Use Code "TOMMO" to get $5 off for your first #Sakuraco box through this link: team.sakura.co/MrTommo2304 and #TokyoTreat box through this link: team.tokyotreat.com/MrTommo2304 Did Harribel live up to the title of 3rd Espada in your opinion? Would Ulquiorra or even Nnoitra have been more deserving? Let me know your thoughts down below!
I'm always curious as to why you sometimes choose to take into acount non-diagetic elements to make an argument and sometimes you don't. To clarify, I don't mean it as a criticism, it's a genuine question because I'm interested on what you would have to say about it. For instance, when you bring up the fact that Ulquiorra has more screen time since he is an imediate antagonist to Ichigo, which results in him being more well developed in terms of personality, abilities etc, why not give the same treatment to the subject of the video? You went through the diagetic reasons that make Harribel look how she looks in the story, why not touch on some of the elements off-story that could have contributed to her being written like that as well? I know it would be speculative, but what isn't? I'd like to hear your opinions on stuff like that, since you know so much about Bleach and what was going on at the time Kubo was writing/publishing the chapters. Also! I was expecting you to do one of your "What if?" sections in this video, wondering out loud how it could have gone differently, which powers you would have given her, what solutions she could have come up with when Hitsugaya cornered her and stuff like that. I like it a lot when we get to see your ideas (and drawings!). I also wonder a lot about how I would "fix" Bleach if I could, so those bits of your videos always feel like the conversations I have with my friends about the series, which is nice.
By pure vibes, I think Harribel is fine where she's at, and I feel her abilities are probably more impressive than we actually saw. Ulquiorra is a bad fit for 3rd in my opinion because it requires an investment in the hierarchy and a loyalty he doesn't really have.
@@jonasfagundes8136 Yeah. In this case, so much of it is wrapped in Kubo's writing decisions that it feels a bit evasive not to directly name and blame him.
@@MrGksarathy I don’t like to call it blame, since most of the circumstances are unknown and likely not under his control, but his writing for sure is a factor. Character popularity factors in a lot of how artists at shounen jump used to write back then (idk if it’s still like that) and maybe thats even why Kubo paired Hitsugaya with Harribel, to offset the popularity of one with the other’s. As Tom said, they were not the most interesting of match ups in terms of powers after all, so maybe that’s a reason?
-Hallibel : Ok so in base form i'm stronger than Bankai Hitsugaya ? -Kubo : Yes -Hallibel : ok then why do i use resurreccion ? -Kubo : to win even faster -Hallibel : Ok make sense. I was already stronger, resurreccion make you 5 to 10 time stronger, which mean i win in what... 2sec ? -Kubo : 1sec -Hallibel : ok great, whos my next opponent ? -Kubo : actually hes not dead because he used this ice clone ability -Hallibel : Mmmmmok... can he do it again ? -Kubo : No he can use it only once. -Hallibel : Then i will just OS him again in 1sec, no big deal -Kubo : No, now you lose the fight -Hallibel : Bro what ?
I always thought taking a note from Naruto here would’ve been perfect. Sasori as part of his puppet body has high pressure water cannons built into his palms that can cut through rock with ease and by extension much more. Harribel with something like this that has maybe a Bleach flair like interacting with Reiatsu.
@@ActivateMysticMine Heck, Kisame would have been a good blueprint for her because he is one of the hardest non-Uchiha, Tailed Beast, or Ohtsutsuki antagonist. Harribel even shares a shark theme with him.
Here's my theory; Harribel is a water user who survived in Hueco Mundo. Hueco Mundo is a desert. This would shape her fighting style. She can generate water on her own, but it takes time. So her go to tactic is to stall a fight out until the battlefield suits her. Every time she launches an attack, it shifts things in her favor. Hitsyaga mentioned it. He thought she was waiting for the battlefield to change before unleashing her ultimate attack. Only he shows that unlike her, he doesn't have to wait, and summons storm clouds. You were correct. She did very well early on. Then she saw Yamamoto scorch her Fraccion. She says she's going to get revenge on him, and to that end...she's going to need *alot* of water. And Hitsugaya is the perfect opponent for her. His attacks will add fuel to her own. He will add water to the landscape until the point there is more than enough for her to truly unleash her power. She was using him.
Very interesting theory. I gotta say i like it. It just would suck if all her fights with opponents on, or around her level would essencially be able to take her out very quickly if everything was depending on her changing the battlefield. Its a pretty monumental weakness. 😅
That's great in universe explanation but there's a key difference between harribel and the other espada that impacts why she's not written to be more impressive.... (I'll let you guess)
One of my biggest issues is that Toshiro was the one who said that Vasto Lordes were stronger than Captain Class Shinigami, and yet he was able to defeat a Vasto Lorde ARRANCAR which is way stronger. I always thought it was odd that Kubo picked him to be fighting one of the top 3 Espada since he’s more on the lower end of the Captains. I feel the same for Soi Fon on how she was chosen to fight Barragan.
It also doesn't help her case the fact that her own fracciones did a more impressive display on Fake Karakura with Ayon defeating four lieutenants and forcing Yamamoto to intervene
I personally think that she deserves her spot as 3rd place, but I can see why ppl see her as weaker then ulq. She was defeated by Toshiro, but the fact she took zero damage the whole arc until aizen dealt with her is something ppl forgot. She was dominating the fight against toshiro in base form and even forced him to rush to bankai. Then she goes into resurcion and becomes weaker ? Which was a weird writing choice by Kubo. But even being frozen by Toshiro's then strongest attack, she breaks out by wonderweiss and is seen to have taken no damage. Then she takes on Lisa, Toshiro and Hiyori with no problem. In short: I still think she derserves her spot, it's just that Kubo's writing on her and Toshiro's fight was bad compared to the others
I dont believe Wonderweiss broke her out.. I believe that Wonderweiss's appearance was used as a plot twist to show us all 3 espada were not defeated. If Wonderweiss voice was hard enough to shatter Toshiros Hyoten Hyakkaso, he literally wouldve destroyed everyones eardrums.. Also, Harribel was unscratched when she was out of the ice. She was defeated with no injuries? No, she got out of the ice by herself, just like Starrk and Baraggan dealt with their "moment of defeat" by themselves. And Wonderweiss went to Starrk because he was fighting the 2 strongest captains actively fighting. Shunsui and Ukitake going down just added more to the twist, to make us believe the situation wasnt going to end as easily as that.
It's wild how many people think noitorra is stronger just because he didn't openly resent hallibel even tho we've only seen one scene of them together. And in that scene, noitorra was openly antagonistic of hallibel.
@@ghhbpoloPeople think Nnoitra's stronger than Harribel? Lol, that's silly. It's pretty straightforward that he never challenged her to combat and, thus, wasn't killed because of it. Especially when you consider that Aizen was actively in Hueco Mundo at the time, meaning infighting was likely kept to a minimum.
I don't know....... Nnoitra took on full-power Kenpachi and almost won...... Harribel could barely keep pace with Tōshirō of all people and eventually lost. Ask yourself this.......could Tōshirō defeat Kenpachi?
@@truthspreader1996 toshiro kept up because of plot. Hallibel already blitzed toshiro when she was in her base form. But the plot nerfed her by having released hallibel unable to catch toshiro.
It didn’t help that Halibel was up against someone that perfectly counters her in pretty much every way. She controls water, Toshiro turns that water into ice, etc. Come to think of it, this happened to a lot of the Espada. Zommari, Szyellaparro, and Halibel all got beaten this way. They were all scissors and the soul reapers always had a rock.
this happens in all of bleach. kubo creats a ridiculously OP enemy, they beat on some people initially, to display their strength, then the person with the perfect counter comes along to beat them. or sometimes it just skips to the perfect person. examples: Rukia vs As Nodt. Rukia being able to "temporarily kill" her body to remove the effects of fear Kenpachi vs Tosen. Kenpachi being one of the only characters who can just thug out that much damage. we see how broken tosens bankai is in Turn back the pendulum when he alone as a 5th seat takes down multiple captains and leitenants without them being able to do anything. shinji vs every single one of his opponents. his shikai is objectively one of the most ridiculous in the series and he should be able to win most battles very quickly, but all of his opponents have the perfect counter. 1. be aizen. 2. be a person who direction doesnt matter to (bambietta) soi fons shikai vs every important opponent. she fought BG9. didnt work cuz he just happened to be a robot who she cant penetrate. she fought aizen so ofc it didnt work. she fought barragan so ofc it didnt work there too.
Yeah, and even with that, Toshiro didn’t actually beat her, Aizen did because she was taking too long to win or lose. Toshiro only managed to stall Haribel after stealing her water to make up for his lack of power
@@Zenosama_daishinkan*Nahh broo the thing is the wait for cour 3 is driving me crazy i cant wait for it but until it comes out i need content distraction which tommo helps with*
This fight, this fight right there, Hitsugaya X Halibel, was the moment I came to despise one character. I really, really hate it when the author forces a character to win just because, or dumb down his opponent for no reason OR overpowers a character for him to win. Yes, I'm looking at you too Kenpachi.
I think this fight just should have been longer and get rid of the ice clone, causing hitsugaya to almost die and then get healed by someone else giving haribel that moment of her doing actual damage (however on the other side hitsugaya didn't actually injure haribel once their whole fight as well and he had the hard counter)
The difference with Kenpachi is that you can expect him to turn things around. That's simply how he fights. He loves taking damage as much as he dishes it out. This is set up in the very first appearance of him against Ichigo. Tbh, he could really care less about dodging as long as he doesn't die from the hits lol. With Hitsuguya, he doesn't plan on taking damage of course (like any sane person). We don't have the notion of him being some crazy pyscho with bloodlust. That should've been the end of the fight there. Or hell, they could've made Toshiro lose his arm and portrayed that although he was able to react, he couldn't move fast enough to dodge the swing entirely. We see that all the time in Bleach and I don't think I would've questioned it much if that's what ended up happening. I'd wager Kenpachi would get up even after being cut in half lmao. At least that would be in character. Not the "Body Replacement Jutsu along with the reactions of the Flying Thunder God himself" type display that we saw lol.
Yeah tbh it's less that Harribel doesn't deserve her spot, it's that Hitsugaya didn't deserve to get such an impressive showing after his two previous washes against the arrancar. The whole fight is just awful, neither side really hurting each other until she gets frozen lol.
disagreed, his experience with them makes him more deserved to get a cool feat of one of the top espada. Also he won both those earlier fights, i dont think they're as bad as people remember
What washes? He only struggled against Shawlong due to the Limiter, he had an interrupted scuffle against Yammy, and he nearly killed Luppi if not for outside intervention (Negacion).
@@lordlittletoeq8537 yes, maybe in time. but to just spontaniously be significantly stronger than an opponent who is more than sinificantly stronger than the people you lost to before isn't how that should've played out.
@@lordlittletoeq8537 but it is. it's actually stated in the video and he raises concerns to that exact point. toshiro thus far has shown nothing that would make him on her level. then mid fight he's just suddenly strong enough to fight her head on. fast enough to react and counter her. and then she gets a boost in power and nothing changed.
My thing about harribel is that her most powerful attack during the arc needed time to build up. Her and toshiro talked about how they were waiting for the atmosphere to fill with enough moisture to do their most powerful attack. Segunda etapa ulquiorra doesn't have that problem. He could use lanza del rampago as much as he wanted. That alone is a massive disadvantage to her.
He also cant control it so he can miss. Also Ulq never used any projectile attack aside from Lanza that dwarfs Cascada which she can let off in a lesser amount of time and consistently.
I feel like Ulquiorra’s ranking in the Espada with Segunda Etapa is one of those things that Kubo really needs to clarify in Klub Outside, otherwise I can imagine the debate would go on forever.
I thought he had. He said Segunda Etapa can be achieved by other Arrancar. By default, that means the ranking should be the same if they all activated it.
@@ghhbpolo That doesn’t change their number order though. That’s like comparing one person’s shikai with another person’s bankai. He might be stronger than Harribel in that form, but it doesn’t make him #3. If that’s not the point you’re making, then my mistake.
@@iReiGNxx I know. A big thing I don't get is why people ignore that ulquiorra is only ranked on his 1st release, then use his second release to claim the ranking system is wrong.
Short answer is that Harribel at worst would have been 4th Espalda not factoring in Ulquiorra's Etapa Secondo. She is significantly more versatile or more powerful than anyone else below him. There are two things that must be noted as factors: 1. Hollows are stronger in Hueco Mundo than anywhere else 2. Their rankings were based on their raw power Harribel was a Vasto Lord one of four in the army. Yami is entirely a mystery. Harribel's skill set is honestly pretty good, she has coverage for multiple ranges, has shown the flexibility to be able to use all of the ranges, and most importantly can properly pace herself. This previously stated flexibility is also why ultimately she looks bad here. She doesn't have a plain broken ability or a stupidly high amount of power. She doesn't specialize in any one type of battle either. Hitsuguya was a horrible match up for her because although I would rank both him and Soifon as lower tier captain's power wise he is on the upper end of that scale and as mentioned in the video has a perfect counter. That said she still is in an awkward position because of her lack of specialty that she has issues with the captains.
I personally believe with his Segunda Etapa, Ulquiorra surpasses Harribel. Based on everything we’ve seen, it doesn’t seem like she’s overwhelmingly more powerful than him in 1st Ressurecion. He’s also got more going for him in Segunda Etapa with his insane speed, regeneration and power output. Seeing as how Harribel couldn’t easily overwhelm 2 Visored lieutenants in their Shikai, I can’t imagine Ulquiorra having the same issue considering he speed blitzed and humiliated Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo.
@@thewarrior8497 Just stats tbh. His firepower is to high. Look at Soi fons bankai compared to Ulquiorra's he can for sure outspeed and destroy Barragan from afar. Starrk is hard to say
People tend to forget that spiritual beings get a huge boost in an environment like the Hueco Mundo, with a high density of reishi, while those who fought in FKT were in the human world, not the same, this must be taken into account, but I can't deny that yes, Harribel didn't seem that much threatening anyway. Kubo did it dirty with the most of Espadas, as the shinigami went against their ideal opponent the most of times (we know), the same happened here against Hitsugaya's ice/water control, a big advantage on his side, but the point is indeed "perception", as the other Espadas, at least for a moment, cornered or put in difficulty the opponents, but except for a shocking start, the same didn't happen with Harribel (the anime gave a slightly different impression, but that's it). The problems are the ones you mentioned, certainly a short clash, without incisiveness on her side, but also the fact that her opponent was Hitsugaya. I mean, until that moment (but it can be said, until the last part of TYBW), Toshiro was often regarded as one of the weakest captains, mainly for his feats up to that point (Aizen, Shawlong, Yammi, Luppi). Yeah, he froze former 6 but failed to kill him too, supposely the number 3 should have outmatched him low-diff, but not that much happened, until Hitsugaya's fluctuating management pulled out an overpowered avalanche from the sky to end it. Now, personally, unless to move quickly to avoid it, I don't think that other Espadas (or captains) would have performed better against the same attack, still ending up trapped in the ice, the problem is that there was no before, but not even after. Sorry if I mention a filler, but in the fight against Hitsugaya's reigai, Byakuya ended trapped in the Hyoten Hyokkaso as well, and he managed to break it from the inside on his own. I'm pretty sure that at least Barragan and Starrk would have done the same, but Harribel was disappointing for that too, whether or not she could have escaped without Wonderweiss is up to debate. And after that, her battle went even more in direction, keeping at bay a captain and two vizards lieutenants, but nothing else, until Aizen got bored. She didn't get a chance to shine in TYBW either, defeated by Yhwach (offscreen) and then forgotten, until CFYOW. I mean... damn Kubo. I don't blame that much Harribel, I still believe she deserves her spot in the top4 in terms of raw power, trusting Aizen's judgment, but she doesn't have the most decesive fighting style, and yes, Ulquiorra was more antagonized, but overall he impressed more, even just by looking at his base form and first resurrecciòn (let's ignore segunda etapa, that's also hard to scale), so I don't care about the swap.
