I played on a private server that was in patch 3.3.5 for about 3 years. You instantly had full season 8 gear, and all the other gear you wanted. All there was to do there was BG, arena, and duel. In your achievements tab, you can check your duel wins and losses. This rogue had over 11k wins, and something like 15 losses. He mentioned that he had only really lost like 5, and the remaining 10 were from things happening like falling through the map/disconnecting. He would literally beat anyone over and over and most of the time it wasn't even close. Even the people who beat him, beat him like once and lost probably hundreds. Rogue is seriously BIS 1v1, at least in 3.3.5 with all BIS gear.
Yeah I think they are amazing which if you look down in the comment section their is one "1v1 duel tourney champion" who thinks rogues are one of the worst duelers. I do think they are also a little unforgiving though and can lose just to some RNG unless you are a god rogue like that one you found which is why I put them just slightly under the top
Very nice video, lot of tips that is always good to hear :) As Unholy i was afraid about this preg spec. It seems preg will be very present in 2s with an enhanced
For sure. Preg/enhance is very potent and I hopefully will be able to get a guide out in a few weeks on it. It has a very unique playstyle too. They lack MS yet their damage is very high and a reliable cc chain every minute.
Feral druids are fairly easy versus Warlocks if you start with voidwalker - You're usually able to get them out of stealth if you play cheesy but also the double shield is usually enough to get you through their fear immune.
@@apexanalysis8348 so what the hell is paladin doing in s+? He cant beat any of casters without pillar. Feral shits them too. Hunters 50/50. Fury in same tier with affli? Frost mage can beat any spec in game in s8
I agreed with you on almost every spec on the list. I don't think you play a mage though with how you talked about all 3 of their specs. Imo all 3 in a duel scenario are S. Fire might even be the best of the 3 but frost and arcane are extremely strong as well into almost all matchups except warlock(+feral for frost). Fire disrupts the entire duel while getting pyro procs instant dmg + disarms & stuns while you sit on targets face (maybe the best caster into hunter). Arcane hits the hardest + slow being extremely big vs every single class it slows attack speed and cast speed and movement can kite for days and return hit very hard I prefer the Arc/frost variant with icy veins and shatter. Frost dominates everything except lock / feral and a good hunter/spriest. I've played every class and every spec to 2k at least, even the weird ones, and am a duel addict. All 3 mage specs should be ahead of arms and everything else behind it. Just my opinion :) commenting for the algo 👍
I do play a mage and in particular it was my dueling spec of choice in the original wrath. I had something like 800 wins and 200 losses (all legit) where I'd only duel people that gave me a challenge. Frost mage definitely doesn't dominate dk's it can rot so easily just to the dots and get soloed by the gargoyle. And your saying it dominates except affliction, destro, demo, feral, hunter, shadow so by that it's ranked correctly or at least very close. Arcane could be better than I'm giving it credit (I don't play arcane much myself) but I never have once dueled them on many of my different specs/classes and thought wow they are amazing. Anyway, appreciate the feedback everyone's opinion is going to be a bit different regardless - especially based on whether they played a lot recently or if they're recalling 2008 memories.
@@apexanalysis8348 It was my dueling class of original wrath as well lol I was very similar tracking duel win loss ratio with similar results or better it was a big hobby of mine lol. Spriest I knew used to duel people for 10k outside of org and he was the only person i'd trade wins with i beat everyone else on the server but ppl r better now. I used to duel naked as frost in the bloodsail buccaneer white gear lol. Yes Frost is near where it should be. Arcane was brought to world tournament every year for wotlk its a good spec overall its just underplayed cause its all or nothing gotta play deftly for it to work but it has surprisingly good matchups. Fire is super dominant in my experience for 1vX or duels. I had 4 80s in 2008 but played a lot on warmane over the years dueling and original AT with all these specs. I really enjoy your content keep it up. Edit: Oh, yeah and about DKs, I honestly just outrange garg and cc/kill if I cant. Duel and stand max distance from flag to start so you can move full distance kite. I also jump warrior charge mounted and other lame things like that lol. I start with silence & DK normally die during 2nd or at most 3rd silence cd. I'm referencing smourne end game as well. I main shadowpriest and also never lose to Smourne UH DK which is supposed to counter spriest. Ret smourne steal wins off me more often than DKs (on priest).
Ahh well there are a lot of variables with duels, I always assume the melee(if it's not a stealther) is standing right on you on their mount at the beginning of the duel. I don't think UH dk counters sp but I do think it has a favorable matchup. I rarely lose on my dk to as high as 2600 experience'd BiS shadow priests in open dueling areas. Maybe if los is taken into account it skews it. Ty for supporting the channel! After reading through all of the dueling comments in here there was such a massive amount of misinformation. It will be fun when the real thing is here soon!
@Dreamonology just about all of that is incorrect. Fire is extremely disruptive can win most duels at full hp even vs counters like DK. Frost is amazing ofc but burst is about half of what Fire puts out. I play all 3 specs at 2k. Fire and arcane are just comp dependent.
