Look up Mega Man X White City. It's a different version of the intro stage with an almost completely different style of futuristic setting. It seems to have some unnused enemies and maybe some unique events. Also, the angle is completely sideways like the NES Mega Man games rather than the perspective we got in the final game.
@@blackpants7385 The whole what XX and XY thing or something too. I think the story was in gamepro or something? And nintendo power posting screenshots of white city back in the day as a preview too.
The HUD text is red because the enemy palette is blank, save for a red color that occupies the space where white would usually be. And yes, that prototype music is good.
The prototype track sounds more like the version from the "Sonic & Knuckles+Sonic the Hedgehog 3" album An album which includes the tracks shared between s3 and s&k And all the zone tracks of s&k
@@DawidO-mg8zn funny how you mentioned the OST album, as I am trying to replicate some of those songs in the Genesis format. Here's my somewhat exact replica of Lava Reef's OST version: th-cam.com/video/eZnLIMo3UdM/w-d-xo.html
Dragonfruits uwu no, not really. This is a lot kore white, and the one we got is more brown and fits the fact that its literally around lava. Plus it looks more colorful in the final too.
I do like the look of this version. It's more mechanical, and fits in with the games theme more with the Death Egg ect. Hopefully one day a version with s&k zones will be released.
At first, it seemed like getting a single prototype of Sonic 3 would be impossible, but then we got this. Now people are considering the possibility of even more prototypes! There could still be more S&K data to recover, at least Lava Reef Act 2, and possibly some Mushroom Valley.
@Phillip Bell There's actually quite a notable difference, especially when compared to the final version. The pipes are completely different, the distant background is altered, the Death Egg is very different, some of the rocks are different, the indoor backdrop is completely different, the lava is different. I could go on for a while.
It was thought to be almost impossible to get a hold of this prototype considering how secretive Sega was regarding the development of Sonic 3. Everything was kept under tight security and supervision and few magazines were given access to prerelease material. This particular prototype comes from a magazine in the UK that was backed by Sega of Europe, and thus was allowed to have the EPROMS.
That beta LRZ is definitely pretty interesting. I wonder if someone will be able to find a prototype of the 1st version of Sonic 3,although that might be a difficult task like finding that famous Sonic 1 prototype.
If you look at the roof of the background you can see tge Death Egg sometimes. It looks like it uses a different sprite compared to the final version. In this one the Death Egg is upside down but in the final it is facing down as if it were turned 90 degrees clockwise. hope that made sense
It has red blinking eyes that goes along with the background of this game why do you think it was change? I heard someone say that it was probably too creepy and ask me that does the death egg and this mock up look scary to you
I imagine this build was from when they were starting to remove the sonic and knuckles zones, but this level data may be from when it was still one game
I'm not sure. The level is unfinished, but only in the lack objects. Both acts have full layouts completed, and the parallax and palette cycles are all working at this point.
The parallax is part of the scrolling background effects. You know how the background is layered to give the perception of depth? That's the parallax scrolling effect.
Do we actually know how sandopolis, hidden palace sky sanctuary and death egg may have looked at this point in development (but death egg has a collision change object in act 2)
It’s the relative completeness of this level that makes me think that if Sonic & Knuckles weren’t to exist that Lava Reef would have likely made it into Sonic 3. Probably the same with MVZ and possibly FBZ, too. I suspect that in such an alternate reality that Lava Reef would have been a mid-game level, maybe one or two levels before Launch Base.
Flying Battery was first planned to be put after carnival night zone and we use the metal door we knock off in flying battery as a snowboard in ice cap zone so yes FBZ would 100% be in Sonic 3 if what you said would happen
@@TheGael95 FBZ is in the process of moving to s&k, obviously, and LRZ is just leftover data that the developers forgot to delete at the time of this prototype
@@Zecolarii ...when I tried to move Sonic to the right, there was nothing, no enemies, rings, or even trees. Just a straight grassy line. After running for a while, I encountered the sign post, but when I touched it...
I noticed something else when playing this zone, and it's that collision is worse in areas around those yellow pipe things or where they touch the surface. I even found an area where you can walk into one and maneuver around inside of it to get to a lower part of the stage, but there's still collision on the rocks surrounding it. Maybe these pipes were meant to be transport tubes, sort of like the ones in Act 2 and Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2.
The collision here is not representative of the level at all. It's taken from Sonic 3C 0408, a much later prototype where Lava Reef was almost finalized. The original collision could not be recovered from the ROM.
I'm glad you have this prototype and you can now make videos of it.I always notice you find little miniscules of information nobody else finds that's actually interesting.Would you mind making a video on all the musical differences and comparisons to the pc versions and original genesis versions?I worded that pretty badly but I'm sure you understood
Well, like Bloxy said, other people have already done that and probably have done a good job at it. Sonic Chaos was an exception because there weren't perfect rips at the time because it isn't as popular.
