My question here is: Since I have been focusing on getting a greater stimulus on the longer part of the muscle, how could we make this exercise more stable using a stretch mediated hypertrophy approach? Don't know if my wording is correct here but I think you know what I mean. I have been feeling a much greater result when I do all of my exercises coming out of the greates stretch. Thanks man, you have already changed many of my exercises & I have been having really good results with them. Much Love, Karsten 🙏🏼🥰
Ben, great insight. I might have a more practical way to decrease that shoulder moment, which is bending over just like you're gonna do a kickback but you leave the cabe pulley right above your shoulder. That way you have a big stretch, the force curve has its peak at the highest stretch and at the same time you have a minimal shloulder moment. Whaddayathink?
@@overtonpendulum2071 there are only some muscles which get benefits from Stretch mediate hypertrophy but triceps aren't one of them get most result in shortened position.
def gonna use that neutral grip d-handle. i never thought of that. always did weird things with ropes for that. My wrists are gonna feel a lot better doing that plus its easier to get more rom that a bunch of rope
i think it is very good actually to anchor in training...for many reasons: 1-for beginners to make it easier to concentrate on the movement 2-for any person who has some issues in their shoulders like elder ppl 3-for anyone who wants to limit any loads that it take from the max out force he can produce And finally and the most important thing for ppl that panic when they heared about anchoring: if any exercise "is not functional" when we anchor it Then the Db bench press is not functional and you should maybe consider traing without the bench
I do them a little different, but which achieves the same result. Stand in the middle facing the rack and take the opposite cable in each hand and extend. This way the weight stack on the opposite side, provides the counter weight.
I've never understood the need for a preacher curl. Now I don't understand the need for a seatbelt triceps extension either. It's great to simultaneously increase my knowledge and my lack of understanding.
A preacher curl changes the resistance curve with more bias towards the lengthened position of the movement. Whether that matters, who knows, But it at least has some logical chain of reasoning about how it could benefit hypertrophy.
The preacher curl is known to cause more hypertrophy. Reasoning behind it: 1)Changing the resistance curve 2)Stability allows you to push harder 3)By keeping the arm locked in front, you are theoretically biasing the short head of the bicep more, which may serve a particular aesthetic goal
Recently I've been wondering what is the volume difference between each triceps section, long, lateral, medial etc. I'm getting huge lateral growth, alien.
If the anchor stops you from going forward, but the cheating usually happens by using other muscles to push back, then isn't the anchor useless? Genuinely curious. In your other variations, you anchor to the cable machine in the direction where you are extending, which is where the cheating and instability can happen, but this is the opposite.
the anchor would only be useless if you didn't keep forward pressure into it. the anchor resists the arm from getting pulled forward by the cable, lowering shoulder forces, and proportionately raising the load on the triceps in this case. pulling back away from the anchor might mean you're "cheating" with lats, rear delts, etc, but it also might just mean that output through the triceps is limited by the shoulder's need to manage upper arm position.
@@vamsigadu9856There's a form to do your skullcrusher that gives the long head more leverage. You basically keep the elbows further back than your shoulders rather than keeping them both stacked vertically And then you just move your forearms and forearms only, no movement of the elbows
Why would we expect this technique to matter? If it's not stabilized to that extent, we're still going to be able to bring the triceps as close to, or beyond, failure as we want. We're not going to fail at the part of the movement that requires us to stabilize the shoulder girdle. What's the principle here that would suggest this version benefits triceps hypertrophy? I'm not expecting a study because they're pretty rare in the context of exercise selection or technique. I just don't get what mechanistic speculation would apply here.
He just brushes it over with "Think about how much a shoulder extensor muscle the long head is and if none of that matter, it is totally fine". In other words he have absolutely no explanation for it at all. What secrets have he discovered that tells us that the shoulder extending function of the long head is just minor and doesn't matter, besides "If none of that matter, it is fine"? Just totally mindless! What IS known is that the long head differs from the other triceps heads in the way that it also IS acting as a shoulder extensor muscle in addition to elbow extensor. It works both when in the extended (over the head) posittion and in the contracted (As here) when it is down and behind the back. Since most of us already are doing exercises where we are using the elbow extensor (lots of presses, pushdowns etc) then you don't need another exercise where you remove the part where the shoulder extensor for the long head does its job the best. The question is if the contracted position is effective at all for it too. New studies show that the extended part of an exercise is more important than the contracted if you do partial reps for the different ranges. I think that you should do the opposite, if you are gonna do this exercise at all: Just straight arms with two ropes attached so that you can get as far behind the body as possible. You already have the other heads covered by other exercises and you SHOULD already do some kind of variation of the pullover or some kind of rope/bar pulldown with straight arms to get the triceps extended position covered. If you should do this exercise at all! I think the overhead/behind head work you do for the long head in the extended position should be fine! Adding more elbow extension to an already really pushed to the limit elbow for most people doesn't lead to anything positive! I mean take a look at old-time bodybuilders (pre the steroid era). People like Steve Reeves did a lot of pullovers (Which engages the long head a lot) AND behind the neck triceps extensions with a dumbbell. No wonder he had great triceps flaring out in that over the head straight arm pose! (And overall, for the time, big arm volume.)