Had the Ice Clone thing not happened and Hitsugaya been taken out even temporarily to be healed, she'd have looked better in the long run even if the events played out the same upon his return.
These Espada debates have truly nailed home to me just how arbitrary and vibes based powerscaling is. Harribel may or may not be powerful enough to fill her position, and I lean towards the latter position, but that wasn't her narrative role, so she never showed it. The Hitsugaya fight wasn't the worst, but the two completely stalemated each other, which didn't do Harribel any favors when it came to showcasing her powers, and she was just truly done dirty in the TYBW. I hope Grimm and Nel rescue her in the anime, and she is able to kick some ass, like maybe even rescue Urahara. On a semi-related note, I do like how Kubo is willing to fully commit to the bit when it comes to matchups. Hitsugaya and Harribel can mutually counter each other because water vs ice, so they do. Bazz-B destroys Hitsugaya because heat trumps ice. Uryuu gets beat the tar out of by Haschwalth because the Balance perfect counters the Antithesis. And so on
Yeah and the vibes seem to affect everyone's memory of what actually happen, like people here thinking Toshiro lost his fights with the other arrancar. Honestly though I think powes scaling is too infected from the idea DBZ power levels left in our collective mind.
The problem with Halibel's fight was that she struggled against Hitsugaya who's by far one of the least impressive captains in the Soul Society alongside Komamura. This is the same Hitsugaya we've seen who's got destroyed almost every time we've seen him except his fight against Gin when Gin was barely fighting back. He even struggled against a fracción like Shawlong and had to release his full power to beat a lowly fracción. At least Starrk who was almost as unimpressive fought one of the strongest captain in Kyoraku. If Halibel was fighting someone else like maybe Ukitake she'd be seen in a much better light. Whilst I don't think she had an impressive showing by any means, saying she's the least impressive is also not right lol. Syazel was fighting way weaker opponents than Hitsugaya with Renji and Uryu and Aaroniero lost to a seated officer in Rukia. Yammy also hasn't done anything in the series except beat up Chad and an Ichigo with White interfering with his powers. I think 3rd is about right, you can move her to 4th but Ulquiorra looks far more impressive than anyone else in the Espada you can argue he should be 1st so it's not like that's a diss to Halibel. I can see her beating up Nnoitra and everyone below him. My solution to the character is to just give her another opponent. Would have loved to see Ukitake vs Halibel maybe we could've seen his bankai too. He was doing nothing against Starrk and was mostly playing with Lilinette so it's not like he's needed there. Narratively it fits better too, 2/3 of the top 3 Espadas needed the 2 oldest and strongest captains besides Yamamoto and Yachiru Unohana to beat them. I'd keep Hachigen beating Barragan though since I have no issues with that fight.
Hey there MrTommo! Another fantastic job with you work here! Making good, key statement and showings of what the source material gives us. This alongside giving a fairly balanced look of the whole thing and bringing up exactly why these debates exist. I like to consider two schools of thought when approaching this topic myself. --(Incoming rambling, a bit of a warning!)-- I consider my first thought of Aizen's placement: It is this genius of a man who gives us the placement of each Espada accordingly. He placed Harribel here for several reasons I'd say above all else: Her combination of attributes from power, intellect, cunning, and ability to adapt on the fly is what's at hand here. Her raw power is in fact, likely higher (in terms of raw reiatsu) than all those beneath her. And even when asked by Toshiro midway in the battle (To paraphrase from memory: 'You're only number 3 and this strong?' 'This strong? I don't recall showing that much power.'), it was confirmed she wasn't showing much of her strength. When she did, it easily overpowered Toshiro, it isn't to say she didn't have the skill/technique or raw power to put him down. Unfortunately (as stated by you, due to weird decisions with the way it played out) she was put out of commission by Aizen and not her actual opponents who never really beat her. I think that speaks enough (in terms of power), she wasn't really being pressured despite facing a Captain and Two strong Vizards. The second school of thought I take to this is factor I don't think she showed her full array of skills (as Kubo's generic statement is blanket: power over water, does imply a lot of things) were ever fully shown. It does play to her strengths to not show all of her cards unless needed, I am certain she was considering crushing Toshiro with raw power rather than getting into her deeper talents. In truth given how conservative a fighter she is and some general unwillingness to go above and beyond to show off played against her. She likely fell victim to a combination of these factors and we were instead treated to a half show of what she can do. Given Kubo explained that Segunda Etapa is unlockable and also made it clear that Cero Oscuras is an ability of all Espada when released (though no one else ever used it, which bothers me): there's no reason to believe that Harribel herself can't do anything that Ulquiorra managed in terms of general Hollow/Arrancar abilities despite it not being shown. I think she earned her position just find and to me, despite what little we were shown? The simple outlook of knowing she can achieve the same level of things as those below her, is why I feel she deserves her number three position.
Harribel is just one of those characters that mechanically clash with the Kubo’s artist choice of how he writes a fight. But the funny thing is… so does Tōshirō in a lot of his fights as well. I find all the arrancars above Ulquiorra outside of their character design to be disappointing mechanically. But the symbolism and the reflection they have to the opponents they fight is beautiful. I don’t think any of the 1-3 arrancar had their hearts in the fight. And so it’s hard to powerscale them. So the eye test is telling me Ulquiorra is the strongest arrancar because mechanically, meaningfully, thematically, there was reason to go absolutely all out against Ichigo even if it was “meaningless” to him.
Water cannot be aged, but can be transformed given enough time when you incorporate entropic effects. Lets say that barragan can make his respira operate to age things up to 5000 years/second (which is hindering barragan because it seemed as though respira was instantaneous). if that is the case, then the water in harribel's attacks can be decomposed into diatomic hydrogen and oxygen gases, rendering her attacks completely useless.
@@vastolorde6194 Age doesn’t change the chemical bonds or change the state of matter water is in. That takes a controlled lab setting to separate the molecules and heat to change its form.
Since we're talking about Respira, let me just say that I absolutely hate this ability. It makes no sense. It'd be fine if it was just time acceleration, but if that was the case, it should affect everything it touches differently, according to the time it takes to deteriorate. Barragan just dissolves Soi Fon's arm, a building and a kidou in seconds. I believe it would be way better if his weakness were projectiles based on things that do not deteriorate over time like, just as someone said, water.
@@matheusbecker2351 I thought it was a unique ability for someone who looks like a skeleton. It makes sense why he saw himself as a god with his aging ability since it would affect almost anything. It’s not like time acceleration but more like rot like his release command for Arrogante. I’m not sure how much of a gap in power between the numbers 1-3 of the espada but if 3 isn’t that far below 2 then Harribel’s water should be able to reach and possibly injure Barrigan. Unless you’re someone like Genryuusai or Aizen who can probably just burn the respira or straight up ignore the ability entirely since their reiatsu is so much higher than everyone else.
Halibel being kinda meh was probably a behind the scenes issue. Kubo probably had bigger plans for the character but was probably under huge time constraints due to health and pressure from editors. I think at this point Bleach popularity was starting dip so he might have to told to cut something to make room for more prominent fights. He couldn’t cut the big 2, and ulquiorra was fighting the main character, so harribel got the axe.
There are several simple explanations for a lot of misjudgments that come with Harribel, but I will open with this simple fact: Yes. Harribel is stronger than Ulquiorra, outside of Segunda Etapa's ranking leapfrog. Simply think of her as faster, stronger, and more durable in sealed form and Resurreccion, relatively. Here's how things math out: 1. With regards to her pressuring Hitsugaya in base, that's because Toshiro's a combat genius. He was measuring himself, fighting at a level somewhere around the form he was at when he fought Luppi's Resurreccion: in this regard, you could consider Espada 3's base form somewhere around the equivalent of Substitute 6's Released Form (which, if you math that with Ulquiorra's base form vs Grimmjow's release form, lines up pretty well). Toshiro was simply baiting her into using stronger moves, keeping himself restrained because he knew she was going to get a LOT stronger. 2. Harribel's power ramps up the longer she fights, which would probably close the gap between her and Barragan (not directly, but give me a second), and would widen that between her and Ulquiorra. While Base Release Ulquiorra might be stronger than Base Release Harribel, after five minutes of her building up water, she's going to be beyond him. Which takes us to number 3: 3. She is the opposite of Barragan. His power is Destruction, the withering of life and the bringing of inevitable death; Harribel is Creation. The reiatsu she generates doesn't vanish, it persists. There's no indication that the water fades when she falls, either: it's quite possible that, given enough time, Harribel could turn Hueco Mundo itself into a lush paradise simply by catalyzing the reiatsu of sand into the form of water. To Hollows, and to Aizen, THAT is a power beyond any of them (Findorr may have a similar power, but he's operating on a much, much lower level than she is, sorry Crabcake). Any Espada can charge a Ball of Doom and shoot a laser beam that reduces stone to rubble: only Harribel can take the energy around her and build a lake. Even the clouds in Las Noches's artificial sky (were there clouds?) might have been formed by her. The water for the tea they drank? That was her gift. 4. While Wonderweiss's scream did break her out of the ice, I think it's also very significant that she emerged unscathed. Her Hierro and base energy were strong enough that she could be frozen in a crushing tower of ice that Hitsugaya assured her would be her demise, and she emerged with an expression of "Was that it?" He might have needed Yamamoto or Shunsui to deliver the death blow through the ice, because the strongest weapon in Hitsugaya's arsenal wasn't enough to crush and shatter Harribel's body. He drained his energy and left himself exhausted to accomplish what roughly amounted to the same victory Grimmjow claimed over Ulquiorra: a few hours of peace from his opponent's attacks. There was no healing from Wonderweiss. Aizen was unbothered by Harribel's showing. The outcome of that round of the Battle of Fake Karakura Town was simple: four Vasto Lorde Arrancars were enough to best four Captains and a Lieutenant, and even without the fourth, those five officers couldn't actually defeat the first three. Just because your Queen gets pinned doesn't mean that it's not still the most powerful piece on the board (or, in this case, the third). 5. Briefly touching on the ice clone, that was essentially Hitsugaya's version of Ichigo's Hollowfication and blocking Ulquiorra's strike...except that even blocking with his sword wouldn't have stopped her. He had to put up a screen of ice and fade behind it, using a trick that he had probably forged before the battle over hours, and it got popped in one strike. That, or he might have been using it from the moment he activated his Bankai (though the dialogue sounds like he activated the clone in response to her Resurreccion). Also, her Cascada IS a tsunami. That's the power of a tsunami. Flooding buildings. Smashing cars everywhere. She's the ocean. That's what she does.
A few other mentions. You place Hitsugaya around Grimmjow level. That would be Ichigo's level too after his fight. Keep in mind Ulqiora was able to be hurt by Ichigo. Next is the fact that Toshiro using the moisture and freezing it is what made it so that Harribel wasn't able to get as strong as she shouldve been. Next is Ulqiora was in Hueco Mundo where hollows are given an extra boost in strength Lastly is feats. Ulqiora was able to beat and kill Ichigo in his release after being wounded. Harribel was fighting two Vizord lieutenants and someone that scales around Masked Bankai Ichigo's level while also not being buffed by Hueco Mundo and came out completely unscathed until Aizen came in and even then he wasn't able to kill her. Segunda Etapa can't be scaled however since it has no feats outside of providing Ulqiora with an ability he himself struggles to control for high amounts of damage. Starrk isn't even the fastest Espada when it comes to Sonido and he can travel all throughout Los Noches so Harribel evading LDR is quite possible.
@@kevinbell5674 I'm just saying that using the concept would be less half-assed than what Kubo did. Besides, you could argue poorly that the idea of an ice clone was taken from Kishimoto, but it definitely wasn't.
Her technique is far more advanced than the lower ranking Espada- which are essentially the weird Hollow powers and energy-based weapons. In contrast, hers is essentially a Shinigami elemental weapon than a Hollow power. It’s impressive but it’s overshadowed by the top 2 are much more esoteric and divine in nature in their abilities
Genuinely I think Ulquiorra being given a second form did a lot to damage the Espada. It's inclusion raised a lot of narrative issues like the whole "nobody knows about this form", why nobody else has this power, or why Kubo even gave him the initial form. I feel like Kubo wanted Ulquiorra to be the 1st but realized it meant Ichigo wouldn't have a way of closing the gap, so he made him 4th, then realized it wouldn't seem satisfying as a rival/foe so gave him a second release. This caused Harribel to become a victim of this change because she's supposed to be stronger than him but Kubo wanted her to fight Toshiro due to his popularity. So this made Harribel the weak link. None of this is of course confirmed but it felt that way when I read it back in the day. Harribel should have easily beat Toshiro and fought someone like Ukitake. I genuinely still feel Ulquiorra shouldn't have had a second form and it makes the Arrancar feel too inconsistent in power. Tragically she doesn't fit in the top 3 because of these choices and I really hate it. She deserved better.
Yup if Harribel was really portrayed to be stronger than ulquiorra she should’ve been able to easily one shot toshiro before he can even react and should’ve fought a high tier captain or a vizard captain
I honestly feel the problem isn’t Harribel, but the problem was when Kubo decided to make her opponent Hitsugaya who had an inconsistent showing in the Arrancar arc he doomed Harribel to come off as underwhelming in order to make Hitsuagay look strong. As mentioned Harribel in her base was easily overpowering Hitsugaya. Even when he released his bankai she was still easily showing herself to be his superior in her base. After she released her zanpkauto and the fake out clone bit Harribel suddenly stops using her superior power and speed and keeps doing the rock-paper-scissors match with Hitsugaya, where they keep canceling out each other’s powers. For whatever reason Harribel just never decides to speed blitz him again and cut through him or use basic hollow techniques, like cero or bala. The fight very much felt like it was designed to limit what Harribel could do to give Hitsugaya a shot at winning this. That to me is where the problem lies. If Ulquiorra was made Espada #3 or even #1 and his opponent was made to be Hitsugaya we would have the same problem. Kubo would have wrote Ulquiorra in an underwhelming way to give Hitsugaya more of a shot at winning. That is nothing against Hitsugaya as a character, but the curse of being so popular and being shown in more fights in the Arrancar arc meant we saw him struggle to beat Yammy with his shikai alone and then take a serious hit from Luppi. While he won against Luppi in the end the fact Luppi could damage his bankai and Hitsugaya used a sneak attack to win, the fan perception was already Hitsugaya was somewhere around Espada 6-10 power level not anywhere near the top 3.
