bonus points for Brood Horrors: Packmasters, the heroes that boost them, also ride Brood Horrors, so keeping them together as a group is very, very easy.
Yep. I love having individual groups of monsters for each of my packmasters. One will have brood horrors, another rat ogres, hell pit aboms, etc. works super well and feels very thematic too
Unfortunately the packmasters aren't able to get all the bonus speed buffs you can give to your broodhorrors so I often have broodhorrors with like 100+ speed and packmasters slightly behind them with *only* 90 odd speed
@@gutsstruggler3693 but if you think about it that also means the packmaster isnt jamming up a spot the higher charge bonus rufus lookin good bois would want to hit and is still easily in range to get auras back up and buffs out fast
@@GhostOfBuscemi Very true. It's not really a problem in practice. I think it'd be cool if buffs affected mounts too or if you could put the mutations on the character mounts.
probably need to produce all "unit roster tier rankings" in a similar time frame or in the very least before the next wh2 patch comes out to keep them comparable to one another
Probably worth pointing out how much Legend relies on plague priests and their synergy with weapons teams armies for crowd control. That context helps explain his comment about 60% artillery armies being viable
60% artillery armies + 40% heroes is viable for Empire/Dawi and Skaven and if you sub some artillery for zombie gunners Vampire Coast too. 60% artillery+40% hero(mostly captains coz they get flying mounts, + a life wizard) Empire army auto reses 3-4 AI stacks no wipe outs on L/VH
@@damo9961 I don't think 60% artillery armies are viable as the dwarfs. I usually take 5 max. Thunderers are a must, trollhammers are great, and then ironbreakers in chevron formation plus heroes to hold the line
@@Loj84 because dwarves artillery lack of fire power. Organ guns is worse version of Helblaster gun, Flame cannon lacks of AP damage, cannon and catapult is mediocre. It is weird how Empire used to copy Dwarves artillery but in this game they have better artillery.
Rat wolves are actually pretty useful in early game from my experience. Mostly as a specialist unit to quickly get rid of stuff like grenade outriders or artillary though.
Before I got enough Packmasters for summons, I used them to draw things away or chase down routing units. Skaven really have nothing else that can pursue effectively early on - even Runners suffer from infantry pursuit syndrome, and rarely actually *catch* anything so much as gently escort it - and I'd rather not have to break the same unit three times to shatter it when my own Ld is so poor. Got rid of the bought rat wolves as soon as I got the summons, though.
@@kaischwarz6590 Yea I know. Its so unfortunate. That's the main reason why I play normal battle, but very hard campaign difficulty. I hope they change that in WH3.
Just a thought, but if or when you do the Greenskins unit roaster tier-list, would you be taking scrap upgrades into consideration? I know they are technically an outsider buff but I’d also argue that it’s as important to think about as recruit time or cost. For certain units it can make or break effectiveness but a lot, like how for instance normally Goblin archers are absolutely horrid compared to most archer units in the game or even their own faction, but if you add the armor piercing +400% they become immediately more effective against most greenskins prime enemies (dwarves). I understand if you don’t since it is a buff like a lord or a faction might provide, but just something to think about.
Alternatively, the huge increase in ammo, especially on ranked gobbos improves your balance of power and also let's you achieve similar results by dumping more arrows into the enemy. Obviously, it depends on the circumstances, but imo the ammo boost is a nice choice and maybe more versatile.
Really interested to see the ranking for GS units as well! Legend tends to lob all melee infantry into trash tier, but the GS might do a bit different. Goblin Fanatics can punch way above their paygrade with twirly-wirlys, and Nasty Skulkers have really good damage output for their low cost. Plus they stalk. Stone Trolls may be the best monstrous infantry in the game. Or maybe second to Minotaurs. Really good in any case.
@@KeijoAmbersson Those are really good points! I’m also going after for the GS ranking and it’s my hope that most of the roster (aside from the two untouchables) doesn’t end up in the trash tier for those reasons!
I think it must be taken into consideration considering it's not faction specific, any and all greenskin factions have access to the scrap upgrades. I imagine that if he were to do a vampire counts tierlist, he'd take the skeleton upkeep negation into account.
@@parkerconnolly2484 Technically you can make a Steam Tank doomstack with a flying Life Wizard to keep them alive, but it's not that amazing compared to a well put together "normal" doomstack.
Grenade launcher outriders and hellstorm rockets are doomstack grade, evwn though you cannot make a doomstack exclusively using them. But you cannot make a doomstack using only 1 skaven unit either.
I love the variety of playstyle you can have with skavens specially depending on the lord. Legend puts plague monks at trash but if you really want to play them you can make them work. Of course it ain't as easy as using plague catapults
I love the concept of the Skaven. However I also saw them as a 'filler race' to weak to be worth playing as... and then I used the rattling gunners supported by death globe globiddiers and doom flayers. Now I love them.
I think its frustrating how different the dynamic between lower difficulty and very hard makes it so there's certain army comps are way more viable. And then what makes it worse is that the things effective on Very hard are REALLY effective on lower stuff. Sometimes Id like to have varied armies, especially with lords that boost certain units
Actually, when you spoke about summon unit, you've made me thinking that, you should have add hero units and lords, in the tier ranking. edit: great tier ranking btw.
Legend, please do a Dwarves tierlist? As much as I love my short-man-syndrome beardy bois, while I enjoy some of the units immensely, it feels like they don't perform as well as the stats suggest
For me, dwarves are one of those races that perform waaay better when played by the AI than when i play them. For example, longbeards, mine tend to do nothing while the enemy holds the front and get a lot of kills, slayers, same problem, (of course, I run mostly ranged units armies, but I dont like going full doomstacks or super strong armies, I like some balanced armies even though I know they underperform), but yeah, same with greenskins, I just cant do the same as the AI
One of the problem with Dwarfs is that their units are all relatively expensive, but can be taken out by lower tier units with relative ease, due to the fact that especially ranged units perform way too well in this game. Everytime I see the damage basic goblin or orc archers do to a unit of Hammerers or Ironbreakers of mine, I can only shake my head and ask myself what the point of fielding high tier melee infantry is.
To add to this, the majority of dwarf units don't get silver missile parry. Have you seen their shields, compared to their size? Goblins get silver missile parry...
Question for you is probably what battle difficulty you are on. If it’s very hard, or even hard, that might be the reason that they aren’t performing well.
Warpfire throwers, I've had EXTREMELY good luck putting them in a ratling/jezail/plagueclaw army as either a frontline or flank protection unit, depending on the fight. I've tried Doomwheels, I've tried Doomflayers, I've tried Abominations, against all of them I prefer my Warpfire throwers simply because they benefit so much MORE from post-battle unit replenishment if I need it. Also because holy crap do they melt infantry units.
I had pet rats recently. Because of time and effort issues, I found them a new owner. She's really taking good care of them and why im writing this in the first place, she gave all of them names from the Skavens, which made me look up a few of the characters/units.
