Me and my wife attended your conference down in North Carolina earlier this year, and you prayed over us for infertility issues. Now, less than six months later, my wife is pregnant for the first time ever. It has been almost 5 years of marriage for us and I believe God answered prayers at that conference. I would ask for continued prayer since the health issues cause issues in pregnancy. Thank you.
Me and my friends were behind you at that conference and prayed for you! I actually have thought of you guys and prayed for you since that conference! (If you are in fact the same couple)
This is wonderful news! We also struggled with infertility for almost 10years, now we have just welcomed our 2nd child SUPERNATURALLY!! May God keep you all to see the arrival of your baby, healthy and ready to fulfil their God-given purpose.
Edit: just wanted to let TRR know I have before X-rays and would be happy to send them in! I had scoliosis with a major curve in my spine and neck. It was visible. I was with a group of ministry friends praying for one another and then asked for prayer over my back. I had taken my shirt off so they could see if my spine still had a curve after the first prayer. It felt better but one spot was in pain and curved still. My brother in Christ said, “let this spin come into alignment with the will of Jesus.” They watched my spine move and I have remained free of that disease!
Michael Miller was at my church in January for a prophetic conference. On the second day, Michael shared with the audience about how he was at another conference and a woman came up who had no arches came up and he prayed for her and she got arches. As I was listening to his testimony, I felt the Holy Spirit overwhelm my feet and legs (felt like electricity). I am trying to process in my mind while this is happening and asking the Lord did you just give me arches. I had arch supports for low arches for like 30 years. I walked out that night holding those supports in my hands. No one touched me or prayed for except Jesus touched me and it always interceding for me.
"Jesus always healed openly in front of large crowds" ok what about those times he sent everyone out of the room so he didn't have to deal with their mockery of unbelief?
what you used to think was wrong. Because healing is clearly not the "big sign" of Christ's true followers. What you think now is also wrong..... because if it is a miracle from God then physical healings are also real miracles... not just changed hearts.
@@nomadicrecovery1586 it will end when we see face to face. Have you seen Jesus face to face? Have you seen him coming in the clouds and stablishing his kingdom?
My grandmother was healed from stage 4 cancer in the late 60s and lived another 44 years until the Lord called her home. Sometimes people don't get healed and sometimes they do, we don't always know God's plan until later on down the road. In my grandmother's case, she left the dead legalistic denomination she grew up in, got born again/baptized in the Holy Spirit and all of her descendants are serving the Lord.
I randomly met John MacArthur in Colorado Springs. He was very nice and spent about 15 or 20 minutes with me. We talked about his beliefs about the gift of prophecy. His primary reason for not believing in the gifts was that he wasn't seeing them at work around him, and that he's seen false prophecies, etc. Bottom line is he's a pragmatist, which is ironic because he has a video series on the problem of pragmatism. So, he's interpreting scripture based on his experience, not on what it says.
concur 100%....and i love John Mac However, if you dig deeply, he's not REALLY a cessationist.....still believes God does miracles.....just not as in the 1st century...( as you said, he hasn't seen it ) Problem is, those who are not cessationists are SILENT for the most part, on all the fake and deceptive stuff out there... That's a sad fact
It's a shame he doesn't put himself in situations/places where the gift of prophecy occurs. Surely he'll know someone who is a continuationsist who can show him how the gift of prophecy occurs and is done well and Bibliacally....I would suspect he wouldn't want to be seen associating with those people though I guess....bit of a catch twenty-two really....
We can still be pragmatic while acknowledging the problems and limits of pragmatism. There is a strong argument that we're all pragmatists in one way or another--we have to interpret the world from our perspective, which is bounded by our experiences.
Too bad he didn't stop in to see Andrew Wommack (O what a snake), not that I'm a fan of JMac and his neo-Calvinism. Thanks for that comment. Blessings to you and yours in Christ.
May I just add that I believe that ALL healing is ultimately from God - no matter how it comes about, how long it takes, naturally or through medication. The issue is what constitutes "miraculous" healing like Jesus was doing.
God does not heal through medication. Despite what many "Christians" believe, the Bible calls the administering of medication "sorcery" in Galatians in Revelation. This is backed up by 2 Kin. 1 where King Ahaziah consults Beelzebub for healing instead of God. Relying on medication is the same as consulting a false god, in which case a person is not following the true God.
I have seen people healed as a young man and that cured me of any cessationist notions! I have been healed of major joint pain (I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis) where I couldn't raise my arm over my head during prayer at my local fellowship. It may not impress JMac, but it was significant to me and I praise God for it! I saw a woman's leg grow about two inches, a woman who had a short leg into her 60s(!) when we prayed for her during a camp meeting service! She took off her orthopedic shoe and never wore it again! Praise God!! John MacArthur will never see a miracle because he doesn't want to! He has staked his claim in cessationist beliefs and I believe he would rather be "right" than move off his position.
Be careful about the "leg growing" thing! A lot of deception going around especially on this! I believe in healing, however I was told a person with cerebral palsy or MS was healed and she started dancing around. I haven't been told if she's still healed, I believe that's the proof. I myself, fell on my knees and was in great pain but no doctor was open. That night I prayed for Jesus to heal me. Later, I felt like a cold sensation over and around my knee. Then I knew I could get up and walk on it. When I went to the workman's comp doctor it was basically healed except some swollen ness and a bruise.
In a kingdom of blind men, the one-eyed man is king. The cessationists can't go about bemeaning the charismatics for stepping out into the open waters while they are calmly seated in the boat.
I was healed 72 hours before I was supposed to die! This was in 2005. I was not touched nor spoken to by the Lord. It was my faith that absolutely healed me! My surgeons’ were surprised I even woke up and wrote on a paper to pull out my endotracheal tube or I would take it out! I begged for water and the surgeon told me I would choke to death. I said, “Try me!” The nurse brought me one small ice chip so when I choked I could spit out the water. I sucked on a whole cup of ice that another nurse brought me. I was so happy that I was discharged in 3 days! My FAITH in the Word of God healed me and I told the world! Anyone who would listen, I spoke about my healing! ❤✝️
Hi guys, great video! The woman with the issue of blood touched Jesus' Prayer shawl tassels and was healed. He only spoke to her after He felt power going out from Him, and so he never spoke to her for healing or touched her. I find it difficult with people like Mr. Macarthur because all he appears to do is point the finger and judge others, particularly people in the world, that Paul told us not to judge. Why isn't he calling out the erroneous teaching or the heresy that's taught by starting with himself. The only videos that I see come up with him appear to be about judging people in the world or speaking against the gifts of the Holy Spirit today. Blessings 🙌
Mac actually has some good points...and many "continuationists" (of which I am one, just so there is no confusion) are mislabeling the healing that God is doing (today) as "gift(s) of healing" when that is NOT what it is.
J Mac is a good preacher. He sincerely wants believers to truly believe. Not be self deceived as those who find out at judgement. Which are many. Did not we heal and cast out demons in your name?
@Keith Fuson "We are not Jesus and we don't live in that dispensation..Most claims are exaggerated and embellished." If you're in pain for over a year and get INSTANTLY healed through a word of knowledge and prayer, you are not likely to say "most claims are exaggerated." When you're the one in pain who is healed, exaggeration is not a word that enters your mind. I have been there.
This was a very thoughtful, very logical, and clear response to cessationist. I appreciate it so much and can't wait for Ruslan KD to share his thoughts on this 😅.
Something like Dr. Michael Brown would say, even if every thing John MacArthur opened with was true, in that we don't see that stuff happening today, it would still have nothing to do with what scripture says to be true. Cessassionists primarily use arguments from experience. "We don't experience this, therefore it doesn't happen anymore."
@theremnantradio Why do you conflate MacArthur with all cessationists? Also, what cessationists do you know that deny that God heals in response to prayer?
As someone who went to Seminary/Bible school in the early 80's and subsequently served many years churchplanting, conference speaking, fasting, fighting devils, dodging bullets, and robbing graves in the mountain fastnesses of latin America and who raised 4 kids and now has grand kids- all the while with John Piper's Desiring God book by my side (Since 1985) and proofs of the Holy Ghost on the right and on the left- I would say that you guys are YOUNG and more than anything else I could say to you is that...your opinions about almost everything WILL CHANGE as you get closer to seeing Jesus with your own eyes. get ready!
If you ever been in great pain and gotten healed (which I have three times, though one was not painful), you will not deny that healing gifts exist (and mine were through words of knowledge followed by prayer for my condition).
Though the most common healing we see are indeed healing of various pains, we also see bones growing in length as well as deaf ears being opened. One of the wildest our church has experienced is when after a healing training, we sent the participants out the practice in the community. One person had no bone at the tip of his index finger. He saw several with uneven arms being healed but he said that team should not pray for him because his arms were even but it was that he didn't have a bone at the tip of one of his index fingers. He thought that God could not heal that. However, one of the ladies grabbed his finger and commanded that the bone to appear. After she removed her hand, there was bone. This happened instantaneously. The cut the story short, the man put his faith in Christ.
This is Incredibly important push back! Doing so with respect, for the church to stand firm on scripture EVEN in the gifts. Thank you for this because many of us in the body of Christ have been sorely ashamed at some of the false healers that go unchecked. YET, the abuse of the gifts does not negate the giftings of God. It is important to remain respectful, biblically detailed and thoughtful. Thank you for being that voice!
