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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2022
- Harley-Davidson performance hinges on one single factor that can make or break your build. Unfortunately it's just one big compromise if you don't like the style of exhaust that makes the most power. Same goes for the air cleaner, but the air cleaner isn't so much a factor unless you have a very large displacement at or above 120 inches. The exhaust that looks the best and sounds the best may not make the most power. Popular choices like 2 into 2 aren't the best at making the big power but, if they have a crossover you can get the best of both worlds. Great sound and power delivery like a 2 into 1, but that's just half of it.
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What's your favorite exhaust? Do you compromise or just get what you want without worrying about power loss?
I like the sound of staggered shorties where the exhaust pipe enters the small then the larger diameter slip on and at the end it returns to the same diameter as the exhaust pipe. It has a good old school deep sound. No nozzles needed. I agree on the cross over pipe giving more than enough exhaust. On a side note about intakes and knowing if you have enough. If the engine intake is drawing oil out from the heads to where you can see it drip you need a less restrictive air intake. Thanks for dispelling the myths of intakes.
That’s tough…LSR on my twin cammed softy, Thunderheader on my Evo RK, no idea what kind of slip ons and true dual on my shovel. Love them all though. Far as favorites, couldn’t tell ya.
My favorite exhaust for look and sound is the Vance & Hines true duals for my 1999 EVO Springer. No baffles and the performance is fine with my Arlen Ness supersucker air cleaner and EV27 cam.
Vance and Hines Pro Pipe
Form follows function. Fab 28 all the way for my Dyna💪👍
Personally, I think the elephant in the room is the tune. Most people don’t realize it, but there are a ton of misrepresentations when it comes to dyno numbers. That’s why dyno charts are for the birds. These astronomical numbers are done with 6th gear dyno pulls. Most good tuners will do honest runs in 4th or 5th gear. The other thing is that no two dynometers are the same. Some are very liberal with the numbers, and others are conservative. The truth is that the seat of your pants will always tell you how your bike is performing. This obsession with numbers is absurd.
Agree. Peak HP numbers are sort of irrelevant if you are not always riding in the gear and RPM where the peak HP is made.
Exactly. My tuner tuned my bike to my riding style. I sacrificed a couple HP/Torque, but it's tuned for how I ride and gives me power where I want it and not 1000 rpm above or below where I normally ride. Chasing numbers is for nothing other than bragging rights if you actually ride your bike often. Who really wants 150+ torque immediately? I know I don't. I'd rather sacrifice some and hit it at 3500 rpm with a nice steady curve than hit all of it at 2200 RPM or not hit it until 4500 RPM
ABSOLUTELY
Old school 💪😊
I agree
Let’s not forget about the people who buy fuelpacks and powervision a are a “tune”.
I built a Road King from a wrecked 2008 Ultra Classic with a 110-cu in SE engine. Built the engine with Feuling OE+ camplate and oil pump and Wood TW 7-7H cams (same as my 01 RK 95" with Wood TW 6HG cam with Rinehart tru-duals with 3 1/2" mufflers). On the 110 build I used S&S tru-dual headers with Rinehart 4" mufflers. I have never dyno'd the 95" RK but it is lightning quick and a stump puller. Had the 110" dyno tuned and got a disappointing 102-HP / 109-ft/lb Torque. Road the bike for a while then discovered DK Custom selling disc's that are installed in the end of the mufflers (work similar to torque cones). What a difference the disks made. Have not had it dyno'd again; however, seat of the pants tells me it is much better.
Love my 2 to 1 short style bassani road rage on my 02 heritage softail 95 TC! It made the Jerry Branch performance set up another level! It did have the D&D dauls with a crossover pipe without baffles. The road rage is extremely loud on this bike with the baffle in it!
Harley engines are designed for torque and that's what I go with. I actually have a Vance and Hines original Pro Pipe with an original Cherry 🍒 Bomb muffler that I fabricated and with my modifications, the bike loves it. The amazing thing is that it actually isn't so loud that it has you talking to yourself while cruising but drop a gear twist the throttle and hold on...build for torque and HP will come...great video
Love my V@H pro.95 " t.c.
ProPipe for the win, I refuse to give it up!