Just curious what are your main classes? Highest rating on each class/spec? I've been watching your wrath videos for a while and have enjoyed them but I couldn't find any information on your experience.
I talk about them in my first wow video back in May if your curious. Glad you enjoy them Gordon:) But in particular my mains are pretty much DK/Ele/Ret. Than warrior, hunter, rogue, mage, then my least played would be lock, priest, druid - sorta in that order
IMO Pallies are horrendous versus casters, especially Preg, Preg can't beat casters, you do have a chance with Ret, but you need specific items and have to change your trinkets and some main pieces, when it comes to dueling frost mages. But Preg easily claps all melee no dif, goes for Ret, very, very easy against melees.
Still very hard to keep Cc on the warlock while your trying to kill a felhunter with devour magic self dispel. But if they somehow can get some winter's chill stacks on you that can definitely lead to the pet dying!
@@apexanalysis8348 I've had to go as far as making a cancel nether protect aura macro from getting passed the insane spell steal! but I will admit it isn't exactly hard vs equally geared mages
Hey Apex, i wanna go Hpal in WOTLK! What profs u advice? JC+BS or JC+ENG maybe do a vid per class or maybe i missed and u allready have? All i see is a lot of discussion between BS and Eng, jc seems a no brainer.
JC is definitely your best option and then for the 2nd I'd either do Tailoring (for the cape enchant, both mana and spellpower options) as you don't need spell penetration enchant to cape as a holy pally. Otherwise BS is your next best option which gets stronger later when epic gems come in!
Affli being so low.... So with my old guild on warmane we had a Christmas event, one of them was raid boss Guild master. Basically the GM with every buff in the game. He was a BIS affli with full wrathful, i was a 5.5 k GS DK with relentless and shadow's edge and nothing but self buffs, he didn't even come close even taking half my health from me. With soulstone revive and then he was in a party with a druid for another revive.
@@apexanalysis8348 we did it in the outland mountain arena, first it was an every man for himself battle royale between 20 people, i won bcs i had like 900 resil and other people just had a trink as pvp gear. The winner faced the guild master, but the rules where so he had evey buff in the game. I could use only class buffs, basically horn and bone shield.
Thanks for this, Apex. I wanted your thoughts on my situation. An irl friend is rolling HPALLY and I saw your videos re 2v2, 3v3, easy arena comps, and class effectiveness for no PVE gear (I hate raiding!). I was originally going to roll a mage, but with my friend rolling hpal and your videos, DK would be a better fit. As an alternative I thought warrior, but again, I saw your videos and saw that although Warr+Hpal is better than DK+Hpal, DK requires significantly less PVE gear, which I prefer. Do you think this is a good thought process? Also, in your Warrior How To ZUG Guide video, I get the feeling you suggest JC+BS over JC+Eng. In the DK video you suggest JC+Eng to slightly edge over BS. Is there a specific reason the decision is different? Third, what level do the professions have to be to reap the rewards? 400? or 375? Lastly, do you have a guide in the works that touches on how to play a DK? I saw your Wrath Classic Unholy DK PvP Guide, but that doesn't really touch on how to play a DK (rotation, etc). If you have any tips, that would help!
Hey Ben, are you saying you prefer DK's more or simply that they have less gear demands? If it's both then I would suggest playing DK no question - then you can also play PHD and TSG in 3s which are both extremely strong and fun. But if you're better with warrior you can still do good assuming you can spend some gold on BoE's and maybe get a pve weapon from a GDKP or something. But if that isn't an option just do DK. JC/BS or JC/Engi is bis for both really. It's just that BS is weaker in early Wrath since it has the blue gems. Also you don't care about ARP gems as DK but having that option as warrior is nice which is why I think jc/bs is better for warrior! And then I don't recall all the specific levels to get the prof perks but Blacksmithing sockets were 400 skill level which saves a lot of gold. JC might be a bit higher - again I don't recall but it's whenever you can create the dragon's eye cuts. I probably will make a DK guide aimed more towards new DK players closer to release. But the nice thing with DK is once you learn how to manage your runes/runic power dumps and pet micro. You really can just do your own thing and tunnel people into the ground while your immune to many things.
@@apexanalysis8348 Thank you so much for responding. I really do appreciate it! To be honest, I have never played DK. I did play warrior, but it felt very...lackluster since it was all physical damage. My main in retail (back when it was wrath retail) was a mage, so I think I need some magic in my life, haha. I like having versatility in the class and being somewhat self-sufficient. Although my friend is playing hpal, I do not want to have to rely on him / other healers to have a good time. So I guess I do prefer it and I'm going for a less(er) pve gear demanding class. Re JC/BS or JC/Engi, it sounds like (as you said) since DK's don't care about ARP gems, Engi might edge out even more! Regardless I will do JC...I'm waiting and seeing if Blizz somehow nerfs Engi. Are there no BoP BS weapons (like stormherald or maw) that DK PvE'rs will want to use? Really looking forward to your DK guide for newer players. Until then, do you have a guide (etiher here or on warmane) that you recommend to learn for the time being? I really know little about how to "manage your runes/runic power dumps and pet micro". Thanks again!
