Is It God's Will To Heal: A Look At The 2 Wills Of God
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2022
- Is It God's Will To Heal: A Look At The 2 Wills Of God
In this episode, we discuss the ever-debated topic of God's will to heal. Many in the charismatic space declare, with no qualification, that it is always in every condition God's will to heal. Others in charismatic space speak with so much nuance that makes healing sound infrequent and rare. In this episode, we explain how you can really believe it's always God's will to heal, without the typical hangups that come with that mentality.
See you all today at 4pm CST
• Is It God's Will To He...
Josh Lewis' Church Kings Fellowship Church
kingsfellowshipchurch.com/
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Michael Rowntree's Church Bridgeway
www.bridgewaychurch.com/
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Michael Miller's Church Reclamation Church
reclamationdenver.com/
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I believe that he bore my infirmities and carried my pains. Having said that, I need healing, and I accept that it's in God's time, but I will still ask for prayer because I have seen in the scripture, where prayer has changed times and events for the benefit of the saints. So please pray for me, because I need physical restoration. And bless you and in Jesus name
In the name of Jesus, I pray that you would come to a closer knowledge of God, that His purposes would be served, and you would be healed of all sickness. He loves you and has a purpose in everything He allows. May you love Him and serve Him in all ways. Amen.
It seems to me that those who believe that it is always God's will to heal see more healings than others. They may not get 100%, but a higher number of healings than most. This should humble us.
Since healing and forgiveness of sins is in the atonement, then why are you not asking if it’s always God’s will to forgive? Enjoying the discussion
Without Jesus we would never know the fulness of God. Jesus is the key to the universe for “all things have been created through him” So I’m waiting on Jesus. He gives me strength. As a single mother things aren’t isn’t easy on me. I’m overwhelmed at times because both of my children are autistic. I’m desperately struggling trying to support them and myself because like so many others. I lost my job as a social worker at Forsyth hospital because I declined the vaccine. I declined because of my pre existing health condition lupus and heart disease. I was denied my medical/religious exemption. I wish I could go back to the hospital but the mandate is still in place for hospitals that participate in Medicare and Medicaid. I’m waitressing and I’m so thankful to be working again, but I’m not making nearly enough to make ends meet. But God continues to help me. I get harassed and called names for simply asking for prayers, but prayers are all we need to get by, and when you’re a real christian people will always crucify you. Thankfully, God gives me strength to keep going. I have faith God will provide. He HAS THIS FAR. Please pray for me and my children.
🙏
Praying for you!
Proud of you for standing up for your rights! Praying for God to bless you thru this time
Father, please encourage and provide for this dear soul and her children. But, above all, work all things together for good for her according to your will (Rom 8:28).
I don’t know if you’ll ever see this. I hope you do. I would love to help you out financially. Look me up on FB so we can connect. 💗
The question is not whether God wants to heal.
The question is WHEN God is going to heal. For many believers, that will be when we get our eternal, glorified bodies.
And in any case, whatever time God decides will be the very best thing for us.
I like that
Regarding healing, it is best to remember that healing makes sense in the context of mission. God's mission/plan is to save all creation, and He uses healing to move His mission forward. Jesus comes to fulfill that mission and uses healing to vindicate and prove everything He said, did, and claimed, resulting in the purchase of salvation. The Gospel of John explicitly shows this. Acts also shows that healing and mission tether together. As you read Acts, every miracle, healing, or move of God opens the door for the Gospel to advance.
You people trying to describe God's will sound like a kid trying to make a formula how to get what they can out of their parents when they fail to realize it's gifts of love from the parents.
Derrick. Yes, you are clearly reading the Scriptures. Bless you. The theological starting points sometimes misguide us. Rather than asking abstractly about “2 wills”, which Scripture doesn’t address, we should look at the scenarios of God’s miraculous interventions
Are there patterns we can discern. I think your approach and conclusion is a much more faithful approach to the Scriptures.
Great timing with this message! I’m laid up here recovering from a hernia repair operation that I just had a few days ago.. that I reeaally didn’t want to have; I soo desperately wanted God to heal me supernaturally and prayed into it and believed it was possible, but nonetheless I didn’t see the breakthrough and I wanted to make some progress with this situation so eventually opted for the surgery option. But I believe God may have brought me through this for the humility and compassionate effect it has on relating to others suffering because this has been and currently is very rough for me, much worse than I thought it would be. But this is a much needed and heathy discussion of Gods Will for healing because so often the debate gets shut down to such one dimensional narrow pet verses but we need to full counsel and revelation of God by His Spirit. Amen 🙏
I do hope your recover is quick. I can relate to what you are going through. Been there many times. But there is ANOTHER player that we may not have considered. "Your adversary the devil goes about seeking whom he may devour. RESIST him in the faith."
