Carlisle DERAILMENT: Before and after the Cement Train derailed into RIVER! 19, 20 & 22 October 22
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2022
- Carlisle DERAILMENT:
Before and after the full cement train derailed into the River Petteril!
Lines from Carlisle to Newcastle and Skipton closed!
19, 20 & 22 October 22
Filmed on three visits to Carlisle - at the station, at West Walls and of course looking towards the derailed cement train at Petteril Bridge Junction!
My first visit was during Wednesday afternoon before that evening's derailment. Nothing unusual, just another day!
At 1953 everything changed. A northbound cement train from Castle Cement at Clitheroe was heading for an overnight layover at Carlisle Network Yard before heading on Mossend the following morning. For reasons to be officially reported on, by the Rail Accident Investigation Branch, the train derailed on Petteril Bridge junction, on the bridge over that river. Two of the wagons ended up in the river and others were also off the track.
RAIB investigated on the Thursday and published their preliminary findings - one (or more) wheels on one or more wagons had developed 'false flange'. That is the groove in the wheel tyre formed after skidding along the rail. I wont speculate further on cause or effect, other than to say it made a mess of the pointwork and destroyed the parapet to the bridge parapet (dating from the 1830s?).
There is no public access to the site, I assume any close up videos have been taken by Network Rail staff. I took what video I could from London Road and the car park of B&Q, near to the accident site on the Thursday. Also a diverted departmental train heading to Crewe via Lancaster and the West Coast Main Line and an absence of trains to Leeds or Newcastle. Some replacement buses to Wetheral and Appleby had been arranged.
On Friday the loco and some wagons went off to Network Yard. The loco went off in the early hours of Saturday to Millerhill.
On Saturday Carlisle was rather quiet. Rail replacement buses now more frequent and to Haltwhistle for Newcastle and to Appleby for Leeds.
Also an RMT Train Managers strike on Avanti meant fewer Pendolinos, leaving TPE, Scotrail and the trains around the Cumbrian Coast to provide passenger interest.
Photo Credit to Network Rail for two copyright Press images of the derailment available to download from their website.
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Les, I've been a subscriber now for a good while and don't think I've ever commented, but your videos are absolutely top notch, amazing quality and production, and turned out on a regular basis too.....I know your hard work and effort is greatly appreciated by all viewers, great channel, all the best 👍
Wow, thank you! I'm glad that you enjoy them
It's amazing to see that despite the derailment being fairly moderate, these cars still have their bogies (or trucks) attached to their underframes with their wheels and suspension systems pretty much perfectly in tact. If this same derailment happened in the US, side frames, wheels and springs would have been scattered all over that roadbed.
I realise this was a relatively low speed accident - possibly 20mph - but as you say nearly everything appears to have stayed intact. Amazing!
I believe is mandated now in the UK that for new vehicles both freight and passenger bogies must be attached to vehicle bodies, not just sat on by gravity for safety reasons.
Seeing all those bent and buckled rails south of the station I'm not surprised there was a derailment. Also, all the weeds and bushes that are allowed to grow near the tracks these days is incredible. Would never have happened in British Rail days. My father used to work for BR, and he must be turning in his grave! On an equally serious note, was anyone injured in the crash? I hope the driver could swim. Great video by the way, Carlisle has always been one of my favourite stations, and glad to see you still call it citadel.
Thanks Joe. Loco and 5 wagons had passed the bridge. Not sure if coupling to 6th wagon hadn't broken as the next two appear to be on the track. Lots of work required to trackwork at the south junction but I expect they are waiting for HD2 works if and when it ever gets the go ahead up here (longer platforms 1 and 3, 2 goes and new platform under the wall).
Thanks to Maggie and her encouragement of free economy which was in fact a big cut in spending and nothing more.
Great video Leslie, thanks for sharing
Thanks!
Hi Les Another great video, very interesting the shots of the derailment and the new look Stobart curtainsiders, after the recent takeover. Thanks
Thanks Peter. The new Stobart curtains are attractive
Quite a collection again, but the derailment obviously grabs the attention. I hope no one was hurt. The cement tankers were quite interesting, and a lovely evening with an EWS 66 at the end. Thanks and hope you are well!
Thanks Anthony. Only the driver would be on the train and I've heard nothing untoward regards his experience.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways Hi, Leslie. Hope you are well! It's good to hear... you never know if someone was there or even on the response teams in the clear up.
Just came across your channel and I have to say great content
Thanks Chris, really glad you enjoyed.
Nice video leslie very good camera work as usual bye for now Philip
Thanks!
Nice Footage. Love the destination blind on the Rail Replacement Coach.