There are no blacksmithing weapons really to note, other than just hitting level 80 if you want a quick weapon, but it's far from BIS and it's boe. Hmm I have never looked at a new dk player guide, but I suggest just waiting for mine as I will make it before wrath comes out:)
@@apexanalysis8348 Thank you Apex! Do you mind touching on why someone should go warrior vs DK and vice versa? I got a comprehensive answer from watching all of your videos, but maybe a short paragraph on the different playstyles would shed some more light. THanks again!
At the beginner level, you will feel that the rogue is strong. That's because it's beginner level In the wotlk 1v1 match between pros, the weakest is the sub rogue.
@@PlugWoW I won the Korean tournament I've been playing wotlk pvp for 5 years Rogue is too ill-balanced in Wotlk Rogue has to give up resilience setting in order to beat other classes in professional competitions Other classes have resilience settings So Rogue can never beat other classes The only thing a thief can win is Hunter And There is 1v1 Arena in Wowcircle server in Russia, where Rogue has never been on the top list
@@SpeeksInCursive Feral the hardest class to play in WotLK. It's not forgiving. If you don't know the class you'll wonder why it's crap but if you're great it's god tier. Forgiving would be plate DPS.
Who is better with plate wearers? Lock, shadow priest or rogue? Wanna to choose pvp main, trying to figure out who have better chances to pvp unholy/other plate wearers, bks there is tons on them
I would say none of the above but if I was forced to pick one it would probably be rogue particularly with ret/preg and SP/lock particularly with UNH dk. But none of those synergize amazingly
I don't quite agree with affliction, I was affliction in WOTLK and the only specs which gave me a hard time were DKs and hunters... I would DESTROY pallies / mages / shamans...
Affliction _definitely_ destroys mages and ele shamans, but enhance and geared ret pallies can just chop you down before your dots get a chance to rot - assuming you can't just port behind a pillar
yo bro i dont rly agree on Ele man i think with the right gears they can do well in world pvp and dueling and they are extremly tanky i still agree on Ele need a good amount of gears to do well
I reckon it couldve been higher too. They're not 1v1 gods but they do pretty well in the right hands. Shadow, Rogue, Feral, and Hunter are the only ones that are hard to play against.
I dont find Paladins topping 1v1 because every single caster will win you if you are equally geared and skilled. They are good against Melee classes, but hey its not enough for top classes un my opinion. B - list
Yeah I think a lot of average/mediocre ret/preg paladins feel that way or people who play against bad/average ones. I crush mages by cheesing them with early bubble and pve gear. Warlocks without having los to abuse port and glyph of turn evil allows me to insta cc felhunter/succubus and then just chop up the lock with trinket first cc, freedom SF, and bubble next big CC while also dispelling immolates. SP is the hardest caster to deal with but you can occasionally win with the right RNG and preventing MD on your bubble with hoj/repent/arcane torrent if you have.
@@apexanalysis8348 I'm sorry but if you are beating Frost Mages as a Ret you are playing against someone who does not have a functioning brain. Any competent Frost Mage will completely embarrass a Ret. How? Let's see... Duel starts with Mage poly and stealing your buffs, so you have no buffs. Then they instantly get a huge slow on you because 60%+ slow from range is a thing blizzard decided. Oh, you decide to hand of freedom? Nope, that's stolen too, and you are slow again. So now what do you do? Are you close enough to cast repentance to slow the gap? Go ahead, they trinket it. Bad move? Nah, because if you stun they can just blink. So let's say you decide against that and early bubble. By the time you even get near them, your bubble is basically done. Worst case scenario for the mage just ice blocks your bubble. So far you have used hand of freedom, bubble, and the mage should still have full health. Now you have basically nothing. The mage then frost novas when you get close. Aha, now is your chance to hand of freedom again. Aaaaand it's gone. Now the mage can cast ANOTHER nova with his pet. He is now free to start shattering and doing whatever he wants. At the very best, you can trinket the stun, but you are still permaslowed and will never, EVER catch him. Oh, you get close enough and try to wings 1 shot? That's gone too, another buff not only purged but TAKEN by the mage. The match up is incredibly 1 sided. I would love to watch you play against these mages.
@@Brian-lc1zt If the ret knows what he s doing, he cannot lose to Frost mage. Retri pala is the king of 1v1, every single 1v1 tournament on warmane was won by retri pala
I think fire mage can do better and is very strong vs frost and destro also arcane can play well long range with slow+ (good frost mage can win vs destro more often but feral druid is the worst enemy
Fire might be able to do better in some matchups over frost. But destro is a hard counter to frost mage in particular. The destro has to be very bad to lose.
you are insane to not put mage into number 1 spot. It is overall most overpowered, universal class in the wotlk. While it is true you might struggle with some match ups like destro/hunter/UH DK (only real threats to frost mage) you should still beat destro. Nether protection is spell steal - so he is basically giving you the buff, 1 fake cast and once his interrupt is gone you can pop off on him and mage free cast over the period of lets say 5 seconds is higher than locks initial burst with chaos (which you will be blocking anyway). So your explanation is completely wrong, sorry bud. Even considering that warrior can touch a mage in wotlk is again wrong. That is not even close. It is a joke for mage to shit on warrior still in wotlk. DK and Hunter is other story. As mage if its god vs god you should lose in open field but you can make it close at least. In arena its different story and you shit on them.