Rather than reclining and assuming our affliction and remedy must have been God's best, we can ask God why we went through this and learn from this. There is a path to sickness and a path to health. Rarely do these things arbitrarily jump on us. God will teach us if we are willing.
Great conversation, thank you gentlemen!
Thank you! Very interesting and liberating in the sense that we have to keep praying and keeping the faith.
Enjoyed the discussion. Don't believe Paul's thorn disproves healing. The OT calls enemy tribes thorns 3-4 times. I believe the messenger--angel-- from Satan was a demon that stirred up all that persecution!
Satan couldn't touch Paul without God's permission
My understanding after years of Bethel teaching lol- Bill J. definitely acknowledges that there’s an area of mystery (when it comes to why we don’t see people healed every time). My understanding is that he wants us to know that God’s heart is always for us, always to see us well and whole- And when we don’t see someone healed we don’t doubt God’s goodness, God’s love for this person….oh there- you just talked about it. 😉 …I agree with another commenter, though, there’s not much room given in Bill’s teaching for God’s sovereignty in these matters.
Ya'll are a True Blessing. Love watching ALL your shows.
Sure, his will is to heal diseases. And his ability to do so in this world correlates nicely with the progress we made in the medical field, including knowledge about hygiene etc.
I think far too many people don't teach on healing because they fear that it will drive people away from God if that healing doesn't come. Or they don't teach it because God didn't heal them personally. But the truth of the matter is that we should preach the truth of the Word regardless of our experience or what happens. If it's true that it's God's will to heal, then teach it, and don't allow your emotions to cloud the truth. Just my 2 cents.
@Johnny I think that at the base desire, it is always God's will to heal, so if we say that, we must always had nuance and further exposition to show why even though that's true, there are times when he chooses not to show his power in that way. Namely this could be due to disobedience and/or judgment.
@Johnny you could absolutely say it that way, but I don't think that changes his base desire of healing for all. As a father, there are a lot of things that I want for my children but they may not be in a place to receive or it may not be the right time for them or a number of other reasons, but that does not change my desire.
@Johnny Perfect! I'd say we completely agree! I think I'll make this simple adjustment when I teach on this.
Desire = want
Will = Action
So to say this instead, "God's desire is for everyone to be healthy and whole" --- I think that many could nitpick that and say I'm being too much of a "prosperity preacher" but honestly it's the clear Word of God. And of course we would back that up with nuance to explain why some are not healed without blaming it on their lack of faith.
Thank you so very much 😊!
Every time I pray for healing I should approach it the same way I approach sharing the gospel. I am supposed to assume God will heal this person just like I am to assume God will open the eyes of the non-believer I am witnessing to and grant them new birth. I don't ALWAYS see what I am assuming in each example but since I am not God I cannot make any judgement as to how that is NOT God's will for that person. Maybe the next time they hear the gospel the are reborn and maybe the next time they get healing prayed for them they will be healed. My two cents :)
I need everything that has changed like nervous system, gen etc to be healed. I have pain all over. Please pray for me to be healed in Jesus name... Where I t there one genetic healing g ever been on earth? I think God wants to heal us all, so I don't understand what we are doing wrong...the wife of Kenneth hagin died from cancer, the husband of his daughter, too. Why, I cannot understand it... He says we should take God's word as medicine, but I think his wife would have done these, too..., we will never find this out! Just after death. I stand on the word of good and by his stripes we are healed... Lg doris
I also pray you’d be healed in Jesus name, Doris. Many people don’t understand how difficult it is to live with chronic pain. 🤍
Another passage worth discussing on this matter is “Let a person examine himself; in this way let him eat the bread and drink from the cup. For whoever eats and drinks without recognizing the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. This is why many are sick and ill among you, and many have fallen asleep. If we were properly judging ourselves, we would not be judged, but when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined, so that we may not be condemned with the world.”
1 Corinthians 11:28-32 CSB
Such a great discussion, guys. Thank you!
