Open But Cautious: Should Christians Be Open But Cautious About Tongues?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- Open But Cautious: Should Christians Be Open But Cautious About Tongues?
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The way I was taught to speak in tongues was to repeat someone else. Now I wrestle with knowing whether anything I might say in tongues is truly from the Holy Spirit or my own mind. I only want what is authentic.
I've had the exact same experience and I feel the same way! You are not alone
I've had that experience too and I wondered if what I had was real or not.
A real gift isn’t taught.
Initially, if you repeated a few syllables yes of course that wasn't real. If you persisted praying this as an exercise in stepping out in faith, your genuine prayer language would've taken over. Pray to Jesus for confirmation.
Same here. I know it’s not genuine… and won’t speak that anymore. but desperately want the gift. God sees our heart.. continue to pray the Lord will bless us with it!!
I have caution because the only time I have spoken in "tongues" glossolalia, I was on drugs and practicing shamanism. I also can't justify the idea of a private pray language. I know where the concept comes from, but I don't get that out of the text at this point in my walk.
I would also categorize myself cautious but open. Meaning, I take my walk cautiously, because of being spiritually abused and taken advantage of in the past. But, I am very open to seeing The Holy Spirit be active through the gifts. And, I have seen it. I just haven't witnessed tongues done with interpretation, or in a proven way that it is of GOD.
I just often find that places that "practice the gift" have such poor doctrine and embrace false teachers, that it would be hard not to find their "gifts" as having any validity. You guys give me hope that there is reform and questioning going on in the charsimatic branch of the faith.
So for now, Im asking that the Spirit would reveal to me my gifts and how to use it to support my local body and bring others to Christ.
It seems clear to me, through scripture, that Paul wanted tongues out of the church. Paul works hard to put tongues in their place, which is "let him speak to himself and to God". Paul is asking us to be zealous for the gifts that bring edification to the church. The biggest of this is love. Chapter 13 wasn't an "ADHD" moment where Paul gets side-tracked in between 12 and 14. Nope. It's the most important. It's why he says pursue love. He says, "Desire spiritual gifts, especially that you prophesy". Paul works hard in this text to de-emphasize speaking in tongues in public, driving it to our personal communion time with God, and motivating us to seek the gifts that benefit the body.
I was saying the Lords prayer (out loud) when I started speaking in tongues. I didn't ask for this gift but was very happy about it. I personally believe IF God has this gift for you it will happen. Relax and enjoy God. 💕
i was happier that i just learned to sing psalm 23 in hebrew after weeks of hard work in study and practice, english is my second language and i love it too. i love learning new languages without divine intervetion, because i can easily share my knowlege and joy with my neighbors and they also can learn about the jewish messaiah as well. i love the look on people's face when they audiblly understood God's word.
@@solideogloria5553 Sounds like God has gifted you in a beautiful way as well ♥️ Blessings to you Gloria 😇
@@ceegee777 thank you, i would call it a willingness to learn new things in the normal way since the creation,not really a special gift for anyone particular. humans have always learned language this way, Jesus the logos created language for us to commune with him through simple understandable logic. 1 cor 14: 8 In fact, if the bugle makes an unclear sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 In the same way, unless you use your tongue for intelligible speech, how will what is spoken be known? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different kinds of languages in the world, none is without meaning. God's word not mine, i could not have put it as clear and sharp (top notch writing skill) as Paul
"Cautious" to me means insisting that the gifts must be taught and practiced according to how they're taught and practiced in Scripture. I don't care if they're weird; I care if they're Biblical. In my years in charismatic churches, almost all of the manifestations were not.
Also, Paul's overarching point in 1 Corinthians 14:1-19 is that whatever is openly spoken in the assembly, in whatever language, should be understood, one way or another. He emphasizes that understanding is better. That's the point of the passage, which supports the chapter's broader context of orderly worship.
That leads me to think that verses 2 and 4, which are isolated as proof-texts for tongues that are not understood, are actually rebukes.
One more point: Discussion of tongues should include verses 21-22; why did Paul quote Isaiah? I hardly ever hear that even mentioned among charismatics.
Perhaps (if not going to later in the video), decipher between caution vs discernment
Discernment is the key. Pray for it in all things. Millers final words were so good. Pray at all times
I've spoken in tongues before initially when i first gave my heart to Jesus (we belonged to a pentecostal church at the time) but haven't in years like since childhood and I've seen so much fake tongues that definitely did not bear witness with the holy spirit, that i don't want to be that and so I struggle now because I WANT to speak in tongues but i don't agree with people who are like just repeat after me and start babbling. That has happened to me so many times and those times were so off I just refused. I could NOT do that.
It was wrong in that moment.
Now, I don't know how to genuinely "pursue" it. I mean I pray for it, but I'm not going to start speaking nonsense in the hopes of getting it back too.. that is what I'm wrestling with. How do you pursue it, HOW? It's not like someone can practice it when it just doesn't come.
And, is it not the gift giver the one who decides which gift to give to whom? I don't believe everyone will be given the gift, but scripture says to pursue it so how does one do that?
I don't see it as foolish. I see it as neat and for a specific purpose. But I don't know how to pursue it other than praying for it....
By the way, I regularly listen to the library. Love the whole premise of the program, all the topics and the guests. I wish more believers could speak openly and lovingly about these topics
I remember I was praying for some time and felt deep down in my gut that my words were no longer sufficient to how I was feeling. I felt frustrated that I could not find words enough to say and in that moment, out of my mouth came this other language. I was quite surprised. I Wasn’t expecting it like this. It didn’t feel weird, strange, tingly or anything else for that matter. So many of us want the gift, but I think our flesh can get in the way and we’re afraid we will feel some kind of way or we won’t have control, etc…there’s actually a freedom now for me. I can pray for hours letting Holy Spirit pray out the mysteries of the Father and I don’t have to worry if I’m praying rightly. Holy Spirit was teaching me about my gift and said each time you exercise your body, I want you to exercise your tongue. After days of doing this, I asked Holy Spirit what am I saying? I began to get pictures in my minds eyes and watched like a small video play out. Holy Spirit asked me what I saw….so I told him what I saw. It was then that I realized, I was interpreting the gift. So the more I exercise this gift in my time with the Lord, the more I am aware how diverse this gift is. I cherish this because it comes from the Father.
my hindo friends have the same if not better experiences, should i be jealous?
