Getting a hold of this piece of history is exciting, yet it's depressing we may never get something that predates it and doubly so that Sega didn't allow screeenshots of anything older.
@@seyvend Read how Sonic 3 was handled when it came to previews. The person responsible for almost all of these proto acquisitions, drx, gets them mainly by having contacts with those who could've been handed a prototype for press or event purposes. They sometimes keep prerelease builds. Assuming Sega even archived WIP S3 material it would be next to impossible to get it from them or even an ex employee. Not that I'm ruling it out, but you have to be realistic.
@@protocetid of Sonic 1, it is currently unknown where the prototype might have been showed on, so maybe it was in a event. Of Sonic 3 never been showed up, thats not entirely true, because Sonic 3 has a recorded demo for an earlier version of the game, that means that an earlier version of this rom was showed up somewhere, because this happened with the Nick Arcade prototype.
I'm curious as to why the final version of Sonic 3 has the final versions of the Sonic & Knuckles music, seeing as these levels were cut when the music was in such an incomplete state
Good question. We really don't know for sure, but we can guess. Sonic 3 and S3C were likely both the same project, and so Sonic 3 was simply a cutdown version of S3C. This was done so that Sonic 3 would be finished in time for a February release. This means that music for the S&K levels still would have been updated since S3 was just part of the complete project.
Standalone Sonic 3's version of Flying Battery Zone Act 1's echo goes slightly out of sync when it loops, and it's actually the one used in Sonic Origins for some reason.
Wow, this is really cool! Do you think any garbage data exists for Act 3 (aka the boss area)? I doubt much would've changed there though. Thanks for the work!
Hey! I know how to access mushrom valley song! 1. Go to the hydrocity with debug mode 2. Jump in the water and turn into super sonic with monitor 3. When drowning song starts turn on debug menu 4. Ta daa!
Mushroom Valley has an object layout, a palette, and a miniboss. I'm working on trying to create a custom layout based on the 0408 layout to create a working layout that fits with the objects. This will be unofficial, of course. As for Sandopolis, the only thing that seems to be left is a miniboss and a custom start location, even though there's no proof of a layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 I have only been watching this channel for a few days, found it cause youtube recommended it. But maybe some layouts and other stuff may be hidden in sonic and knuckles that may have been moved to that cart when the games split?
The Sonic 2 sprites clash with Sonic 3's new graphic style. Sega also said that Sonic's sprites were supposed to look more 3D and be more accurate to the official design.
Is it possible to put the original prototype tracks into the Sonic 3 Complete mod? It has Genesis copositions of the PC tracks as a seperate music option, but now that we have the real versions of the tracks, I think we can replace them. I would like to do this myself, but i lack the know-how for this kind of stuff.
Is it possible? Of course. But is it going to be practical to try it without a disassembly? Not really. S3 Complete is a highly modified version of S3&K and so that would require a lot of work. I also don't how the developers would feel about someone releasing modifications of their hack without permission.
I... kind of like this version of the music BETTER, if I'm being honest. Especially the part that can be heard at 1:04 - 1:12 where one of those ending notes is missing. For some reason it gives me a slightly more "mystical and mysterious" vibe. I don't know why. EDIT: I am an idiot. It's the same as the final. 😂🤣
Somehow never saw this act 2 one before! I know that the website with all the prototype stuff shows the layouts that woulda been in this game if they werent scrambled... It makes me think HMM,, did Sega just switch around all of the & Knuckles data to make it unplayable before releasing Sonic 3? Just an idea but it seems like from looking at all the prototypes and final releases, thats the case. Take Sonic 2 for example... in the betas you could still play the unfinished Hidden Palace Zone, but in the final Sonic 2 version, it was scrambled,,, im no expert but that seems like they just scrambled all of the sprites and background data and collision and stuff as a quick but effective way to render the map unplayable in the finale. So if thats true then shouldnt it be possible for coders to put that stuff together for all of those levels? At least we have the concepts either way, but it would be cool to see them all in their 'official forms' It makes me think hmm, doesnt Sega see all the attention their prototypes and betas get? Yet they still wont even release a remake of Sonic 3 (even though we now know they have non MJ music they can use) If they wanted to, they could make a whole game called Sonic Betas with new takes on beta versions of the games playable in their full form with all types of different sprites, concepts, and layouts not seen in the final games!