Absolutely Hands down for me I always do the 2into1 Thunder Header system for all my Twincam's paired with the target tune power vision systems
Thunder header is decent, but it’s a midrange pipe that tries to pull again in the upper RPM. It’s mid way in performance. Their issue isn’t the muffler, it’s the collector merge. That’s the key in a 2-1, the merge.
Yup right where I like it
Pretty good video, I will give you big kudos for not saying back pressure. Every time I hear someone use that term it proves to me they are not educated on exhaust flow dynamics
A 2 into 1 exhaust will give you better performance hands down. Thunderheader is my favorite. Sound and performance can't be beat, but it is a louder pipe. Get the longer pipe so the sound outlet is behind the passenger.
I have the V&H long shots with the hidden crossover for my Dyna. With the "quiet" baffle I'm making 115 hp, and I forget the trq, but its up there. Took allot of work and money with other combinations before I hit this set up, and I think it's perfect. It's incredibly smooth, sounds perfect without the "blat" of open pipes, and is just a sweet heart on long rides. Plenty of HP and TRQ to keep it fun without the over heating and hard starts of those "I need numbers!" bikes that no one has any fun on in the end.
You're so right bro, as a Harley Tech I've seen so many people mis match performance parts that work against each other and then wonder why the numbers don't match the cash they spent ordering empty promises off line. Hope You had a Happy Thanksgiving as well my friend.
What do you think about Blow Performance Exhaust pipes?
HD makes the best looking bikes on the planet... I stay stock :-)
My V&H duel radius probably isn't the best choice for the 110 tire shredder kit but damn it looks and sounds rowdy AF!!!
this debte took me forever personally. i ended up going with TAB perfomance 2-1-2 with the 4" BAM sticks and Zombie baffles. I had BAM Sticks on my las bike and LOVED them!!!
I went with Rinehart true duals on all four of my TC 96 HD's, but on my 4th bike, a 2010 Ultra, I also had the cams replaced. Wow! Big difference. California is making it hard to upgrade your exhaust, and expensive if they catch you. TAB Performance makes a good stock-looking header system too.
Rode my FatBob with slip ons for a few years. But now it's time to get rid of the Cat, and get a better looking exhaust. Ordered a stainless Bassani RR3. Being louder is a safety feature too.
I am a fan of the Thunder Header exhaust. The picture of the W3 Feuling was cool!
My 03 FLH has true dual ceramic coated headers and Supertrapp mufflers with the discs and closed end caps !!! Runs beautiful and smooth all day long. I always Loved those mufflers. Saw them on an old BMW PD 1000cc and an HA with them on an FXR and had to run them myself when I made the system. Cruising along at 70mph you just hear the engine working and a warbling behind you. Never once cared about the "numbers" I just wanted it to take me and my shit wherever I want to go for as long as it takes and it does it all.
2 into 2 with a cross over. A win win for me. 2 of my 3 bikes have them. Grateful video.
Which exhaust do you have, u have a heritage 2017 and was looking at Samson fishtail. Do they make a crossover so it can be a two into one into two? Thanks.
@300shields VH Longshots. The factory head pipe has a crossover built into it, this is on my 2020 Sportster Roadster.
Cobra also makes a 909 Speedster, full exhaust with a crossover that works good.
v&h 2 in 2 big radius for my bagger awesome sound
Those are some awesome exhaust and they typically make 5 horse more than short shots.
You are exactly right with stock header pipes & aftermarket mufflers that's hard to beat ! I have a freind that's been dyno tuning for well over 10 years & he has showed me that fact many times !
Great information once again!! Always enjoy learning from your videos,
Love your channel! Thank you
Happy Holidays Gixxer! Thanks for all the help for us 96 cu in lovers.
Let me start by pretty hardcore Hardy man but till this day is still amaze me how some people spend 25-30 Grand on a motorcycle the first they want to do is make go faster or handle better
Love the Shovel pic!
Another awesome blog!
👍 - another informative installment, cheers.
💯 %. I did a 30/30 cam in my 114 I had a true duels system with Krome werks. I didn’t like the Dino numbers. I swapped out to a 2into one. S&S system I gained 12 hp and 8 torque with the exhaust. Definitely the exhaust is very important
Another Eureka...best knowledge shared Thanks again. Sir, I salute you.
