Bretonnia Unit Roster Tier Ranking
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- Tier list of all Bretonnia units recruited in Total War: Warhammer 2 excluding regiments of renown, heroes, and lords. Check out link below to post your own ranking of the Bretonnia roster.
tiermaker.com/create/total-wa...
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0:00 Intro
1:58 Melee Infantry
10:06 Archers
14:30 Cavalry
30:40 Artillery
Please note this is an unofficial video and is not endorsed by SEGA or the Creative Assembly in any way. For more information on Total War, please visit www.totalwar.com - เกม
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Bretonnia, a medieval france faction in a world with minigun weilding rats and Lizards ridings Dinosaurs
Add to that their neighbors with tanks, guns and rocket batterys + their other friends over seas and mountains with helicopters, magic archers and dragons.
Horses go neigh neigh
Hulking lizards twice the size of a peasant
They are more like a medieval arturian chivalry faction with a french accent thrown in for immersion
Bretonnian Cave men.
The treasures at sea can provide with battles at sea for the Questing Vow.
Those vow are shit, change my mind.
@@supremepatriarchbalthasarg474 i won't. They are shit
I hate getting questing vow with a passion. Usually just use AI lords where the vows are all unlocked.
That's how I usually do it.
They can also be used as vampires to get bloody kisses.
"Don't use your peasant to hold the line. These poor useless men will die! That's a job only fit for your knights and lords."
Truly, Legend is an example as a bretonnian noble.
A true knight leads by example! Besides, close quarters is where the best killin' happens! *jumps headlong into a mob of Orcs, screaming in French*
Knights are supposed to protect the weak or something, peasants sure are weak.
@@1Flyffer1 debatable how much Bretonnian knights are supposed to protect their peasants, but they sure as shit are supposed to kill The Lady's enemies- so why not get stuck in?
Tips: when u select peasants and men-at-arms, they litterally say: "ready to lose"
@@benoitcoeurdelion8001 No they don't, peasant bowmen say "ready to loose," loose being a term for shooting an arrow.
"You can reduce the cost of royal hyppo knights by building beast resources. Most of those are in Lustria, though." - Alberic moved to the jungle disaster campaign flashbacks.
Ulthuan has a couple and it is closer. Also Hell pit and Clar Karond have beasts
@@torquevonthorne948 It's hilarious to me to consider Hell pit and Clar Karond when talking about Bretonnian upkeep cost. "Yeah, just travel across the entire fucking map to gain some of that reduced upkeep!"
@@starcraft2own Never played Bretonnia but I'm doing it with Broken Axe: greenskins exotic animals building reduce upkeep cost of squigs. With some mushroom addicted (trait) heroes and some of those "mushroom farms" Skarsnik can have the cheapest hard-hitting squig hoppers.
@@torquevonthorne948 Hah, Skarsnik has an arguably longer trip to these locations than bretonnia. But their starting location is a lot more defended from attacks on all sides, making the trip less dangerous.
People really do care about those beastiaries, huh?
Haha.. all for those squig hoppers!
@@starcraft2own 107 speed
32 weapon strenght
80 charge bonus
becoming U N S T O P P A B L E
(confederated Skarsnik, Broken Axe starts in Massif Orcal and playing as them you are forced to conquer Ulthuan so no big deal)
Legend: *puts all melee Bretonnia infantry in the trash*
Me from my Hippogryph: WE HAVE MELEE INFANTRY?
Had, they're gone now, don't worry about it, hehehe. (this joke is more along the lines of, the infantry break or die so fast you forget them entirely, I'm sorry if this explanation wasn't needed, but I'm not exactly the best at jokes, or other people don't get said joke unless explained)
Bretonnia in lore: a lot of peasants and few knights.
Bretonnia in TW:W2: a horde of knights and few peasants
That's because they thought it was a good idea to give Bretonnia a peasant limit
@@RoulicisThe but there is no supply lines for them. Funny enough skavens also shouldn't have them or at least have technology for zero upkeep for skaven slaves or clanrats.
Though we have 0 upkeep Clanrats via Plague priests.
Bretonnia as AI in TW:W2: a horde of peasants wanting to be knights
@@dementois-507 at least you have free targeting practice as Ikit or High Elves.
@@user-xj6rc5sd2p Don't forget Belegar, Carcasonne is a good province for dwarfs to have and the Fey enchantress defeat trait is always good
You should do a video where you compare all the S tier/doomstack units
he has a top 5 doomstacks video
@@erensametkaratas6593 yeah but it would be cool to compare the individual units
@@erensametkaratas6593 it's also a little outdated now I believe.
Very cool idea!
@@AsianBinLaden Not much. Since then, basically no other doomstack worthy unit was added. Mammoths are still n1. The only thing that can change that is if you can make a doomstack out of greater demons in Wh3.
I like to put a grail reliqaue in each army because I think they're hilarious.
And because you hope your enemy will die of laughter when he sees them?
@@Gibsoncheg They would maybe be good on normal if their buff was army-wide.
But it isn't, so I can fit three units of peasants under that aura, at most, if I want any army width. And that is just straight up bad, even on normal.
Same haha. The animation of them "galloping" gets me every time. Ultimate Monty Python vibes.
He has done a video where someone sent in a crapstack of grail reliques. He almost died of boredom.
It's funny that the qualifiers Legend gives at the beginning gets longer each time because people can't wrap their head around the fact that the rankings are based on very hard battle difficulty.
its also funny that sometimes he judges them based on the lord they're used with, and sometimes he just judges them vanilla.