Thank you, Gentlemen🌹🌹🌹🌹
Thank you Elder Michael on the Atonement issue !!!
Umm this is my new favorite episode!!!
What was maybe obscured in this discussion is that the Calvinistic soteriology is the ‘ugly duckling’ in the ‘two-wills’ family and seems most inconsistent with the nature of God. Here’s what I mean:
With regards to healing, God’s promise to heal the believer is sincere. In general terms God’s will is to heal believers, because he is caring and kind and loves to do good. However, his specific will in certain situations is to temporarily allow illness because suffering can be redemptive and bring about greater good for the person waiting for their healing.
With regards to Salvation in the Arminian understanding, God’s promise of salvation through the Gospel message is sincere. God’s general will is that all be saved but it is conditioned upon a faith response to his grace. His specific will in all situations is to judge or to reward people according to their response to the grace he has given (through the cross). This is what the Oden quotation was referring to when it mentions the ‘antecedent’ or ‘consequent’ will of God.
Now in the Calvinistic soteriology, God’s promise of salvation through the Gospel is not sincere. It is only those whom God has pre-chosen that can receive salvation through the Gospel. God’s general will is that all be saved but his specific will is that some be saved and others be damned because their damnation will in some way bring him more glory than their salvation would. For many, this explanation seems very inconsistent with the nature of God revealed in Scripture because for the vast majority of humanity it would seem that God’s judgment will triumph over his mercy.
Really good
'God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked Ezek 33:11'. Rowentree then quoted from 1Sam 2:22-25 as a proof that God takes pleasure in the death of the wicked. However, the passage DOES NOT say that, I merely states it was God's desire to put Eli's son to death, there is absolutely nothing about Him taking pleasure in it. God does not have contradictory wills!.
OH MYYY!! I want God to heal my gluten allergy.. BREADDD!!
I understand the context, or circumstance defines one of the wills of God.
I would say..the value of being sick or suffering in other ways is sometimes greater than the healing you seek.
Yes similarly the value of sin is greater than the value of being Holi
The promises of God are " Yes" in Christ and through Him "Amen" to the glory of God..."Yes, but" is an affirmative followed by a disqualifier
God is a Person, so of course He has a tiered and complex set of desires. Call those ‘wills’ if you want, but it’s completely normal, and not a huge mystery.
Love the view Miller! Way better than the basement. 😁
Good stuff y'all, great topic, I wanted to make a comment in regard to our faith and our part to play in healing being made manifest. In Matthew 17, Jesus rebukes the disciples for their little faith in not getting a boy healing; he was not healed when the disciples prayed, but he was healed when Jesus prayed. So we can honestly say the will of God was for the boy to be restored, and if the disciples see clearer - the words of Jesus by the way - they would have gotten the boy healed, and see even greater things done by the power of God. We have to stay humble in praying for healing, thanks for the video guys!!
This of course applies to the one who is praying, never to the one receiving prayer - telling someone who needs healing that they don't have enough faith is never ok.
You guys are a blessing, could you do an episode on seeker sensitivity at some point? It would be great to understand the roots and hear your guys' assessment on its benefits and shortfallings.
"Answer to the healing prayer has qualifiers". I like that, I would say that is probably more consistent with scripture and experience. There are qualifiers to answered prayers and naturally extends to prayer for healings. It would be a great show to expand on what qualifiers is required (e.g. holiness, love etc..)
@Johnny Thank you! It's a cop out
Good work boys.... personally I think it's better to pray in faith than to pray and hope
Miller seems happy and relaxed. Happy for him
Yes!
Hi Keri!
I appreciate the conversation because the topic is full of confusion. Faith and confusion doesn't go together. I had some disagreements (and agreements) along the way I might share, but I appreciate the conclusions you 3 came to at the end. Keep pursuing God's best. Bless the Lord for you all!
Sweetness of his Dessert 🧁 🙏😍
The duality within God's Will is a fascinating subject. I lean in Reformed and Lutheran views on Duality .
Jesus showed us God’s will and Jesus never ever turned anyone way who came to him in faith.
But we are not Jesus..or maybe we are "gods" 😉 on earth?
@@Gregoire0
Scripture says that Jesus was the exact imprint of the nature of God. Colossians 1:15. What I mean is therefore he demonstrated by his response to people and what he did the character and will of God. I’m just saying that based on that God’s will seems to be to heal. And yet God’s will is not always done on earth.