Good one eh? Thanks
The derailment near Carlisle is an absolute disgrace. It should’ve been dealt with in a day or two. It’s worth pointing out that the huge amount of wreckage following the disaster at Harrow & Wealdstone back in 1952 was cleared in less than a week. We’re pathetic in the 21st century!
A different time and different scenario. Work has been ongoing constantly . Retrieving the cement alone took 2-3 days. The bridge and embankments need assessment even before the wagons can be retrieved from the river and then any repairs, new points to be manufactured.... lots to do. If it had been on plain track on good foundations - and on a main line - then I dare say it would have been sorted by now.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways Be that as it may, but I still think there’s far too much pissing about. I’d have had a crane there within 24 hours and lifted the tankers clear then sorted the track and bridge.
@@nigelkthomas9501 I remember reading of one passenger rail crash in the old days where they just pushed the carriages off the embankment and got it all going again but in far less timid times. There will be a blame game and massive form filling I am sure. Interesting reading it may be a false flange as when I last travelled on Anglia railways pre-lockdown there was often at least one wheel flat clattering on each of the four car sets. It was interesting especially after travelling much of Europe when I cannot remember hearing even one. Possibly things have improved with the new stock. There is a tendency to declare a disaster area and bring everything to a halt nowadays. You wonder with I am assuming one man operation of these freight trains and the reluctance of any modern organisation to use people how any problem would ever be noticed.
Nice footage of trains hopping over points, where they should have a smooth path. Some big maintenance is needed here, maybe a rebuild makeing the track straight and flat again.
That alignment is around 50 years old now, but I expect there aren't any plans to do anything soon.
Hello, Leslie.
So I was here at B&Q Parking Lot and Outside Garden Centre was Closed and Auto-doors Locked on Thursday.
Hi Harry. Yes the doors to the garden centre were locked, but I looked carefully through the door windows. Nobody had bothered to restrict access to the car park fence though, although the view was difficult
I was on the Citadel station early Saturday morning and then again in the evening - travelling to and from Ravenglass - I've never known it so eerily quiet.
Saturday was noticeably quiet with nothing in or out of P5/6 and reduced Avanti services
I’m not travelling on trains anymore as I am sick off the see it say it sort it, what happened to welcome aboard the 0910 from Waterloo to Exeter, your buffet car is crack E And please have your tickets ready when the guard walks through. This train stops at crewkerne and Exeter st David’s. Please don’t open the dooor until the train has stopped. Thankyou
Announcements are overboard at times. Thanks for watching
Sounds like a stupid reason to it travel on trains anymore.
I gave up on being a rail enthusiast in 1994 the 50s were my thing, now I feel trapped in a thin dirty tube of a carriage with constant negative announcements, on the platform, in a station on a train all negative! Why not tell passengers your arriving at a station and briefly telling a historical fact, welcome to Milton Keynes founded in 1970 and has concrete cows, and a telecom museum, thank you for travelling avanti
Sheffield- A Groop of Pipple ar assking pippl forr munnee etc etc..
This may be a stupid question but why are RHT sets always filthy? Is it down to the spray jets flinging dirt in the air?
Not stupid at all. The water / sandite mix is sprayed at high pressure onto the rails but a cloud of water vapour with sandite in it bounces up and the wagons and loco behind run into it. After 19 hours of running like that its surprising how much builds up. after a week they can be caked in it.
Very good vid
Thanks!
that was a nice video sir. there some really dirty loco's out there.. he he.
Thanks Dave. I'm expecting some where it'll be difficult to see the livery soon lol
Superb footage Leslie, supported with great info, another interesting and enjoyable watch. 🤘
Thanks Brian
@@LeslieGilpinRailways lol, it's Brian here, the OG Angel, 😂
@@theangelsmodellingandrailways wrong angel lol. I've corrected my comment lol. Sorry
@@LeslieGilpinRailways all good mate. 🤘 😎
Good one Leslie, some nice captures. All the best.
Thanks Tim
Great video but the state of the track just south of the station looks like it should still be carrying steam lol
Thanks! The track almost does date from the days of steam - well early 1970s at least!
Well done Les, another cracking good video of the action around Carlisle. Is B&Q selling cheap bulk cement powder?
Thanks David. As far as I know none escaped 😏
Anyone know what is a false flange, ref the cement derailment.
The wheelset has probably been unable to turn causing the wheels to skid thus causing a sufficient groove in the tyre that when a curve is met the groove follows the rail as if its the flange rather than the full wheel and flange profile. Hence false flange,
Excellent footage.. The WCML is a great railway to see trains of all kinds. May I ask what camera you used as the footage is crystal clear?
It's a Sony camcorder - have a look at the bottom of the description for the model. Thanks for watching.