@@Magnus_LoovIf you're taking the "emphasize the lengthened portion of the movement" perspective, then you'd do overhead triceps isolations of whatever kind for more stretch on the long head, no? You can also get some shoulder extension that way with some isolations (e.g., DB "skullovers"), but who knows if that matters.
@@danauerbach9081 you read my long post, that is exactly what I wrote, among other things. TLDR: I think that for the contracted variation like shown in this video you could just as well concentrate to emphasize the long heads shoulder involvement by doing the movement with just straight arms. You get plenty of exercises where the elbows are involved (all presses/pushes. Triceps pushdowns etc.). If doing it at all, that is. (Plus : The angle where the tension is highest for the contracted version matters. You are better off choosing the right combo of ropes (for length) and the way you lean into the movement for a max effect)
@danauerbach9081 - agreed that we'd still be able to take the triceps to failure, but my claim isn't that we wouldn't be able to do that or grow just as much with other methods, it's that the anchoring provides an ability to increase the specificity of that stimulus and the ease with which one acquires it. why this matters: -Maximize forces loading the joint(s) we are trying to train -Minimize forces loading the joint(s) we are not trying to train -Maximize contraction in the target tissues as a consequence of this -Minimize undesired fatigue in the non-target tissues -Maximize the ease of skill acquisition due to the repeatability and standardization of reps -Maximize the safety within a given exercise because of rep consistency (no accidental force redistribution to non-target joints) -Maximize the safety within a given exercise because of ease of reaching muscular failure without compensation (as a consequence of the above) -More precision in volume management and thus allocation of volume and recoverability
@@Magnus_Loov i'm not even really sure what you're responding to in the original comment. would you rather i'd have taken the time to explain something like: the long head of triceps plays a minimal role in the creation of a shoulder extension moment, compared to the rear delts, teres major, and lats, primarily due to its fiber orientation relative to the humerus and glenohumeral joint. more specifically, when the long head of triceps contracts, its translatory component of contraction is far greater than its rotational component, meaning that far more of its joint torque at the GH joint contributes to superior translation of the humeral head and adduction of the GH than than it does extension of the GH. this is especially true in anatomical position. in shoulder hyperextension, the long head of triceps technically creates a shoulder flexion moment, due to the then posterior position of the humerus relative to the infraglenoid tubercle. would that be helpful to people here on youtube who are looking for simpler explanations? or would it be more helpful to say what i said?
I’m sorry but trying to convince me that you’ll need to be anchoring your arm when doing 1 arm extensions with 20 pounds just seems a bit uncalled for to say the least. Come back to me if you’re giving me advice on how to create more stability when trying to triceps pushdown 90lbs+, but this gimmicky B S is just getting out of hand atp. Nobody needs external support when handling weights that low.
@@davefabian2942 preacher curls/benches actually enable me to challenge my muscle in a lengthened position without needlessly needing to stabilise the weight with my front delts if I were to do the same motion standing. The comparison is more than lacking bc the weight in a one arm triceps pushdown actually pulls the arm upwards, so the stabilisation requirements are minuscule.
I love this setup for 2 purposes: it standardizes my triceps extensions, and it’s also great for self-administration of intravenous injections.
My question here is:
Since I have been focusing on getting a greater stimulus on the longer part of the muscle, how could we make this exercise more stable using a stretch mediated hypertrophy approach?
Don't know if my wording is correct here but I think you know what I mean.
I have been feeling a much greater result when I do all of my exercises coming out of the greates stretch.
Thanks man, you have already changed many of my exercises & I have been having really good results with them.
Much Love, Karsten 🙏🏼🥰
Ben, great insight. I might have a more practical way to decrease that shoulder moment, which is bending over just like you're gonna do a kickback but you leave the cabe pulley right above your shoulder. That way you have a big stretch, the force curve has its peak at the highest stretch and at the same time you have a minimal shloulder moment. Whaddayathink?
yes, that's a great option as well! i usually include that as a stretched variant after i hit a more short variant.