He mentions it every time and explains why
Why do they find it so hard to understand(pun intended)
But don't you enjoy playing on normal battle difficulty with self-imposed unit caps and a superiority complex?
@@obi-wan3916 If I would play normal I would go a Peasent mob doomstack.
Imperial army tactics, overwhelm them with numbers
@@Harbyz But warhammer fantasy already has imperial guard....
🔭🐀
The philosophical question of "what type of unit is the grail reliquae? I know where i'm gonna put it just not when." was my favorite part of the video.
I think it needs mentioning when talking about the brettonian economy that the one time you DON'T build farms is in a settlement with a gold mine or Iron mine. For some reason gold and iron alone are classed as industry, so get -100% from the top tier farm. On the plus side, they get buffed by buildings and tech that buffs industry.
That’s very interesting! I did not know that.
Also buffed by the industry support building. Minor settlements with Gold and industry building makes like 2k gold alone.
a code leftover from rome2 and attila, back then main city building gave you subsistance income, farms gave you husbandry; agriculture and fertility, markets gave you trade, ports gave you maritime trade and workshops gave you industry income.
As someone who very very rarely plays Bretonnia, this is incredibly useful information, so thank you!
@@MrFallenone 2k gold? They make over 3k
Foot Squires is already sweating 5 Seconds into the Video.
I wish the Bretonnian Peasant Archers could deploy stakes infront of them during the deployment phase. It would be just that little thing that makes them stand out from other archers in the game, and it could potentially synergize with the Bretonnia's cav heavy playstyle.
I don't think that would synergize with cavalry at all. Every time I use stakes in Medieval 2, I forget about them and accidentally charge my own cavalry into them trying to defend my archers. Always hurt my own units with stakes more than the enemy.
@@Jacob-ge1py skill issue
In the old Warhammer Fantasy game I used to play Brets and their archers actually could deploy stakes from what I recall. (it's been decades now) The kit came with stakes.
It amazes me that even though LoTW specifies this from a legendary difficulty perspective in every video, people still whinge about how on normal difficulty things are different.
Some people simply cannot handle criticism of things they like, no matter how tactfully the criticism is delivered
because normal lives matter
irony is, a lot of units which are under trash in those tier lists, are pretty much under trash under normal diff. as well... not all, but a good chunk of them for sure
Ofcourse they do, when people come in to the warhammer forum and complain about how melee units are useless, and they use legends videos as proof. Most people don't play on vh and legendary because they feel it ruins the game ballance. So it is good that legend remind everyone how things are.
I play on Normal difficultly exclusively and I find these super useful, because Normal is mellow enough that figuring out what really works is hard to do.
Bretonnia finally, I've been waiting for this.
Me too, will all cav be trash? Will it get a cav doomstack? Who knows
@@lordmaur180 people who watch previous videos/streams knows :D
The only bad thing about these videos is that we're going to run out factions 🤣
But then he can just do all the lords and heroes afterwards
@@Joshua-yf5mh and building tier lists
Game 3 is coming up thankfully
@@Joshua-yf5mh heroes would be great as it can get a little confusing as to which ones to use and when.
We definitely need a tier list of the true horrors. Grail Relique, Dreadknights, DeckDroppers, who’s really the trashiest of the below trash tier.
I would love a crap stack tier list
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 not if the reliquae blob up
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 i actually think it would loose, because 19 bloaty boys explosions might deal more than grail reliquery health pool xD
@@pimpdaddyg2081
Crapstacks are actually supposed to be reasonably effective, despite being cheap and low quality, though. Skeletons are a weird exception where the crapstack is also the doomstack.
Good goldfish poop armies that follow real armies and such.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 skeletons are just front line tho, dmg comes from magic
Bretonnian infantry's weak cuz they lack the Sigmar mindset
Sigmar is trash
All hail Ulric!
Sigmar male
Really the Empire is just mechanically better than Bretonnia in terms of unit power, short of Hippos that just barely out-trade demis. I’d really like to see that rectified but it never will be.
Tru
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 dude all the blessings in the world can’t make peasant mobs good. I mean late game with all the tech they’re around the same as men at arms
Since the grail reliquae is a trio of madlads bringing around a corpse, and corpse carts are considered chariots, I'd say it is a chariot.
Pegasus knights should require questing vow insted of knight's. In every single siege of Couronne the trebuchets are gonna friendly fire on them and send them to meet the Lady, so it makes sense.
Blessed Trebuchets don't friendly fire at least. It's their special trait besides doing magic damage.
@@svenvictory The explosions the Blessed Trebuchets cause will not inflict friendly fire, but the impact damage of their projectiles will still cause damage to friendlies. So if a pegasus knight gets a pot of holy water smashed into his face he will still likely die, its just the explosion wont hurt his fellows.
Same applies to those special mortar units empire gets from the elector counts system. Explosion wont cause friendly fire, but if the actual ball being shot lands on a dude they gonna die.
Slow chariot with no charge bonus. :D At the very least it should make infantry unbreakable. Immune to psych is kinda meh.
@@Greyknight1575 and because that shots ar magical and armor piercing they can destroy even ghost units like sirens because they negate their physical resistance.
