How I replaced subframe bush (lower engine mount) - VW, Skoda, Seat, Audi.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ส.ค. 2019
- Here is the link to relevant page at our website (also available in printer friendly PDF format):
www.wheelsandmotors.com/manua...
Here's link to eBay search page with that tool from the video:
rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-53...
And here's the link to our website, where you can find lots of info of how to fix and maintain this car:
www.WheelsAndMotors.com/ - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I went to do a full set of engine mounts on a customers car, about $1200 estimate. And I discovered that this mount had been replaced a short time before, then I discovered that whoever replaced that mount failed to tighten the subframe bolts, I replaced the bolts with new ones and put blue loc tight on them, and the car is good to go. Saved the customer some money is always a better win in my book.
Cool. Whats the usual labor for this sub frame mount only ? Got couple of extremely high quotes. Rest of the mounts are less than a year old so only this one as I see the jerk from park to reverse
I puted new all new mounts engine and gearbox and still bogging on takeoffs
Hi !
Glad to see your job again !
Thanks ;)
This is the funniest video to watch high, so many updates lmao
:))
@@wawayltd how much u.s. dollars to do this job? How much time does it take? Ty
It depends who does it. Some garages have special hydraulic tool that fits bushes in seconds.
I have no idea how much it costs, sorry.
@@wawayltd so you don't know how long it took yourself to do it? 🤷
At the same time I was replacing EGR unit (my another video). Together with filming it took whole day and half of another one. Filming eats a lot of time - it can easily double or triple actual work time.
I didn't do EGR without filming yet, neither that bush. I can only guess how long it would take me. In addition - I'm not a mechanic, I would expect mecahnic with proper ramp and special tools to do it much quicker. Also, while working on my car - I like to take some time with no rush to make sure everything is happy. Therefore my answer doesn't change - I really don't know!
Thank you for your film, very informative as I had not seen this bush set out of the subframe before, and the tips to put new ones back in will be useful :-)
You're very welcome 😊👍
What about freezing it to shrink it ?
That could work, although it may warm up quickly.
I recommend warming the bush first, does wonders to the flexibilities of the nylon.
Good point 👍
Nice tool set, also you can make one from scrap lying around garage. Its just thread and bolt's with different diameter plates and cilinders. Put some old VW shock mount bearings for smoothnes and you have same thing.
Good video, very useful to know, I've had my sub frame (belly plate) off twice in three years, first to do with the spacers you've shown, making sure they go back on and not left off.. I was getting a creaking sound, caused by my old main bolts reaching their max yield point with being so-old, the belly plate was rubbing against the chasis.
Second time was becasue of the ARB bushings so had to reaplce those by taking the whole assmebly out and fabbing new mounts then putting on PU bshings.
I went out and bought a second hand belly plate with a good engine mount in it, luckily' so I won't need to press a new one in place BUT I just might while I'm at it because it's not something I want to be doing any time soon, with not knowing the age of the mount and other spcifics.
I'll be replacing the srpings too (McPherson strut) while I'm at it.
I reckon with the size of those gaps at in the engine mount to where the plastic outer is.. I'll be packing the gaps out with a soft rubber (so no to cause excessive vibration) becasue that looks like quite a distance for the bolt in the centre to travel while the engine contorts under load, only seems correct to me!
If only the weather would improve here, I'd get started!!
Hope your'e well and thank you again!
Thanks Jem, good luck with all that ☝️😊👍
Jem Mace no need for muck you can buy a engine mount insert for £20. Different poly grades.... this was unnecessary drama
Been waiting for this one. I did think about buying one of those kits off ebay, but diameter werent big enough. But i see it worked for you. Great video as usual !!! Ive used hole saws to get those in. Its a tricky job.
Thanks, I hope this tool set will be useful in the future.. Wow - hole saw? How?
@@wawayltd bought 3 holesaws. Grinded teeth off so its like round metal colar like your kit. 95mm used to put the bushings insidr to stop them twisting and used threaded bar with washers and nuts. Hard to explained but it worked.