I love this
If you don't have control that isn't the Spirit...
Tongues are marvelous , this is a prayer language, 1cor 14 2. There is praying and prophecy in the church , paul said but in the church you need to interpet so they know what God is saying, even in our private Tongues that paul said you are building up yourselfs in your most holy faith, paul also said i pray in tongues more than you all he wasn't boasting Paul knew the power that tongues were, he knew when you pray in tongues answers were being met thin gs were changing, paul said in your private tongues, pray to interpret, thats God granting things , God loves us ,don't be afraid of it it is the most important prayer language granted to the church 😊
Michael’s comment @ 52 min regarding “explosive” tongues-perhaps could be an expression of tongues for intercesssion, an urgency for prayer for another person or situation. Verses the consciously choosing to start and stop for one’s own personal edification.
What a cool take on tongues!! Sound teaching, loving but firm instruction, and some great points made all throughout the video. Worth watching the full video for any who aren’t sure how they feel about tongues.
I deeply appreciate the personal examples of “tongues in the wild” y’all bring to the discussion. I come from a cessationist background, and was one of those that didn’t believe in tounges until I spoke it. At that point I had to reevaluate my stance 😂
There are so many bad examples of tounges, but it’s sooooo helpful to hear the good ones. Someday I hope to be in a church that encourages the use of all the gifts.
The challenge I have at the moment is that I am a member of an assembly whose elders tell me that they are open to the gifts but never make room for them in our services.
I want all the gifts. But I can’t produce it- induce it, psychologically, ( if I can just get in the right mind) - it has to come from God. That’s why people say their open to it. It’s like we need to ask for the gifts of the spirit, but then rest and trust, not fret and try to conjure the gifts.
When the house of Cornelius spoke in tongues it was evidence of the spirit infilling because it says the Jews present were astonished that the gift was given to the gentiles.
Love Luke 11:9-13. It’s a safeguard for us as we seek the Holy Spirit with genuine hearts.
Interesting how people throw out biblical guidance when it comes to tongues
Its more than guideance , it a whole new prayer language granted by God, clearly God rocks
Just remember, which is all important, God gives gifts as He decides. They are not our gifts, theyre His. And He has also made it clear that He distributes the gifts as He wishes, so that not all speak in tongues, not all prophecy etc. So even in a church where the gifts are regularly used, noone should expect to see everyone speaking in tongues or prophecying etc. There are numerous other gifts!
Actually, "Baba Baba" means Father Father in the Persian Language" Like a little child calling for his Father.
Yes I am Persian, and I speak in tongues
Soooooo glad I was open but cautious when I first got saved , otherwise I would have ended up being in a cult, thank God in my open but cautious posture God eventually made sure I ended up in the right fellowship where the cautious feeling was replaced by the HolySpirit and the rest is history.
I've become more cautious because I have seen Hindus and other pagans speak in tongues. How do I know that it's from the Holy Spirit?? Also, (and Lord, please forgive me!) but it seems like many people are speaking gibberish. Languages have structure to them. Repeating the same syllables over and over, or the same sounds over and over, makes me question the "language." Even languages I can't understand, I recognize the structure underneath it. I just don't know that we can assume that what a 21st century person calls "tongues" is exactly what Paul meant when he wrote Corinthians. I hate to quench the HS!! But when I see non-Christian religions doing the same things, it's hard for me not to wonder, "What did Paul REALLY mean?"
This is GOOD critical thinking. Don't let anybody make you feel ashamed
In Corinthians 14 Paul is NOT saying that prophecy is superior to tongues in general.... Prophesy was better in the context of the gathering, speaking to all, because the purpose of the gathering was for the edification of all present. In that context prophesy is more "profitable" to all. The superior gift is whichever gift is needed or profitable in that moment, because they all have a function, purpose and task. And this is not to suggest that the gifts always work independently, often they work in conjunction with other gifts. All of this as the Spirit wills, of course.... 😃 love the content guys. Blessings.
I’ll share my first experience speaking in tongues:
I simply started trying after praying for a while. It was basically the same couple syllables over and over again. It sounded fake. But I knew it was the Holy Spirit for two reasons:
1. I sought it out. I kept asking for it. Over and over and over.
2. When it happened, I was so overcome by the spirit that I almost fell over. I was shaking so bad I could hardly stand - and I can’t ever recall feeling the Holy Spirit that strong. And when the Spirit receded, so did the tongues.
The second time wasn’t until months later after I had prayed for forgiveness and deliverance and after I had forgiven everyone of everything, the gift came almost automatically. I have prayed in it since.
Over time, the sounds (words/syllables) have changed, but the dialect is the same. It really is like learning a new language.
And I say this to encourage anyone seeking the gift- keep seeking. It’s not for everyone but God desires to give us gifts that we will in turn glorify him with.
Amen.
The gifts are for the edification of the church...
After listening to this Ive come to the conclusion that 'open but cautious' is the biblical and wise pov of the gift of tounges as with other spiritual gifts.
that is true, providing that there is actually a way to judge the authenticity of any claims of gift, in this case, it has to be translated and the content has to be the Gospel or direct worship to Yahovah as in the bible days.
Part of the deception in the church today is assuming false gifts,signs and wonders are genuinely from the Holy Spirit.
A majority of it is not legit
I don’t think the “cautious” part is that tongues is weird. I think folks are cautious that tongues is known human language which the speaker has never learned…not ecstatic utterances
Recently came back from a church conference that featured musicians and speakers from the charismatic side of Christianity. I’m from a Southern Baptist background, but now find myself wanting to pursue the spiritual gifts (healing, prophesy, tongues, etc). Also, CCM and worship music hits different, since I’ve been back from the conference. I guess that’s an example of “encountering Jesus”?
