Arcs may be Leder's best game yet - TCbH Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- 00:00 - Intro and blighted reach
01:43 - Game concept & overview
03:00 - Taking actions
05:46 - Declarative scoriae via ambitions
07:06 - 2 player
08:26 - Asymmetry, expert craft, and critical odds and ends
10:55 - Final thoughts
Links:
Our Site - www.cardboardherald.com
Our Video Channel - / thecardboardherald
Our Twitter - / cardboardherald
Our Patreon - www.patreon.com/user?u=9669551 - เกม
Cole is definitely one of the greatest game designers alive. Hope he has many many more games in him.
I’ve played Arcs a bunch of different times now, including the expansion and asymmetric leaders. It’s a testament to how solid the fundamental mechanics of the game are that I still look forward to playing the base game, without any of the extras.
Usually means the expansions failed to do something right then because expansions should enhance the base game and if it takes away from it then it had failed.
For me that’s everdell. Love the base game but every expansion just takes away from it and I don’t use any of them despite having them all.
@@Schrogs I'd say that's true in many cases. Expansions can just make a game "flabby". In Arcs case, the Leaders and Lore add an asymmetry that is very cool, but do not fundamentally change that game, so I think it's valid to prefer the game either way. In the case of the Blighted Reach, it creates an utterly different experience on top of Arcs. Where you are constantly fighting for every point in the base game, you are more interested in pursuing your own unique objectives in the campaign, and may find yourself allied with other players depending on what you want to do. This stands in stark contrast to the base game, where supporting or negotiating with other players only really happens when one player is literally going to win.
I can see someone really loving the strategic competitiveness of the base game, but not liking asymmetry that could unbalance things, or the more free-wheeling storytelling of the Blighted Reach. I could also see the opposite, where a big fan of something like Oath would only ever want to play the Blighted Reach version of the game.
It's relatively unique in my experience, which is what makes it so special.
Do you think that eventually you will play more of the expansion or base game? This is of course very group specific, but I'm still curious.
I preordered the base game and leader pack, but still on the fence for the expansion. My group does not care about a single bit about storytelling or lore, and just wants good gameplay. For example, Gloomhaven is a very story heavy game, but we never read any of the story and only play for the objectives. Would you personally still recommend getting the expansion for a group like that?
Root has been "my favorite game of all time" ever since I first read the first 3 or 4 pages of the PDF Law of Root in a wild stupor after doing the first couple of tutorials for the digital version. I couldn't believe in that game's design. I couldn't believe that level of asymmetry was even possible on a board game. On top of that, it has, to this day, my favorite art direction of any game, and is still my shining gold standard for games that perfectly marry mechanics and theme in a way that pushes both to eleven. From not only this video, but your older videos about Root, I am very confident in saying I like Root at least just as much as you do.
Root was also my doorway into so many other amazing games, from Cole Wehrle's own other games (all of which I came to add to my collection after Root, and all of which are firmly somewhere in my Top 20 at least, despite none ever toppling Root), to other Leder Games, to COIN stuff, to Pax stuff, and so much more.
And yet.
Arcs is better.
IT FEELS SO WEIRD TO SAY! But it is. It actually is. The more I play it, the more it becomes clear. Arcs is so good, it's so well designed, that I've been writing a piece all about the ways in which particular design choices and elements in it are direct refinements or improvements over similar design elements in Wehrle's previous works.
Base Arcs is, at release, every bit as viable and interesting and deep as fully-expanded Root as a competitive game.
Campaign Arcs is, at release, better than Oath at most of what Oath was trying to do. As Tom from SU&SD very wisely put it in his review, "Arcs has Oath's cake and it eats it TWICE".
And it will only get better.
Root will always have the most unique theme, and the most wild and delicious and fascinating asymmetry. Arcs is not better than Root at these specific things. Arcs will not replace Root. Ever.
But it is, overall, shockingly, an even better game. And, hey, time will tell, but, as of right now, I believe it… is……… my new favorite game of all time.
Wild, isn't it? Ever consider writing some board game reviews because you just summarized what so many of us "content creators" have been taking hours to convey.
Thanks for sharing & cheers from Alaska!
