I discovered decades ago that high quality speaker cables dramatically improved the KEF speakers I had at that time: more spacious etc. As an engineer, this seemed likely because of the relatively high current involved after the power amplifier but I remained a sceptic about interconnects at signal level, ie from CD player or network player to the amp. No longer! I became convinced to lash out £50 on an RCA interconnect by PS Audio and boy, did it make a difference. I was completely gobsmacked that changing the cable carrying such a tiny current could make a difference but it did! Now you’ve convinced me to at least try bi-wiring which I’ve also been sceptical of. I love experimenting.
I've been watching your videos for about a week now. You're my primary source of info, more experience than most. I like that you don't insult other people for their opinions.
Absolutely way way better than single wire, im not really good in hooking up wiring, just relying on youtube, but when i try it my self the right way of Bi wiring , its just phenomenal you can easily say everything has change from good to excellent.
Hi Kelvin, nice video and I've just subscribed to your channel too, so thanks. I agree, I bi-wire my main system using Mogami W3104 quad cable, which is fantastic stuff. It doesn't take any components out of the circuit, but it does separate the signals in the wires, reducing crosstalk between high and low frequencies. This is the part that some people don't actually believe, of course, because they think that it's all the same at the amp end. I agree with you on interconnects too. I thought I'd have a go at making my own and I love them so much I sold all my Chord Company cables, even though I'd been using them for years.
As an electronics engineer by trade and as a guitarist by hobby I will say this. A speaker / audio transducer is an electric motor. It converts electrical energy into mechanical energy. As long as the cables can carry the voltage and current then it doesn't matter if there is one or two cables.
I've tried biwiring my Mission 760iSE and I honestly can't tell any difference. It only really works in systems which use active crossovers and bi-amping; one amp each for HF and LF. I'm not convinced by cables either. They are basically just copper conductors carrying a small voltage. The only things that really matter are; 1. Never use that thin crappy "bell wire" stuff, 2. Keep your cable runs as short as possible without over tensioning them. 3. Make sure your banana plugs (or whatever) are properly connected to the cable ends; preferably soldered.
Hello Kelvin. We've all heard a lot of the arguments around the effectiveness of cables. Like you, I enjoy swapping gear out to listen to the same track of music to see what the differences may be. I hadn't put a lot of belief in cables making a noticeable difference... after this episode I'll be checking it out. Also.... thanks for explaining about bi-wiring... I'll be giving that a go as well. Cheers from Canada!
if you really want to hear a difference with cables, use some thin crappy wire on one speaker and some nicer 12 gauge on the other. you'll notice right away the issue. whether this is just a loss in "a few db" as a recording engineer might say, or something deeper in the sound, I haven't investigated enough to know, but you know what people who care will say.
As I understand it, bi-wiring is simply a case of supplying power to a speaker via 2 positive and 2 negative connections, with the bridging plate removed, of course, but from one amp output only whereby the 2 positive connections are joined together to make 1 connection, and the same goes for the 2 negative connections; you actually described this process at one point during the video. What you're doing is bi-amping: you're effectively supplying power to the speaker from 2 amps, using 2 positive connections and 2 negative connections at both ends, again, with the bridging plate removed. In a way, bi-wiring simply moves the bridging connection from the back of the speaker to the terminals on the back of the amp. The main change is due to the extra 'cable thickness' by using two runs of cable.
My expirence with BiWire has always been creating clearer mid range , less congested sound , better clarity , slighlty cleaner space and spatial resolution.
Once again, I have to agree with you. Sensible choice of cables when bi-wiring is usually a worthwhile improvement. The next step, bi-amping, I have found makes an even better improvement. The ulimate, going 'active' using active crossovers instead of the passive ones inside the speaker cabinet, can make a massive difference.
Hi Kelvin. Just bi-wired my Arcam 6, DenonDCD 1290, JBL prototype studio monitors (I worked for several speaker makers in another life), and listen to cd's and stream Spotify and Deezer through my smart Samsung tv via Chromecast. Not 4% but at least 10% for me. Thanks so much for your knowledge and experience. Bless you and yours bro.
LONDON STEREO REVIEW X … and I am absorbing my daily dose of this channel and of course it’s Host the most helping and knowledgeable Mr Kelvin …. I have gone riight back x2 years and will watch a new / old upload as this sought after HIFI experience is invaluable… my late father who passed x2 years ago this August would have been absolutely HOOKED just like I am .. so glad we have the power of the internet to TOTALLY ENJOY THIS … Kelvin your internet Soldiers are out here … I been spreading the word to my work mates and there are all involved as well .. GOOD LUCK MATE AND WELL ON YAH .. a MASSIVE THANK YOU FOR SUCH VALUABLE INSIGHT … PERFECT 👍
I'm running Fyne Audio F502 from a Yamaha A-S1200 amp. I'm using a double run of Kimber 4VS to bi-wire. The bi-wiring makes a good improvement over the single cable run.
Tried bi-wiring/bi-amping with my Arcam AVR20 (you can enable bi-amp feature for fronts) and it did open the soundstage more and matched sound of Lyngdorf Amp which I think is impressive. I used relatively cheap QED cables £200 for a pair.
I am yet to do my Dedicated study upon the difference. I confess to having a part of me skeptical to the significant difference. I know i have heard speakers sound great - on just 'doorbell' wires - yes shock horror to the audiophile world! But to hear the difference i feel you have to give it your 110% to really notice. I have Quad 12l's bi-wired but i need to swap the large and slim cables across to really know - good test from you there Kelvin, and thanks again
I like the way you explain things. There are doubters on this bi-wire method & variables involved. Theoretically, one might be able to explain that each section (tweeter, woofer) when by-wired should be able to move independently to more closely follow the electrical impulses, but seeing the difference on an oscilloscope might yield some results or proof, thank you, subscribed
If you bi-wire to separate channels on your amp and if your amp has gain controls you can tweak your high and low outputs and change the sound. Throw that in with an EQ and you can use lamp cord (which back in the day was 12ga solid copper) and it won't matter.
If you like the tweaking you can do with cables, you can use for example Belden cable. High capacitance leads to the suppression of the higher frequencies somewhat. I use 1800B, probably this is also great for bi-wiring.Try it for your tweeters, as it’s highly revealing. I like 1313a as well, this is thicker and quite high in capacitance.