I really hate that we don't have a grail reliquae chariot, it would be a great addition,bonus points if the current model is just put on a little platform pulled by armored horses
Don't worry about the people bitching about rateing only on very hard, I play on normal normal and by using some of your advice I have vastly improved my gameplay and learned querks about factions I never realized before thanks to you
It (playing on normal or easy) doesn't even really change the value of units, it just removes "F Tier" and bumps those up to "C Tier" beyond things like the Grail Relique
Same, the synergies apply on normal as well. I never realised that healing zombies as VC is inefficient when they have so much hp. Or which shades to get. Or why there's differnt types of goblin cav. And I thought of Grail Guardians as upgraded Questing Knights bc both have greatswords, but didn't look at the stats to see that melee def.
Same, I play normal because I enjoy it at that, but his advice is always spot on to getting better results.
Yeah, the stuff that's good on Very Hard doesn't get worse on Normal, they remain really good.
The stuff that is garbage on Very Hard is only rarely really good on Normal, and is instead just fine. Exceptions exist, mostly for melee infantry with stats right around a major swing point, like Temple Guard, which go from trash melee infantry in Very Hard, to absolute hardass butchers in Normal. But those are exceptions, most of them are still worse than the things that are good on Very Hard.
idea: once you've finished all races, make a list containing only D, E, and F tiers and rank all the units from each race that you put in trash tier to find who among the trash is the trashiest, and who is the closest to escaping from the trash tier
He already does that in each video, he placed the grail relique or deck dropper even below the trash tier and he sometimes places units on the trash tier but hesitates and gives it a trash + sort of tier. I agree that it could be fun, but it wouldn't really bring anything new to the table
I kinda do like the idea of seeing Legend flustered and seriously trying to look at pieces of shit and decide which is more or less shitty lol
I second this, i need a concise video with the title "Trashiest of trash units" and the trashiest of trash units, then have LOT save a campaign disaster using nothing but those trash units
Wouldn't this and the 'compare all the units you rated highly' counterpart just basically turn into the videos he made a couple of years ago labeled:
"Units you should recruits for each faction" / "units you should never recruits for each faction"
"but what about protecting the ranged units? Without melee units support they will die"
"It seems you have answered your own question"
The fact that all but 1 of the bretonnian melee infantry units have the "expendable" trait really shows their quality
Ok, so Bretonnia is my favorite faction and I have played them extensively on very hard/very hard. I've developed some strategies that include a few of the units that have been noted as being weaker or total trash in this video. The strats seem to work ok from some testing I've done on Legendary/very hard, but I admit that it is slightly harder to pull off due to ai experience turbo gain.
The first unit I'd like to highlight is the humble Peasants. I have found them to be extremely useful in certain scenarios. Most helpful early game, but surprisingly decent as the game progresses.
#1. Cost effectiveness. They have 0 upkeep cost, provided one maintains the peasant economy. Also, their recruit cost is negligible, starting at measly 20 gold. With technologies and some lord skill boosting, they can far outperform their gold cost. They allow a tar pit strategy to give one's cavalry and ranged units time to do their work. Yes, a few peasants cannot hold a line. What about 20+ peasant units double or triple stacked? Think skeleton spam for Vampire Counts.
#2. Unique speed. Even considering how quickly they sustain casualties, they replenish between battles faster than so many other units in the game. Strangely, they seem bugged sometimes where they gain tons of experience faster than any other unit in the roster. They also boast the same movement speed as Bretonnian Peasant Archers at a standard value of 33. Other infantry for brets suffer at 30, and 28 in the case of Foot Squires.
#3. Surprising effectiveness. It astounds me that as often as the deathball tactic is used by certain folks, that similar tactics haven't been explored with Bretonnia. In my testing, I've found that layering several peasant units tightly on top of one another, they function like a decent wall. Given the cost and ease of recruitment, these units can simply be sprinkled in to cover archers and Trebuchets in a pinch. I've found such deployment able to give cavalry units enough time to get where they need to be in combined arms armies. Also, once certain technologies are researched, peasants fight about as well as men-at-arms. Though not amazing, it's decent considering how easy it is to recruit them en masse. Late game, the armor bonus stacking from the upgraded armory building and plenty of redundant lords with skills dedicated to peasants, they can end up being almost tanky.
#4. The biggest reason I bring all of this up, I have not yet seen anyone use the recruitment pool effectively via online content. For example, say you're at pesant economy max. For use on the next turn, Peasants can be recruited above that cap as much as local/global capacity will allow. The upkeep cost and negative impact of going above the economy limit will not go into effect until one of two situations. 1) you end a turn while being over the limit. 2) your peasant limit is brought down so that you are over the limit during the end turn (like say, losing a settlement). This effectively means that you have a dirt cheap conscript unit anywhere needed, where one has at least 1 farm building in a nearby province. This is limited in numbers only by the local/global recruitment, and all for a nominal fee. The only requirement is to recruit each turn needed, then disband any leftover peasants after battles etc. All to do it over again next turn, and so on. This is excellent for farming rebellions, and can be used to help quickly level lords with a battle every turn, if one desires. It also allows for extra meatshields for front line engagements, provided the fighting is happening close enough to one's territory. This repeated hiring and use of many peasants makes the Recruiter and Low-Born traits easy to obtain early in a campaign, if desired.
#5. If there are any regions that one is having public order problems at, peasants can help. Provided the peasant class units aren't needed elsewhere for battles, any spare capacity can be used to give additional control as needed. Since Bretonnia doesn't suffer from supply line penalties, one may simply hire a lord to help control public order. Extra unneeded peasant capacity can be used to give this control lord(or lady) extra control, provided this "army" is sitting inside the settlement. For the upkeep of a lord, tons of extra control can be given wherever needed. This also give a trickle of xp to such babysitting lords/ladies, all the more opportunities for additional Toll Keeper followers, always so nice!