The Piercing Armour Variant of Wolf Rats can be quite useful at the beginning of Throt's campaign, when you're up against the Norse Dwarves and have nothing to oppose them besides the Skaven Slaves and Clanrats who cannot dish out any damage on a Dawi. Instead, you use them as cannon fodder and let the Wolf Rats attack them in the back.
Still love the skaven. Simply because they play differently to other races. Even if you have different clans you might have a bit different armies. The only race where you build different armies I think are the Tomb Kings, simply because you have to with them
I’ve had very good luck in the early game getting a couple plagueclaw catapults, warpfire throwers, a brood horror mount for the pack master and some of the wolf rats and then leadership bombing the edges of the formation. The wolf rats are slept on for their ability to hunt down stuff with their poison or magical attacks and high armor piercing. Can kill reiksguard real good. I think that’s a good early game army on a budget
Hello! With the rebalance of melee units in Warhammer 3, is it possible to have this tier list redone? As a rat myself, I cannot deny the sheer dread that man-things expirience under ratling gun's fire. But I have to wonder, maybe plague monks, sneaky boys and some monsters, such as rat ogres and a mutant one, deserve a higher placement now.
For me the doomwheel always runs thru all human sized infantry, one of my favorite moves is having one run straight through an archer line with a flaming skull directly behind it. The combined knockdown and damage is devastating, not to mention the coolest looking thing you can do in the whole game
I do recognize that this is an objectively correct tier list to how you should play the game optimally, but the bad, and underperforming units are extreamly funny to use, so I do not care.
there's a kinda niche use for rat ogres that I think Legend overlooked: they nock down city gates in seconds. I know there are far more effective ways for skaven to take sieges than gate-rushing, but if you want to do that, rat ogres are your friends; they'll nock out the gate in an instant, then surge through to make room for the follow-up.
The follow-up being dying in a second, and if you're also using good monsters (like mutant rat ogres, broodhorrors and/or hellpit monsters) them all you need to do is to set your lords and heroes on one side and the monsters hidden on the forest, then rush the gates while the enemy army is across the map.
one way to fix skaven normal clan infantry could be to allow them to summon lower tier units, stormvermin summoning clanrats and the later summoning skavenslaves, to really nail the endless amount of vermin down
Just a few notes about the poison wind globardiers, mortars, the poison damage can and will affect your own troops, so make sure you're careful with what you throw at Also, gutter/night runner slingers have twice as much ammo as the night runner or gutter runner basic units.
A hero tier list by itself is a bit meaningless because their placement should be in respect to the armies to which they belong. Legend should include them in these tier lists he is doing.
Can we do a Beastmen tier list next, Now that they're viable? Would be cool to hear your thoughts now that they're a playable faction. They've been in the dirt for so long, And it would be interesting since they're mostly a melee faction.
@@bigbirdflying6330 but he just did it for skaven... skaven is literally the most op faction in the game, in players hands that is. Weapon teams are just so powerful especially with ikit claw.
Excellent Tier lists, would like to see Hero tier lists eventually, because I myself can make easy unit choices, but considering how many heroes and wizards are there in warhammer total war, despite being experience player who was able to beat the game few times on very hard/very hard, I still dont know all the heroes, hardly a portion of them in fact.
In this case of the Skaven, the Trash unites are the beloved and most used units :P ... For the sake of being bodies send to the slaughter... CA... If you see this... Give Skaven the option for a (WAGH) 10-15 meatshield second stack of just Slaves or Clan Rats.
Wow in so much agreement here including the reasoning behind the choices. The only changes I would have made would be to swap the Mutant Rat Ogre and Hell Pit Abomination around and to relegate Warp Grinders all the way to Trash (they really are bad). Both Death Runners and Triads have an argument to be in B tier but can also totally see them in C tier as well. I used to get Doomwheels for mounts until I realised that Doom Flayers are much much better mounts (Brood Horrors are obviously the best mounts but characters who use Doom Flayers can't get Brood Horrors anyway). I hadn't noticed the upkeep increase in slingers, thanks for the heads up. Great vid once again!
I sometimes feel that the big problem with melee infantry is that they are too non threatening. Sure dealing damage isn't their primary purpose. But I feel that melee infantry should get some kind of ability to swarm single entities. Like maybe some kind of outnumbering bonus. Have a large monster count as many entities. But make it so that if you only take monsters they are going to get severely hampered. It's actually ridiculous that a lot of these monsters can wade into ranked infantry completely unsupported and come out unscathed.
nice to see some love to the globadiers. I feel like they're too often slept on but you can get them pretty early and their damage is incredible and even with tech buffs alone they're gonna be paying for themselves easily even later in the campaign. people complain about their firing ark but it doesn't take much to get their speed up pretty good and just basic flanking will make them even more death dealers especially against cav, Death Globs are second only to ratling guns when making cav charges stop in their tracks.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 Erh, sure. Actually i should play Skaven sometime. Do you have a good idea about a good first time Skaven start? I feel like Thrott and Ikit might be a tad too OP for a normal skaven experience.
always waiting for my favorite faction even if Legend doesnt like them bring on the dwarfs and their grudges, would be an interesting video with discussions about how the different units work together because you cant really go without variaty in dwarf armys with all their sturdy infantry and the deadly artillery and missile units Khazukan Kazakit-Ha!