@@wawayltd I have same set, those rods are carbage, i have broke 3 of them allready. Cylinders are great for working with hydraulic press.
@@dot7107 Well - that's promising 🙄😆
@@wawayltd They might work well with plastic bushings but with bushings with metal outer ring I managed to break 3 of them. Thinnest one I haven't even tried... I have to find better quality rods. Allthough idea is good
Great video. One weeks ago i have this same problem with this subframe Bush.
Did it work?
What was the symptom?
Lots of big cracks
@@wawayltd any wobbling while driving?
Probably it depends how bad it is, in my case I didn't feel anything.
Well done sir trial and error but you got the result in the end,that's all that matters
Never give up 😉👍
I've taken VW bearings to a garage to have them pressed... Like £10 saves on buying the tool for a once every 4 year job 🤣 good video thanks....im gonna do my ARB bushes too me thinks
Nice one 👍
what an amazing video
Thanks 👍
Buen trabajo amigo.
Es bueno trabajar la carcasa de aluminio para facilitar la entrada, solo el que teda el problema que es uno de los tacos de plástico.
Hahahaha, i am having same issues. Now I was in the phase of grinding the bushing,but that was not sufficient. Now I am going to try with pry bar, good idea :)
Thanks 👍 I hope you're having fun with this 😁
What size threaded rod did you use ?
That job looks painful. Thankyou for showing us how to do it.
Do you think a jubilee clip would help to keep the plastic outer in round?
I didn't think about that. If you try, please let me know 👍
Where did you buy the bushings from. Are they OEM? And how did they perform after installation?
Firstly I didn't even know there are 2 bushings 😁... I saw there are cracks, so I went to GSF to buy "subframe bush", so they sold me one (lower). Then I realized that there needs to upper one as well. I don't understand why are they sold separately! GSF didn't have upper one in stock. I think I got the upper one from TPS - that's why they look different in the video. After installation bushings seem to be happy 👍
@@wawayltd yeah there's two. Ahh alright. I just bought ordered mine from my local auto shop (supercheap). They should fit. But I'm trying the insert first, see if it'll fix it, if not I'll try the engine mount. If not I'll replace bushing haha.
The trick is to install both bushings at the same time through the “bottom” so you aren’t squeezing that windowed part of the bushing through last.
In that case, isn't there still a risk to damage that narrowed window bit of bottom bushing?
@@wawayltd may I please ask where I can buy or get a the manual, for vw sharan 2013 please.
@@rfayz733 VW has official website with manuals. It costs about 7 euros per hour to get access. 1 hour is more than enough to download loads. Here's the link:
erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showHome.do
It has a ridge inside the sub frame each bush can only be put in at the bottom and top !
HI bro, i am also driving sharan
do you also replace the transmission mount and engine mount in the engine bay?
does all these improve the ride quality?
my car is My2016. I found the car not so smooth when accelerating from stop or stop to 0km/h.
I haven't replaced any other mounts, my car is on 418.000 miles.. Ride quality can be affected by many other factors - driveshaft joints, ball joints, bushes...
Also wheel alignment, tyre balance, or brake discs deformed..
If I am just replacing the lower bushing, would I be able to slowly tap (with a wooden block) the new bushing in? of course that would be after I clean up/smooth the frame and lubricate everything...would the tapping method work? thanks for posting the video by the way!
Did you press out the old bushing?
And the bushing wants to distort. Freeze bushing and use hose clamp or Get a 4” pvc coupling, grind out for bushing to fit in. This will keep it from distorting.
I personally would change both bushings bc my upper was shot. But you can’t tell from looking at it. It’s has microscopic tears that we don’t see. JMO good luck
@@briansmith9258 ahh....good call, I only saw some microscopic partial tears on the lower one, so was "hoping" the upper one is still good. Alternatively, I might just try an insert to see if help and squeeze couple of years out of it. I am surprised none of my local VW specialty shop has one of those VAG subframe bush tool, that would take them less than an hour for a clean job.