Speaking of healing back pain. I felt and heard my back “pop” into place at the 2019 Convergence conference. It was at a word of command by Sam Storms from the stage…. I was not expecting it to happen. PTL
I've heard you guys argue frequently against "instant" healing with the lepers who were healed as they went as well as the blind man who saw men like trees. My pushback is it wasn't days, months, or years later. It was still shortly after or during the encounter. I don't think those compare to people not experiencing healing and being told to just believe for it. Thoughts?
I think the point is that "instant" healing doesn't compare with the lepers who were healed as they went or the blind man who saw men like trees or, as you say, "shortly after." Indeed, "shortly after" is not "instant." We can debate about how long is too long, but the point is that the cessationist argument that all healings have to occur on the first try is wrong. Does that make sense? What purpose would Jesus' parable for the disciples to not give up praying serve if every healing prayer happened immediately (Luke 18:1-8)?
Such weak arguments/response. You guys are missing the whole point of John MacArthur. He's basically saying that Jesus and Apostles were able to heal people any time they wanted and however they wanted, they didn't have to do various stuffs one after another to heal someone. But today we don't see anything like that. And if you say you have the gift of healing you must be able to heal all deceased whenever and on whoever you wished. And I would say, If anyone gets healed today, it's because God out of His mercy healed them & not because one having the gift on healing healed them.
Jesus healed people through the power of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:38), and so did the apostles. Even the apostles, who were given power and authority by Jesus to heal diseases and cast out demons (Matthew 10:1) could not heal a boy in Matthew 17:16-18 because of the disciples' unbelief.
@@explodingrubberducky797 ofcourse Apostles had authority and the power of the Holy Spirit to heal the sick. But if we apply that thing now then every time I prays with belief I must be able to heal the sick, and if the person doesn't get healed that should mean that I didn't have enough belief. Right? I have two partially blind brothers. Hundreds of pastors and so called prophets have prayed for them, but they haven't got healed yet. So according to your reasoning all of them didn't have enough belief ? I would still say if someone gets healed it's because of God's mercy not because some one with the gift of healing prayed for him. Because, if that was so then my brothers would have been healed by now.
@@Yowashpatel 1)I don't know you or your brothers and neither do I know those who prayed for your them, so I can't speak definitively to your situation, and I wasn't doing so. I was providing scriptural evidence for people(the disciples) who were given the authority to heal every diseases & cast out demons who could not do what they were given the power to do because of their unbelief, according to Matthew 17:16-18. And this goes against the view that McArthurs espouses that "Apostles were able to heal people any time they wanted and however they wanted." 2) I find it interesting that in the discourse of Matthew 17, Jesus puts the onus on the disciples to heal the boy and chastises them for not doing so since he had already given them the authority to do so prior. I don't mean this to be contentious. Just my 2 cents on the issue
@@AfricanSheep Matthew 17:19-20 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, *“Why could we not cast it out?”* 20 So Jesus said to them, *“Because of your unbelief;* for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. In Matthew 17:20, above, Jesus says their unbelief is the reason they were unable to drive out the devil.
Yeah. I’m not gonna lie. My dad loves Johnny Mac, and I was excited to listen to this with him, but because of how you approached the discussion, I likely will not. 😞
@@mikecasale438 (so I’m not mad writing this, I think it’s easy to read these comments with condemnation or irritation… just wanna preface my attitude lol)… I suppose, when there’s someone I love dearly (my father) who really loves someone’s work (Johnny Mac’s), before sending it to someone I listen to it “with their ears/eyes/hearts” and kinda ask myself “would this tone/approach make me defensive if they were talking about someone I really enjoyed?” And although I really really really enjoy RR, and they’re normally very kind, compassionate, level-headed, in 99.9% of their content, they just kinda let their frustrations out in this video. Which- I understand, but I guess was this meant to be a refuting video meant for John MacArthur viewers to watch and be persuaded on? Or a venting session for others who disagree with him? Etc. I think it’s challenging when you’re defending yourself to an audience who is in agreement with you, but if they imagined they were having this conversation in the front of Grace community church- I’d bet their tone would have been different. Which I think signifies that they let their frustration on this topic kinda show through. So. I guess…. I was hopeful it was going to be kind and gentle enough for me to watch with (or send to) my dad, but I won’t be… if that makes sense. I’m not sure you would waste your time to rewatch the video and listen to it with “new ears” based on a random TH-camrs comment, with a willingness to see what I’m talking about, but you could do that and see what I’m meaning. And the thing that sucks about an hour long video is that if they only “go off the rails” and vent and let loose a little it kinda “spoils” the whole video if you know what I mean. Ps: I do know that there will always be offended people, and I know nobody is perfect, so there’s grace and forgiveness there, but I just wanted to kinda comment from the perspective of someone who’s between charasmatic viewpoints and a jmac-following loved one. Sorry for the novel if you ever even read this 😂
Does he not believe the Lord still heals thru prayer , or is it he doesn't believe in the spiritual gift of healing bestowed on individuals in the church.
Not sure, that that's why Justin Peters is a John Calvin disciple. He's made because he went to a healing service and didn't get healed. He also doesn't believe in confession of faith either.
My dad was instantly healed from back pain that never returned until he died almost 2 decades later. It happened while we were worshipping while watching a Christian program on TV in a hotel room. In my opinion, a plain reading of the Bible does not in any way support cessationism unless one approaches it with preconceived ideas.
I don't agree with MacArthur on cessationism or with his logic on why the gifts have ceased, but his desire to expose people who claim to have gifts and heal people is understandable. If you look at the people he has in mind, who purport to heal people, you will find false doctrine, ungodliness, dubious healings and money scams. If you asked MacArthur if he believed God heals today, he would probably say yes, but not by the circus performers, but by the elders of the church coming together and praying for the sick.
“Healing is the children’s bread” - so I guess they believe that the ‘children’ don’t deserve bread anymore or that God stops providing bread for His people.
I just don't see where in the Bible it says the gifts supposedly cease. I see 1 Corinthians 13 it says charity never faileth and puts prophecies and tongues and knowledge in contrast. But 14:1 says to desire gifts. Are we supposed to think he didn't mean to say that directly after? How is that supposed to support cessationism? 1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church This he says RIGHT after 1 Corinthians 13. 1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. So do we no longer have signs for them that believe not? Do we no longer serveth them that believe? If 1 Corinthians 13 says the gifts will cease, why does he say to desire them so in 1 Corinthians 14. Simple; it is saying the gifts will not cease until he shall appear and we see him as he is, 1 John 3. Ephesians 4 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ, he gave gifts unto men. He gave us some apostles and some prophets and so on for the perfecting of the body UNTIL we all come in the unity of the faith. Q: are we all in the unity of the faith, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ? I think not yet. The idea that the gifts have ceased is a tradition of men that nullifies the word of God and goes directly against the written scripture.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever. Who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil. Those statements are either true or they're not. I believe.
As far as healing people kind of go around with this Stern mentality whether it's God's will to heal or not. I believe it's our duty to have faith in the healer. If we don't see it manifest. Ultimately we don't know but we do our duty of having faith in who he is Jehovah Rapha.
I'm curious to know why nobody has any concerns or comments that John MacArthur's megachurch has claims of pedophilia and abuse being tolerated. This includes an elder stepping and leaving due to these scandals.
Good job. MacArthur and others in his camp needs to be challenged on these aspects of their cessationist teaching. Much of what he says on the topic doesn't reflect Scripture or the reality of what God is doing today in people's lives.
This is great guys! Question: What is the difference between someone who has the "gift of healing" and someone who does not? As believers we can all pray and ask for healing, and sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. I prayed for a man who was color blind, and 20 minutes later, his eyes were healed! Do I then have the gift of healing? To be slightly funny, is there a "percentage / accuracy / success" rate that denotes that someone has the "gift" vs. someone that does not? Some cessationalistsn believe that "No, you don't have a gift of healing, you just prayed for someone and they got healed. It's not necessarily a "gift", it's something that all Christians have the ability to ask for. Thoughts on this? Is Joe Shmoe, who has a gift of healing at 80% success, and Jane Doe doesn't have the gift because she's at 15% success? I think some of the can be explained with what Josh said, that there are more than one "gifts of healings" ... Plural. Love your thoughts.
Doesn't Yeshua mention making way for the Comforter and Healer? In other words, wouldn't it be fair to say that the Spirit, Who indwells all believers, "took over" for Christ after His ascension, meaning that the role of healing passed to the Spirit?
John MacArthur, because he speaks seemingly authoritatively, can be very persuasive. I'm thankful for your clarification of the flaws in the cessationist doctrine he espouses.
Wow. I watched his sermons whenever it pops up in my screen but I am baffled as to his assertions on Jesus healings when it is fully described and written in the bible.