Doing a Fay Enchantress immortals empires game right now and i am definitely appreciating the zero upkeep of peasants and the zero supply lines that the race get.
to me Bretonia fells like its missing something. something unique to them, like unique spells or units
I agree. Maybe it could be an extra vow that would catapult their heroes and lords into doom stack status.
I think their economy and vow system give them enough distinction, along with their extensive and powerful cavalry. They're certainly distinct from the the Empire as well as what we've seen of the other WH3 humans.
All of the uniqueness is on the campaign. Unfortunately it also serves to hamstring them and screw them over while their neighbours have stacks of miniguns and jezzails by turn 15.
You want to make them more french? Make them have peasantery strikes!
More british? Give them an option to puppet factions when you conquer their settlements, but soaking their special ressources for yourself while still letting them think it is a fair deal!
maybe some unique Holly spells ,even unique resurrection spells, Grail magic , temporal invulnerability...something
The best army after a hypogriff doomstack is a lord, life mage 1 or 2 paladins and the rest a 50/50 split of grail guardians and royal pegasus knights. grail guardians hit head on while the pegasus knights fly over and rear charge. Most enemy armies almost get a full route straight away. Royal pegasus and dwellers below destroy sieges so its amazing at everything. Super fast, perfect vigour and deletes everything. Possibly the strongest army in the game that isn't a monster doomstack.
maybe add one or two hippogryphs knights for the terror and fear to help them rout
brettonia can snowball all of their units out of control pretty quickly if you stack the armoury building though either way. you get +2 armour for all armies per building as well as +10 melee defense and armour for local defending armies making your crap piles of peasants garrisoning a town too armored for AI to deal with the further you get into the campaign
Grail Guardians are not necessary, and in fact, would perform worse for their cost. You would be best served by all Questing Knights. Both as the anvil & hammer, or a mix of Questing Knights & Knights of the Realm. QK has decent melee def for cav, and very high AP, decent charge & armor. When they slam into enemies they do lots of dmg.
Nah, lord on griffon 1-2 damsels with life/heavens 17 paladins is far stronger and can take settlements easy with siege attacker
@@richardmoon3745 Paladins have a cap tho, and eventually u need armies that use regular non-hero units.
"Only works on very hard battle difficulty"
Yeah, makes sense. I play on lower difficulty and always keep a grail relequae to keep my units from routing. On higher difficulty I imagine that's completely worthless.
Probably all it would do is make your comparatively weak as shit infantry stick around to die a little longer lol
They're kinda bad even on normal, because the aura can affect maybe 3 units at best if you deploy in a line.
We call units like the reliquary a “sh*t shiner”
@@kubaGR8 then why would you deploy in a line? Man some people just do not understand how to use troops in this game
@@kurosakiichigo7475 What, like you have a clue?
Melee infantry: Trash
Cavalry: S tier
S tier for calvalry, a B tier unit type
In other words: peasants are trash, noblemen are worthy. Efficiency in the battlefield seems what justify bretonnian society structure.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 turn 200: fully plated armor on top of a full plate armor peasant
I wonder why some units have the "Anti-Infantry" trait when they dont actualy have anti infantry bonus. I know those are just traits for casual or new players to distinguish the units and what they are good for quickly. But after 900+ hours im just now noticing the anti infantry trait doesnt mean anti infantry bonus dmg in weapon strenght...
It's when they attack faster, have higher armor, or higher melee defense. Things that help them last in a blob so they trade better against enemy infantry. Grail Guardians can also pick up like 20% damage resistance from technology research and the Bretonnia Blessing of the Lady mechanic. Their role is to hold the enemy in place while other units cycle charge.
Another reason why (you can see if you hover over the anti infantry trait) is because they have high mass, and are very good at rearcharging infantry and brute forcing a break in the line. So something like a monster with a good animation or cavalry with high mass will have it even without direct combat stats
I would say it's because there is another same tipe of unit but dedicated vs large. Like in the case of the grail knights. I mean if you want one of them sitting still vs infantry you want the guardians to do that.
Some units have higher attack speed, as said above, (e.g Dryads, Nasty skulkers, Nehekara warriors, etc) and some have bigger splash damage (i.e hitting more entities with one attack) making them deal more damage. The Grail guardians fall in the latter category.
Because Grail guardians are recruited from a useful building (+1 recruit lord rank), have higher hitpoints than Grail knights (better synergy with life magic) and splash damage, they definitely belong to A tier.
Best ignore the tool tips altogether. with spells and units they’re often completely wrong. Some overworked dev hastily typed it up to reach a deadline 3-4 years ago and they forgot about it.
Just make a giant splash page at the start that says "THIS IS FOR VERY HARD BATTLE DIFFICULT, EVERYTHING ON NORMAL DIFFICULTY IS A B TIER" - still won't work, but it'd make me laugh.
seriously I feel bad that Legend has to explain this every single time so people don't get angry with him.
This is the one I've been waiting for thanks legend
Love the commentary on these. Really fun to listen to. I love how these build out your content catalog. It's a nice option for low time commit, very useful and different from the utility of streams, and you include lots of campaign tips in these too, which is where those expert gems come out and are what I really love in your content. I'm assuming heroes and lords and on the list and I'm really looking forward to those. Cheers!
Bretonnia is my jam. Bummed they are so unpopular, they will never get a good rework.
They really need it. They just do not perform the way they’re supposed to at all. Bretonnia doomer squad unite.