One of the last bi-njiring speakers and HiFi systems are made by Panasonic and the sound is specific... I like your reviews, you are son natural and simlpy you, regards.
depends on the interconnect resistance you need to go for coaxial cable 75 ohms for interconnect if it's digital source, analogue source go for 50 Ohm's into a preamp or Poweramp 50 ohms give you about 2 of 3 DB drop in output what is preferred for solid-state don't do this from valve stick with 75 ohms. Belden cable is probably the best cheapest. Always use 60 50 or 30 ohms possibly from turntable to preamp don't go with 75 ohms this will give you less output as I said but makes a cartridge more sensitive
Great review as always..I’ve used all types of cable, I’ve used Belden in the past and its really good. But now I look on the auction site and I’ve always come up with some bargains for really decent cable,although it all seems a bit of a lottery as to what improvement in sound you will achieve. I’ve used that Van Damme speaker cable and it comes in different thicknesses, it’s pretty good for the price too ..
Van Damme is a "pro" cable, and probably looked down on by audiophiles. But it's affordable and rugged! If it's good enough for Pink Floyd, it ok by me.
Head to the shed and nick the cables from your old Arc Welder, and hook them up to your system. It worked very well for me for 25 years, until I invested in some quality Japaneses Speaker Cables of a similar gauge (thickness), 15 years ago. Thicker Cables do take wrestling to get them were you want. Also depending on the Banana Sockets Mounts, you may need to suspend very heavy Cables to remove pressure of the Banana Sockets. SCIENCE: Signals move along the skin of a wire, so the more wires, the greater the surface area the signal can use. Also the lower the Resistance, less energy is lost (heat). The more pure the copper used the easier for the electrons to travel, the more efficient the cable, and lower resistance.
In my experience it does improve sound quality and the noise floor lowers but ONLY when bi wiring is done and healing crystals are placed in a deltoid pattern at the base of the speakers and amplifiers. Works even better with crystals placed around the source aswell as on the listeners pants pockets.
Bi-Wiring is just OK, you should consider Bi-Amping, a whole different level in sound! Just make sure you remove the metal bridges(Jumpers) between the 2 speaker terminals or you will fry your amps!
bi amping can actually sound worse due to phasing issues, im a musician and can vouch for this. there is always a delay of sound between amps unless they are identical and serviced.
@@Synthematix I use an active crossover, it eliminates that issue and I can equalize my speakers to my liking. I use a tube power amp for the midrange and high frequencies and a solid state power amp for my low frequencies with great results!
Hey there, new to your channel and really like the advice. Got a question, I have a Yamaha RXA3080 and wanted to know if it makes sense to run a Pioneer M-72 4x100 watt amp through the Yamaha pre-outs to i-amp front LSI-9 Polk speakers or just use one of the Yamaha's channels not being used on my 5.1.2 set up? Thanks Ron
Van Damme make various cables etc mainly for muscians playing live or when recording... guitar/bass etc & microphones, all types of studio & live playing cables..they have a Road Series & Studio Series & do quad balanced cables for mic's & active monitors.... they use good quality OFC copper, are very flexable, come in a variety of types... mono, stereo, balanced, quad balanced....i use Van Damme Road & Studio Series cables when playing bass live or when recording...my bass guitar cable, pedal cables ,mic cable & speaker cabinet/s cables (2 x 2.5mm diameter cable, non sheilded) are all Van Damme....their very good value & quality for the price.....
Very nice! My question is: if you combine the two reds and two blues into one banana plug each going into one post in the amp, do you still get the tweeter and woofer separated in different speakers (if you switch off A or B)? See 3:27. And where do you connect on the amp using four banana plugs? All A or a B posts or a mixture of A and B posts?
Could you sometime show the inside of a speaker that has two sets of speaker connections. Im still not clear on why biwiring helps. Id be curious to see the signal path. Thanks!
Greetings from Scotland. ..dnm reson solid core...great stuff .....better than naim nac5. ....I used a 3 gang ex BT mains conditioner. ..my god the difference in sound and vision was incredible a good 10% I'd say...
i had a Sugden A48 it was a great amp paired with Tannoy Cheviot Speakers and a Rega 3 Turntable they sounded Fantastic together but sadly the Sugden died i wish i still had it
Try equal length 14awg wires on tweeters and 16awg wires on woofers. then swap them around the other way and compare. Or with different gauge (14awg + 11awg...) but you get the gist. Also, I like to use 14/4 wire (14awg, 4 conductor) since I can use it for 14awg/4c Bi-Wire, 14awg/4c Bi-amp or twist 2 conductors together to make a 11awg/2c wire.
Hi there I liked your video. I'm I the process of making a little stupid for my garage. I have an arcam xeta one a/v amplifier. Is it possible to get some sound from it? With two celestial k12t-100 with tweeters all running off of one cable it seams. I can't see in the housing to see what the tweeters are. And input is large jack. Any help would be appreciated. Also there are many ports on the back of the amp do I just head for the loudspeaker outputs. Although there is front, surround and centre.
Hi you can see the Arkham CD player in my new video quadand naim Power amps I’m afraid I don’t have any up to the moment CD players I just test everything I can get my hands on Cheers K
This is great & good advice. However only modern speakers have the necessary connections for bi-wiring. Vintage speakers on the whole do not. You can of course convert them if you know what you’re doing.
Greetings from Scotland. ..yep I'm in agreement with you...I used an ex BT 3 gang mains conditioner from eBay very heavy....wow my screen improved and my sound, best upgrade on the cheap ever
My aged friend is an audiophile with huge knowledge and professional experience. He reckons household mains wiring is the best. Spending any more is a waste. My speakers have been bi wired for decades. They sound great. I did it because it was the fashion in the 1980s
Yes I’ve used mains wire in the past it’s just fine I mean there are small differences in cables truly You have to be pretty rich to justify the small advantages of expensive cables. K
Mains cable for the woofer, silver for the tweeter is the best option, model railway silver large track bus wire is the ultimate speaker cable: High frequencies travel much better with silver wire, thats why we use it in digital model railways: search ebay for "Large track bus wire" then with your drill make it into a twisted pair.
direct to the tweeter? hope not, there will be a resistor and/or condensator. A cable lights or lower energy slightly, enhancing or lowering the frequency range. Tweaking money should go to a better source.