In addition, simply, because Jesus was fully god and fully man does not mean that he did the things he did because he was God. He did not. (Philippians 2:6-8)
He lived as a man fully dependent upon God the Father by faith. He did not have some advantage to do miracles or to live without sin simply because he was God. If he did, then his sinless life means nothing.
I'm 24 minutes into this... BUT, THANK YOU for pointing out that the same hands that made blind eyes see also made seeing eyes blind. We need a theology that put's God over it all. Sickness and healing. Too many have a dualistic theology that demotes God's sovereignty and exalts Satan's angelic status.
I am not able to watch many discussions about healing for this reason, and reading your comment actually convinced me to watch this video. 😅
I think the topic needed to be discussed in two or three session for taking in consideration first the context during Jesus time, during the apostolic time and then during the epistolary time. Then a seminary on Timothy and Paul life of health issue.
I would say that in God on this topic there are not two wills but one for each of us no matter if is a Christian or not, especially Christian’s health problems. We need to be very careful on this topic.
I’ll end my message with Jesus’s end of prayer: “Your Will Lord” in the end. So pray hard for healing pray hard with faith but in the end just say “His will God, not us.” God Bless u
Along the parental examples of the homework and cleaning the room; is it odd that God would tell us to “heal the sick” if it isn’t His will? What would be the reason behind the command if it isn’t ahis actual heart?
I think it's always God's will to heal but I believe God also allows sickness and suffering on purpose as means to bring us closer to Him and strengthen our faith.
Tony, so why press the first part? That becomes incoherent. Why not rather accept the biblical record? Sometimes God heals and many times He doesn’t. Why muddy the waters with claiming He always wills something that is not true to the biblical record, or to our human experience?
Interested to hear this discussion
Wow this was really interesting discussion Roundtree mentioned, "I just want us to stop talking past each other." And I agree we typically are doing so when it comes to Calvinist and Arminist thought, reminds me of how it was revealed essentially many Cesassionist's like Doug Wilson would accept a view of God's sovereignty allowing for the charismatic moments of God's glory merely just labeling it or calling it a different word but essentially meaning the same thing as the Continuationist. I think we as beleivers must be careful to understand the other perspective and take a step back otherwise we will just end up wrongfully straw-manning the other perspective without fully grasping the other side of the coin. That's really what it is one side is just looking at heads, the other just looking at tails, but when in fact they are both looking at a penny, just describing different angles of the penny.
🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
I love to think on these things; pondering God’s design as crafted by His nature. In the end, we only have His scriptures, which is where we draw our inferences.
It appears to me that various scriptures speak to both God’s sovereignty (Rom. 9) and His requiring our choosing of Him (John 3). So where does that leave us, right? To infer seemingly from our own understanding (as often influenced from the entire counsel, of course).
With this, what are the implications of “2 wills”? It seems to me that it implies that God is not in control of some things. Which contradicts His sovereignty as outlined in the scriptures. I say this because though some verses elude to God requiring a decision from us; I don’t see a scripture anywhere about God not performing something because it would impede on our free-will. Nor, a verse saying God desires us to have free-will. Only, verses eluding to both His sovereignty, as well as requiring that we choose.
This leads me to the peaceful belief that His sovereignty and our ability to choose in daily life works in a mysterious way we could never understand.
This ought to be a good discussion.
Sunday at 10 AM in Marion Indiana at 1240 S.Adams Street having a Healing service.
We are a third wave type church very Orthodox Continuistic . We are affiliated with the Evangelical Covenant Church.
It would be nice if you would come to Stienbach Manitoba Canada so I would be able to go see you guys so think about that be super awesome
Bill has always talked about the mystery, not just since Beni’s passing.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Mystery of God ALWAYS will to heal and prosper 😆😆😆😆
God heals all those oppressed by the devil.
I really wish I would’ve caught this one live! If it is not always God’s will to heal (or at least not yet because there is something in the bigger picture at play) then what is the point of James 5:14-16. Would love to hear your thoughts on this @Remnant Radio.
For this passage… The footnotes of the Passion Translation will help you understand. (It really helps me breakdown these verses) I am actually studying these verses today in fact. Abundant blessings to you!