@@TheCardboardHeraldThanks, Jack! Actually does mean a lot to hear from someone whose writing I admire.
That said, I actually did go straight from the publish button here to the publish button on BGG. Posted a very minimally tweaked version of this comment over there as a review. I wish I could be this expressive all the time…
Which came first, this or the same exact post on BGG 😂
@@craigandrews7544 this one
Root got me into the hobby at large and as such will probably always be my favorite game (could you tell from my channel name?😆) but I completely agree with you about how amazing Arcs is. All I want to do is play more Arcs and when I’m not playing it, I’m thinking about it, talking about it, writing about it…😅
Hahaha, I feel the exact same way! Also cool to see your channel, I'm checking it out now.
Can’t wait for your blighted reach review!
Thanks! I got something good cooking, but I want to be able to dive deep.
Arcs is blowing up on youtube.
You get dice for all your ships, not just the fresh ones. Ship damage only matters for control and intercept.
You are totally right, I definitely misspoke there. Great catch!
Dang, your explanation of the card system while only 15 seconds really helped me understand how it worked vs the other how to videos. I didn't realise you placed your card and carried out the actions in one go. I thought it was like a pre round phase. I'm such a doughnut.
Hey it’s easy to miss rules all the time. My first few games of Castles of Burgundy I wasn’t aware that tiles had to be placed adjacent to your existing tiles!
Glad the explanation helped though, cheers from Alaska!
I have loved this game so far. Still only a couple games under my belt, but it is amazing for all the reasons cited here. highly recommend.
Nice! I got a better understanding of this game from your video than any other so far. Well done! The scoring does look amazing!
Hey, glad I could help. That's high praise considering the wealth of coverage the game is getting. Cheers from Alaska!
I concur
Excellent review! I’m much more interested now.
I agree with you about the 2-player experience. It’s not only their best 2-player game, it’s a great 2-player game. 5 of my 6 player have been with two, and I didn’t feel like I was missing out on anything unlike most of the other Leder Games titles.
Would that translate to the campaign too? I’ve just read that it’s super mean at 2 player which isn’t necessarily a bad thing
I think mean is relative. This is a mean game in general, and it's just all the more cutthroat at two because your competition and prey is only one other opponent. In the running for resources on one of the ambitions? Well you have one obvious target to steal from.
But honestly if you aren't playing "mean" in 3+, you aren't really playing the game as intended anyway. There are few paths to victory that don't at the least come from denial to your opponents, and in most cases comes from some direct interaction.
@@merkingGuy we had a great time playing the campaign at two, but I wonder if some of the Fates will be easier than others without more competition. My fate wanted me to interact a lot with the court. I only had one player to compete with for the cards, so I felt like I had an easier time accomplishing my objectives.
Great vid, thanks!
You got me wanting to play this bad boy
Arcs is incredible. Agreed, maybe better than root, but roots deep flavor, rules, lore, interactions, is something that will be incredibly difficult to surpass!
4:25 You don’t need to control the system to build a building there, you only need a loyal piece present! It would be built damaged, however
"One consistent thing aside from top notch artwork"
Can't wait for them to release their sister game FART.
I was skeptical of Arcs, though the campaign sounded interesting to me so I backed. I really like it a lot! Root and Oath are my favorite games but I can never get my friends to play them with be since they're both too complicated. Hoping my gaming group will think it's more simpler. Otherwise since it doesn't have a solo mode It'll sadly just collect dust. Which would suck since I really like it. Personally I think Cole Wehrle should just have solo modes in all of his games because he's notorious for making complex games that mostly only gamers really understand. I find myself playing Root and Oath solo all the time and love them. But if they didn't have a solo mode I might as well just not have them because no one would ever play them with me. Especially during Cvd I felt like Will from Stranger Things S2. (Guy's can we just play D&D?)
I'm in a similar boat but with Oath swapping in for Root. Both games are weirdly closer and now even symbiotic after reading the Oath KS designer diaries.
Right now, I consider Arcs the objectively better game, but once I get to the campaign it might also earn that favorite spot.
Regardless, you take a step back for a second and realize you're asking yourself if this is dethroning a favorite... Yeah, Arcs is quite special isn't it.