Can you do a bi-amping video, I started bi-wiring a few years ago, but I now do bi-amping and wow what a difference, I would love to know what you think .. great video as usual 10/10
His speaker was ‘bi-amp’ at the start of this clip. Using speaker A and speaker B for tweeter and woofer separately is bi-amp, using only speaker A and connecting 2 wires to tweeter and woofer without the bridge is bi-wiring, otherwise known as ‘I don’t have 1 thick cable so I will use 2 lengths of thin cable’. It is the same as using 1 cable and leaving the bridge plate in. There is only 1 source at the amp (speaker A), so all frequencies must go to the tweeter and the woofer.
You are turly a legend! I live in Surrey and would like to invite you over to have a look at my setup and maybe you can review it all at the same time.....? Denon Amp 3801 - 7 301 Bose / Mission speaker floor standing - other side of room is a Sony amp with SSb4ed speaker floor standing and book shellf. strange set up that I need help with.
Well I can’t say I’m a big fan of subwoofers some of them the base is very soft Also I know bass is not very directional but it is a little bit I prefer it coming out of my two speakers . If possible. Truly it’s not something I’ve messed around with much mostly heard in other peoples places was never that impressed doesn’t mean it can’t be good Cheers K
Coupla things. BW is all about commning the input to the speakers back at the amp terminals, not so much that one of the input wires runs direct to the terminal of the tweeter. Using AB switching outputs on an amp is sort of a no no for a variety of reasons but mainly because some amps (pretty ordinary ones) have the AB speaker switching wiring both pairs in series. This will create very odd results if you are biwiring.
Amps drive speakers, the load, or impedance the speakers present is expressed in ohms, speakers with lower impedance require more current from the amplifier, 4ohm speakers will draw twice the current compared to 8ohm speakers.
Thanks a lot for the video. Question: If I did example b (bi wiring out of one set of terminals in the amp), and wanted to hear my tweeters alone -by some strange reason- by unplugging the woofer...would that fry my tweeters?
Cables, they certainly contribute to the sound but it is nothing significant. But Bi-Wiring certainly do contribute quite significantly to the overall sound quality. I would say even more than 4%. In my case I would say that the sound betterred by even 10%. It was audible at first listen immediately.
Do you have a cross over in your amp before the output terminals? Otherwise the signal is the same in the two wires to the speaker but then filtered after the speaker crossover. Hearing bi wiring differences is the perfect example of placebo effect.
What do I need to do to make a center speaker that has 2 binding posts to make it with 4 so I can bi amp it except changing the speaker,the centre has 4 5.2 inch woffers and the tweeter is the klipsh RP 504c,I'm bi amping the front l and r so I need to do the same thing to center , have 2 extra basx A2 is a waist not to use them,but I can't change the centre I just bought it along with l and r main speakers,is bad enough finding out that the new RP line got out a month after I got the my RP 8000f and the RP 504c,so can I do something to the centre so I can bi amp it?
Next week passive bi-amping:) I have an Arcam A80 and a P80, but it is a very very little difference, not worth it, better buy one good amp the price of the two amps together:)
2:15 The second benefit is "This wiring will go direct to the tweeter without going through the crossover". I am surprised by such a lack of understanding. I've been designing high performance speakers for over 30 years and have never provided a bi-wire option. If anything, having the option to bi-wire on a loudspeaker can often mean the crossover is less optimally designed than it could be. Manufacturers don't believe it makes a difference, but are compelled to include them for fear of losing a sale to a competitor. I guess one cannot argue with the claim, "but I can hear a difference" because those making the claim refuse to be subject to any form of controlled test, but at least it allows the rest of us to judge the credibility of their opinions about other aspects of audio. Sorry Kelvin, I have the greatest respect for you and I always enjoy your videos, but was disappointed by this one. I would have thought someone like you would be dispelling these myths not reinforcing them.
Some people seem to think the lows keep obediently to one cable and the highs to another. It's the same signal in both wires arriving at the speaker terminals. Bi wiring is an example of the placebo effect.
I just fulfilled a long--time, childish fetish dream and upgraded from two mono amps to four... the unused spare connections on the speakers and the pre.amp always gave me autism :D With great power comes great responsibility at the power knob, as the adage goes...
Bi-wiring doen't "remove" any crossover parts: the crossover is (say) a high pass section and a low pass section. As you say, you are using a "fatter" cable, but you may get the same results with two (different) cables and the shunts still on the speaker.
I notice with respect your honoust observations....but i was also impressed by a blind listening test one can see on utube between a highend expensif sysyem and wires and a very cheap , with cheap wires ,both with the same small ATC 2way speakers....the cheap used behringer poweramp with sony cheap player...the other used YBA pre and poweramp ,top expensif cables , yop teac vrds cd etc....most coulnd't tell difference and about the same amount of listeners prefered the cheap or the expensif system...all trained hifi enthusiasts and equipment hidden , only speakers apparent....notice the amps are both 2x100 watts with generous trafo....because clipping from underpowering is easily exposed
I like to listen to Jazz so the only thing that i was contemplating with biwiring is higher treble on the high hats or trumpet/sax solos. I own a pair of $3500 speakers running from a 130wpc Sansui amp and a dac, and biwiring was noticeable at first, how can i describe, the instruments became minutely cleaner, tighter. Personally I found highs to be too shiny to the point that it was noticeable and after a few hours, fatiguing and annoying. I've gone back to wire jumpers and single cable. Much better. I probably tend to like a more warm, mellowed, chilled tone, like that of a double bass or a jazzbox guitar. Maybe i need to buy myself a tube preamp... yes lets talk about tubes! I only trust my ears. Its like drinking wine or scotch - a very subjective experience at the end of the day.
'Too High' - yes and no. There are loads of things that are worth checking out in the song. High hats, ride cymbals, electronic bass, chromatic harmonica, female backing vocals. Just what you'd expect from Stevie, he's a genius. Some of vocals however are given a peculiar phase effect which I find a bit off putting.
As long as you do not exceed the thermal capacity of the voice coil, 5 -10W usually, and do not exceed peak excursion travel limit, under a single mm in many cases, it would not. Not very practical, but theoretically quite fessible.
If your tweeter is a piezo transducer then virtually NO current will be flowing through the cable feeding it because they are voltage controlled devices NOT current controlled devices like a moving coil speaker. I suggest that people who are into HiFi, educate themselves in electronics. It will save you a lot of money. Or just ask a qualified electronics engineer on the Interwebs.