What moves God to heal is complete FAITH that you stand on His word. God's word doesn't say he only heals some believers. God is a loving father and Jesus didnt shed His blood so He could only heal some of His sheep. If you dont get healed its because you lack faith that He wants to heal you, you need to repent of sin, you need to forgive, or you have a demon. God is not a man that He can lie! In everything, Christians are defeated for a lack of believing Gods word!
I have heard Bill Johnson say that exact thing.... God is in control but Hes not controlling
Hi around the 20 minute mark I wish Josh would have completed that thought about qualifying a statement.
I am 69 and have been a Christian since age 9. I have lived up and down with Hod, but I love Him above all. I have had deep heartbreaking, sobbing, hopeless depression and anxiety for 7 years. I have no idea what this is but it naturally pulls me back and forth. Am I saved? Is this my fault? Has God rejected?
God doesn't reject you or any believer if or when we face anxiety or depression. Elijah was depressed and burnt out and basically wanted to die. Almighty God didn't reject him and neither will he reject you.
Sometimes we may have an underlying physical problem, an issue with hormonal imbalance or nutritional shortcomings and we are not aware.
Sometimes our depression can be from a childhood trauma we have not overcome. And sometimes our depression and anxiety is spiritual. All in all we need to always cast our cares unto God for he truly cares for us.
Attacks will come, in this life we will have tribulations but we must never in these seasons think the Lord leaves or forsaken us.
I pray the joy of the Lord will be your strength. May the Lord's grace, mercy, peace, love and joy be multiplied to you. May you run the race, finish the course and keep the faith.
May the Lord comfort and strengthen you and may you know He's not far from you.
Keep pressing!
God has not rejected you. Pray specifically for God to show the source of it. It does make me wonder if this is a result of a curse of some sort. Sending prayers up for you.
God loves you so much and absolutely will not reject you- especially when you are suffering so much. I think there’s so much we don’t understand about depression and anxiety- like that it may often if not always be caused by brain inflammation. Not your fault, I’m certain. I’m praying God leads you to the help and healing you need (quickly!!!)
At 52:40 you guys are literally talking about deliverance!! (Wife being allergic to gluten) God is always after something deeper!!
the question is, when God doesn't heal, why? Bill Johnson says if you pray for someone and they're not healed, the problem is not "up there." That means the problem is either lack of faith or incorrect doctrine. There's no room for God's sovereignty or mystery.
Any of the either/or approaches are too simplistic and don’t represent the varied biblical data.
If He doesn't heal, it's because the person lacked faith or God simply deemed that it was better if the person wasn't healed in order for them to learn how to rely on His strength instead. God promises healing and that He is always willing to heal, but it doesn't necessarily mean that He will always choose to heal the person when they want it to happen.
You guys should have dr jeff Riddle talk about confessional bibliology/ textus receptus priority position
Yes eveyone only getting a temp healing.
Fullness in the age to come!
“Just to be clear, it’s kind of confusing.” -Michael Miller 😂
Always His will to heal but not to heal always
We are no different than were the people of OT Israel. God blesses them, they turn away to idols, God disciplines them, they return in repentance. Likewise we are prone to stray unless God allows suffering and hardship into our lives. Can God do healing in our times? He can and does. Is it the norm? No, for the aforementioned reasons.
James said you cannot expect anything if you doubt
The first rebutal against Bill Johnson's position, if what Josh points out is true than Jesus was wrong for address his disciples, blaming their little faith when they asked why they couldn't do what they should have been able to do by the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn't come back and say, well it just wasn't the Father's timing or the Father didn't want you to do it, but he wanted me to do it, rather he actually says, O unbelieving and perverse generation! How long will I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me! Mt.17:17 Then in verse 19 the disciples ask why were we not able to expel it? And he said to them, Because of your little faith.....Jesus puts the reason on the disciples and their lttle faith. I think if we are going to ask the question why couldn't we....Jesus would probably respond the same way. Just my thoughts. We've all come up with excuses for reasons and Jesus only ever gave one, little faith.
As a calvinist, the two-wills doctrine might be the one teaching that might push me over the line to Arminian.
It’s really problematic. (You can find my others comments here)
I would of thought double predestination would of been a problem ?
