The music in Origins sounds like in Sonic 3 Complete. It's just that some notes were cut out so as not to be scorched that they stole music from a hack and not from a prototype. If you don't believe me, listen first to Sonic 3 Complete, and then immediately to Sonic Origins, you will not notice the difference. (well, except that some notes are missing) =)
@@oldsanek7242 That's probably because S3C was released before leak of the prototype, so the only known versions of these songs were PC versions - that's one more proof that whoever made "arrangements" for Origins just used PC version's MIDI files and pushed it to the game without any significant changes and it was done probably the similar way to Complete, that's why they sound kinda sameish.
is it just me or the prototype carnival night sounds better than the final? idk the sudden silence in some of the parts just make the level feel empty, while the prototype version feels lively and very cool.
Simply because Jun Senou doesn't know how to do Genesis music, he never worked on that front, only did the normal uncompressed music. Even if the melody is good, the instruments he used simply degrade the song.
@@juaneste4640 I’m pretty sure from what I’ve heard Jun may have just pulled the tracks out of an earlier prototype which is why Ice cap zone act 2 sounds nearly identical and the only new song Jun made was that New super theme which sounds like it was ripped from Sonic 4
As someone who played the PC version and therefore grew very fond of the prototype soundtracks, I was really hyped when I heard Origins was going to feature these songs. The hype was real. The disappointment afterwards was even more real.
Same, I too grew up with the pc ver. and when the proto themes dropped I thought they were the definitive experience. Sadly origins used the composition of the pc midi's :(
What. These aren't rom hacks, all of these were made officially by Sega's Sound Team amd later rearranged by Jun Senoue for Origins (supposedly, some say that the one's in Sonic Origins are actually from and even earlier build then the one's used in the Prototype uncovered in 2019). Personally, the prototype ones are the best spunding versions to me, they should've just used those versions.
@@chocov1233 Sonic 3 Complete is a fan made version of the tracks. Not official. The prototype at the end is the original version of the songs that weren’t revealed til 2019 by fans. They were filtered and ruined in the Sonic & Knuckles PC Collection that came out years ago officially. So that version is the first and only officially released version of these tracks until Origins came out.
@@chocov1233 Sonic 3 Complete was made by Sonic Retro's Tiddles, among others. It's an unofficial ROM hack of S3K that's been around for quite a while.
I personally don't mind the Prototype tracks and I can completely understand why Origins had to use them, given the numerous issues with copyright and such surrounding the original soundtrack, I just don't understand why the Origins versions are so incredibly muffled. It sounds like Jun Senoue held a pillow up against the speaker playing the Prototype tracks and that was how he "FM Makeover"d them.
Yea the mixing is terrible 😭😂. Personally i miss the original soundtraks they kut kause of kopyright and wat not.. they koulda at least mixed these inferior traKs better on origins i mean kmon it's 2022 😂
@@Izzythemaker127 I know that. Sonic 3 A.I.R is the definitive way to play it and I grew up playing this game. The thing is the prototype music was never officially part of the final release so it's not considered the original music. Aside from the S&K collection for PC, it wasn't really featured and I'm pretty sure that PC version was never a hit.
no, the tracks in S3C are terrible. and you are absolutly blind thinking the year matters, as the tracks from origin are from 1993. they PREDATE the current prototype we have.
@@ViewpointProd theyre not bad, they are very good recreations of the midi. the proto tracks are obviously better in many ways, but youre just coping and malding
The proto music is better because they had an actual Megadrive sound engineer compile the music properly with appropriate Megadrive instruments i could have had the reworked origins music any day if it was compiled and using instruments more similar to the proto versions because the sound engineers knew what they where doing.
Yup. Thing is there are many different versions of the PC sound track. MANY. I think it depended on how good ur oc was back then or something. Either way this is the first time Im hearing this redition of the PC ice Cap
@@autosaver more than 2 tho. I listened to multiple and they were all slightly different but noticable in someway. Especially marble garden looool. That one changes the most in every version
One thing a lot of people fail to mention is that Icecap Act 2 in Origins is basically a muffled version of the 1103 prototype song. I don't hear any instrument differences otherwise.