Harribel was one of the most logical and tactical espada. You dont need strength alone if youre level headed enough to keep up. Mind you she took on a Captain and 2 vizards and wasnt even breaking a sweat. Not even Stark handled that many at once.
Didn't Shunsui sneak attack Starkk while he was fighting Love & Rose? Lisa would become Captain after the Quincy Blood War & Toshiro Hitsugaya is supposed to someday rival Byakuya Kuchiki & Kenpachi Zaraki in terms of power. Harribel's fight lasted the longest we just never got to see a lot of it with Aizen slashing her after Starkk's Death.
@@MaxIronsThird The two weakest Vizords were running Bankai Ichigo for his pockets all throughout Ichigo's training and they weren't using Shikai like how Shinji didn't need Shikai to beat Grimmjow
@@Honest_Mids_Masher Ichigo was training 24/7 without rest, to master the hollowfication, while the others were rotating. Hollow Ichigo beat the crap out of Byakuya and almost killed Hiyori in under a second after manifesting. Shinji is clearly the strongest Vizard, it makes sense he's able to defeat base Grimmjow with just the mask and no Shikai.
THIS is just what we need. Justification that the Espada's Ranking isn't exactly black and white. It's really just Kubo's way of saying "I'll let you guys explore the truth yourself" Giving Ulquiorra a second release.
But the thing is... He didn't look dominant, Harribel was literally tossing him around the city in base alone and forced him to activate Bankai almost immediately. Yet right after she released, and killed his clone with an invisible attack that she never uses again, she can't seem to land any meaningful hits anymore because he plays keep away until he can just freeze her in one go. Neither one of them looks good in this fight, everyone just looks pathetic and kinda dumb.
She deserves her status in her power and skill. Better than that, unlike most Hollows, she does not relish or revel in her power/abilities and is morally opposed to bloodshed and powermongering. She'd rather have peace and safety with her Fracciones while also being a tad shy. She's a beacon of light in a dark world who would fit in perfectly with Ichigo and company. Pity they have not met.
@@jrgenvellesen7800 Truth. If anyone is fit to lead it's her with others who share her rationality. The fact a measure of peace has arrived to Las Noches for the first time is all you need to know.
kubo doing kubo things as per usual. Like the guys art is amazing, but the fight match-ups are sometimes SO dumb it's just cringe worthy. Like THE ONE GUY who has THE exact ability to counter X enemy, faces said enemy. Or idiotic things like when Yoiruchi fights askin in her cat form and urahara says some dumb crap about how a cats mood changes a lot of times within a short time span and thus so does her reiatsu so he can't get immune to it or some BS. Like....god how bad do you have to be to come up with that kind of bs?
As I've said in every video covering the Top 3 Espada fights, they could've easily been handled better without disrespecting their power: Harribel defeats Toshiro with the single swing, then have her engage Yamamoto and be defeated by his Shikai, albeit keep it from being a small fight since this is number 3 we're talking about. Since she easily defeated a captain and it took some effort from the Captain Commander to take her down, this would've been a good way to establish the idea "There's still 2 Espada more powerful than this one!" As for Harribel's water abilities, there's so much that could have been done in theme with this. For basics, pressure cutter projectiles, boiling streams, and something that could've made her more interesting is giving her the ability to dive into the air itself, concealing her presence between the human world and garganta, making her momentarily impossible to track or damage and allowing her to ambush her prey. Have Hiyori and Lisa fight against Gin so that Shinji vs Aizen can begin immediately, and actually drag out for a while. Barragan should've killed Omaeda since Kubo had no real use for him at any point in the story. Hachi and Soi Fon should've been losing after landing the missile on his face. No magical "Oh, you aren't immune to your own aging powers" plot-twist since it makes no sense for an AGELESS BEING to be affected by Respira. Instead, while Barragan is contemplating how he should finish off Soi Fon and Hachi, he attacks Aizen while he is fighting Shinji. Aizen tricks Barragan and Shinji into wounding eachother, and Barragan is finished off by Aizen. Stark's fight could remain mostly the same. But instead, have Love and Rose taken out of the fight by the time Shunsui ambushes Stark. Stark still gets wounded and plays the demon color game, but Shunsui is unable to defeat Stark with just his Shikai, so he lures Stark away from the others, to the edge of the barrier, where he unveils his Bankai and defeats Stark between chapters as to not reveal its power to the viewers. While not perfect, this would have been a much better way to handle the top 3. And if we needed Toshiro to be brought back for the Hinamori twist, he could be recovered off-panel by Hachi during the time he started healing Hiyori.
Huh, that's different from my scenario but I like it. Shame that Starrk had to be offscreened though but how else could you have kept to Kubo's vision of saving up some of the most important Bankai in the final arc without making the Espada look weak so I get the decision.
I wanna believe that Aizen chose his rankings based off initial impression of reiatsu control and not potential. I think during the final war with the soul society he was gauging everyone’s potential for the first time. When he watched his team gradually get beaten he realized their potentials weren’t what he hoped. That war was an experiment and his team was getting beaten before all the soul reapers used their Bankai. He probably concluded they were not strong enough to beat soul society and knocked out Haribel himself because he didn’t expect anything more from her.
Probably the most annoying thing is Harribel likely could've shown herself as more capable if she used other abilities outside of her water powers. Seriously, why didn't she use Bala, Cero or hell a Gran Rey Cero when she saw using Water against Hitsugaya was at best a cancel out situation? Also logically she should've been faster and way stronger given that Ichigo who is probably comparable to Toshiro got the shit kicked out of him by Ulquiorra in just his norrmal released state.
Aside Grimmjow (and i guess Luppi in CFYOW) not a single Espada remember about Gran Rey Cero which always seems weird to me (same thing about Cero Oscuras)
@@mikeparradise9333nah he said that Cero Oscuras can be used only by Espada in their Ressurection form (and iirc in manga Yammy was gonna use it against Ichigo but he cancelled his blast)
I'm starting to think Kubo has something against water 💧 type zanpakuto, whereas ice 🧊 types get better treatment. Kaien Shiba (Aaroniero), Harribel, and Findorr Calius 💧 didn't do so well. Rukia and Toshiro ❄️ fared much better.
Starrk should have been the one to stay alive tbh. Honestly, I love her, but she didn't do anything for the story aside for her aspect of death bringing a bit of depth to her character. My thing with Starrk is, people shxt on him so much as a character and his position because of how little we got and that it was kinda underwhelming compared to the Espada in Hueco Mundo, but all I have to say is that, Starrk didn't even fight with his all because he didn't want to fight in the first place. He even said it to Shunsui and yet he still fought and held his own against 4 captains and almost forced Shunsui into releasing his bankai if it wasn't for Jushiro stopping him.
It all boils down to Hitsugaya having that clone nonsense and Kubo wanting to rush the plot between Ulquiorra's fight and Aizen's fight. I think it also has something to do with Kubo wanting to keep Harribel alive so she couldn't have killed Hitsugaya and then later received mercy from Soul Society so he set it up for her not to kill anyone and then be betrayed by Aizen.
You should eventually make this video for yammy😂he definitely was not done justice for being “the strongest espada” but gets offscreened by 2 mid tier captains. The databooks say it was a really tough fight but that’s not whats shown. Anyways I know you already did a video on yammy in the past but just an idea
@@thewarrior8497 Well he did turn into the 0 Espada and had a second transformation like Ulquiorra and the 2nd databook Masked confirms that he is the strongest but I can see your point. Offscreening doesn't help major characters.
@@kanoreese1253 yep. Plus the fact kenny called the battle boring. That could be a post battle cocky attitude from him but he seemed to enjoy and struggle more with Nnoitra
To be fair, Starrk, Barragan and Harribel were in Karakura Town, where reishi's concentration is wayy lower than in Hueco Mundo I dare to say that Ulq had a considerable boost during his final fight against Ichigo and some people doesn't know
A note that 4 has a history of being a “cursed number” in Japan. The symbol for 4 is extremely close to the one for death, so it’s seen as a bad omen, similar to the number 13 in other places. It’s very common for older buildings in japan to even skip the number 4 when numbering the floors. So it is possible that Ulquiorra being 4 might be a small nod to him being stronger than his rank
While I love Hallibel's design, she is the most questionable Espada in terms of strrngth in the Pre-Timeskip. I feel the fact that Yammy in base made Hitsugaya go into Bankai faster than Hallibel. And when Ulquiorra was threatening Orihime, you see a panel of Hitsugaya meaning Ulquiorra was not intimidated by him at all. And while Kenpachi is inconsistent to rank in terms of strength during the Arrancar Arc, I feel Nnoitra being able to damage him enough where he questioned he might die if he wasnt careful, is more impressive than being relative to or slightly stronger than Hitsugaya. At most I feel Hallibel was maybe around the same strength as say Grimmjow or Nnoitra but her Water Abilities could have some utility in some matchups but nah, Ulquiorra even lowballing him is absolutely stronger than Hallibel.
I feel like with Yammy making toshiro go bankai is because of that restriction that soul reapers place on themselves when they go to the world of the living
Tier Harrible just had a bad match up because Toshiro wss pulling out haxes to counter her. The fact that she was fighting Toshiro and 2 Lieutenant level vizords without sustaining any injuries is an indication of how strong she is. Harribel is a bad match up for Ulquiorra and I doubt that she would sustain any injuries from any of his attacks.
@@bkgocrazy6607 Good Argument but as we saw here, Toshiro under Gentaikaiojou at that point was probably below Shawlong, and unless he got significantly stronger in a few weeks. He can go from below Shawlong to being able to give Luppi trouble while at like 20% power? While Luppi's strength is questionable, he was ranked Espada #6 which means his combat ability has to be at least above Zommari in terms of raw power.
I feel like some factors are being overlooked. One water powers are being slept on cause they have crazy range of abilities!!! Yes she did get the worst opponent she could fight but you gotta remember at least she did damage to Hitsugaya. Despite the one opening he got on her with the ice tower, Hitsugaya couldn’t land any damaging attacks on her. Then he even got assistance from two Visors that used their Hollow mask and none of them landed an attack on her! I know it was a constant standstill since she didn’t do much damage to them either but the fact she was at a huge disadvantage of type match ups and multiple opponents, Harribel stood her ground and proved she’s an insanely skilled fighter verses the other Espada no matter the odds. Her resilience is her strongest trait and is backed up by her backstory (which I know is anime only) where she wants to get strong so there doesn’t have to be needless sacrifices (ultimately making her my fav Espada and Bleach character). She only got hurt when Aizen betrayed her! Even Ywach had to step in to beat her cause he knew her resilience was insane! 😂 Match her up against Nnoritora or any below him they aren’t gonna get any hits on her and her water powers are way more effective against them than Hitsugaya. Ulquiorra is the only one that’s truly debatable but I honestly feel like he wouldn’t be able to land a hit on her either. She definitely could have focused more on using her Cero attacks than her water attacks or even using an awesome combination between the two, but unfortunately Kubo was not that creative with her skill set which is a shame. Personally I still believe she’s worthy of 3 and she just REALLY needs a better fight to show off her powers and skills. 👍
My answer to that is always the same...he didn't defeat her in power, he captured her in a place she couldn't escape from alone. So, seems fine. Edit: Also a common thread I think everyone forgets about the top Espada fights...they all cheat to win. Shunsui admits that he avoided telling Starrk all of the rules to his shikai games. Likewise they use Baraggan's own ability against him. And Harribel gets caught and is unable to escape.
Except he shouldn't have been able to do that, If Harribel was as fast or faster than Ulquiorra Toshiro should've been dead long before he had a chance to set up his Flower Prison trick.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 unless her heart wasn’t in it. It’s hard to really gauge the true nature of hollows when there are hollows like Nel who are an anomaly to hollows. Harribel could very well be one of those characters that we’ll never see go all out using multiple types of ceros and balas in her disposals… or even sonidos
Harribel deserves her place only reason people disagree with the ranking is because they got bad matchups or didn’t use their full power and uiqiorra having segunda
Hey man I’ve been watching your videos for years, and just now realized you only have 245k subs. Your content is always so well done man. I’m going to try and help boost your numbers.
Indeed, only Ichigo's opponents (Grimmjow and Ulquiorra) were truly impressive and Nnoitra lucked out by fighting Kenpachi - who is always given a great showcase.
Barragan lived to his hype imo He really lost in a more different way, but at least looked strong Stark being number 1 is hard but being the top leads to easy disappointment
The fight was to make Hitsugaya look good and make Starrk want to release to see a bankai. The only explanation imo. It gets even weirder when you realize that Lisa and Hiyori, shikai + mask, and Hitsugaya couldn't even land a hit on her. She had basically stalemate them.
I honestly think that Loves Bankai would be something like Kenpachis.(Due to his Zanpakuto seemingly being mainly a offensive weapon). Maybe his bankai makes him go Rampage.
Hitsugaya had to use his strongest ability to only trap her. And despite fighting 3 Captain level opponents simultaneously, Halibel never got a single scratch in her entire career until Aizen stepped in. Her release had enough offensive power to one-shot Hitsugaya in his Bankai with brute force. The manga made sure to never show Hitsugaya block any of her attacks head-on after she released, for it would result the same way it did for his ice-clone, an effortless one-shot with a regular swing in his general direction.
It almost feels like an editor stepped in between the Hitsugaya sliced in half chapter and the next, since Toshiro was so popular they might've told Kubo to keep him in the fight. - Just a random idea, nobody read this as a fact!
She was able to survive a sword strike from Aizen which is a better feat than any of the other Espada but she held back considerably against Toshiro, Lisa and Hiyori. She should have blitzed them all if she was truly as strong as her rank suggests.
@@SunlightGwynjust because he wanted hallibel out of the way doesn't mean it was his full power swing. Just that hallibel survived the amount of power aizen THOUGHT was needed to bring her down.
Speed doesn't scale with ranks, Zommari (7th) is the fastest and Starrk (1st) is near the top, yet Yammy (0th) has almost no mobility feats whatsoever. Harribel has no particular speed feats and nothing indicates that she could blitz them.
Harribel was just pur against a opponent, a Captain no less, who hard counters her. But nothing Hitsugaya did actually damaged her and she was slowly wearing him down
It’s odd to say this because Kubo has come up with a lot of truly creative abilities, BUT his lack of creativity is what ruined Harribel. Water abilities are crazy! I truly expected her to be able to mummify people by ripping the moisture out of their bodies if she cut them. She could have used water the same way Byakuya uses Senbonzakura…pressurized raindrops to slice up the opponent, water shields, water prisons, combining water with ceros to make super heated stream. I was waiting for something truly cool, but Kubo really dropped the ball with her!