@@apexanalysis8348 Let me correct myself because I agree that maybe I did not make it clear enough. Mage should be somewhere top dog, not bellow. What is a ret doing there? lmao..... Sp loses to feral, war, dk, mage, any rogue - again, what is it doing there?:))
SP imo has a very close mu with mage, it does lose to DK usually, I think it has an edge against warrior and if the warrior isn't super geared they have a big edge against warrior(most SP's don't spam dp enough and they should), feral I think has a close MU as well to shadow I'd even give a slight edge to shadow there too regardless of berserk fear immunity. And then versus rogue if the priest is stacking max resil and using bauble + timing it with wound poison I think they have the edge too. So out of all of those I think just dk is a losing MU then 2 of those about even and 2 the sp is slightly favored
@@Nyzmoe SP loses. To dk? Lmao:)))) shadow priest cannot lose to dk if he plays well. Same for Frost mage vs any warlock. If the Frost mage does the pet kiting strat, he cannot lose. You cannot do anything as the warlock
@@Zeraloptf are you yappin about spriest wins against DK, 1 pull in and you are screwed only thing that keeps spriest alive is distance, any class that has range or any melee class that can close distance quickly absolutely dominates spriest.
Ret S tier for 1v1?!? Did you ever play it? No, really do you every play it? I love ret and it awlays was the 'fun' alt for me but he loses to most casters + very very hard time with the most melees
@@apexanalysis8348 Preg gets murdered by casters the same way affliction gets murdered by melee but you ranked them 3 tiers higher. Also you said ferals run down boomkins, thats not even close to true. Boomkins can CC and heal through the bezerk, once its over the boomkin easily wins.
@@apexanalysis8348 check swifty videos nad tons of xp in private servers. try to kill a ret paladin or preg paladin or even a prot paladins. u could at least rogue but if they play well you just never gonna kill it. the amount of ways to troll a warrior are just sad tbh. they are good but if u have the right healer in ur pocket
@@apexanalysis8348 I’m think that hybrid dk are overpowered for 1v1 pvp. But I’m also not a top tier player. Ty for response!!! Have a good day bro. As for me, I’m only play warrior class cuz I’m loving it!!))) and I’m don’t give a Fuck who is the S tier)))) I’m also believe that on 80s war must became stronger!!! Peace bro!!🙌
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
Win a free Murloco's Taco with your next video when you like and subscribe today!
I played on a private server that was in patch 3.3.5 for about 3 years. You instantly had full season 8 gear, and all the other gear you wanted. All there was to do there was BG, arena, and duel. In your achievements tab, you can check your duel wins and losses. This rogue had over 11k wins, and something like 15 losses. He mentioned that he had only really lost like 5, and the remaining 10 were from things happening like falling through the map/disconnecting. He would literally beat anyone over and over and most of the time it wasn't even close. Even the people who beat him, beat him like once and lost probably hundreds. Rogue is seriously BIS 1v1, at least in 3.3.5 with all BIS gear.
Yeah I think they are amazing which if you look down in the comment section their is one "1v1 duel tourney champion" who thinks rogues are one of the worst duelers. I do think they are also a little unforgiving though and can lose just to some RNG unless you are a god rogue like that one you found which is why I put them just slightly under the top
Great video !!
Another good topic and video from apex. Keep it up man you are doing awesome. When are you shipping your spri and mage videos?
Whenever my main arena partner's hand heals up! Injuries suckkkk
Very nice video, lot of tips that is always good to hear :) As Unholy i was afraid about this preg spec. It seems preg will be very present in 2s with an enhanced
Played against a few on warmane. They hit hard.
For sure. Preg/enhance is very potent and I hopefully will be able to get a guide out in a few weeks on it. It has a very unique playstyle too. They lack MS yet their damage is very high and a reliable cc chain every minute.
@@apexanalysis8348 by the way, are you not afraid DK will not be this strong at early because of all these nerf ?
Feral druids are fairly easy versus Warlocks if you start with voidwalker - You're usually able to get them out of stealth if you play cheesy but also the double shield is usually enough to get you through their fear immune.
Well they should be getting the opener if they are taking the duel seriously.
@@Dreamonology dunno what to tell you bud, you must be doing it wrong lol
Mate i havent watched the vid, just came for the final list. Did u make the tier list for dueling zones WITH or WITHOUT pillars?
With NO LOS. I mention that early on in the video. Also using the S8 dueling meta
@@apexanalysis8348 so what the hell is paladin doing in s+? He cant beat any of casters without pillar. Feral shits them too. Hunters 50/50. Fury in same tier with affli? Frost mage can beat any spec in game in s8
@@messinyo1055 Ya, pillar changes the list completely.