S&S sidewinder 2 into 1 real happy with this pipe on my had stage 3
Not sure on the cross over...it seems more of a middle ground between "true" 2-2 and 2-1 systems.
Yes factory headers with a good set of slip ons can be amazing, my 2014 xl1200c made 90/90 with a stage one heavy breather and a set of v&h slip ons (now going down the 2-1 path, due to where it will be spending time in the rpm range)
I am unsure about my 89 fxsts it will be sitting in the benifical 2-1 rpm range (highway crusing) but unsure of looks, the Rinehart 2-1 seems to look way to long (if it was a little shorter maybe)while i enjoy the looks of the Rinehart 2-2...
Great video, very informative.
Hands down nothing can compare to any 2 into 1 exhaust.
Great video. I'm also a true believer in the right exhaust system.
Vance & Hines 2 into 1 into 2 with a woods 22xe cam, and a thunder max auto runner. Dyno results 120hp, tq 128 motor 107
That cam is a beast. Those numbers out of a relatively stock 107 are pretty impressive.
Great information and video!
Hey brother awesome information as usual something to think about.
All the best from NZ 🇳🇿
My 2012 Roadking has S&S power tune head pipe and SVT Boneshakers mufflers. I took baffles out and installed Thunder Toque Inserts. I love the setup.
True duals are the worst exhaust system for any performance bike build. They have no exhaust scavenging. I agree that two into one is the best for performance and a dual system with a crossover is the next best thing. And thank you for telling the world what I've been saying for too many years, V&H short shots are the absolute worst exhaust system for a performance build. I call them slow shots...
Panhead Andy
Prestige Custom Cycles
Elmsford NY
Great info Gixxerfoo! I have V&H Staggered Shots on my 883 and they work pretty good. I pulled the baffles and installed a set of DK Customs 1 5/8" Thunder Torque inserts and I could feel a difference! It may be a small difference, but they work. The trick is getting rid of the reversion, that's what they do. So, if someone has the Short Shots, they are worth a try.
I recently upgraded my camchest on my 88ci. I def felt the gains but I'm running a true dual system with 39in mufflers and a big city thunder baffle. I bet if i was running a 2-1 system, i would feel way more gains. My tuner advised that to me and he was right. Thanks for the video again mate👌💪
Stage 4 114 on my 2018. Went with a good cam and tune with powerduals and S&S Grand Nationals. Very pleased with the results after the dyno. I originally had the dresser duals on it but they did not dyno well with the whole kit. It’s definitely a constant learning process.
Can you do a video on the mag wheels having the pulley come off with bolts shearing?
It seems to happen all the time on every forum or group
Thanks for another honest video 👍🏻
@523 ypu showed the Big Shots staggered after commenting about the lack of a 'crossover' section in the headers.However
...at least on the newer 18 M8s V&H have added a crossover section to the Big shots.I just put it on my new Fat Bob.Great content BTW.EDIT:you just showed the big shots then with the crossover.My bad....I jumped the gun.Rock on😀
Thanks for your exhaust input and I hope in the future you visit indepth the old adage of: "There's no replacement for displacement". I installed a 131 crate motor with the recommended super duper Harley downpipe and Khrome Werks slip ons. So far so good but I must admit having outgrown the Stage 4 Harley upgrades and am considering the 22XE cam. I've watched your cam video and hope you can revisit this winter sometime the pro's and con's of different cams in big bore, (131 and up), applications. Thanks in advance
I didn't know that about the 'cross-over', cool info...
YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE RPM RANGE YOU WANT TO RUN THEN MATCH EVERY THING TO IT IF PARTS DON'T MATCH YOUR WASTING MONEY HAPPY TRAILS
When I bought second hand 2006 xl883, it came with v&h straight shots full system. I changed to factory headers and khrome weeks mufflers. Bike feels very responsive and pulls hard between gears. I also like the sound, it's very deep and mellow while cruising on freeway but loud while accelerating. V&h was loud all the times, it was tiring after a while. Volume at idle is same but very deep with khrome werks. It made big difference in way bike makes power.
The “best” exhaust is the one you a) like that also b) supports your configuration now and c) in the future.
If you have a shop you like and (more importantly) trust, just ask them.