Great idea Ben!
Nice work! 🙌
I don’t have a seatbelt, but I do have an airbag. Could that work?
Love the second one when at the gym. Will try the first at home 😉
Aren't overhead extensions better for the long head?
They are.
@vamsigadu9856 Then why should I ever do regular ones like in this video?
Compared to normal extensions no, they are not better
@@gautamrawat2805 Doesn't the stretch matter?
@@overtonpendulum2071 there are only some muscles which get benefits from Stretch mediate hypertrophy but triceps aren't one of them get most result in shortened position.
Seated push downs on a incline bench are the way to go. Great stability and you can go heavy!
def gonna use that neutral grip d-handle. i never thought of that. always did weird things with ropes for that. My wrists are gonna feel a lot better doing that plus its easier to get more rom that a bunch of rope
i think it is very good actually to anchor in training...for many reasons:
1-for beginners to make it easier to concentrate on the movement
2-for any person who has some issues in their shoulders like elder ppl
3-for anyone who wants to limit any loads that it take from the max out force he can produce
And finally and the most important thing for ppl that panic when they heared about anchoring:
if any exercise "is not functional" when we anchor it
Then the Db bench press is not functional and you should maybe consider traing without the bench
I do them a little different, but which achieves the same result. Stand in the middle facing the rack and take the opposite cable in each hand and extend. This way the weight stack on the opposite side, provides the counter weight.
This is great 👍. Looking forward to giving it a go!
I've never understood the need for a preacher curl. Now I don't understand the need for a seatbelt triceps extension either. It's great to simultaneously increase my knowledge and my lack of understanding.
A preacher curl changes the resistance curve with more bias towards the lengthened position of the movement. Whether that matters, who knows, But it at least has some logical chain of reasoning about how it could benefit hypertrophy.
The preacher curl is known to cause more hypertrophy.
Reasoning behind it:
1)Changing the resistance curve
2)Stability allows you to push harder
3)By keeping the arm locked in front, you are theoretically biasing the short head of the bicep more, which may serve a particular aesthetic goal
Just picked up your library 😊. Great deal.
thanks for your support! hope you enjoy! and feel free to submit a request when you have one :)
The seatbelt returns!
Recently I've been wondering what is the volume difference between each triceps section, long, lateral, medial etc.
I'm getting huge lateral growth, alien.
You can do a two armed pulldown using an arm blaster to do something very similar.
Would the second exercise be lateral and medial head dominant ? Or still long head ?
all heads in both variants!
@The_Modern_Meathead oh that's good to know , thanks for the reply ben .
If the anchor stops you from going forward, but the cheating usually happens by using other muscles to push back, then isn't the anchor useless? Genuinely curious. In your other variations, you anchor to the cable machine in the direction where you are extending, which is where the cheating and instability can happen, but this is the opposite.
the anchor would only be useless if you didn't keep forward pressure into it. the anchor resists the arm from getting pulled forward by the cable, lowering shoulder forces, and proportionately raising the load on the triceps in this case. pulling back away from the anchor might mean you're "cheating" with lats, rear delts, etc, but it also might just mean that output through the triceps is limited by the shoulder's need to manage upper arm position.
Wear the arm blaster on your back.
The discomfort that the "seatbelt" seems like it puts on the inside of my elbow makes this exercise something that isn't worth it.
Just do your JM Presses, skullcrushers, pushdowns and overhead extensions
The second one is just a pushdown with good modification.
@@vamsigadu9856There's a form to do your skullcrusher that gives the long head more leverage.
You basically keep the elbows further back than your shoulders rather than keeping them both stacked vertically
And then you just move your forearms and forearms only, no movement of the elbows
Why would we expect this technique to matter? If it's not stabilized to that extent, we're still going to be able to bring the triceps as close to, or beyond, failure as we want. We're not going to fail at the part of the movement that requires us to stabilize the shoulder girdle. What's the principle here that would suggest this version benefits triceps hypertrophy? I'm not expecting a study because they're pretty rare in the context of exercise selection or technique. I just don't get what mechanistic speculation would apply here.
He just brushes it over with "Think about how much a shoulder extensor muscle the long head is and if none of that matter, it is totally fine".
In other words he have absolutely no explanation for it at all. What secrets have he discovered that tells us that the shoulder extending function of the long head is just minor and doesn't matter, besides "If none of that matter, it is fine"? Just totally mindless!
What IS known is that the long head differs from the other triceps heads in the way that it also IS acting as a shoulder extensor muscle in addition to elbow extensor.
