Enduro 4 Stroke vs 2 Stroke Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 เม.ย. 2015
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The age old debate of 2 stroke vs 4 stroke rages on. In this video, we focus on the off road/enduro riders needs. With so many folks drinking the 4 stroke "cool aid" these days, we attempt to offer some valid reasons why the "big four" bike manufacutures, most popular here in the U.S., may not be equipping us with the best option for technical off road riding. We have taken notice of how dominant the 2 stroke bikes are in the hardest race courses on earth, most of which are staged in Europe. Take a look at the starting lines and podiums of those races and you'll notice the 2 strokes stretch as far as the eye can see. There is a reason for that. 2 strokes are amazing for single track. 2 strokes are amazing for technical, gnarly rides. They have a ton of power down low in the RPM range, pull really hard in the mid RPM range, and scream on the top end! They also don't stall as easily as their high compression 4 stroke bretheren. This is part 1 of a multi part series.
The more that I've ridden and tested dirt bikes over the years, the more that one thing has been driven home for me. There is no wrong answer to this debate. Sure, the 2 strokes are more fun for me to ride most of the time. Having said that, the 4 strokes certainly have their advantages in certain situations like on a track (I don't ride tracks, so it really doesn't matter to me).
Most of the time in the past couple of years, I've had a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke sitting in my garage. The only time I really get tempted to ride my 4 strokes is when I'm heading out to the desert where the speeds are going to be higher and the whoops are going to be deep. If I know I'm heading to tight, technical singletrack... I'm going to take the 2 stroke for sure.
I'm a 2 stroke convert because I have ridden 4 strokes since I was a kid. Back in the day, as a child, the 2 strokes scared me since the power was pretty much all or nothing. The big bore 2 strokes are not like this at all. They have tons of low end and mid range power. They are great.
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3rd disclaimer..... we are only going to tell you how good a 2 stroke is......
Mick Abb Just how it is.
+Mick Abb basic fact of reality. 4 strokes didn't replace 2 strokes in motocross because of their natural greatness, they did it by way of political affirmative action to make up for their inherent... well... ungreatness.
trumps cut down on carbon emissions might be a good thing for the 2 stroke in the US!
so true lets go four stroke
Mick Abb ikr, they are good, but OMG, please get someone who isn’t so biased XD
Can you guys get a comparison video with a guy who is biased with 4 strokes that would make a great video with you both making fair points let's see that like if you agree.
+Budda Shelton That is essentially every other video on the planet, so it's not really needed on here :)
Why would anyone be biased towards a 4 stroke ? Is that a real thing?
Brian Carpenter are you serious?
@@Bc5xdown because the 4 stroke is better in almost every aspect.
jacob van halteren did you watch this video?
I rode a kx 85, blew my top end 6 times, now on a kx 450f with about twice the hours and I haven't had to touch my bike besides the oil and clutch
This has got to be my favorite video of yours so far. Not because of the topic but because of the humor, organization, and just great info.
MrWalkerds Stay tuned for the future parts in the series! Please like, share, and subscribe. Helps us all to get the word out.
at the end of the day... everyone needs both a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke!
bunkerbuster I'm with you on that one!!
ThisISETHANBRADBERRY! Money doesn't grow on trees my guy
Done!😁
My four stroke weighs 800 lbs.
I agree! I started my son on a 80cc 4-stroke so he doesn't get killed on an 80cc 2 stroke 😂😂
LOL The piston should fire EVERY time it comes up! Nothing beats the 2 stroke for cost, weight, maintenance cost and oh that premix smell.
+dieselworld You know it!
dieselworld Is that why four strokes are faster?
Biased, but not wrong. These guys sold me on getting a two next. Seeing as how my 4 has been on a bench for the last 5+ years, though I never lost on a track.
Anyone insisting a 2 is better doesn't care about finishing first. On road. Off road. A 4 stroke beats a 2 stroke when in capable hands. Reliability? That's another issue.
If you're not speaking to the degree of supercross you aught to not be talking. That's how I feel about these two.
Then how come every engine in cars is a 4 stroke
emissions and tong term longevity. and pretty much nothing else..
Emissions. duh.
i searched such information so long and finaly theres someone talking clearly about the problems or myths. Thank you !
Best review I’ve ever seen thank you @dirtbikechannel
I'm a 2 stroke guy and always will be but to rebuild a 4 stroke top end does not cost 1500-2000, maybe a whole engine rebuild and that's to get it done at the shop , if you do it yourself its really not much more then 500-700$. now 2 stroke top ends usually run about 120-300 $ all in, depending on cc .Call your local
KTM dealer and ask how much an OEM 2T piston costs you would be shocked.The only time thumpers are really more costly is when you have a engine failure or engine performance parts. In stock form thumpers really aren't that much more costly if you take care of them. Two smokers have to be well kept too, pick your poison .
cheers mate
Ben Saunders I am not saying you guys don't know what you are talking about but no way is it cheaper to replace a 2t cylinder and top end then to just do a 4t top end that's not accurate man . the absolute cheapest you can get a 250 2t cylinder re-plated is about 200$ and can go up to 400$ then you have gaskets and piston , a 4 stroke cylinder is also cheaper to buy brand new because there is no moving parts in the cylinder.im not trying insult you guys need but you should do a bit of research first , I understand everybody has there opinion...