Yes, there is no term "gift of healing." What is says is "gifts of healing" and in the original Greek, the plural is double, as in "giftS of healingS."
s there any empirical proof for Biblical miracles today? (i dont mean stuff that can be explained by human suggestion, placebo effect, psychosomatic, etc. i mean real blind people gaining sight, cancer/tumors instantly gone, people that are paralized for real (paraplegia). where there is a before and after check by doctors. if so i'd like to have the source/link. ty
Raising the dead and healing of the living are different - same gift of healing or gift of miracles and gifts of healing? My initial thought is that the dead are beyond 'healing" and would need the miraculous? Perhaps I'm just splitting hairs here???
I'm probably going too far out on a limb, but Jas. 5:15 definitely seems to suggest that resurrecting someone from a physical death is a type of healing: "And _the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up_ . And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."
Not sure if youve ever spoken to conservative NT scholar Craig Blomberg, but he wrote a chapter on miracles in his 'Can We Still Believe the Bible?' book. A very good book overall.
All of Jesus’ healing were instantaneous? Mark 8:22-26 (ESV): Jesus Heals a Blind Man at Bethsaida 22 And they came to Bethsaida. And some people brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, “Do you see anything?” 24 And he looked up and said, “I see people, but they look like trees, walking.” 25 Then Jesus laid his hands on his eyes again; and he opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly. 26 And he sent him to his home, saying, “Do not even enter the village.”
We are in a broken and sinful world. We always need healing, hope and building up of faith. Not only to point to Christ but yes a compassionate act or touch to draw us into deeper possible rel’p w Him and increase our faith and boldness 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻✝️✝️✝️🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
I have a question related to gifts. I was having a discussion with some 'open but cautious' friends of mine about gifts of the spirit. One person asked me whether if someone doesn't have the gifts of the spirit they are okay. I feel like there is something wrong the question I was hoping you can help me out
I am a continuist, but I was wondering why you reference the Old Testament when it comes to gifts of healing or prophecy, when it seems to me that gifts are received either after you have believed (2 Tim. 1:6 & 1 Tim. 4:14) or the moment you believe (as that is when we receive the spirit, our gifts are used for building up the body of the church Eph 4:11-12, and it seems everyone has them 1 Peter 4:10)? If you have answered in another video I would love to listen to that one if someone has the link.
I think the point is that in the OT God gifted a limited number of specific individuals at a specific time through his Holy Spirit. With the coming of the Son, the Holy Spirit is given to all who believe, and thus any gifts could be given to anyone at any time.
@@PC-vg8vn I do get what you are saying, that a limited number of people had it in the OT. However, I always attributed it to God working through them for that instance, not that they always had that gift. For example, in the NT elders are commanded to pray over a person when they are sick (James 5:14-15) though they don't all have the gift. God may work through them in that instance. Are you saying that in the OT the prophets 'had the gifts' instead of 'God working through them in that instance' (though God always is the one doing the work, I hope you get my point)? (not trying to come off as angry in anyway, though I realize that this could be read this way)
Something you keep repeating is “Jesus had the gift of healing” Jesus is healer He is Jehovah Rapha -The Lord who heals Jesus is healer He was not gifted healing He is God He is healer
I think only the Holy Ghost can convince John MacArthur about his bad teaching and unbelief, but he has allows it to Him...I feel like he has hardened his heart so much😢 we need to pray for him🙌
I love you guys and you certainly have a good theology in part. However I was very impressed with your theology on continuationist . I then watched you in church when you introduced prophecy in a church service. I thought well if that is a prophecy from God it was rather weak. We have a book that if read would be more effective than some of these prophetic words just an observation
Blessings brothers! Thank you for your service to our Lord Jesus Christ. It’s only obvious we don’t have the same faith our Lord Jesus Christ has and doubt is a big problem for most Christians. Clearly our Lord Jesus said we needed fasting and prayer in order to cast out some demons. But I don’t recall Jesus Christ telling His disciples to be false just because they couldn’t cast out the demon just like Him. I know for sure if we had the faith Jesus Christ did and obeyed His word we would see more miracles and healing. Sure, having faith in Him and His word (charismatic) is one thing, and having faith in yourself and your teacher is another (hyper charismatic)
I am Greek. 1) It speaks of the " gift of healingS", plural. You can have a gift to heal one type of health issue, but not another. 2) The believer that has the gift, still has to apply faith, and so does the person needing healing; at least enough to show up or want to be healed. Jesus had more faith then most healers do, so it's normal that sometimes things don't go as expected. 3) Even if the healer, does not heal someone, God may still heal them when they leave. 4) Jesus did not heal everyone. 5) It is pronounced Thesaloneekee. 6) Why did you make an issue with Paul's thorn? It's no mystery or secret what it was, BECAUSE HE TELLS US WHAT IT WAS!! He says it was a (persistent like a thorn) angel of satan that would literally strike him.-Paul was not sick with a thorn. 7) My view is that this gift is one that allows the healer to choose people to heal, but if God does not agree with a particular person being healed, he will not be healed. Through this gift he honors the believers by allowing them the right to act on His behalf. Simultaneously, it is used to heal people that God does not want to honor by directly healing them, but only through a proxi. --Macarthur is a false teacher on all topics, as we have been warned they will come; he is a calvinist, and that tree will be burned up. It's clearly a spring bringing sweet and salty water. Far from him and pied Piper, etc.
I'd _love_ to hear John's explanation for Jhn 9 where Christ spits on the ground to make mud, rubs the mud on the blind man's eyes, and then sent him to wash in the pool of Siloam. The man wasn't healed immediately when Christ touched his eyes. Same thing with the blind man in Mar. 8. When Christ spat on his eyes and put His hands on the first time, the man could only partially see. But according to John's argument, that never happened 😏
I grew up in a cessassionist church- Church of Christ. I went to be a missionary in a third world country, and went to a retreat at another church. A pastor there prayed that “someone will be healed today who has myopia in Jesus name.” I looked and my wife’s friend was taking her glasses off and on with a look of awe on her face. Unfortunately, I feel like my upbringing has seriously limited me in many ways. We in the West need to shed this bad teaching.
What was that verse that says if you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, there is no forgiveness? It was clear that if it was the work of The Spirit and if you say it is the work of the a devil…..
If John McArthur taught what the Apostles taught, he would get the same results as the first church, and because there are no results he blames it on God changing His mind. Heretic.
we have to understand also. jesus is and was the only perfect human, no trauma spiritually, was 100% surrendered to the Father so the Holy Spirit moved without resistance. jesus calls us to obey him but doesnt expect perfection. not to mention, jesus saw and heard what the father was doing perfectly at all times.
1)I just don't get how pastor John used the lepers example as instantaneous healing?!.. the blind man who saw people as trees? Go and wash at siloam? Further unbelief of those in hometown could even restrict? The Prince of faith? 2) does God still heal is the question....yet his whole conversation is about how or what methods God uses to heal... 3)Jesus only used word and touch and so did disciples...yet shadows and anointing with oil...? Touching him by the hem of his garment?
Gentleman - I'm not a fan [or hater for that matter] of JM. He is not a person I lean towards when it comes to scripture preaching. Also, I’ve enjoyed and have spoken with others positively about your channel. All that to say the pettiness of the snarky comments when some or all three of you men disagree is becoming more frequent. Just please be more cautious in that - Amen.
Who are these people you know that have the gift of healing and why don’t they go to the hospitals? What‘s wrong with simply stating that God can heal through prayer?
Where Jesus healing is not instantaneous the process is very quick and observable. I fully believe the gifts are for today but we need to separate the miraculous observable healings from "natural" time consuming healing and healing through medication.
It is really difficult to listen to such faulty reasoning, it actually hurts. But whatever I must do to keep challenging my beliefs, I‘ll do it. Alright, not all points are invalid. But the majority of them are. I also don‘t think Johnny Mac did the best he could do.
Healings happen all the time not to say to make it a Magic show. My father knew a woman who had breast cancer in both her breasts and had to have them removed. That she had her breasts supernaturally grow back
But I’m not a biblical scholar. I have no extra letters with my name. I just love to learn. And know what I know. And humbly working out my salvation and trying to become more like Jesus everyday.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
I’m in a lot of mental anguish. I need Jesus to take control of my life asap because if left to my own devices, I will destroy it. All I feel is doom for me and my loved ones.
John's disciples come to Jesus when John was in prison, and ask " are you the one or should we be looking for someone else" paraphrased. Isn't it interesting that Jesus doesn't say, the answer is "in the scriptures" , ( although the scriptures witness him, of course), rather he says " the blind see, the lame walk, the deaf hear"- he thus points to the signs and wonders of his ministry. If we live in an inaugurated Kingdom, and are commissioned and empowered to proclaim the good news ,should we be at all surprised to see accompanying signs and wonders, inter alia healings? We don't" order" healings and the miraculous , but we can ask a compassionate God to heal? When we proclaim the Kingdom of God we have 3:59 every reason to be expectant? Arguing about ways , means and especially from silence is diverting but weak.
John Macarthur lives in his own echo chamber with the rise that Calvinism is having. Cessationism isn’t in the Bible, period. There isn’t 1 scripture to back it up. If someone told him they got healed he’d be like the Pharisees and not believe it because, you know, that doesn’t fit what he already believes.
Why do you look at us as if this man has been healed by our own power? It is not us who does it. And elsewhere it says I do not do anything of my own will but only what I see the father doing.