@@fantiger Yeah the insert will help but if you’re getting a lot of vibration and stuff if you’re tuned.
that’s why I did it because I’m tune It was aggravating and I changed everything but those two mounts. Just made a world of difference when I did but def a PITA to change
To cange anti roll bar bushes it need to take this sub frame out or it can be canged without dismantelig it?
It can, but it needs special hydraulic tool.
Can't we use a 12ton hydraulic shop press to press both bushings out at the same time? Is there a groove stopping the bushings?
There is nothing stopping bushings, apart from that sticking out bit on the bushing when you try to push it in.
What’s that kit you used to press the mounts into the subframe?
Please check video description.
Thanks bro, may I know is there any fast method take the left control arm bolt? I know people generally lower the subframe a bit, so any faster method?
Sorry Bon, I don't quite understand why would we need to lower subframe for control arm bolt? What stops us from simply taking it out?
@@wawayltd mine is touran with7 speed dsg. If I want to take the left control arm bolt out, the transmission pan is blocking. Hence, the bolt is too long and cannot be taken out.
Wow! That is painful 🙄
@@bonlau1902 What I had to do was drop down the bolts unfortunately I had to loosen the whole sub frame up to where I could pull that control arm down enough to get that bolt out.
Is it possible to remove subframe without removing the wheels. If I just keep the car on four wheels. Is there any issues since the control arm is connected to it.
If I understood it correctly, then that is crazy! Keeping all 4 wheels on a ground and remove subrfame that actually holds control arm?? It's unsafe. Also even if it stays together, how are you going to put it back? Please jack it up safely 🙏
just a thought , has anyone tried heating a cut down oil drum , outside , up with just water in it , to simmering point , with the subframe immersed in it , suspended from the top with wire off an iron crossbar , this would make the whole subframe expand many thousandths of an inch , it should then be much easier with the same basic procedure to tap out the old bushes & reheat the subframe , then tap new ones in , leave to cool down , then refit . A further tip is to have both new bushes in the deep freeze overnight to shrink them down . I haven,t tried this , try it with a scrap one first , the idea comes from advice for getting gudgeon pins into new Same italian tractor diesel engine pistons many years ago , the current ones have Deutz engines in , don't do it to these ! Never expose alloy to a bare gas torch flame , it will melt & run like water . Be careful out there . Difficult job well handled .
Lots of physics there 👍
What torque is it for the dog bone mount? Cheers
I don't know, sorry..
Thx for the video. Can this bad mount cause jerk when doing park to reverse ?
Thanks! I have a manual gearbox. In my case, it didn't seem to cause any jerks. It just had a lot of cracks, so I decided to replace it.
@@wawayltd ok. Is this mount anyway tied to transmission? I’m trying to get an idea if that jerk is because of mounts or actual transmission
Pendulum support with this mount is connecting subframe on one end to transmission/engine coupling on the other.
Hey brother, what is the torque specs on the subframe bolts?
Sorry, I don't have that information at the moment..
@@wawayltd my man went German torque
How did you know those bushes needed replacing? What were the symptoms of the car? How did it behave? I'm asking because I have a 2017 Skoda superb and the ride was very very rough, I could and still can feel every small crack on the road. I replaced the front and rear suspension springs and shock absorbers ...that improved the ride a bit but it's nowhere close to what it should be. it feels like the whole body of the car is very unstable, unpredictable and it just moves from side to side even on the motorway. the quality of the ride is absolutely terrible still...any advice? thanks.
I replaced those bushes because they had cracks. Not sure if it affected ride quality.
Your car needs to be seen and checked.
@@wawayltd it's due for an oil change soon so I'll ask them to check.
The thing is I have taken it to several places and they couldn't find anything wrong with it, but something surely IS wrong. None of the cars I had before behaved this way. anyway, thanks for your reply
You're welcome, sorry I couldn't help. Hope you'll find what's wrong.
@@wawayltd no worries,.thanks anyway.
I've already looked prices for sub frame front and rear bushes, and it's only about £80 , so it's pretty cheap , I'll definitively give it a try in a few weeks.
