I'm really loving your content! It's love to see a tier list on the best peelers, hardest to kill, as well as a best sustained damage to go with your burst tier list!
Druids and Hunters are always good in BGs every expansion. Usually Disc Priests too. And Warriors with heals are BiS if you keep him dispelled and freedom at the right times.
Yes! That is one I'm trying to get out somewhat soon™ but I want to cover every spec and some of them are rare so it's harder to know exactly where they stand without me dueling them more
Yes I agree, when RBGs first came out it was super interesting seeing everyone learn the meta too. It would be new having them here in Wrath so it would probably lead to that again
affliction lock under ret paladin o_O you'd think range and pure damage would make affliction higher. like sun tzu said, all battleground warfare is based on dropping fools
Well unlike in bc or especially in vanilla where healers oom much faster, burst is more of the name of the game in wrath bg metas. Rets can walk up to a random player every 10-15 seconds and hit them with a brutal rotation that requires no setup and can hit for 40+% of their hp.
i see, that's interesting. i played the mage in shatterplay, pretty casually (we coasted on being human with trinkets like dislodged foreign object) to like 2400 (top teams at the time in the battlegroup were ~2650) in the original wotlk release basically just as the comp was "discovered" i definitely remember me and the spriest going oom if we failed to set up kills properly, before either team's healer had mana issues, so even my ancient irrelevant experience corroborates what you said. i guess raw dots
I mean fury warriors and retribution paladins do a majority of battleground carries almost every battleground I did in 2009 and 2010 you had those 2 specs getting 50+killing blows and only 5-7deaths sometimes less deaths they just ham through everyone.
I will agree with you on ret pallies(which is why I rated them so high), but definitely not fury warriors. I played in original wrath and dont remember them ever doing good but more importantly playing BGs now fury is nowhere to be seen. But arms warrior on the other hand is quite visible when they got pocket healers. All specs can be useful - if you're geared and good + pocket healers anything can do "well" but some are just objectively better
A lot of the classes get extra boosts via engineering, a bubble pala with rocket boots will be impossible to kill in the hands of a good player, same with ele shaman with 100% permanent wolf, roots, knockback and rocket boots, frost shock, good luck killing that guy
Yeah but the problem is rocket boots have a long cooldown as well as bubble. Shamans can stay in wolf but if they have judgement of justice or any slows on them even with ghost wolf they still will be going slow with rocket boots activated(the few times it's actually off cooldown)
I agree most the list but Putting frost this high is kinda sus. I main frost in classic to tbc and played in wotlk. Frost is never good in bg especially when against good players who know what they doing. The reason is simple. Frost has a lot burst but the target has to be Cc’d. Players are going to take constant random damage which could very easily break the freeze. Plus There are so many abilities to get people out of cc like freedom, dispel, even random grounding totem. Your not going to kill anyone in a group fight. The moment you start your burst on freeze target you would instantly gets focused. Basically you’re trading damage which is not ideal for a mage. They can be good in small fights like 1v1 or 2v2 but that’s about it. Also they run out of mana extremely quick. Fire on the other hand, has a lot of instant casts which give them much better survivability. Better sustain and reliable damage source. Great up time and aoe. Everything you want for a random bg. I will even put them higher than arcane because of that 1v1 potential and survivability.
Well I really don't think you can say frost is never good in bgs. It might be worse then some other specs but it is the only one that can bring a large undispellable slow(blizzard) constant roots on many people(they won't all be breaking). Also Deep doesn't break to damage and a 5 second stun on anything from range on a short cooldown means it's dying if a few people can connect. I had someone in the comments say frost should be much higher even so there are certainly differing opinions. I think their burst is higher then you are giving it credit. Even in a big teamfight you can still get FoF and Brain Freeze procs which you can easily throw on anyone with a frostbolt, ice lance, FFB and do a ton of damage. If they didn't have all of the slows, roots, IB/blink I would have put them lower. I agree though that their overall damage is the lowest of anything I ranked that high
Heavily I don't think so. But slightly maybe, where would you rank them? And if we're averaging in larger BGs like Isle/AV you can't value them very high there
Big battles aren’t favorable to squishy classes. Yeah you can get a 20 kb game every now and then , but they thrive in smaller combat. People forget we get 2-3 new big battles in PvP which favor ranged more
Fire mages are definitely stronger than arcanes, they often are top damagers on the entire BG by far, especially on Alterac Valley. Elemental shamans are kinda not as great, because they don't have spammable AoE spells.