Great video. Looking forward to the others.
@TheRemnantRadio I was from a charismatic church. I went forward for tongues and I felt pressure. Someone from the guest speaker and their crew came to me and was working me up. They then told me to repeat over and over again, banana, banana, banana. Goodness, soon I was talking out some words. I continued this for over a year and a half. I was a teen who wanted to worship my Savior but this was fake. I stopped it and felt it was wrong after realizing it was so made up and fake feeling. Yes. It was wrong. So God who can do anything, didn’t give me the real thing but a fake one? I believe you all put wayyy too much on a few scriptures. Also my sil was praying over me years later and “spoke in “tongues”. She went on to interpret her stuff and what she was saying was that God loves me more than my father who has let me down… my dad never let me down and is one in my family who was an encourager and so helpful and loving . My sil just had a motive. My parents were divorced and she assumed my dad was bad to me. She lives in another state. I was very offended at the fake words she wanted me to believe came right from God smh Too much charismatic problems in the churches that emphasize. God will work where He works. Stop over using scripture out of context. That’s my thoughts
Your statement “I believe you all put way too much on a few Scriptures” resonates with me. I read the few passages that many in the charismatic camp focus on and I’m so confused how they build these seemingly elaborate doctrines off those few verses.
I’ve listened to numerous Christians interpret these verses in different ways and I honestly don’t know how any side can be completely confident in their interpretation of these few rather unclear passages.
I also wonder if there are some social or cultural contexts that we are missing that would be needed to make these make complete sense.
@@Titus2BibleStudy ,I am so glad you shared your thoughts! No sides of having to prove something definitively as if we have quite clear teaching.
And yes. These verses may not be understood to us because we aren’t the intended audience. I think because God is Perfect and perfect in loving us, He wouldn’t leave us with doubt of not having enough Faith. Or that we have to reason out why God just doesn’t give us something if He wants us to have it. Like tongues.
So nice to “meet you”. God is good.
37:28 my gift of tongues started with one syllable- and it was difficult for me to grasp that with my mind. I knew something supernatural was happening, (it was a marking experience subsequent to salvation, and unique in nature in comparison to my coming to Christ salvation moment- glory to glory) but anticipated something far more eloquent. So it was difficult to submit to the gift given after that experience, to grow in the gift. Like, every-time we pray in our known language of understanding, we don’t feel the power and anointing, but we submit to prayer and every now and then, the Lord places a strong unction, and anointing on the prayer.
It threw me into studying it far more in scripture. And as I submitted to it, privately, more often in worship/song, it came like an overflow.
Pentecostal assemblies of Canada has changed they’re statement of faith as baptism of the Holy Spirit with tongues being one of the signs, but not always the initial evidence.
And I could be wrong, but also how Peter in Acts had continual subsequent “fillings” we are to continually pursue all the gifts and manifestations - that everything be dependant on the leading and the power of the Holy Spirit.
The tongues spoken on pentecost was prophecy but in a different language as a sign. It even says this if you keep reading saying as it was spoken by the prophet Joel I will pour my spirit and your sons and daughters shall prophesy. The other type of tongue is not a foreign language or native language but a heavenly language that no man understands.
I don’t really think I am open … I mean it’s possible for God - anything is possible through God. And I disagree with your “open but cautious” comment. If someone on the street told me they were open but cautious, I would take that as an opening and help them come to the lord.
Tongues was a gift at Pentecost to ensure that all of the Jews, who came from across the diaspora, were able to understand the apostles and hear the word of the lord. The apostles spoke in their language and it was understood by all. When I hear people “speaking tongues” it always sounds like babbeling, and I don’t understand what they are saying. If they were speaking in tongues, I should be able to understand it along with anyone else in the area despite their language.
Thoughts?
@@paulral now let’s wait on the interpretation of that…
@@paulral then why would 4 different subtypes have the same Greek word? There are different Greek words for the word “fear/afraid” for example, depending on the context and type of afraid (scared, reverence, etc). With a language as nuanced and specific as the Greek language, it would seem as though different variants of tongue would have a different word!
I am a Christian and for 30 years used to teach and debate my Charismatic friends that tongued ceased at the completion of the canon. I had every book you can imagine on the topic in my library. 4 years ago I had to eat humble pie and change my view 360 degrees. Yes, just because the majority abuse the gift now, as did the Corinthian church, it does not make it false.
1 Cor 1:7- All gifts will continue until try the Parusia, ie His Revelation ( Coming Again)!!
Does the Bible not reveal Jesus Christ?
What is the last book of the Bible called?????
The REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST
The word in Greek is ἀποκάλυψιν
apokalypsin
What is the last book of the Bible?
ἈποκάλυψιςApokalypsis [The] revelation
Ἰησοῦ Iēsou of Jesus
Χριστοῦ, Christou Christ,
@@tomtemple69
You're in error sir. The Greek word means:
1. To Reveal
2. Appearance
Here it means the gifts will not cease until the revelation/coming of Jesus, ie His 2nd coming (in the air).
God bless
@@robertrodrigues7319 so you're just gonna ignore the REVELATION of Jesus Christ, the last book of the Bible? It's literally in the name
And the definition you gave, the first definition of reveal
@@tomtemple69 I ignored NOTHING. I gave you the 2 meanings of the word. I said in context it refers to the APPEARANCE of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I enjoy the subjects brought up
We are cautious because of the abuse
I dont have the gift of TOUNGUES but I PRAY in TOUNGUES daily.
I started speaking in tongues like I was learning a new language, a few words at a time.
Yielding is how any receives as I understand.
Famine. It seems to me there is a famine of solid well balanced churches. On one hand we have many cessainionist churches and then on the other we have churches that claim to walk in the charismatic gifts but in a blatantly unbiblical way. Its hard to find a church that loves Jesus,loves people,loves scripture and lovingly pursues all the gifts and seeks to apply them in line with scripture. but it does seem God is at work in raising up believers to walk in the whole council of scripture, maybe as more churches walk this out,the more believers will step up and step out of the open but cautious camp.