Before watching I’m gonna say she deserves her placement since there weaker outside of los nochess along with the fact, I don’t think her heart was really in the fight she had. Plus she also survives two cuts from aizen
Harribel was definitely stronger than Ulquiorra in their first release at least, the second is a different story. The misconception of Harribel being weaker than Ulquiorra is her performance against Toshiro. People seriously underestimate Toshiro. People point out that Harribel was doing better in base then Started to underperform in resurrection. But there's actually a very logical reason for that. Toshiro's power is to command all water. Her resurrection essentially made Hitsugaya strong enough to take her on. Hitsugaya doesn't need a lot of Reiatsu to control water when there's already water in the environment and Harribel gave him that weapon. Ulquiorra on the other hand has an advantage in the sense that as confirmed by Kubo, hollows actually do in fact get a power boost while in hueco Mundo. Harribel should be stronger than 1st release Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra might be stronger in segunda etapa. To be fair, she is much weaker than Barragan and Starrk. Even back when they were still Vasto Lorde hollows, it's obvious who's far stronger.
Yeah but no, there is no logical reason. Water has nothing to do with the fact that she just one shotted him after her resurreccion, yet somehow, after the ice clone, hitsugaya can keep up with her
@@tartopomme8946 There's actually another good reason. Hitsugaya even stated it himself lol. He wasn't going all out before he got one shot. He said she was underestimating him. And it's true, she was underestimating him. Even in CFYOW, Harribel actually does compare Hikone in his first appearance to Hitsugaya at the time she fought him. So yes, he wasn't going all out. Minus Ichigo, Hitsugaya is also a prodigy with the second fastest growth rate in the entire series. Also, Harribel was clearly faster than Hitsugaya throughout the fight hence why she could suddenly cut his clone in half. Hitsugaya was making up for it using tricks and feints and kept his distance for majority of the fight. But people tend not to notice details like this.
Harribel’s situation isn’t herself but a byproduct of the dated standards of Shonen Manga that is slowly changing- that girls can show off their skills but it’s ultimately the boy’s show and the former can’t completely overshadow the latter. It used to be worse in earlier decades, but it’s an admitted flaw in the shonen demographic for the vast majority of the series with scant exceptions.
Harribel suffers from both being a woman in a shonen manga, and a character who is around past her faction's importance (which repeatedly is a bad sign in this series). But her main problems with showing her power are the missed opportunities with both what the nature of her power is, as well as how and where she used it against. On the note of her power not comparing to others of her rank, I think the better way to go about it would be to explain that her power also has strong control over the water in a living body, including her opponents', but actively chooses not to use it. Her death aspect, Hollow hole location, and even her Fracciones' team ability has some connection to what a body can do. Her having control over the element of life would be a great contrast to Barragan's control over death energy, and Stark's control over neutral energy. It would also make for a nice contrast to Yamamoto's use of fire (especially with his Bankai). And, it could even explain a bit about her value to Aizen's machinations. Hypothetically, Kubo could explain that while Aizen can create complete illusions, he can't alter existence on a molecular level, so Harribel could always know where he actually is by knowing where the water in his body is. Harribel has also been done a disservice by the caliber of her opponents. 1) There's simply no reason any of Hitsugaya's abilities should've worked on Harribel, considering she has temperature control over water. Really, Hitsugaya should've been the easiest opponent around for her to beat. And she absolutely should've been able to free herself. Wonderweiss' interference didn't even make sense. 2) Hitsugaya should've lost for any reason other than popularity, and she could've moved on to the next opponent. Unfortunately in FKT, two of her opponents are other women around past their faction's importance, so they didn't have a good showing either. Considering Lisa was on the cusp of being a captain, Harribel fighting two Visored and a captain could've been a good opportunity for the Visored to show off and yet still be overwhelmed by Harribel, but it didn't happen. 3) Harribel also lost too quickly against Aizen. Considering she really shouldn't have taken any lasting damage from the opponents she fought, maybe her defeat was used to hype Aizen up more, but the way it happened, it looks just like Kubo rushing. 4) Harribel's only other "fight", against Ywach, could've also been an opportunity to at least show her putting up a fight. She was woefully overmatched, and she's literally out of her element in Hueco Mundo (despite being its queen, it's a desert), but having at least a decent showing of getting some hits in against Sternritter while trying to multitask with evacuating her people could've been nice. Harribel also could've benefited from having more of a "reluctant warrior" portrayal, like Kyoraku and Stark did. Instead of looking like she was dragging her feet, she just looked inferior.
She's certainly not weak, given how she, early in, managed to dominate Toshiro in Bankai while she's in base. However, her performance after she powers up is significantly less impressive and leaves much to be desired afterwards. She never impressed me the way Bambietta did. Harribel struggles to take down one of the weaker captains and two Vizard former lieutenants, while Bambietta one shots Shinji and only loses to Sajin due to immortality nonsense. Still, I can easily see her overwhelm the likes of Nnoitra and Grimmjow, due to superior sword skills
I think its pretty clear based on espada 5 and 7 that that the espada ranks probably are based by spiritual pressure which while important doesn't fully translate to actual ability. Espada 7 has the fastest sonido (whatever that means) and espada 5 has the hardest hard on for.... i mean hardest hierro. Ulqquiora through out the series demonstrates excellent proficiency in all hollow based abilities and seems to take pride in that. His fight with ichigo is both a demonstration of the raw power of espada 4 but also his own personal ability to wield that power. Furthermore ichigo really dug something out of him, ulquiorra was definitely taking their fight personally, and their battle had been hyped for awhile and needed to be dramatic. These facts make scaling the top 4 espada really difficult and I'm fine with that
Ulquiorra and Starkk are way faster than Zommari. Bankai Ichigo is faster than Byakuya and Byakuya was as fast if not faster than Zommari, meanwhile Ulquiorra was blitzing masked Ichigo like crazy, in his first ressurection, in Segunda Etapa, Ichigo couldn't even see him, Starkk in one jump came from out of nowhere, touched down a meter away from both Ichigo and Kenpachi, took Orihime and fled, they couldn't even pursue. Starkk probably has the fastest sonido.
Espadas r ranked on reiryoku. This is the amount and HOW their rieatsu is used in various abilities. So it's still basically overall power, which define strength.
@lordlittletoeq8537 reiryoku, by definition, is a power aligned with the spiritual sensitivity and willpower of the user. So yes, it culminated in tge creation of their abilities, not just amount of rieatsu.
Considering the fact that Kubo kept her alive it makes sense that they made her less threatening. Otherwise people would not want Harribel to be rescued.
Unique? Dude her power is summoning and throwing water at people, that's one of the most basic powers you can get, and it wasn't even unique for this arc of Bleach as The 9th Espada could use a Zanpakuto that also created water.
Haribel had such a cool design and the lead up to her fight was excellent! I am inclined to agree she definitely should have had a better showing and would have loved for her character to have been able to shine. Thanks for the analysis!
I think alot of the time in anime Water users are greatly under estimated and the authors do not seem to think creatively enough with what someone who controls water can actually do. Harribel can control water, conjure water, and even boil water. They could have given her many sinister abilities. Example say she conjures a water prison trapping her victim and not only drowning them but heating up that water to boiling. basically boiling them alive. Depending on how deep her control goes they could've had her be able to pull the water out of her Opponents body, or heat the water in their body. Even Avatar did Water wielders better, with the whole blood bending idea since Blood is mostly water. I would just love to see a truly terrifying water user that has a bit more creative uses
The biggest issue though is who Harribel is fighting, at this point in the series Toshiro was easily the weakest of all the Captains. He wasn't as intelligent as Mayuri, wasn't as fast Soifon, wasn't as skilled at kido as Unohana and Byakuya, wasn't anywhere near as physically strong as Kenpachi or Komamura or as experienced as Shunsui or Ukitake orYamamoto. Harribel should've demolished him in a matter of minutes.
That's YOUR misconception about Hitsugaya, and a misconception held by the fandom for some odd reason. Not as smart as Mayuri, not as fast as Soifon, not as physically strong as Komamura and Zaraki...you DO realize that applies to MOST of the Captains...including the other names you mentioned. And yet, Mayuri, Komamura and Soifon are not the strongest Captains either. For example, Byakuya is ALSO not as smart as Mayuri, is ALSO slower than Soifon and ALSO physically weaker than Komamura and Zaraki. But you'll never hear people calling HIM the weakest Captain, now would you?
@@RGA301092 Toshiro isn't especially good at kido, flash step, hand to hand combat or even swordsmanship. His primary asset is his Zanpakuto power, that's the main reason he's the weakest without that he's basically screwwed.
What makes Harribel an interesting character in my opinion is that she became a Vasto Lord without consuming other hollows to gain more power, unlike Grimmjow for example who had to eat over 3000 hollows to reach Vasto Lord level power. Also the fact that she was fighting in the world of the living put her a quite the disadvantage, unlike Ulquiorra and Nnoitra whose fights took place in Hueco Mundo where the hollows are naturally stronger. Harribel’s fighting style is also suited to fighting in the desert, water doesn’t naturally occur in hueco mundo that’s why her power allows her to create water instead of manipulating the water around her like hitsugaya. That’s why she was caught off guard when hitsugaya started manipulating the weather. I think if she wouldn’t have been cut down by Aizen I think she would’ve eventually overpowered hitsugaya and the others
I wish Kubo could rewrite the entire FKT arc. Some matchups were just really bad. Toshiro throughout the entire series was seen as a pushover type of character, but he’s going up against number 3? Also Soi Fon vs Barragan was a weird and uninteresting matchup. Tom you should make a video where you discuss what match ups you would’ve done, and the outcomes of each fights.
Considering how ancient he was Barragan should've fight against Yamamato, it would make him look a lot better (even if he would definitely lose to his shikai)
The starrk fight needed WAY more stakes than it actually had. Even if it was to show their personality, the whole fight still basically just a power display on both sides.
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Did Harribel live up to the title of 3rd Espada in your opinion? Would Ulquiorra or even Nnoitra have been more deserving? Let me know your thoughts down below!
I'm always curious as to why you sometimes choose to take into acount non-diagetic elements to make an argument and sometimes you don't. To clarify, I don't mean it as a criticism, it's a genuine question because I'm interested on what you would have to say about it. For instance, when you bring up the fact that Ulquiorra has more screen time since he is an imediate antagonist to Ichigo, which results in him being more well developed in terms of personality, abilities etc, why not give the same treatment to the subject of the video? You went through the diagetic reasons that make Harribel look how she looks in the story, why not touch on some of the elements off-story that could have contributed to her being written like that as well? I know it would be speculative, but what isn't? I'd like to hear your opinions on stuff like that, since you know so much about Bleach and what was going on at the time Kubo was writing/publishing the chapters. Also! I was expecting you to do one of your "What if?" sections in this video, wondering out loud how it could have gone differently, which powers you would have given her, what solutions she could have come up with when Hitsugaya cornered her and stuff like that. I like it a lot when we get to see your ideas (and drawings!). I also wonder a lot about how I would "fix" Bleach if I could, so those bits of your videos always feel like the conversations I have with my friends about the series, which is nice.
By pure vibes, I think Harribel is fine where she's at, and I feel her abilities are probably more impressive than we actually saw. Ulquiorra is a bad fit for 3rd in my opinion because it requires an investment in the hierarchy and a loyalty he doesn't really have.
I dunno Mr Tommo, did you factor in Harribel's fanservice strength into her overall power level?
@@jonasfagundes8136 Yeah. In this case, so much of it is wrapped in Kubo's writing decisions that it feels a bit evasive not to directly name and blame him.
@@MrGksarathy I don’t like to call it blame, since most of the circumstances are unknown and likely not under his control, but his writing for sure is a factor. Character popularity factors in a lot of how artists at shounen jump used to write back then (idk if it’s still like that) and maybe thats even why Kubo paired Hitsugaya with Harribel, to offset the popularity of one with the other’s. As Tom said, they were not the most interesting of match ups in terms of powers after all, so maybe that’s a reason?
-Hallibel : Ok so in base form i'm stronger than Bankai Hitsugaya ?
-Kubo : Yes
-Hallibel : ok then why do i use resurreccion ?
-Kubo : to win even faster
-Hallibel : Ok make sense. I was already stronger, resurreccion make you 5 to 10 time stronger, which mean i win in what... 2sec ?
-Kubo : 1sec
-Hallibel : ok great, whos my next opponent ?
-Kubo : actually hes not dead because he used this ice clone ability
-Hallibel : Mmmmmok... can he do it again ?
-Kubo : No he can use it only once.
-Hallibel : Then i will just OS him again in 1sec, no big deal
-Kubo : No, now you lose the fight
-Hallibel : Bro what ?
😂😂
Lmao
Exactly what i thought when i first saw this fight
😂😅😂
How accurate you were with this pisses me off. I’m like so now he can keep up with her after that bleeding ice clone trick… ok
There’s so much you can do with water powers, kubo had the perfect opportunity to give halibel a pressure cutter but he didn’t do it
The funny thing is he gave it to a Fraccion, Findorr Calius.
I always thought taking a note from Naruto here would’ve been perfect. Sasori as part of his puppet body has high pressure water cannons built into his palms that can cut through rock with ease and by extension much more. Harribel with something like this that has maybe a Bleach flair like interacting with Reiatsu.
Exactly. Even having Harribel simply outclass Hitsugaya with water powers would make her seem more dangerous.
@@ActivateMysticMine Heck, Kisame would have been a good blueprint for her because he is one of the hardest non-Uchiha, Tailed Beast, or Ohtsutsuki antagonist. Harribel even shares a shark theme with him.
Findorr had more interesting abilities then harribel. A freaking fraccion!
"Since when were you under the impression I wasn't using Daiguren Hyorinmaru?" - Hitsugaya, probably.
😆
Here's my theory;
Harribel is a water user who survived in Hueco Mundo. Hueco Mundo is a desert. This would shape her fighting style. She can generate water on her own, but it takes time. So her go to tactic is to stall a fight out until the battlefield suits her. Every time she launches an attack, it shifts things in her favor.
Hitsyaga mentioned it. He thought she was waiting for the battlefield to change before unleashing her ultimate attack. Only he shows that unlike her, he doesn't have to wait, and summons storm clouds.
You were correct. She did very well early on. Then she saw Yamamoto scorch her Fraccion. She says she's going to get revenge on him, and to that end...she's going to need *alot* of water. And Hitsugaya is the perfect opponent for her. His attacks will add fuel to her own. He will add water to the landscape until the point there is more than enough for her to truly unleash her power.
She was using him.
Very interesting theory. I gotta say i like it. It just would suck if all her fights with opponents on, or around her level would essencially be able to take her out very quickly if everything was depending on her changing the battlefield. Its a pretty monumental weakness. 😅
That's such a cool take!;😮😮😍😍😍
lol I just posted something like this but you beat me to it. Call it a cope theory but it just makes too much sense to let go of.