I am at 11 minutes of the discussion about Isaiah 53:4. This verse is not about the cross. The problem is that we have been taught that Isaiah 53 is only about the cross. It is about the life, death, resurrection and ascension. When Matthew said this has been fulfilled in chapter 8 it was fulfilled before the cross. It was fulfilled because he was a living human being as the son of God. We have healing not because of the cross but because he is alive today. We have to take seriously when the New Testament writers say a passage was fulfilled at a certain moment in time. Verse 4 happens during his earthly ministry and verse 5 is about the cross. In verse 5 when it says by his stripes we are healed it doesn't mean physical healing. The context is relationship healing, we have peace with God. It would be better to translate it as by his stripes we are reconciled.
I am my body.
When I get sick or injured, I heal myself - with a little help from a doctor/hospital.
BTW.Who is God?
Already but not yet
In Romans 9 we see explicit in scripture in the case of pharaoh that pharaoh served God's purpose but will still be held accountable for it. In Paul's two questions he anticipates the readers asking "Why does God still find fault" for "who resists His will?" and this shows two things. First that the reader got the correct interpretation, Pharaoh served God's purpose but will still be held accountable for his own disobedience.
Second, that not even Paul understood the HOW of how that works. After anticipating the readers two questions rather than answer the questions, or correct the questions to show the reader misunderstood what he was trying to say, Paul goes on to "double down" on the previous teaching using a lump of clay example. THIS is the mystery. Paul clearly defined the mystery for us and it is NOT that God is sovereign and man still has free will. The mystery is that God is sovereign in all things, yet man is still accountable for his sins. Paul couldn't explain how that can be, and neither can I, but it is clear the Bible teaches explicitly that in Romans 9.
My question is, is there an equally explicit passage that teaches God honors mans free will or a passage that teaches the greatest glory for God is to have man choose Him? What passage explicitly teaches that?
Great discussion guys as always. Appreciate what you guys do here so much.
you guys should bring Ken Fish on to talk about this topic.
Yeah about the integrated healing model! 👍🏻
They've talked to him about Freemasonry. I dunno if they've ever talked to him about healing yet. Love Ken.
So I have always had trouble w/ this idea whether it’s Gods will for every person to be healed. Mainly because w/ faith I prayed for my baby girl to be healed, w/o living in sin, and she still died. But I hear what your saying. My next question is is it God’s will for people to have a sick disease, deformity, etc. if so why?
My thought on the purpose of healing or deliverance has been for the glory of God so that people who will respond to these life situations that are deep or painful in repentance or intimate drawing. It’s for the potential, I just don’t have scripture to back up what I’m thinking. Also, it’s also a scary thought that even as much faith as I thought I had that my baby still died. If it’s true that my lack of faith killed my baby, I don’t know how to live w/o guilt that’s debilitating.
@@YungOzz23 I’m sorry to read about your baby girl. ❤ I can’t speak but from my own experiences and understanding but From your comment where you said healing was for God’s glory but you can’t think of a scripture to back up what you’re saying, maybe it was John 9? That comment reminds me of Jesus’s answer about the man born blind in John 9. Jesus said it wasn’t because of anything his parents did. 😢❤
Who says God has two wills, God is not double minded.
There were lots of quotes from modern or reformists, how about what the earliest church fathers wrote on these topics?
How well have we prepared our self. Every time Jesus delivered bad news, like in Matthew 25:31, Peter didn't listen well, he ignored the fact that Jesus said that I will be resurrected on the third day. Peter could have praised the fact that Jesus said he was going to be raised on the third day. If we are going to be healed, do we have a part to play. If I want faith for healing I think I better know his words by memory. Look at Mark 11:23-24. The lesson from the withered fig tree, v 23. Jesus doesn't emphasize the word believe, but he does emphasize the word say which is mentioned three times.
Have Ken Fish on and let him talk about memorials.
Based on what Jesus went through to purchase these things for us, I can confidently say that He wills to heal people more than I do.
I'm inclined to blame my unbelief before assuming God is not the Healer, that healing is not the children's bread. Not succeeding in healing is not a point of condemnation but a call to grow closer to Him as Jesus represented (and I believe intended by recommending praying and fasting).
This gets 'dangerous' when parents are told it was both (or worse, just one) of their lack of belief caused their baby not to be healed. Jesus healed people that didn't even know who he was, so I don't think it's only to do with our level of belief/ unbelief, that puts the emphasis on us, not God.
In my opinion there is also a link to the seven spirits of God to healing
Where we can find your own opinion in the Bible, sir?
Why? Is it because He predestined some of us as chosen and some to be cast off? Is that what I am?