If not, call Fuel Moto and tell them what you have and plan on doing and they’ll give you recommendations. For example when my warranty ran out and I did my Stage I I called them, told them it would be stage 1 only this year but that I planned on a 96 to 107 or 110 in two years, and that I was considering a Trask turbo a year or two after that - so they made sure I bought an exhaust that would support a turbocharged 110 while warning me that if I went bigger than about 113 (turbo) I’d need a bigger exhaust, but that doing so was so expensive I might as well go to 120 (the turbo would also require a larger air cleaner, but that Trask included that in their kit so not to worry about it).
The best part? Not only did they suggest exhausts they sold, but also gave me a few models with very different styling that they didn’t sell but knew would work. Any salesman who will tell you when the best fit for your needs is sold by someone else is a salesman you can trust, but I liked their exhaust (and it’s price) so bought from them anyway. I’ve since also bought their 110 kit, had the, do the porting, increase compression, etc - all with great results (I did the install, they did the machining).
Yeah. That’s solid. You don’t see many salesman doing that these days.
Heritage Softail Classic 2008 installed Andrews 48h cams, and put in the cobra power pro HP 2 into 1 thought I would lose horsepower but actually gain three hp. 10foot lbs of torque . Not.to bad of sound .Have a great weekend . love your videos !
If I had a Touring Harley-Davidson my biggest concern would be how it sounded to me.
I always have a tendency to lean toward Vance and Hines longshots 2n2. I have to have 2 mufflers on my dresser and dual fishtails on my Heritage Springer. Although, I do have Victory Performance Exhaust 2 into 1 on my Kingpin. I don't hotrod too much anymore so I go with the look and sound. Good info. Thanks man.
Thunderheader all the way!!!
I’ve been running them since 2002
2014 Firefighter Streetglide just have K+N and slip on RCX exhaust pipes. Sounds 100% better then stock obviously. Also a 2005 Deuce ,Kuryakyn air filter, Power Commander, with full S+S Gear Drive, adjustable push rods , oil pump ect ect with 509 gear Drive cams ,also BUBA Pipes . And man is it LOUD . My bikes run great Thank God for what they are . Personally hate cross overs like the original Duce pipes, and two into one on a bagger 🤢.Another Great Video 👍♥️🇺🇸🇬🇧😎
If my state would relax their laws a bit, I'd replace the stock HD headers and V&H slip-ons on my 2011 Limited with a new Rinehart true dual system.
✊🏻👍👌I had a thunderheader and it looked like a saxophone on there .
Sorry but 2&2 fer me with cross over -
I just went with the pipes that came on the bike when I bought it. I bought used and it has the V/H short shots now I am learning that they cost me power " well maybe so " put it still feels good to me and ar the price of pipes these days they are likely to stay
I've been playing with different baffle sizes and lengths for my hammer performance sportster. I've done 2.5" perf, 1.75" diameter /10" longreducer, 1.75" diameter / 2" long and now I'm running a 2" louvered baffle wrapped. It's crazy the differences between the baffles / inserts. Small reducers make partial throttle inputs very high in torque. The bigger baffles give it a lot more top end
Find a Patriot Defender 2-1, you’re welcome….
@@scottmorgan133 lol they can't be found anywhere!
Well I have a set of fishtails...so I know I'm loosing somthing...but I have a fp3 and a 103ho...and I'm happy
I run a fab28 on my fxlrs. Don’t see any reason to run another. Fab28 has the looks,performance and sound!
The question is why, I have a Stage 2 Twin Cam Springer and tbh it's a death trap, with more power than the spaghetti frame and bicycle brakes can handle. I bought a rice rocket for less money than just the Stage 2 and it's a missile on wheels, handles like a dream.
Imo it's a Weiner waving, pissing contest, driven by the aftermarket, with people thinking they need more and more power. I also have a 300cc bike with 33hp that does everything I want, including 2 up riding.
Great insight as always man, love the videos you put out! I'm upgrading my 88tc to a 98, 11.3:1 compression (with the heads to go with it) S&S E carb/thunder jet installed with velocity stack. Knowing how important exhaust is, I'm torn between V&H straight shots and the pro pipe. Sound isn't as important as elapsed time lol. Do you have any suggestions?