Ben Saunders Ben. I called multiple dealers, bro. I do research. Going rate is 2 grand if you have to do machine work on your 4t top end.
In NZ $300 to do 2T top end, 4T $500...not that different. We ride 4 strokes for trails as you get better mileage don't have to retro fit the bigger tanks, for long rides.
$1500-$2000 is for a shop to do it. Do it yourself, anywhere from $250 to $800 depending on what you need.
@@DirtBikeChannel but you are comparing apples to oranges here... meaning 2 stroke repair being done being done by owner and the 4 stroke repair by a dealer. in cost. ok so that is the point. parts for parts only its not as much.
wow, from the intro it seemed like this would actually be an unbiased informational series, not just shoving two strokes down my throat.
***** Thanks for watching Joel. With the entire industry shoving 4 strokes down everyone's throat for over a decade, I'm offering an alternative viewpoint. I own a 2014 4 stroke too, which I really like. I just don't like it as much as my 2 stroke. Happy riding!
Dirt Bike Channel awesome rebuttal took the words right out of my mouth.
Dt0x75 Thanks Buddy!
Totally agree.
Joel Gray well there is a reason motocross and supercross are still mostly 2 strokes
Good honest points! Really enjoyed the video, now onto part two!
+Jimmy Danger Gonzalez Stick around for all 6 parts!
this video should come on top on this topic, it's that good!
Well done mate!
Double Sigma I owned a 2003 Yafo dirt bike. In 8 years same motor adjusred vauves one or two times. The guy who bought it never seen it he webmnt off so thing someone else said.
ahhhh...2 smoke, I will never forget the first time I smelled that magic!
+Tim Wood A thing of beauty.
I just don't like riding a 4 joker
Agreed Tim Wood
If you are tired of yourr 4 stroke then do this:th-cam.com/video/1xjz1wwaNeI/w-d-xo.html, make a poppet valved loop scavenged 2 stroke out of it.
Take a dodge hemi and do something like this:th-cam.com/video/1xjz1wwaNeI/w-d-xo.html. a poppet valved blown loop charged 2 stroke. Now run dry sump with oil injection with castor 927 maxima and that would be something.
these guys aren't even doing a comparison there just bashing on 4 strokes
Truth hurts... The dollars to smiles ratio is far more favorable with a 2-stroke. This is coming from someone who owns both.
Ruthless Racing anyone who loves enduro should love the environment... In which case 4 strokes are better. They get better traction, tread lighter, and don't pollute tons of extra hydrocarbons and particulates.
The pinnacle of 2s power is a 48hp 250... That is 192hp per liter. Stock liter bikes (250 cylinders) make more than that, and race bikes from stock classes to MotoGP make 210-250 hp per liter. If manufacturers wanted to, they could make the 250f as or more powerful as a 250, but they want broader power (funny how the 250 has such a slim powerband and the 250f has to have a wide one) for BEGINNER riders.
The pinnacle of 500 cc 2-stroke GP bikes were making close to 200 hp - almost 400 hp per liter. Just sayin'....
6:24
A 68 chevy 327 chevy can rev over 8000 rpm more than most big 2 stroke outboards. 4 stroke rev much higher but they do not like the heavy loads like a 2 stroke, i have seen 12v71 2 stroke detroit diesels start some pretty heavy loads on a generator.
I've been researching for the perfect bike for me for the past 2 months just came across your channel and solidified my options yz 250 2smoke will be In my garage real soon can't wait to see the rest of the vids
Love your vidoes!!!! They just keep getting better!
Carson Jensen Thanks for watching.
i was a 4 stroke guy and then got on a 2 stroke and that week i put my 4 stroke up for sale and got a 2 stroke let me just say im never turning back
do u ride motocross
Great video! :)
I have a 1982 CR480r that my grandfather bought brand new. this bike has been ported and worked on and ridden hard since the year it was purchased. it has seen dunes, trails, and gnarly hillclimbs. i have no idea how many hours on it, but it is STILL on the original top end and STILL has great compression. the combination of the big motor that can be lugged in the lower RPM's, the low redline, the low compression ratio, and the simplicity of the old school, air cooled, non-power valve bike have all made it nearly maintinance (and trouble) free!
EreksonJ You should hold onto that bike forever. Thanks for sharing
It's probably cuz people took pride in what they built back then. Now they just try and get them out as fast as they can lol. I'd keep that bike cleaned up and in good condition though. Worth some big money one day.
4 stroke was actually created first
Ye that's a bad thing cause they realized they could do better and made the 2 stroke engine in 1875 i think
@@topspeed902 Truth be told, 4 stroke is the better engine. And I have a 2 stroke. Yes, 2 strokes are cheap to maintain and light, but 4 strokes are still pretty cheap to maintain as well. Yes, they have more moving parts but a forced oil lubrication system means that those parts last 10x longer than they would if lubricated like a 2 stroke. Then you get better power and longer gearing allowing you to move slower than a 2 stroke with similar gearing could. Not rev lower, but move slower none the less.
2 stroke bike set up to do 30km/h in 1st and a 4 stroke set up to do 30km/h in 1st. The 4 stroke has an extra 4000rpm, meaning that while peak to peak speed is equal when you get near idle the 4 stroke is able to go slower and not stall. 2 strokes are great but overhyped.