It works both when in the extended (over the head) posittion and in the contracted (As here) when it is down and behind the back.
Since most of us already are doing exercises where we are using the elbow extensor (lots of presses, pushdowns etc) then you don't need another exercise where you remove the part where the shoulder extensor for the long head does its job the best.
The question is if the contracted position is effective at all for it too. New studies show that the extended part of an exercise is more important than the contracted if you do partial reps for the different ranges.
I think that you should do the opposite, if you are gonna do this exercise at all: Just straight arms with two ropes attached so that you can get as far behind the body as possible.
You already have the other heads covered by other exercises and you SHOULD already do some kind of variation of the pullover or some kind of rope/bar pulldown with straight arms to get the triceps extended position covered.
If you should do this exercise at all! I think the overhead/behind head work you do for the long head in the extended position should be fine!
Adding more elbow extension to an already really pushed to the limit elbow for most people doesn't lead to anything positive!
I mean take a look at old-time bodybuilders (pre the steroid era). People like Steve Reeves did a lot of pullovers (Which engages the long head a lot) AND behind the neck triceps extensions with a dumbbell. No wonder he had great triceps flaring out in that over the head straight arm pose! (And overall, for the time, big arm volume.)
@@Magnus_LoovIf you're taking the "emphasize the lengthened portion of the movement" perspective, then you'd do overhead triceps isolations of whatever kind for more stretch on the long head, no? You can also get some shoulder extension that way with some isolations (e.g., DB "skullovers"), but who knows if that matters.
@@danauerbach9081 you read my long post, that is exactly what I wrote, among other things.
TLDR:
I think that for the contracted variation like shown in this video you could just as well concentrate to emphasize the long heads shoulder involvement by doing the movement with just straight arms.
You get plenty of exercises where the elbows are involved (all presses/pushes. Triceps pushdowns etc.).
If doing it at all, that is.
(Plus : The angle where the tension is highest for the contracted version matters. You are better off choosing the right combo of ropes (for length) and the way you lean into the movement for a max effect)
@danauerbach9081 - agreed that we'd still be able to take the triceps to failure, but my claim isn't that we wouldn't be able to do that or grow just as much with other methods, it's that the anchoring provides an ability to increase the specificity of that stimulus and the ease with which one acquires it. why this matters:
-Maximize forces loading the joint(s) we are trying to train
-Minimize forces loading the joint(s) we are not trying to train
-Maximize contraction in the target tissues as a consequence of this
-Minimize undesired fatigue in the non-target tissues
-Maximize the ease of skill acquisition due to the repeatability and standardization of reps
-Maximize the safety within a given exercise because of rep consistency (no accidental force redistribution to non-target joints)
-Maximize the safety within a given exercise because of ease of reaching muscular failure without compensation (as a consequence of the above)
-More precision in volume management and thus allocation of volume and recoverability
@@Magnus_Loov i'm not even really sure what you're responding to in the original comment. would you rather i'd have taken the time to explain something like: the long head of triceps plays a minimal role in the creation of a shoulder extension moment, compared to the rear delts, teres major, and lats, primarily due to its fiber orientation relative to the humerus and glenohumeral joint. more specifically, when the long head of triceps contracts, its translatory component of contraction is far greater than its rotational component, meaning that far more of its joint torque at the GH joint contributes to superior translation of the humeral head and adduction of the GH than than it does extension of the GH. this is especially true in anatomical position. in shoulder hyperextension, the long head of triceps technically creates a shoulder flexion moment, due to the then posterior position of the humerus relative to the infraglenoid tubercle. would that be helpful to people here on youtube who are looking for simpler explanations? or would it be more helpful to say what i said?
💀
I’m sorry but trying to convince me that you’ll need to be anchoring your arm when doing 1 arm extensions with 20 pounds just seems a bit uncalled for to say the least. Come back to me if you’re giving me advice on how to create more stability when trying to triceps pushdown 90lbs+, but this gimmicky B S is just getting out of hand atp. Nobody needs external support when handling weights that low.
So you don’t use preacher curls ?
Trust me when you are more stable it feels smoother and the contraction feels more stronger. Its worth it.
@@davefabian2942 preacher curls/benches actually allow me to challenge the muscle at a different resistance profile, so the comparison makes no sense.
@@davefabian2942 preacher curls/benches actually enable me to challenge my muscle in a lengthened position without needlessly needing to stabilise the weight with my front delts if I were to do the same motion standing. The comparison is more than lacking bc the weight in a one arm triceps pushdown actually pulls the arm upwards, so the stabilisation requirements are minuscule.
Who cares, just don’t do it