Was the shriveling of the hand, blinding of Saul, plaques, etc... etc.... not Judgement???? That is a different issue and not at all related to the topic of healing. Maybe I'm wrong but that is how I see it. With Paul and some of the old testament stuff God also reversed the judgement and healed them, once repentance had taken place. Sickness in general is part of God's judgement in relation to the Fall in Genesis. 🤷♂
Interesting discussion. Would it be true according to the Word to say that healing is in the same category as salvation? It is not Elohim's (God's) will that any would perish. Yet most, because they continue in their sins, will. Likewise, it is not God's will that any would be sick. Yet most, because they continue in whatever makes them sick (lack of faith, disobedience to the commandments of the Lord, bad habits, circumstances beyond their control, God's discipline, God's judgment, whatever), remain sick. So, like we continue praying for the lost to be saved, shouldn't we, without presuming on God's timing or the reasons for the illness or infirmity, just continue praying for the sick? In other words, don't we need to avoid the temptation of trying to force either God's healing or His salvation into a box of our own understanding and just continue trusting Him to work it out for His glory? I'm thankful that's the conclusion with which you ended.
Question: How do you broach the sin topic with someone who wants healing so they don’t feel like you’re blaming them? Specific phrases?
Something like: hey, whenever we ask God for healing we want to be sure we’re in right relationship with him and one of the best ways to do that is to confess our sins . . . Also point to James 5:16 that connects confession with healing: Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.
I think if you're praying for them a good place to start is just explaining general spiritual housekeeping. The forgiveness bit is in the story of the servant who didn't forgive and got handed to the torturers. Or use a personal story about thinking you had forgiven someone and God told you to look deeper. Personal testimony is powerful and doesn't usually come off judgemental. Ask God to reveal anything that they need to repent for or anyone they need to forgive and ask them to let you know the first thing that came to their mind even if it didn't make sense to them. You can ask more questions from there. Also, if you *know* there is a specific sin they are already living in, that doesn't mean God won't work in another area of their lives, so definitely let God lead you.
Ppl need to be told the truth, not coddled. It's not always the case, but a lot of times sickness is the direct result of ppl sinning against their own bodies and not following the sanitation laws in the Bible.
As someone who has had serious health issues through my life, I wish people were more willing to talk with me about repentance, forgiveness, etc and how they can block healing. One way to approach is let’s mark this off the list of things to walk through with God….
If so contact Southland church 😁
What does the elect mean. Could it be a reference to a corporate body, Abraham was the start of Israel, this was the nation that Yahweh created. He made them a great nation, he elected and preordained the nation that came from Abraham and Sarah's faith. We see a corporate body emerging from the seed of Abraham.
I’ve had four healings: a hip injury, coeliac disease, ketoacidosis, and bowel cancer. I am so grateful for each of those, but what I struggle to understand is that I am very unwell - I have other illnesses which impact my life quite significantly - why am I not being fully healed? I have unshakeable faith that God heals, because I’ve experienced it. I don’t believe your healing has anything to do with your level of faith
why do you seem to expect full healing this side of death?
🤔🤔so in your view God is Bipolar
37:00 I definitely believe God has one will. God is not in absolute control of everything.. He gave it away when he allows us to choose.. BIG difference between decreeing sin and allowing the ability to choose life or sin..
Non-Calvinist don’t agree!
1. I want my son to clean my room
2. I want him to clean his room so I allow it to be dirty to get him to realize.
That is the same thing.. ultimately both scenarios have you wanting your son to have a clean room because it stinks and it is messy..
I have yet to hear a good explanation of calvinism. No one can explain it without being a snob or pissy.
So the question that needs to be asked then is...what is Satan's view of the two wills of God?
How about Job? Talk about a mystery...
"We will receive the fulling of the healing in the age to come." So what about the righteous who died before Jesus died and rose? Did they go to "Abraham's bosom" afflicted and had to wait until Jesus died and rose to be healed? Why would Jesus pay for something if we were going to get it anyway whether he died or not? I'm referring to healing. Also God did heal people in the Old Testament. So its not like people were not getting healed. Before Jesus died when the righteous died their body died (the body with the disease) and their spirit lived on. So that would mean their spirit was not diseased and naturally they would not experience the disease that afflicted their bodies.
The issue of faith wasn't really discussed. What if you don't have faith to heal?
Jesus rebuked His disciples for this reason.