@@jacobvanhalteren7452 bro good for you
@@jacobvanhalteren7452 you say that like it's a fact. 2 and 4 strokes both have there applications their is no "better" engine. If you're doing hard enduro the 4 stroke is inferior and 80% of top riders are riding 2t however cut across to MX and the 4 stroke reigns supreme.
The 2 strokes have had a lack of development due to reg changes that killed the enthusiasm and desire for them in MX where as enduro and hard enduro never moved away from them and they are still competitive if not dominant. You only have to look at bikes where they have had similar development to the 4 strokes like the 300exc essentially rides like a 4 stroke with better power output.
Naivity shows when people comment on the 4t vs 2t argument. There is no argument they're both fantastic variants you just happen to prefer riding one of them.
Same guy invented both. 4 strokes first then realized he could do better and invented the 2 stroke. 😆
It's fine for you to have your opinion on which you like better, but it's misleading to title the video "4stroke vs 2stroke" when you really just bash 4 strokes and don't even bring up most of their benefits. The video should be labeled "Why we think 2 stroke is better than 4 stroke". One the main benefits of 4 strokes is fuel efficiency which can mean a great deal on long rides with nowhere to refuel.
Taylor A. Fair enough, although if we watch both videos in this serious, you'll hear us call 4 strokes amazing machines. Thanks watching though.
Can your 4 stroke burn its own oil, i have made them do this as i fiiled them with 2 stroke oils anyways. 4 strokes rev higher though i give them though but they do not like heavy shock loads and lugging.
Oh yeah prove it. most 250 stroke rev 13500 rpm while 250 2 stroke tops at 8500 rpm. 2 stroke produce much more power at low revved, i work on a boat with 8v71 2 strokes that start a heavy load at 1200 rpms NA and i doubt a 4 stroke the same size can match that. Whats so great about 4 stroke anyways they can rev higher i give them that but they have there place 4 stroke make a nice sound though thats all they are good for. lets see feed one on 50:1 synthetic only and watch survive. im good at things self destruct. I fill 4 strokes with tcw3 and rev the hell out of them.hehe Im good at destroying 4 strokes!
Desert tank. That’s all that needs to be said but I see where you coming from
Ive set up my 2strokes to not use gas fast without losing power so thats false and ive owned 2 and 4 I'm not hating on anything any dirt bike works but don't ride electric😂
"we are NOT talking about motocross or supercross"
-immediately starts talking about motocross and supercross
lol I caught that as well.
Awesome video man
Good info . Thanks 😎
You convinced me to get a 2 stroke bro.
Welcome to the best life my friend
@trav3510 trav3510 why does it matter?
Absolutely true. What an amazing video. My friends rides a four stroke and I have both 2001 Yamaha YZ250 and 2009 Yamaha YZF450 . I always bring my yz250 two stroke. My friends making fun of me. It’s so much lighter reliable I just never will give up my two stroke and I love the smell of the smoking premixed oil .
You guys made me decide on a 2-stroke. I was undecided on witch one would cost me less and not as much work. Thanks you!!
+DJ Stover Glad to help.
Great video! This helped so much! :)
Maybe they should of told everyone about the amount of gas you go through on a 2 stroke compared to the four. Within 2 years you can rebuild a four stroke with the cost savings compared to a 2 stroke. I put 400 hours on my four stroke without having to do any adjustments except a chain. These guys are either biased or paid to push 2 strokes.
100% correct!
Whats not mentioned is the spluttery rough feeling when driving steadily between trails etc and of course the oil costs, carb tuning (older models) and the smoke you breath in when riding behind one !
I mean, you're talking what, 5 mpg less. My full rebuild for my 4 stroke was $2500 in parts. vs. my 2 strokes, which is dirt cheap to rebuild. I'll pay a little more in gas if that means I don't have to worry about valves, overheating, timing chains, and more oil changes.
@@nickg2431 Right. One is for a man, and the other...
@@Mike-lt6sj for a smarter man...
tbh, I feel this video is a little biased, I love both 2 and 4 but honestly it's a different riding style, 4 strokes have the better low end power and don't need to be revved up to the same rpms as a 2 to keep it within a power band, that was always my personal dislike towards a 2 stroke is you had to keep it in the power band where with the type of riding I tend to do, it's a lot harder to do this. in my opinion there is no better engine type, they're just different engines for different styles of riding
Depends on the 2 stroke. Some of them have a lot of low end and are more resistant to stalling than 4 strokes.
4 stroke rev much higher even though they dont sound like it
great series
HALFBREEDMUGEN Thanks for watching!
Awesome vid, it's kinda like deja vu of the past 10+ years of my arguments with my 4 stroke riding buddies. I did manage to convert 4 of them to 2 strokes.
+Jason Jaeger Right on. Keep fighting the good fight.
2t = simpler, cheaper, more overall power
4t = easier to ride, more torque
Right?
2 stroke is way easier to ride bro lol.lighter,no engine break.
Jon Smith dude 2 strokes are more jumpy to ride.
Modern 2-stroke enduro bike will bang to the bottom, where a 4-stroke will chuff, and flame out.
2 stroke for slow enduro. 4 stroke for fast motocross
If I had a choice, I'd be on a 2 stroke (I don't have a choice cause my local yamaha dealer is my best customer. Have to buy from them) but I have put nearly 8 thousand kilometers on my 2014 WR450 (5000 of them supermoto the rest enduro) all I have done is very regular oil changes and valves every 2 thousand. That's a lot of K's and no rebuild. As much power as the day I bought it.