@@corpsemachine6949 th-cam.com/video/_bp_c73awuQ/w-d-xo.html All proto music, the cutting room floor will have a ton of info, so go check that out too.
. JJ1013 frequently dev cartridges were EEPROMS that could be overwritten as dev went on. The thing is if your cartridge was bigger than your game you wouldn’t bother with a full write, you’d just write your game and not touch the rest of the cart thus bits of whatever was on there before would be left.
Looking at sonic's looping hanging animation makes me wonder if they initially wanted to have phyiscs-based animation code in the final game for when sonic is hanging from tails (i.e. having sonic's hanging sprite change based on tails' horizontal momentum). There's like, what, 7 frames total in that animation??
Hello Chainspike/Silver Sonic 1992, I want to tell you that an older copy of the universal voice bank has been found inside of the Competition Menu's track. What happens if we apply it to all other tracks? We might probably never know... or will we? Also, there happens to be leftover data for the competition levels from earlier builds! Azure Lake, Balloon Park and Desert Palace's leftovers seem complete for the most part, whereas Chrome Gadget and Endless Mine's art is gone due to being below the cutoff regions. Also leftover from earlier builds are 2 palette tables. Also in the leftovers, there are irrelevant pieces of Star Trek data near the Sonic 3 sound driver, which might be the result of burning and compiling EPROM chips. A similar situation occured in the Sonic 2 Nick Arcade and Simon Wai prototypes. (In Nick Arcade's case, it was Kid Chameleon's compression, which is used for Green Hill's chunks, and in Simon Wai's case, they were leftover graphics from an unknown Chiki Chiki Boys prototype.)
Mushroom Valley unfortunately had its data cutoff. However, with the combination of the intact data + S3C 0408 data it may be possible to work something out!
it wasn't in Sonic 3's level select, so I'll gather it was very early in development still. the white rocks (which could be palette swapped orange/blue later) and the lava that doesn't hurt you and I think that one ramp thing that doesn't work tells me it was just a mere tech demo for the graphical assets. seems to be the recurring theme with these prototypes, lots of the playable functionality is missing from all of them and they're not worth playing as games. the historic element of them is really cool though.
The reason it does not appear in the level select is because it's from a different version of the game. Lava Reef (and other S&K zones) was only playable in Sonic 3C builds of the game, while the prototype we have is Sonic 3A using data that was restored.
@@SilverSonic1992 that's roughly what I said lol. 3C came after Sonic 3 retail, I'm saying it wasn't in any playable state when they released Sonic 3 in Feb 1994 is what I'm deducing. the proto one wasn't close to being functional or playable/accessible without debug mode. all the prototypes were missing a lot, that's why I say they were tech demos for internal use at Sega. I'm agreeing with you, not arguing.
@@mecha2001 Well, Sonic 3C was always the original unsplit version of Sonic 3. It was the master source version and Sonic 3A and Sonic 3B (Sonic & Knuckles) were simply split modifications of that. The prototypes we have of it are much later, but it always existed. I wouldn't say that Lava Reef was a "tech demo", but rather that was more or less the state that the level was in before focus had shifted to get the Sonic 3 half done in time. Keep in mind, we don't have all the data relating to Lava Reef either. The collision wasn't possible to restore and perhaps the same was even true of the object layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 (total word salad/text wall because I want to get this all out) yeah I think they just kind of stopped trying to have Sonic & Knuckles integrated into Sonic 3 and just went with trying to get Sonic 3 out. my point about Sonic 3 stage select omitting Lava Reef, Death Egg, and Doomsday... all 3 of those zones were incomplete and unplayable in the 3C prototype, I don't think that's a coincidence, I just don't think they got that far yet when Sonic 3 final came out. Flying Battery I think (been looking at too much TCRF) was intact in Sonic 3A (either final or proto or both, help me) but obviously very incomplete. Launch Base was apparently always intended to be the middle, and Flying Battery's progress being behind/needing another zone for Knuckles is why that got moved. my point about the tech demo thing, there's no Giant Rings/Chaos Emeralds or Super Sonic in the prototype, it's not in any kind of finished state, it's cool it exists but it's not what I would consider a playable game. going back to 3C/Limited Edition, Sega made the right choice not releasing Limited Edition, I think they got more bang for the buck having the Knuckles Sonic 2 option with the Lock-On game. it's incredible how deep of discussion can be had about this.