It would be possible to restore all these levels, but obviously they wouldn't be the prototype versions. For instance, here the final (edited) color palette and final graphics had to be used to "restore" the level. Had this been able to be restored fully, we would've seen an earlier design for LRZ2 much like Act 1.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ahhh I think I get what youre saying, I still dont fully understand all of it but I get some of them there just is no way to do it without using the stuff from the final game to piece it together
PushSonyaDeville Yeah that's it. Another thing that's interesting is that Lava Reef shares some base graphics between acts in the final game. This however, doesn't actually work with the color palette in the prototype so it is likely Act 2 had a much different design.
@@SilverSonic1992 Thats pretty cool to imagine what it coulda been, maybe more similar to the colors in Hidden Palace Zone since thats really just an extention of Lava Reef 2? Ive been trying to learn how to use the sonic hacking tools but its so hard, cant seem to get anything to work lol. Downloaded some of the 'disassemblies' but trying to figure out how to actually start editing and then repackage it back into a playable rom file. There arent enough Sonic 3/Knuckles rom hacks out there!
don't place the weird flickie thing in the debug mode, it completely destroys the game until you reload it i'm speaking from experience, it just turned the entire thing into red numbers and letters.
@jackblackknuckles That wouldn't be restoring anything. That would be porting from the final. I'm not going to do that because then everyone will think Mushroom Valley is identical to Mushroom Hill.
@@MilesIsExist I'm saying that Act 1 had its graphics and layout restored from the prototype, except for the collision which couldn't be restored, so it had be taken from the Sonic 3C 0408 prototype. Since the collision is taken from a much later prototype, it doesn't match the level and is very broken. For Act 2, the only thing that could be restored is the layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 Also why does prototype use the proto knuckles sprites from angle island but the rest of the game uses the other sprites that are in the final game? (This is my last edit)
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
Getting a hold of this piece of history is exciting, yet it's depressing we may never get something that predates it and doubly so that Sega didn't allow screeenshots of anything older.
Never say never, there’s about a million different sonic 2 betas floating around now
@@seyvend Read how Sonic 3 was handled when it came to previews. The person responsible for almost all of these proto acquisitions, drx, gets them mainly by having contacts with those who could've been handed a prototype for press or event purposes. They sometimes keep prerelease builds. Assuming Sega even archived WIP S3 material it would be next to impossible to get it from them or even an ex employee. Not that I'm ruling it out, but you have to be realistic.
@@protocetid i mean, the Sonic 1 prototype that we have wasn't seen in any magazine and it was found anyways.
@@metallicwarrior It could've been used for an event. Sonic 3 prototypes were not present in expos etc.
@@protocetid of Sonic 1, it is currently unknown where the prototype might have been showed on, so maybe it was in a event.
Of Sonic 3 never been showed up, thats not entirely true, because Sonic 3 has a recorded demo for an earlier version of the game, that means that an earlier version of this rom was showed up somewhere, because this happened with the Nick Arcade prototype.
Getting a real glitches and oversights vibe from this.
ORKAL 2.0
@@DJNeoncat that name takes me back
Rip orkal...
aww, orkal...
@@dededethesuperstarwarrior What did he becomes? Hope he's well and won't lose their channel.
It's kind of cool how there is more Sonic and Knuckles leftovers in this prototype compared to the final
Level select: sandopolis
Title card: launch base
Level: lava reef
Game: that makes sense
Wow! You guys in the beta community are really skilled and surprising to me. Thank you for all your hard work Silver Sonic!
One thing for sure is that the music is damm amazing
TCRF should see this.
Technically they already have. They own the Hidden Palace website.