No one should be open and cautious but practicing and cautious.
Starting off with simple black and white shapes is how I started to see visions them as I practiced in prayer I started seeing outlined, then fill images, then spots of color, then full color.
Also, who can say that the tongue someone is speaking isn't a dead language or a known language in 400 years from now?
I don't understand how people can speak in tongues whenever they want, if it is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I think there is an answer out there, I just need someone to explain it to me.
I think some of the disagreement here is due to semantics, what does it mean to be cautious. I don't think it necessarily means hesitant to pursue the gifts. I think it can mean cautious in the exercising of the gifts.
So I'm pushing back on the 'rebuke' of those who are open but cautious. Considering the abuses of the spiritual gifts we've all seen, the misuses, and outright faked gifts, how is caution bad? Scripture teaches to test the spirits, that they're subject to the prophets, that they're to be exercised in specific ways and contexts.
I'm in a Pentacostal church that really promotes tongues but has a low view of the scriptural guidelines.
The caution in exercising the gifts does cross over to the non sign gifts, teachers - teaching biblical truth, or evangelists - presenting the true Gospel etc.
Love you guys!
How about open and wanting to follow the Lord's commandment set forth by Paul for orderly church services. Believers don't get to pick and choose which scripture they adopt and which the disregard.
Yup I bring this up and my parents just avoid it
The comandment in hebrews chapter 9 and 10 show that thae comandments were obsolete , up to rhe cross there were no more use for the comandments , The new birth , was why Jesus came, he redeemed us through His blood forgave us of ALL our sins. Made us to sit in heavenly places,In Him thats ephesian 1, all the epistles show what happened in Christ, on the Cross, we are free , indeed, Christ finished the work, because we couldn't, Thank you Jesus,😊.
Shalom brothers, I'd like to ask you something, ok usually when I read or hear testimonys about someone getting the tongs, he or she is being filled with Holy Spirit and the Words just come out of mouth for the glory of God. Then there is the second group that are more like couraged to practice it. In this second group iv seen the teaching of tongs happen like this, a believer is asked to say: "thank you Lord, and pastor goes like now do it faster, more faster and lil more and then when it becomes gibberish because of the speed it's tongues. Another teaching we got here in Finland is that when you get babtised you have to speak in tongues, or otherwise "you do not believe enough" for me it happened in following: i was just new born in Christ, it was my third week as a believer and i wanted to get babtised before that they said to me now we going to pray you tongs by praying on tongs (no inteperation) and you just start to make noises, so i did it as they told and then where like "whoa son,now look what's happening, i bet you surprised" i felt stupid and that i was doing it in my own power.
I desire the tongs, i really do, i know it is a true Spirit Gift, but i feel ashamed to use it because the way it was "given" to me, is this biblical at all, or should I continue? Sometimes i speak in tongues without pushing it at all, and I'm real happy about it :)
The chat blew up yesterday with a cessationist claiming tongues ceased in AD 70. That's where I wanted to land because of crazi-matics. I had 2 problems with landing here. I discuss them in my book. First, I couldn't get scripture to take me there. Second, I couldn't get church history to take me there. I ran to church history and studied second generation teachers. NONE of them believed that. NONE. Not Irenaeus who wrote: "... and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages" . Not Justin Martyr. Not Tertullian. Clear up until the dark ages spiritual gifts were still in operation in the church. It seems odd to me that for 1,900 years of church history nobody taught the gifts had ceased until the whacked-out Pentecostals forced tongues down the throats of the American church and made it the gift of all gifts. They brought strange new doctrines to the church, so the other side responds with another strange new doctrine. "Tongues are the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit and everyone should speak in tongues, even in public settings" AND "Tongues ceased and are no longer for today". Both are damnable heresies equally destructive to the church.
I’ve attended a Brethren church for the past ten years and nobody (that I’m aware of) speaks in tongues. I wouldn’t call the church cessationist but I’ve never heard anyone speak or train anyone in the more charismatic gifts of the spirit. I believe in all the gifts (though I don’t speak in tongues myself) and have had conversations with other church members about those gifts. I was told that nobody (in our church) speaks in tongues because there is no one with the gift to interpret. I disagreed but wondered what your response to this person might be? Thanks!
Hey, new into! Cool.
Great discussion! Some things discussed, definitely were eye openers. I've definitely been struggling with the topic of tongues since 2019. My paternal late grandpa spoke in tongues and my grandma still with us, I assume still speaks in tongues. My grandparents were also the most godliest people I've ever met. Tongues has scared me a little, especially when listening to certain cessationists basically claim you to be of the devil speaking "gibberish." I definitely see in Scripture that all the gifts are still for today. Definitely a lot for me to think about and seek, God, on.
Although I tend to have a similar theology, there is a passage in Acts where Peter asks "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?' Does that not perhaps indicate that in the 1st century, when someone came to believe/was baptised in the Spirit, it was obvious? If you were to ask the same question today of many believers, I suspect many would say, what do you mean, as there was no obvious manifestation?
I'm sure there are some at my church who fake tongues, maybe subconsciously.
Yes, many are trained to start saying random syllables then keep going
You can't learn a gift 🤔
How do you know when you're genuinely speaking in tongues? I don't find toungs weird or repulsive, I have grown up around it and do genuinely desire it. I just want to make sure that I'm not just babbling and I'm actually speaking in tongues. I've had people tell me just to copy their tongues and I don't feel like that's right. Am I just overthinking this?
Yes you're over thinking. In your quiet devotion time pray in tongues daily. It will feel stilted & very awkward . and don't worry if all you can do is a short burst. Just be consistent. In your other praying, ask for God to confirm it's real. If you persist God will send a confirmation. I was as hesitant as you but God graciously confirmed it twice
@@DiGi377 I disagree- it seems that speaking in tongues results in us not thinking or working through things in our mind our praise and adoration of our Lord.
Our understanding of God and who he is, is necessary . I cannot see how speaking in babbling tongues is edifying when we don’t know what we’re saying.
@@DiGi377where is that in the Bible?