I agreed with you on almost every spec on the list. I don't think you play a mage though with how you talked about all 3 of their specs. Imo all 3 in a duel scenario are S. Fire might even be the best of the 3 but frost and arcane are extremely strong as well into almost all matchups except warlock(+feral for frost). Fire disrupts the entire duel while getting pyro procs instant dmg + disarms & stuns while you sit on targets face (maybe the best caster into hunter). Arcane hits the hardest + slow being extremely big vs every single class it slows attack speed and cast speed and movement can kite for days and return hit very hard I prefer the Arc/frost variant with icy veins and shatter. Frost dominates everything except lock / feral and a good hunter/spriest. I've played every class and every spec to 2k at least, even the weird ones, and am a duel addict. All 3 mage specs should be ahead of arms and everything else behind it. Just my opinion :) commenting for the algo 👍
I do play a mage and in particular it was my dueling spec of choice in the original wrath. I had something like 800 wins and 200 losses (all legit) where I'd only duel people that gave me a challenge. Frost mage definitely doesn't dominate dk's it can rot so easily just to the dots and get soloed by the gargoyle. And your saying it dominates except affliction, destro, demo, feral, hunter, shadow so by that it's ranked correctly or at least very close. Arcane could be better than I'm giving it credit (I don't play arcane much myself) but I never have once dueled them on many of my different specs/classes and thought wow they are amazing. Anyway, appreciate the feedback everyone's opinion is going to be a bit different regardless - especially based on whether they played a lot recently or if they're recalling 2008 memories.
@@apexanalysis8348 It was my dueling class of original wrath as well lol I was very similar tracking duel win loss ratio with similar results or better it was a big hobby of mine lol. Spriest I knew used to duel people for 10k outside of org and he was the only person i'd trade wins with i beat everyone else on the server but ppl r better now. I used to duel naked as frost in the bloodsail buccaneer white gear lol. Yes Frost is near where it should be. Arcane was brought to world tournament every year for wotlk its a good spec overall its just underplayed cause its all or nothing gotta play deftly for it to work but it has surprisingly good matchups. Fire is super dominant in my experience for 1vX or duels. I had 4 80s in 2008 but played a lot on warmane over the years dueling and original AT with all these specs. I really enjoy your content keep it up.
Edit: Oh, yeah and about DKs, I honestly just outrange garg and cc/kill if I cant. Duel and stand max distance from flag to start so you can move full distance kite. I also jump warrior charge mounted and other lame things like that lol. I start with silence & DK normally die during 2nd or at most 3rd silence cd. I'm referencing smourne end game as well. I main shadowpriest and also never lose to Smourne UH DK which is supposed to counter spriest. Ret smourne steal wins off me more often than DKs (on priest).
Ahh well there are a lot of variables with duels, I always assume the melee(if it's not a stealther) is standing right on you on their mount at the beginning of the duel. I don't think UH dk counters sp but I do think it has a favorable matchup. I rarely lose on my dk to as high as 2600 experience'd BiS shadow priests in open dueling areas. Maybe if los is taken into account it skews it. Ty for supporting the channel! After reading through all of the dueling comments in here there was such a massive amount of misinformation. It will be fun when the real thing is here soon!
@@apexanalysis8348 yeah my duels I'm referencing are no Los in sewers or outside org/sw.
Keep up the content 👌
@Dreamonology just about all of that is incorrect. Fire is extremely disruptive can win most duels at full hp even vs counters like DK. Frost is amazing ofc but burst is about half of what Fire puts out. I play all 3 specs at 2k. Fire and arcane are just comp dependent.
Lmfao PREGGO paladin, who tf thought that's a good and descriptive and not confusing at all abbrevation?
Just curious what are your main classes? Highest rating on each class/spec? I've been watching your wrath videos for a while and have enjoyed them but I couldn't find any information on your experience.
I talk about them in my first wow video back in May if your curious. Glad you enjoy them Gordon:) But in particular my mains are pretty much DK/Ele/Ret. Than warrior, hunter, rogue, mage, then my least played would be lock, priest, druid - sorta in that order
@@apexanalysis8348 Rating answer would be nice to gauge what level we can expect this info is relative to
IMO Pallies are horrendous versus casters, especially Preg, Preg can't beat casters, you do have a chance with Ret, but you need specific items and have to change your trinkets and some main pieces, when it comes to dueling frost mages. But Preg easily claps all melee no dif, goes for Ret, very, very easy against melees.
Also on mages vs warlocks, I've noticed many good mages will CC the life out of you while they kill pet - extremely frustrating to play against
Still very hard to keep Cc on the warlock while your trying to kill a felhunter with devour magic self dispel. But if they somehow can get some winter's chill stacks on you that can definitely lead to the pet dying!
@@apexanalysis8348 I've had to go as far as making a cancel nether protect aura macro from getting passed the insane spell steal! but I will admit it isn't exactly hard vs equally geared mages
Oh nice, I've never heard of anyone actually using that cancelaura - Interesting
its very rare situation, warlock DESTROY mages.
Hey Apex, i wanna go Hpal in WOTLK! What profs u advice? JC+BS or JC+ENG maybe do a vid per class or maybe i missed and u allready have?