I love my WR
Luke Morphett WR is a great bike. I spent some quality time on the old 426. It was a beast.
Sam KTM I had one of those baby's too back in the day. I think either way you are gonna be happy. As long as you're riding.
You do have a choice, Yamaha 250X.
I have ridden street bikes majority of my life and just recently picked up a dual sport. What the dual sport has done is given me a beginners look at off road and enduro riding. With that said I have the urge to buy a dedicated off road bike and probably looking at a beta 300. Your video covering maintenence has definitely got my attention as want to ride not wrench. Also the BCM hats 👍👍👍
This video is quite unbiased. Quite rare to see in this debate. Good job.
Great segment guys..I was considering the move to a 4-stroke, think i will stay with the 2-stroke for the fun and wow factor... my WR200R is a good fit for me..and that is what you guys are really emphasizing..
:)
+Dirt Bike Channel f= forest f= four stroke t= track t= two stroke
+james Ilisan t= trails t= track
+Jacob Whitesell t= two stroke
Wait till he creates a new video if he does because this ones not fair on benefits. Some people like 2 stroke more than 4 stroke vice versa.
LONG LIVE THE TWO STROKE!!!
But I heard the 2 stroke engine are banned. As they create more pollution. Is it true?
2 stroke is gods motor. look at lightning, it fires on every stroke and delivers tremendous power. Just emagine a 2 stroke that is pulsed plasma powered powered with a ball lightning exploding inside it.
DFI 2 strokes can be very clean. BTW Fairbanks Morse just came out with a new giant opposed piston 2 stroke thats over 5000hp and can meet tier 4 emissions and it can go over 40000 hrs between overhauls. EMD 645 and 710 2 stroke can run run a long time as well detroit diesel 2 strokes. Most 4 strokes in cars are high revving disposable crap anyways. Even the DFI rotax 850 and outboards have come a long way and are much cleaner than all this 4 joke crap. One thing a 4 joke does is that it can rev much higher and go faster on a strait away but throw a heavy load on it like a generator or climb a hill and a 2 stroke has much faster torque rise. I have seen some 12v71 2 stroke powered generators start some pretty heavy loads and they come right up.
This is a great conversation to get into.
Nice vid.Im going to be purchasing a dirt bike sometime this year, still torn between two and four but kinda leaning toward a rm250 after watching this vid
I learned to ride on an Xr80 when I was a kid. After which I went back and forth between 2 and 4 strokes. My last 2 bikes were both 2 strokes YZ and RM250. I love the power 2 strokes have. I am now looking to buy a new YZ250...
Dt0x75 I have been riding a 2014 KTM 350 (4 stroke) the past few weeks along side my 300 two stroke. I've been testing out the four stroke and doing different drills and then comparing it to the two-stroke. I can honestly tell you that I just have more "fun" on the 2 stroke. It constantly makes me smile and giggle in my helmet. Isn't that what it's all about?
Yea, thats pretty much the same thing I did when I was younger. I just had a lot more fun on a 2 stroke. I guess you can say I was indoctrinated into preferring 2 strokes because as a kid I lived at the bottom of a Mt in NY and I would wake up every morning to the sound of 2 strokes coming from the Mt. I loved listening to it...lol
i like 2 and 4 strokes ..and KX500 amazin fun.
+ArmathuX Same.
*scary fun
+Howard is a Bell End WHO ARE YOU to say THINGS LIKE THAT??? .....
How dare you.
Next you’ll tell us you don’t choose “sides” in the US “electoral” process.
helped me alot to see which bike is better thank u :D
Saga Squad Thanks for supporting the channel.
As a confirmed 2-stroke guy, I loved your opening statement. Even at 70+ years of age I still love the rush of a 2-stroke. There's nothing like the smell of bean oil in the morning air.......
They should make 3 stroke so No problème
craspouille4 They have but it’s technically a rotary.
@@Mr410sg rotary dirt bike?...
This wasn’t really a 4 stroke vs 2 stroke, this is more like a why 2 strokes are better than 4 strokes
4 strokes will crap on 2 strokes when it comes to motocross
@trav3510 trav3510 I ride a husaberg te300 but I did start riding on a ktm 250sxf and I beat all the 2 strokes I also beat my mates riding a honda Honda 150f
@trav3510 trav3510 what do you ride
I have a 2 stroke motorcycle that was built back in 1988 the piston was changed only 1 time, around 10 years ago and it stil works to this day whit realy little maintence (I have to clean the carburetor sometimes).
Good points guys.👍
People were so concerned with the burnt castor oil coming out of the tail pipes on 2strokes that they forgot that a Four stroke has to burn more gas just to make up for the parasitic drag associated with the cams, valves, springs pumps, cam chains not including the extra weight and extra displacement in order to keep up.
well said 👍👍👍
+spliffsperlunk Engineers knew way back when that 2 strokes were ideal race motors and that 4's were trail bike motors. But that is a bygone era when men and women knew which bathrooms to use too.
4 strokes burn less gas.
I really like your videos and
LONG LIVE 2 STROKES !!!!!
jar budd Thanks Jar! We've got to help keep them alive by letting the bike makers know we want them to stay alive. Thank goodness KTM, Husky, and Beta know 2 strokes are important.
dont forget kawis!