@@DiGi377the gifts are for the edification of the church...
How are people baptized by the Holy Spirit the minute of conversation when Paul asks in Acts, have you received the Holy Ghost since you’ve believed? They say we don’t even know if they’re be a Holy Ghost and THEN they were baptized in the Holy Ghost. So, being baptized as soon as you accept Jesus as your savior isn’t true.
Christians should be open to tongues if they are the initial evidence of the spirit infilling. But cautious in the use for messages and interpretations.
There is a time and place for everything, if you are in Russia and dont speak russian and are now preaching/singing in russian thats the gift of tongues!
I spoke in tongues with the message interpretation through someone else the first time way back 32 years ago after being prayed for to receive the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit It was and subsequently always interpreted as a message from the speaker to God and not as prophecy ie. God to the hearers as explained in scripture. I have been in many assemblies over the years where the gifts of the Holy Spirit were being used and sometimes sadly abused and even more sadly counterfeit gifts being used. These experiences has helped me greatly in my understanding how they should actually function.
this sounds about right, if this gift is still in use today, would appreciate if God would gift it to the missionaries who don't have a electronic or personal translator, other than that i cannot think of a reason . God never wasted a single miracle. profits and "apostles"/apostates love to fake those gifts to woo the itching ears of spiritually dead goats.
Our Bible study just finished 1 Peter and before that James. Pretty much the beginning and the end of the Apostolic era. I do not notice any preoccupation with altered states, signs and wonders, or even the Holy Spirit. Are we preoccupied with things the Apostles were not?
Hi! I just wanted to point out that Michael mentioned 3rd wave Charismatic/Holy Spirit as what you all believe regarding the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I never heard of that, but it sounds a lot like how I have always viewed BHS. So I will look into it more including some of your past videos. But the thing I found confusing is that when I do an internet search of third wave Charismatic, I get some really weird articles that either seem to distort what you have said or define 3rd wave as something more along the lines of hyper charismatic. I know this is not what you mean, but I am finding myself more confused than ever at this point. Is this a term misused by many Charismatics? Just trying to figure it out.
Watchman Née- famous Chinese missionary teaches that when we are practicing the gifts, we are extra vulnerable to Satan, and therefore need to be very discerning.
John says there are many false spirits, test all spirits
Highly highly recommend the book "the friend i never knew" by dr. Robert Morris. Great book covering the Holy Spirit and the gifts.
What type of doctor is he?
Robert Morris is 100% a false teacher
Of course you think that, most pharisees do not like teachers who walk in the Holy Spirit and live in a deep relationship with God.
@@enhancedcareers7661 you seriously need some discernment
I did use discernment. Your statement regarding a declared servant of God, does not represent the main tenants of the life of christ, love, mercy, grace, and forgiveness. If you really are a true follwer of Christ you would be promoting others to pray for him (love), you would promote understanding not criticism (mercy), you would offer your wisdom regarding life with the Holy Spirit (grace) and promote others to forgive any percieved wrong (forgiveness). This is the "way" of being a follower of Christ. I would reccomend that you bow your knee before christ Jesus, sender to his lordship and trully receive the Holy Spirit. Then you can begin to learn how God sees you so you can see who you really are and how to love your neighbor as Jesus's loves us all.
I think by cautious, people mean that they are scared that Satan can fool us and fill us with pride. Other religions, cultures speak in tongues. I think it is an ability all people have. The Spirit uses it to edify us, but we do need to be cautious (discerning).
The gifts are for the edification of the church... Peter and Paul both say that
Two questions I have from listening to someone else on this matter: 1) What do you guys think about this passage as it might relate to tongues?
“And this is the writing that was inscribed: Mene, Mene, Tekel, and Parsin. This is the interpretation of the matter: Mene, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; Tekel, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting; Peres, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.””
Daniel 5:25-28 ESV
Is that good evidence that seemingly monosyllabic babbling might be legit? I think so but I wonder if you guys have thought about that passage? It’s OT but it seems to be some kind of precursor.
2) He endorses praying aloud in tongues to the hearing of others if it’s one voice prayer. That is, every individual is praying all at once technically, they’re not speaking to each other and so there’s no need for interpretation. What do you think?
@@paulral I’m beginning to be all for the one voice prayer in tongues but for the longest time, I really did feel people who did that were being disobedient. It wasn’t until he differentiated between leading a prayer in a way that required people to say amen and just praying together, that I began to see things differently. I’m still curious if RR guys have ever heard this angle.
What is does the poster behind Pastor Roundtree represent? The deer man thing?
52:42 absolutely- this goes with my last comment- sometimes it’s a welling up from deep or a Holy endowment from on high that unctions the tongues- other times you submit to it like as if you where praying in your native tongue.
Is it possible when Paul says that even if I speak with Tounges of Angels that he was hyperbolic?
He was being hyperbolic
Plus every time angels speak, its in the person's native language
how can anyone enjoy something they don't understand? if you are open, make sure you are open for Holiness, "words with no meaning " is by definition nothing to do with holiness, God reveal himself to us with our own languages for his glory, God judged the world in babel by "the original tongue" and the result is confusion. if we are happy with speaking gibberish, i don't see the point of preaching . can any thinking person get this simple point??? you don't even need to be able to read to understand my point. this is the lower end of human reasoning and common sense, if the people of Yahovah(the revealer of mysteries which is christ) is open to post modern concept , we are as good as walking dead, this is rather embarassing. i weep for new agers, but my hearts torn for christians who struggle to understand basic common sense. the context for 1 cor is in our face: Love and order in church, not personal prayer language that nobody understand. i may not be an english professor (englishi is my second language or tongue if you wish), but i have basic God given reading skills to know what is context. not looking down on anyone, i wish someone would point out these simple points to me when i was a baby believer who understandably labored a while in trying to figure out those issues relating to spiritual gifts. thank God words have meaning and thank Jesus he left me his translatable love letter to me (the bible) so that i can know him and be off the curse of babel that is BLL(confusion and rebellion). be blessed in Yeshua's name, amen.