Very interesting. This explains her dialogue against Yamamoto.
That's great in universe explanation but there's a key difference between harribel and the other espada that impacts why she's not written to be more impressive.... (I'll let you guess)
One of my biggest issues is that Toshiro was the one who said that Vasto Lordes were stronger than Captain Class Shinigami, and yet he was able to defeat a Vasto Lorde ARRANCAR which is way stronger. I always thought it was odd that Kubo picked him to be fighting one of the top 3 Espada since he’s more on the lower end of the Captains. I feel the same for Soi Fon on how she was chosen to fight Barragan.
Arrancar just doesnt age well in some major moments.
@@maciekwucow3989I would say in almost all moments aside their designs and cool backstories for some of them
Tōshirō does not defeat Harribel that honor goes to Aizen.
I think a problem Kubo has is that he sets his villains up to be unbeatable and then has to have the heroes beat them.
i think kubo is just a bad writer, it aint that deep
It also doesn't help her case the fact that her own fracciones did a more impressive display on Fake Karakura with Ayon defeating four lieutenants and forcing Yamamoto to intervene
My biggest criticism of kubo is deff how he handled the top espada even other ones in comparison to the top quincy
I personally think that she deserves her spot as 3rd place, but I can see why ppl see her as weaker then ulq. She was defeated by Toshiro, but the fact she took zero damage the whole arc until aizen dealt with her is something ppl forgot. She was dominating the fight against toshiro in base form and even forced him to rush to bankai. Then she goes into resurcion and becomes weaker ? Which was a weird writing choice by Kubo. But even being frozen by Toshiro's then strongest attack, she breaks out by wonderweiss and is seen to have taken no damage. Then she takes on Lisa, Toshiro and Hiyori with no problem. In short: I still think she derserves her spot, it's just that Kubo's writing on her and Toshiro's fight was bad compared to the others
I hope the beings and 👿😈😈👿 demons hellverse are well written and new race appears.
I dont believe Wonderweiss broke her out.. I believe that Wonderweiss's appearance was used as a plot twist to show us all 3 espada were not defeated. If Wonderweiss voice was hard enough to shatter Toshiros Hyoten Hyakkaso, he literally wouldve destroyed everyones eardrums.. Also, Harribel was unscratched when she was out of the ice. She was defeated with no injuries? No, she got out of the ice by herself, just like Starrk and Baraggan dealt with their "moment of defeat" by themselves. And Wonderweiss went to Starrk because he was fighting the 2 strongest captains actively fighting. Shunsui and Ukitake going down just added more to the twist, to make us believe the situation wasnt going to end as easily as that.
Kubo handled the Espada pacing terribly, but it is made quite clear that Harribel is much stronger than Nnoitra at least.
It's wild how many people think noitorra is stronger just because he didn't openly resent hallibel even tho we've only seen one scene of them together. And in that scene, noitorra was openly antagonistic of hallibel.
@@ghhbpoloPeople think Nnoitra's stronger than Harribel? Lol, that's silly. It's pretty straightforward that he never challenged her to combat and, thus, wasn't killed because of it. Especially when you consider that Aizen was actively in Hueco Mundo at the time, meaning infighting was likely kept to a minimum.
I don't know.......
Nnoitra took on full-power Kenpachi and almost won......
Harribel could barely keep pace with Tōshirō of all people and eventually lost.
Ask yourself this.......could Tōshirō defeat Kenpachi?
@@truthspreader1996 toshiro kept up because of plot. Hallibel already blitzed toshiro when she was in her base form. But the plot nerfed her by having released hallibel unable to catch toshiro.
@@truthspreader1996 at that point in the series Hitsugaya vs Kenpachi could go to anyone
It didn’t help that Halibel was up against someone that perfectly counters her in pretty much every way. She controls water, Toshiro turns that water into ice, etc.
Come to think of it, this happened to a lot of the Espada. Zommari, Szyellaparro, and Halibel all got beaten this way.
They were all scissors and the soul reapers always had a rock.
Well, there’s a reason Aizen said they (Espada) were all failures.
Yeah, HM arc had quite few unfavorable matchups but at least it wasn't as bad as TYBW in that regard
this happens in all of bleach. kubo creats a ridiculously OP enemy, they beat on some people initially, to display their strength, then the person with the perfect counter comes along to beat them. or sometimes it just skips to the perfect person.
examples:
Rukia vs As Nodt. Rukia being able to "temporarily kill" her body to remove the effects of fear
Kenpachi vs Tosen. Kenpachi being one of the only characters who can just thug out that much damage. we see how broken tosens bankai is in Turn back the pendulum when he alone as a 5th seat takes down multiple captains and leitenants without them being able to do anything.
shinji vs every single one of his opponents. his shikai is objectively one of the most ridiculous in the series and he should be able to win most battles very quickly, but all of his opponents have the perfect counter. 1. be aizen. 2. be a person who direction doesnt matter to (bambietta)
soi fons shikai vs every important opponent. she fought BG9. didnt work cuz he just happened to be a robot who she cant penetrate. she fought aizen so ofc it didnt work. she fought barragan so ofc it didnt work there too.
Yeah, and even with that, Toshiro didn’t actually beat her, Aizen did because she was taking too long to win or lose. Toshiro only managed to stall Haribel after stealing her water to make up for his lack of power
@@tater8960 at least Soi Fon managed to kill one arrancar with her shikai but Shinji on the other hand.....
*TOMMO hard carrying bleach rn with all this glorious content*
tommo is greattt but if you are enjoying Bleach you dont even need TH-camrs
@@Zenosama_daishinkan*Nahh broo the thing is the wait for cour 3 is driving me crazy i cant wait for it but until it comes out i need content distraction which tommo helps with*
I can’t wait too that’s why I rewatch the show read the Manga there are always something new to find
bro theres so many bleachtubers out there too like simo urahara, jaymes, dbzimran, etc.
@@yasuhoismine1508 Tbh this are only the popular ones but sometimes the best are the ones with not much views
This fight, this fight right there, Hitsugaya X Halibel, was the moment I came to despise one character.
I really, really hate it when the author forces a character to win just because, or dumb down his opponent for no reason OR overpowers a character for him to win.
Yes, I'm looking at you too Kenpachi.
I think this fight just should have been longer and get rid of the ice clone, causing hitsugaya to almost die and then get healed by someone else giving haribel that moment of her doing actual damage (however on the other side hitsugaya didn't actually injure haribel once their whole fight as well and he had the hard counter)
@@bulbaa2241 This fight was one-sided before her ressurreccíon, and then, out of nowhere, the one-sided shifted to Hitsugaya's
The difference with Kenpachi is that you can expect him to turn things around. That's simply how he fights. He loves taking damage as much as he dishes it out. This is set up in the very first appearance of him against Ichigo. Tbh, he could really care less about dodging as long as he doesn't die from the hits lol.
With Hitsuguya, he doesn't plan on taking damage of course (like any sane person). We don't have the notion of him being some crazy pyscho with bloodlust. That should've been the end of the fight there. Or hell, they could've made Toshiro lose his arm and portrayed that although he was able to react, he couldn't move fast enough to dodge the swing entirely. We see that all the time in Bleach and I don't think I would've questioned it much if that's what ended up happening.
I'd wager Kenpachi would get up even after being cut in half lmao. At least that would be in character. Not the "Body Replacement Jutsu along with the reactions of the Flying Thunder God himself" type display that we saw lol.
That ice clone is EGREGIOUS 😭 c'mon Tosh, that's RIGHT out of Aizen's playbook
Yeah tbh it's less that Harribel doesn't deserve her spot, it's that Hitsugaya didn't deserve to get such an impressive showing after his two previous washes against the arrancar. The whole fight is just awful, neither side really hurting each other until she gets frozen lol.
disagreed, his experience with them makes him more deserved to get a cool feat of one of the top espada. Also he won both those earlier fights, i dont think they're as bad as people remember
What washes?
He only struggled against Shawlong due to the Limiter, he had an interrupted scuffle against Yammy, and he nearly killed Luppi if not for outside intervention (Negacion).
@@lordlittletoeq8537 yes, maybe in time. but to just spontaniously be significantly stronger than an opponent who is more than sinificantly stronger than the people you lost to before isn't how that should've played out.
@mashun9976 well, good thing that's literally not what happened
@@lordlittletoeq8537 but it is. it's actually stated in the video and he raises concerns to that exact point. toshiro thus far has shown nothing that would make him on her level. then mid fight he's just suddenly strong enough to fight her head on. fast enough to react and counter her. and then she gets a boost in power and nothing changed.
My thing about harribel is that her most powerful attack during the arc needed time to build up. Her and toshiro talked about how they were waiting for the atmosphere to fill with enough moisture to do their most powerful attack. Segunda etapa ulquiorra doesn't have that problem.
He could use lanza del rampago as much as he wanted. That alone is a massive disadvantage to her.
He was in Heuco Mondo
He also cant control it so he can miss. Also Ulq never used any projectile attack aside from Lanza that dwarfs Cascada which she can let off in a lesser amount of time and consistently.
He was in Heuco Mondo
Chain casting green nukes is pretty hard to counter by people who aren't Full Hollow Ichigo.
I feel like Ulquiorra’s ranking in the Espada with Segunda Etapa is one of those things that Kubo really needs to clarify in Klub Outside, otherwise I can imagine the debate would go on forever.
that's probably good for bleach if everyone always discusses it though
I thought he had. He said Segunda Etapa can be achieved by other Arrancar. By default, that means the ranking should be the same if they all activated it.
@iReiGNxx he said they CAN. Doesn't mean they did. Ulquiorras 1st release is 4, but where does his second release stack up to the other espadas?
@@ghhbpolo That doesn’t change their number order though. That’s like comparing one person’s shikai with another person’s bankai. He might be stronger than Harribel in that form, but it doesn’t make him #3.
If that’s not the point you’re making, then my mistake.
@@iReiGNxx I know. A big thing I don't get is why people ignore that ulquiorra is only ranked on his 1st release, then use his second release to claim the ranking system is wrong.
Her fight with Toshiro is easily one of the worst, weirdest fights I've ever read.
Short answer is that Harribel at worst would have been 4th Espalda not factoring in Ulquiorra's Etapa Secondo. She is significantly more versatile or more powerful than anyone else below him.
There are two things that must be noted as factors:
1. Hollows are stronger in Hueco Mundo than anywhere else
2. Their rankings were based on their raw power
Harribel was a Vasto Lord one of four in the army. Yami is entirely a mystery.
Harribel's skill set is honestly pretty good, she has coverage for multiple ranges, has shown the flexibility to be able to use all of the ranges, and most importantly can properly pace herself. This previously stated flexibility is also why ultimately she looks bad here. She doesn't have a plain broken ability or a stupidly high amount of power. She doesn't specialize in any one type of battle either. Hitsuguya was a horrible match up for her because although I would rank both him and Soifon as lower tier captain's power wise he is on the upper end of that scale and as mentioned in the video has a perfect counter. That said she still is in an awkward position because of her lack of specialty that she has issues with the captains.
In my heart she is always the number 3
I personally believe with his Segunda Etapa, Ulquiorra surpasses Harribel. Based on everything we’ve seen, it doesn’t seem like she’s overwhelmingly more powerful than him in 1st Ressurecion. He’s also got more going for him in Segunda Etapa with his insane speed, regeneration and power output. Seeing as how Harribel couldn’t easily overwhelm 2 Visored lieutenants in their Shikai, I can’t imagine Ulquiorra having the same issue considering he speed blitzed and humiliated Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo.
Yeah at best Ulquiorra elevates to the rank of 3 on par or surpassing halibel. I still dont see how he gets past starrk or barragan tho
@@thewarrior8497 Just stats tbh. His firepower is to high. Look at Soi fons bankai compared to Ulquiorra's he can for sure outspeed and destroy Barragan from afar.
Starrk is hard to say
his bankai wasnt a complete one though
@@natrell.awsome4711Neither was Toshiro’s
Tbh HM Ichigo was weak as shit until he learned FGT
People tend to forget that spiritual beings get a huge boost in an environment like the Hueco Mundo, with a high density of reishi, while those who fought in FKT were in the human world, not the same, this must be taken into account, but I can't deny that yes, Harribel didn't seem that much threatening anyway. Kubo did it dirty with the most of Espadas, as the shinigami went against their ideal opponent the most of times (we know), the same happened here against Hitsugaya's ice/water control, a big advantage on his side, but the point is indeed "perception", as the other Espadas, at least for a moment, cornered or put in difficulty the opponents, but except for a shocking start, the same didn't happen with Harribel (the anime gave a slightly different impression, but that's it).
The problems are the ones you mentioned, certainly a short clash, without incisiveness on her side, but also the fact that her opponent was Hitsugaya. I mean, until that moment (but it can be said, until the last part of TYBW), Toshiro was often regarded as one of the weakest captains, mainly for his feats up to that point (Aizen, Shawlong, Yammi, Luppi). Yeah, he froze former 6 but failed to kill him too, supposely the number 3 should have outmatched him low-diff, but not that much happened, until Hitsugaya's fluctuating management pulled out an overpowered avalanche from the sky to end it. Now, personally, unless to move quickly to avoid it, I don't think that other Espadas (or captains) would have performed better against the same attack, still ending up trapped in the ice, the problem is that there was no before, but not even after. Sorry if I mention a filler, but in the fight against Hitsugaya's reigai, Byakuya ended trapped in the Hyoten Hyokkaso as well, and he managed to break it from the inside on his own. I'm pretty sure that at least Barragan and Starrk would have done the same, but Harribel was disappointing for that too, whether or not she could have escaped without Wonderweiss is up to debate. And after that, her battle went even more in direction, keeping at bay a captain and two vizards lieutenants, but nothing else, until Aizen got bored. She didn't get a chance to shine in TYBW either, defeated by Yhwach (offscreen) and then forgotten, until CFYOW. I mean... damn Kubo.
I don't blame that much Harribel, I still believe she deserves her spot in the top4 in terms of raw power, trusting Aizen's judgment, but she doesn't have the most decesive fighting style, and yes, Ulquiorra was more antagonized, but overall he impressed more, even just by looking at his base form and first resurrecciòn (let's ignore segunda etapa, that's also hard to scale), so I don't care about the swap.
Had the Ice Clone thing not happened and Hitsugaya been taken out even temporarily to be healed, she'd have looked better in the long run even if the events played out the same upon his return.
These Espada debates have truly nailed home to me just how arbitrary and vibes based powerscaling is. Harribel may or may not be powerful enough to fill her position, and I lean towards the latter position, but that wasn't her narrative role, so she never showed it. The Hitsugaya fight wasn't the worst, but the two completely stalemated each other, which didn't do Harribel any favors when it came to showcasing her powers, and she was just truly done dirty in the TYBW. I hope Grimm and Nel rescue her in the anime, and she is able to kick some ass, like maybe even rescue Urahara.