A lot of pastors get a little emotional and make errors. It is not fair to critique a pastor's words unless you approach him first and confront him about his errors. If he stands by what he said in a sermon, then you can critique his response. This is disingenuous on Remnant Radio's part
Great content and I agree! However, one point of clarification. There is one verse that states that sign gifts were to authenticate genuine apostles. "The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works." 2 Cor 12:12 ESV. I don't believe signs gifts were limited to apostles but they were marks of apostles. Keep up the great work! You guys are a blessing!
@marcbrule3205: I would understand 2 Corinthians 12:11 a little differently. Paul hoped that the believers in Corinth would come to recognize that he was “not at all inferior to these super-apostles” (2 Cor. 12:11). In fact, “the signs of a true apostle were performed among” the Corinthians “with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works” (v. 12). But does this text refer to the miraculous as “signs” of the apostles? There is reason to doubt this is what the text means. Unfortunately, the NIV translation contributes to the confusion by translating as follows: “I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles.” This rendering leads one to believe that Paul is identifying the “signs” or “marks” of an apostle with the miraculous phenomena performed among the Corinthians. A closer look at the Greek text can be helpful here. The word translated “signs” or “marks” (sēmeia) is in the nominative case, as one would expect. But the terms “signs, wonders and miracles” are all three in the dative. This means, contrary to what many have thought, that Paul did not say the insignia of an apostle are signs, wonders, and miracles. Rather, as the English Standard Version more accurately translates, he asserted that “the signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with [or better still, accompanied by] signs and wonders and mighty works.” Mark Seifrid rightly confirms this point by noting that “unfortunately, both the NIV and the NRSV basically ignore the datives (sēmeiois te kai terasin kai dunamesin), equating them with the ‘signs of an apostle.’ The ESV rightly connects them to Paul’s perseverance.” the instrumental dative is grammatically possible, it is conceptually unlikely. After all, what could it possibly mean to say that Christlike perseverance was present or on display “by means of signs and wonders and mighty works”? Murray Harris nevertheless argues for the instrumental dative and connects the miraculous phenomena not to Paul’s “perseverance” but to the “signs of a true apostle.” The associative dative, which designates accompanying circumstances, seems more fitting. On this view, as Harris notes, Paul “largely distinguishes the ‘marks’ from the miracles, even if . . . the latter together constitute one of those ‘marks.’ ”The important point is that “Paul does not equate the marks of apostleship with miracles as if to suggest that only the former do the latter.” what I think Paul was saying, here and elsewhere in the New Testament, is that miraculous phenomena were a necessary sign of apostolic authority but not a sufficient one. One could hardly claim to be an apostle of Jesus Christ (at least in the sense in which the original Twelve, plus Paul and a handful of others, were apostles) in the absence of these supernatural works. But the mere presence of such works was not in itself sufficient to prove that one was an apostle. Signs, wonders, and miracles were, undoubtedly, attendant elements in Paul’s apostolic work. But they were not themselves the “signs of an apostle,” as if to say that only apostles performed them. What, then, did Paul have in mind when he spoke of “the signs of a true apostle”? The signs of an apostle, the distinguishing marks of true apostolic ministry were, among other things: 1. the fruit of his preaching, that is, the salvation of the Corinthians themselves (cf. 1 Cor. 9:1b-2, “Are not you my workmanship in the Lord? If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord”; cf. 2 Cor. 3:1-3); 2. his Christlike life of simplicity, godly sincerity, holiness, humility, and the like (cf. 2 Cor. 1:12; 2:17; 3:4-6; 4:2; 5:11; 6:3-13; 7:2; 10:13-18; 11:6, 23-28); and 3. his sufferings, hardship, and persecution (cf. 2 Cor. 4:7-15; 5:4-10; 11:1-33; 13:4). The “first commendation of an apostle,” notes Seifrid, is “perseverance” or “endurance” in the midst of affliction. Paul patiently, in perseverance, displayed these “signs” of his apostolic authority. And this was accompanied by signs, wonders, and miracles he performed in their midst. Let us also remember that Paul did not refer to the “signs” of an apostle nor to the miraculous phenomena that accompanied his ministry as a way of differentiating himself from other, nonapostolic Christians, but from the false apostles who were leading the Corinthians astray (2 Cor. 11:12-15, 23). “In short,” writes Wayne Grudem, “the contrast is not between apostles who could work miracles and ordinary Christians who could not, but between genuine Christian apostles through whom the Holy Spirit worked and non-Christian pretenders to the apostolic office, through whom the Holy Spirit did not work at all.” As noted above, I’m not suggesting that signs, wonders, and miraculous deeds did not, in fact, serve to authenticate or attest to the truthfulness of the message the apostles proclaimed. They most assuredly did. But nowhere in the New Testament are such supernatural phenomena said to be the signs or an authenticating seal on the apostles themselves. That would have been impossible, given the fact that numerous nonapostolic Christians operated in the ministry of signs and wonders. We cannot easily ignore the fact that more than one hundred nonapostolic believers on the day of Pentecost were recipients of the gift of tongues. And the clear implication of Peter’s words is that they would experience dreams and visions as a result of which they would prophesy. I’ve already mentioned a few incidents where nonapostolic believers were recipients of miraculous gifts of the Spirit, but it wouldn’t hurt to remind ourselves once again. Stephen, a deacon, “full of grace and power, was doing great wonders and signs among the people” (Acts 6:8). Stephen also experienced a glorious revelatory vision of “the glory of God, and [of] Jesus standing at the right hand of God” (Acts 7:55). But no one would have said these supernatural phenomena were a confirming sign that Stephen was an apostle. Philip, another deacon (Acts 6:5), performed many miraculous signs, healed the sick, drove out demons (Acts 8:7), and displayed “great miracles,” yet no one argues that on this basis he was an apostle. Nonapostolic Christians in Antioch prophesied (Acts 13:1-3), as did anonymous disciples of the John the Baptist (Acts 19:6-7). The aforementioned Philip was blessed with four daughters, all of whom prophesied. Paul expected the average Christians in Rome to prophesy (Rom. 12:6) but never suggested that operating in this miraculous ministry meant that they were apostles. The miraculous gifts and powers in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 are said to be distributed to average believers in Corinth, none of whom would ever have been thought to be apostles. Paul also described how the Holy Spirit worked “miracles” among the Galatians (Gal. 3:5), apparently in the complete absence of an apostle. My point in citing these instances is simply to highlight once again the fact that miraculous gifts and powerful signs were not restricted to the apostles. This confirms that whatever else Paul may have meant in 2 Corinthians 12:12, he was not saying that “signs and wonders and mighty works” were the exclusive domain and authenticating mark of apostles alone.
@@TheRemnantRadio Thanks for that clarification. I never meant to imply that signs and wonders were limited to apostles. Perhaps I misunderstood your own statement. As a pastor of a continuationist church, I have operated in and observed the gifts for many years. I am honoured that you would provide such a thorough response! I appreciate you guys!
![God: What Is He Like? Part 1 (Selected Scriptures) [Audio Only]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jItgRECwBfU/mqdefault.jpg)
Me and my wife attended your conference down in North Carolina earlier this year, and you prayed over us for infertility issues. Now, less than six months later, my wife is pregnant for the first time ever. It has been almost 5 years of marriage for us and I believe God answered prayers at that conference.
I would ask for continued prayer since the health issues cause issues in pregnancy. Thank you.
Praise God!
Father, I pray for a blessed pregnancy with healthy baby and momma, reaching full term. Amen!
@@michaelrowntree2005źxxxxxxxxx zzz 😴
Me and my friends were behind you at that conference and prayed for you! I actually have thought of you guys and prayed for you since that conference! (If you are in fact the same couple)
This is wonderful news!
We also struggled with infertility for almost 10years, now we have just welcomed our 2nd child SUPERNATURALLY!! May God keep you all to see the arrival of your baby, healthy and ready to fulfil their God-given purpose.
Edit: just wanted to let TRR know I have before X-rays and would be happy to send them in!
I had scoliosis with a major curve in my spine and neck. It was visible. I was with a group of ministry friends praying for one another and then asked for prayer over my back. I had taken my shirt off so they could see if my spine still had a curve after the first prayer. It felt better but one spot was in pain and curved still. My brother in Christ said, “let this spin come into alignment with the will of Jesus.” They watched my spine move and I have remained free of that disease!
amazing!
🙏💯🎉
I have scoliosis and chronic pain from it. This is awesome. I'm so glad you got healing! ❤
Praise the Lord for those testimonies. Bring 'em. This is the NORMAL Christian faith, but honestly I'm amazed!
Michael Miller was at my church in January for a prophetic conference. On the second day, Michael shared with the audience about how he was at another conference and a woman came up who had no arches came up and he prayed for her and she got arches. As I was listening to his testimony, I felt the Holy Spirit overwhelm my feet and legs (felt like electricity). I am trying to process in my mind while this is happening and asking the Lord did you just give me arches. I had arch supports for low arches for like 30 years. I walked out that night holding those supports in my hands. No one touched me or prayed for except Jesus touched me and it always interceding for me.
"Jesus always healed openly in front of large crowds" ok what about those times he sent everyone out of the room so he didn't have to deal with their mockery of unbelief?