@@mecha2001 The earliest Sonic 3C prototype we have (April 4th, 1994) has all of the Sonic & Knuckles in a near-complete or playable state, aside from The Doomsday Zone. Flying Battery Zone was intact in this prototype, and still has some leftover data in the final version of Sonic 3A. Like you said, it was behind schedule and it actually is the most unfinished S&K level in Sonic 3C 0408 (aside from Doomsday). Another interesting thing about Sonic 3C/Limited Edition is that they did actually plan to release it in Japan as the original version of Sonic 3, but ultimately, time ran out again and they eventually released Sonic 3A months after everyone else received it. Oh, I see what you meant about the tech demo. Yeah, these prototypes were primarily for internal testing and were never meant to be seen by the public (aside from a few screens in the case of this one).
Didn’t Lava Reef Zone 1 have a few other alternate layouts? TCRF mentions there being 6 full maps and 2 fragmented maps of LRZ1, and this only seems to show one of them off. Will the others be shown someday?
That is the only section of the layout that they appear in. This section still exists in the final, although with different visuals and the addition of rising lava.
I don't get how Sonic 3 & Knuckles in full is 4mb. Like it should be 3, in early 1994 nobody was producing 32 megabit cartridges, 24 was the new. By late 94 and most of 95 32megs became common but I really don't think Sonic 3 is 32 megs. Maybe if you add on the sonic 2 data chip and blue sphere the Sonic 3 & Knuckles together would technically be 4mb but I'm pretty sure it's 3mb. I once saw this really long post about why it's not as big as ads said and most people that I'm aware of since these were first leaked said it was supposed to be a 24 megabit cartridge, which makes sense. This isn't graphically stunning like DKC, Terranigma, Secret of Mana 2. If Sonic 3 alone was 16 megabits, Sonic & Knuckles should've only been 8. But who knows, maybe the extra little things that are only present when connected got it to be a few more megabits, I'm pretty sure the 32 (even 34 was advertised) has been debunked.
If you've ever seen a ROM file of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, it will be 4MB, which is 32 megabits. The advertised 34 megabits is because Sonic & Knuckles also includes a 256KB or 2 megabit ROM for Knuckles in Sonic 2. The original plan before the split was to apparently release the game on one 24 megabit cartridge. That is at least what magazines printed at the time. Sonic & Knuckles has to include a ton of redundant data as most of the code in the Sonic 3 cartridge is unusable due to hard coded addressing (everything gets shifted by 2MB when locked on to Sonic & Knuckles).
Ive been asking all over, can anyone PLEASE help Does anyone know how I can test out the maps not selectable? Mushroom and Sandopolis are in the menu but do nothing. Ive tried finding game genie codes but, the only ones I found are for a 'mushroom valley and lava reef act 1 decompression' on sonicretro and cant get to those levels to try them :/
@@SilverSonic1992 Oh no wayyy!!! Thank you, I had been freaking out I tried using the normal sonic 3 game genie codes and they weren't doing a thing... I was like uhh wait. I really appreciate it, Initially when these came out, I saw the videos so many times that I never really cared to try and go through it all myself... I played through the prototypes normal levels some, but I was sitting here like HMMM Im bored lets do it. I also tried getting the thing to work in your other video,,, the knuckles possible prototype ending on Launch Base,,, but every time I would try and go in and out of debug mode and go into the building it would get me stuck, spit me out, or I would fall and die (and couldnt control debug mode to prevent death) Im not sure if theres a super pinpoint spot you need to do? I tried for an hour and nothing lol. I only recently found your page wish I found it sooner, love your videos especially the fun ones
Yeah sorry about the S3C 0408 Knuckles ending video. I was messing around at the start and forgot to edit it out. Big Arms was edited to appear in the layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ahhh so you like hacked him into it? I was curious so I looked around the sonic pages and i think it was sonic retro that said in hidden content that Big Arms wasn't in that version BUT he was in the data still. I didnt realize that till I tried it out a bit haha. Thats amazing that you can do that though! I wish i knew how to do that stuff! Its not that I dont have the free time, i just have a lot of health issues so I rarely feel good enough to seriously play games let alone learn how to like make my own rom hacks or edits. Im like HMM can I hire this Silver Sonic guy to teach me? Lol. Appreciate your replies by the way!
Is it possible to mod the pc verdion to be like the prototype? Since the pc release is the closest we have to a full working prototype release. Maybe add the missing sprites, swap the level order and sprites? Although easier said than done.
I was playing this modified ROM, and i noticed that the tubes don’t have any collision, so that means at one point you would’ve possibly been able to go inside them.
Hey there, fellow TH-camr looking to make a documentary video in a couple months. Is there anyway you could relink the edited rom? It's no longer available. Credit will of course go to you, I'd just like to get my own footage :) Thanks!
I remember that wen I was like 11 I some how downloaded the beta intro and the flying battery save state then got the sonic 2 sprites and some how glitch the game out
![Sonic R LOST BITS | Prototypes & Unused Content [TetraBitGaming]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rEaJTJf7auY/mqdefault.jpg)
This gives me hope that we'll find that one Mega Man X prototype someday.