I feel like you should have included the heroes in these lists so we can see how critical it is to include them or if we can doomstack them like vampires
Skaven have the most diverse subfactions in my opinion with each of the clans having unique functions, abilities and playstyles, depending on witch you play as you army comp may be completely different as you make use of each clans strengths, you seem to be more of a eshin or skyre man thing, molder plays different, it makes monster armies much more effective and also nullifies recruitment costs for slaves and monsters, wolfrats are extreamly effective if used right and can easily delete units in seconds, snip artillery, cav and chariots depending on the chariots, and shed high value units, the main thing is you can't treat them like fodder or stuff or leave them in prolonged fights, they are very fast and easy to move around the battle field, they are good for focusing down annoying cav and stuff and good for flanking, and breaking units if you have 5 or so groups of wolfrats and group them all together you can move them around rushing any exposed or isolated units breaking them rather quickly and doing good damage, they are good reconsivness and are able to break off an engagement and rengage quickly so you can dessimate a units then break off as help comes then fuck up another units and just bounce around like that till their army starts to fall apart, then is when they really shine, wolfrats are some of the best units for dealing damage to broken units its easy for them them to get hundreds of kills per unit from the fact that once a unit is broken they can shed them extreamly fast to the last man or troll or horse or whatever, witch is why it's good to be selective in engagements and why they are good to have all groups together till you win and can have them split up to chase down people, as grouped together and flanking as they can break isolated or flanked units rather quickly and once they do they are quickly do a ton of damage and remove units from the battle it may be best to not bother finishing them all off unless they are a high value unit you wand dead rather just crippling them so they are no longer an issue till before targeting a new unit then finishing then off after you win, cuz often you don't need to fully eliminate a unit if you get it low enough they will either shatter and run off the map or regroup but be so low that they will immediately route once they go near an enemy witch makes them extreamly easy to deal with later, admittedly wolfrats are kinda trash for non-molder armies but are still effective at running down broken units so even as a non molder army bringing 1 or 2 can be good just to have them chase down things, though as molder I find they reliably win battles as the primary damage dealers hitting way above their price point(their ussuly free for molder but even if they weren't) with minimal to no damage taken alot of them time, not that that's matters as they you can have the healed or replaced in a single turn. Admittedly standard rat ogres are kinda shit, but when you get them for free they can be worth making over skaven slaves if you don't need them, wolf rats do way more damage then rat ogres in battles, and rat ogres die way more often, though molder is also able to improve units to make units more effective witch can make ratoges usable for a verity of functions, you can turn them in to tougher unbreakable ones that are a actually not bad at keeping units busy and disturbing formations, however Mutate Rat ogres are not bad and can be used to keep units busy as tanks and deal out damage, they are slower then brood horrors but it not slow either, and has better leadership, melee attack, melee defence, weapon strength, magical attack, physical resistance and more health witch makes them better in prolonged fights they are good at killing lords, infinity, cav, chariots, and weapons teams as they can often just push though to kill units In the back and are tanky enough they don't need to be baby sat, they have scurrying away as well witch makes them fast when their leader ship is lowered making them faster then alot of cav allowing it to chase down things normally faster then it after it has taken some damage, at the end of battle and stuff and unlike normal rat ogres they ussuly are good at keep themselves alive if you leave then in a fight unsupervised, I generally find they do better then broodhorrors when left in combat, well brood horrors are often good treated as giant wolfrats flanking and picking off vulnerable enemies, though are also able to be left in fights for a bit, I find it's better to keep an eye on them if you do send then up against lords and stuff. aside from standard rat ogres all the molder units are good.
Playing co-op campaign with my brother I would keep 3 or 4 flayers in my army so I could control the weapon teams whilst he just micro managed the flayers all game. Worked incredibly well.
Would you consider doing a tier list for hero's? There may be a weird number of them or might not be that useful but I think it would be fun to compare them directly!
Difficulty with that is the relevance in their own faction and the added utility of the campaign map. Plague Priest's are amazing casters who can easily win battles alone but they cant cheese the economy like HE wizards or cause major campaign map shenanigans. It ends up being like comparing a bin to a couch.
Man, I'm so grateful for the way you've compiled this video. I don't just mean the graphics but all the real to game information that you're throwing out there. I have way too many hours to still be rubbish at this game and a lot of it comes down to laziness. When you talk about how you should play the skaven though, I think I might actually put in the effort. With that, you won't be surprised to know that i had been stacking their armies kinda "traditionally", as in I've been using the infantry.. Id usually have 6 units and then I would also of course have some of the catapults, some rattlign guns but I have recently fallen in love with the purple bombardiers. They do the sickest amount of damage. I just bought the DLC to get those brood horrors too. will. The best part of all of this though was the tier surprises. I'll definitely be rebuilding an army with this in mind. TY man ;)
My doom stack Skaven army, Plague lord/Ikit, 3 plague priests, 2 warlock engineers, 4 ratling gunners, 4 jezzails, 2 poison motors, 2 plague claw catapults, and 2 warp lightning cannons. That's my go to but will tweak depending on what campaign and who I'm trying to kill. Avalanche motors are broken tbh, way too good. Hell pit abomination I've never had 1 meet the price to performance unless I made a doom stack of them and even then it was very iffy.
Note about Warp Lightning cannons: The main thing they outclass Jezzails at is dealing with Artillery Monsters, such as Stegadons, Bone(r) Giants and Steam Tanks. They have superior range and are less susceptible to return fire. By the time your Jezzails got into range to shoot the enemy Steam Tank for example, they lost half their entities and are likely routing, Warp Lightning cannons don't have this problem and because the artillery monster will likely sit completely still, accuracy isn't a problem either. Also, unlike regular artillery, Monstrous artillery can't be properly dealt with by menace below, so you need something to actually kill them.
The interesting thing about Warp Lightning Cannon is that even when I put them in an army with Plagueclaw Catapults, they tend to get more kills overall against most armies, whether they're infantry heavy or mixed with Cav. Their piercing shots don't seem to do as much damage as the plague shots on impact, but over time they just rack up so many kills.
@@sclarke6969 Huh, interesting point. I haven't played much Skaven since the update that tracked the damage dealt by each unit. I'll have to run a skyre campaign to test their output now... Maybe make a spreadsheet over the battles and define the parameters by terrain and army compositions. That should be fun-fun.
Interesting. I agree with most of these, but I find myself disagreeing with Rat Ogres. I used to find them as trash, but they seem to rack up kills somehow and are not as expensive as mutant rat ogres, so I wouldn't put rat ogres that low. I'm honestly not a fan of Mutant Rat Ogres because Brood Horrors are just so much better for the cost.
I think they're decent vs cavalry, not that good vs infantry, and they actually kill heroes pretty well as they have good animations with armor piercing. They don't hit as hard as other units, but still do the job
Thanks for the video! My vote is for Empire, since it is a lot harder for me to explain the better units for them to use than teaching someone how to play Dwarves.
Dang there are factions with just 1 dlc while Skaven Skaven already have 3 + being a core race. And you complain that you want more? I mean the 2nd last DLC for WH2 was Skaven, not that long ago really?
For me you nailed it. How you rate skaven is how I now play skaven. I used to go stormvermin hard. But then I played at higher difficulties and started to see them running away a lot. Took me ages to get good wit jezzals, kept picking bad spots wea they couldn't shoot, or putting them way up front and isolated, or leaving skirmish mode on so they never shot and constantly ran away. Now I can't play skaven without them and rattling guns and at least 2 plaugewind Mortars now too. Turning on Guard mode and turning off skirmish helped the most.
Some predictions I have: Most melee infantry: Trash Plague monk censer bearers: C tier, maybe B. Could be doomstack with moulder but that needs a lot of effort Poisoned wind globadiers: probably C or B, just cause they do so much friendly fire, sometimes to themselves Death Globes: Maybe A because they can do so much damage Night Runners and Gutter runners probably B tier, poison variant A tier Skavenslave slingers A tier maybe, other variants C tier Ratling Guns, Jezzails, pestilent wind mortars all S tier Plageclaws S tier, Warp lightning cannons A tier Doomwheels either A or B, Doomflayers probably A. Brood horrors doomstack, mutant rat ogres A tier, rat ogres C tier and I have no clue about Hell Pit abominations. I’ve probably forgotten a lot of the roster, like wolf rats, but who ever recruits them anyway? P.S. Sub-trash for stormvermin
Bro i love these and need these now because i just got into Warhammer II after all these years i got Troy and returned it after 2 hours and finally pulled the trigger on Warhammer even though i know nothing about it your Dark Elf one helped me out a ton! If you could do either an Empire one or a those Egyptian dudes next that would be cool if not that's cool too just keep doing these big boss
That sounds like a great idea! Having the Noctilus campaign so fresh in our minds could be the next sensible step... Even though it would be Necrofexes as doomstacks, corpses and Queen Bess (a weird case of a RoR not being an upgrade of an existing unit) lying somewhere between A and B and then everything else rated as trash.