Well they’re free… every other faction has some laid content but bretonia was free with the first wood elf dlc and their only additional content is repanse who was also free. The only way they get a rework is if they get paid dlc content, which wouldn’t be until like mid warhammer 3…
Unless there was a lot of fan support for bretonia updates and dlcs…
@@luggy9256 CA has confirmed Bretonnia will never get a dlc. And there won’t be fan support because no one cares. Bretonnia doomer squad.
@@rellek4053 wait they confirmed no bretonia dlc ever?
@@luggy9256 it was a few updates ago, yeah.
I post it on every video, but even on normal, these Very Hard tier lists are valuable, because these gradations of power *still exist* on normal, but not to the degree they do on VH.
On normal, High elf archers are still better than high elf spear men. Melee still suffers from the same problems of replenishment and campaign momentum that ranged infantry doesn't. Cavalry still get stuck, does very little, and costs far too much for how much it does. You still need to expend more effort to use low tier units compared to high tier units.
So even if you play on normal, these teir lists are still valuable.
They can be useful but they are not needed, the problem of such an optimazed gameplay is that it can suck out the joy of the game for some, especially on lower difficulties.
Secondly while this tier list can be useful to understand a faction at its beginning if you play on normal you are not gonna want to doomstack or super optimize your armies too crush the enemy simply because it would be too easy
@@alexd832 This may come as a surprise, but other people are not exact copies of you. They have different levels of knowledge, understanding, learning capacity, and even different tastes and opinions.
Please do not presume to speak for those who are learning the game, or find normal to be sufficiently challenging, as you clearly belong to neither group.
Thank you.
False im afraid.
Alot of units on normal are worth their value, especially many cavalry... the reason why they are not on VH is because the AI gets heavy combat cheats.
Thats the big reason... if the AI didnt get battle cheats then melee infantry would perform significantly better on VH (like they could actually manage to deal some damage) and thus would change how much they can be used.
A melee infantry unit can always hold a 100 times longer and better than an archer (on normal) and because they hold longer = less casualties overall for the army.
An archer checkerboard suffers from low defense for when it gets caught, and they will be caught at some point... thats why the formation exists so you can deal as much damage as efficiently as possible, for as long as possible, before you get overrun and depending on the strength of the archers they might even be able to deal with the enemy army before they break themselves.
Replace the front units of a checkerboard with melee units and despite losing a bit of ranged firepower (replaced by melee firepower, which doesnt exist on VH) you are using the remaining archer's more efficiently... they get to deal more damage individually as a result, negating the lost damage from the now removed frontline archers.
This only factors in on normal difficulty because melee can actually get something done and not die anywhere near as quick as on VH... the only reason archer-stack is more effective on VH is due to ranged damage not being reduced in anyway by the difficulty.
@@Otakahunt And how many times do you play on Normal battle difficulty, as opposed to Very Hard?
@@Otakahunt I dont get this argument, honestly. If the archers are *sufficient* in vh, where their already low melee stats get completely outclassed by AI bonuses, why would I suddenly want to replace that unit with a worse unit? Spearmen are bad, all they have is a high melee defense and a shield. Their weapon strength is literally the same as an archer unit, at 19, and their melee attack is just 4 points higher. They aren't doing much more damage in melee.
So they hold a little bit better, but archers do the same thing, hold the line for just long enough, and then can deal *significantly* more damage when the enemy is on the approach or retreats.
Plus i can then cycle out the damaged archers for fresh ones, letting me continue to fight more battles without having to reinforce some spear men units.
Spear men are trash on normal too. They don't get utterly dick stomped by goblins anymore, but everything you want them to do, archers will do just long enough for you to win. And the same applies to pretty much every unit in the game.
They don't suck to the point of uselessness on normal, but you're still getting more value out of the higher tier units because they also don't have to deal with the AI cheats. It's not like suddenly on normal ranged units get worse. They get *better* because the AI's units can break before army losses without the morale bonuses. You can rout part of the army with your ranged units and fight an even weaker melee line.
Bretonnia is easily my favorite faction and this was a well done, practical tier list.
Great video - thanks for going into all the detailed explanations for your decisions. Just starting as Bretonnia so all this is useful.
Another important thing to note for Bretonnia, is with its horrible replenishment rate issues, lower entity count units actually preform even better than in other factions due to how any unit (except single entities) has all surviving entities healed to full health at the end of a battle. This leads to many battles with Hippogryph Knight doomstacks where no actual models die and the entire army gets healed to full health after the battle ends, completely negating the low replenishment rate Bretonnia suffers from.
Gotta say I love this kind of stuff. A sort of TW academy from you would be awesome. Things like general trends and rules for each faction laid out. A lot of that knowledge comes from streams, but consolidating it into videos like this could prove very helpful for WH2 and WH3. Love the work Legend!
Totally good analysis of how Bretonnia mechanisms work !
The explanation of units hitting up their pay grade was great and made me understand the concept really well.
I had a feeling it would be like this. Great list Legend!
Something to note if you're playing 1 rather than 2: Vows are just perks for Lords.
EDIT: Also in 2, for Repanse at least, dismissing your own Lords counts toward the Pledge to Valour. Found that out by accident.
Yay, my favorite faction! Both for their quirks and their aesthetic.
Eey a fellow champ of the lady. 🥰🤗
While not my top 1 favourite, definitely somewhere near there. Maybe number 4 or 5.
For ze Lady!
If you know who they are ofc.