What is this prototype you're talking about?
Care to elaborate?
I want to see that White City clearly so much.
Look up Mega Man X White City. It's a different version of the intro stage with an almost completely different style of futuristic setting. It seems to have some unnused enemies and maybe some unique events. Also, the angle is completely sideways like the NES Mega Man games rather than the perspective we got in the final game.
@@blackpants7385 The whole what XX and XY thing or something too. I think the story was in gamepro or something? And nintendo power posting screenshots of white city back in the day as a preview too.
I like how the HUD text has a demonic red hue. Also that beta lava reef theme sounds lit.
The HUD text is red because the enemy palette is blank, save for a red color that occupies the space where white would usually be. And yes, that prototype music is good.
The prototype track sounds more like the version from the "Sonic & Knuckles+Sonic the Hedgehog 3" album
An album which includes the tracks shared between s3 and s&k
And all the zone tracks of s&k
@@DawidO-mg8zn funny how you mentioned the OST album, as I am trying to replicate some of those songs in the Genesis format. Here's my somewhat exact replica of Lava Reef's OST version: th-cam.com/video/eZnLIMo3UdM/w-d-xo.html
One day we’ll find the Sonic 1 prototype.
It’ll just take some time.
@Jiggolo! really hope we do get lucky
Meanwhile in 2021. person 1: is that the sonic 1 1990 prototype . person 2: it is!!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone can do it its hidden palice
@@YimYum911 Holy fuck you predicted the year it was found
Also yes. We found the Sonic 1 prototype.
3:25 *This Is Fine*
Very fine indeed.
Face melts off( this is still fine)
It may be unfinished, but I love this Lava Reef’s color palette. It looks better than what we got.
Dragonfruits uwu I disagree
Kinda reminds me of the Mania Encore Mode palette
Dragonfruits uwu no, not really. This is a lot kore white, and the one we got is more brown and fits the fact that its literally around lava. Plus it looks more colorful in the final too.
Dragonfruits uwu kinda looks like an Encore palette
This looks pretty bad though
I do like the look of this version. It's more mechanical, and fits in with the games theme more with the Death Egg ect.
Hopefully one day a version with s&k zones will be released.
At first, it seemed like getting a single prototype of Sonic 3 would be impossible, but then we got this. Now people are considering the possibility of even more prototypes! There could still be more S&K data to recover, at least Lava Reef Act 2, and possibly some Mushroom Valley.
It's just tinted blue, I don't see that much of a difference.
@Phillip Bell There's actually quite a notable difference, especially when compared to the final version. The pipes are completely different, the distant background is altered, the Death Egg is very different, some of the rocks are different, the indoor backdrop is completely different, the lava is different. I could go on for a while.
@@SilverSonic1992 why is it impossible?just asking cos I just started playing sonic 3. I finally found an emulator
It was thought to be almost impossible to get a hold of this prototype considering how secretive Sega was regarding the development of Sonic 3. Everything was kept under tight security and supervision and few magazines were given access to prerelease material. This particular prototype comes from a magazine in the UK that was backed by Sega of Europe, and thus was allowed to have the EPROMS.
That beta LRZ is definitely pretty interesting.
I wonder if someone will be able to find a prototype of the 1st version of Sonic 3,although that might be a difficult task like finding that famous Sonic 1 prototype.
Пчёлик Жужу Yeah,that really sucks.
I guess we can only hope for a miracle to happen.
@Пчёлик Жужу they only lost the tts build, it may be possible (somewhat) for later builds to come up (from ces and onwards)
@C0metIsBack they didnt
@C0metIsBack Your Comment Aged So Poorly
@@necksweateronion6954 hmmmmm
Awesome video. Man, a level just looks plum naked without its springs, spikes, floating platforms and badniks.
If you look at the roof of the background you can see tge Death Egg sometimes. It looks like it uses a different sprite compared to the final version. In this one the Death Egg is upside down but in the final it is facing down as if it were turned 90 degrees clockwise. hope that made sense
It has red blinking eyes that goes along with the background of this game why do you think it was change?
I heard someone say that it was probably too creepy and ask me that does the death egg and this mock up look scary to you
@@pleasecallmedaviddjs1298
Mock Up? It’s not a mock up, It’s real.
I'm curious to see if the level was in the process of being removed and put in Sonic & Knuckles, or if it was severely unfinished
I imagine this build was from when they were starting to remove the sonic and knuckles zones, but this level data may be from when it was still one game
I'm not sure. The level is unfinished, but only in the lack objects. Both acts have full layouts completed, and the parallax and palette cycles are all working at this point.
What is a parallax?