@scratch Yeah I tried to focus more on the most common bg types. If I narrowed it down to isle/AV I agree with you and would rank things like fire, boomkin, dk, afflict lock at the very top
It hurts me too. For mostly ranged classes if you can stay in the back and snipe - in particular hunters with their evasive playstyle(FD, shadowmeld, Deter 2x, freedom, etc) they can really capitalize on the powerful damage from pve gear. But something like a healer doesn't benefit much since they just flop.
That's how they've always been. But warriors combined with that healer which are plentiful are always monsters. Warriors are far better in general 1v1'ing in wrath compared to bc/vanilla however so I would still disagree with using the word effective. Optimal would be a better description
@@stonymontana9773 that's complete nonsense you regurgitating bc everyone says that. yes survival has "no burst" compared to marksman in ICC 25 man hc armor pen gear. but in season 1 you can burst almost has much and have way higher sustained damage. especially if you play marksman in full pvp gear with not JC armorpen gems, then you have dogshit burst too as marksman. SV is super solid and gets weaker as marks gets stronger.
@@stonymontana9773 and bad players have a way easier time with survival too, marksman is soooo hard to play good. SV will do better for all the casuals, especially early. Marksman is as hard to play as feral druid i would argue. Most people are better off playing boomkin even tho feral is "better and has more burst" ... still wont do shit in a bad players hand
@@FreshFowkz lol whatever you say. I mained hunter In original wotlk and have played it for over ten years and play it currently in tbc…. But I’m just repeating… 😂The burst between surv and mm isn’t comparable in any season. You don’t have a silence which means you won’t put any pressure on healers or any casters really. chimeras utility trounces > black arrow / es which can and will be dispelled quickly ; and you give up the damage and disarm from chimera. You’ll get very limited lnl procs which means you’ll have to trap weave in PvP. Gl with that in bgs and arena with people on you…. And on top of that no double deter from readiness in mm. Surv is only better against kiting and pinning down melee but caster who aren’t mages will laugh at you. And you’re right , bad players will have an easier time with it bc it’s an inferior spec. Hunter is very high skill cap class in PvP and shouldn’t be played by new players imo.
They can be, but a lot of the time without their cooldowns they just do pitiful damage and are very squishy. But if this was a list for just wsg I would rank them really high for sure but I tried to average all of the bgs
This list is okay, but at the end of the day it comes down to which teams got more premade groups and gear.. Regular BGs are always a dice roll, you can have the best class but if your team is dogshit or in full greens you will still get ran over.
Somewhat true. However one good player can = 5 others which can make a massive difference. If your bg is filled with rogues, enhance shamans, blood dks, fury warriors and they're a premade with good gear they will still get rolled by a random pug that has good specs/classes/gear
@@apexanalysis8348 what are the chances your whole team consists of pure off-meta classes like those? especially a premade? id say maybe .0001 but yeah in the event you do see that unicorn, i'd still favor the premade LOL
Well a ret can go from 1 shotting person to person in a bg and be very difficult to kill with just 1 healer. You'd be surprised how tough it can be for a frost mage to actually get a lot of damage and kills going with roots breaking constantly. Rets have 0 ramp up and massive burst on demand every few seconds - combined with some strong pve pieces, people get deleted
I'm really loving your content! It's love to see a tier list on the best peelers, hardest to kill, as well as a best sustained damage to go with your burst tier list!
Thanks for the video ideas Ken! I will definitely work on some of those eventually.
This is the kind of content I am looking for... Please keep it up.
Feral is the best spec for BG map objectives. Capturing flags in wsg/eots , defending bases in AB, and capturing AV towers.
Great tier list ideas man👍
This is the exact content I want. I love bgs and I just wanna be op in a bg
Yes Bg's are very fun in wrath imo and there are many options to be op in bgs but some really shine over others
Great Video , Keep grinding & You will blow up soon 🙏🏾
Great video!
Agreed! Wouldn’t hurt to crop the camera in a bit so we can see you better!
Oh okay I will try to keep that in mind, I wasn't sure how big/small I should be since I've never had feedback on it. Thanks!
Druids and Hunters are always good in BGs every expansion. Usually Disc Priests too.
And Warriors with heals are BiS if you keep him dispelled and freedom at the right times.
Yup spot on I agree with all of that. Druids in WSG especially are just born for this
Very solid tier list!!
Would you mind doing a BG comp video? Much appreciated 😁
Hey Luke, what do you mean by that? Like the best composition for a premade by specs 10 man, 15 man? Or something else?
Good stuff :D
Thanks glad you enjoyed it!
@apex analysis can you do a world pvp/dueling tier list?