Yeah. Honestly neither versions(MJ and SEGA sound team) fit the level and should have been kept in a jar and used for a later date in... Almost any other level. Btw thanks for the new name for the MJ launch base track. I wanted to call it a morning jog, but honestly "90s exercise video" is way better.
As much as Origins' soundtrack is a muffled mess that could easily have been done way better, I am kinda glad to have access to what are clearly the tapes that the S&K Collection composers were actually working from. With those muffled frequencies, it's easy to see how they made some of the transcription errors they did- especially Launch Base 2, whose lead melody in the middle eight is virtually inaudible in the Origins tape.
one thing to mention is that the Sonic & Knuckles collection has 2 versions of the soundtrack One with the FM Synthesizer and other being General MIDI, This video seems to use general midi which has a slightly higher quality
Thank you so much, I’m learning tNice tutorials in quarantine and you made it very simple I really appreciate it, thank you for going over every little
My option on these soundtracks Prototype: Sounds incomplete but does still sound good. S&K collection: Sounds like the music was made a few years later. (Before I said for more modern hardware, but idk which console would sound like that, just something a bit more than the Genesis I guess.) S3 complete: Sounds like the music was actually completed and is my favorite. Origins: It sounds like the s&k collection music is drowning. My own mini teir list I made after this comment: 1: S3 complete 2: Prototype 3: S&K Collection 4: Sonic Origins
@@bidoofus246 fair enough. Not trying to bash you, it just feels funny to consider MIDI as modern, even back then. Compared to 1991 Genesis it would be modern. I'd still prefer the classic sound chip, personally.
Origins’ has grown on me, so I don’t crap on it too hard, it’s just a bit too muffled for my liking sometimes, mainly the drums Some of the S3 Complete tracks, I’m not a fan of, but they had only the S&KC to work with, but idk what they did to CNZ1 all in all, the 1103 Proto tracks will still sound somewhat better in my opinion, and Origins’ has sorta just grown on me despite not having played the game for the ungodly amount of bugs in it
@@geos-music-corner muffled is a perfect descriptor. I used to like the S3Complete tracks, back when we only had the collection versions to compare to. Compared to the 93 prototype though, the S3C versions are subpar. Proto all the way. My favorites are the remastered protos in AIR
Prototypes still definitely sound the best. They may be unfinished as far as we're concerned, but the instruments don't make my ears bleed, and they still sound like they're at least mixed properly. PC, 3 Complete, and Origins all sound bad in their own ways, though I can't really put it against the 3 Complete team since we didn't have the proto mixes yet, so all they had were the PC mixes to use as a base. Origins has no excuse though. My rankings for the one person that cares: Carnival Night Act 1&2: Proto > 3 Complete >>>> Origins Ice Cap Act&2: Proto > Origins > 3 Complete Launch Base Act 1: Proto > 3 Complete = Origins Launch Base Act 2: Proto >>>>> 3 Complete > Origins
@@dreamcastdazia4753 Yes I did. I didn't directly rank PC since its the only iteration of the 4 not trying to emulate the genesis sound, so to me, its like comparing apples and oranges. My thoughts on PC as a whole: It's definitely a product of its time. Low end doesn't have enough impact for me, and the MIDIs are bit too muddy. I prefer the crispness of the genesis style.
These are not all the tracks that are different in prototype and final release versions, there's also Completion Menu, Knuckles' theme, unused theme and Credits theme
@@TeriosSonic2440 The proto credits theme is used when Sonic falls down with the Master Emerald in the ending and S3K Sonic Origins has the Competition menu, which uses the proto version. Both of these tracks sound exactly the same as the prototype we have, which makes me wonder why CNZ sounds so different.
@@sixteenbitify it's alleged the tracks were actually pulled from an older prototype dated before the proto that was dumped online, it would explain why most of the songs sound way less complete than the proto we all know.
You know what's sad? It's when a ROM hack that has Valleybell's ports of the PC version of Sonic & Knuckles Collection's MIDIs ported to the Genesis/Mega Drive sounds better than what's in Sonic Origins. That's sad.