Good one Leslie - with the derailment of the cement wagons. What puzzles me is why single line working couldn't be used on the Newcastle line as the Eastbound line is perfectly clear. Cheers Euan
Until RIAB inspectors had completed their investigations then trains couldn't be allowed to work past. Not sure how simple bi-directional working would be on the N&C, where are the nearest crossovers towards Newcastle? Then there is the issue of recovery and repair, that will need the free track.
@@bfcmik
Thanks Euan. Once the on-site investigation was completed on Thursday 20th, the junction will need to be completely reviewed and the bridge underneath investigated for damage (its already lost the southern parapet). Plus when the tankers for taking away the cement by road arrive, followed by the heavy cranes to recover the two wagons on the river bank, they'll need access across the tracks.
They'd need possession of both tracks for the rerailing operation, plus the points may have been disarranged
Great stuff Les, I've just subbed, shame about all the weeds at Carlisle it looks bloody awful. Just sitting here wondering if there's any footage of Kingmoors 9F's running through the station, I've got a few photos in my collection, I live next to the old Tyne Dock to Consett branch and remember well the 9F banked iron ore trains labouring up the steep slopes, my favourite steam locomotive...
hI Allen/ 9 F Hauled Freight Trains Hardly ever traversed Citadel. Instead they went Via the one - time Extensive Goods Avoiding Line Layout . The only time steam Hauled freights were routed Thru Citadel is when the Goods Line Hub at Rome Street Junction /Bog junction were closed for Maintenance to infrastructure or there had been on rare occasions a derailment (I have 1 original Negative of a Crosti 92023 hauling a freight thru Citadel ).
The ` Moor ` sent 9 F 's L.E to Long meg and these may have been somewhat commoner thru Citadel.
Oh those were the days but before my time in Carlisle. Citadel would be passenger and parcels only then. The 9Fs and WDs would have used the goods lines of which little now remains.
thank you for the video :)
Thanks!
Once again brill video les and 2 crew changes 👍
Thanks Stu!
great video Leslie
Thanks Mels
Might it not be possible to run the Newcastle trains past that sooner rather than later?
Apparently not. As well as the junction points being given a bang to misalign them, access is needed across the northern track to empty the cement as appropriate (at least from the tanks down the riverbank) , lift and remove the wagons, examine the bridge structure and replace the junction points!
@@LeslieGilpinRailways Could some of that work be done from train mounted equipment that is shunted in between scheduled trains running on the line?
@@johndododoe1411 Although the track looks ok from a distance the pointwork is badly damaged. The line to Leeds would still be blocked.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways Obviously initial repairs would be needed to get a usable track before sharing that between traffic and repair equipment. Point was not to make everyone wait for recovery of the derailed cement.
Thanks Les, was sure you'd be on the case.
I live in Dunblane and am a regular at Stirling station. There's not a weed or self seeding bush anywhere to be seen. Carlisle station and environs look almost overgrown by comparison.
Thanks Mike. Sadly Carlisle has been much neglected within the station area. Network Rail and Avanti have gained a bad reputation for it being this bad.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways .
What editing app do you use
iMovie that comes with Mac computers. It's not the fanciest of editing software but it does what I need
@@LeslieGilpinRailways thanks mate
I used to hate those Metros on the Carlisle Newcastle
They probably outlasted their useful life
Great video Les some excellent catches there and good footage of the derailment 😞
looks like a seized axle could be the cause to me but i sippose we'll have to wait till R A I B
has done there investigation thanks for sharing Les take care A T B Syd👍
Thanks Syd. The RAIB report will be interesting.
Great footage! That's quite the network of tracks at the 15 minute mark!!
Thanks Rob. It is quite a good example of 1970 rationalisation of what had been a more complex junction!
Once again les great footage some derailment
Thanks Steve!
nice video good work
Thanks!
Nichts ist schlimmer als Windgeräusche in einem Eisenbahnvideo.
I agree but unable to prevent it yet
hi Les great video as always its a shame about the derailment but as everyone has said at least no one was hurt just a bit of pride i bet lol looking forward to the next days out with you stay safe
Thanks John!
Good video les. It's a shame about the derailment. Nice captures though. 👍👍
Thanks! Never good to have a serious derailment.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways its a shame.
Rare triple header.
Thanks Barry, It seems DRS occasionally take a few Freightliner 66s down to Crewe.
Kind of ironic that the track crane has a wheel flat?
I hadn't actually noticed.
That railhead treatment train is neat!
Sure is!