My kdx220r will kick your 450's ASS!
Very good points brought up. I like the video. I switched to a four stroke when I got into motocross. It was awesome! But like you said, very expensive. Now I got out of motocross, and back into off road. I'm back on a 2 stroke. It is my preference for off road for all the reasons you bring up, and many more. Thanks for the videos! I think it is good for or sport!
Jayson Rowley Yeah, we need to get the word out about 2 stroke. KTM, Husky, and Beta have awesome 2 strokes. I'd love it if we could get Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki to take note and start building 2 strokes again. Yamaha would have the easiest route because they still have their YZ 250 in production. A few mods on that bike (different gearing, flywheel, 18 inch rear tire, skid plate, etc...) and it would be a good off road option IMO. They could even offer a 300 version with very little effort if they wanted to.
Couldn't agree more!
I agree with most of the video, except for when your friend said that on 4 strokes you have to adjust the valves a lot. My dad has had a 2009 honda 250x and he hasn't adjusted the valves much. He's had it since 2011 . But all in all, great video. Really helped!
Another interesting fact is bottom end torque. My buddy has a 2010 crf250r that has hot cams stage 2, high compression piston, just off the top of my head, his bike is built let me just say this. I have a 2001 cr250r with a full Fmf system with fatty and turbinecore 2, boyesen reeds, and 13-48 gearing. We have done several 5th and 4th gear pulls going wide open from just above idle. We are always dead even for the first 100ft but when the power comes in on my 2 stroke it takes off. His gearing is stock.
MrWalkerds Very cool comparison. Thanks for sharing.
Keep fighting the good fight.
+2
Great video man (and a high 5 for making a playlist). I don't want to say to much until I see the entire series, but my reasoning for going 4 stroke was #1. The DualSport, it's much easier to plate a 4 stroke in any state. #2. Road riding. Now I've never ridden a two stroke, but I've talked to a few guys that own them and they all tell me the same thing. Don't ride a 2 stroke on the road for long, it just isn't built for it. #3. The distance. When I ride on the weekends I do almost 200mi days. Exactly how many tanks of mix would that take me compared to 1 4gal tank on my DRZ? So I think it really all depends on the rider, type of riding and end goal. Great video so far and I'm looking forward to the rest. Subbed.
+ColoradoDualSport couldn't said better!!! big thumbs up! everyone buy what they like, not because they are pussies or lazy, but because people like, we all do it for fun, so people hear this guy and stop discussing about 2 stroke guys being the top guys and 4 stroke pussies, we don't want to make motocross/enduro shity as those discussions between hondas/vw and seats, let's just enjoy life
Thank you! Can't wait for the next part. I've been thinking about converting to a 2 smoker.
Matthew G You should make the jump and don't look back.
Matthew G You won't regret it!
Matthew G dude do it.. i just switched got me a 06 cr250 and let me tell you everytime i start it up and ride it its better then heroin.
Brady Plourde You certainly take the cake for the best comment of the week!
Two stroke may preform better, but i have to say i like the 4-stroke sound a lot better, the two stroke sounds like a fly hitting a screen door tbh.
From 1:00 it was clear to me. 2 stroke!
Rider Mark They are amazing machines, these 300 2 strokes.
@dirt bike channel dude everyone loves the KTM 300! It’s the best bike ever made! So I absolutely see why you love 2 strokes so much! The 300 is the baddest of the bad ass! I love it, but you have to consider these other bikes. See the KTM 300xc will always be the best offroad machine ever made, but what if we didn’t have a KTM 300, and say we were comparing a Yamaha 250yz to a KTM 350xcf, in that case the concept is completely different and whether you can say which one’s better, depends if you’ve rode both of them in some of the gnarliest terrain! I would appreciate it SO MUCH! And i think others will love it to, if possibly you made another video re-creating the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke because i was quite triggered when watching because i heard no real good benefits of the 4 stroke even though there are tons! It hurt watching this video. Please do another one!
Great video. I bought into the hype and have been riding a 4 stroke for the last 15 years just to realize I had way more fun on a 2 stroke..A YZ250X will soon be a part of my life.
I love em both! But... I agree with the maintenance aspect. I bought a very slightly used 2014 KTM 300 XC in 2015. I just did a piston (piston B to replace original piston) and rings at about 160 hours. It was very easy to do. I also had to replace the transmission side crank seal a couple of years ago, and again, it was pretty easy. When I did my top end recently I also checked the crank play which was non existent. The cylinder still had the factory cross hatch machine marks too. I don't have the experience to do a top end on a modern 4 stroke. The maintenance costs on a modern 4 stroke when, and if needed, are very high compared to a 2 stroke.
many motocross events are actually open class so you can run a 500cc two stroke if you want(and i dearly love the cr and kx500s) but your going to lose and the four stroke gets better traction and like this guy says they hit lower and rev higher...200 hours or even 150 on a two stroke and you must be really tolerant of poor running conditions...but my problem with two stoke is i cant use it for this distances we travel out here in the west, my 300 can go up to 130 miles and even at that have been close to running out of fuel
2 strokes for life. I've ridden a 2010 rmz450 and a 2007 crf450r and I still like my 2003 cr250r better. For one its way lighter, and when that power valve opens up there's only two speeds there's first gear then holy sh!t.
shallnot beinfringed I like those 2 speeds :)
Interesting video topic, thanks.