Love all of the new ideas you are exploring on your channel. Especially value where you walk through your thinking on various things. Potential future idea would be heroes - which to prioritize, traits to look for (and how important they really are, or are not), how to rank them up, and what they are especially useful for. I confess that I often skip around your old campaigns to get reminders on how you tend to do that or think about that. Could do the same with lords. Another idea would be technologies - good, bad, ugly, and priorities and why. Cheers mate - keep up the amazing work!
Lol at Legend talking about CA constantly nerfing his playstyle, his whole playstyle revolves around exploiting things in the game so it makes sense they target those things right XD
I'd love to see Empire or Greenskins as the next video - Empire because their roster is really well balanced so it would be interesting to see the minutiae that you consider making one better than another, and Greenskins because of scrap upgrades (a necessary consideration, given the boosts they give) and being a primarily melee-focused faction that's actually good at it.
Funny enough, in tabletop, slaves are your go-to core unit. With 2 or 3 points per model you can just drown your enemy in a rat tsunami. Very few armies have enough attacks to crash a horde of slaves, and even if they do, you could easily take 2 or 3 hordes with very little cost.
loving this series. Would you consider showing one or two examples of good stacks after the ranking? I know it depends a lot about who you are facing and the general you are using, but perhaps a couple of examples of good all-round stacks could be a good starting point to work upon. Keep up the good work :)
Gutter runners are no joke in a clan eshin campaign. The added bonuses to AP allowed me to take on one of those special landmark battles where a bunch of skinwolves and war mammoths spawned within the first 10 turns and I managed to win using my gutter runners and the starting death runners and triads. Was incredible to see.
I started a Tiktaqto campaign after watching the Lizardmen roster ranking vid and I gotta say, it feels liberating not to worry about Saurus at all. Tiktaqto's stack is right proper Top Gun now. Thanks Legend, you've helped me immensely in enjoying this game past 2.2K hours. After Empire, which feels inevitable, I'd vote for Tomb Kings.
I'd love to see this done with reference to normal difficulty - just because at the moment this isn't really a Tier Ranking - it's a TR specifically for L/VH, where melee infantry will have a huge disadvantage. So every single video will end up with powerful missile infantry and artillery always ending up at or near the top, regardless of the race.
wow life changing inspiring made my day. But seriously thanks for this Legend. Really helpful videos, makes me more comfortable with playing factions Ive never tried before
Great video Legend, thanks. I know why you don't want to include lords in these videos but I think it would be really good to include heroes to give people an idea of which heroes are good and for what situations, etc. Or maybe do a separate video on heroes. Food for thought. Thanks again!
Super useful, I was so confused with all the thing-runners and blobadiers stuff I'd never build them and kept using only Weapon teams + Slingerslaves stacks !😊
Skavenslaves trash? i'll show you
you only need two units. skavenlsaves to put the "friend" in friendly fire..and ratling guns.. to put the ratatatatata in ratling guns XD
Lil bro Legend thinks he knows what he’s yapping about when it comes to Skaven. Let him keep thinking.
bonus points for Brood Horrors: Packmasters, the heroes that boost them, also ride Brood Horrors, so keeping them together as a group is very, very easy.
Yep. I love having individual groups of monsters for each of my packmasters. One will have brood horrors, another rat ogres, hell pit aboms, etc. works super well and feels very thematic too
Unfortunately the packmasters aren't able to get all the bonus speed buffs you can give to your broodhorrors so I often have broodhorrors with like 100+ speed and packmasters slightly behind them with *only* 90 odd speed
@@gutsstruggler3693 but if you think about it that also means the packmaster isnt jamming up a spot the higher charge bonus rufus lookin good bois would want to hit and is still easily in range to get auras back up and buffs out fast
and you can reduce the brood horrors upkeep with them as well
@@GhostOfBuscemi Very true. It's not really a problem in practice. I think it'd be cool if buffs affected mounts too or if you could put the mutations on the character mounts.
Damn two tier lists in two days! Cheers Legend
Easy content to create. Viewers love it.
Win-win
A good formula is a good formula! Keep them coming, Legend!
probably need to produce all "unit roster tier rankings" in a similar time frame or in the very least before the next wh2 patch comes out to keep them comparable to one another
If you're think you're worthless just remember Skaven infantry exist
"But Skaven infantry are walls."
Fuck walls. More guns and summons!
@@JoshSweetvale naaaaaaaa
More like road bumps that eventually get flattened if left alone.
I mean skaven need food.....
Pretty Lore acurrate ngl
@@이가람-s3w "eventually?"
Melee infantry: *exist*
Legend: "I diagnose you with trash tier."
Rightfully so, of course.
WE have a chance to get a bit higher with their melee infantry and maybe greenskins as well.
@@proxyx3557 Vampire Counts will be the only faction where they reach doomstack tier tho
@@cleno780 gotta love free labor lol
@@proxyx3557greeskins dwarfs and chaos are the only ones i can see getting A wood elfs are way too squishy to go above B
when you have magic and gunpowder in the same universe, what do you expect?
Probably worth pointing out how much Legend relies on plague priests and their synergy with weapons teams armies for crowd control. That context helps explain his comment about 60% artillery armies being viable
60% artillery armies + 40% heroes is viable for Empire/Dawi and Skaven and if you sub some artillery for zombie gunners Vampire Coast too.
60% artillery+40% hero(mostly captains coz they get flying mounts, + a life wizard) Empire army auto reses 3-4 AI stacks no wipe outs on L/VH
@@damo9961 I don't think 60% artillery armies are viable as the dwarfs. I usually take 5 max. Thunderers are a must, trollhammers are great, and then ironbreakers in chevron formation plus heroes to hold the line
Yeah, he should have included heroes in his tierlists, I think
@@Loj84 because dwarves artillery lack of fire power. Organ guns is worse version of Helblaster gun, Flame cannon lacks of AP damage, cannon and catapult is mediocre. It is weird how Empire used to copy Dwarves artillery but in this game they have better artillery.
@@adriany1044 Refusal to innovate into repeating tech.
Rat wolves are actually pretty useful in early game from my experience. Mostly as a specialist unit to quickly get rid of stuff like grenade outriders or artillary though.
Before I got enough Packmasters for summons, I used them to draw things away or chase down routing units. Skaven really have nothing else that can pursue effectively early on - even Runners suffer from infantry pursuit syndrome, and rarely actually *catch* anything so much as gently escort it - and I'd rather not have to break the same unit three times to shatter it when my own Ld is so poor. Got rid of the bought rat wolves as soon as I got the summons, though.