One thing I am confused about it is when I buy let's say AQ bi-wire set one end has 4 terminations, the amp end has 2 how does one know which is high or low? doesn't it come from the same wire at the end of the day?
Yes my friend it doesn’t matter which one is high or low and you’re right it does come from the same wire ultimately you’re doubling your cables which is good And when it arrives at the speaker One wire will go straight to the tweeter Awelfa which means it is cutting out circuitry which is always good by wiring makes a small difference I would say But it is a win-win just plain better all round K
You are most definitely not doubling the csa of the cable and certainly not by-passing any circuitry, unless jumper qualifies as such. In bi-wiring, you are simply terminating two pairs of wires with the impedance that of the tweeter and that of the woofer only correspondingly, hence separating the current flowing into two branches based on frequency. You would be doubling csa, only if you left the jumpers in, which defeats the whole objective.
The plates just connect one positive to the other positive or negative to the other negative so you then just connect one positive one negative as normal with one lead if you were to take the plates out you would connected to the woofer or the tweeter
@@stereoreviewx I know that. But recently I hooked up some new speakers with my biwire kimbers and forgot to take off the plates. I don't think it caused any damage. Currently using a class D
Long winded and miss leading, Bi wire = both red cables at the amp end into red socket and at the speaker end the 2 red wires connect to the red sockets, same idea with the black cables. Bi amp which is what your showing, requires 2 red and 2 black at both ends connect as you would for left channel and then connect the other speaker the same using the right channel outputs.
Because if you don't, current corresponding to the frequency dependent load presented by the tweeter for the HF branch and Low midrange driver for the LMF branch will flow in both conductors defeating the whole objective of separating them.
You only need to remove the bridge when you bi-amp, as you are using 2 seperate amplifiers (speaker A and speaker B). Just like at the start of this clip. If you are only using speaker A, you can use as many pairs of cable that you can physically fit, or just use 1 thick cable and leave bridge plate in. there is only one source from the amp, so all frequencies go to both tweeter and woofer.
@@brucebruce3841 Nothing to do with having one source, AC current can flow in many different ways at the same time, only DC wouldnt see any benefit from biwiring, but as audio is AC you are wrong. twin wiring 1. allows twice the current equalling in less stress and resistance is halved, 2, allows your tweets to be fed with proper silver cable not copper, 3, the bridge plate does more harm than good.
@@Synthematix ok, I’m not an electrical engineer, just someone who thought they knew a little bit about home audio. so I quickly looked up how electricity flows through copper in AC. It talked about skin effect and higher frequencies travelling on the outside of the copper. Does that also mean for bi-wiring to have better benefits, the second wire should have thicker strands of copper? and would more seperate strands - say using 10 cables not 2 give different results as well?
Twisted pure silver or silver plated in cotton or PTFE insulation sounds a liitle better, but I agree, the expense is injustified, if the system is not up to scratch.
@@paulb4661 hi I had a friend with thousands and thousands of pounds worth of Linn equipment, he swore by using solid core copper wiring the sort that electrician's use for your plug sockets. He sold me his old Linn Nexus speakers and wired them up using this this ring main wiring cable into my system and it did sound good.
Absolutely measurable. Count the money in your wallet, now go and buy another set of cables and count the money in your wallet again. See the difference?
I do believe in cables. They really do make a difference.
I've tried my system a number of times without cables and nothing, zip, nada , zilch.
The best cables are 100% gold platted between the thighs of a virgin .
K
@@stereoreviewx Ahh, like a good cigar right?
I agree 100% but you need good ears, and trained ears, thats why so many post false claims in saying it makes no difference.
Instablaster.
I discovered decades ago that high quality speaker cables dramatically improved the KEF speakers I had at that time: more spacious etc. As an engineer, this seemed likely because of the relatively high current involved after the power amplifier but I remained a sceptic about interconnects at signal level, ie from CD player or network player to the amp. No longer! I became convinced to lash out £50 on an RCA interconnect by PS Audio and boy, did it make a difference. I was completely gobsmacked that changing the cable carrying such a tiny current could make a difference but it did! Now you’ve convinced me to at least try bi-wiring which I’ve also been sceptical of. I love experimenting.
I've been watching your videos for about a week now. You're my primary source of info, more experience than most. I like that you don't insult other people for their opinions.
Utter nonsense 😀
Absolutely way way better than single wire, im not really good in hooking up wiring, just relying on youtube, but when i try it my self the right way of Bi wiring , its just phenomenal you can easily say everything has change from good to excellent.
Hi Kelvin, nice video and I've just subscribed to your channel too, so thanks.
I agree, I bi-wire my main system using Mogami W3104 quad cable, which is fantastic stuff. It doesn't take any components out of the circuit, but it does separate the signals in the wires, reducing crosstalk between high and low frequencies. This is the part that some people don't actually believe, of course, because they think that it's all the same at the amp end.
I agree with you on interconnects too. I thought I'd have a go at making my own and I love them so much I sold all my Chord Company cables, even though I'd been using them for years.
As an electronics engineer by trade and as a guitarist by hobby I will say this.
A speaker / audio transducer is an electric motor. It converts electrical energy into mechanical energy. As long as the cables can carry the voltage and current then it doesn't matter if there is one or two cables.
Lol 😊
I've tried biwiring my Mission 760iSE and I honestly can't tell any difference. It only really works in systems which use active crossovers and bi-amping; one amp each for HF and LF. I'm not convinced by cables either. They are basically just copper conductors carrying a small voltage. The only things that really matter are; 1. Never use that thin crappy "bell wire" stuff, 2. Keep your cable runs as short as possible without over tensioning them. 3. Make sure your banana plugs (or whatever) are properly connected to the cable ends; preferably soldered.
I like your Idea about it playing out over time. I have bought a few nice cables like Kimber & Straight wire they have served me for my whole life!
Allways happy to listen to these experiences....some blind listening tests brought surprises about cables...
Hello Kelvin. We've all heard a lot of the arguments around the effectiveness of cables. Like you, I enjoy swapping gear out to listen to the same track of music to see what the differences may be. I hadn't put a lot of belief in cables making a noticeable difference... after this episode I'll be checking it out. Also.... thanks for explaining about bi-wiring... I'll be giving that a go as well. Cheers from Canada!
if you really want to hear a difference with cables, use some thin crappy wire on one speaker and some nicer 12 gauge on the other. you'll notice right away the issue. whether this is just a loss in "a few db" as a recording engineer might say, or something deeper in the sound, I haven't investigated enough to know, but you know what people who care will say.