Great video Gixx, my favorite exhaust is the Vance and Hines x pipe. You get the 2 into 2 with the chrome plated crossover. I'm no expert but if used in the right application, wouldn't the exhaust help pull air/fuel in?
Happy Holidays GF...
Good on you thanks
yes , you are right , really short pipes can rob up to 20 bhp and just make noise , countering any hop up mods you have done to a large extent , unless you have a flow chart for your bike [ no one has ] its a common sense approach to try and match all the parts ;;
This topic is what I think about when I wake up at 3am.the brain turns on and won’t turn back off. I put s&s power tune duals with rinehart slipons on my 88. When I had the 88 built to a 106 stroker,my builder wanted me to put a dnd 2-1 on it. I decided to stop the bleeding there and stuck with the s&s just to save some money. I still think about swapping out but can’t make the decision to do it. I know I’d gain a bit more,but do I reaallly need to?I like how it sounds as it is. It doesn’t sound near as vicious as my wife’s 110 roadking with the 2-1 pro pipe,but it does sound nice and I like the power (more is never a bad thing though).This is the debate that’s been goin on in my head for a very long time.
Although the Scout already has crossover pipes, I've got my eye on a Bassani 2 intto 1
I went with the 2 into 1 rhinehart on my stage 4 107. It’s loud and slappy sounding on the lower rpm range which I don’t especially care for . It sings higher up. Stage 4 is about performance. Anything other than 2 into 1 is out of question regardless of sound.
Every mechanic at my shop said the best performance exhaust you can put on the twin cam is a 2 in to 1. Bar none
So I’ll keep my Thunderheader tyvm
Cheers
I ran S & S 2 into 1 on my evo dresser for over 20 years. Head porting & tourqe cam. Bike ran very well indeed.
My M8 has factory headers with Screaming eagle mufflers. Reasonably good sound and complements stage 2. Very happy and CARB compliant.
This is off topic, can you elaborate on possible causes for oil contaminated with gas on the big twin. Is some normal? I do enjoy your information, and try to catch every video. Thanks! I'll eliminate one thing, it's not for lack of mantience. The engine has 16k on it oil changed regularly and it was broken in proper, 103 twin cam
Vance Hines
Could you do a video of listing ghd performance and benefits to certain exhausts for the Sportster?
How about the V&H 2 into 1 into 2 on a Road King? I loved the 2 into 1 on my Fatboy and gave me a bump in performance
when you push 100 HP out of a EVO hold on . I was smoking 103 Twinkie's I am doing a New Build here in a Month EVO 20 over 3.515 in that area EV23 cam ported heads 1,990 valves intake 1.660 exhaust . I hope to pull about 100 HP with 120 torque . I have 2 into 1 on my Road king the duel exhaust left side is fake . Why is it I have a Need for speed and power but it is not cheap .
I have an '01 road glide that I built a 10 and 1/2 to 1 compression 113 inch engine my original exhaust system that I had used for years was a pair of screaming eagle turn of the century mufflers they were basically glass packs I am now running a two into one system and it sucks about 15 horsepower off the top it just can't revise it used to but it is quieter. After 8,000 miles I've decided to take it off and change it back to the old loud one cuz the bike just ran so much better with the open pipes but I am running a high compression big inch engine
Harley performance hinges on one factor. Having super deep pockets otherwise you get nothing lol.
I'll disagree I have woods 777 cam's with a custom tune and short shots on a slim 103 B ya I lost a little bottom end torque but my bike screams all the way to redline it pulls the entire time WAY faster then stock
I'm in the process to get S 1 for my 2020 FLHTP. My decision is an outlaw 606 air cleaner with transformer EBS from DK Custom as I like to reuse my air cleaner cover . Head pipe from tap performance 2-1-2 and slip ons 4.5" from Sharkroad with 2.5" baffles. Tuner I'm undecided. V&H claims that you can load custom maps into the FP4 in the future which I need as I want a S&S S2 475 gear kit afterwards. First autotune and then when S2 is installed, get it properly tuned. Avoids the double tuning cost. On the other hand, a power vision is a safe bet and worked well on my old bike. What's your take on this subject? Good video, ride safe 🤙
I have a Supertrapp Supermeg running 22 discs/closed end cap on my 2014 Slim with 110" big bore and Cyclerama 570-2 cam. Runs really good, but I know I'm leaving performance on the table. The shop initially put a Pro Pipe on but WAY. too loud for me. Any other suggestions for this setup with a reasonable sound level?