Do you have a scripture for that? I've never heard of that.
@@truthseeker73ablelook up Mark 5:40 and Matthew 9:25
I used to think healing was the big sign of Christ's true followers. God has shown me that changed hearts are the real miracle.
Yes, but it's not good to deny or despise healing miracles. In the Bible there are highlighted not diminished
amen!
what you used to think was wrong. Because healing is clearly not the "big sign" of Christ's true followers. What you think now is also wrong..... because if it is a miracle from God then physical healings are also real miracles... not just changed hearts.
@@OscarLvera and predicted by Paul.
To end
@@nomadicrecovery1586 it will end when we see face to face. Have you seen Jesus face to face? Have you seen him coming in the clouds and stablishing his kingdom?
My grandmother was healed from stage 4 cancer in the late 60s and lived another 44 years until the Lord called her home. Sometimes people don't get healed and sometimes they do, we don't always know God's plan until later on down the road. In my grandmother's case, she left the dead legalistic denomination she grew up in, got born again/baptized in the Holy Spirit and all of her descendants are serving the Lord.
The gift of healing has ceased? Will somebody needs to tell that to the vertigo I was healed from last week in a prayer meeting. Lol
praise the Lord!!
Being healed by God through prayer and the gift of healing are not the same thing. The cessationist position does not assert that God does not heal.
@brianbriggs2183 Read the comments buddy. God is healing more often than cessationists care to admit.
@@tpw7250 if you're going to argue against a position, at least represent it accurately.
I randomly met John MacArthur in Colorado Springs. He was very nice and spent about 15 or 20 minutes with me. We talked about his beliefs about the gift of prophecy. His primary reason for not believing in the gifts was that he wasn't seeing them at work around him, and that he's seen false prophecies, etc. Bottom line is he's a pragmatist, which is ironic because he has a video series on the problem of pragmatism. So, he's interpreting scripture based on his experience, not on what it says.
concur 100%....and i love John Mac
However, if you dig deeply, he's not REALLY a cessationist.....still believes God does miracles.....just not as in the 1st century...( as you said, he hasn't seen it )
Problem is, those who are not cessationists are SILENT for the most part, on all the fake and deceptive stuff out there...
That's a sad fact
It's a shame he doesn't put himself in situations/places where the gift of prophecy occurs. Surely he'll know someone who is a continuationsist who can show him how the gift of prophecy occurs and is done well and Bibliacally....I would suspect he wouldn't want to be seen associating with those people though I guess....bit of a catch twenty-two really....
We can still be pragmatic while acknowledging the problems and limits of pragmatism. There is a strong argument that we're all pragmatists in one way or another--we have to interpret the world from our perspective, which is bounded by our experiences.
Too bad he didn't stop in to see Andrew Wommack (O what a snake), not that I'm a fan of JMac and his neo-Calvinism. Thanks for that comment. Blessings to you and yours in Christ.
Prophecy=charismatic fortune telling
May I just add that I believe that ALL healing is ultimately from God - no matter how it comes about, how long it takes, naturally or through medication. The issue is what constitutes "miraculous" healing like Jesus was doing.
God does not heal through medication. Despite what many "Christians" believe, the Bible calls the administering of medication "sorcery" in Galatians in Revelation. This is backed up by 2 Kin. 1 where King Ahaziah consults Beelzebub for healing instead of God. Relying on medication is the same as consulting a false god, in which case a person is not following the true God.
Amen and amen!!!❤️🔥🙏❤️🔥
“According to your faith be it unto you.”
I have seen people healed as a young man and that cured me of any cessationist notions! I have been healed of major joint pain (I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis) where I couldn't raise my arm over my head during prayer at my local fellowship. It may not impress JMac, but it was significant to me and I praise God for it! I saw a woman's leg grow about two inches, a woman who had a short leg into her 60s(!) when we prayed for her during a camp meeting service! She took off her orthopedic shoe and never wore it again! Praise God!!
John MacArthur will never see a miracle because he doesn't want to! He has staked his claim in cessationist beliefs and I believe he would rather be "right" than move off his position.
Be careful about the "leg growing" thing! A lot of deception going around especially on this! I believe in healing, however I was told a person with cerebral palsy or MS was healed and she started dancing around. I haven't been told if she's still healed, I believe that's the proof. I myself, fell on my knees and was in great pain but no doctor was open. That night I prayed for Jesus to heal me. Later, I felt like a cold sensation over and around my knee. Then I knew I could get up and walk on it. When I went to the workman's comp doctor it was basically healed except some swollen ness and a bruise.
I so agree with you! It's become a matter of principle at this point for him.
Praise God. Pray for my knee!
In a kingdom of blind men, the one-eyed man is king.
The cessationists can't go about bemeaning the charismatics for stepping out into the open waters while they are calmly seated in the boat.
I was healed 72 hours before I was supposed to die! This was in 2005. I was not touched nor spoken to by the Lord. It was my faith that absolutely healed me! My surgeons’ were surprised I even woke up and wrote on a paper to pull out my endotracheal tube or I would take it out! I begged for water and the surgeon told me I would choke to death. I said, “Try me!” The nurse brought me one small ice chip so when I choked I could spit out the water. I sucked on a whole cup of ice that another nurse brought me.
I was so happy that I was discharged in 3 days! My FAITH in the Word of God healed me and I told the world! Anyone who would listen, I spoke about my healing! ❤✝️
Keep telling the story of the power of Jesus (and faith in Him!). Please pray for me and my family, as you have the gift of strong faith~!
Hi guys, great video! The woman with the issue of blood touched Jesus' Prayer shawl tassels and was healed. He only spoke to her after He felt power going out from Him, and so he never spoke to her for healing or touched her. I find it difficult with people like Mr. Macarthur because all he appears to do is point the finger and judge others, particularly people in the world, that Paul told us not to judge. Why isn't he calling out the erroneous teaching or the heresy that's taught by starting with himself. The only videos that I see come up with him appear to be about judging people in the world or speaking against the gifts of the Holy Spirit today. Blessings 🙌
Mac actually has some good points...and many "continuationists" (of which I am one, just so there is no confusion) are mislabeling the healing that God is doing (today) as "gift(s) of healing" when that is NOT what it is.
J Mac is a good preacher. He sincerely wants believers to truly believe. Not be self deceived as those who find out at judgement. Which are many. Did not we heal and cast out demons in your name?
@Keith Fuson "We are not Jesus and we don't live in that dispensation..Most claims are exaggerated and embellished."
If you're in pain for over a year and get INSTANTLY healed through a word of knowledge and prayer, you are not likely to say "most claims are exaggerated." When you're the one in pain who is healed, exaggeration is not a word that enters your mind. I have been there.
This was a very thoughtful, very logical, and clear response to cessationist. I appreciate it so much and can't wait for Ruslan KD to share his thoughts on this 😅.
When Jesus healed the soldiers' ear, I'm sure it wasn't a "organic" naturally occurring injury.
Folks, we need to fast and ask God for his Armor and also for THE GIFTS OF HEALINGS🙏
Something like Dr. Michael Brown would say, even if every thing John MacArthur opened with was true, in that we don't see that stuff happening today, it would still have nothing to do with what scripture says to be true. Cessassionists primarily use arguments from experience. "We don't experience this, therefore it doesn't happen anymore."
@@kryptic8956Is that how you deal with a point? Completely side step it?
@@kryptic8956 yet James White is a good friend of Michael Brown. Who a person is friends with is not relevant to the point I made.
This was amazing. Thank you
@theremnantradio Why do you conflate MacArthur with all cessationists? Also, what cessationists do you know that deny that God heals in response to prayer?
As someone who went to Seminary/Bible school in the early 80's and subsequently served many years churchplanting, conference speaking, fasting, fighting devils, dodging bullets, and robbing graves in the mountain fastnesses of latin America and who raised 4 kids and now has grand kids- all the while with John Piper's Desiring God book by my side (Since 1985) and proofs of the Holy Ghost on the right and on the left- I would say that you guys are YOUNG and more than anything else I could say to you is that...your opinions about almost everything WILL CHANGE as you get closer to seeing Jesus with your own eyes. get ready!
If you ever been in great pain and gotten healed (which I have three times, though one was not painful), you will not deny that healing gifts exist (and mine were through words of knowledge followed by prayer for my condition).
Though the most common healing we see are indeed healing of various pains, we also see bones growing in length as well as deaf ears being opened. One of the wildest our church has experienced is when after a healing training, we sent the participants out the practice in the community. One person had no bone at the tip of his index finger. He saw several with uneven arms being healed but he said that team should not pray for him because his arms were even but it was that he didn't have a bone at the tip of one of his index fingers. He thought that God could not heal that. However, one of the ladies grabbed his finger and commanded that the bone to appear. After she removed her hand, there was bone. This happened instantaneously. The cut the story short, the man put his faith in Christ.
This happens all the time at your church? Wow. You're doing something right. Where are you located?
This is Incredibly important push back! Doing so with respect, for the church to stand firm on scripture EVEN in the gifts. Thank you for this because many of us in the body of Christ have been sorely ashamed at some of the false healers that go unchecked. YET, the abuse of the gifts does not negate the giftings of God. It is important to remain respectful, biblically detailed and thoughtful. Thank you for being that voice!