I've been riding a KTM250exc 1997 2 stroke for a couple of decades and it's still a really good bike and cheap to maintain.
I tend to short shift it a lot as it's got fairly reasonable bottom end and I'm usually at the pointy end of the riders.
Because I ride like this I'll get an easy 200 hrs before rebuilding the top end and that's a job that takes about an hour on a 2 stroke, so that's all good too.
Also good vid really opens people's eyes about what bike they want
Great video as usual! After riding 450's off road for 10 years, I returned to a 250 2 stroke about a year ago. I have no regrets other than being a little bored not being out in the garage working on bikes all the time! I agree that the 4 stroke is making our sport inaccessible or not economically viable for alot of people. John Doe decides he wants to get into dirt bikes, his buddy rides a 450 so he goes and buys the same thing. No idea on how to maintain it, doesn't realize that the 250/450 4 strokes are essentially high maintenance race motors, blows it up then sells the rolling chassis at a loss and/or defaults on loan. Declares, "I am getting out of dirt biking, it's too damn expensive!" Guess he could have used it for a downhill only mountain bike!
MrHelipilot67 well put. Thanks for your input
Ahaha, the bias here is killing me.
"$1500-$2200 for a 4T top-end VS $70 for a piston for a two stroke"
Try $338 for a top-end rebuild kit from KTM for a 500 exc, the 2T kits aren't much cheaper.
surg23 Thanks for watching. This isn't all smoke and mirrors. I have bought pistons for my 2ts. $50-70 bucks, along with a $10 gasket kit. That is all you need. Look it up. As for the 4ts, this is if you need you have your valves re-ground and the head milled flat again. I called around to multiple shops. Again, your experience may vary.
I have already googled the prices. the 2T kit's are only 15% cheaper.
Something I am missing ?
I think the biggest cost difference is in paying a shop to rebuild a 4T. Comparing the cost of parts is similar, 2T piston around $80-120 and 4T piston around $120-220.(depending on brand). But if you have to do a complete rebuild on a 4T then you have to look at things like the cam chain, valves where a 2T only has the piston.
Because of the simplicity of the 2T motor it is fairly easy for a DIY like myself to do the labor so the cost is just for the piston and gaskets. With the complexities and more moving parts(even if it's just replacing the piston you have to deal with taking off and putting back on the cam chain and valves then getting the timing right) of a 4T engine, people are more prone to paying a shop to do it and they charge about twice the hours to do a 4T vs a 2T.
So it's really just paying a shop to do the work and the extra parts that make a 4T more expensive.
338 dollar is only for piston and gasket, on 4 stroke you also have 4 of those pesky titanium valves costing about 280 dollars total + the specialized work of re-seating (lapping) the valve seats. But I have heard that you at least wear out one piston before you need to do valve replacement? I can not seem to find the manual for my EXC 500 to check... But at about the same hours you talk about valve replacement on 4 stroke you instead have the replacement of all the berings in the bottom of a 2 stroke and that ain`t sheep or easy to do. They seems to forget about that...
I just rebuild the top end on my 4 stroke costed $450 for new piston 2mm over , cylinder Bored and plated, and gaskets. no labor because did it myself. and for most 4 strokes you can buy stainless steel valves for $100-140 total.stainless steel valves also tend to need to be shimmed less. in the end it all costs about the same. just ride whatever you prefer
2 stroke for life!!! Thanks for the video.
I just rebuilt my 450 cost me 1500 its just insane the price
my bike now i ride all the time now is my 2014 yz 250 and i keep up easily with 450 4 stroke dirt bike and it so much fun. I would like to thank you for videos educating people correct info with the pro and cons is good to pick the right bike for you
To me it's simple 2 strokes are the way to go I got the 2017 ktm 150sx which is really fast and really light 192 pounds and was cheap 6800 out the door compare that to a 450 and there like 10,000 out the door so that 3,200$ I can spend on the extra gas and oil and top ends and anything else and I really enjoy riding the 2 stroke really fun and love the sound so for me it just makes sence that the 2 stroke is the way to go but I still ride 4 stokes to because I have a 450 dual sport for the road and hit up the trails or beach with so both is the real winner
Rock on.
+ 2stroke sound amazing
Cody sansbury Are you saying a 150 pretty much has 450 power? If not the comparison is flawed.
MX127 I bought a yz250f in 06 otd for $5k USD. I threw in cams, jets, fmf megabomb, vortex cdi, and a 13:1 piston. Was 5lbs heavier than my buds 02 cr250, out ran it in every gear, had 20mph more on the top end, and drank far less gas. He bought a tuned up wr450 forcing me to buy a ktm 450. That yzf cost less than your 2 stroke in total, and when I sold it I made $100 in total after 2 years, just oil changes, and 7000 miles of desert riding.
Tell me how 4 strokes are expensive. It's called laziness. Learn to deal, learn to shop. I was a kid then and had to. Now that I have more money I'm not as aggressive but whatever.
MX127 you realize the KTM 300 vs 500 is a matter of a few hundred dollars, not thousands. Gas and oil is far more expensive on the 2 strokes, and they have lower resale value.
I can buy a 50cc 4 stroke, should I compare that to your 450 enduro? NO
Technicly, God handed us the 4 stroke first and we made the 2 stroke out of it, 4 strokes were made in 1876 and 2 strokes where made in 1879.