What's your thoughts on this new PCX exhaust V&H is putting out? I can't find much information on the technology or anything that went into it.
Love the Foo vids
I am putting Wood Tw-222 cams in my 2009 96 Electra Glide. In another video you talked about swapping in 103 heads with 10.5:1 Pistons and I was wondering if the 103 heads with stock 96:1 Pistons would be worth it or not. The price difference is about $200-$300 more from what I can see online. I don't care much for top end hp, I care more about the torque.
Since you said you can ... What combination of Air filter, exhaust would you do on a 2018 FLHXSE 117 with a Wood WM8-22XE?
Harley-Davidson secret is performances simple dinero money that's all you need
I have 14 flhxs with a d&d fat cat and a Arlen Ness snorkel and a FP3 the rest is stock for now, can I get to much airflow? It pops sometimes when shifting.
Any inputs on this t.a.b. exhaust for baggers?
Kinda pricey but I've heard good things.
Lmk!
I have a 2008 Softail deluxe with Vance n Hines exhaust. The rear exh sits at the height of the rear brake caliper. I couldn't get the passenger pegs I wanted so I compromised. I'm thinking on cobra true duals with billet caps. What do u think?. I like exh on each side of the bike but don't like fish tails.Dont need excessive hp. Highway riding only. What do u think of Arlen Ness 90 ° velocity air cleaner? Drag specialities has it for $308 n titan customs for $300.
2017 SE stage 4 roadster with 585 cam sndbi have powervision 3. Im exhaust shopping now. I have short shots and they are definitely not staying. What would you recommend to maximize power/torque? Looks and sound be damned this buildnis purely about performance at this point. Im going to hit the dyno this spring.
Am i losing anything with V&H power duels header w/twin slash slip on? 2016 road glide special
110 big bore, woods 999-6A cams, screaming eagle cam plate, high flow injectors, 58mm HPI Throttle body, screaming eagle clutch/ comp, heads, valves, T2 tuner, basically everything from the crank up...
Pushing 116 HP/125 Tq
I have the Vance and Hines two into two big radius without baffles. Can someone tell me what I’m gaining or losing with them? I don’t care about horsepower I’m looking for more torque. Going to add DK Thunder torque inserts. Thoughts? Any comments/reply would be muchly appreciated Cheers 🍻
I have a 08 Electra Glide Classic. I’m wanting new slip on’s thinking Tab 50 cal with Zombies maybe air filter. What tuner do you recommend? I would like it to be Flexible. If I decide to change cams ect. Thank you
Btw I only have 8000 mi on it.
I have same bike, get rid of the factory header, go with a true dual exhaust and what muffler you like, I went with V&H, nice low end sound and on highway they settle down and not annoying. Also do stage 1 and you will be happy. Well I am, all I need. Cheers.
I know this is off subject, but whats your opinion on adjustable pushrods versus taking the valve covers off and using the stock pushrods when replacing a upgraded cam?
Adjustable pushrods are good to have. Buy them once and use them forever. Saves a lot of time and money when you change cams or replace lifters.
i Got 2 into 1s on both my bikes baggers think the worse looks makes up for power of the bike
Gixxer got a stupid question, if I’ve have a slip-on, and want to go with a 2-2 crossover do I have to spend another 400 bucks for another Dyno run?
You need tourque for the street. Horsepower if you are racing trying to run somebody down on the dragstrip.
I haven't even bought my first Harley yet, but I figure if I see %90 of %1ers going with the Thunder header? I can't possibly go wrong........
It all depends. I’d say the one percenters on Sons of Anarchy prefer the Thunder Header. However I believe when you look at the Mayans MC that number will be substantially lower. I guess it just depends on how loud the exhaust has to be to drown out the sound of gunfire when they have shootouts on the interstate.
@@paulg5835 Personally I like sound from V&H, but I have heard of quality complaints? I would probably go with the Bassani Road Rage! 😉
@@Chris-gi9ch Glad to see you can take a joke. Hope you get your Harley soon man.
@@paulg5835 No joke......You got that right!
What Brand is the black exhaust that turns 90 degrees out?