As I understand it, bi-wiring is simply a case of supplying power to a speaker via 2 positive and 2 negative connections, with the bridging plate removed, of course, but from one amp output only whereby the 2 positive connections are joined together to make 1 connection, and the same goes for the 2 negative connections; you actually described this process at one point during the video. What you're doing is bi-amping: you're effectively supplying power to the speaker from 2 amps, using 2 positive connections and 2 negative connections at both ends, again, with the bridging plate removed. In a way, bi-wiring simply moves the bridging connection from the back of the speaker to the terminals on the back of the amp. The main change is due to the extra 'cable thickness' by using two runs of cable.
Wrong. www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/
My expirence with BiWire has always been creating clearer mid range , less congested sound , better clarity , slighlty cleaner space and spatial resolution.
you gullible goose
Once again, I have to agree with you. Sensible choice of cables when bi-wiring is usually a worthwhile improvement. The next step, bi-amping, I have found makes an even better improvement. The ulimate, going 'active' using active crossovers instead of the passive ones inside the speaker cabinet, can make a massive difference.
👏GOOD ADVICE…had this “FUN “ years ago 🤗 now I have settled in bi-wiring with Tara Lab cables and👍 🤗😍😍😍
Great idea! Diff cables for each driver.
Hi Kelvin. Just bi-wired my Arcam 6, DenonDCD 1290, JBL prototype studio monitors (I worked for several speaker makers in another life), and listen to cd's and stream Spotify and Deezer through my smart Samsung tv via Chromecast. Not 4% but at least 10% for me. Thanks so much for your knowledge and experience. Bless you and yours bro.
LONDON STEREO REVIEW X … and I am absorbing my daily dose of this channel and of course it’s Host the most helping and knowledgeable Mr Kelvin …. I have gone riight back x2 years and will watch a new / old upload as this sought after HIFI experience is invaluable… my late father who passed x2 years ago this August would have been absolutely HOOKED just like I am .. so glad we have the power of the internet to TOTALLY ENJOY THIS … Kelvin your internet Soldiers are out here … I been spreading the word to my work mates and there are all involved as well .. GOOD LUCK MATE AND WELL ON YAH .. a MASSIVE THANK YOU FOR SUCH VALUABLE INSIGHT … PERFECT 👍
I'm running Fyne Audio F502 from a Yamaha A-S1200 amp. I'm using a double run of Kimber 4VS to bi-wire. The bi-wiring makes a good improvement over the single cable run.
Tried bi-wiring/bi-amping with my Arcam AVR20 (you can enable bi-amp feature for fronts) and it did open the soundstage more and matched sound of Lyngdorf Amp which I think is impressive. I used relatively cheap QED cables £200 for a pair.
I am yet to do my Dedicated study upon the difference. I confess to having a part of me skeptical to the significant difference. I know i have heard speakers sound great - on just 'doorbell' wires - yes shock horror to the audiophile world! But to hear the difference i feel you have to give it your 110% to really notice. I have Quad 12l's bi-wired but i need to swap the large and slim cables across to really know - good test from you there Kelvin, and thanks again
I like the way you explain things. There are doubters on this bi-wire method & variables involved. Theoretically, one might be able to explain that each section (tweeter, woofer) when by-wired should be able to move independently to more closely follow the electrical impulses, but seeing the difference on an oscilloscope might yield some results or proof, thank you, subscribed
Very interesting! Good job !
If you bi-wire to separate channels on your amp and if your amp has gain controls you can tweak your high and low outputs and change the sound. Throw that in with an EQ and you can use lamp cord (which back in the day was 12ga solid copper) and it won't matter.
Nice video! I'm going to try this with my stereo.
If you like the tweaking you can do with cables, you can use for example Belden cable. High capacitance leads to the suppression of the higher frequencies somewhat. I use 1800B, probably this is also great for bi-wiring.Try it for your tweeters, as it’s highly revealing. I like 1313a as well, this is thicker and quite high in capacitance.
One of the last bi-njiring speakers and HiFi systems are made by Panasonic and the sound is specific...
I like your reviews, you are son natural and simlpy you, regards.
depends on the interconnect resistance you need to go for coaxial cable 75 ohms for interconnect if it's digital source, analogue source go for 50 Ohm's into a preamp or Poweramp 50 ohms give you about 2 of 3 DB drop in output what is preferred for solid-state don't do this from valve stick with 75 ohms. Belden cable is probably the best cheapest. Always use 60 50 or 30 ohms possibly from turntable to preamp don't go with 75 ohms this will give you less output as I said but makes a cartridge more sensitive
Great taste in music!
Was thinking the same thing chum
Linn black interconnect is hard to beat, it can make a big difference. Get it cheap used on Ebay.
Great review as always..I’ve used all types of cable, I’ve used Belden in the past and its really good.
But now I look on the auction site and I’ve always come up with some bargains for really decent cable,although it all seems a bit of a lottery as to what improvement in sound you will achieve.
I’ve used that Van Damme speaker cable and it comes in different thicknesses, it’s pretty good for the price too ..
Van Damme is a "pro" cable, and probably looked down on by audiophiles. But it's affordable and rugged!
If it's good enough for Pink Floyd, it ok by me.
Head to the shed and nick the cables from your old Arc Welder, and hook them up to your system. It worked very well for me for 25 years, until I invested in some quality Japaneses Speaker Cables of a similar gauge (thickness), 15 years ago. Thicker Cables do take wrestling to get them were you want. Also depending on the Banana Sockets Mounts, you may need to suspend very heavy Cables to remove pressure of the Banana Sockets.
SCIENCE: Signals move along the skin of a wire, so the more wires, the greater the surface area the signal can use. Also the lower the Resistance, less energy is lost (heat). The more pure the copper used the easier for the electrons to travel, the more efficient the cable, and lower resistance.
In my experience it does improve sound quality and the noise floor lowers but ONLY when bi wiring is done and healing crystals are placed in a deltoid pattern at the base of the speakers and amplifiers. Works even better with crystals placed around the source aswell as on the listeners pants pockets.