The parallax is part of the scrolling background effects. You know how the background is layered to give the perception of depth? That's the parallax scrolling effect.
Do we actually know how sandopolis, hidden palace sky sanctuary and death egg may have looked at this point in development (but death egg has a collision change object in act 2)
It’s the relative completeness of this level that makes me think that if Sonic & Knuckles weren’t to exist that Lava Reef would have likely made it into Sonic 3.
Probably the same with MVZ and possibly FBZ, too.
I suspect that in such an alternate reality that Lava Reef would have been a mid-game level, maybe one or two levels before Launch Base.
Flying Battery was first planned to be put after carnival night zone and we use the metal door we knock off in flying battery as a snowboard in ice cap zone so yes FBZ would 100% be in Sonic 3 if what you said would happen
This definetly looks more complete than Flying Battery, which is quite baffling
@@TheGael95
FBZ is in the process of moving to s&k, obviously, and LRZ is just leftover data that the developers forgot to delete at the time of this prototype
@@TheGael95
Game developers prioritize different when working on it. They don’t always go in order.
2:17 Tails Exe has stop working
Death Egg looks different in background.
Looks a little creepy, doesn't it?
@@SilverSonic1992 DEATH EGG.EXE
IT WAS A NORMAL DAY...
@@Convoy143 ...the day I went to GameStop and bought a copy of Sonic 3. When I turned on my Sega Genesis...
The Super Videogame Nerd MORE ...Sonic appeared straight away without a Sega splash screen. He was just... there.
@@Zecolarii ...when I tried to move Sonic to the right, there was nothing, no enemies, rings, or even trees. Just a straight grassy line. After running for a while, I encountered the sign post, but when I touched it...
1:40 i love how oblivious Tails is
Now this is a prototype. XD
Tails literally said 🏃💨
5:49
I noticed something else when playing this zone, and it's that collision is worse in areas around those yellow pipe things or where they touch the surface. I even found an area where you can walk into one and maneuver around inside of it to get to a lower part of the stage, but there's still collision on the rocks surrounding it. Maybe these pipes were meant to be transport tubes, sort of like the ones in Act 2 and Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2.
The collision here is not representative of the level at all. It's taken from Sonic 3C 0408, a much later prototype where Lava Reef was almost finalized. The original collision could not be recovered from the ROM.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ah, okay.
Now this is epic
I'm glad you have this prototype and you can now make videos of it.I always notice you find little miniscules of information nobody else finds that's actually interesting.Would you mind making a video on all the musical differences and comparisons to the pc versions and original genesis versions?I worded that pretty badly but I'm sure you understood
There's already videos of that.
Well, like Bloxy said, other people have already done that and probably have done a good job at it. Sonic Chaos was an exception because there weren't perfect rips at the time because it isn't as popular.
@@blooga3941 would you send a link?
Im sure you'll find a video on it by searching it up.
@@corpsemachine6949 th-cam.com/video/_bp_c73awuQ/w-d-xo.html
All proto music, the cutting room floor will have a ton of info, so go check that out too.
Sonic has become very powerful and muscular and I am so proud of him.
?
Well...that was impressive
Omg that demo beat is 🔥 🔥 🔥.
More bass!
i have a sneaking suspicion that this is not launch base zone
What do you mean? This is clearly launch base
Don't you see the death egg in the background?
1:42 Bye Tails, finally I got rid of him now I can … 1:49 Oh no he’s back.
7:28 death egg
WOW!
*NICE GRAPHICS!*
Thank you for your content!
Apparently part of the source code of a Star Trek videogame was trapped inside the cartridge. That's odd.
. JJ1013 frequently dev cartridges were EEPROMS that could be overwritten as dev went on. The thing is if your cartridge was bigger than your game you wouldn’t bother with a full write, you’d just write your game and not touch the rest of the cart thus bits of whatever was on there before would be left.
Looking at sonic's looping hanging animation makes me wonder if they initially wanted to have phyiscs-based animation code in the final game for when sonic is hanging from tails (i.e. having sonic's hanging sprite change based on tails' horizontal momentum). There's like, what, 7 frames total in that animation??
Maybe.
I have this proto. MVZ has object data. i checked
MVZ?
@@thesupervideogamenerdmore3171
Mushroom Valley Zone.
@thesupervideogamenerdmore3171 MVZ is Mushroom Valley Zone early name of Mushroom Hill Zone
someone tried lock on the prototype on final s3k ?
You get Blue Spheres. S3&K was designed to work with only with the final Sonic 3, and it expects the data to be at specific offsets in order to work.
@@SilverSonic1992 you get blue spheres literally and metaphorically
@Silver Sonic 1992
thanks for saving me hours of time just to find out it wouldn't work
@@SilverSonic1992 What if theres a way to hack it to make the Sonic & Knuckles rom to think the S3 prototype is the final release?