Hi Leslie, Petteril Bridge is where the S&C joins the Newcastle Line, just before reaching Carlisle, isn't it? Oh ask them to tidy up the station, it looks run down to me, from what I remember when I was last there, oh wait, 20 years ago, omg, mmmmm well maybe my rose tinted historic glasses are playing up again. Interesting to see the Grangemouth-Daventry container train at the end as I sometimes get to take containers to Daventry for loading on the train at work, so nice to see it up the line so to speak. Oh one last thing, what do they mean by "False Flange" as the likely cause of the derailment?.............Thanks again, very interesting, all the best Dave.
i saw a picture and explanation on gov.uk RAIB page for this accident which was helpful for me
Thanks Dave. The location is correct. Interestingly a friend showed my a photo of carlisle in the 80s, in that long period when waste bins were removed from stations. You wouldn't believe the amount of litter - no weeds but rubbish everywhere. BAsically a wheel set had stopped rotating for whatever reason causing the wheels to skid a wear a groove in the tyre - effectively creating a second flange on the wheel. Theres a useful photo on the RAIB website with the preliminary report.
Thats where I saw my gen. Excellent image but I wasn't sure that the photo was copyright or public domain so didn't use it.
If the cause of derailment of the cement cars was due to a false flange on one or more wheels,obviosly the maintance department has a lot of responce ability for it. (WHEELS DON'T LAST FOREVER).😐😐😐😐😐😐
Wagon maintenance or skidding.... Let's see what the RAIB investigation reveals.
🚂👍
Thanks Dave
In spite of the "event" you got a good selection Leslie. If Scotland get independence I suppose the Customs area will be at or near Carlisle which make the videos you have made there "of historical interest". Regards Michael
Thanks Micheal. I'm told when the railway from the north first opened Carlisle was indeed a customs post, as the duty on whisky differed between Scotland and England!
Yes, and I suspect the Customs Officers needed to taste the whisky too !!
If you look at an OS map it shows a foot path from London Road that leads along the river & under the rail bridge, leading to the recreation ground to the north.
I might just check. If there is it'll probably be blocked as there's a wagon there
The photos published of the "F
alse Flange" show how the wheelset has stopped turning and the tyre has almost worn down to the wheel itself. This is how the false flange is created. I am guessing but I suspect that the S & C will be inspected for damage quite away from Carlisle.
Indeed David. The RAIB full report will make interesting reading.
👍👍😎
Thanks Paco!
Seems like B&Q very nearly had a garden railway section! 😬😬
Indeed! And a bulk load for their builders yard
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They're visible to me
Still interesting trackwork here. Spotted slips and xings
Certainly are, although one double slip in the sidings
Sorry but WOW I love filthy locomotives
At this time of year there are some increasingly filthy ones about.
Nice to see that KIROW crane still in service, as it was built in my former hometown. 😊
There are several of them in the UK which are almost exclusively used for civil engineering work on the railway. When works are planned they have to be booked months in advance.
It was good to see one on the move. It's not often I've seen one on that train.
I thought EWS had ceased to be ? .
Indeed it has, but DB haven't repainted all the locos. Still some in EWS colours.
@@LeslieGilpinRailways okay thanks
15:16 those tracks look scary for real.
seems obvious that trains might suffer on em
The telephoto zoom does make it look worse than it is. All the same, there's a 20mph limit all through the station
@@LeslieGilpinRailways that's so sad to know about.
i hope the railway department does something about this.
Was meant to take a train to Carlisle station but git cancelled cause of it
An excursion was cancelled Saturday but the S&C and N&C lines appear to be carrying plenty of passengers via the replacement buses.
It looks like the line will be blocked a long time due to the damage caused to the bridge. I did not expect you could of got so close at B&Q.
Weeks I guess. I'd heard a wagon had gone through the fence into B&Q but apart from closing their garden centre there's no sign of anything affecting them. A wagon leaning against the fence around the full retail park perimeter though not visible to the public
One of the wheels locked up
Indeed. Interesting to see the RAIB report when it appears for the official explanation
@@LeslieGilpinRailways apparently the commuter train that went through before reported irregular wheelslip
2:46 oof
It happens in poor light but not often.
Hm, ye
1970s rail cranes
Today lots of orange boilersuits with tablets to promote Musks Empire.
Always lots of Orange
What's the twit got to do with rail?
If I was a train driver I'd be embarrassed to drive a train saying pride on it
I'm sure there are many drivers who are, although generally not in the present state of the industry.
Why might that be?
Oh dear, what a sad, sad person you are.
Thankfully, there are not that many homophobic drivers left now. The train crew are public servants and it is not in the network's interest to employ people with marginal and undesirable views.
"Hello, is that the Chief Stock Buyer at B&Q Headquarters, this is the Carlisle Store Manager, have you ordered 300 tons of cement to be delivered today if you did I would like to let you know its being dropped off in the car-park by rail as we speak".
lol, thanks for watching