Yes.. It creates an audible difference
needed a bit more visuals on the Bi wiring. its all new to me .thanks
Lgbti wiring my friend, get the latest.
Bi-Wiring is just OK, you should consider Bi-Amping, a whole different level in sound!
Just make sure you remove the metal bridges(Jumpers) between the 2 speaker terminals or you will fry your amps!
bi amping can actually sound worse due to phasing issues, im a musician and can vouch for this. there is always a delay of sound between amps unless they are identical and serviced.
@@Synthematix I use an active crossover, it eliminates that issue and I can equalize my speakers to my liking.
I use a tube power amp for the midrange and high frequencies and a solid state power amp for my low frequencies with great results!
Great video.
Dead right mate it does make a difference you can hear a lot more going on Nice Vid
It makes no difference whatsoever. What you are ''hearing'' is 100% in your head. You only THINK you can hear a difference even though there is none.
@@zedcarr6128 Yes they do I also have very good hearing not like yours, Bye Bye
@@stevepickering5978 no it don’t. It’s in your head
Hey there, new to your channel and really like the advice. Got a question, I have a Yamaha RXA3080 and wanted to know if it makes sense to run a Pioneer M-72 4x100 watt amp through the Yamaha pre-outs to i-amp front LSI-9 Polk speakers or just use one of the Yamaha's channels not being used on my 5.1.2 set up? Thanks Ron
Great watch again ... Quick Q are your BC1's modified for biwiring ?
I allways do this using two amps, the right channel runs woof and left covers tweet. One dual mono amp per speaker.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I will Bi-Wire today!
p.s. My test-song for the last 10 years is always Behemoth - Decade of Therion
So how’d it go?
I’m just wondering if I should do this on my klipsch 600m
i tried ti my klipsch rb81 ii .. it sounds fuller, bass more tightly.. the harshness of the klipsch reduce.
Tried it with my Cambridge axr100 and Klipsch rp5000f speakers. I did notice sound improvement and seems now have to apply less powers to speakers.
Got a pair of Monitor Audio speakers today and ran them normally and biwired. I'd say theres more clarity for sure when biwired.
Van Damme make various cables etc mainly for muscians playing live or when recording... guitar/bass etc & microphones, all types of studio & live playing cables..they have a Road Series & Studio Series & do quad balanced cables for mic's & active monitors.... they use good quality OFC copper, are very flexable, come in a variety of types... mono, stereo, balanced, quad balanced....i use Van Damme Road & Studio Series cables when playing bass live or when recording...my bass guitar cable, pedal cables ,mic cable & speaker cabinet/s cables (2 x 2.5mm diameter cable, non sheilded) are all Van Damme....their very good value & quality for the price.....
Hi! Do you have any schedule on when you'll hold live chats?
Very nice! My question is: if you combine the two reds and two blues into one banana plug each going into one post in the amp, do you still get the tweeter and woofer separated in different speakers (if you switch off A or B)? See 3:27. And where do you connect on the amp using four banana plugs? All A or a B posts or a mixture of A and B posts?
Could you sometime show the inside of a speaker that has two sets of speaker connections. Im still not clear on why biwiring helps. Id be curious to see the signal path. Thanks!
i do believe cables make a difference but i also feel a slight side of mentality makes u maybe think its better lol great video mate thanks heaps :)
great video what happens if you live the posts connected and you just connect 1 positive and 1 negative
Greetings from Scotland. ..dnm reson solid core...great stuff .....better than naim nac5. ....I used a 3 gang ex BT mains conditioner. ..my god the difference in sound and vision was incredible a good 10% I'd say...
Very interesting thanks K
And the old Tannoy speakers used only a first order crossover.. just a cap on the tweeter and inductor on the woofer ...
i had a Sugden A48 it was a great amp paired with Tannoy Cheviot Speakers and a Rega 3 Turntable they sounded Fantastic together but sadly the Sugden died i wish i still had it
The Sugden a 48 is a killer Amp I did a review of it if you’re interested
no, but they bring good profits to the cable manufacturers
Hi, love your videos. I need help, Sansui A40 or Pioneer SA 6500 ii ? I know you love Sansui, this a40 is from the early eighties.
Yes Sansui were going off the boil by then for sure I will probably get the pioneer if it was me. K
Try equal length 14awg wires on tweeters and 16awg wires on woofers. then swap them around the other way and compare. Or with different gauge (14awg + 11awg...) but you get the gist.
Also, I like to use 14/4 wire (14awg, 4 conductor) since I can use it for 14awg/4c Bi-Wire, 14awg/4c Bi-amp or twist 2 conductors together to make a 11awg/2c wire.
Hi there I liked your video. I'm I the process of making a little stupid for my garage. I have an arcam xeta one a/v amplifier. Is it possible to get some sound from it? With two celestial k12t-100 with tweeters all running off of one cable it seams. I can't see in the housing to see what the tweeters are. And input is large jack. Any help would be appreciated. Also there are many ports on the back of the amp do I just head for the loudspeaker outputs. Although there is front, surround and centre.
Kelvin not heard anything from you in months. Hope your ok pal really missing your reviews but mainly hoping your ok my friend.
so is thicker wire better for the Lows or the thinner wire?
Hi Kelvin , can you please show us your Arcam CD player and also tell us how it is different to modern Arcam or other CD players ..
Hi you can see the Arkham CD player in my new video quadand naim Power amps
I’m afraid I don’t have any up to the moment CD players I just test everything I can get my hands on
Cheers K
This is great & good advice. However only modern speakers have the necessary connections for bi-wiring. Vintage speakers on the whole do not. You can of course convert them if you know what you’re doing.
Say you were to start with a system is biwiring better then having a two monoblock set up?
tried bi wiring couldnt hear any difference. best tweak i did got a mains conditioner and upgraded my power supply, immediate result in better sound
Greetings from Scotland. ..yep I'm in agreement with you...I used an ex BT 3 gang mains conditioner from eBay very heavy....wow my screen improved and my sound, best upgrade on the cheap ever
My aged friend is an audiophile with huge knowledge and professional experience. He reckons household mains wiring is the best. Spending any more is a waste. My speakers have been bi wired for decades. They sound great. I did it because it was the fashion in the 1980s
Yes I’ve used mains wire in the past it’s just fine I mean there are small differences in cables truly
You have to be pretty rich to justify the small advantages of expensive cables.