Niko!
i think they have
Omg, you making me happier every video (i love secrets that were scraped they are so mysterious :] )
I'm curious as to why the final version of Sonic 3 has the final versions of the Sonic & Knuckles music, seeing as these levels were cut when the music was in such an incomplete state
Good question. We really don't know for sure, but we can guess. Sonic 3 and S3C were likely both the same project, and so Sonic 3 was simply a cutdown version of S3C. This was done so that Sonic 3 would be finished in time for a February release. This means that music for the S&K levels still would have been updated since S3 was just part of the complete project.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ah, that's a interesting thought actually.. that explains quite a bit when it comes to leftovers in S3
Standalone Sonic 3's version of Flying Battery Zone Act 1's echo goes slightly out of sync when it loops, and it's actually the one used in Sonic Origins for some reason.
That one dislike was tails cause he couldn't keep up.
no knuckles got removed that’s why
The pallate need to be in sonic 3 air cuase a mod like that would complate my life
And layout
Congrats on 1K!
amazing!
I mean, at least it works! ...right?
Wow, this is really cool! Do you think any garbage data exists for Act 3 (aka the boss area)? I doubt much would've changed there though. Thanks for the work!
They seem to have had the idea for the boss act, considering the pit is already here. No data seems to exist for it however other than an empty level.
Does data for the boss also exist in some form or another.
Cinnamonbun 4351 No boss for Lava Reef is known to exist.
@@SilverSonic1992 *boss data
You are the most epic guy in this world
Wow. Thank you!
@@SilverSonic1992 yw
Also on a diff account I made this vid m.th-cam.com/video/9kr7gpCYZcU/w-d-xo.html
Hey! I know how to access mushrom valley song! 1. Go to the hydrocity with debug mode 2. Jump in the water and turn into super sonic with monitor 3. When drowning song starts turn on debug menu 4. Ta daa!
Yes, that works lol
i did that before i seen this comment but how does that actually happen?
Wow increible espero mas de eso!
I'm predicting videos of “Every Copy of Sonic 3&K is Personalized” with this phase.
(And we need show this to Lost Bits. )
U mean TetraBitGaming Right?
@@Isaiahdemon yes
(Update; I Think that he already knows)
I love how you act out the knuckles cutscene!!!
0:57 I think this is where those unused floating platforms from Act 1 would’ve been used.
I agree.
You should show off Mushroom Hill with the beta palette. all that's been seen so far is a screenshot on the cutting room floor.
I could do that, but I wanted to restore Mushroom Valley to a playable state which would be more than just a color palette.
@@SilverSonic1992 did you ever do it?
@@blackstar_painstar It isn't possible. Most of the data is gone.
@@SilverSonic1992 oof
@@SilverSonic1992Just import collision and graphics from Sonic 3c 0408 prototypy and create a custom maps for act 1 and 2
Dude too cool.
Don't worry. We'll find Mushroom Valley, Sandopolis, Hidden Palace , and Sky Sanctuary soon.
silver: enter sandopolis
title card: launch base
map: *L A V A R E E F*
Is it possible to restore Mushroom Valley and Sandopolis Zone too?
Mushroom Valley has an object layout, a palette, and a miniboss. I'm working on trying to create a custom layout based on the 0408 layout to create a working layout that fits with the objects. This will be unofficial, of course. As for Sandopolis, the only thing that seems to be left is a miniboss and a custom start location, even though there's no proof of a layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 I have only been watching this channel for a few days, found it cause youtube recommended it. But maybe some layouts and other stuff may be hidden in sonic and knuckles that may have been moved to that cart when the games split?
I hardly know anything about this business, so don't expect me to get a ton of things right.
Yes please. I would love have those restored as they are unselectable.
@Meepster It would have been moved to S&K later on, but there it's already the final data.
Why did Sega decide to change Sonic's sprites to what it was in the final version?
The Sonic 2 sprites clash with Sonic 3's new graphic style. Sega also said that Sonic's sprites were supposed to look more 3D and be more accurate to the official design.
@@SilverSonic1992 ohhhhh well I always thought Sonic's fists were a little big but I started to like the design later on
@Boopergoober Hoomanstoniganiton I like both designs. The Sonic 2 sprites look nice with the Sonic 3 color palette.
I prefer the s3 sprites imo
@@tl1882 same
Lava Reef Zone. Version 0.263.22.6
Get this LAVA out of my REEF!