Prototype Music 100% i It's crazy that these songs are "unfinished" I can understand IceCap 1, but the rest of these tracks from the 1993 Sonic 3 prototype are amazing. I prefer them over the S&K PC Collection and that's the version of Sonic 3 that I grew up with. I didn't experience the MJ & Buxer tracks til much later when I got Sonic Mega Collection for the GC. Sonic 3 Complete has an interesting take on the S&K PC Collection tracks. They sound cleaner and crisp through the Genesis hardware. But Origins..... what happened man? The 1993 prototype tracks would have been just fine. (I modded them in and haven't gone back!!) I assume, these tracks came from a build of Sonic 3 we don't know about. This was probably a more finalized build. This was the build that occurred right before release of the Original Sonic 3, but they ended up releasing the ones with the MJ and Buxer tracks because of time constraints. Considering Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles got split up into two games. Maybe this build went on to be Sonic and Knuckles. Perhaps the tracks we got in origins are the real "Unfinished" songs.
Funfact, the "Prototype" ones are the true original made for the Sega Genesis hardware. - PC Collection is a poor MIDI remake of those songs. The Windows 95 PC MIDI drivers from the time couldn't do justice to Genesis sound chip. - Sonic 3 Complete rebuilt the genesis version of the songs when only the PC Colleciton one where know. - Sonic Origins did the same as Sonic 3 Complete, but without programing to the Sega Genesis hardware, only simulating samples from the chip, but without the same hardware limitations.
Can I take a second to shout out to the s&k collection version of ice cap act 1? It's so good and imo probably better than the others. it sounds the most like an ice mountain with the echoes and such. Honestly Origins sounds pretty faithful to the prototypes. The tracks, especially carnival night act 1, just sound washed out and that reduced the quality. I do like the origins tracks though overall. Definitely not as bad as people are clamoring about it to be. The biggest sin in origins sonic 3 has to be the new super sonic music. Imo if that were never changed then the soundtrack of this game wouldn't be a problem at all
I actually like the new Super Sonic song, both in Origins and in S3C. It got annoying in the original having to listen to the invincibility music 24/7! "danananana dana danana dana ding ding didididididididi"
@@theoneandonly-qs1uw No, these are the originals. They are from '93, before MJ was brought on board. What you're suggesting is what people had been theorizing about the PC tracks for decades. The prototype that surfaced in 2019 revealed that those were intended.
the origins version of the tracks are 100% the versions that the pc port team had to transcribe to midi, and after hearing the state that they would have been in, it's not hard to imagine how they made mistakes and errors in the transcription process. it's abundantly clear that launch base 2 suffered the worst as the middle section's flute is completely drowned out in the mix and difficult to make out what it's doing. i really cant blame the poor pc port team for stuffing the tracks up knowing that these are the tracks they had to go off.
In isolation, it’s neat that we have access to the Sonic Origins tracks, which I’m positive are earlier versions of these level themes than those from the 1103 proto. Unfortunately, I greatly would have preferred SEGA to use the 1103 versions of these tracks in Origins instead.
What baffles me about Origins is that it's painfully obvious that they simply ripped Ice Cap out of the prototype - other than the characteristic Origins muffling, the two sound _identical_ to the point where there's no way it can simply be coincidence. It thus begs the question: _why couldn't they do the same for Carnival Night and Launch Base?_
I've heard some people say the Origins versions are from an earlier prototype, which would explain why IceCap Zone sounds so similar and why all of the non-zone prototype tracks are the same as the November one.
@@harrybest2041If i had to guess, maybe it's adapted from the demos made of those tracks? For whatever reason i guess they didn't have access to the rest like they did with Ice cap. That's just my guess tho.
@@SKOT_3 How would some of the adaptions be completely identical to the originals while others are very off? Ice Cap Zone Act 1 and both themes for Carnival Night Zone and Launch Base Zone are different from the 11/3 prototype (the former's differences being very minor). The ones that are unchanged from the leaked proto are Ice Cap Zone Act 2, the 2P competition theme, the ending theme and the (originally) unused track. I should mention that the 2P competition theme has a similar sound to both Carnival Night Zone tracks and Launch Base Zone Act 2.