@@CdeM I had the same experience. Nowadays Mournfang cav helps with that around midgame. Same as what they do for Dwarfs and Vampire Coast.
They are very useful for there upkeep
The vanguard deployment makes them op too always get like 200 kills
It is so funny how satisfying a tier list can be, great concept to do every so often
yea, unfortunately they are so predictable. Range top, Melee bottom. Stuff he uses, doomstack.
@@rosalina2938 melee are the least effective units on high difficulty though.
@@kaischwarz6590 Yea I know. Its so unfortunate.
That's the main reason why I play normal battle, but very hard campaign difficulty. I hope they change that in WH3.
Just a thought, but if or when you do the Greenskins unit roaster tier-list, would you be taking scrap upgrades into consideration? I know they are technically an outsider buff but I’d also argue that it’s as important to think about as recruit time or cost. For certain units it can make or break effectiveness but a lot, like how for instance normally Goblin archers are absolutely horrid compared to most archer units in the game or even their own faction, but if you add the armor piercing +400% they become immediately more effective against most greenskins prime enemies (dwarves). I understand if you don’t since it is a buff like a lord or a faction might provide, but just something to think about.
I think that's fair, since all the greenskin factions get those
Alternatively, the huge increase in ammo, especially on ranked gobbos improves your balance of power and also let's you achieve similar results by dumping more arrows into the enemy. Obviously, it depends on the circumstances, but imo the ammo boost is a nice choice and maybe more versatile.
Really interested to see the ranking for GS units as well! Legend tends to lob all melee infantry into trash tier, but the GS might do a bit different.
Goblin Fanatics can punch way above their paygrade with twirly-wirlys, and Nasty Skulkers have really good damage output for their low cost. Plus they stalk.
Stone Trolls may be the best monstrous infantry in the game. Or maybe second to Minotaurs. Really good in any case.
@@KeijoAmbersson Those are really good points! I’m also going after for the GS ranking and it’s my hope that most of the roster (aside from the two untouchables) doesn’t end up in the trash tier for those reasons!
I think it must be taken into consideration considering it's not faction specific, any and all greenskin factions have access to the scrap upgrades.
I imagine that if he were to do a vampire counts tierlist, he'd take the skeleton upkeep negation into account.
Would love to see an Empire tierlist exactly cus they aren't that doomstackable
No empire and dwarfs doom stack requires a mix of units
@@parkerconnolly2484 Technically you can make a Steam Tank doomstack with a flying Life Wizard to keep them alive, but it's not that amazing compared to a well put together "normal" doomstack.
Grenade launcher outriders and hellstorm rockets are doomstack grade, evwn though you cannot make a doomstack exclusively using them. But you cannot make a doomstack using only 1 skaven unit either.
Same!
*Excited Hellfire Rocket noises*
I love the variety of playstyle you can have with skavens specially depending on the lord. Legend puts plague monks at trash but if you really want to play them you can make them work. Of course it ain't as easy as using plague catapults
Haha time for best tier list yes yes.
Yes yes
I love the concept of the Skaven. However I also saw them as a 'filler race' to weak to be worth playing as... and then I used the rattling gunners supported by death globe globiddiers and doom flayers. Now I love them.
I hope you've given warpfire throwers a shot since then. One of my favorites. Use a lord/hero to bait enemy infantry, then watch them melt
I think its frustrating how different the dynamic between lower difficulty and very hard makes it so there's certain army comps are way more viable. And then what makes it worse is that the things effective on Very hard are REALLY effective on lower stuff. Sometimes Id like to have varied armies, especially with lords that boost certain units
Legend, your best vids is you just talking about the game and evaluating it's units, factions, etc. I'd love to see more content like this.
Actually, when you spoke about summon unit, you've made me thinking that, you should have add hero units and lords, in the tier ranking.
edit: great tier ranking btw.
Brilliant tier list again ! Can't wait for tomb kings and wood elves
Legend, please do a Dwarves tierlist? As much as I love my short-man-syndrome beardy bois, while I enjoy some of the units immensely, it feels like they don't perform as well as the stats suggest
For me, dwarves are one of those races that perform waaay better when played by the AI than when i play them. For example, longbeards, mine tend to do nothing while the enemy holds the front and get a lot of kills, slayers, same problem, (of course, I run mostly ranged units armies, but I dont like going full doomstacks or super strong armies, I like some balanced armies even though I know they underperform), but yeah, same with greenskins, I just cant do the same as the AI
One of the problem with Dwarfs is that their units are all relatively expensive, but can be taken out by lower tier units with relative ease, due to the fact that especially ranged units perform way too well in this game. Everytime I see the damage basic goblin or orc archers do to a unit of Hammerers or Ironbreakers of mine, I can only shake my head and ask myself what the point of fielding high tier melee infantry is.
This! Arrer boys with poor accuracy trait absolutely shreds hammerers what a joke ...
To add to this, the majority of dwarf units don't get silver missile parry. Have you seen their shields, compared to their size? Goblins get silver missile parry...
Question for you is probably what battle difficulty you are on.
If it’s very hard, or even hard, that might be the reason that they aren’t performing well.
Warpfire throwers, I've had EXTREMELY good luck putting them in a ratling/jezail/plagueclaw army as either a frontline or flank protection unit, depending on the fight. I've tried Doomwheels, I've tried Doomflayers, I've tried Abominations, against all of them I prefer my Warpfire throwers simply because they benefit so much MORE from post-battle unit replenishment if I need it. Also because holy crap do they melt infantry units.
I had pet rats recently.
Because of time and effort issues, I found them a new owner. She's really taking good care of them and why im writing this in the first place, she gave all of them names from the Skavens, which made me look up a few of the characters/units.
The Piercing Armour Variant of Wolf Rats can be quite useful at the beginning of Throt's campaign, when you're up against the Norse Dwarves and have nothing to oppose them besides the Skaven Slaves and Clanrats who cannot dish out any damage on a Dawi. Instead, you use them as cannon fodder and let the Wolf Rats attack them in the back.
Uhm you can just nuke them with mutations.
Still love the skaven. Simply because they play differently to other races.
Even if you have different clans you might have a bit different armies.
The only race where you build different armies I think are the Tomb Kings, simply because you have to with them
Beastmen now too (or well, not have to, but eh kinda still)
Beastmen as well nowadays
Vampire coast is kinda different too.
@@jktuert8630 Vampire Coast is Empire with extra steps
Yep, with the worst melee infantry roster in the game, no real cavalry, no fliers and heaps of summons they're really unique
I’ve had very good luck in the early game getting a couple plagueclaw catapults, warpfire throwers, a brood horror mount for the pack master and some of the wolf rats and then leadership bombing the edges of the formation. The wolf rats are slept on for their ability to hunt down stuff with their poison or magical attacks and high armor piercing. Can kill reiksguard real good. I think that’s a good early game army on a budget
Hello! With the rebalance of melee units in Warhammer 3, is it possible to have this tier list redone? As a rat myself, I cannot deny the sheer dread that man-things expirience under ratling gun's fire. But I have to wonder, maybe plague monks, sneaky boys and some monsters, such as rat ogres and a mutant one, deserve a higher placement now.