On a semi-related note, I do like how Kubo is willing to fully commit to the bit when it comes to matchups. Hitsugaya and Harribel can mutually counter each other because water vs ice, so they do. Bazz-B destroys Hitsugaya because heat trumps ice. Uryuu gets beat the tar out of by Haschwalth because the Balance perfect counters the Antithesis. And so on
Yeah and the vibes seem to affect everyone's memory of what actually happen, like people here thinking Toshiro lost his fights with the other arrancar. Honestly though I think powes scaling is too infected from the idea DBZ power levels left in our collective mind.
The problem with Halibel's fight was that she struggled against Hitsugaya who's by far one of the least impressive captains in the Soul Society alongside Komamura. This is the same Hitsugaya we've seen who's got destroyed almost every time we've seen him except his fight against Gin when Gin was barely fighting back. He even struggled against a fracción like Shawlong and had to release his full power to beat a lowly fracción. At least Starrk who was almost as unimpressive fought one of the strongest captain in Kyoraku. If Halibel was fighting someone else like maybe Ukitake she'd be seen in a much better light.
Whilst I don't think she had an impressive showing by any means, saying she's the least impressive is also not right lol. Syazel was fighting way weaker opponents than Hitsugaya with Renji and Uryu and Aaroniero lost to a seated officer in Rukia. Yammy also hasn't done anything in the series except beat up Chad and an Ichigo with White interfering with his powers. I think 3rd is about right, you can move her to 4th but Ulquiorra looks far more impressive than anyone else in the Espada you can argue he should be 1st so it's not like that's a diss to Halibel. I can see her beating up Nnoitra and everyone below him.
My solution to the character is to just give her another opponent. Would have loved to see Ukitake vs Halibel maybe we could've seen his bankai too. He was doing nothing against Starrk and was mostly playing with Lilinette so it's not like he's needed there. Narratively it fits better too, 2/3 of the top 3 Espadas needed the 2 oldest and strongest captains besides Yamamoto and Yachiru Unohana to beat them. I'd keep Hachigen beating Barragan though since I have no issues with that fight.
Hey there MrTommo! Another fantastic job with you work here! Making good, key statement and showings of what the source material gives us. This alongside giving a fairly balanced look of the whole thing and bringing up exactly why these debates exist. I like to consider two schools of thought when approaching this topic myself.
--(Incoming rambling, a bit of a warning!)--
I consider my first thought of Aizen's placement: It is this genius of a man who gives us the placement of each Espada accordingly. He placed Harribel here for several reasons I'd say above all else: Her combination of attributes from power, intellect, cunning, and ability to adapt on the fly is what's at hand here. Her raw power is in fact, likely higher (in terms of raw reiatsu) than all those beneath her. And even when asked by Toshiro midway in the battle (To paraphrase from memory: 'You're only number 3 and this strong?' 'This strong? I don't recall showing that much power.'), it was confirmed she wasn't showing much of her strength. When she did, it easily overpowered Toshiro, it isn't to say she didn't have the skill/technique or raw power to put him down. Unfortunately (as stated by you, due to weird decisions with the way it played out) she was put out of commission by Aizen and not her actual opponents who never really beat her. I think that speaks enough (in terms of power), she wasn't really being pressured despite facing a Captain and Two strong Vizards.
The second school of thought I take to this is factor I don't think she showed her full array of skills (as Kubo's generic statement is blanket: power over water, does imply a lot of things) were ever fully shown. It does play to her strengths to not show all of her cards unless needed, I am certain she was considering crushing Toshiro with raw power rather than getting into her deeper talents. In truth given how conservative a fighter she is and some general unwillingness to go above and beyond to show off played against her. She likely fell victim to a combination of these factors and we were instead treated to a half show of what she can do. Given Kubo explained that Segunda Etapa is unlockable and also made it clear that Cero Oscuras is an ability of all Espada when released (though no one else ever used it, which bothers me): there's no reason to believe that Harribel herself can't do anything that Ulquiorra managed in terms of general Hollow/Arrancar abilities despite it not being shown.
I think she earned her position just find and to me, despite what little we were shown? The simple outlook of knowing she can achieve the same level of things as those below her, is why I feel she deserves her number three position.
Harribel is just one of those characters that mechanically clash with the Kubo’s artist choice of how he writes a fight. But the funny thing is… so does Tōshirō in a lot of his fights as well. I find all the arrancars above Ulquiorra outside of their character design to be disappointing mechanically. But the symbolism and the reflection they have to the opponents they fight is beautiful. I don’t think any of the 1-3 arrancar had their hearts in the fight. And so it’s hard to powerscale them. So the eye test is telling me Ulquiorra is the strongest arrancar because mechanically, meaningfully, thematically, there was reason to go absolutely all out against Ichigo even if it was “meaningless” to him.
Momo: "Toshiro, I didn't know you could make an ice clone"
Hitsugaya: "Honestly I got hit so hard I got slapped in the Naruto verse. Believe it."
It really comes down to writing, water has so much that you can do with it.
One thing I can say for Harribel is that water should be unaffected by Barrigan’s respira. You can age water as much as you want but it’s still water.
Water cannot be aged, but can be transformed given enough time when you incorporate entropic effects. Lets say that barragan can make his respira operate to age things up to 5000 years/second (which is hindering barragan because it seemed as though respira was instantaneous). if that is the case, then the water in harribel's attacks can be decomposed into diatomic hydrogen and oxygen gases, rendering her attacks completely useless.
@@vastolorde6194 Age doesn’t change the chemical bonds or change the state of matter water is in. That takes a controlled lab setting to separate the molecules and heat to change its form.
Since we're talking about Respira, let me just say that I absolutely hate this ability. It makes no sense. It'd be fine if it was just time acceleration, but if that was the case, it should affect everything it touches differently, according to the time it takes to deteriorate. Barragan just dissolves Soi Fon's arm, a building and a kidou in seconds. I believe it would be way better if his weakness were projectiles based on things that do not deteriorate over time like, just as someone said, water.
@@matheusbecker2351 I thought it was a unique ability for someone who looks like a skeleton. It makes sense why he saw himself as a god with his aging ability since it would affect almost anything. It’s not like time acceleration but more like rot like his release command for Arrogante. I’m not sure how much of a gap in power between the numbers 1-3 of the espada but if 3 isn’t that far below 2 then Harribel’s water should be able to reach and possibly injure Barrigan. Unless you’re someone like Genryuusai or Aizen who can probably just burn the respira or straight up ignore the ability entirely since their reiatsu is so much higher than everyone else.
Halibel being kinda meh was probably a behind the scenes issue. Kubo probably had bigger plans for the character but was probably under huge time constraints due to health and pressure from editors. I think at this point Bleach popularity was starting dip so he might have to told to cut something to make room for more prominent fights. He couldn’t cut the big 2, and ulquiorra was fighting the main character, so harribel got the axe.
Harribel was a victim of the 3 jizz brothers (Hitsugaya, Byakuya and Kenpchi). Usually mangas only has 1 golden child, in Bleach there are 3.
There are several simple explanations for a lot of misjudgments that come with Harribel, but I will open with this simple fact:
Yes. Harribel is stronger than Ulquiorra, outside of Segunda Etapa's ranking leapfrog. Simply think of her as faster, stronger, and more durable in sealed form and Resurreccion, relatively. Here's how things math out:
1. With regards to her pressuring Hitsugaya in base, that's because Toshiro's a combat genius. He was measuring himself, fighting at a level somewhere around the form he was at when he fought Luppi's Resurreccion: in this regard, you could consider Espada 3's base form somewhere around the equivalent of Substitute 6's Released Form (which, if you math that with Ulquiorra's base form vs Grimmjow's release form, lines up pretty well). Toshiro was simply baiting her into using stronger moves, keeping himself restrained because he knew she was going to get a LOT stronger.
2. Harribel's power ramps up the longer she fights, which would probably close the gap between her and Barragan (not directly, but give me a second), and would widen that between her and Ulquiorra. While Base Release Ulquiorra might be stronger than Base Release Harribel, after five minutes of her building up water, she's going to be beyond him. Which takes us to number 3:
3. She is the opposite of Barragan. His power is Destruction, the withering of life and the bringing of inevitable death; Harribel is Creation. The reiatsu she generates doesn't vanish, it persists. There's no indication that the water fades when she falls, either: it's quite possible that, given enough time, Harribel could turn Hueco Mundo itself into a lush paradise simply by catalyzing the reiatsu of sand into the form of water. To Hollows, and to Aizen, THAT is a power beyond any of them (Findorr may have a similar power, but he's operating on a much, much lower level than she is, sorry Crabcake). Any Espada can charge a Ball of Doom and shoot a laser beam that reduces stone to rubble: only Harribel can take the energy around her and build a lake. Even the clouds in Las Noches's artificial sky (were there clouds?) might have been formed by her. The water for the tea they drank? That was her gift.
4. While Wonderweiss's scream did break her out of the ice, I think it's also very significant that she emerged unscathed. Her Hierro and base energy were strong enough that she could be frozen in a crushing tower of ice that Hitsugaya assured her would be her demise, and she emerged with an expression of "Was that it?" He might have needed Yamamoto or Shunsui to deliver the death blow through the ice, because the strongest weapon in Hitsugaya's arsenal wasn't enough to crush and shatter Harribel's body. He drained his energy and left himself exhausted to accomplish what roughly amounted to the same victory Grimmjow claimed over Ulquiorra: a few hours of peace from his opponent's attacks. There was no healing from Wonderweiss. Aizen was unbothered by Harribel's showing. The outcome of that round of the Battle of Fake Karakura Town was simple: four Vasto Lorde Arrancars were enough to best four Captains and a Lieutenant, and even without the fourth, those five officers couldn't actually defeat the first three. Just because your Queen gets pinned doesn't mean that it's not still the most powerful piece on the board (or, in this case, the third).
5. Briefly touching on the ice clone, that was essentially Hitsugaya's version of Ichigo's Hollowfication and blocking Ulquiorra's strike...except that even blocking with his sword wouldn't have stopped her. He had to put up a screen of ice and fade behind it, using a trick that he had probably forged before the battle over hours, and it got popped in one strike. That, or he might have been using it from the moment he activated his Bankai (though the dialogue sounds like he activated the clone in response to her Resurreccion).
Also, her Cascada IS a tsunami. That's the power of a tsunami. Flooding buildings. Smashing cars everywhere. She's the ocean. That's what she does.
A few other mentions. You place Hitsugaya around Grimmjow level. That would be Ichigo's level too after his fight. Keep in mind Ulqiora was able to be hurt by Ichigo.
Next is the fact that Toshiro using the moisture and freezing it is what made it so that Harribel wasn't able to get as strong as she shouldve been.
Next is Ulqiora was in Hueco Mundo where hollows are given an extra boost in strength
Lastly is feats. Ulqiora was able to beat and kill Ichigo in his release after being wounded. Harribel was fighting two Vizord lieutenants and someone that scales around Masked Bankai Ichigo's level while also not being buffed by Hueco Mundo and came out completely unscathed until Aizen came in and even then he wasn't able to kill her.
Segunda Etapa can't be scaled however since it has no feats outside of providing Ulqiora with an ability he himself struggles to control for high amounts of damage. Starrk isn't even the fastest Espada when it comes to Sonido and he can travel all throughout Los Noches so Harribel evading LDR is quite possible.
Toshiro should have been using Ice clone a lot more lol
He says that he can only use it once per fight.
@@kevinbell5674 Obvious copout. It should have been more like Haku's ice mirror from Naruto.
@MrGksarathy Why? You're not seriously suggested Kubo should have ripped off Kishimoto wholesale?
@@kevinbell5674 I'm just saying that using the concept would be less half-assed than what Kubo did. Besides, you could argue poorly that the idea of an ice clone was taken from Kishimoto, but it definitely wasn't.
Why not get an inflatable clone instead?
Her technique is far more advanced than the lower ranking Espada- which are essentially the weird Hollow powers and energy-based weapons.
In contrast, hers is essentially a Shinigami elemental weapon than a Hollow power. It’s impressive but it’s overshadowed by the top 2 are much more esoteric and divine in nature in their abilities
Genuinely I think Ulquiorra being given a second form did a lot to damage the Espada. It's inclusion raised a lot of narrative issues like the whole "nobody knows about this form", why nobody else has this power, or why Kubo even gave him the initial form.
I feel like Kubo wanted Ulquiorra to be the 1st but realized it meant Ichigo wouldn't have a way of closing the gap, so he made him 4th, then realized it wouldn't seem satisfying as a rival/foe so gave him a second release.
This caused Harribel to become a victim of this change because she's supposed to be stronger than him but Kubo wanted her to fight Toshiro due to his popularity. So this made Harribel the weak link.
None of this is of course confirmed but it felt that way when I read it back in the day. Harribel should have easily beat Toshiro and fought someone like Ukitake.
I genuinely still feel Ulquiorra shouldn't have had a second form and it makes the Arrancar feel too inconsistent in power. Tragically she doesn't fit in the top 3 because of these choices and I really hate it. She deserved better.
Yup if Harribel was really portrayed to be stronger than ulquiorra she should’ve been able to easily one shot toshiro before he can even react and should’ve fought a high tier captain or a vizard captain
I honestly feel the problem isn’t Harribel, but the problem was when Kubo decided to make her opponent Hitsugaya who had an inconsistent showing in the Arrancar arc he doomed Harribel to come off as underwhelming in order to make Hitsuagay look strong. As mentioned Harribel in her base was easily overpowering Hitsugaya. Even when he released his bankai she was still easily showing herself to be his superior in her base. After she released her zanpkauto and the fake out clone bit Harribel suddenly stops using her superior power and speed and keeps doing the rock-paper-scissors match with Hitsugaya, where they keep canceling out each other’s powers. For whatever reason Harribel just never decides to speed blitz him again and cut through him or use basic hollow techniques, like cero or bala. The fight very much felt like it was designed to limit what Harribel could do to give Hitsugaya a shot at winning this.
That to me is where the problem lies. If Ulquiorra was made Espada #3 or even #1 and his opponent was made to be Hitsugaya we would have the same problem. Kubo would have wrote Ulquiorra in an underwhelming way to give Hitsugaya more of a shot at winning. That is nothing against Hitsugaya as a character, but the curse of being so popular and being shown in more fights in the Arrancar arc meant we saw him struggle to beat Yammy with his shikai alone and then take a serious hit from Luppi. While he won against Luppi in the end the fact Luppi could damage his bankai and Hitsugaya used a sneak attack to win, the fan perception was already Hitsugaya was somewhere around Espada 6-10 power level not anywhere near the top 3.
Harribel was one of the most logical and tactical espada. You dont need strength alone if youre level headed enough to keep up. Mind you she took on a Captain and 2 vizards and wasnt even breaking a sweat. Not even Stark handled that many at once.
one of the 2 weakest captains and the 2 weakest Vizards
@@MaxIronsThird doesn't matter. Also Hitsugaya was her direct counter and still didn't push her whatsoever.