I'm for it and I practice it. The main opposition I encounter is that others (cessationists) say the it's meaningless babel and not another language. So is it a heavenly language, other languages or a mix of both? And are there verses to back up a given position? Can it be tested using an AI to determine/decipher the language being used? Again, I'm for it. I just need more info to counter the unbelieving believer.
I have had the same experience as Mike described around @50:00
I apologize for my uncouth manners. I am still struggling with my passions. As a former Pentecostal I have opinions about speaking in tongues.
@@paulral thank you for your kind words, but I should not have thrown around the word "heretic" in the previous stream I don't believe it was beneficial or edifying. Blessings in Christ.
Tongues in prayer ---once I kept praying in tongues every time I prayed for 3 days-- later I realized that I was praying for my son who the next day was in a car wreck. Tongues will say a prayer for future needs that you do not know about.
So someone can't pray for the future in their native language?
I love how you ended on marching orders. Reminds me of C.S. Lewis.
It‘s interesting that when it comes to edifying oneself they run straightly to Jude, but they don‘t go two chapters back, where it explicitly says that the gifts are for the COMMON GOOD. So, if you edify yourself with something that is meant for the common good, you are actually doing something that is not right, biblically speaking. How dishonest…
When I have a physical aversion to a concept like tongues, taken from obscure biblical references and is tied to demonic possession, then Jesus is telling me no. And we are told NOT to seek out gifts of the spirit realm. If it's not in the ten commandments we don't need to mess with it.
30:33 just a couple of thoughts. It’s not someone’s theological perspective on tongues being the initial evidence, but it is constant patterns from scripture not opinion. But that being said, I think Paul was riding the church of Corinth because they were abusing and looking down on each other, and doing what we do, something, God gives us and perverting it and making it about us. I teach my church that there are no varsity or junior varsity Christians, but just like every gift from the same spirit speaking in tongues is available for every believer. And scripture maps out that there is power in the dwelling. That’s not a theological opinion that’s what Jesus said an X18. So from the context, there is a difference. We just have to be careful to not make it about us and focus so much on tongues, and more of being led by the spirit. that’s how I understand it
Question is this….is it blasphemy against Holy Spirit if you speak in soulish tongues and it’s not Him?
One of my issues is that I do not see any situation in Scripture we’re people sought out tongues. There was never a situation were people were praying for the gift of tongues. All of the people in Acts were surprised by tongues. It’s something that wasn’t expected to happen, but did.
In the upper room, they were waiting because Jesus told them to. Not because they were seeking tongues. And in this situation, they were given actual earthly languages. Also, if we’re are gonna use Acts 2 as our standard, why do people not have the visible tongues of fire over their heads like those people did?
Also, I understand that Scripture tells us to desire spiritual gifts, but never does it tells us to SEEK them. Actually, it tells us not to chase signs.
I believe that the Holy Spirit can, does, and will fill Christians with spirit gifts, but He does it based on his own sovereign will.
And Paul is speaking to the entire Corinthian church, not individual people
So they should desire that the entire church manifest all the gifts, at least one person with each gift
Why do my brothers and sisters in the faith continue to say that scripture commands us to PURSUE spiritual gifts? the Bible never commands such. It says to PURSUE love, but to DESIRE spiritual gifts, ESPECIALLY the gift of prophecy. There is a distinctive difference between pursue and desire. It's OK for a woman to DESIRE a husband, but she should not PURSUE one. Check the definitions of PURSUE verses DESIRE.
Thank you very much.
Im not 100% convinced that the tongues spoken at the start of Acts are exactly the same as what you would call the gift of tongues. Paul said quite clearly that the person who speaks in tongues 'edifies himself' rather than anyone else, which is the main purpose of the gifts (edifying others). In Acts this was very much a public situation, when those speaking in other tongues/languages were understood by the different nationalities gathered watching. It was public praise but not spoken in Aramaic or Greek. This is quite different to the modern practice, which I am against, of public speaking in tongues en masse in a church gathering, which does the opposite of what the gifts are supposed to - it alienates others.
Do you have to speak in tongues to be saved? All throughout Acts people are speaking in tongues upon believing. Yet I’ve never spoken in tongues. It makes me afraid I’m deceived and not really saved
No! You’re saved by faith & repentance, you have to be born again and get sealed with the Holy Spirit.
it is possible for a person who had the experience recorded in Acts simply just to speak in tongues at the moment of infilling and just at the moment of infilling?
If they keep worshiping false gods, God will give them 12 Real Ones.
Is speaking in tongues different from worshipping in tongues?
can we all be open for Love, faith and hope? if you want to be a missionary but cannot find or afford an electronic or human translator, i would pray for you for the gift of genuine ability to speak the gospel to indiginous people in translatble languages(their mother tongue as in acts and 1 cor). if you desire this gift but not in the way Jesus intended for it to be used(i.e. the mission field, not even in church for believers by the way 1 cor 14), then i gently encourage you to think twice and repent (like i did when i was confused on this topic), and i will gladly share with you my personal tips of learning a second language. i may not have this gift of speaking foreign translatable language but i do have the gift of patience and hard work. i love learning english and hebrew, because my understanding of my savior is deeper and better even without divine intervention. thank God he speak hebrew and provided servents to translate his word for asian sinners like me.
@@paulral you just form your doctrine on one passage taking out of context, i can do all things .. with a passage out of context, the context is not that paul do not understand his tongues, you can assume that if you wish, but paul else where i mean literally everywhere elsewhere is punching the point of "knowlege, understanding, love, building up the church, order, self control..." if i follow my flesh and someone i admire as a teacher(heidi in your case), i can make up my own jesus and will end up joining the post modern zeigeist
@@paulral so you are saying that he understand his own words?
@@paulral no offense, what is the point of going throuth this when i can just pray and praise my God with my mother tongue or music? honestly, i am not being funny, personally i can think of zero gain in terms of my holiness and understanding tof my saviour through this type of practice. not to mention it is indistinguishble to new age practice. God bless.
Do you always know what you’re saying when you pray in tongues?