Have a nice one
Just seeing this video now, not sure if this matters, but another indicator that the subframe bushing is shot is if you remove the transmission mount that goes into the bushing the bill that goes through the bushing won’t unthread. It will just spin in place
Can you leave the stabilizer bar too?? I mean take iff all those bolts??
Probably it is possible, but then I think it can be struggle to align these bolts when putting back on. So much easier to disconnect ball joints.
I did, just unbolted it. Left in the car.
Hello, I have a 2011 Sharan with a warm start problem. It cannot start up as the video shown below when I turn off the car for 2 or 3 minutes and start up again. No error code shows. I have cleaned the throttle valve, the injection nozzles, the intake pipe and changed the spark plugs and the motor of the electronic throttle at the shop and yet the problem still exist. Do you have any ideas for the problem? Can i send you an video of the problem? Thank you.
Hi Kenneth, I saw your video in our Sharan Facebook group. I don't know how to help you with this unfortunately. Probably try scan it with VCDS, it should have some sort of record of what's going on.
WheelsAndMotors Thanks you for the advice!🙏🏻
How did you know that bushing was bad?
Might it been a clunking noise from the left wheel house a bit more to the middle when driving over an obstacle with the left wheel?
It had big cracks. I'm not sure if it was making any noise.
This is my issue right now replaced control arm bushings and Stabilizer links. The noise is driving me crazy now I'm fed up
Where do you get the subframe bushing from
Internet. Try Autodoc? Or eBay?
Hi mate, did u replace the subframe bolts? Looking to replace my subframe and reading everywhere that u need new bolts as they’re stretch bolts…
I didn't. On my own risk. Sometimes, I don't replace stretch bolts (like engine mount for cambelt job), and just go by feel with torques.
Don't take my word for it, I'm not professional. In fact, I'm not even a mechanic 😉.
Do some research. See what people say. If you buy a bunch of bolts from dealership, they can be pricey for what they are.
Will be doing this on the weekend mate, just one more question… did u have to support the steering rack at all? I’ve got an Audi tts but it looks the same
@dzgorzelski It should be ok without support.
@@wawayltd nice one mate! Thanks for your help
@@dzgorzelski You can do it 👍
Wht size bolt gos true mount plese as mine is missing
I remember there was 2x16mm and 1x21mm for pendulum support. 21mm goes through the bushing. I don't know the length and thread size, sorry. I don't have that car anymore.
Use Meyle brand next time ,very good quality !
I hope next time doesn't come too soon, it's a pain in the bottom to replace thoce 😁
Hi this is a very good video can you confirm if your car made a clunking sound over bumps because of these bushes being bad cheers👍
Hi. I had a clunking sound over bumps because of bad steering rod, inner ball joint.
I replaced this bush mainly because visually it looked destroyed.
Also bad anti-roll bar links can make clunking sound.
@@wawayltd cheers I have checked everything & replaced bushes, cv joints, lower ball joints the anti roll bar bushes are solid no play I'm going to replace these to see if it cures the clunk, thanks for replying il reply ltr when their replaced hopefully no clunk🤞🤞
I don't want you to throw money at it just to find out what's clunking. Friend of mine had clunking with bad steering rack..
Maybe ask some mechanic to have a good look at it? Shouldn't take long or cost much, but once you know - at least you're not playing lottery with your time and money.
@@wawayltd true perhaps that's a better idea cheers
@@sendheron1 did u figure it out? Some bushing are hard as rock causing noise.
Jesus. Nightmare. Well done 👍
Yeah, it is a bit challenging 😉👍
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hi Guy`s, i replace too this subframe bush, wasnt so easy.... but my problem is still on there...
i have a passat b7 cffa 100KW 2.0 tdi manual gearbox... when i give full gas to accelerate on 4-5-6.th gear aroud 1800 rmp i feel that is shake the car... first impression was that flywheel, (replace to OEM) same problem, 2nd, impression was subframe bushing,,,,, replaced a same problem...
then my friend told me to replace the complet shaft axle .... still the same shakeing.... any idea? (winter rims, summer rims the same issue)
sorry for my english
Hi Szilárd, I had similar symptoms with my previous car (Audi). It appeared to be clogged up fuel filter. But if you look after your car, then I don't know what can it be. I think I get something similar when I accelerate in my Sharan, I need to find out why.. Sorry I couldn't help.