I just watched your video and I really love the old Yamaha t t 500 it was a work horse. On long off road rides . I was beat the shocks sucked But that’s all we had back in 1975
As far as when to change the piston depends on the size of the piston as well as how hard you ride in what temp. The bigger the piston the longer / more hours before a new piston is needed..300 2 stroke or even the 380cc 2 stroke can go for a long time before a new piston is needed provided the gear oils have been changed often..
My dad has a 1999 cr250 and it still runs like brand new
+Ty Sayer then the piston shatters ha
+David F (dtf96) if your piston shatters, you are gonna have a bad time haha
+David F (dtf96) If you wait until the piston shatters you're doing it wrong. I love 2 strokes, the sound, the smell, the power and they are easy to maintain and rebuild, takes like 10 minutes to change the piston lol maybe even less :P
+David F (dtf96) How would you know it's about to shatter? Did the bike have less power then?
+Ty Sayer yeah my 1997 Cr250, even tho in that year the frame is shit. the damn thing runs just as good as a new 250 2 stroke. ive completely redone the 97, from the ground up. And it is just amazing
two strokes have more top end power four stokes have more bottom end
Not true at all.....unless your comparing 250 2 vs 450 4. The 4 strokes rev higher than a 250 2 stroke and also make peak power at higher rpm lol. Comparable cc the 2 stroke makes more low and high.
2strokes have more power 4strokes have more torque
For rocking the BCM hat I've got nothing but respect.
love the videos man, sweet 300 too.
Robert Warren Thanks Robert. Are you riding a 300 too?
Dirt Bike Channel nah, i have a kdx220 bored out with all the goodies. 300 will be my next purchase when my power lineman school ends in august!!
Very cool. Let us know when you finally get it!
Your missing the whole point of the 4 stroke conversion. I'm glad you enjoy 2 strokes but your heavily biased.
What is it then
2 stroke roule but i have a 1998 trx250 recon (4 stroke) and beat the shit out of it and it has never failed.
i just feel like 4 strokes are more reliable but when they blow they blow the bank.
that's an old 4 stroke were talking about a new ones right now
The simplicity of a two stroke is amazing. I've always been a fan of YZ250's and have owned four so far. I tried a '99 YZ400F back in the day and the valves constantly needed shimmed, and it was a pain to start even with an auto decompression cam which cost about $300.
I recently tried a friends KTM 500 XC-W which had over 400 hours on the original parts. It was a blast to ride and I was looking for a bike I could get plated, so I pulled the trigger on a 2016 KTM 500 EXC. Out here we might start our rides in the morning at 36F/3,000ft, and end up at 80F/9000ft. The fuel injection is amazing and I'm not always jetting or adding/removing my flywheel weight for the track/trails, and the e-start is amazing. Riding is just a lot more enjoyable now, which unless you are a factory rider I think that is what's most important at the end of the day.
There is definitely no argument when it comes to rebuild costs, however. Only at 70 hours now, so I might be changing my tune when it comes time for a top end.
I owned several KDX-200s during the 80's, and they were hammers. I also had an 84 Husky WR-250, and I seized it tight at 90mph on a logging road. Totally locked the rear wheel. I let it cool down 20 minutes and rode away. Never tore it down. Sold it 3 years later, still running good, still same piston and rings!
a 4 stroke is a torque king. in a race where there are more turns and jumps the 4 stroke is king for easier control and the torque it puts out. if it's a long straight track then the 2 stroke is king. 4 strokes last longer and are stronger engines. av2:stroke needs taken apart and looked at alot more than a 4 stroke. I own both and that's the hard facts
and if your working on a four stroke all the time you should switch brands
Ive got over 450 hours om my ktm 300 and just had it at ktm northwest for a replace everything you see necessary visit and i left with a $250 bill. just labor and a gasket. He wouldnt even put in rings. Said it didnt need them!!!! I also have a 07 525 xcg. I highly doubt ill get those hrs without $1000's invested. But we'll see.
David Pellum David, can we turn your comment into a BILLBOARD and stick it at the entrance to every state in the US??!! Well done. Well done.
David Pellum amazing
Great video explanation! Just confirms my purchase of my 14 ktm 300 xc! Freaking love my bike! awesome power and torque down low. Millville 2 tire rocks as well.
TJ Tharp The 300 XC will be my next bike. Right now, I'm riding the 300 XC-W, and we just picked up a 350 XC-F for testing. I really like the 4CS forks on that XC-F, I'd just like to have the 300 smoker powering it.
Dirt Bike Channel It will not disappoint you! mods i have done, are to update the leaky clutch cover gasket (aluminum coated gasket), thats a must. Link guard installed, EE guards, and revalves on the forks and shock, I love the link vs the pds, seems smoother and 4cs whens its valved right is wonderful. Ill probably NEVER GET RID OF THIS BIKE!
We'll talk about the advantages of 4 strokes and just make out the owners are lazy
And yet you always have to adjust valves, timing etc.
a little bias my friend, AND I HAVE A 2 STROKE
+Erit 71 Keep watching and we give a fair shake to both engines. I own them both and have owned both for years.
Aight
Luke Marvenko hes not being biased hes owned more then enough 4 strokes , if they were better for off road im sure he would be riding them all the time, hes just speaking the truth , 2 strokes are better for off road because it all comes down to power to weight, u want ur bike to be really powerfull and to be light as possible, simple as that, and its as simple as owning a 2 stroke..