Your best observation yet. Thank you for the extra Lord idea.
Cannot wait to see you do these tier lists for slaaneshi demons and kislevites when time comes!
You know, building the generic mellee infantry building could provide 1% replenishment worldwide to mellee infantry, this would incentivise making more creative infantry armies whilst being logical: more training fields, more available soldiers
Rather than 1% for melee infantry, I think 1% for peasant units. You could also add in a peasant hero (a druid? hermit?) with the casualty replenishment boost ability, since none of bretonnia's heroes do that at the moment.
@@Karnatil that is definetly an option as well. my statement adresses that and the problem with mellee units, still, a good point
I wish there was another Bretonnian hero recruited from Barracks. Bretonnia is probably the only faction which has only 2 heroes available, so getting one more from barracks would make sense.
I would put battle pilgrims at C. You will incidentally have access to them, they will have fast global recruit, and are solid if you are in a pinch and need something to hold a line
why not global recuit knight and punch u enemy with spear on horseback or lot of arrow if in siege :P
I'd agree for the matter of it's not inconvenient to get them, and they aren't completely awful, but unless you are preparing a defense of a city, I'd say to just get knights. The only reason I'd say they could work in a siege is because their leadership is fine already at 80 base, but would be better in a siege, and they have frenzy and decent melee stats for their tier. So a few of them in an army full of archers will be better in a siege than early knight units. They still have a really hard time providing their value but it's not as bad as it could be.
Nice intro. Legendary difficulty does have a profound impact in the unit balance and you explained it well.
Cheers mate
I had no idea how to get vows. Thanks man!
Я давно ждал свежего тир-листа по Бретонии, и вот наконец-то! Было очень интересно узнать про пользу которую могут принести те или иные юниты, огромное спасибо за это видео, лично для меня было очень полезно!
Legend can't read Russian.
@@KazeKoichi Maybe he can't read Russian, but my comment was not so much an expression of my thoughts as a sign of attention that people are watching his videos from different corners of the world
Did he seriously have to explain he rates these based on very hard battle difficulty AGAIN?!? Poor Legend, needing to repeat himself over and over and over and ......
Why not? Imagine a random dude who just searches for "Bretionnia unit guide" in TH-cam and gets this video
I love these videos so much. they definitely teach the game the most out of any other series
Hmm, I might need to try out Bretonnia, never had considered them before! Cant wait for a Beastmen tier list!
Bretonnia cavalry in lore: Stainless Steel Eastern Knights
Bretonnia cavalry in TWW: Yari cavalry
Hey Legend!
Have you thought of making videos for how you play certain factions?
I would love to hear your thoughts on each races play style
So good man, hope to see you soon on streams 💪
I was looking for this just yesterday! Epic!
Bretonnia in certain campaigns can start recruiting hippo doomstacks as early as turn 30. Until then, you can easily coast on lords and archers alone.
Pls elaborate
@@regisipayung411 What is there to elaborate on? Get to T5 as early as possible, get hippos for all of your lords who should probably have their vows completed by then. Rushig growth and getting building skill as Repanse helps with the task.
@@randaru1527 oh i think there is some new cheese .. thanks lol
@@regisipayung411 This is not cheese, just basic competence. They're just an insanely strong military faction with a very fast earlygame if you know what you're doing.
@@randaru1527 How do you get to T5 in 30 turns? That just seems mathematically impossible.
Almost a year now ive been playing VH difficulty and not looked back. I save scum a lot and just dont fancy legendary; and from time to time I still lose winable battles and need to try again. So ppl do play it. And its appreciated having a channel focused on VH/Ultra unit scale.
Love the lists legend,
I would love, if you have them available, an sydc where you show the things you've taught in action, though i realise this is down to somewhat random chance.
Keep up the good work :)
Love this series and I appreciate you a lot man, thank you
1:08 in other words; Normal is the 'ideal way' units perform, Very hard makes every unit worse, some can just take it better than others. Thus some units are better.
Problem is that AI is not that good. So AI need "cheats"
@@tayfurtarkan1 there is no point in playing with the cheats the ai gets on higher difficulty when people just counter them with cheese.
Same with normal, they have cheese allergic but still abusing the braindead AI. What's the different, really
@@TheBarser Unless the point is that you find that stuff fun. In some games I like cheese, in other games I don't like it
@@CromulentEmbiggening Well true enough. But often people are just complaining about the game not being ballanced, with melee units being worthless... and then they play on legendary with cheese stacks.
Please enlighten a poor humble peasant, what exactly is the Brettonian exploit to get free/reduced upkeep cavalry? I've heard its existence mentioned quite a few times, but I've not seen it explained, and it's a bit of a pain to sift through all the old livestreams.
Long story short: You get your lord to Knights vow, then wait till you reach a level of Chivalry when a recruited lord gets Knight vow, then you disband/replace a lord and recruit him/her in 5 turns. So the game kind of considers that this lord gets Knights vow twice (vow reduces upkeep of a respective unit for ~70%, so the upkeep is eventually reduced ~140%) so all Knights are free. Same works for Questing vow as well.
When confederating Leoun Leoncoure he often has Grail units for free too so apparently it's somehow possible to have Grail units free as well :)
It's better to google it, maybe I missed some details because I don't deliberately use this exploit.
This is great!! Would be lovely to see Cowman tier list
Great video, best guide on TH-cam on how to use Brettonia.
Finally my archer boys got recognition they deserve. Easily my favorite unit in my favorite faction. Those guys are THE definition of cost efficiency. They carry you through early and mid game giving you a lot of momentum to become late game beast.