Question? Did the converts previously speak in tongues in their temples? Of course that would have been satanic. Wondering about historic context.
@@paulral Look up American linguist Felicitas Goodman. She researched and explored Pentecostal congregations in Mexico.
What do you do, when you somehow know that the Communion cup has been physically poisoned? Do you take it and throw up in front of the church, or do you refuse whatever that may look like?
True story, I think. Maybe it wasn't poisoned, but I wasn't going to risk it.
Mark 16 says if you drink poison you will not be harmed
If being open but cautious is a sin, and sin equals death and seperation from God, Does that mean being open and cautious can make u lose your salvation and go to hel
When it comes to all of the other gifts, I can see how it glorifies God and benefits the body of Christ. Not so much with tongues- unless you're overseas and praying for people who speak that language. God understands all languages so He wouldn't need us to pray to Him in a different language. So, what's the point? Why speak in tongues?
Because in private use if done consistently, it edifies you. Do you not want your faith built up?
Research has been done on believers praying in tongues. The brain scans show activity in different areas of the brain compared to regular praying.
I take this to show we are designed to do this. We know animistic religions often have ppl going into trance states, speaking in babble. Modern skeptics call this superstitious nonsense. To me those ppl are tapping into a phenomena that the brain is designed for. Except as Christians we know what's they're doing is demonic. Mankind is designed to access the supernatural realm. The superior way is a connection to Jesus. The counterfeit way is a perversion of that.
Beware of blaspheming The Holy Spirit... The one unforgivable sin. There is a reason Jesus said it was profitable for us that he leave so he could send the Hold Spirit AND all the gifts that come with.
Would it be weird to record myself speaking in tongues and somehow send it as audio comment? I'm not tech smart.
So I've come from a cessationist camp to being a continuationist, but with the understanding that some of the gifts have been misunderstood in the modern day. Tongues for example being other languages. I think I would need to walk through every passage and see what fits the context best, and take a closer look at the original language and how it was translated and see it's contemporary usage to come to a different conclusion. Thoughts on that?
Every time the word tongues is used, it's a language, glossias
@@tomtemple69 I have learned a lot since this comment. I agree that it is another language with 2 fundamental understandings.
1: It may not be a human language still in use today.
2: It may not be a language humans ever spoke (Tongues of angels 1 Cor 13:1)
But the gifts are absolutely for today. That much is inescapable from the Bible. If you want to argue about tongues, go off I really think that gift is a bit overrated when we have prophecy, healings, casting out demons, etc.
@@williamragle1608 1 corinthians 13:1 is not saying that there are tongues of angels, that was being used by Paul as hyperbole
Go read verse 2 and ask yourself if it's possible for humans to do those things in verse 2
@@williamragle1608 no one debates healings, everyone prays for that
But what about things like down syndrome? Do you know anyone who's ever been healed of that? If so, why not? And prophecy should always be 100% inerrant, the Spirit does not lie
And casting out demons is for unbelievers
Someone with the Holy Spirit can not have a demon
I do agree the gifts are in operation, I don't agree with many many charismatics who don't follow what the Bible says about them
The Bible says tongues are foreign human languages(see acts 2)
Prophecy is 100% true if from God (see agabus in the book of Acts)
Healing doesn't always happen(Paul couldn't heal trophimus or Timothy
And casting out demons only happened to unbelievers, no one with the Spirit ever had a demon in Acts or anywhere else in the Bible
Many charismatics disagree with almost every point I've made
@@tomtemple69 1 Cor 13:2 And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
Prophecy - well, I believe in and have seen the prophetic, so yes in the Spirit this is possible.
Know all mysteries - Because of scripture I believe that that the Holy Spirit is a revealer of mysteries (Dan 2:28-47)
...and all knowledge - words of knowledge are literally a gift of the spirit (1 Cor 12:8)
All faith so that I can remove mountains - isn't this exactly the words of Jesus? Matthew 17:20 He told them, “It was because of your little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; nothing will be impossible for you.”
I have heard that Paul was using sarcasm here before. I want to sincerely challenge you on that view. Find each other place that sarcasm is used by Paul. Find each other time Paul points out error. Did Paul pull punches? Read Galatians. Read 1 Corinthians 5 and 11. When he was sarcastic, it is immediate rebuke lest anyone think he was serious, read Romans 6:15, 2 Cor 11:11, In the OT Sarcasm is also used 1 Kings 22:15-18. The Bible's style, and Paul's style is not to hide his sarcasm so subtly. That is deceit and sinful and would not be in our Bible. A plain reading reveals that he may have been showing the perfect image of those gifts, but not so impossible that the Corinthians would have taken this as anything other than genuine instruction.
Let me bring it to our day. Military pilot says "If I can do a double flip while shooting down the enemy but didn't know my ally was on the other side of them, I am skum" What is he saying? Is he saying that pilots can't do flips, or even double flips? Is he saying that pilots can't shoot down the enemy? No, he is saying that even if you have the most fantastic expression of this skill but lack the fundamentals then you are worse than the person that can't even fly a plain! Go back and read 1 Corinthians 13:1-2 again with the eyes that the Corinthians would have read those verses - with the assumption that the gifts of the spirit are for today and this apostle might just have something important to tell me!
For good measure, read verse 3 with it. Can humans not give everything away? Can humans not lay down their life for a cause? Did Paul go from kinda sarcastic, to really sarcastic, to genuine? NO! It is a large point he is building on to talk about love. Get this right and it will unlock the entire Bible for you. I am not joking. I am not being hyperbolic. Take me exactly as seriously as you should take Paul in this passage.
When people "do tongues" publicly in 2023 USA, is there EVER an interpreter??
Like, ever at all???
The answer is no, correct? Or am I wrong?
The most loving thing I could say to someone here reading this, who actively "speaks in tongues" publicly without an interpreter, is to gently tell you that maybe, just maybe, its not in your best interest.
Stop and think about what your doing.
Did it occur to you, that you have lost all touch with your surroundings and no, that's absolutely not a good thing?