Question; if there were places Jesus couldn’t do great miracles was it outside of God’s will in that moment to do those miracles or was it because of some sort of “lack” or “posture” of the people in that area?
It was because the ppl lacked faith.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 right so why wouldn’t that be the same today?
I have a new perspective on why Jesus couldn't do great miracles. It's not because he didn't have the ability, but it's because they did not have faith and make themselves available for him to heal them. Imagine this scenario, doctors from a rich country fly over to a native land, whose people have never seen people dressed like that before. Only a few people who are willing to bypass the fear come to them for help. The few who come to them get their illness treated. Thus, the doctors could only do a little to help them not because the doctors didn't have the ability, but because only a few natives were willing to come to them.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779
Matthew 11:23-24
"And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”
Healing is MORE than JUST in the Atonement. It is as promised in Is 53 for healing, as it is used for forgiveness of sins. The SAME Hebrew words griefs and sorrows (vs 4) are used for bear and bare (vs. 11, 12) our sins. You can NOT have forgiveness of sins without including healing of sickness AND pain.
@Johnny You are reading things into what I said other than what I actually said. Please copy and paste what you claim I said and show us how that contradicts the bible. I am merely pinning experience against what the bible actually says. Or, with this scripture, or better, what God has said.
If you cannot show us where I have spoken amiss, then this could be about how you feel and what your experience has been. Let God be true and EVERY man a liar.
I will take God's word over yours or even my own. Why? Because I love God, believe in His every word, and have seen His word proved true so many times.
God wants EVERYONE to be saved. But are they all saved? NO! Why not? Because not everyone meets God's conditions to be saved. The same is true with healing and everything else we receive from God.
Healing and provision are not automatic after the new birth. We have to know what He has promised, believe that is for me, stop worrying, and trust solely in Him (or whatever conditions He puts upon a promise). This goes back to Abram who staggered not at the promise of God (Rom 4:17-22).
If God has promised something to us and we fail to receive it and claim it is not our fault, we are not only blaming God, but calling Him a liar. Be careful. One day, we ALL will give an account. Don't feel that He will so easily overlook our disparaging of His word and character.
@Johnny We must decide if we accept God's word or our experience. Does He "forgive all our iniquities AND heal all our diseases" (Ps 103:3)? Has he borne our griefs (diseases) and carried our sorrows (pains) vs 4, 5, as he has beared our inequities and bared our sin (vs. 11, 12)? Same Hebrew words. Doesn't Matt 8:16, 17 back this up? The day you accept God's word over you experience is the day you experience God's word.
@Johnny When someone is steeped up in their own experience, and what they have learned from others, it can be difficult to listen to what someone else says without projecting their own strong beliefs upon them.
Much of what you said I never did say. Not only is it impossible for you to genuinely listen to another person and respond accordingly, you are not sincere in your responses, but only wish to save face.
If you truly desire God and His truth, you will pray and study to understand what the bible says in a good translation. It's not that you can't understand, but you are blind and refuse to acknowledge your impairment.
I did not say our experience does not matter of itself, but our experience must be subject to God's word. And only then might we have an experience based upon God's word, rather than some other experience.
I am NOT your problem. Your problem is that you cannot accept what God has said, and therefore try to circumvent His word and falsely accuse others who do accept His word. If you refuse to accept God's word, I cannot help you.
@Johnny Please give us one clear example of my using circular reasoning.
I think I feel my sin brought this on and I can’t forgive myself
I watched The Chosen! What are your thoughts on this? Also they do prayers thru HALO the app but is that app catholic ??
Just one question has anybody here seen for instance People suffering with alzheimer being healed after intercession
I have seen it. It can be connected with a generational curse, not all the time of course.
Can't it be both? So, God can't violate his nature, which he declares in the old testament and new testament is just, so discipline and consequences would be part of his nature, but so is mercy. His desire is good, but his holy nature cannot tolerate wickedness. But also he always gives us freedom because we are made in his image, and he also has freedom as long as it's not contrary to his nature. Just heard you kid explanation. That's exactly it.
Hey Michael Rowntree, I didn't know you were Calvinist. Goes a bit against the Charismatic vibe of the show! Are you a determinist too?
Calvinist assume if your not one of them then your an Arminian… it’s a wrong assumption
I mentioned Molinism in this episode. We have done an episode on that as well as on provisionism. Check ‘em out :)