K
Mains cable for the woofer, silver for the tweeter is the best option, model railway silver large track bus wire is the ultimate speaker cable:
High frequencies travel much better with silver wire, thats why we use it in digital model railways:
search ebay for "Large track bus wire" then with your drill make it into a twisted pair.
Hi can you give me a review of the wharefdale 4.4 speakers please, many thanks
direct to the tweeter? hope not, there will be a resistor and/or condensator. A cable lights or lower energy slightly, enhancing or lowering the frequency range. Tweaking money should go to a better source.
Can you do a bi-amping video, I started bi-wiring a few years ago, but I now do bi-amping and wow what a difference, I would love to know what you think .. great video as usual 10/10
His speaker was ‘bi-amp’ at the start of this clip. Using speaker A and speaker B for tweeter and woofer separately is bi-amp, using only speaker A and connecting 2 wires to tweeter and woofer without the bridge is bi-wiring, otherwise known as ‘I don’t have 1 thick cable so I will use 2 lengths of thin cable’. It is the same as using 1 cable and leaving the bridge plate in. There is only 1 source at the amp (speaker A), so all frequencies must go to the tweeter and the woofer.
You are turly a legend! I live in Surrey and would like to invite you over to have a look at my setup and maybe you can review it all at the same time.....? Denon Amp 3801 - 7 301 Bose / Mission speaker floor standing - other side of room is a Sony amp with SSb4ed speaker floor standing and book shellf. strange set up that I need help with.
Thanks mate ,good info,can you tell me what you think of subwoofers connected to Hi-Fi systems for bass,...any more songs reviews for Hi-Fi,cheers
Well I can’t say I’m a big fan of subwoofers some of them the base is very soft
Also I know bass is not very directional but it is a little bit
I prefer it coming out of my two speakers .
If possible.
Truly it’s not something I’ve messed around with much mostly heard in other peoples places was never that impressed doesn’t mean it can’t be good
Cheers K
*quad-amp with active crossover, and internal crossover disconnected is the way to go*
Coupla things. BW is all about commning the input to the speakers back at the amp terminals, not so much that one of the input wires runs direct to the terminal of the tweeter. Using AB switching outputs on an amp is sort of a no no for a variety of reasons but mainly because some amps (pretty ordinary ones) have the AB speaker switching wiring both pairs in series. This will create very odd results if you are biwiring.
Selecting both A+B increases the amp ohms. Running it like that on an lower ohm speakers stress out your amp
Amps drive speakers, the load, or impedance the speakers present is expressed in ohms, speakers with lower impedance require more current from the amplifier, 4ohm speakers will draw twice the current compared to 8ohm speakers.
Thanks a lot for the video. Question: If I did example b (bi wiring out of one set of terminals in the amp), and wanted to hear my tweeters alone -by some strange reason- by unplugging the woofer...would that fry my tweeters?
No that should be alright I did that just listen to the tweeter and then the woofer
Forgive my ignorance but wouldn’t it be the same exact thing if I just got a thicker cable??? I don’t the bi-wire.
Cables, they certainly contribute to the sound but it is nothing significant. But Bi-Wiring certainly do contribute quite significantly to the overall sound quality. I would say even more than 4%. In my case I would say that the sound betterred by even 10%. It was audible at first listen immediately.
Do you have a cross over in your amp before the output terminals? Otherwise the signal is the same in the two wires to the speaker but then filtered after the speaker crossover. Hearing bi wiring differences is the perfect example of placebo effect.
What do I need to do to make a center speaker that has 2 binding posts to make it with 4 so I can bi amp it except changing the speaker,the centre has 4 5.2 inch woffers and the tweeter is the klipsh RP 504c,I'm bi amping the front l and r so I need to do the same thing to center , have 2 extra basx A2 is a waist not to use them,but I can't change the centre I just bought it along with l and r main speakers,is bad enough finding out that the new RP line got out a month after I got the my RP 8000f and the RP 504c,so can I do something to the centre so I can bi amp it?
Next week passive bi-amping:) I have an Arcam A80 and a P80, but it is a very very little difference, not worth it, better buy one good amp the price of the two amps together:)
How t wire technics SB -EH760 tri wire speakers ?
2:15 The second benefit is "This wiring will go direct to the tweeter without going through the crossover". I am surprised by such a lack of understanding. I've been designing high performance speakers for over 30 years and have never provided a bi-wire option. If anything, having the option to bi-wire on a loudspeaker can often mean the crossover is less optimally designed than it could be. Manufacturers don't believe it makes a difference, but are compelled to include them for fear of losing a sale to a competitor. I guess one cannot argue with the claim, "but I can hear a difference" because those making the claim refuse to be subject to any form of controlled test, but at least it allows the rest of us to judge the credibility of their opinions about other aspects of audio. Sorry Kelvin, I have the greatest respect for you and I always enjoy your videos, but was disappointed by this one. I would have thought someone like you would be dispelling these myths not reinforcing them.
Some people seem to think the lows keep obediently to one cable and the highs to another. It's the same signal in both wires arriving at the speaker terminals. Bi wiring is an example of the placebo effect.
I just fulfilled a long--time, childish fetish dream and upgraded from two mono amps to four... the unused spare connections on the speakers and the pre.amp always gave me autism :D With great power comes great responsibility at the power knob, as the adage goes...
Surely having two cables running from a connector from the amp is exactly the same as bridging the connectors on the back of the speakers?
@John Kelly read my above post.
Bi-wiring doen't "remove" any crossover parts: the crossover is (say) a high pass section and a low pass section.
As you say, you are using a "fatter" cable, but you may get the same results with two (different) cables and the shunts still on the speaker.
It's better to not think about the $5 crossovers inside your speaker when you spend $2k on cables.