Speaking in tongues, PUBLICLY, in scripture, without an interpreter, benefits noone around you. It's lacking in self-control, sows confusion, and is a generally unhealthy symptom of something below:
*mental illness
*stress/sickness
*poor doctrine
*self-indulgence
*mockery of God's power
*misplaced pride
*lack of love for true doctrine
*lack of faith
Maybe that's not you, but think about it.
It has recently been happening in my church. We are not an overtly charismatic church. It was very beautiful
Of course its rampant in Pentecostal churches. Fifty years ago that wasn’t done.
@@JP-vq6ku Tongues with an interpretor?
In my church it occurs in moments of corporate intercession or worship (singing). We are praying together but not in unison & each chooses whether to do that or not. It's quite beautiful. These situations are not about making a declaration to the body that would require an interpretation.
@@DiGi377 Thank you for sharing.
Having said what i said in the original post, it should be acknowledged that our understanding or knowledge of how God interacts with each of us is at best incomplete..
For example, it could be God interacts with some of us in a manner that by compelling us to speak in tongues (even unidentified languages), he fulfills a purpose unknown to those around them like ourselves.
Unlike the tongues in scripture, which served a discernible purpose.
All things, gifts, ought to be considered, to seek where all things land among the two great commands.
Not to condemn or to burden those who confuse us or even ourselves, but to strive to be set free by living in righteous faith, truth, and love. To honor with tender care, Jesus our Christ as Lord.
Hi fellas, would you try to get a preterist on your channel, just want to hear their explanation on Nero being 666 yet Jesus didn’t destroy him. And he died in AD 68
Imagine if someone had the gift of interpretation and didn't know it because everyone speaking in tongues just sounds like they're praising God in their mother tongue
You think someone would never know that others in the church have tongues?
The spirit is given when you believe? Where is that in scripture.
@@paulral i simply look at acts 8. It makes it abundantly clear BHS is not on conversion and is evidenced by tongues.
@@krazzykracker2564 Acts 8 doesn't mention tongues.
@@krazzykracker2564 Moreover, an alternative perspective would suggest that the delay of the Samaritans receiving the Holy Spirit was so that the apostles could be eye witnesses and thus, have external evidence that salvation is available to all (due to ethnic prejudices, *those of the circumcision* still had some hold ups about fellowshipping with non-Jews). We see this idea come up again in Acts 10/11 and in Gal 2 when Paul rebukes Peter for distancing himself from the Gentiles.
This may sound like a really weird question, but I love learning languages to be able to spread the gospel. Is this useless since the gift of tongues or should I still learn languages? ( I also ask for spiritual gifts too)
I don't think that is weird at all! Quite the opposite, it is wonderful that you have been gifted to be able to learn multiple languages and then leverage that for the Kingdom. None of the Spiritual gifts diminish other skills that we can obtain or hone and use for the gospel. Keep in mind that the things we are "naturally good at or "gifted" in are also gifts from God. It's who He made you to be. Blessings!
@@williamphelps4552 that makes sense thanks!
"Though I speak with tongues of angels..." angels are heavenly beings who speak a heavenly language, which would not be an earthly language.
That is hyperbolic, Paul isn't saying there are tongues of angels
If that were true, then Paul says its possible to know all knowledge in the next verse
Paul only walked with Jesus about 20 years. That’s not very long to develop maturity in the gifts. Anyone who says they speak in tongues more than anyone, seriously (?!) everyone else (?!)) has serious ego problem. Why people blindly follow Paul with all his problematic personality traits needs to realize that’s just idolatry! No wonder he didn’t understand what he was praying! Perhaps it was bc he was too proud of himself. How did he feel edified while praying in tongues if he wasn’t also being given understanding. while praying? He doesn’t always make sense folks! After praying in the spirit both in the heavenly language, diverse foreign languages and also with as the decades passed with more and more understanding within my spirit like when The Holy Spirit gives you an entire paragraph or concept, just drops it into the innermost part of your being in the blink of an eye! Paul had what he was experiencing after only a couple of decades. I often wonder what he might have learned in a couple more decades had he been able to revise yea, update what he’d grown to be able to grasp and thus more clearly been able to teach without his own limitations taught as gospel. Paul said what he wrote was his gospel, Jesus said This is Not my Gospel. Always follow Jesus Christ and don’t idolize Paul!
@@michelesweet533 first of all, no where in the bible does it say "heavenly languages"
in Acts, they are foreign human languages
you're adding something to the Bible that isn't there
Okay, with that reasoning, when Paul mentions being taken to the 3rd heaven but then says he can’t really speak of it, that it’s forbidden to speak about his experience, if you’ve personally never had a similar 3rd heaven experience like he only alludes to just bc he didn’t clearly define in his writings what he heard and saw, exactly, what he experienced, does that mean since you haven’t had anything even close, (to most of his experiences) does that make these types of experiences are not so? If you’ve never even personally been spoken to by a bonafide angel revealing himself in full glorious regalia, which is obvious from your protestations, then perhaps you might want to consider the fact that there are more things in heaven and earth then you have conceived or are written about in the Scripture Texts. There is so much of the early apostles lives not written about clearly in Acts, that only those who’ve experienced a similar life in Christ walking in the spirit, operating in the spiritual gifts with the Holy Spirit moving mightily and with many of the first disciples historically, their acts are for the most part hidden, perhaps bc they wanted to remain anonymous. You’ve become dull and blinded by your limited straining of the gnat, a form of God yet denying the power thereof. Our Creator is so much more creative than you’ve ever asked, thought or imagined. Give it a rest.
in a heavenly tongue* typo
Really? You HAVE to speak in tongues to be biblical?! Especially when so many ppl fake it, and you can't tell me that they don't, whether knowingly or not. Nowhere in the bible does it say you have to speak in tongues. In fact, Jesus says the "poor in soirit will inherit the Kingdom of God."
I was taught tongues when I was a teen at hyper charasmatic conference. I was always skeptical and wondered whether my “tongues” was genuine. Since Gods really transformed me in the last few years I know it is not genuine. I desperately want the genuine gift! Praying God will bless me with it!