All i see is a lot of discussion between BS and Eng, jc seems a no brainer.
JC is definitely your best option and then for the 2nd I'd either do Tailoring (for the cape enchant, both mana and spellpower options) as you don't need spell penetration enchant to cape as a holy pally. Otherwise BS is your next best option which gets stronger later when epic gems come in!
Affli being so low....
So with my old guild on warmane we had a Christmas event, one of them was raid boss Guild master. Basically the GM with every buff in the game.
He was a BIS affli with full wrathful, i was a 5.5 k GS DK with relentless and shadow's edge and nothing but self buffs, he didn't even come close even taking half my health from me. With soulstone revive and then he was in a party with a druid for another revive.
That's how important specs are! That's a really cool event to have I've never heard of something like that.
@@apexanalysis8348 we did it in the outland mountain arena, first it was an every man for himself battle royale between 20 people, i won bcs i had like 900 resil and other people just had a trink as pvp gear. The winner faced the guild master, but the rules where so he had evey buff in the game. I could use only class buffs, basically horn and bone shield.
Thanks for this, Apex.
I wanted your thoughts on my situation. An irl friend is rolling HPALLY and I saw your videos re 2v2, 3v3, easy arena comps, and class effectiveness for no PVE gear (I hate raiding!). I was originally going to roll a mage, but with my friend rolling hpal and your videos, DK would be a better fit. As an alternative I thought warrior, but again, I saw your videos and saw that although Warr+Hpal is better than DK+Hpal, DK requires significantly less PVE gear, which I prefer. Do you think this is a good thought process?
Also, in your Warrior How To ZUG Guide video, I get the feeling you suggest JC+BS over JC+Eng. In the DK video you suggest JC+Eng to slightly edge over BS. Is there a specific reason the decision is different?
Third, what level do the professions have to be to reap the rewards? 400? or 375?
Lastly, do you have a guide in the works that touches on how to play a DK? I saw your Wrath Classic Unholy DK PvP Guide, but that doesn't really touch on how to play a DK (rotation, etc). If you have any tips, that would help!
Hey Ben, are you saying you prefer DK's more or simply that they have less gear demands? If it's both then I would suggest playing DK no question - then you can also play PHD and TSG in 3s which are both extremely strong and fun. But if you're better with warrior you can still do good assuming you can spend some gold on BoE's and maybe get a pve weapon from a GDKP or something. But if that isn't an option just do DK. JC/BS or JC/Engi is bis for both really. It's just that BS is weaker in early Wrath since it has the blue gems. Also you don't care about ARP gems as DK but having that option as warrior is nice which is why I think jc/bs is better for warrior!
And then I don't recall all the specific levels to get the prof perks but Blacksmithing sockets were 400 skill level which saves a lot of gold. JC might be a bit higher - again I don't recall but it's whenever you can create the dragon's eye cuts.
I probably will make a DK guide aimed more towards new DK players closer to release. But the nice thing with DK is once you learn how to manage your runes/runic power dumps and pet micro. You really can just do your own thing and tunnel people into the ground while your immune to many things.
@@apexanalysis8348 Thank you so much for responding. I really do appreciate it!
To be honest, I have never played DK. I did play warrior, but it felt very...lackluster since it was all physical damage. My main in retail (back when it was wrath retail) was a mage, so I think I need some magic in my life, haha.
I like having versatility in the class and being somewhat self-sufficient. Although my friend is playing hpal, I do not want to have to rely on him / other healers to have a good time. So I guess I do prefer it and I'm going for a less(er) pve gear demanding class.
Re JC/BS or JC/Engi, it sounds like (as you said) since DK's don't care about ARP gems, Engi might edge out even more! Regardless I will do JC...I'm waiting and seeing if Blizz somehow nerfs Engi. Are there no BoP BS weapons (like stormherald or maw) that DK PvE'rs will want to use?
Really looking forward to your DK guide for newer players. Until then, do you have a guide (etiher here or on warmane) that you recommend to learn for the time being? I really know little about how to "manage your runes/runic power dumps and pet micro".
Thanks again!
There are no blacksmithing weapons really to note, other than just hitting level 80 if you want a quick weapon, but it's far from BIS and it's boe. Hmm I have never looked at a new dk player guide, but I suggest just waiting for mine as I will make it before wrath comes out:)
@@apexanalysis8348 Thank you Apex!
Do you mind touching on why someone should go warrior vs DK and vice versa? I got a comprehensive answer from watching all of your videos, but maybe a short paragraph on the different playstyles would shed some more light.
THanks again!
I am the 4 times winner of World of Warcraft 1V1 competition
Sub rogue in Wotlk is a 1v1 weakest class
At the beginner level, you will feel that the rogue is strong.
That's because it's beginner level
In the wotlk 1v1 match between pros, the weakest is the sub rogue.
What class did you win with and what do you think is best
what 1v1 tournament?