@@helmetluigi Although I don't exactly know how it works, theres many factors which means it probably wouldn't work. :(
Hello Chainspike/Silver Sonic 1992, I want to tell you that an older copy of the universal voice bank has been found inside of the Competition Menu's track. What happens if we apply it to all other tracks? We might probably never know... or will we?
Also, there happens to be leftover data for the competition levels from earlier builds! Azure Lake, Balloon Park and Desert Palace's leftovers seem complete for the most part, whereas Chrome Gadget and Endless Mine's art is gone due to being below the cutoff regions. Also leftover from earlier builds are 2 palette tables. Also in the leftovers, there are irrelevant pieces of Star Trek data near the Sonic 3 sound driver, which might be the result of burning and compiling EPROM chips. A similar situation occured in the Sonic 2 Nick Arcade and Simon Wai prototypes. (In Nick Arcade's case, it was Kid Chameleon's compression, which is used for Green Hill's chunks, and in Simon Wai's case, they were leftover graphics from an unknown Chiki Chiki Boys prototype.)
I would like to cover some of this stuff at some point in the future.
Try it
Glitch reef zone
Interesting how the lava and certain other portions don’t work in this prototype.
Its obvious that nothing will work since its data was completely obliterated and the data was taken from S3C
@@pixelfoxshouseOr it wasn't ready yet
@@Dan-379 maybe. i just realized this was 1 year ago.
I really like the gray rocks.
What would happen if a save state of finished Lava Reef was loaded into this prototype?
It will Probably crash
Can you do Mushroom Valley next?
Mushroom Valley unfortunately had its data cutoff. However, with the combination of the intact data + S3C 0408 data it may be possible to work something out!
The stream briefly showed it
drx stated during the stream that he showed Mushroom Valley by accident and that it was just something he was working on.
@@SilverSonic1992 Is it actually possible to restore MVZ with only object layout or there is just too much data cut off?
@@Dan-379 Visually, all we have is an object layout and palette so no, it is sadly not possible to restore.
6:38 Pause and carefully look around the background, Death Egg is here.
I like how hard hits lava reef prototype music like prototype aquatic ruun
Sonics jump at 2:24 has crippling depression.
The color palette looks like it would fit on a mountain
Level Select: Sandopolis
Title Cards: Launch Base
Reality: Lava Reef
WHY DO I LIKE THIS PALLETTE???
Lava reef prototype: 1:35
it wasn't in Sonic 3's level select, so I'll gather it was very early in development still. the white rocks (which could be palette swapped orange/blue later) and the lava that doesn't hurt you and I think that one ramp thing that doesn't work tells me it was just a mere tech demo for the graphical assets. seems to be the recurring theme with these prototypes, lots of the playable functionality is missing from all of them and they're not worth playing as games. the historic element of them is really cool though.
The reason it does not appear in the level select is because it's from a different version of the game. Lava Reef (and other S&K zones) was only playable in Sonic 3C builds of the game, while the prototype we have is Sonic 3A using data that was restored.
@@SilverSonic1992 that's roughly what I said lol. 3C came after Sonic 3 retail, I'm saying it wasn't in any playable state when they released Sonic 3 in Feb 1994 is what I'm deducing. the proto one wasn't close to being functional or playable/accessible without debug mode. all the prototypes were missing a lot, that's why I say they were tech demos for internal use at Sega. I'm agreeing with you, not arguing.
@@mecha2001 Well, Sonic 3C was always the original unsplit version of Sonic 3. It was the master source version and Sonic 3A and Sonic 3B (Sonic & Knuckles) were simply split modifications of that. The prototypes we have of it are much later, but it always existed. I wouldn't say that Lava Reef was a "tech demo", but rather that was more or less the state that the level was in before focus had shifted to get the Sonic 3 half done in time. Keep in mind, we don't have all the data relating to Lava Reef either. The collision wasn't possible to restore and perhaps the same was even true of the object layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 (total word salad/text wall because I want to get this all out) yeah I think they just kind of stopped trying to have Sonic & Knuckles integrated into Sonic 3 and just went with trying to get Sonic 3 out. my point about Sonic 3 stage select omitting Lava Reef, Death Egg, and Doomsday... all 3 of those zones were incomplete and unplayable in the 3C prototype, I don't think that's a coincidence, I just don't think they got that far yet when Sonic 3 final came out. Flying Battery I think (been looking at too much TCRF) was intact in Sonic 3A (either final or proto or both, help me) but obviously very incomplete. Launch Base was apparently always intended to be the middle, and Flying Battery's progress being behind/needing another zone for Knuckles is why that got moved. my point about the tech demo thing, there's no Giant Rings/Chaos Emeralds or Super Sonic in the prototype, it's not in any kind of finished state, it's cool it exists but it's not what I would consider a playable game. going back to 3C/Limited Edition, Sega made the right choice not releasing Limited Edition, I think they got more bang for the buck having the Knuckles Sonic 2 option with the Lock-On game. it's incredible how deep of discussion can be had about this.