I think it's a bit misleading to say that this is the PC version when it's highly dependent on your soundcard/MIDI synthesizer. Church of Kondo has an upload from what might be the intended synth while many uploads on TH-cam use a the emulated GMS WaveTable that is included in newer versions of Windows but is a totally different instrument set than what would've been intended. Don't get me wrong, the Yamaha instruments from the Genesis sound great and the MIDI arrangements are far from perfect, but to say that this is what the PC version sounded like is not universal. If you had a matching sound card, you might even have it sound identical to any other version here.
For me, the music recorded by Wockes is what sounded closer to me on a Sony Vaio 1998 Pentium II desktop computer when I played the collection under 'FM Synthesizer' setting and Not 'Midi' all the way back before the turn of the century as a kid, since you could pick from 2 Sound Settings in the Sonic 3 & Knuckles Collection. th-cam.com/users/Wockes Sample of FM Balloon Park: th-cam.com/video/ODLO8SAyntM/w-d-xo.html Sample of FM Carnival Night Act 1: th-cam.com/video/qeSIZk2PvHU/w-d-xo.html
Timestamps: (0:01) Carnival Night Zone (Act I) (Prototype) (1:01) Carnival Night Zone (Act I) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection) (1:54) Carnival Night Zone (Act I) (Sonic 3 Complete) (2:47) Carnival Night Zone (Act I) (Sonic Origins) (3:40) Carnival Night Zone (Act II) (Prototype) (4:32) Carnival Night Zone (Act II) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection) (5:25) Carnival Night Zone (Act II) (Sonic 3 Complete) (6:18) Carnival Night Zone (Act II) (Sonic Origins) (7:10) Ice Cap Zone (Act I) (Prototype) (8:10) Ice Cap Zone (Act I) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection) (9:13) Ice Cap Zone (Act I) (Sonic 3 Complete) (10:15) Ice Cap Zone (Act I) (Sonic Origins) (11:16) Ice Cap Zone (Act II) (Prototype) (12:19) Ice Cap Zone (Act II) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection) (13:22) Ice Cap Zone (Act II) (Sonic 3 Complete) (14:26) Ice Cap Zone (Act II) (Sonic Origins) (15:29) Launch Base Zone (Act I) (Prototype) (16:37) Launch Base Zone (Act I) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection) (17:46) Launch Base Zone (Act I) (Sonic 3 Complete) (18:55) Launch Base Zone (Act I) (Sonic Origins) (20:03) Launch Base Zone (Act II) (Prototype) (21:10) Launch Base Zone (Act II) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection) (22:18) Launch Base Zone (Act II) (Sonic 3 Complete) (23:25) Launch Base Zone (Act II) (Sonic Origins)
Ice Cap Act 2 in Origins sounds identical to the prototype version, as does the new “Angel island rising into the sky” theme and the blue sphere results theme. Could imply that the tracks are actually from an even older build that what we’ve seen in the Hidden Palace proto. And judging by the fact that the only new composition in the game is an entirely different style, completely done without the Genesis sound chip, I think that’s exactly what they are.
Ok… I’ve been thinking about this theory for a while between me and a friend. But I have to wonder if the Sonic Origins versions of these songs were the true intended versions. Or at least had a presence at some point of Sonic 3s development. Firstly, they are muffled which is mostly a trait of the Genesis music in Sonic Origins for some reason. There was speculation going around before the game launched that they would be remastered, but so far only the Super Sonic theme had that treatment visible, because it has that distinct Sonic 4 style that you cannot get with a Genesis, and it has Sonic 1 Drums out of all games to use it in. Let’s be real, if they really were remastering the music, they’d probably add some consistency across the board. And secondly, if you’ve ever marathoned the S&K Collection midis, you should know that for the tracks in the Final Game, the midi composer doesn’t mess around because even if some sound weird, there’s no denial that it’s instrumentally accurate. In fact, the differing factors you see in Carnival Night 1 and Launch Base 1 which have full blown key changes most likely wouldn’t slip unless the track that the composer is working with actually had those traits in the first place. So after these pieces I was able to pick up, I have essentially theorized that the composer for the midis in S&K Collection were given these versions of the songs to work with, it can be argued that these were the completed tracks in all their intended glory, but it also can be argued that the composer was given earlier versions of those tracks when he was working on translating the songs to midi.
is it just me or does the midi carnival night sound kinda good? i expected it to be just bad but dang this is pretty good, this makes origins even more sad when supposedly bad midi is better.