@@PlugWoW I won the Korean tournament
I've been playing wotlk pvp for 5 years
Rogue is too ill-balanced in Wotlk
Rogue has to give up resilience setting in order to beat other classes in professional competitions
Other classes have resilience settings
So Rogue can never beat other classes
The only thing a thief can win is Hunter
And
There is 1v1 Arena in Wowcircle server in Russia, where Rogue has never been on the top list
Okay
In your opinion, what classes are the most forgiving upon making a mistake? I would assume melee > casters.
DK's, Feral druids, Affliction locks, Shadow priests, holy pallies off the top of my head and this is in general pvp, arenas, and 1v1.
@@apexanalysis8348 Great, thank you!
@@bens9450 maybe avoid feral until you have some game knowledge. They can be either forgiving or a loss depending on enemy skill
@@SpeeksInCursive Feral the hardest class to play in WotLK. It's not forgiving. If you don't know the class you'll wonder why it's crap but if you're great it's god tier.
Forgiving would be plate DPS.
I feel like you could move Ele to A, and Bal to S but otherwise good list.
do Unholy DKs need to equip shield to mitigate damage like warriors do?
No luckily they don't so less gearing needed as well as less binds + macros
@@apexanalysis8348 well why not, isnt it better to equip a shield before getting shadow danced on
@@PackCentral DK's can't equip a shield...
@@AFX_______ lmao
Affliction locks are great against healers against melee is just a joke even more vs warriors when they remove fear easly and you depend a lot on it
LOL that intro.
Who is better with plate wearers? Lock, shadow priest or rogue? Wanna to choose pvp main, trying to figure out who have better chances to pvp unholy/other plate wearers, bks there is tons on them
I would say none of the above but if I was forced to pick one it would probably be rogue particularly with ret/preg and SP/lock particularly with UNH dk. But none of those synergize amazingly
Ret and sub rogue are both garbage in 1v1 vs good players.
Ret definitely isn't garbage 1v1 lol. But there are a lot of bad rets out there. Sub rogue being called garbage 1v1 is pretty troll too
@@apexanalysis8348 th-cam.com/video/70-BoWZItoM/w-d-xo.html
@@apexanalysis8348 ya sub rogue can be argued to be the best outside of fighting tanks
I don't quite agree with affliction, I was affliction in WOTLK and the only specs which gave me a hard time were DKs and hunters... I would DESTROY pallies / mages / shamans...
Affliction _definitely_ destroys mages and ele shamans, but enhance and geared ret pallies can just chop you down before your dots get a chance to rot - assuming you can't just port behind a pillar
yo bro i dont rly agree on Ele man i think with the right gears they can do well in world pvp and dueling and they are extremly tanky i still agree on Ele need a good amount of gears to do well
I reckon it couldve been higher too.
They're not 1v1 gods but they do pretty well in the right hands. Shadow, Rogue, Feral, and Hunter are the only ones that are hard to play against.
@@iblisellis7114 and vs melee to vs high resil they can win to
I feel like in 3v3s it's always been RMP, RMP, RMP
I dont find Paladins topping 1v1 because every single caster will win you if you are equally geared and skilled. They are good against Melee classes, but hey its not enough for top classes un my opinion. B - list
Yeah I think a lot of average/mediocre ret/preg paladins feel that way or people who play against bad/average ones. I crush mages by cheesing them with early bubble and pve gear. Warlocks without having los to abuse port and glyph of turn evil allows me to insta cc felhunter/succubus and then just chop up the lock with trinket first cc, freedom SF, and bubble next big CC while also dispelling immolates. SP is the hardest caster to deal with but you can occasionally win with the right RNG and preventing MD on your bubble with hoj/repent/arcane torrent if you have.
@@apexanalysis8348 I'm sorry but if you are beating Frost Mages as a Ret you are playing against someone who does not have a functioning brain. Any competent Frost Mage will completely embarrass a Ret. How? Let's see... Duel starts with Mage poly and stealing your buffs, so you have no buffs. Then they instantly get a huge slow on you because 60%+ slow from range is a thing blizzard decided. Oh, you decide to hand of freedom? Nope, that's stolen too, and you are slow again. So now what do you do? Are you close enough to cast repentance to slow the gap? Go ahead, they trinket it. Bad move? Nah, because if you stun they can just blink. So let's say you decide against that and early bubble. By the time you even get near them, your bubble is basically done. Worst case scenario for the mage just ice blocks your bubble. So far you have used hand of freedom, bubble, and the mage should still have full health. Now you have basically nothing. The mage then frost novas when you get close. Aha, now is your chance to hand of freedom again. Aaaaand it's gone. Now the mage can cast ANOTHER nova with his pet. He is now free to start shattering and doing whatever he wants. At the very best, you can trinket the stun, but you are still permaslowed and will never, EVER catch him. Oh, you get close enough and try to wings 1 shot? That's gone too, another buff not only purged but TAKEN by the mage.
The match up is incredibly 1 sided. I would love to watch you play against these mages.
@@Brian-lc1zt If the ret knows what he s doing, he cannot lose to Frost mage.
Retri pala is the king of 1v1, every single 1v1 tournament on warmane was won by retri pala
Affli being the second worst DPS dueling class with only fury warrior being worse, what? Affli eats most casters and melees for breakfast in 1v1.