@@mecha2001 The earliest Sonic 3C prototype we have (April 4th, 1994) has all of the Sonic & Knuckles in a near-complete or playable state, aside from The Doomsday Zone. Flying Battery Zone was intact in this prototype, and still has some leftover data in the final version of Sonic 3A. Like you said, it was behind schedule and it actually is the most unfinished S&K level in Sonic 3C 0408 (aside from Doomsday). Another interesting thing about Sonic 3C/Limited Edition is that they did actually plan to release it in Japan as the original version of Sonic 3, but ultimately, time ran out again and they eventually released Sonic 3A months after everyone else received it.
Oh, I see what you meant about the tech demo. Yeah, these prototypes were primarily for internal testing and were never meant to be seen by the public (aside from a few screens in the case of this one).
I love this song
Mostly manias version of this song
Keep in mind, this is the prototype version of the track which sounds more unfinished.
Oh ok but the one from Sonic mania sounds the best in my opinion
It looks so ominous without any badniks
Didn’t Lava Reef Zone 1 have a few other alternate layouts? TCRF mentions there being 6 full maps and 2 fragmented maps of LRZ1, and this only seems to show one of them off. Will the others be shown someday?
The other maps are identical to the one shown here.
4:18 the blocks you skim across here are very similar to Ice Cap Zone, do you know if they are present elsewhere in the prototype?
That is the only section of the layout that they appear in. This section still exists in the final, although with different visuals and the addition of rising lava.
@@SilverSonic1992 hmm I don't recall. A playthrough awaits 🙂
There is azure lake zone sprites at the beginning
How can I enter lava reef? What I've seen is using an even code, I tried one that I found in
sonic retro but it doesn't work for me.
Check the hidden palace discord discordapp.com/invite/RG723tU go to research tab and check the pinned comment it has restored Lava Reef rom
@@randomcommentog Thanks.
Collison Reef Zone lol
wouldn't radical soda like this?
This likes a leaf maze zone
That's what Lava Reef looks like before being restored.
Wonder what other zones can be restored in this prototype...
The grey and orange contrast better than the final
What emulator you using? Cuz the fps counter doesn't look like it was from fusion364
Gens Re-recording
2:18 PSG Sound Getted Bad?
Bad PSG Sounds?
@@phauloriquelme2657it happens because its a unfinished version, that is just tails
I don't get how Sonic 3 & Knuckles in full is 4mb. Like it should be 3, in early 1994 nobody was producing 32 megabit cartridges, 24 was the new. By late 94 and most of 95 32megs became common but I really don't think Sonic 3 is 32 megs. Maybe if you add on the sonic 2 data chip and blue sphere the Sonic 3 & Knuckles together would technically be 4mb but I'm pretty sure it's 3mb. I once saw this really long post about why it's not as big as ads said and most people that I'm aware of since these were first leaked said it was supposed to be a 24 megabit cartridge, which makes sense.
This isn't graphically stunning like DKC, Terranigma, Secret of Mana 2. If Sonic 3 alone was 16 megabits, Sonic & Knuckles should've only been 8. But who knows, maybe the extra little things that are only present when connected got it to be a few more megabits, I'm pretty sure the 32 (even 34 was advertised) has been debunked.
If you've ever seen a ROM file of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, it will be 4MB, which is 32 megabits. The advertised 34 megabits is because Sonic & Knuckles also includes a 256KB or 2 megabit ROM for Knuckles in Sonic 2.
The original plan before the split was to apparently release the game on one 24 megabit cartridge. That is at least what magazines printed at the time. Sonic & Knuckles has to include a ton of redundant data as most of the code in the Sonic 3 cartridge is unusable due to hard coded addressing (everything gets shifted by 2MB when locked on to Sonic & Knuckles).
Leaf Limbo Zone
How to enable debug in this prototype
Up, Up, Down, Down, Up, Up at the title screen.
@@TheStormsChannel thank you very much
You can also play sounds, 01, 03, 05, and 07 in the sound test.