Wow I unironically prefer the PC MIDI version of Ice Cap Act 1 (at least rendered as it is in the video, in my memories, it was ugly as hell on my S-YXG50 synth lol) over the proto, complete and Origins (but still less than the MJ/Buxer one)
Would have been perfect to include the FM MIDI version of the themes from the PC collection as it was two different modes. Nice comparisons though. Out of all of them I think the prototypes are the best.
Origin's music sounds more like the original MIDI versions more than the actual prototypes, while being drowned underwater with the high synths turned wayyy up (listen to ice cap for reference, they're absolutely ear-grading)
I was originally planning on giving my detailed thoughts for all the different versions of the songs, but it was really proving to be too much for a single TH-cam comment. Instead, I think my thoughts on Carnival Night Act 1 should provide a good enough idea on my thoughts on the different versions of the songs as a whole. Prototype: A slower version of the melody, sounding more jazzy and relaxed compared to the other versions. This one's my second favorite of the bunch. It sounds very polished, but it isn't quite as fitting for the stage due it's, for lack of better words, less fun feeling, and sounds odd when put right next to the Act 2 version. Collection: The more normal version of the melody, which actually doesn't sound too bad for a MIDI. The faster speed and different key actually works in its favor, fitting better with the stage with its fun atmosphere and perfectly matching the Act 2 version of the song. Complete: Pretty much a perfect one-to-one adaptation of the Collection version, but with Genesis instruments! This one's my personal favorite. Origins: I have nothing positive to say about this version. It sounds like they tried to do the same thing as with the Complete version, but it sounds like it's being played on a cheap plug-and-play console with how muffled and boring the instrumentation is. I really don't know how they managed to screw it up this badly, I could even make a better version if I wanted to!
It’s amazing how a different tempo speed and key change can transform the overall vibe of a song. It’s hard to explain the vibes the PC and Origins versions of these tracks evoke. But at best they sound like Fisher Price toy themes, and at worst like someone cranked the fast forward button and dumped the speaker underwater.
I think I get it. Jun Senoue actually didn’t do that bad of a job. He was trying to faithfully recreate the version that was officially released on the Sonic & Knuckles PC Collection and he did make them sound better and more faithful to the Genesis. And the compression was probably an overcompensation in an attempt to make it feel more retro and not a modern creation. If you play Sonic & Knuckles PC Collection first, then Sonic Origins, then Sonic 3 Complete (a fan interpretation I believe) and then the original prototype versions that actually were for the Genesis but we never heard til recent years, you can see the progression better between the lowest and highest versions of the songs. Clearly, I think they just didn’t want to use something that was unofficially revealed, and that’s why they went with the PC version and not the Prototype version (which I assume they don’t actually have anyone aside from hidden files that had to be mined.)
Jun wasn't trying to recreate the version, because the Origins versions are likely from an earlier build of the game; and the reason why the S&K PC versions sound closer to the Origins versions is because they were transcribed from the same versions Origins is using.
@@ChilliusVGM Nah because like I said, Jun's version sounds more like the PC release of the tracks than what the tracks were meant to sound like on Genesis. Like he made them sound kinda sorta like they were on Genesis too, but with the notes changed to reflect how they sounded on PC because that's the only official release of the songs. It's the only way other fans ever woulda grown up with those tracks until they discovered fan file dumps, hacks and mods.