2Wheels 4Life power to weight is not what's best for off road. So I should take a Ducati panigale with its 205hp and 420lbs to erzberg? Idiot.
Also 450s have much better power to weight. 12 extra hp for 15 lbs. That's 25% more power for 3.7% more weight with a rider.
He already conceded 4s traction advantage. So you get better power, better power to weight, better traction, better range, lower environmental impact, better engine longevity, and 4% more overall weight.
Lol. Not even close. 4 strokes are far better at anything that doesn't require the lightest weight possible. Even the 300 2 stroke can't make the same power as the KTM 450 exc motor out of the box. The KTM 350 sxf motor makes 54hp while the 300 makes 51hp on the same magazine dyno meaning the 350 makes 1hp per 6.5cc vs the 6cc of the 300.
Firestarter yes ur 4 stroke might be better power to weight, but power to weight also means as light as possible , there for a 450 is not lighter then a 250 2 stroke or 300 , when u drop ur bike or have to pull it up something ull understand u wouldnt want a 4 stroke and 2 stroke are way more flickable and lug better in slower technical riding, idiot. now fuck off that comment is old and i dont even give a shit what u think.
Ticking time bomb... absoultly the most accurate statement iv heard this year,seen it multiple times,iam a 4 stroke guy,I last week swapped from a ktm 450 to a sherco 300 2t and wow world apart on enduro and hard enduro.
Awesome videos I have a crf 230 f I want to get a 250 xc they are awesome bikes
lol just watched the first minute of this video and can already tell it's bias -_-
+ArtificialImPulse If you watch all 6 parts, you'd have a better idea of what we are talking about.
***** lol just sick of everyone calling 4 stroke riders pussies
+Old Geek Thanks for actually listening and paying attention to what the series is all about. People need to take their emotions out of this and look at things from an objective point of view. By the end of the 6 part series, we tried to give both motors a fair shake. Both 4t and 2t are great. Some guys will prefer 4t and other will like 2t. That is okay. Just ride what makes you smile more.
+Old Geek Sounds like you'd fit in really well in the circles I'm mostly riding in :) Thanks for the contributions you are making.
***** its just that these kind of videos is what gets the two stroke riders pitchforks and start attacking 4 stroke riders in the comments
I'm just glad I was able to get a 700cc 4 Stroke ATV so that it's as fast as my old 250cc 2 stroke ATC's were... :) I honestly can't even stand the sound of a race with all four stroke bikes. *It sounds like a bathroom full of people the day after a Taco Bell Binge.*
But that being said, I'm glad my brand new Raptor is a 4 stroke. It will be easy to drive super slow through grown in trails with no worries of loading up. But nothing beats the feeling of coming on the pipe on a 2 stroke! And the sound.....
brett248vista That is pretty funny. Taco Bell Binge!
Dirt Bike Channel Thanks! And once you associate the two... You will never be able to listen to a 4 stroke MX the same way again! :D You're Welcome!
Seriously.
Dirt Bike Channel :D
solid topic!
BCabral43 Stay tuned for more. Going to try to put out at least 3 parts on this one.
my family has ridden since they were teens, I started when I was 6. They've always bought 4 strokes and yesterday just bought a 2stroke
u should try a yamaha way better than ktm
+doom421000 i owned a 2002 yz250f awsome bike ! but i thought KTM are better then Yamaha ? please tell me in great detail why Yamaha is better then KTM ? or anyone here please
+savagex466 unmatched reliability and fit finish
+doom421000 Gonna say, I own both. KTM. Outside of the E-start sucking, KTM hands down.
ktm hands down eh ? i loved my 02 yz 250f very reliable but iv always been drawn to the ktm they come with good extras and i hear great things about em i hate how the 250 xc is ONLY electric start that sucks man if it dont work alot im all about reliabilty fuck my spelling haha not sure if id be a fan of the wide transmisons but those modles have both kick start and e start witch is awsome !
doom421000 I got an 02' yamaha yz85 2 stroke
2 strokes are for races and 4 strokes are for driving around
Silver Ballerftwk Well put :)
Props for the BCM hat!!!!
fire every time!
Bias.
Title should've been "Why 4 Strokes Sucks". Its just so bias.
+Zack Stark My guess is that you don't have much time on a modern big bore 2 stroke and that you didn't watch all 6 parts to this series.
Your guess is a hit and miss, I do spend a little time on 2 strokes but I do get and feel the difference. I watched up to episode 5 where tides finally began to turn, but still its is still pretty bias. Don't get me wrong as a 4 stroke fanboy, 2 stroke are good,light, jump and kicks like a mule. But in my opinion its a fuel devouring machine as fuel constantly running which makes its stalls less easier than 4 strokes.(opinion on episode 3 or 4 I think)
I have a 1978 dt175 enduro bike. It has fun power and it only had to be rebuilt once because it seized up from sitting for a few years
I put 30inch monster may hams on it. zeta Enduro hand guards. did some clutch work and switched to a dayco xtx belt. belt really noticeable gain. also snorkled the clutches. it hauls ass but I miss my kx.
such a fanboy video this makes me laugh... I have personally owned a ktm 300 two stroke and now have a ktm 450 four stroke and prefer the four stroke any day.
And that is totally fine.