Loving this series, it's very helpful as a relative newbie to Total Warhammer. Hope you do all the races!
For me the doomwheel always runs thru all human sized infantry, one of my favorite moves is having one run straight through an archer line with a flaming skull directly behind it. The combined knockdown and damage is devastating, not to mention the coolest looking thing you can do in the whole game
Skaven don't have access to lore of fire though unless you're using mods
@@lucasluck8890 True, this guy got caught lying :))))
I do recognize that this is an objectively correct tier list to how you should play the game optimally, but the bad, and underperforming units are extreamly funny to use, so I do not care.
there's a kinda niche use for rat ogres that I think Legend overlooked: they nock down city gates in seconds. I know there are far more effective ways for skaven to take sieges than gate-rushing, but if you want to do that, rat ogres are your friends; they'll nock out the gate in an instant, then surge through to make room for the follow-up.
Plague claw catapults also knock down a gate in second and they can actually kill something after they've done that.
The follow-up being dying in a second, and if you're also using good monsters (like mutant rat ogres, broodhorrors and/or hellpit monsters) them all you need to do is to set your lords and heroes on one side and the monsters hidden on the forest, then rush the gates while the enemy army is across the map.
one way to fix skaven normal clan infantry could be to allow them to summon lower tier units, stormvermin summoning clanrats and the later summoning skavenslaves, to really nail the endless amount of vermin down
Loving the tier lists Legend! Keep them coming thanks
Just a few notes about the poison wind globardiers, mortars, the poison damage can and will affect your own troops, so make sure you're careful with what you throw at
Also, gutter/night runner slingers have twice as much ammo as the night runner or gutter runner basic units.
Do you honestly think Skaven and Skaven players care about friendly fire?
Makes me want a hero tier list for every faction with recommendations on what skills /how you use them in battle
A hero tier list by itself is a bit meaningless because their placement should be in respect to the armies to which they belong. Legend should include them in these tier lists he is doing.
Can we do a Beastmen tier list next, Now that they're viable? Would be cool to hear your thoughts now that they're a playable faction. They've been in the dirt for so long, And it would be interesting since they're mostly a melee faction.
Why do a tier list for op faction tho
I think he'll eventually do a tier list for every race. I'd bet Tomb Kings are next.
Edit: I guess Empire or Dwarfs are next.
Yes please
@@bigbirdflying6330 but he just did it for skaven... skaven is literally the most op faction in the game, in players hands that is. Weapon teams are just so powerful especially with ikit claw.
YESSS. Now legend can't do the "IF melee THEN trash" bit.
The analysis in each section is really helpful. Appreciate you explaining how even trash units can be useful in the right situation.
Spear & shield clan rats are pretty nice in early game, they aren't too costly, and they tend to live long enough for ranged units to to the job.
This is awesome, hearing you gush over the skaven roster is very cool. Hope we get more of these!
Excellent Tier lists, would like to see Hero tier lists eventually, because I myself can make easy unit choices, but considering how many heroes and wizards are there in warhammer total war, despite being experience player who was able to beat the game few times on very hard/very hard, I still dont know all the heroes, hardly a portion of them in fact.
Wizards are easy. Fire, life, and vampires are extremely strong lores.
And maybe also wich Lord to choose, for some race like VC, their are many possibilities
Plague Priests S tier 😂
Let's get an empire units roster next, great video.
Loving these! Really would love to see an Empire list!!
In this case of the Skaven, the Trash unites are the beloved and most used units :P ... For the sake of being bodies send to the slaughter...
CA... If you see this... Give Skaven the option for a (WAGH) 10-15 meatshield second stack of just Slaves or Clan Rats.
Or add technology that reduce their upkeep to zero.
Because the Skaven desperately need a buff 😂
@@artyom-ei2mf In regards of not being a summon faction? Yeah Deffo need a tweaking.
Amazing tier list as always! Empire tier list as next would be great!
Wow in so much agreement here including the reasoning behind the choices. The only changes I would have made would be to swap the Mutant Rat Ogre and Hell Pit Abomination around and to relegate Warp Grinders all the way to Trash (they really are bad). Both Death Runners and Triads have an argument to be in B tier but can also totally see them in C tier as well.
I used to get Doomwheels for mounts until I realised that Doom Flayers are much much better mounts (Brood Horrors are obviously the best mounts but characters who use Doom Flayers can't get Brood Horrors anyway). I hadn't noticed the upkeep increase in slingers, thanks for the heads up.
Great vid once again!
Lowkey Skryre filling up the top tiers...greatest best inventors yes-yes!
So happy to see you staying with this series and keeping up with the hasty uploads!
I sometimes feel that the big problem with melee infantry is that they are too non threatening. Sure dealing damage isn't their primary purpose. But I feel that melee infantry should get some kind of ability to swarm single entities. Like maybe some kind of outnumbering bonus. Have a large monster count as many entities. But make it so that if you only take monsters they are going to get severely hampered. It's actually ridiculous that a lot of these monsters can wade into ranked infantry completely unsupported and come out unscathed.
Absolutely loving this series! These tier lists are fun to watch
nice to see some love to the globadiers. I feel like they're too often slept on but you can get them pretty early and their damage is incredible and even with tech buffs alone they're gonna be paying for themselves easily even later in the campaign. people complain about their firing ark but it doesn't take much to get their speed up pretty good and just basic flanking will make them even more death dealers especially against cav, Death Globs are second only to ratling guns when making cav charges stop in their tracks.
These tierlists are very useful, thank you Legend!
'sometimes it feels [CA] specifically nerfes [legends] preferred units'. They sure do.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 who spat on your cereal?
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 Erh, sure. Actually i should play Skaven sometime. Do you have a good idea about a good first time Skaven start? I feel like Thrott and Ikit might be a tad too OP for a normal skaven experience.
@@svenbrede6151 Queek for 'generic' Skaven
Honestly, Ikit and Thrott are the most fun
Your enthusiasm for the Skaven has inspired me, my next campaign will be Skaven for sure.
always waiting for my favorite faction even if Legend doesnt like them
bring on the dwarfs and their grudges, would be an interesting video with discussions about how the different units work together because you cant really go without variaty in dwarf armys with all their sturdy infantry and the deadly artillery and missile units
Khazukan Kazakit-Ha!
Man, I don't comment a lot, I only watch a lot, but Legend. Awesome videos! Love this one! Take care lad!