@@Axxidous lol no, jun did nothing to the songs; they’re firstly recorded off real hardware which senoue wouldn’t likely know a thing about working off hardware anymore after 3D blast was over 20 years ago, and secondly; the origins tracks match the proto ones closer than the PC ones do. Carnival Night Act 1 has entire brass melodies played at a very low octave, omitted from the PC version because the transcribers likely couldn’t hear the melodies over the bass, Launch Base Act 2’s flute instrument change has its entire melody consistent with the prototype (aside from a few notes which were different in that version) that were absolutely butchered in the PC version. the logic behind it is that senoue just grabbed whatever versions they had lying around, which happened to be these versions; he made no changes to them, didnt use the pc version as a base or anything like that as well, if you want to see the only thing jun did himself in origins; the super sonic theme
@@ChilliusVGM Yeah he didn't do anything to the songs. He completely recorded them new. Like a cover. They specifically said that. And that he was going to make them faithful to the original. I'm saying the PC ones are the versions he based the Origins tracks off of. Those are the originals. The only version they have lying around that was officially released. The Origins tracks match the Prototype versions more because he recorded them in Origins attempting to sound like they were Genesis tracks and the Prototype versions ARE Genesis tracks. But the notes he's playing in Origins are what it sounded like in the PC version. You literally hear it in comparison. The Origins tracks may sound more like the Prototype tracks than the PC versions do, because the Origins tracks are better than the PC versions. But that's it. Otherwise, the Origins tracks still sound more like the PC tracks than they do the Prototype tracks.
i kinda like how the origins ones sound if it wasnt for the muffled audio quality i probably would like them more, well, for carnival night at least that seems like the only muffled one, hope they fix this in a patch
The Best ones(my opinion) Carnival Night Act 1: Prototype Carnival Night Act 2: Prototype Ice Cap Act 1: S3 Complete Ice Cap Act 2: S3 Complete Launch Base Act 1: Prototype Launch Base Act 2: Prototype
The Sonic Origins versions instrument wise sound fine to me, but the issue is moreso that ALL Sonic 3 & Knuckles tracks were muffled, it wasn't just the prototype ones that were. They sound as if they were recorded from a VA0 or VA1 Model 2 Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Model 2 (they are known to have the worst sound quality, I witnessed it myself) Besides that, the Origins versions sound the most official of the bunch.
The muffled sound like this is actually what the VA3 to VA6.8 range of MegaDrive **model 1** hardware revisions sound like, right down to the distinctive ladder effect of the YM2612 (though sometimes too muffled), although much to my horror, I found 6 audio samples in the game, all from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, which were recorded off quite possibly THE worst-sounding MegaDrive hardware revision of all: the VA7 model 1. Everything lined up from the even more muffled FM sound to the unholy amount of distortion, crunch and hiss this revision is notorious for AND very heavy clipping on the positive half of the waveform. Frankly, the entirety of Sonic Origins' audio is inconsistent, with most of what's in Sonic 3 & Knuckles sounding like proper hardware recordings (I say "most" due to those VA7 model 1 recordings), yet the other games, particularly Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic 2, sound like they mix hardware recordings for the music with completely raw, unfiltered sound effects. It's incredibly jarring because of how aggressive the filter is to begin with on a VA3-VA6.8 MegaDrive model 1 (2.89KHz cutoff!), which creates a really unpleasant mix and horribly piercing sound effects. I should note this information is based on having poked around the PC version's audio data.
@@Ace9921 Aren't the VA7 Model 1's the same Audio as the VA0, VA1, and VA1.8 Model 2's? But just curious, which songs exactly are recorded from the VA7? I don't have Sonic Origins yet but I am curious about it.
@@bumparchive Actually, no, they're not quite 100% the same. VA7 model 1s have biasing issues due to the dual-transistor chain having limited positive voltage swing, resulting in heavy clipping on one half of the waveform, and this is what gives away the fact that Sonic Origins has recordings from a VA7 model 1. VA0, VA1 and VA1.8 model 2s have a reworked version of the VA7's circuit, but the VA0 sounds worse than the others because Sega, for whatever reason, thought it was a good idea to add extra gain on the circuit, resulting in louder sound than VA1 and VA1.8, but with worse distortion, and in some cases, pretty severe noise. As for which particular tracks in Sonic Origins are recorded off a VA7 model 1, it's these: -Title (Sonic & Knuckles) -Knuckles Appears (Sonic & Knuckles) -Final Eggman -Power Up (Sonic & Knuckles) - Invincibility -1UP (Sonic & Knuckles) - Extra Life -All Clear (Sonic & Knuckles) - Victory If you pay close attention, you'll notice these 6 songs are more muffled than every other song in the game and distorted like a VA7 model 1 (though curiously, the distortion present in Sonic Origins is actually not to the same degree as my own personal stock VA7 Genesis model 1, which has significantly worse distortion, and I would assume this is due to the system used for Sonic Origins having different op-amps than the BA10324AF in my console, and I would assume those op-amps to be NEC's uPC324G). There is so much inconsistency in the sound design with Sonic Origins like I mentioned in my initial response to your comment. I'm going to take it upon myself to rework the sounds and music from every single game in this compilation using actual hardware recordings because I frankly don't see Sega doing it themselves. I'll use a VA5 MegaDrive model 1 across the board, though I will also include some bonus mods for Sonic 3 based on Sonic & Knuckles Collection's OPL3 and MIDI soundtrack using an older SoundBlaster 16 model for the former and a Roland SC-88Pro for the latter, and some extras from other MIDI boxes and OPL3 clones.