Once again, I ask that in your future tier lists of a faction, please include heroes and their mounted variants. And Ogres too. Their usefulness only matters within each individual roster, and so these videos are the best place to discuss them. A mounted hero can turn a meh mount into something epic, or not much of a difference at all, so it does matter. The lores of magic of a hero are also important mainly within a faction's list, because some units will benefit more from buffs/debuffs, or be able to position and hold enemies better for damage spells.
All heroes are useful. Ogres good as early siege attacker or emergency units. Use melee heroes on foot to hold the line, on monster mounts to work as monsters, on flying mounts to duel and harass an enemy. Mages should be on fast, preferably flying mounts. It's easier and better to bombard enemy with magic then use it for buffs/debuffs with exception of healing and crowd control. That's basically what you want to hear in every video? No, thanks.
@@MalacayHooves Going by your comment, you'd rather have a skink priest on a terradon rather than an engine of the god?
Ogres fill gaps in certain rosters, for example Dwarfs.
And more.
@@StormEagle5 If it's only one priest in non-stegadon-spam army, then terradon, so i can confuse the shit out of enemy. If it's about stegadon (or bastiladon) spam, then regular stegadon (not ancient, not EotG). You don't need to fill gaps in rosters: play out your strengths, not cover weaknesses. Dwarfs is the race who gets the most out of ogres, and even they don't need them. They just don't need cavalry. It can be useful sometimes, but they don't need it.
thank you, finally! huge bretonnia fan here really great list
!
Wow I was thinking yesterday that it would be good if you did a Bretonnia tier list.
It’s so weird how this faction is supposed to be France but feels most like Parthia. Excellent heavy cavalry, lots of cheap archers and horse archers, bad infantry, that’s practically Parthia with its basic archers, cataphracts and pajama warriors.
France had the best chivalry in the middle age BY FAR, only ended after the disaster of Agincourt. And we had one if not the most OP infantery too. But reality is the same as in TWWH2, you can have the best melee infantery, and the best cavalery, it won't prevent the cheapest but somewhat skilled archers to fuck you up when they have half a brain xD And the fact the cavalery is only filled with nobles is also a french thing... or probably it was for any countries at this time, because being able to have and sustain a horse and the equipement with it was really expensive...
I mean really this faction is supposed to be the french guys from Monty Python, otherwise their Arthurian aesthetic is more of a British Isles thing
@@seijurohikko6382 Are you talking about real history? Cause you saying "the most OP infantry" makes me laugh. That is not how the world works.
@@googleandsusansucks it's especially hilarious to see that there is no date in his statement. The middle ages is 1000 years and France barely existed in a bit more than half of that time, but they sure were OP yo.
@@FrancoisMarchant Well I at least agree that France's knights were among the best heavy cav in the middle ages for the time they were around. But bad terrain and a bunch of longbows puts all those knights into the ground. But yeah the term OP doesn't really apply in history, I mean, I suppose you could say a well built castle with a ton of supplies and a decent garrison would be OP. I suppose you could say cannons are OP, or horse archers for the poor guys who had to deal with them. But infantry don't really come off as OP, unless you consider what pikes can do to cav, in which case sure.
Anyone else miss the days when Bretonnnia's vows had been as easy as just putting three levels into getting them?
I only play on Legendary so this is indeed very useful. Thanks so much for this!
This video could help me getting into playing them. I somehow never really got into playing them at all.
I gotta argue in favor of my vigilant Battle Pilgrims being C tier at least. The fact that they are recruited from a building that you will have in every major settlement makes them viable for cheap recruitment, plus being unbreakable eliminates one of the major weaknesses of Brettonian infantry. They can defend trebuchets and perform consistent hammer and anvil tactics with cav.
Agreed, battle pilgrims are the only Bretonnian infantry that are kinda ok. Don't forget they also get these nice shields and frenzy ; they're shit but at least they know they're shit and they're ready to hold the line for a long time so the grail knight will notice them.
@@TomZanovich plus shield and unbreakable also means they'll get your battering ram to the enemy gates almost every time!
they aren't unbreakable though
@@deathmental616 Battle Pilgrims most certainly are unbreakable, friend. They're religious fanatics lorewise.
@@coolbeanzbeef In game w/o mods, they are not unbreakable. Which is unfortunate
Tier list of best exploits in the game
Love your content man!
I am subbed to only like 50 people, and as a new total war player you are certainly added. Thank god TWW2 has a god tier content creator.
Anyone talking about normal battle difficulty hasn't even listened to the first 2 minutes of every video and deserve nothing but scorn and ridicule.
They should read his name before talking ( he is called legend because he plays mostly or ONLY legendery).
Its probably a counter movement to the all legendary super fans, legend is a good youtuber but sometimes annoying legend fanatics grow and pester everyone about it
@@alexd832 this
Too often there are people dunking on others due to the difficulty they play on...
@@mickethegoblin7167 i dont intend to dunk on anyone who plays legendary, i dont care if you do, have fun, but you have to be conscient that you are a minority and the games balance wont change based on legendary difficulty and that other people aren't annoying noobs for playing how they want to play
Ah sorry...missed the this, didn't understand you agreed
@@alexd832 yeah, it is the Legendary fanatics who tend to dunk on everyone else.
Only Normal for me.
i would definitely put battle pilgrims higher just because you are building their building everywhere anyway and for emergency purpose they are good convenient unit.