Yes! That is one I'm trying to get out somewhat soon™ but I want to cover every spec and some of them are rare so it's harder to know exactly where they stand without me dueling them more
would be cool to get RBG's, i think wrath has the most fun bg's.
Yes I agree, when RBGs first came out it was super interesting seeing everyone learn the meta too. It would be new having them here in Wrath so it would probably lead to that again
Would you be able to do a Season 5 class tier list so the meta changes especially with melee as they get gear? Thanks!
Yes, that has been requested a lot I will be doing that or some version of a first season list!
Ty for video. Does rbg will be on in woltk classic?
I hope so! They really should consider adding them in some form
Ele should be higher, with thunderstorm you can single handedly win a lot of teamfights, pretty much every BG has at least one high up spot
Yup. But if you do play something like assassination rogue blood dk holy priest, even if you are godly it will be impossible to get relatively high
affliction lock under ret paladin o_O you'd think range and pure damage would make affliction higher. like sun tzu said, all battleground warfare is based on dropping fools
Well unlike in bc or especially in vanilla where healers oom much faster, burst is more of the name of the game in wrath bg metas. Rets can walk up to a random player every 10-15 seconds and hit them with a brutal rotation that requires no setup and can hit for 40+% of their hp.
i see, that's interesting. i played the mage in shatterplay, pretty casually (we coasted on being human with trinkets like dislodged foreign object) to like 2400 (top teams at the time in the battlegroup were ~2650) in the original wotlk release basically just as the comp was "discovered"
i definitely remember me and the spriest going oom if we failed to set up kills properly, before either team's healer had mana issues, so even my ancient irrelevant experience corroborates what you said. i guess raw dots
They should bring RBGs to classic!
Yes please! Why not blizzard?
I mean fury warriors and retribution paladins do a majority of battleground carries almost every battleground I did in 2009 and 2010 you had those 2 specs getting 50+killing blows and only 5-7deaths sometimes less deaths they just ham through everyone.
I will agree with you on ret pallies(which is why I rated them so high), but definitely not fury warriors. I played in original wrath and dont remember them ever doing good but more importantly playing BGs now fury is nowhere to be seen. But arms warrior on the other hand is quite visible when they got pocket healers. All specs can be useful - if you're geared and good + pocket healers anything can do "well" but some are just objectively better
tldr - strong spec = bg hero :)))
except arcane mage lol
Pretty much, although a few exceptions!
@@apexanalysis8348 yes ofc! Twitch stream when??? 😏
I don't know! I never planned on streaming since it's such a big time sink but maybe one day!
Elems op
Feral on WSG with rocket boots. gg ez flag runs.
The combo of dash and travel form alone makes flag capping an easy task, nvm the rocket boots
Yeah Druids run WSG all specs for sure.
A lot of the classes get extra boosts via engineering, a bubble pala with rocket boots will be impossible to kill in the hands of a good player, same with ele shaman with 100% permanent wolf, roots, knockback and rocket boots, frost shock, good luck killing that guy
Yeah but the problem is rocket boots have a long cooldown as well as bubble. Shamans can stay in wolf but if they have judgement of justice or any slows on them even with ghost wolf they still will be going slow with rocket boots activated(the few times it's actually off cooldown)
I agree most the list but Putting frost this high is kinda sus. I main frost in classic to tbc and played in wotlk. Frost is never good in bg especially when against good players who know what they doing. The reason is simple. Frost has a lot burst but the target has to be Cc’d. Players are going to take constant random damage which could very easily break the freeze. Plus There are so many abilities to get people out of cc like freedom, dispel, even random grounding totem. Your not going to kill anyone in a group fight. The moment you start your burst on freeze target you would instantly gets focused. Basically you’re trading damage which is not ideal for a mage. They can be good in small fights like 1v1 or 2v2 but that’s about it. Also they run out of mana extremely quick. Fire on the other hand, has a lot of instant casts which give them much better survivability. Better sustain and reliable damage source. Great up time and aoe. Everything you want for a random bg. I will even put them higher than arcane because of that 1v1 potential and survivability.
Well I really don't think you can say frost is never good in bgs. It might be worse then some other specs but it is the only one that can bring a large undispellable slow(blizzard) constant roots on many people(they won't all be breaking). Also Deep doesn't break to damage and a 5 second stun on anything from range on a short cooldown means it's dying if a few people can connect. I had someone in the comments say frost should be much higher even so there are certainly differing opinions. I think their burst is higher then you are giving it credit. Even in a big teamfight you can still get FoF and Brain Freeze procs which you can easily throw on anyone with a frostbolt, ice lance, FFB and do a ton of damage. If they didn't have all of the slows, roots, IB/blink I would have put them lower. I agree though that their overall damage is the lowest of anything I ranked that high
Rogues are heavily underestimated here
Fck rogues there overestimate everywhere else
Agreed
Heavily I don't think so. But slightly maybe, where would you rank them? And if we're averaging in larger BGs like Isle/AV you can't value them very high there
How can you not value rogues highly in AV?