Mud reef zone
Is it possible to put the original prototype tracks into the Sonic 3 Complete mod? It has Genesis copositions of the PC tracks as a seperate music option, but now that we have the real versions of the tracks, I think we can replace them. I would like to do this myself, but i lack the know-how for this kind of stuff.
Is it possible? Of course. But is it going to be practical to try it without a disassembly? Not really. S3 Complete is a highly modified version of S3&K and so that would require a lot of work. I also don't how the developers would feel about someone releasing modifications of their hack without permission.
@@SilverSonic1992 How can I do it?
I think it would be cool if someone edited the level/act/layout and probably make a playable version :')
Proto Knuckles theme jumpscare
How are these prototypes discovered?! This feels impossible to discover such prototypes.
That means you will work on the development of Sonic 3 Part 2 Delta, isn't?
By the way, Sonic 3 Part 2 was the original name of Sonic & Knuckles
I... kind of like this version of the music BETTER, if I'm being honest. Especially the part that can be heard at 1:04 - 1:12 where one of those ending notes is missing. For some reason it gives me a slightly more "mystical and mysterious" vibe. I don't know why.
EDIT: I am an idiot. It's the same as the final. 😂🤣
I'm pretty sure the ending note is always missing on the last section.
@@SilverSonic1992 Oh. Hmm, I thought there was an extra one. Hang on, let me check, even though you're probably right.
@@SilverSonic1992 Oh yea, nope I'm an idiot. 😂🤣 Maybe it's just the instruments or something that's giving me that more "mystical" vibe.
@@GMaster4308 I agree there. The prototype instruments do make it sound more mystical.
@@SilverSonic1992 Yeah.
Somehow never saw this act 2 one before! I know that the website with all the prototype stuff shows the layouts that woulda been in this game if they werent scrambled... It makes me think HMM,, did Sega just switch around all of the & Knuckles data to make it unplayable before releasing Sonic 3? Just an idea but it seems like from looking at all the prototypes and final releases, thats the case. Take Sonic 2 for example... in the betas you could still play the unfinished Hidden Palace Zone, but in the final Sonic 2 version, it was scrambled,,, im no expert but that seems like they just scrambled all of the sprites and background data and collision and stuff as a quick but effective way to render the map unplayable in the finale. So if thats true then shouldnt it be possible for coders to put that stuff together for all of those levels? At least we have the concepts either way, but it would be cool to see them all in their 'official forms' It makes me think hmm, doesnt Sega see all the attention their prototypes and betas get? Yet they still wont even release a remake of Sonic 3 (even though we now know they have non MJ music they can use) If they wanted to, they could make a whole game called Sonic Betas with new takes on beta versions of the games playable in their full form with all types of different sprites, concepts, and layouts not seen in the final games!
It would be possible to restore all these levels, but obviously they wouldn't be the prototype versions. For instance, here the final (edited) color palette and final graphics had to be used to "restore" the level. Had this been able to be restored fully, we would've seen an earlier design for LRZ2 much like Act 1.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ahhh I think I get what youre saying, I still dont fully understand all of it but I get some of them there just is no way to do it without using the stuff from the final game to piece it together
PushSonyaDeville Yeah that's it. Another thing that's interesting is that Lava Reef shares some base graphics between acts in the final game. This however, doesn't actually work with the color palette in the prototype so it is likely Act 2 had a much different design.
@@SilverSonic1992 Thats pretty cool to imagine what it coulda been, maybe more similar to the colors in Hidden Palace Zone since thats really just an extention of Lava Reef 2? Ive been trying to learn how to use the sonic hacking tools but its so hard, cant seem to get anything to work lol. Downloaded some of the 'disassemblies' but trying to figure out how to actually start editing and then repackage it back into a playable rom file. There arent enough Sonic 3/Knuckles rom hacks out there!
Hacking is a learning curve, but trust me, it will all start to make sense eventually. If you have any specific problems, I could try helping you.
don't place the weird flickie thing in the debug mode, it completely destroys the game until you reload it
i'm speaking from experience, it just turned the entire thing into red numbers and letters.
4:05 Knuckles is Static?
this comment said something stupid because I had no knowledge of this level previously, but I’ve known for a while now so hey cool right?