Battle pilgrims are a Tier 3 unit that has the same combat stats as the tier 1 Empire swordsmen
@@RoulicisThe yea so? LOL we are not comparing them to empire units we are comparing them to how USEFUL they are in Bretonia campaign and they are at least one tier more useful then trash.
@@dimapetrov2367 And useful they're not : by the time you can recruit them, you have plenty of knights available, knights that tend to even be cheaper than pilgrims since you can reduce their upkeep by a more than reasonable margin, and they don't take a peasant slot that you need to boost your economy
@@RoulicisThe Empire Swordsmen with the leadership of a LONGBEARD
I agree, i kind of like them. They are still shit but they hold the line for quite some time.
Could you do a ranking (or insight) into *Research Trees*?? I like your format and think they'd be a good next term vid-blog!
I'm probably never gonna play 70% of these races but you do such a good job that I'll still watch every single one
Why? While I consistently only play like 7-9 races, I have tried all except Beastmen and Chaos... I didn't like Skaven at first, now they're one of my fav races.
Great video, this was the one I was waiting on.
I'm a modder for Bretonnia that loves melee infantry so I knew how this list was going to go, but I'm a masochist so I loved every second of it. I would be curious to see how you would cope with a playthrough where you had to use the trash-tier peasants since thats all I use, but like you say everything works on normal difficulty battles and thats what I play. Even still, on normal even with my Bretonnia Overhaul, I still struggle with peasants and I'd have no idea how to cope with vanilla at this point, let alone on legendary/very hard.
The biggest problem with Bretonnia's melee units is their vulnerability to ranged fire, even with good shields. They get so easily annihilated by the much improved artillery and archer units that TWW2 has on offer, let alone all the new doomstackable single entity behemoths, like dragons and what not. The peasant economy is a harsh restriction but atleast the bowmen are still viable in spite of it.
This is an excellent video, I agree with most of it. The flying Pegasus knights(both regular and vanilla) never seem to do very well for me, but those hippogryph knights are wonderful.
Didn't realise the building prioritisation was so good for brettonia. Definitely have to try them out, if I can remember to do the vows...
I was literally looking for this yesterday and managed to just pile up armies and finish the campaign that way
I've been awaiting this
I don't know how you'd format it, but I'd like to see a hero tier list too at some point! I feel like I learn a lot from these
Thanks for another tier list
Greatly appreciated Legend! Bretonnia is one of my favorites too, gotta love these magnificent chivalrous bastards
Legend an idea for future videos could be a building tier list, or building strategy for all races. Which building are useless, priority ones, when to build in major settlements or minor...
Love the Rankings. Please do a Hero Ranking (cross factions)
Damn i cant get enough of these.
The easiest way to complete the pledge to Manann (Winning a battle at sea) is to look for wrecks or something similiar on the sea. More often than not, they have an easy battle against the Vampire Coast waiting for you which will lett you complete your vow with a quick auto resolve
Most useful bit of info for me; which buildings to destroy/ignore, and how to focus the Economy.
Started a brand new Bretonnia run off the back of this (Ive never got very far with them) and am in a better place, with Moussilon dead, by turn 8 than I ever have been. Thanks! :D
Legends 'Idiots Guide to building for [Faction]' series when? :P
Legend, thanks for your work.
This is a good tier, but you should mention, that Rapans faction boosts questing knights and Bordello boosts knights of the realm significantly. I had won the entire game with Alberic with no better unit then knights of the realm.
I find with all the flying cav getting multiple units to charge in from different directions sandwiches the enemy and stops you getting quite as trapped. And with the speed of the Royal Bretonnian Airforce you can arrange that quite easily.
I am sure you've thought about it (or it's been brought up already) but will you make a similar ranking for the generic Lords and Heroes in the future?
Love these videos, learning a ton.
i think these tierlists are very useful for any dufficulty
My friend introduce me in the game, he had like 2000hrs in. We play together and since then 300hr for me and Never had a game in wh below very hard....We had some very epic battles like 3k units vs 6k. It's truly thrilling, any wrong move will end different... Great game, and as legend said very hard do have make some unit obsolete.
That part about build slots. That's the main reason I'd put Battle Pilgrims a tier above the rest of the melee infantry. You can recruit those from a Grail Shrine which is a building chain you want in every major settlement anyway. They're not going to win any major battles for you, but they can useful fodder for holding the line in a pinch. They also have WAY better leadership than the other melee infantry do.
Can't argue with them being not worth a peasant slot over Archers or Trebuchet but if you need to recruit an army in a hurry a frontline of Battle Pilgrims can be ok.
Also I'm going to put Knights Errant in C Tier for me as well. They are just nowhere near as good as Knights of the Realm which you can get very soon afterward. The only time Knights Errant are really useful is for Repanse and that's because she starts with a minor settlement with a Landmark that can recruit them. As soon as Knights of the Realm are available I never bother with Knights Errant again they get clobbered by just about everything. Also on my list I'm gonna drop Pegasus Knights down to B Tier. They are just TOO micro intensive and can get massacred so fast if you aren't CONSTANTLY babysitting them.
Otherwise as someone else that loves Bretonnia I'm going to agree with your list and your advice on how to play them.
At tier 2, Errants do the job fine. They have a good combo of charge bonus & speed & armor. The 54 charge bonus & 75 speed really helps them dish out dmg. Empire Knights are supposed to be similar they but they are trash cos low charge bonus & low speed.
Bretonnian campaigns are some of my favourite campaigns on VH too. Love everything about them.. besides the infantry