Didn't Shunsui sneak attack Starkk while he was fighting Love & Rose? Lisa would become Captain after the Quincy Blood War & Toshiro Hitsugaya is supposed to someday rival Byakuya Kuchiki & Kenpachi Zaraki in terms of power. Harribel's fight lasted the longest we just never got to see a lot of it with Aizen slashing her after Starkk's Death.
@@MaxIronsThird The two weakest Vizords were running Bankai Ichigo for his pockets all throughout Ichigo's training and they weren't using Shikai like how Shinji didn't need Shikai to beat Grimmjow
@@Honest_Mids_Masher Ichigo was training 24/7 without rest, to master the hollowfication, while the others were rotating.
Hollow Ichigo beat the crap out of Byakuya and almost killed Hiyori in under a second after manifesting.
Shinji is clearly the strongest Vizard, it makes sense he's able to defeat base Grimmjow with just the mask and no Shikai.
THIS is just what we need.
Justification that the Espada's Ranking isn't exactly black and white.
It's really just Kubo's way of saying
"I'll let you guys explore the truth yourself"
Giving Ulquiorra a second release.
Maybe Kubo made Toshiro look so dominant in his fight to appease all the Toshiro fans
But the thing is... He didn't look dominant, Harribel was literally tossing him around the city in base alone and forced him to activate Bankai almost immediately. Yet right after she released, and killed his clone with an invisible attack that she never uses again, she can't seem to land any meaningful hits anymore because he plays keep away until he can just freeze her in one go.
Neither one of them looks good in this fight, everyone just looks pathetic and kinda dumb.
She deserves her status in her power and skill. Better than that, unlike most Hollows, she does not relish or revel in her power/abilities and is morally opposed to bloodshed and powermongering. She'd rather have peace and safety with her Fracciones while also being a tad shy. She's a beacon of light in a dark world who would fit in perfectly with Ichigo and company. Pity they have not met.
Indeed. Hueco Mundo is much better off with her as it's ruler. Also, the fact that Halibel is actually a bit shy is quite endearing.
She deserves to be the 3rd espada and if anyone says otherwise they listen to My Chemical Romance 🗣🗣
Morality≠strength
@@jrgenvellesen7800 Truth. If anyone is fit to lead it's her with others who share her rationality. The fact a measure of peace has arrived to Las Noches for the first time is all you need to know.
She is shy but she always wears something risque 😅
Your videos butter My biscuits thank you
kubo doing kubo things as per usual.
Like the guys art is amazing, but the fight match-ups are sometimes SO dumb it's just cringe worthy. Like THE ONE GUY who has THE exact ability to counter X enemy, faces said enemy.
Or idiotic things like when Yoiruchi fights askin in her cat form and urahara says some dumb crap about how a cats mood changes a lot of times within a short time span and thus so does her reiatsu so he can't get immune to it or some BS. Like....god how bad do you have to be to come up with that kind of bs?
As I've said in every video covering the Top 3 Espada fights, they could've easily been handled better without disrespecting their power:
Harribel defeats Toshiro with the single swing, then have her engage Yamamoto and be defeated by his Shikai, albeit keep it from being a small fight since this is number 3 we're talking about. Since she easily defeated a captain and it took some effort from the Captain Commander to take her down, this would've been a good way to establish the idea "There's still 2 Espada more powerful than this one!"
As for Harribel's water abilities, there's so much that could have been done in theme with this. For basics, pressure cutter projectiles, boiling streams, and something that could've made her more interesting is giving her the ability to dive into the air itself, concealing her presence between the human world and garganta, making her momentarily impossible to track or damage and allowing her to ambush her prey.
Have Hiyori and Lisa fight against Gin so that Shinji vs Aizen can begin immediately, and actually drag out for a while.
Barragan should've killed Omaeda since Kubo had no real use for him at any point in the story. Hachi and Soi Fon should've been losing after landing the missile on his face. No magical "Oh, you aren't immune to your own aging powers" plot-twist since it makes no sense for an AGELESS BEING to be affected by Respira. Instead, while Barragan is contemplating how he should finish off Soi Fon and Hachi, he attacks Aizen while he is fighting Shinji. Aizen tricks Barragan and Shinji into wounding eachother, and Barragan is finished off by Aizen.
Stark's fight could remain mostly the same. But instead, have Love and Rose taken out of the fight by the time Shunsui ambushes Stark. Stark still gets wounded and plays the demon color game, but Shunsui is unable to defeat Stark with just his Shikai, so he lures Stark away from the others, to the edge of the barrier, where he unveils his Bankai and defeats Stark between chapters as to not reveal its power to the viewers.
While not perfect, this would have been a much better way to handle the top 3.
And if we needed Toshiro to be brought back for the Hinamori twist, he could be recovered off-panel by Hachi during the time he started healing Hiyori.
Huh, that's different from my scenario but I like it. Shame that Starrk had to be offscreened though but how else could you have kept to Kubo's vision of saving up some of the most important Bankai in the final arc without making the Espada look weak so I get the decision.
I do remember reacting the ice clone part and I was like "Are we reading Naruto? This is just the wood substitute jutsu but with ice!" 😂
I wanna believe that Aizen chose his rankings based off initial impression of reiatsu control and not potential. I think during the final war with the soul society he was gauging everyone’s potential for the first time. When he watched his team gradually get beaten he realized their potentials weren’t what he hoped. That war was an experiment and his team was getting beaten before all the soul reapers used their Bankai. He probably concluded they were not strong enough to beat soul society and knocked out Haribel himself because he didn’t expect anything more from her.
Been saying it for years, Harribel deserved so much more
Probably the most annoying thing is Harribel likely could've shown herself as more capable if she used other abilities outside of her water powers. Seriously, why didn't she use Bala, Cero or hell a Gran Rey Cero when she saw using Water against Hitsugaya was at best a cancel out situation?
Also logically she should've been faster and way stronger given that Ichigo who is probably comparable to Toshiro got the shit kicked out of him by Ulquiorra in just his norrmal released state.
Ichigo(hollowfied) at this time is definitely quite a bit stronger than Hitsugaya.
Bankai Ichigo =~ Bankai Hitsugaya < Hollowfied Ichigo(classic Mask)
@@MaxIronsThird Yeah, people dont realize how powerful Ichigo was even from SS arc, he was mentally nerfed in Hueco Mundo, not power nerfed.
Aside Grimmjow (and i guess Luppi in CFYOW) not a single Espada remember about Gran Rey Cero which always seems weird to me (same thing about Cero Oscuras)
@@user-be9gw9je3h i dont remember quite well about cero's versions, wasnt cero oscuras unique to Ulquiorra?
@@mikeparradise9333nah he said that Cero Oscuras can be used only by Espada in their Ressurection form (and iirc in manga Yammy was gonna use it against Ichigo but he cancelled his blast)
I'm starting to think Kubo has something against water 💧 type zanpakuto, whereas ice 🧊 types get better treatment. Kaien Shiba (Aaroniero), Harribel, and Findorr Calius 💧 didn't do so well. Rukia and Toshiro ❄️ fared much better.
Hope that improves though
Starrk should have been the one to stay alive tbh. Honestly, I love her, but she didn't do anything for the story aside for her aspect of death bringing a bit of depth to her character.
My thing with Starrk is, people shxt on him so much as a character and his position because of how little we got and that it was kinda underwhelming compared to the Espada in Hueco Mundo, but all I have to say is that, Starrk didn't even fight with his all because he didn't want to fight in the first place. He even said it to Shunsui and yet he still fought and held his own against 4 captains and almost forced Shunsui into releasing his bankai if it wasn't for Jushiro stopping him.
It all boils down to Hitsugaya having that clone nonsense and Kubo wanting to rush the plot between Ulquiorra's fight and Aizen's fight. I think it also has something to do with Kubo wanting to keep Harribel alive so she couldn't have killed Hitsugaya and then later received mercy from Soul Society so he set it up for her not to kill anyone and then be betrayed by Aizen.
You should eventually make this video for yammy😂he definitely was not done justice for being “the strongest espada” but gets offscreened by 2 mid tier captains. The databooks say it was a really tough fight but that’s not whats shown. Anyways I know you already did a video on yammy in the past but just an idea
He's done that already
@@ghhbpolo oh alright. Just a shame how badly kubo fumbled yammy. Many fans aren’t convinced hes the strongest and i cant blame them
@@thewarrior8497 Well he did turn into the 0 Espada and had a second transformation like Ulquiorra and the 2nd databook Masked confirms that he is the strongest but I can see your point. Offscreening doesn't help major characters.
@@kanoreese1253 yep. Plus the fact kenny called the battle boring. That could be a post battle cocky attitude from him but he seemed to enjoy and struggle more with Nnoitra
@@thewarrior8497I think the most logical answer to kenpachi calling it boring is that it was a 2v1. Zaraki hates fighting alongside others.
To be fair, Starrk, Barragan and Harribel were in Karakura Town, where reishi's concentration is wayy lower than in Hueco Mundo
I dare to say that Ulq had a considerable boost during his final fight against Ichigo and some people doesn't know
This fight without plotarmor:
Hitsugaya: It's over. I can freeze your water.
Harribel: *charging up a gran rey cero* Freeze this, casual!
A note that 4 has a history of being a “cursed number” in Japan. The symbol for 4 is extremely close to the one for death, so it’s seen as a bad omen, similar to the number 13 in other places. It’s very common for older buildings in japan to even skip the number 4 when numbering the floors. So it is possible that Ulquiorra being 4 might be a small nod to him being stronger than his rank
While I love Hallibel's design, she is the most questionable Espada in terms of strrngth in the Pre-Timeskip.
I feel the fact that Yammy in base made Hitsugaya go into Bankai faster than Hallibel.
And when Ulquiorra was threatening Orihime, you see a panel of Hitsugaya meaning Ulquiorra was not intimidated by him at all.
And while Kenpachi is inconsistent to rank in terms of strength during the Arrancar Arc, I feel Nnoitra being able to damage him enough where he questioned he might die if he wasnt careful, is more impressive than being relative to or slightly stronger than Hitsugaya.
At most I feel Hallibel was maybe around the same strength as say Grimmjow or Nnoitra but her Water Abilities could have some utility in some matchups but nah, Ulquiorra even lowballing him is absolutely stronger than Hallibel.
I feel like with Yammy making toshiro go bankai is because of that restriction that soul reapers place on themselves when they go to the world of the living
Tier Harrible just had a bad match up because Toshiro wss pulling out haxes to counter her. The fact that she was fighting Toshiro and 2 Lieutenant level vizords without sustaining any injuries is an indication of how strong she is. Harribel is a bad match up for Ulquiorra and I doubt that she would sustain any injuries from any of his attacks.
@@kos-mos1127 I doubt water would stop Ulquiorra at all, in his first release a Bankai Ichigo's Full Power Getsuga couldn't even touch him lol
@@bkgocrazy6607 Good Argument but as we saw here, Toshiro under Gentaikaiojou at that point was probably below Shawlong, and unless he got significantly stronger in a few weeks. He can go from below Shawlong to being able to give Luppi trouble while at like 20% power? While Luppi's strength is questionable, he was ranked Espada #6 which means his combat ability has to be at least above Zommari in terms of raw power.
I feel like some factors are being overlooked.
One water powers are being slept on cause they have crazy range of abilities!!! Yes she did get the worst opponent she could fight but you gotta remember at least she did damage to Hitsugaya. Despite the one opening he got on her with the ice tower, Hitsugaya couldn’t land any damaging attacks on her. Then he even got assistance from two Visors that used their Hollow mask and none of them landed an attack on her! I know it was a constant standstill since she didn’t do much damage to them either but the fact she was at a huge disadvantage of type match ups and multiple opponents, Harribel stood her ground and proved she’s an insanely skilled fighter verses the other Espada no matter the odds. Her resilience is her strongest trait and is backed up by her backstory (which I know is anime only) where she wants to get strong so there doesn’t have to be needless sacrifices (ultimately making her my fav Espada and Bleach character). She only got hurt when Aizen betrayed her! Even Ywach had to step in to beat her cause he knew her resilience was insane! 😂
Match her up against Nnoritora or any below him they aren’t gonna get any hits on her and her water powers are way more effective against them than Hitsugaya. Ulquiorra is the only one that’s truly debatable but I honestly feel like he wouldn’t be able to land a hit on her either.
She definitely could have focused more on using her Cero attacks than her water attacks or even using an awesome combination between the two, but unfortunately Kubo was not that creative with her skill set which is a shame.
Personally I still believe she’s worthy of 3 and she just REALLY needs a better fight to show off her powers and skills. 👍
My answer to that is always the same...he didn't defeat her in power, he captured her in a place she couldn't escape from alone. So, seems fine.
Edit: Also a common thread I think everyone forgets about the top Espada fights...they all cheat to win. Shunsui admits that he avoided telling Starrk all of the rules to his shikai games. Likewise they use Baraggan's own ability against him. And Harribel gets caught and is unable to escape.
I agree with you. She was completely uninjured in her fight against toshiro. It was dragged on.
Except he shouldn't have been able to do that, If Harribel was as fast or faster than Ulquiorra Toshiro should've been dead long before he had a chance to set up his Flower Prison trick.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 unless her heart wasn’t in it. It’s hard to really gauge the true nature of hollows when there are hollows like Nel who are an anomaly to hollows. Harribel could very well be one of those characters that we’ll never see go all out using multiple types of ceros and balas in her disposals… or even sonidos
@@thefanwithoutaface8105he almost did die before that attack if it wasn’t for his ice clone
@@cj5476 Which was a bullshit, can only use once, ability Kubo made up to save his ass.
I think instead of the ice clone malarkey, Toshiro got his arm sliced off. Then he uses his ice to make a replacement arm to fight with.
Harribel is the perfect example of great character design with bad writing. it was so frustrating
" great character design"!?
Hmmmmmmmm🤔
My harribel love is really strong💛
You mean lust.
@@akumaking1 you only speak for yourself
@@Bambaguetta925_ nah. About 99% of the fans of Bleach female characters are strictly in the hornsdog/shipping category
@@akumaking1No they're not. Not everyone has same mentality like you
@@akumaking1 how you would know
Harribel deserves her place only reason people disagree with the ranking is because they got bad matchups or didn’t use their full power and uiqiorra having segunda
Findor Carias had cooler water powers than Harribel and he was a blondie crab.
How did Toshiro’s ice clone bleed when cut in two?
Because Kubo's writing.
@@marctm7614 if Toshiro just received a gash used ice as makeshift first aid that part of the fight would be better imo
Yeah she deserves so much more. After all she's my favorite.
Hey man I’ve been watching your videos for years, and just now realized you only have 245k subs. Your content is always so well done man. I’m going to try and help boost your numbers.
Add this point he needs to make how to fix top 3 Espada video.