Could be dual mass flywheel going out.
if it's just at specific rpm range and at WOT (wide open throttle) this is probably carbon build up.
I had the same problem. It was the upper engine and gearbox mounts that were completely worn out.
@@ingeborgsjon I’m thinking of trying that now, I have re-new nearly everything, full Front and rear suspension….. upper and lower arms, anti roll, bar bushes etc etc etc, just got wheel alignment done and it’s still all over the rd especially after bumps. Think 🤔 I’ll need to renew engine mounts next. Am not letting it beat me now after the money I’ve spent on it Octavia mk2 A5 arghhhhhh
What’s the symptoms off these needing replacing
Cracks
On my 2010 VW Sharan Mk2 2.0 CR TDI broke the flexible joint on the exhaust pipe above the subframe, the part that is integral with the DPF/catalisator unit. The bushing for transmission pendulum is broken all the way. I think that the excessive engine/transmission movement caused the flexible joint to fail. Now I am taking out the DPF and the EGR cooler for cleaning and repairing the flexible joint, and that I have watched this video, I will take out the subframe too. Hard job, because I have no car lift, the car is raised about 35 cm from the ground, working underneath and in the engine compartment. the car has 404 000 km, I have already cleaned the intake manifold, intake valves and throttle valve from carbon deposits..
can you just file all over around to make it smaller?
How?
No, there is a need for a tightly pressed fit, otherwise would come out from engine/transmission vibration. Only friction keeps the bushing in the place.
I seen a few weeks ago to freeze the bushes they didn’t explain why could this be because stop it breaking
Yeah, it can be tricky one, not all garages want to do it. Apparently there's a special hydraulic tool specifically for that job. Dealers have it.
WheelsAndMotors Just been quoted VW specialist £160 just for labour!.. probably do the job myself with DIY kit
Freezing metal (objects) will shrink, in just a fraction mm, but it help.
In our case we want it to expand...
How many hours to do the job?
It depends on experience
A week
I have three bushes in my yard and three in my Jetta. I was changing my bushes like this video shows me and my neighbor told me I’m supposed to use a hedge trimmer. I stopped what I was doing, and tried the trimmer. I could never be happier, the hedge trimmer worked on my bushes and my bushings.
🤔
Hedge trimmer seriously ?
Just put jubilee clip on it and press straight in no fading around with bits of wood
Great idea 💡 I didn't think of that.
Guys what's the part number for this subframe bush/mount please?
I bought them from parts shop (Euro Car Parts) just explained what car and where they going to... Don't know number, sorry.
@@wawayltd ok thanks. I asked you because in your previous videos your replacement parts were usually from TPS. Anyway thanks mate :)
@@omerafzalmalik I probably should buy them from TPS, because even though they are just bushings, you need to be careful what brand you're buying. Like Vtech from GSF don't last at all..
@@wawayltd I agree you're right, original replacement parts last for a very long time.
Good video terrible vw design. Dropping the whole subframe just to replace the transmission torque mount yikes turns a 30 min or so job into hours
It took me longer in real time 😏
These are a real pain in the arse to fit and align. I use a piece of plastic drain pipe and a large piston ring compressor...and swear lots !!!
I've used all my swearword vocabulary behind the scenes of this video 😁
@@wawayltd
If you buy the special tool for £300 and do a few every day.. You won't have a problem.
Doing one every now and then even with the tool can be a pain!!! 😩
I've seen some hydraulic thing on TH-cam. Looks effortless. Can be useful for VW garage, not for just DIY enthusiasts that do it once in a lifetime..
@@wawayltd
I wonder why the bushes had to have soft plastic rather than alloy on the outer casing. Can only assume its cost.
The old "dog bone" style as used on previous models was a 10min change over job... The part was cheap too. These new bushes (upper and lower) have to be purchased separately (?) and are over twice the cost of the old part. How is that a cost saving I wonder?
