give a harder primer strike which causes the slam fire. So best practice is to chamber from the magazine. If you do load one in the chamber by hand the way to decrease the chance of a slam fire is to release the bolt slowly. Once it’s at about 1/2 closed then let the bolt go. This will result in a lower bolt velocity more akin to the velocity when chambering from a magazine.
4. Make sure you understand there is .308 ammo and 7.62 ammo. There is also a .308 spec chamber (SAAMI spec) , and a Military 7.62 chamber. 7.62 and .308 ammo is essentially the same length, so either chambers just fine. However the chambers can be different. The Military spec 7.62 chamber can be longer. So the issue is not caused by the ammo per se as much as with the chamber length and head space.
So as a rule it’s fine to shoot either .308 or 7.62 NATO spec ammo in an M1A with a .308 chamber. The safety issue arises in shooting some .308 ammo in a rifle with a 7.62 chamber. If the chamber is cut longer, as the 7.62 chamber spec allows, and the head space is greater then after firing the case can push back more and expand so the case is not fully supported at the rear. This can allow the case to bulge or even for the case head to separate leading to extraction failure. As long as the bolt was fully closed so there is no out of battery detonation this case separation typically shouldn't cause injury to the shooter. It just results in a cycling malfunction.
7.62 NATO spec ammo cases are thicker at the base (the web) and so less likely to separate. Some .308 ammo has thinner cases. That’s why some manufacturers of rifles with a 7.62 chamber say to only shoot NATO spec 7.62 ammo. Shooting some of this weaker case .308 in a long cut 7.62 chamber can result in case head separation. It shouldn’t be a problem with quality commercial .308 made to SAAMI specs but there is lower quality ammo out there. To be safe shoot what the rifle manufacturer says.
5:33 i think you're hitting the nail on the head. My standard rear sight is wonky too an barrel definitely needs bedding!
Just saw this video . M14 and the P51 always get my attention. I see a short barrel stabilizer on your stock unit and your getting the acceptable MOA. Could you achieve exceptional MOA with a longer stabilizer? Like to see a field swap on the range comparison.
My Standard M1a, circa 1995 made shoots standard M80 ball 1.5" groups at 100 yrds. My handloads with imr4064 and a Sierra 168 grn. Match shoot 1" groups all day long. Guess I got a good one!
Off topic I know but the recent popularity of subsonic ammunition makes me wonder if we are seeing a return to the cartridges of yesteryear, at least performance wise. I am thinking of the 45-70, 32-20, 25-20, 38-55 all the way down to the 22 short which is being replaced by subsonic LR. Some of the modern cartridges are moving the emphasis away from velocity, the 6 mm ARC for example.
Would love to hear your thoughts on this topic.
Cowboy shooting has enjoyed a resurgence in interest with low velocity antique cartridges, and there has always been an interest in .22 shorts and 45-70 and such, but they represent a very small segment of ammo production and guns chambered for them, overall.
Sorry to blow up your channel but dont they offer heavier barrels for the M1A? I always thought they offered everything from ,light to medium and heavy barrels for the M1A? NO?
I love your videos guy keep them coming I am subscribed by the way
Thank you. I'll do my best!
@@GunBlue490 I have a ground squirrel problem in the orchard at the ranch I am caretaker of it is the historical Clyde Ranch I'm in the middle of a canyon in the middle of nowhere in Southern California and I was wanting to get rid of those ground squirrels they are bad for the apple trees and I thought of 17 WSM but your suggestion on that and and comments and things to think about made me go with the 22 to 50 that way I could just set in the yard and shoot at them out in the orchard probably $250 yd sometimes I like Savage rifles mainly because of the trigger and I don't need a short barrel because I'll just be sitting there anyway with your expertise I respect what you think say and do what would you suggest in 22 to 50 if you don't mind my asking sir
That Federal Match 175 gr is good stuff. I shoot it out of a FN PBR and it prints 1/2 MOA @100 yds. I know we are talking about the M1A which I have several. I've handloaded Sierra 168's and shot 3/4 MOA 5 shot groups out of a Match rifle (Iving, TX gun). Anyway, thanks for talking about the Std rifle which I also own.
I've had one M1A with wood stock and another with composite stock. I believe the composite stock is better bedded for tighter shot groups
Thanks for the video and the knowledge!
Went through basic at Fort Leonard Wood, September, October 1968. Last cycle to be issued the M14. Seemed like a lot of bayonet training. Great rifle!
Yep, I was spring of 69, M-16.
In 1966 at Fort Polk I zeroed (1, 000 inch range my well-used M-14 with standard issue ammo and had 6 rounds in the black ( have photo) if interested) That was in August In Lousiana - plenty of heat and humidity.
The federal gold medal match is some of the best factory ammo I have ever shot. I had a Savage 10 fcpk .223 and it was shooting single hole groups without even opening the hole up any with the federal gmm 69 grain bthp. It was insanely accurate and consistent for a factory load
There’s something that just feels right about not putting a scope or optic on these rifles, the way that they were issued and trained to be used. I think that it’s extremely important to learn how to be lethal within a couple hundred yards with iron sights before considering a scope.
I just purchased an M1A standard and it came with a scope mounted. I removed the scope for reasons you expressed in this video. What else can I do to make it relatively accurate. I see you mentioned Glass bedding. I’m not familiar with that process. Thank you God bless
I am currently producing a glass bedding video for this rifle and will also detail the installation of gas tube shims. Those two minor corrections should make this a very accurate rifle.
Install a National Match guide rod, that helps a lot. Free-float the barrel, too, if it isn't yet that way.
Yep, my M1A Loaded came with the same sloppy rear sight. I replaced the pseudo NM aperture with a real hooded NM sight.
Great video GB! I thoroughly enjoyed watching you enjoy shooting your M1A SW. I have found that Federal ammo is very consistent in my handguns and rifles. I'm not a Federal fan-boy....just sayin'. Grace & Peace