What? Affliction gets chomped on by melee. It's almost a free win assuming they can't abuse some sort of pillar or z axis to let you rot to dots.
Eats melees? What you smoking 😂
I think fire mage can do better and is very strong vs frost and destro also arcane can play well long range with slow+ (good frost mage can win vs destro more often but feral druid is the worst enemy
Fire might be able to do better in some matchups over frost. But destro is a hard counter to frost mage in particular. The destro has to be very bad to lose.
you are insane to not put mage into number 1 spot. It is overall most overpowered, universal class in the wotlk. While it is true you might struggle with some match ups like destro/hunter/UH DK (only real threats to frost mage) you should still beat destro. Nether protection is spell steal - so he is basically giving you the buff, 1 fake cast and once his interrupt is gone you can pop off on him and mage free cast over the period of lets say 5 seconds is higher than locks initial burst with chaos (which you will be blocking anyway). So your explanation is completely wrong, sorry bud. Even considering that warrior can touch a mage in wotlk is again wrong. That is not even close. It is a joke for mage to shit on warrior still in wotlk. DK and Hunter is other story. As mage if its god vs god you should lose in open field but you can make it close at least. In arena its different story and you shit on them.
By your logic, I'm perfectly sane to not put mage at #1. You're talking about it having multiple losing matchups while DK's have arguably 1 or 0 lol.
@@apexanalysis8348 Let me correct myself because I agree that maybe I did not make it clear enough. Mage should be somewhere top dog, not bellow. What is a ret doing there? lmao..... Sp loses to feral, war, dk, mage, any rogue - again, what is it doing there?:))
SP imo has a very close mu with mage, it does lose to DK usually, I think it has an edge against warrior and if the warrior isn't super geared they have a big edge against warrior(most SP's don't spam dp enough and they should), feral I think has a close MU as well to shadow I'd even give a slight edge to shadow there too regardless of berserk fear immunity. And then versus rogue if the priest is stacking max resil and using bauble + timing it with wound poison I think they have the edge too. So out of all of those I think just dk is a losing MU then 2 of those about even and 2 the sp is slightly favored
@@Nyzmoe SP loses. To dk? Lmao:)))) shadow priest cannot lose to dk if he plays well.
Same for Frost mage vs any warlock. If the Frost mage does the pet kiting strat, he cannot lose. You cannot do anything as the warlock
@@Zeraloptf are you yappin about spriest wins against DK, 1 pull in and you are screwed only thing that keeps spriest alive is distance, any class that has range or any melee class that can close distance quickly absolutely dominates spriest.
I don't get it, why arms so high.
Soul Link warlock not a thing? Not S tear?
All locks have soul link in Wrath
Its pronounced may-lay..not me-lay. Jeez
Ret S tier for 1v1?!? Did you ever play it? No, really do you every play it? I love ret and it awlays was the 'fun' alt for me but he loses to most casters + very very hard time with the most melees
Using yourself as an example when you only "alt" a ret probably at a poor level means that is as high as ret can go huh?
Affliction warlock in B-tier? Affli beats all casters except very good shadow priests.
And then they lose to every single melee. Maybe I'd rank them differently if this was a casters 1v1 dueling list.
@@apexanalysis8348 Preg gets murdered by casters the same way affliction gets murdered by melee but you ranked them 3 tiers higher. Also you said ferals run down boomkins, thats not even close to true. Boomkins can CC and heal through the bezerk, once its over the boomkin easily wins.
@@adam6228 tell me your tier list?
I disagree about the Rogue vs Hunter. I find Hunter well suited for any physical dps match up
arms warrior is not even close to S tier.. any class can one shot an arms warrior. warriors are good only with healers in their pockets tbh
Not even remotely true. You probably haven't played much wrath or are only used to bc/vanilla
@@apexanalysis8348 check swifty videos nad tons of xp in private servers. try to kill a ret paladin or preg paladin or even a prot paladins. u could at least rogue but if they play well you just never gonna kill it. the amount of ways to troll a warrior are just sad tbh. they are good but if u have the right healer in ur pocket
@@carlosdanieltorresviana220 no mate, you're wrong. warrior is good for dueling
@@carlosdanieltorresviana220 Swifty aint a thing mate...
haha then you dueled bad warriors i guess if you duel a arms warrior that knows what hes doeing he can destroy any class
BRO WARRIORS IN PREPATCH NOT AN S TIER. PLAYING AGAINST PALA AND DK AND CANT WIN NOTHIN! WTF YOU TALKIN ABOUT
Who said pre patch
@Луни Тьюнс ?
@@apexanalysis8348 I’m think that hybrid dk are overpowered for 1v1 pvp. But I’m also not a top tier player. Ty for response!!! Have a good day bro. As for me, I’m only play warrior class cuz I’m loving it!!))) and I’m don’t give a Fuck who is the S tier)))) I’m also believe that on 80s war must became stronger!!! Peace bro!!🙌
do you have a discord?
I haven't made one yet but I might eventually I'm not on discord as much as I used to be