Barragan should have killed the 3 He was fighting it would have made a lot more sense
All of 3 top espadas were kinda diappointing
Indeed, only Ichigo's opponents (Grimmjow and Ulquiorra) were truly impressive and Nnoitra lucked out by fighting Kenpachi - who is always given a great showcase.
Barragan lived to his hype imo
He really lost in a more different way, but at least looked strong
Stark being number 1 is hard but being the top leads to easy disappointment
The fight was to make Hitsugaya look good and make Starrk want to release to see a bankai. The only explanation imo.
It gets even weirder when you realize that Lisa and Hiyori, shikai + mask, and Hitsugaya couldn't even land a hit on her. She had basically stalemate them.
What happened was that Hallibel just had a bad match up
We keep revisiting this topic very often Lol
I always thought harribel should be able to take on 4-5 captains at once
"In a fight right?"
Kubo nerfed Harribel because he wanted to showcase how strong Aizen was.
@@MaxIronsThird😏
That would actually put her on Starrks level lmao then people would be debating whether she's number 1 or not
@@Honest_Mids_Masher Harribel fights in a way that she wears down her opponent.
I honestly think that Loves Bankai would be something like Kenpachis.(Due to his Zanpakuto seemingly being mainly a offensive weapon). Maybe his bankai makes him go Rampage.
I remember literally screaming when i found out it was an ice clone like come on thats one of the biggest ass pulls till date in bleach
Hitsugaya had to use his strongest ability to only trap her. And despite fighting 3 Captain level opponents simultaneously, Halibel never got a single scratch in her entire career until Aizen stepped in. Her release had enough offensive power to one-shot Hitsugaya in his Bankai with brute force. The manga made sure to never show Hitsugaya block any of her attacks head-on after she released, for it would result the same way it did for his ice-clone, an effortless one-shot with a regular swing in his general direction.
Facts
But she's the no.1 waifu though.
Yoruichi: Hello there
I hope the ad money is good cause dam a 3 minute intermission is crazy.
It almost feels like an editor stepped in between the Hitsugaya sliced in half chapter and the next, since Toshiro was so popular they might've told Kubo to keep him in the fight.
-
Just a random idea, nobody read this as a fact!
She was able to survive a sword strike from Aizen which is a better feat than any of the other Espada but she held back considerably against Toshiro, Lisa and Hiyori. She should have blitzed them all if she was truly as strong as her rank suggests.
a half dead Ichigo did the same in the SS arc
@@MaxIronsThird Aizen held back on purpose then. Aizen said that Ichigo was his experiment that he wanted to see grow. That's not a feat.
@@SunlightGwynjust because he wanted hallibel out of the way doesn't mean it was his full power swing. Just that hallibel survived the amount of power aizen THOUGHT was needed to bring her down.
Speed doesn't scale with ranks, Zommari (7th) is the fastest and Starrk (1st) is near the top, yet Yammy (0th) has almost no mobility feats whatsoever. Harribel has no particular speed feats and nothing indicates that she could blitz them.
@@marctm7614 Starrk and Ulquiorra are clearly faster than Zommari.
Harribel was just pur against a opponent, a Captain no less, who hard counters her.
But nothing Hitsugaya did actually damaged her and she was slowly wearing him down
It was a mutual stalemate, but it did Hitsugaya's reputation more favors because he already had a fanbase and a concrete skill floor to rise above.
It’s odd to say this because Kubo has come up with a lot of truly creative abilities, BUT his lack of creativity is what ruined Harribel. Water abilities are crazy! I truly expected her to be able to mummify people by ripping the moisture out of their bodies if she cut them. She could have used water the same way Byakuya uses Senbonzakura…pressurized raindrops to slice up the opponent, water shields, water prisons, combining water with ceros to make super heated stream. I was waiting for something truly cool, but Kubo really dropped the ball with her!
Before watching I’m gonna say she deserves her placement since there weaker outside of los nochess along with the fact, I don’t think her heart was really in the fight she had. Plus she also survives two cuts from aizen
Harribel was definitely stronger than Ulquiorra in their first release at least, the second is a different story. The misconception of Harribel being weaker than Ulquiorra is her performance against Toshiro. People seriously underestimate Toshiro.
People point out that Harribel was doing better in base then Started to underperform in resurrection. But there's actually a very logical reason for that.
Toshiro's power is to command all water. Her resurrection essentially made Hitsugaya strong enough to take her on. Hitsugaya doesn't need a lot of Reiatsu to control water when there's already water in the environment and Harribel gave him that weapon.
Ulquiorra on the other hand has an advantage in the sense that as confirmed by Kubo, hollows actually do in fact get a power boost while in hueco Mundo.
Harribel should be stronger than 1st release Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra might be stronger in segunda etapa.
To be fair, she is much weaker than Barragan and Starrk. Even back when they were still Vasto Lorde hollows, it's obvious who's far stronger.
Exactly! All facts! Glad you brought up the hueco mundo boosts espada get, so many people dismiss it
Yeah but no, there is no logical reason. Water has nothing to do with the fact that she just one shotted him after her resurreccion, yet somehow, after the ice clone, hitsugaya can keep up with her
@@tartopomme8946 There's actually another good reason. Hitsugaya even stated it himself lol. He wasn't going all out before he got one shot. He said she was underestimating him. And it's true, she was underestimating him.
Even in CFYOW, Harribel actually does compare Hikone in his first appearance to Hitsugaya at the time she fought him. So yes, he wasn't going all out. Minus Ichigo, Hitsugaya is also a prodigy with the second fastest growth rate in the entire series. Also, Harribel was clearly faster than Hitsugaya throughout the fight hence why she could suddenly cut his clone in half. Hitsugaya was making up for it using tricks and feints and kept his distance for majority of the fight. But people tend not to notice details like this.
Harribel’s situation isn’t herself but a byproduct of the dated standards of Shonen Manga that is slowly changing- that girls can show off their skills but it’s ultimately the boy’s show and the former can’t completely overshadow the latter.
It used to be worse in earlier decades, but it’s an admitted flaw in the shonen demographic for the vast majority of the series with scant exceptions.
Hitsugaya is talented, and can control the weather, maybe he had the ability advantage against her. 👍
Harribel suffers from both being a woman in a shonen manga, and a character who is around past her faction's importance (which repeatedly is a bad sign in this series). But her main problems with showing her power are the missed opportunities with both what the nature of her power is, as well as how and where she used it against.
On the note of her power not comparing to others of her rank, I think the better way to go about it would be to explain that her power also has strong control over the water in a living body, including her opponents', but actively chooses not to use it. Her death aspect, Hollow hole location, and even her Fracciones' team ability has some connection to what a body can do. Her having control over the element of life would be a great contrast to Barragan's control over death energy, and Stark's control over neutral energy. It would also make for a nice contrast to Yamamoto's use of fire (especially with his Bankai). And, it could even explain a bit about her value to Aizen's machinations. Hypothetically, Kubo could explain that while Aizen can create complete illusions, he can't alter existence on a molecular level, so Harribel could always know where he actually is by knowing where the water in his body is.
Harribel has also been done a disservice by the caliber of her opponents.
1) There's simply no reason any of Hitsugaya's abilities should've worked on Harribel, considering she has temperature control over water. Really, Hitsugaya should've been the easiest opponent around for her to beat. And she absolutely should've been able to free herself. Wonderweiss' interference didn't even make sense.
2) Hitsugaya should've lost for any reason other than popularity, and she could've moved on to the next opponent. Unfortunately in FKT, two of her opponents are other women around past their faction's importance, so they didn't have a good showing either. Considering Lisa was on the cusp of being a captain, Harribel fighting two Visored and a captain could've been a good opportunity for the Visored to show off and yet still be overwhelmed by Harribel, but it didn't happen.
3) Harribel also lost too quickly against Aizen. Considering she really shouldn't have taken any lasting damage from the opponents she fought, maybe her defeat was used to hype Aizen up more, but the way it happened, it looks just like Kubo rushing.
4) Harribel's only other "fight", against Ywach, could've also been an opportunity to at least show her putting up a fight. She was woefully overmatched, and she's literally out of her element in Hueco Mundo (despite being its queen, it's a desert), but having at least a decent showing of getting some hits in against Sternritter while trying to multitask with evacuating her people could've been nice.
Harribel also could've benefited from having more of a "reluctant warrior" portrayal, like Kyoraku and Stark did. Instead of looking like she was dragging her feet, she just looked inferior.
Agreed
She's certainly not weak, given how she, early in, managed to dominate Toshiro in Bankai while she's in base. However, her performance after she powers up is significantly less impressive and leaves much to be desired afterwards.
She never impressed me the way Bambietta did. Harribel struggles to take down one of the weaker captains and two Vizard former lieutenants, while Bambietta one shots Shinji and only loses to Sajin due to immortality nonsense.
Still, I can easily see her overwhelm the likes of Nnoitra and Grimmjow, due to superior sword skills
The Lieutenants got a boasts from hollowfying. Harribel did not get injured by any of them despite being 3 on one. She was defeated by Aizen and plot.
I think its pretty clear based on espada 5 and 7 that that the espada ranks probably are based by spiritual pressure which while important doesn't fully translate to actual ability. Espada 7 has the fastest sonido (whatever that means) and espada 5 has the hardest hard on for.... i mean hardest hierro. Ulqquiora through out the series demonstrates excellent proficiency in all hollow based abilities and seems to take pride in that. His fight with ichigo is both a demonstration of the raw power of espada 4 but also his own personal ability to wield that power. Furthermore ichigo really dug something out of him, ulquiorra was definitely taking their fight personally, and their battle had been hyped for awhile and needed to be dramatic. These facts make scaling the top 4 espada really difficult and I'm fine with that
Ulquiorra and Starkk are way faster than Zommari.
Bankai Ichigo is faster than Byakuya and Byakuya was as fast if not faster than Zommari, meanwhile Ulquiorra was blitzing masked Ichigo like crazy, in his first ressurection, in Segunda Etapa, Ichigo couldn't even see him, Starkk in one jump came from out of nowhere, touched down a meter away from both Ichigo and Kenpachi, took Orihime and fled, they couldn't even pursue.
Starkk probably has the fastest sonido.
Please reread, nothing you said contradicted anything I said. Also ss arc byakyu isn't hw arc byakuya.
Espadas r ranked on reiryoku. This is the amount and HOW their rieatsu is used in various abilities. So it's still basically overall power, which define strength.
"Espadas r ranked on reiryoku" perhaps.
"Is the amount and HOW their rieatsu is used" that is definitely NOT true.
@lordlittletoeq8537 reiryoku, by definition, is a power aligned with the spiritual sensitivity and willpower of the user. So yes, it culminated in tge creation of their abilities, not just amount of rieatsu.
Considering the fact that Kubo kept her alive it makes sense that they made her less threatening. Otherwise people would not want Harribel to be rescued.
Maybe Hitsugaya's ice power was a perfect match for her power.
Her powers are so unique and cool she needs more screen time 🦈🦈🦈
Unique? Dude her power is summoning and throwing water at people, that's one of the most basic powers you can get, and it wasn't even unique for this arc of Bleach as The 9th Espada could use a Zanpakuto that also created water.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 tbf that zanpakuto belonged to kaien, Aronierro just stole it alone with his body lmao
Kubo misusing a female character, that's. . .not surprising at all.
kubo is literally one of the best writer to write female cast lol. he literally wrote the best female anime character of all time
The espada besides ulqiorra where all disappointments. Nnoitora got spanked by nel and was toyed with by kenpatchi. 😊
@@jouskehigaskita8835 nel is espada
@@yasuhoismine1508 she is an ex-espada
Haribel had such a cool design and the lead up to her fight was excellent! I am inclined to agree she definitely should have had a better showing and would have loved for her character to have been able to shine. Thanks for the analysis!
I think alot of the time in anime Water users are greatly under estimated and the authors do not seem to think creatively enough with what someone who controls water can actually do. Harribel can control water, conjure water, and even boil water. They could have given her many sinister abilities. Example say she conjures a water prison trapping her victim and not only drowning them but heating up that water to boiling. basically boiling them alive. Depending on how deep her control goes they could've had her be able to pull the water out of her Opponents body, or heat the water in their body. Even Avatar did Water wielders better, with the whole blood bending idea since Blood is mostly water. I would just love to see a truly terrifying water user that has a bit more creative uses
The biggest issue though is who Harribel is fighting, at this point in the series Toshiro was easily the weakest of all the Captains. He wasn't as intelligent as Mayuri, wasn't as fast Soifon, wasn't as skilled at kido as Unohana and Byakuya, wasn't anywhere near as physically strong as Kenpachi or Komamura or as experienced as Shunsui or Ukitake orYamamoto.
Harribel should've demolished him in a matter of minutes.
He was having a difficult time against Luppi.
That's YOUR misconception about Hitsugaya, and a misconception held by the fandom for some odd reason.
Not as smart as Mayuri, not as fast as Soifon, not as physically strong as Komamura and Zaraki...you DO realize that applies to MOST of the Captains...including the other names you mentioned. And yet, Mayuri, Komamura and Soifon are not the strongest Captains either.
For example, Byakuya is ALSO not as smart as Mayuri, is ALSO slower than Soifon and ALSO physically weaker than Komamura and Zaraki. But you'll never hear people calling HIM the weakest Captain, now would you?
@@RGA301092 Toshiro isn't especially good at kido, flash step, hand to hand combat or even swordsmanship. His primary asset is his Zanpakuto power, that's the main reason he's the weakest without that he's basically screwwed.
i still think the only reason barragan is number 2 is because aizen wanted to mock him, it fits his character perfectly
Fact! The numbers themselves have double meaning. It’s like leading the donkey with a carrot.
What makes Harribel an interesting character in my opinion is that she became a Vasto Lord without consuming other hollows to gain more power, unlike Grimmjow for example who had to eat over 3000 hollows to reach Vasto Lord level power. Also the fact that she was fighting in the world of the living put her a quite the disadvantage, unlike Ulquiorra and Nnoitra whose fights took place in Hueco Mundo where the hollows are naturally stronger. Harribel’s fighting style is also suited to fighting in the desert, water doesn’t naturally occur in hueco mundo that’s why her power allows her to create water instead of manipulating the water around her like hitsugaya. That’s why she was caught off guard when hitsugaya started manipulating the weather. I think if she wouldn’t have been cut down by Aizen I think she would’ve eventually overpowered hitsugaya and the others
she will always be number 1 in my eyes ✨💜
I wish Kubo could rewrite the entire FKT arc. Some matchups were just really bad. Toshiro throughout the entire series was seen as a pushover type of character, but he’s going up against number 3? Also Soi Fon vs Barragan was a weird and uninteresting matchup.
Tom you should make a video where you discuss what match ups you would’ve done, and the outcomes of each fights.
Considering how ancient he was Barragan should've fight against Yamamato, it would make him look a lot better (even if he would definitely lose to his shikai)
The starrk fight needed WAY more stakes than it actually had. Even if it was to show their personality, the whole fight still basically just a power display on both sides.
Love the videos, hope the missus feels better soon. Keep up the great work brother!