I feel like you should have included the heroes in these lists so we can see how critical it is to include them or if we can doomstack them like vampires
Skaven have the most diverse subfactions in my opinion with each of the clans having unique functions, abilities and playstyles, depending on witch you play as you army comp may be completely different as you make use of each clans strengths, you seem to be more of a eshin or skyre man thing, molder plays different, it makes monster armies much more effective and also nullifies recruitment costs for slaves and monsters, wolfrats are extreamly effective if used right and can easily delete units in seconds, snip artillery, cav and chariots depending on the chariots, and shed high value units, the main thing is you can't treat them like fodder or stuff or leave them in prolonged fights, they are very fast and easy to move around the battle field, they are good for focusing down annoying cav and stuff and good for flanking, and breaking units if you have 5 or so groups of wolfrats and group them all together you can move them around rushing any exposed or isolated units breaking them rather quickly and doing good damage, they are good reconsivness and are able to break off an engagement and rengage quickly so you can dessimate a units then break off as help comes then fuck up another units and just bounce around like that till their army starts to fall apart, then is when they really shine, wolfrats are some of the best units for dealing damage to broken units its easy for them them to get hundreds of kills per unit from the fact that once a unit is broken they can shed them extreamly fast to the last man or troll or horse or whatever, witch is why it's good to be selective in engagements and why they are good to have all groups together till you win and can have them split up to chase down people, as grouped together and flanking as they can break isolated or flanked units rather quickly and once they do they are quickly do a ton of damage and remove units from the battle it may be best to not bother finishing them all off unless they are a high value unit you wand dead rather just crippling them so they are no longer an issue till before targeting a new unit then finishing then off after you win, cuz often you don't need to fully eliminate a unit if you get it low enough they will either shatter and run off the map or regroup but be so low that they will immediately route once they go near an enemy witch makes them extreamly easy to deal with later, admittedly wolfrats are kinda trash for non-molder armies but are still effective at running down broken units so even as a non molder army bringing 1 or 2 can be good just to have them chase down things, though as molder I find they reliably win battles as the primary damage dealers hitting way above their price point(their ussuly free for molder but even if they weren't) with minimal to no damage taken alot of them time, not that that's matters as they you can have the healed or replaced in a single turn. Admittedly standard rat ogres are kinda shit, but when you get them for free they can be worth making over skaven slaves if you don't need them, wolf rats do way more damage then rat ogres in battles, and rat ogres die way more often, though molder is also able to improve units to make units more effective witch can make ratoges usable for a verity of functions, you can turn them in to tougher unbreakable ones that are a actually not bad at keeping units busy and disturbing formations, however Mutate Rat ogres are not bad and can be used to keep units busy as tanks and deal out damage, they are slower then brood horrors but it not slow either, and has better leadership, melee attack, melee defence, weapon strength, magical attack, physical resistance and more health witch makes them better in prolonged fights they are good at killing lords, infinity, cav, chariots, and weapons teams as they can often just push though to kill units In the back and are tanky enough they don't need to be baby sat, they have scurrying away as well witch makes them fast when their leader ship is lowered making them faster then alot of cav allowing it to chase down things normally faster then it after it has taken some damage, at the end of battle and stuff and unlike normal rat ogres they ussuly are good at keep themselves alive if you leave then in a fight unsupervised, I generally find they do better then broodhorrors when left in combat, well brood horrors are often good treated as giant wolfrats flanking and picking off vulnerable enemies, though are also able to be left in fights for a bit, I find it's better to keep an eye on them if you do send then up against lords and stuff. aside from standard rat ogres all the molder units are good.
I'd like to see the empire, since it's one faction that have lots of units and often requires a more balanced army approach
Playing co-op campaign with my brother I would keep 3 or 4 flayers in my army so I could control the weapon teams whilst he just micro managed the flayers all game. Worked incredibly well.
Would you consider doing a tier list for hero's? There may be a weird number of them or might not be that useful but I think it would be fun to compare them directly!
Difficulty with that is the relevance in their own faction and the added utility of the campaign map. Plague Priest's are amazing casters who can easily win battles alone but they cant cheese the economy like HE wizards or cause major campaign map shenanigans. It ends up being like comparing a bin to a couch.
Man, I'm so grateful for the way you've compiled this video. I don't just mean the graphics but all the real to game information that you're throwing out there. I have way too many hours to still be rubbish at this game and a lot of it comes down to laziness. When you talk about how you should play the skaven though, I think I might actually put in the effort.
With that, you won't be surprised to know that i had been stacking their armies kinda "traditionally", as in I've been using the infantry.. Id usually have 6 units and then I would also of course have some of the catapults, some rattlign guns but I have recently fallen in love with the purple bombardiers. They do the sickest amount of damage. I just bought the DLC to get those brood horrors too. will. The best part of all of this though was the tier surprises. I'll definitely be rebuilding an army with this in mind. TY man ;)
My doom stack Skaven army, Plague lord/Ikit, 3 plague priests, 2 warlock engineers, 4 ratling gunners, 4 jezzails, 2 poison motors, 2 plague claw catapults, and 2 warp lightning cannons. That's my go to but will tweak depending on what campaign and who I'm trying to kill. Avalanche motors are broken tbh, way too good. Hell pit abomination I've never had 1 meet the price to performance unless I made a doom stack of them and even then it was very iffy.
Note about Warp Lightning cannons: The main thing they outclass Jezzails at is dealing with Artillery Monsters, such as Stegadons, Bone(r) Giants and Steam Tanks. They have superior range and are less susceptible to return fire. By the time your Jezzails got into range to shoot the enemy Steam Tank for example, they lost half their entities and are likely routing, Warp Lightning cannons don't have this problem and because the artillery monster will likely sit completely still, accuracy isn't a problem either.
Also, unlike regular artillery, Monstrous artillery can't be properly dealt with by menace below, so you need something to actually kill them.
The interesting thing about Warp Lightning Cannon is that even when I put them in an army with Plagueclaw Catapults, they tend to get more kills overall against most armies, whether they're infantry heavy or mixed with Cav. Their piercing shots don't seem to do as much damage as the plague shots on impact, but over time they just rack up so many kills.
Well yes...their shots kill and often. overkill. cati gets damage tho. same as mortars/globes. crazy damage not necessarily kills
@@sclarke6969 Huh, interesting point. I haven't played much Skaven since the update that tracked the damage dealt by each unit. I'll have to run a skyre campaign to test their output now... Maybe make a spreadsheet over the battles and define the parameters by terrain and army compositions. That should be fun-fun.
I think Wood Elves might be a fairly contentious one, so look forward to you doing a tier list on them
Interesting. I agree with most of these, but I find myself disagreeing with Rat Ogres. I used to find them as trash, but they seem to rack up kills somehow and are not as expensive as mutant rat ogres, so I wouldn't put rat ogres that low. I'm honestly not a fan of Mutant Rat Ogres because Brood Horrors are just so much better for the cost.
I think they're decent vs cavalry, not that good vs infantry, and they actually kill heroes pretty well as they have good animations with armor piercing. They don't hit as hard as other units, but still do the job
I always considered Rat ogres as an anti-flanking unit. They do decent versus cavalry.
Keep the tier lists coming! These are a great way to learn about races that someone doesn't play a lot of.