Absolutely! So wild, and what a time to be playing games.
My group really loves Root. We tried to get into Arcs but it just hasn't landed with us the way Root has.
Hey that's totally fair. They are very, very different games so I don't think liking one is confirmation that you'll like another, even if there's some similar DNA in there.
Ohhh boy just wait for the blighted reach… arcs is about to come for that #1 spot
Yeah, I've been thinking that just might happen :D
The trick taking makes the game more abstract because it has no connection to the theme. I don't like mechanics for the sake of mechanics. I want there to be a thematic justification. Well, unless the game is clearly not supposed to be a thematic game.
The theme for the trick taking is more political. Think of something like the space race and us and Russia fighting over developing technology or like one country declaring war and others following suite
the cards represent the orders you may give to your part of the empire. It's a mechanized metaphor : as a politician you have to play the card's you're dealt. You want to play aggressively and go to war but your supporter (cards in hand) don't have the appetite fro war that's okay.. maybe another player leads with agression and then you have a justification to copy. Imagining the cards as the political discourse of the fragmented empire really ties it all into the theme. It's with those same cards that you also declare your ambitions.
I get it, but I feel like it fits well within the ecosystem of the game. In truth all mechanics are abstractions of real events, even if they are representing something thematic.
Theme = one alien race did something, now you have to do it better. I'm sure we can all come up with a reason why that would have to be the case.
Isn't leder just the publisher? Shouldn't the title say cole wehrle?
It was intentional. I think this is Leder's best game, however I think Pax Pamir may still be the best design by Wehrle. Good catch and observation though!
@@TheCardboardHerald I guess i'm confused, you wouldn't say "the eminem show" is Dr. Dre's best album, or "X" is Penguin Authors House best book or "Fearless" is Big Machine's best album (Taylor Swift). I don't really know what Leder has anything to do with the actual game other than getting it printed. Does Leder have more to do with the game than I'm thinking?
@@tylerdrydenyes, though I also disagree with your comparison. Dr. Dre or Rick Reuben or Trent Reznor or whoever you name as a producer definitely has an influence on an album and is worth considering and critiquing their skills and what they bring to the table even if they aren’t the artist making the product.
Now Leder games is kind of unique in the board game space as they have a large, consistent creative team heavily involved in all their products and produce a small number of games for their size of team. As such there is a vibe to their work that draws comparison between them. And sure, Cole is the designer of Root and Oath and Arcs, but he is only one component of the creative work that makes their products, which is why his work in house feels familiar but somewhat apart from what he’s doing through Wehrlegig.
I think a better comparison would be like if you looked at a list of best A24 or Hammer horror films, or best Chess Records or Motown albums. There’s a creative team at work and an overall company philosophy that creates through lines. I think if Arcs or Oath or Root had been pitched to a different publisher the resulting games would have been very different.
@@TheCardboardHerald I did not realize this! That's great to know how involved they are.
Arcs is, undoubtedly, a lightening strike of game design. And yet, it leaves me feeling cool.
For me, at least, I've come to accept that theme is as just important - if not more - than mechanics and design. And unfortunately Arcs is sub-par in that category.
I fully understand that this perspective seems very unfair. I'm rather upset with myself because of it! Pero, así es.
@@goldengriffon not unfair in the least. We all come to games for different reasons and if theme were meaningless we would all just be playing on spreadsheets. It matters more to some than others, and like great art and craft, the theme of a game can speak more strongly to some than others.
I prefer Eclipse still…
I dont like the look at all , maybe its fun but it look so cheap
Doesn't feel cheap, components and board look great on the table
I really tried to like Root, but I don't. I crowd-funded Arcs with the all-in pledge, and I regret it. I don't like the game. I liked it better in it's earlier iterations. The game feels much more luck-based than previously, and it's driven me away from the game entirely after playing it several times. In 3 and 4 player game it's common to see one player become the table punching bag and basically eliminated, regardless of how well they're doing, entirely based on the luck of the hand draw, and the court. What was looking to be a great game instead became a tedious slog that takes more than twice the listed length to play. It doesn't feel balanced, and ultimately I don't think this game has any staying power.