Speaking of healing back pain. I felt and heard my back “pop” into place at the 2019 Convergence conference. It was at a word of command by Sam Storms from the stage…. I was not expecting it to happen. PTL
Nice, I was there!
I would be grateful for the healing of back pain
I've heard you guys argue frequently against "instant" healing with the lepers who were healed as they went as well as the blind man who saw men like trees. My pushback is it wasn't days, months, or years later. It was still shortly after or during the encounter. I don't think those compare to people not experiencing healing and being told to just believe for it. Thoughts?
I think the point is that "instant" healing doesn't compare with the lepers who were healed as they went or the blind man who saw men like trees or, as you say, "shortly after." Indeed, "shortly after" is not "instant." We can debate about how long is too long, but the point is that the cessationist argument that all healings have to occur on the first try is wrong. Does that make sense? What purpose would Jesus' parable for the disciples to not give up praying serve if every healing prayer happened immediately (Luke 18:1-8)?
Such weak arguments/response.
You guys are missing the whole point of John MacArthur. He's basically saying that Jesus and Apostles were able to heal people any time they wanted and however they wanted, they didn't have to do various stuffs one after another to heal someone.
But today we don't see anything like that. And if you say you have the gift of healing you must be able to heal all deceased whenever and on whoever you wished.
And I would say, If anyone gets healed today, it's because God out of His mercy healed them & not because one having the gift on healing healed them.
Jesus healed people through the power of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:38), and so did the apostles.
Even the apostles, who were given power and authority by Jesus to heal diseases and cast out demons (Matthew 10:1) could not heal a boy in Matthew 17:16-18 because of the disciples' unbelief.
@@explodingrubberducky797 ofcourse Apostles had authority and the power of the Holy Spirit to heal the sick. But if we apply that thing now then every time I prays with belief I must be able to heal the sick, and if the person doesn't get healed that should mean that I didn't have enough belief. Right?
I have two partially blind brothers. Hundreds of pastors and so called prophets have prayed for them, but they haven't got healed yet. So according to your reasoning all of them didn't have enough belief ?
I would still say if someone gets healed it's because of God's mercy not because some one with the gift of healing prayed for him. Because, if that was so then my brothers would have been healed by now.
@@Yowashpatel 1)I don't know you or your brothers and neither do I know those who prayed for your them, so I can't speak definitively to your situation, and I wasn't doing so. I was providing scriptural evidence for people(the disciples) who were given the authority to heal every diseases & cast out demons who could not do what they were given the power to do because of their unbelief, according to Matthew 17:16-18. And this goes against the view that McArthurs espouses that "Apostles were able to heal people any time they wanted and however they wanted."
2) I find it interesting that in the discourse of Matthew 17, Jesus puts the onus on the disciples to heal the boy and chastises them for not doing so since he had already given them the authority to do so prior.
I don't mean this to be contentious. Just my 2 cents on the issue
@@AfricanSheep
Matthew 17:19-20
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, *“Why could we not cast it out?”*
20 So Jesus said to them, *“Because of your unbelief;* for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
In Matthew 17:20, above, Jesus says their unbelief is the reason they were unable to drive out the devil.
Yeah. I’m not gonna lie. My dad loves Johnny Mac, and I was excited to listen to this with him, but because of how you approached the discussion, I likely will not. 😞
Why? They did nothing wrong in there presentation.
@@mikecasale438 (so I’m not mad writing this, I think it’s easy to read these comments with condemnation or irritation… just wanna preface my attitude lol)… I suppose, when there’s someone I love dearly (my father) who really loves someone’s work (Johnny Mac’s), before sending it to someone I listen to it “with their ears/eyes/hearts” and kinda ask myself “would this tone/approach make me defensive if they were talking about someone I really enjoyed?” And although I really really really enjoy RR, and they’re normally very kind, compassionate, level-headed, in 99.9% of their content, they just kinda let their frustrations out in this video. Which- I understand, but I guess was this meant to be a refuting video meant for John MacArthur viewers to watch and be persuaded on? Or a venting session for others who disagree with him? Etc. I think it’s challenging when you’re defending yourself to an audience who is in agreement with you, but if they imagined they were having this conversation in the front of Grace community church- I’d bet their tone would have been different. Which I think signifies that they let their frustration on this topic kinda show through. So. I guess…. I was hopeful it was going to be kind and gentle enough for me to watch with (or send to) my dad, but I won’t be… if that makes sense. I’m not sure you would waste your time to rewatch the video and listen to it with “new ears” based on a random TH-camrs comment, with a willingness to see what I’m talking about, but you could do that and see what I’m meaning. And the thing that sucks about an hour long video is that if they only “go off the rails” and vent and let loose a little it kinda “spoils” the whole video if you know what I mean.
Ps: I do know that there will always be offended people, and I know nobody is perfect, so there’s grace and forgiveness there, but I just wanted to kinda comment from the perspective of someone who’s between charasmatic viewpoints and a jmac-following loved one.
Sorry for the novel if you ever even read this 😂
I wonder if there was someone in John MacArthur’s life who wasn’t healed when he prayed for them and it colored his point of view
Great point
Good insight….I wonder if a lot of the reformed position on gifts has to do with not having faith for them or because they have felt “let down”.
Does he not believe the Lord still heals thru prayer , or is it he doesn't believe in the spiritual gift of healing bestowed on individuals in the church.
Not sure, that that's why Justin Peters is a John Calvin disciple. He's made because he went to a healing service and didn't get healed. He also doesn't believe in confession of faith either.
Im so happy with this stream thank you so much
Just found this channel through Ruslan!!! Great stuff!! This is needed!
My dad was instantly healed from back pain that never returned until he died almost 2 decades later. It happened while we were worshipping while watching a Christian program on TV in a hotel room.
In my opinion, a plain reading of the Bible does not in any way support cessationism unless one approaches it with preconceived ideas.
I don't agree with MacArthur on cessationism or with his logic on why the gifts have ceased, but his desire to expose people who claim to have gifts and heal people is understandable. If you look at the people he has in mind, who purport to heal people, you will find false doctrine, ungodliness, dubious healings and money scams. If you asked MacArthur if he believed God heals today, he would probably say yes, but not by the circus performers, but by the elders of the church coming together and praying for the sick.
I agree
100 percent
“Healing is the children’s bread” - so I guess they believe that the ‘children’ don’t deserve bread anymore or that God stops providing bread for His people.
Context is key. Those "children" in question are the nation of Israel.
I just don't see where in the Bible it says the gifts supposedly cease. I see 1 Corinthians 13 it says charity never faileth and puts prophecies and tongues and knowledge in contrast. But 14:1 says to desire gifts. Are we supposed to think he didn't mean to say that directly after? How is that supposed to support cessationism?
1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church
This he says RIGHT after 1 Corinthians 13.
1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
So do we no longer have signs for them that believe not? Do we no longer serveth them that believe? If 1 Corinthians 13 says the gifts will cease, why does he say to desire them so in 1 Corinthians 14. Simple; it is saying the gifts will not cease until he shall appear and we see him as he is, 1 John 3.
Ephesians 4
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ, he gave gifts unto men. He gave us some apostles and some prophets and so on for the perfecting of the body UNTIL we all come in the unity of the faith. Q: are we all in the unity of the faith, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ? I think not yet.
The idea that the gifts have ceased is a tradition of men that nullifies the word of God and goes directly against the written scripture.
Effective refutation. Needed, too
Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever. Who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil. Those statements are either true or they're not. I believe.
I loved it. Clear, biblical and logical . thank you
The ninja turtle part is actually being Jeff Durbin into the conversation.
Great discussion. Hallelujah Jesus !!! ✝️🙌🏻🙏🏻
As far as healing people kind of go around with this Stern mentality whether it's God's will to heal or not. I believe it's our duty to have faith in the healer. If we don't see it manifest. Ultimately we don't know but we do our duty of having faith in who he is Jehovah Rapha.
I'm curious to know why nobody has any concerns or comments that John MacArthur's megachurch has claims of pedophilia and abuse being tolerated.
This includes an elder stepping and leaving due to these scandals.
This!
If we err in our teaching, might you admit then that you could possibly err in your healing?
Good job. MacArthur and others in his camp needs to be challenged on these aspects of their cessationist teaching. Much of what he says on the topic doesn't reflect Scripture or the reality of what God is doing today in people's lives.
- the healings, always accompanies the gifting of faith for that particular healing within the individual requesting the healing
This is great guys! Question: What is the difference between someone who has the "gift of healing" and someone who does not? As believers we can all pray and ask for healing, and sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. I prayed for a man who was color blind, and 20 minutes later, his eyes were healed! Do I then have the gift of healing? To be slightly funny, is there a "percentage / accuracy / success" rate that denotes that someone has the "gift" vs. someone that does not?
Some cessationalistsn believe that "No, you don't have a gift of healing, you just prayed for someone and they got healed. It's not necessarily a "gift", it's something that all Christians have the ability to ask for. Thoughts on this? Is Joe Shmoe, who has a gift of healing at 80% success, and Jane Doe doesn't have the gift because she's at 15% success?
I think some of the can be explained with what Josh said, that there are more than one "gifts of healings" ... Plural. Love your thoughts.