Big battles aren’t favorable to squishy classes. Yeah you can get a 20 kb game every now and then , but they thrive in smaller combat. People forget we get 2-3 new big battles in PvP which favor ranged more
Fire mages are definitely stronger than arcanes, they often are top damagers on the entire BG by far, especially on Alterac Valley. Elemental shamans are kinda not as great, because they don't have spammable AoE spells.
@scratch Yeah I tried to focus more on the most common bg types. If I narrowed it down to isle/AV I agree with you and would rank things like fire, boomkin, dk, afflict lock at the very top
Are you calling the Dots Aids?
Lots of people do
Yes people refer to lock/spriest/dk/boomkin dots as aids.
hi syburz
Hurts to hear you talk about pve geared classes in pvp…guess this is for the casuals vs casuals bg
It hurts me too. For mostly ranged classes if you can stay in the back and snipe - in particular hunters with their evasive playstyle(FD, shadowmeld, Deter 2x, freedom, etc) they can really capitalize on the powerful damage from pve gear. But something like a healer doesn't benefit much since they just flop.
So warr is only good with healer? like the only class that needs a healer to be effective? without a healer it sucks? thats so lame and unfair
That's how they've always been. But warriors combined with that healer which are plentiful are always monsters. Warriors are far better in general 1v1'ing in wrath compared to bc/vanilla however so I would still disagree with using the word effective. Optimal would be a better description
survival is too low and frost mage too
Possibly, but not by much
Surv is about right . Mm is the better spec. Surv has no burst
@@stonymontana9773 that's complete nonsense you regurgitating bc everyone says that. yes survival has "no burst" compared to marksman in ICC 25 man hc armor pen gear. but in season 1 you can burst almost has much and have way higher sustained damage. especially if you play marksman in full pvp gear with not JC armorpen gems, then you have dogshit burst too as marksman. SV is super solid and gets weaker as marks gets stronger.
@@stonymontana9773 and bad players have a way easier time with survival too, marksman is soooo hard to play good. SV will do better for all the casuals, especially early. Marksman is as hard to play as feral druid i would argue. Most people are better off playing boomkin even tho feral is "better and has more burst" ... still wont do shit in a bad players hand
@@FreshFowkz lol whatever you say. I mained hunter In original wotlk and have played it for over ten years and play it currently in tbc…. But I’m just repeating… 😂The burst between surv and mm isn’t comparable in any season. You don’t have a silence which means you won’t put any pressure on healers or any casters really. chimeras utility trounces > black arrow / es which can and will be dispelled quickly ; and you give up the damage and disarm from chimera. You’ll get very limited lnl procs which means you’ll have to trap weave in PvP. Gl with that in bgs and arena with people on you…. And on top of that no double deter from readiness in mm. Surv is only better against kiting and pinning down melee but caster who aren’t mages will laugh at you. And you’re right , bad players will have an easier time with it bc it’s an inferior spec. Hunter is very high skill cap class in PvP and shouldn’t be played by new players imo.
First
sub rogue should definately be top tier. game changers
They can be, but a lot of the time without their cooldowns they just do pitiful damage and are very squishy. But if this was a list for just wsg I would rank them really high for sure but I tried to average all of the bgs
This list is okay, but at the end of the day it comes down to which teams got more premade groups and gear.. Regular BGs are always a dice roll, you can have the best class but if your team is dogshit or in full greens you will still get ran over.
Somewhat true. However one good player can = 5 others which can make a massive difference. If your bg is filled with rogues, enhance shamans, blood dks, fury warriors and they're a premade with good gear they will still get rolled by a random pug that has good specs/classes/gear
@@apexanalysis8348 what are the chances your whole team consists of pure off-meta classes like those? especially a premade? id say maybe .0001 but yeah in the event you do see that unicorn, i'd still favor the premade LOL
Ret above frost mage? 😂 a mage can control an entire team in a bg. This is wrong on so many levels
Well a ret can go from 1 shotting person to person in a bg and be very difficult to kill with just 1 healer. You'd be surprised how tough it can be for a frost mage to actually get a lot of damage and kills going with roots breaking constantly. Rets have 0 ramp up and massive burst on demand every few seconds - combined with some strong pve pieces, people get deleted