I think metal would be even more difficult to remove, and couldn't lead into more trouble if it goes bendy while inserting...
But in general - yes it's a "pain in a bum" design. Also I had no clue that they come separately, therefore they are different design in the video.
With Original Tool you would be faster cleaner 👍
Less fun 😁
Next time put ur bush in the freezer the day before
I never thought of that 🤔
How doe's putting a thick peace of plastic in the freezer help...
Plastic doesn't shrink when frozen in the way that metal does?
I was just gonna say the same thing thanks anyway
@@casanovaevren Great Minds Think Alike.☮
@@okcyurwin I watched that on my phone didn't saw he had a plastics one on my 2011 jetta it was steel, It was just an advice for his future endeavors, people like you need to calm down............
I hope there's another way of removing bushing with out removing subframe, because I hope you find out that after removing subframe it messes up your alignment and only place to fix it is a stealership.
Any tyre shop will check alignment...
There is another way without removing subframe, but it requires special tool.
@@wawayltd Nah bro there is a cheat am gonna try. It does require a 2-column lifts or jacks stands.
1. First your remove the bushing(There are many ways to cutting to burning, just use your imagination)
2. Press it in from underneath the car using a lifting jack that goes straight up.
Or when you have a 2 colums lifts you could place the bushing under the car on a flat brick or wooden beam and just lower the car but sadly this is more risky because you cant really go really slow.
Mine advice use a lifting jack, Heat subframe a little, let the bearing be really cold.
Heating up subframe makes it a tiny bit bigger, cooling the bearing will make it a tiny bit smaller so pressing it in will be easier
Ok. Would love to know how it went 👍
@@wawayltd Well am gonna film and upload it to yt. Just waiting on parts now, Will let you iknow!!!
Imagine you get it in there and it’s the wrong way 💀
😁👍
Work, don’t play, you can change it without stripping the car.
How?
@@wawayltd with a special tool
Stahlmaxx Abziehwerkzeug für Motorstützlager / Aggregateträger, für VAG, XXL-103336
Thanks 👍
The two new ones are not a pair....they are of different models.
They are pair, just different brands.
@@wawayltd
No....
The upper one is the correct model, lower one is of a different model.
@@omercoolbuddy No.. How can it be different model, if this subframe is fits almost every VAG of that generation - VW, Seat, Skoda - so does the bush. Both bushes were bought from different car parts shops and they are different brands. But they both fit! Considering they are different makes (brands), they don't have to look exactly the same, as long as they do the job.
When you'll have more experience with car parts - you'll understand...
You're welcome 😉
@@wawayltd
Im sorry, its not about having "more experience" or "less experience"...pls dont get offend, my friend.
There are 2 models for the same Subframe.
Model-A PFF85-504 pair set.
Model-B PFF85-704 pair set.
...you can browse for details.
@@omercoolbuddy Sorry my friend, I didn't mean to offend you. I can see that you are much more into details about these bushes than me.
When I search for numbers you provided - it offers inserts instead of actual bushes.
I agree that if you are looking for inserts, it's very important to get correct shape, so it fits into the bush.
I was looking into getting insert myself, but after some reviews I decided that it won't be good for my car, especially for diesel. So I decided to get new bushes instead.
For some reason my parts suppliers don't sell them in pairs. I got bottom one first (they didn't have top in stock), then went to different shop and got top one.
Accordingly to their data - it all fits my vehicle. I got what I wanted - fresh bushes that do the job.
Now I have account with TPS, original part suppliers, and next time when I'll have to change subframe bushes, maybe they will supply actual pair.
But in all fairness, I don't see much importance as long as it fits the subframe and does the job.
Thanks for pointing that out!
There is a specific tool for this, and it pays to own it so you don't have to deal with unnecessary headaches.
The other alternative is to use a C-clamp with a metal plate on the empty side. Pops it in, in seconds. No need to grind and butcher the part or subframe.
Thanks, I should see this comment before my adventures with it 😉