I notice with respect your honoust observations....but i was also impressed by a blind listening test one can see on utube between a highend expensif sysyem and wires and a very cheap , with cheap wires ,both with the same small ATC 2way speakers....the cheap used behringer poweramp with sony cheap player...the other used YBA pre and poweramp ,top expensif cables , yop teac vrds cd etc....most coulnd't tell difference and about the same amount of listeners prefered the cheap or the expensif system...all trained hifi enthusiasts and equipment hidden , only speakers apparent....notice the amps are both 2x100 watts with generous trafo....because clipping from underpowering is easily exposed
That sounds interesting I was going to try something like that but to be honest it seem too complicated but it’s a good idea
I like to listen to Jazz so the only thing that i was contemplating with biwiring is higher treble on the high hats or trumpet/sax solos. I own a pair of $3500 speakers running from a 130wpc Sansui amp and a dac, and biwiring was noticeable at first, how can i describe, the instruments became minutely cleaner, tighter. Personally I found highs to be too shiny to the point that it was noticeable and after a few hours, fatiguing and annoying. I've gone back to wire jumpers and single cable. Much better. I probably tend to like a more warm, mellowed, chilled tone, like that of a double bass or a jazzbox guitar. Maybe i need to buy myself a tube preamp... yes lets talk about tubes! I only trust my ears. Its like drinking wine or scotch - a very subjective experience at the end of the day.
Cheers my friend I’ll have a German weissbier
@@stereoreviewx Franziskaner or Erdinger?
Hi Kelvin,
I want to try this but my speakers, Dahlquist M905's only have 2 terminals.What should I do?Thanks.
Nothing you can’t do it K
Thanks a lot
Do what the speaker manufacturer wanted you to do!
Bi-wiring is only possible if you have A+B outputs on your amp, otherwise, you are just connecting both wires to the same output.
'Too High' - yes and no. There are loads of things that are worth checking out in the song. High hats, ride cymbals, electronic bass, chromatic harmonica, female backing vocals. Just what you'd expect from Stevie, he's a genius. Some of vocals however are given a peculiar phase effect which I find a bit off putting.
Yes I spotted that I don’t think he uses it all the time on that song
But I would say well spotted
I love how he likes Ian Dury. I feel like Ian Dury and the Blockheads are so underrated.
Totally and productions are good
Cables make the last 5 to 10 percent ....given a high(er) quality chain.
It maybe a silly question,but would it damage the tweeter just connecting it to the speaker output of the amp, without any kind of crossover??
It’s guaranteed To destroy the tweeter great big bass notes into tiny dome
As long as you do not exceed the thermal capacity of the voice coil, 5 -10W usually, and do not exceed peak excursion travel limit, under a single mm in many cases, it would not. Not very practical, but theoretically quite fessible.
If your tweeter is a piezo transducer then virtually NO current will be flowing through the cable feeding it because they are voltage controlled devices NOT current controlled devices like a moving coil speaker.
I suggest that people who are into HiFi, educate themselves in electronics. It will save you a lot of money. Or just ask a qualified electronics engineer on the Interwebs.
One thing I am confused about it is when I buy let's say AQ bi-wire set one end has 4 terminations, the amp end has 2 how does one know which is high or low? doesn't it come from the same wire at the end of the day?
Yes my friend it doesn’t matter which one is high or low and you’re right it does come from the same wire ultimately you’re doubling your cables which is good
And when it arrives at the speaker One wire will go straight to the tweeter Awelfa which means it is cutting out circuitry which is always good by wiring makes a small difference I would say
But it is a win-win just plain better all round
K
You are most definitely not doubling the csa of the cable and certainly not by-passing any circuitry, unless jumper qualifies as such. In bi-wiring, you are simply terminating two pairs of wires with the impedance that of the tweeter and that of the woofer only correspondingly, hence separating the current flowing into two branches based on frequency. You would be doubling csa, only if you left the jumpers in, which defeats the whole objective.
Can you just use cables that are twice the size and achieve the same result?
I mean I think that would help but the buyer wiring is cutting out some of the circuit path of the crossover which is good also
“You know”
What happens if you don't remove the plates
The plates just connect one positive to the other positive or negative to the other negative so you then just connect one positive one negative as normal with one lead if you were to take the plates out you would connected to the woofer or the tweeter
@@stereoreviewx I know that. But recently I hooked up some new speakers with my biwire kimbers and forgot to take off the plates. I don't think it caused any damage. Currently using a class D
Long winded and miss leading, Bi wire = both red cables at the amp end into red socket and at the speaker end the 2 red wires connect to the red sockets, same idea with the black cables. Bi amp which is what your showing, requires 2 red and 2 black at both ends connect as you would for left channel and then connect the other speaker the same using the right channel outputs.
what your talking about is crossover ,,no how many wires you use you need a cross over ,,this is new to me ,,,,
Whit bi wire connections we need to remove shorting bridges yes, but why?
Because if you don't, current corresponding to the frequency dependent load presented by the tweeter for the HF branch and Low midrange driver for the LMF branch will flow in both conductors defeating the whole objective of separating them.
You only need to remove the bridge when you bi-amp, as you are using 2 seperate amplifiers (speaker A and speaker B). Just like at the start of this clip. If you are only using speaker A, you can use as many pairs of cable that you can physically fit, or just use 1 thick cable and leave bridge plate in. there is only one source from the amp, so all frequencies go to both tweeter and woofer.
Remove those bridges and throw them away, they can completely ruin the sound quality because theyre directly causing mixing the tweet and mid signals.
@@brucebruce3841 Nothing to do with having one source, AC current can flow in many different ways at the same time, only DC wouldnt see any benefit from biwiring, but as audio is AC you are wrong. twin wiring 1. allows twice the current equalling in less stress and resistance is halved, 2, allows your tweets to be fed with proper silver cable not copper, 3, the bridge plate does more harm than good.
@@Synthematix ok, I’m not an electrical engineer, just someone who thought they knew a little bit about home audio. so I quickly looked up how electricity flows through copper in AC. It talked about skin effect and higher frequencies travelling on the outside of the copper. Does that also mean for bi-wiring to have better benefits, the second wire should have thicker strands of copper? and would more seperate strands - say using 10 cables not 2 give different results as well?
Speaker cables haha, good old twin multicore copper is all you need with a marker stripe
Twisted pure silver or silver plated in cotton or PTFE insulation sounds a liitle better, but I agree, the expense is injustified, if the system is not up to scratch.
@@paulb4661 hi I had a friend with thousands and thousands of pounds worth of Linn equipment, he swore by using solid core copper wiring the sort that electrician's use for your plug sockets. He sold me his old Linn Nexus speakers and wired them up using this this ring main wiring cable into my system and it did sound good.
That's funny.
Is this method measurable? When the answer is Yes, where can I find the results? Thanks.
Absolutely measurable. Count the money in your wallet, now go and buy another set of cables and count the money in your wallet again. See the difference?
Brilliant and easy to understand! @@wally7856