I like how the entire melee is just under trash.
Thanks for the video! My vote is for Empire, since it is a lot harder for me to explain the better units for them to use than teaching someone how to play Dwarves.
Once you do all armies, you could do this with heroes/landmark buildings as well. Be interesting.
Honestly watching your videos has really helped me out in my campaigns keep the content coming
I hope we get some more Skaven content soon. Not had anything for a while :-(
ikit shenanigans?
Ideally I'd like to see Klawmunkast plus his tank variations and Huskk Gnawbone offering a Skaven Necromancer build.
Dang there are factions with just 1 dlc while Skaven Skaven already have 3 + being a core race. And you complain that you want more? I mean the 2nd last DLC for WH2 was Skaven, not that long ago really?
Your post has been flagged for anti Skaven rhetoric.
@@alexshaw4182 that would be so sweet!
For me you nailed it.
How you rate skaven is how I now play skaven.
I used to go stormvermin hard.
But then I played at higher difficulties and started to see them running away a lot.
Took me ages to get good wit jezzals, kept picking bad spots wea they couldn't shoot, or putting them way up front and isolated, or leaving skirmish mode on so they never shot and constantly ran away.
Now I can't play skaven without them and rattling guns and at least 2 plaugewind Mortars now too.
Turning on Guard mode and turning off skirmish helped the most.
Some predictions I have: Most melee infantry: Trash
Plague monk censer bearers: C tier, maybe B. Could be doomstack with moulder but that needs a lot of effort
Poisoned wind globadiers: probably C or B, just cause they do so much friendly fire, sometimes to themselves
Death Globes: Maybe A because they can do so much damage
Night Runners and Gutter runners probably B tier, poison variant A tier
Skavenslave slingers A tier maybe, other variants C tier
Ratling Guns, Jezzails, pestilent wind mortars all S tier
Plageclaws S tier, Warp lightning cannons A tier
Doomwheels either A or B, Doomflayers probably A. Brood horrors doomstack, mutant rat ogres A tier, rat ogres C tier and I have no clue about Hell Pit abominations. I’ve probably forgotten a lot of the roster, like wolf rats, but who ever recruits them anyway?
P.S. Sub-trash for stormvermin
Bro i love these and need these now because i just got into Warhammer II after all these years i got Troy and returned it after 2 hours and finally pulled the trigger on Warhammer even though i know nothing about it your Dark Elf one helped me out a ton!
If you could do either an Empire one or a those Egyptian dudes next that would be cool if not that's cool too just keep doing these big boss
You could also recommend some army comps at the end of this type of videos.
Gotta love legend pumping out tier lists these days. I look forward to these all the time. Love it! Keep it up!!
You could finish out the Warhammer 2 races and then start on the game one factions.
That sounds like a great idea! Having the Noctilus campaign so fresh in our minds could be the next sensible step... Even though it would be Necrofexes as doomstacks, corpses and Queen Bess (a weird case of a RoR not being an upgrade of an existing unit) lying somewhere between A and B and then everything else rated as trash.
Love all of the new ideas you are exploring on your channel. Especially value where you walk through your thinking on various things. Potential future idea would be heroes - which to prioritize, traits to look for (and how important they really are, or are not), how to rank them up, and what they are especially useful for. I confess that I often skip around your old campaigns to get reminders on how you tend to do that or think about that. Could do the same with lords. Another idea would be technologies - good, bad, ugly, and priorities and why. Cheers mate - keep up the amazing work!
Ew melee units ~legen probably
Haha the bait and switch with the Stormvermin.
Thanks for these tier lists, Legend. Some of your best work.
Dwarves next would be cool.
Lol at Legend talking about CA constantly nerfing his playstyle, his whole playstyle revolves around exploiting things in the game so it makes sense they target those things right XD
I'd love to see Empire or Greenskins as the next video - Empire because their roster is really well balanced so it would be interesting to see the minutiae that you consider making one better than another, and Greenskins because of scrap upgrades (a necessary consideration, given the boosts they give) and being a primarily melee-focused faction that's actually good at it.
Furst lol
Congratulations
turd
Congratulations
Funny enough, in tabletop, slaves are your go-to core unit. With 2 or 3 points per model you can just drown your enemy in a rat tsunami. Very few armies have enough attacks to crash a horde of slaves, and even if they do, you could easily take 2 or 3 hordes with very little cost.
They should play like that here...
That's what I wanted to play, hoards of expendable troops.
All legendary lords tier list ? I love this tier lists videos .
loving this series. Would you consider showing one or two examples of good stacks after the ranking? I know it depends a lot about who you are facing and the general you are using, but perhaps a couple of examples of good all-round stacks could be a good starting point to work upon. Keep up the good work :)
Great tierlist, I've previously ignored the gutterrunners etc but will definitely check them out now
Been really looking forwards to this! Thank you for all the hard work and effort you put into your job!
Gutter runners are no joke in a clan eshin campaign. The added bonuses to AP allowed me to take on one of those special landmark battles where a bunch of skinwolves and war mammoths spawned within the first 10 turns and I managed to win using my gutter runners and the starting death runners and triads. Was incredible to see.
I started a Tiktaqto campaign after watching the Lizardmen roster ranking vid and I gotta say, it feels liberating not to worry about Saurus at all. Tiktaqto's stack is right proper Top Gun now. Thanks Legend, you've helped me immensely in enjoying this game past 2.2K hours.
After Empire, which feels inevitable, I'd vote for Tomb Kings.
Heyo, really excited for you to cover the Empire, doing a Balthazar Gelt playthrough rn and it can be confusing on which units are better 😅
Hell storm rocket batteries
I'd love to see this done with reference to normal difficulty - just because at the moment this isn't really a Tier Ranking - it's a TR specifically for L/VH, where melee infantry will have a huge disadvantage. So every single video will end up with powerful missile infantry and artillery always ending up at or near the top, regardless of the race.
Except dwarves :P (and Caos, who don't have missile xD)
wow life changing inspiring made my day. But seriously thanks for this Legend. Really helpful videos, makes me more comfortable with playing factions Ive never tried before
Would absolutely love to see the Empire next on a tier list. Sigmar's blessings yes!
Damn, legend really cranking these out... and I love it. More, more! Yes, yes!
Please keep making these videos... I just discovered this. Please do units of renown and lords/heroes too. So much content potential bro.
Thanks for the Video, great as always! Skaven are my favourite race. Would love to see Beastmen and Wood Elves, too!
Great video Legend, thanks. I know why you don't want to include lords in these videos but I think it would be really good to include heroes to give people an idea of which heroes are good and for what situations, etc. Or maybe do a separate video on heroes. Food for thought. Thanks again!
Super useful, I was so confused with all the thing-runners and blobadiers stuff I'd never build them and kept using only Weapon teams + Slingerslaves stacks !😊
stormvermins as a doomstack.. you almost got me there legend
Really liking these. The content I've been looking for.
These are great, always hoped you'd do some kind of faction guides!