Doesn't Yeshua mention making way for the Comforter and Healer? In other words, wouldn't it be fair to say that the Spirit, Who indwells all believers, "took over" for Christ after His ascension, meaning that the role of healing passed to the Spirit?
John MacArthur, because he speaks seemingly authoritatively, can be very persuasive. I'm thankful for your clarification of the flaws in the cessationist doctrine he espouses.
"Outside your echo chamber".
Is what the tagline has been but recently you all seem to be in your own?
Wow. I watched his sermons whenever it pops up in my screen but I am baffled as to his assertions on Jesus healings when it is fully described and written in the bible.
I may be mistaken however scripture describes the gift of healing as pleural “gifts” of healing.
Are the spiritual gifts given to an individual or are they the gifts of the spirit, which the Holy Spirit distributes as they are needed?
Yes, there is no term "gift of healing." What is says is "gifts of healing" and in the original Greek, the plural is double, as in "giftS of healingS."
Compassion is always vital motivation
s there any empirical proof for Biblical miracles today? (i dont mean stuff that can be explained by human suggestion, placebo effect, psychosomatic, etc. i mean real blind people gaining sight, cancer/tumors instantly gone, people that are paralized for real (paraplegia). where there is a before and after check by doctors. if so i'd like to have the source/link. ty
Raising the dead and healing of the living are different - same gift of healing or gift of miracles and gifts of healing? My initial thought is that the dead are beyond 'healing" and would need the miraculous? Perhaps I'm just splitting hairs here???
I'm probably going too far out on a limb, but Jas. 5:15 definitely seems to suggest that resurrecting someone from a physical death is a type of healing: "And _the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up_ . And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."
Having watched the whole video, I still have 1 question: which ninja turtle did Rowntree dress as?
Not sure if youve ever spoken to conservative NT scholar Craig Blomberg, but he wrote a chapter on miracles in his 'Can We Still Believe the Bible?' book. A very good book overall.
All of Jesus’ healing were instantaneous?
Mark 8:22-26 (ESV): Jesus Heals a Blind Man at Bethsaida
22 And they came to Bethsaida. And some people brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, “Do you see anything?” 24 And he looked up and said, “I see people, but they look like trees, walking.” 25 Then Jesus laid his hands on his eyes again; and he opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly. 26 And he sent him to his home, saying, “Do not even enter the village.”
We are in a broken and sinful world. We always need healing, hope and building up of faith. Not only to point to Christ but yes a compassionate act or touch to draw us into deeper possible rel’p w Him and increase our faith and boldness 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻✝️✝️✝️🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
I have a question related to gifts. I was having a discussion with some 'open but cautious' friends of mine about gifts of the spirit. One person asked me whether if someone doesn't have the gifts of the spirit they are okay. I feel like there is something wrong the question I was hoping you can help me out
Good critique guys. That had to be John MacArthur at his worst for wrongly deciding the word of truth! Shout out from the uk 🇬🇧
I am a continuist, but I was wondering why you reference the Old Testament when it comes to gifts of healing or prophecy, when it seems to me that gifts are received either after you have believed (2 Tim. 1:6 & 1 Tim. 4:14) or the moment you believe (as that is when we receive the spirit, our gifts are used for building up the body of the church Eph 4:11-12, and it seems everyone has them 1 Peter 4:10)?
If you have answered in another video I would love to listen to that one if someone has the link.
I think the point is that in the OT God gifted a limited number of specific individuals at a specific time through his Holy Spirit. With the coming of the Son, the Holy Spirit is given to all who believe, and thus any gifts could be given to anyone at any time.
@@PC-vg8vn I do get what you are saying, that a limited number of people had it in the OT. However, I always attributed it to God working through them for that instance, not that they always had that gift. For example, in the NT elders are commanded to pray over a person when they are sick (James 5:14-15) though they don't all have the gift. God may work through them in that instance.
Are you saying that in the OT the prophets 'had the gifts' instead of 'God working through them in that instance' (though God always is the one doing the work, I hope you get my point)?
(not trying to come off as angry in anyway, though I realize that this could be read this way)
Something you keep repeating is “Jesus had the gift of healing” Jesus is healer He is Jehovah Rapha -The Lord who heals Jesus is healer He was not gifted healing He is God He is healer
Is there a link to the MacArthur clip or an article?
I think only the Holy Ghost can convince John MacArthur about his bad teaching and unbelief, but he has allows it to Him...I feel like he has hardened his heart so much😢 we need to pray for him🙌
I love you guys and you certainly have a good theology in part. However I was very impressed with your theology on continuationist . I then watched you in church when you introduced prophecy in a church service. I thought well if that is a prophecy from God it was rather weak. We have a book that if read would be more effective than some of these prophetic words just an observation
Blessings brothers! Thank you for your service to our Lord Jesus Christ. It’s only obvious we don’t have the same faith our Lord Jesus Christ has and doubt is a big problem for most Christians. Clearly our Lord Jesus said we needed fasting and prayer in order to cast out some demons. But I don’t recall Jesus Christ telling His disciples to be false just because they couldn’t cast out the demon just like Him.
I know for sure if we had the faith Jesus Christ did and obeyed His word we would see more miracles and healing. Sure, having faith in Him and His word (charismatic) is one thing, and having faith in yourself and your teacher is another (hyper charismatic)
The music is a bit much at the beginning.
I am Greek.
1) It speaks of the " gift of healingS", plural. You can have a gift to heal one type of health issue, but not another.
2) The believer that has the gift, still has to apply faith, and so does the person needing healing; at least enough to show up or want to be healed. Jesus had more faith then most healers do, so it's normal that sometimes things don't go as expected.
3) Even if the healer, does not heal someone, God may still heal them when they leave.
4) Jesus did not heal everyone.
5) It is pronounced Thesaloneekee.
6) Why did you make an issue with Paul's thorn? It's no mystery or secret what it was, BECAUSE HE TELLS US WHAT IT WAS!! He says it was a (persistent like a thorn) angel of satan that would literally strike him.-Paul was not sick with a thorn.
7) My view is that this gift is one that allows the healer to choose people to heal, but if God does not agree with a particular person being healed, he will not be healed. Through this gift he honors the believers by allowing them the right to act on His behalf. Simultaneously, it is used to heal people that God does not want to honor by directly healing them, but only through a proxi.
--Macarthur is a false teacher on all topics, as we have been warned they will come; he is a calvinist, and that tree will be burned up. It's clearly a spring bringing sweet and salty water. Far from him and pied Piper, etc.
I'm only 1/3 of the way thru this, but I instantly thought of James 5: 14-15
I'd _love_ to hear John's explanation for Jhn 9 where Christ spits on the ground to make mud, rubs the mud on the blind man's eyes, and then sent him to wash in the pool of Siloam. The man wasn't healed immediately when Christ touched his eyes. Same thing with the blind man in Mar. 8. When Christ spat on his eyes and put His hands on the first time, the man could only partially see. But according to John's argument, that never happened 😏
I grew up in a cessassionist church- Church of Christ. I went to be a missionary in a third world country, and went to a retreat at another church. A pastor there prayed that “someone will be healed today who has myopia in Jesus name.” I looked and my wife’s friend was taking her glasses off and on with a look of awe on her face. Unfortunately, I feel like my upbringing has seriously limited me in many ways. We in the West need to shed this bad teaching.
Good lads
What was that verse that says if you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, there is no forgiveness? It was clear that if it was the work of The Spirit and if you say it is the work of the a devil…..
If John McArthur taught what the Apostles taught, he would get the same results as the first church, and because there are no results he blames it on God changing His mind. Heretic.
Where does John MacArthur ever say God has changed His mind?
we have to understand also. jesus is and was the only perfect human, no trauma spiritually, was 100% surrendered to the Father so the Holy Spirit moved without resistance. jesus calls us to obey him but doesnt expect perfection. not to mention, jesus saw and heard what the father was doing perfectly at all times.
1)I just don't get how pastor John used the lepers example as instantaneous healing?!.. the blind man who saw people as trees?
Go and wash at siloam? Further unbelief of those in hometown could even restrict? The Prince of faith?
2) does God still heal is the question....yet his whole conversation is about how or what methods God uses to heal...
3)Jesus only used word and touch and so did disciples...yet shadows and anointing with oil...? Touching him by the hem of his garment?
Gentleman - I'm not a fan [or hater for that matter] of JM. He is not a person I lean towards when it comes to scripture preaching. Also, I’ve enjoyed and have spoken with others positively about your channel. All that to say the pettiness of the snarky comments when some or all three of you men disagree is becoming more frequent. Just please be more cautious in that - Amen.
It's interesting about the dead rising again after Jesus death on the Cross. Automatic? Why didn't Jesus ressurect them manually like Lazarus?
Who are these people you know that have the gift of healing and why don’t they go to the hospitals? What‘s wrong with simply stating that God can heal through prayer?
Where Jesus healing is not instantaneous the process is very quick and observable. I fully believe the gifts are for today but we need to separate the miraculous observable healings from "natural" time consuming healing and healing through medication.
It will never change - Men will always rip on each other for fun ;)
Where is the original John Mcathur message?