It dosen’t use the same color palette but it is called hidden palace
at the time I wrote this I had know knowledge of any of this lmfao. Since then I’ve beaten sonic 3 and knuckles with all super emeralds.
Other thing, I've downloaded the proto-palettes and the proto-music IPS from Sonic 3 Complete, what I need to do now?
I think you would need an IPS patcher.
@@SilverSonic1992 Thank you so much
By the way, It is possible do it with UniPatcher for Android?
@@IceMan-rw7jm I'm not sure, I use PC, sorry.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ok
So basically Sonic Mania Lava Reef?
Not really. These graphics are from the final version of the level. Unfortunately the prototype graphics for Lava Reef Act 2 couldn't be restored.
can you restore mushroom valley and give the link for the rom with the restored mushroom valley
Wait.
@@SilverSonic1992 ok
@@SilverSonic1992 can u give the link to mushroom valley zone
@jackblackknuckles It's not possible to restore Mushroom Valley.
@jackblackknuckles That wouldn't be restoring anything. That would be porting from the final. I'm not going to do that because then everyone will think Mushroom Valley is identical to Mushroom Hill.
Wow
I’m confused, aren’t the music tracks in the proto different from what we are hearing here?
This is an early prototype. Naturally the music was still being worked on at the time this proto was created by Sega.
Cinnamonbun 4351 my point being if this is the proto, why am I hearing regular Lava Reef 2 music?
It’s slightly different if you REALLY listen closely.
@@user-ku3sr7cl3u because only the instrumentation changed and very slightly
And in final sonic 3 all of the sonic & knuckles music is in the game
is the palette rearrangement done in code? I was trying to replace the rearranged palette with the unmodified one but I can't find it in the ROM
The rearranged palette is at $209264 in the ROM.
What are the numbers used from S3PV LRZ2 background?
Those are placeholders for the animated tile effects.
Thank you! I sub and now I know FBA1 background
How do i restore Lava Reef Zone in this prototype?
There's a ROM in the description.
1K subs, lol. Special?
Any chance Hidden Palaca data exists?
the lava reef act 2 palate is shared with hidden palace so i guess
@@Unkown-il9ozHidden Palace Zone and Lava Reef Zone have a different palette, only some colors are in both palettes
Why is the collision in LRZ2 better than LRZ1?
That's because it was ported from the final. The only thing special here is the layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 So... you’re saying that act 1’s collision doesn’t match with the layout from the final... got it
@@MilesIsExist I'm saying that Act 1 had its graphics and layout restored from the prototype, except for the collision which couldn't be restored, so it had be taken from the Sonic 3C 0408 prototype. Since the collision is taken from a much later prototype, it doesn't match the level and is very broken. For Act 2, the only thing that could be restored is the layout.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ok, thanks for clarification
@@MilesIsExist No problem.
Can You Restore Lava Reef Zone Badniks?
Not really, the graphics don't exist in the ROM anymore.
What are the numbers for on the background? 3:05
They are basically placeovers for animations.
The numbers are for the animated tiles. The distant background would have been placed there, if it was loaded in Act 2.
@@SilverSonic1992 Thanks dude
@Copper Bragaw No problem.
@@SilverSonic1992 Also why does prototype use the proto knuckles sprites from angle island but the rest of the game uses the other sprites that are in the final game? (This is my last edit)
What about the other zones?
Unfortunately, they cannot be restored.
CHOCLOATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you restore sky sanctuary, death egg and the doomsday
They can't be restored.
What is left of them
@@theweeboi9097 Little more than what is found leftover in the final version of Sonic 3. I made a video on what those leftovers look like.
How i Go to this level??
Sandopolis on the level select.
This is not Launch Base zone act 2
the link doesn't work anymore.
sooo do you hack sonic games
You could say that.
link isint working
fot edited rom
@@xebninmajsark4344 tcrf.net/File:Sonic_3_(Sonic_3_Nov_3_1993_prototype_-_LRZ2restored).bin
Please Sky Sanctuary Zone
It's not possible. The leftover data was cutoff. We would need to find a S3C version of this build to see Sky Sanctuary.
Knuckles is just like "Yo, what's up? how's it going?"