@@SilverSonic1992 okay, thanks
@Katherine Johnson I'm using a action replay code and it works fine
Ive been asking all over, can anyone PLEASE help Does anyone know how I can test out the maps not selectable? Mushroom and Sandopolis are in the menu but do nothing. Ive tried finding game genie codes but, the only ones I found are for a 'mushroom valley and lava reef act 1 decompression' on sonicretro and cant get to those levels to try them :/
Oh. Did you see the codes here? tcrf.net/Proto:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3#Level_Select
@@SilverSonic1992 Oh no wayyy!!! Thank you, I had been freaking out I tried using the normal sonic 3 game genie codes and they weren't doing a thing... I was like uhh wait. I really appreciate it, Initially when these came out, I saw the videos so many times that I never really cared to try and go through it all myself... I played through the prototypes normal levels some, but I was sitting here like HMMM Im bored lets do it. I also tried getting the thing to work in your other video,,, the knuckles possible prototype ending on Launch Base,,, but every time I would try and go in and out of debug mode and go into the building it would get me stuck, spit me out, or I would fall and die (and couldnt control debug mode to prevent death) Im not sure if theres a super pinpoint spot you need to do? I tried for an hour and nothing lol. I only recently found your page wish I found it sooner, love your videos especially the fun ones
Yeah sorry about the S3C 0408 Knuckles ending video. I was messing around at the start and forgot to edit it out. Big Arms was edited to appear in the layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ahhh so you like hacked him into it? I was curious so I looked around the sonic pages and i think it was sonic retro that said in hidden content that Big Arms wasn't in that version BUT he was in the data still. I didnt realize that till I tried it out a bit haha. Thats amazing that you can do that though! I wish i knew how to do that stuff! Its not that I dont have the free time, i just have a lot of health issues so I rarely feel good enough to seriously play games let alone learn how to like make my own rom hacks or edits. Im like HMM can I hire this Silver Sonic guy to teach me? Lol. Appreciate your replies by the way!
No problem!
It looks much better with the grey rocks. The orange blocks of the final lava reef are vomit inducing
do sandopolis zone restore in s3 prototype
they can't really do that since barely any data for sandopolis exists
:sadbambi:
Is it possible to mod the pc verdion to be like the prototype?
Since the pc release is the closest we have to a full working prototype release. Maybe add the missing sprites, swap the level order and sprites?
Although easier said than done.
I was playing this modified ROM, and i noticed that the tubes don’t have any collision, so that means at one point you would’ve possibly been able to go inside them.
The collision here is incorrect. It wasn't possible to restore.
Yeah this has to be October or earlier, because the final US build is dated 11-20-93
You'd be surprised what Sega can pull off in 17 days, but yeah it's probably from October.
@@SilverSonic1992 Yeah. I'm sure they probably had the MJ stuff recorded, but were waiting to get his final approval.
Lava Reef Zone *Past*
It’s azure lake tiles...
2:17 broken sound driver
This reminds me of NES Version of Sonic the hedgehog
What happens if you try to lock-on a prototype Sonic 3 with Sonic & Knuckles?
@Jake P It was built off of sonic 2 though.
How do you access the zone on the edited rom?
Select Sandopolis Act 1.
Hey there, fellow TH-camr looking to make a documentary video in a couple months.
Is there anyway you could relink the edited rom? It's no longer available. Credit will of course go to you, I'd just like to get my own footage :) Thanks!
tcrf.net/File:Sonic_3_(Nov_3,_1993_prototype_-_LRZ1_restored).bin
Credit goes to drx for the restoration ROM.
How do you get to LRZ? I used the RAM codes and I can’t seem to get it to work.
You need to edit the ROM, because the Lava Reef Zone act 1 data is almost at the very end of the ROM
We need a big Sega hack like the Nintendo hack
Hidden Badniks?
0:18 it's not lava reef zone its launch base zone
😐
L a v a r e e f i s L a u n c h b a s e z o n e
I remember that wen I was like 11 I some how downloaded the beta intro and the flying battery save state then got the sonic 2 sprites and some how glitch the game out
How is debug mode activated?
Lava Reef Zone Is Fixed?
*Everybody gangsta till debug Sonic uses blood ring*
Seriously tho. Why is 2 Sonic & Tails on this Prototype?
Placeholders until the final sprites were drawn/animated. It happens quite a bit in game dev.
@@Peannlui Oh boy.
Wait...
How did you get debug mode?
Play sounds 01, 03, 05, and 07 in the soundest. You will know that it worked whenever you hear a ring sound.
Gastrointestinal Zone huh?
If that's what you prefer. . .
Not going to lie, I really wish that they used the Sonic 2 Sonic sprite instead of the one they ended up using for Sonic 3.
It really didn't match Sonic 3's new art style. That being said, I like both designs.
But the best one was Sonic 1 in my opinion
Wait a second lava reef zone is using graphics from another game
It is?
Yes
@@ajanizuniga8297 What game?
I have no idea
But the graphics look similar
How can do that?
Debug?
what is te code
What's code?
Xxxxxx:xxxx?
J
J
Que al pedo que estas eh
¿Que te he hecho?