For the Christian, death is the ultimate healing
It is really difficult to listen to such faulty reasoning, it actually hurts. But whatever I must do to keep challenging my beliefs, I‘ll do it.
Alright, not all points are invalid. But the majority of them are. I also don‘t think Johnny Mac did the best he could do.
Healings happen all the time not to say to make it a Magic show. My father knew a woman who had breast cancer in both her breasts and had to have them removed. That she had her breasts supernaturally grow back
But I’m not a biblical scholar. I have no extra letters with my name. I just love to learn. And know what I know. And humbly working out my salvation and trying to become more like Jesus everyday.
The Holy Spirit is the One who heals. It's as simple as that. I don't understand how Cessationists miss that
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
I’m in a lot of mental anguish. I need Jesus to take control of my life asap because if left to my own devices, I will destroy it. All I feel is doom for me and my loved ones.
Praying for you!
JMac used the word "psychosomatic". Isn’t that a term from psychology and doesn't JMac hate psychology?
Avocado🥑 custome. The things you do for love 😊
John's disciples come to Jesus when John was in prison, and ask " are you the one or should we be looking for someone else" paraphrased.
Isn't it interesting that Jesus doesn't say, the answer is "in the scriptures" , ( although the scriptures witness him, of course), rather he says " the blind see, the lame walk, the deaf hear"- he thus points to the signs and wonders of his ministry.
If we live in an inaugurated Kingdom, and are commissioned and empowered to proclaim the good news ,should we be at all surprised to see accompanying signs and wonders, inter alia healings? We don't" order" healings and the miraculous , but we can ask a compassionate God to heal? When we proclaim the Kingdom of God we have 3:59 every reason to be expectant? Arguing about ways , means and especially from silence is diverting but weak.
Already can find an error. The man with mud. Two part healing.
Jesus didn’t touch the woman with blood. She touched his clothes.
John Macarthur lives in his own echo chamber with the rise that Calvinism is having. Cessationism isn’t in the Bible, period. There isn’t 1 scripture to back it up. If someone told him they got healed he’d be like the Pharisees and not believe it because, you know, that doesn’t fit what he already believes.
Why do you look at us as if this man has been healed by our own power? It is not us who does it.
And elsewhere it says I do not do anything of my own will but only what I see the father doing.
33years of ministry ???
What
A lot of pastors get a little emotional and make errors. It is not fair to critique a pastor's words unless you approach him first and confront him about his errors. If he stands by what he said in a sermon, then you can critique his response. This is disingenuous on Remnant Radio's part
Great content and I agree! However, one point of clarification. There is one verse that states that sign gifts were to authenticate genuine apostles. "The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works." 2 Cor 12:12 ESV. I don't believe signs gifts were limited to apostles but they were marks of apostles. Keep up the great work! You guys are a blessing!
@marcbrule3205: I would understand 2 Corinthians 12:11 a little differently.
Paul hoped that the believers in Corinth would come to recognize that he was “not at all inferior to these super-apostles” (2 Cor. 12:11). In fact, “the signs of a true apostle were performed among” the Corinthians “with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works” (v. 12). But does this text refer to the miraculous as “signs” of the apostles? There is reason to doubt this is what the text means. Unfortunately, the NIV translation contributes to the confusion by translating as follows: “I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles.” This rendering leads one to believe that Paul is identifying the “signs” or “marks” of an apostle with the miraculous phenomena performed among the Corinthians.
A closer look at the Greek text can be helpful here. The word translated “signs” or “marks” (sēmeia) is in the nominative case, as one would expect. But the terms “signs, wonders and miracles” are all three in the dative. This means, contrary to what many have thought, that Paul did not say the insignia of an apostle are signs, wonders, and miracles. Rather, as the English Standard Version more accurately translates, he asserted that “the signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with [or better still, accompanied by] signs and wonders and mighty works.” Mark Seifrid rightly confirms this point by noting that “unfortunately, both the NIV and the NRSV basically ignore the datives (sēmeiois te kai terasin kai dunamesin), equating them with the ‘signs of an apostle.’ The ESV rightly connects them to Paul’s perseverance.”
the instrumental dative is grammatically possible, it is conceptually unlikely. After all, what could it possibly mean to say that Christlike perseverance was present or on display “by means of signs and wonders and mighty works”? Murray Harris nevertheless argues for the instrumental dative and connects the miraculous phenomena not to Paul’s “perseverance” but to the “signs of a true apostle.” The associative dative, which designates accompanying circumstances, seems more fitting. On this view, as Harris notes, Paul “largely distinguishes the ‘marks’ from the miracles, even if . . . the latter together constitute one of those ‘marks.’ ”The important point is that “Paul does not equate the marks of apostleship with miracles as if to suggest that only the former do the latter.”
what I think Paul was saying, here and elsewhere in the New Testament, is that miraculous phenomena were a necessary sign of apostolic authority but not a sufficient one. One could hardly claim to be an apostle of Jesus Christ (at least in the sense in which the original Twelve, plus Paul and a handful of others, were apostles) in the absence of these supernatural works. But the mere presence of such works was not in itself sufficient to prove that one was an apostle. Signs, wonders, and miracles were, undoubtedly, attendant elements in Paul’s apostolic work. But they were not themselves the “signs of an apostle,” as if to say that only apostles performed them. What, then, did Paul have in mind when he spoke of “the signs of a true apostle”? The signs of an apostle, the distinguishing marks of true apostolic ministry were, among other things:
1. the fruit of his preaching, that is, the salvation of the Corinthians themselves (cf. 1 Cor. 9:1b-2, “Are not you my workmanship in the Lord? If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord”; cf. 2 Cor. 3:1-3);
2. his Christlike life of simplicity, godly sincerity, holiness, humility, and the like (cf. 2 Cor. 1:12; 2:17; 3:4-6; 4:2; 5:11; 6:3-13; 7:2; 10:13-18; 11:6, 23-28); and
3. his sufferings, hardship, and persecution (cf. 2 Cor. 4:7-15; 5:4-10; 11:1-33; 13:4). The “first commendation of an apostle,” notes Seifrid, is “perseverance” or “endurance” in the midst of affliction. Paul patiently, in perseverance, displayed these “signs” of his apostolic authority. And this was accompanied by signs, wonders, and miracles he performed in their midst.
Let us also remember that Paul did not refer to the “signs” of an apostle nor to the miraculous phenomena that accompanied his ministry as a way of differentiating himself from other, nonapostolic Christians, but from the false apostles who were leading the Corinthians astray (2 Cor. 11:12-15, 23). “In short,” writes Wayne Grudem, “the contrast is not between apostles who could work miracles and ordinary Christians who could not, but between genuine Christian apostles through whom the Holy Spirit worked and non-Christian pretenders to the apostolic office, through whom the Holy Spirit did not work at all.”
As noted above, I’m not suggesting that signs, wonders, and miraculous deeds did not, in fact, serve to authenticate or attest to the truthfulness of the message the apostles proclaimed. They most assuredly did. But nowhere in the New Testament are such supernatural phenomena said to be the signs or an authenticating seal on the apostles themselves. That would have been impossible, given the fact that numerous nonapostolic Christians operated in the ministry of signs and wonders. We cannot easily ignore the fact that more than one hundred nonapostolic believers on the day of Pentecost were recipients of the gift of tongues. And the clear implication of Peter’s words is that they would experience dreams and visions as a result of which they would prophesy. I’ve already mentioned a few incidents where nonapostolic believers were recipients of miraculous gifts of the Spirit, but it wouldn’t hurt to remind ourselves once again. Stephen, a deacon, “full of grace and power, was doing great wonders and signs among the people” (Acts 6:8). Stephen also experienced a glorious revelatory vision of “the glory of God, and [of] Jesus standing at the right hand of God” (Acts 7:55). But no one would have said these supernatural phenomena were a confirming sign that Stephen was an apostle. Philip, another deacon (Acts 6:5), performed many miraculous signs, healed the sick, drove out demons (Acts 8:7), and displayed “great miracles,” yet no one argues that on this basis he was an apostle. Nonapostolic Christians in Antioch prophesied (Acts 13:1-3), as did anonymous disciples of the John the Baptist (Acts 19:6-7). The aforementioned Philip was blessed with four daughters, all of whom prophesied. Paul expected the average Christians in Rome to prophesy (Rom. 12:6) but never suggested that operating in this miraculous ministry meant that they were apostles. The miraculous gifts and powers in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 are said to be distributed to average believers in Corinth, none of whom would ever have been thought to be apostles. Paul also described how the Holy Spirit worked “miracles” among the Galatians (Gal. 3:5), apparently in the complete absence of an apostle. My point in citing these instances is simply to highlight once again the fact that miraculous gifts and powerful signs were not restricted to the apostles. This confirms that whatever else Paul may have meant in 2 Corinthians 12:12, he was not saying that “signs and wonders and mighty works” were the exclusive domain and authenticating mark of apostles alone.
@@TheRemnantRadio Thanks for that clarification. I never meant to imply that signs and wonders were limited to apostles. Perhaps I misunderstood your own statement. As a pastor of a continuationist church, I have operated in and observed the gifts for many years. I am honoured that you would provide such a thorough response! I appreciate you guys!