Though I will say, assuming that the origins songs are from an earlier prototype than the prototype songs, that *is* interesting. But the way they were released was wrong and ruined their reputation, and its basically impossible to get people to see it any other way.
Ice Cap I think got the best hand overall with Launch Base getting a pretty good one too. Ice Cap 1 and Launch Base 1's best tracks I dare say are from S&K collection! But no matter how good most versions of the beta Ice Cap's tracks are, they cant beat hard times sadly
I grew up with the PC version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles and I never knew anything different about this music. My mind was blown when I found out about the differences between the prototype and actual final versions in the original game. Even though I have such bad memories of that stupid barrel in Carnival Night act 2, it's still one of my favorite tracks in the whole game. I will forever be sad that prototype Carnival Night 1 and 2 aren't the official ones we got. They're both bangers.
The complete versions actually fit in more than the actual official ones my god. Like had we gotten something like that I'd accept them even if i wouldn't be satisfied.
Really the only Zone Jun Senoue really miss the mark was Carnival Night Zone but otherwise he actually did a good job with Ice Cap and Launch Base Zones. That being said, The prototype versions are still superior.
@@autosaver I thought it was fine. It's better than hearing the 5 second invincibility theme nonstop. With only the Sonic 4 instrumentation being out of place.
It wasn't him, though. They used prototype versions that were even older than the 1103 versions. Because he did originally work on those, Sega marketed it as though it was recent work. It's misleading.
I genuinely believe, prototype version is waaaay better. At least in act 1. I like the act 2 MIDI from S&K collection and the complete hack made it incredibly good. I can't understand why did Sonic Team decided it was a good idea use a MIDI format into a Genesis Soundfont
I think you are a bit confused. Both the genesis and the PC port use midi, a data file. Difference is in this video, genesis used midi that was made for an fm synthisizer whilst the PC one used general midi. FM synthesis midi was made specifically for sound cards that have... An fm synthesis. General midi was for the PC users who don't have a soundcard with an fm synthisizer. The real question should be: why would a game that was released on a cd have audio in midi? Btw, for the PC release, there was an option for fm synthisizer midi. However... The sound isn't very... Sophisticated.
Why didn't they just rip the Prototype versions for Origins? They sound more finalized than what we ended up getting. I'd even take the PC versions instead
Amazing how much of a difference execution can make. These are all the same song, just done differently. IMO, Origins generally did a very good job, but the prototypes general feel most right to me. I'm just so used to the Jackson songs from the original release, though, hearing anything else just feels wrong to me. Also, my god, the Sonic & Knuckles versions are so bad. They're just so harsh. Going from the prototype to the collection has me throwing my head back from shock.
Agreed. AIR is a "modern" way to play it whilst complete is the old school way to play it. To top it off, they are free and require little storage, espesually 3 complete.
3 complete was a way to deliver the game to all sonic fans but because of a McDonald's commercial about the game split sonic 3 into two separate games. Thanks Sega
my rankings for each song carnival night 1 prototype: Unlike all other remixes, it feels like a party which the theme of the zone sonic 3 complete: it is great but still has the bad feellings pc: it manage to ruin it first origins: they made a mistake telling jun to remix th pc tracks carnival night 2 prototype: even more celebrating sonic 3 complete: it feels so chilling, this makes a good thing to hear pc: nice but horible instruments origins: weak, lifeless and horible mistake ice cap 1 prototype: this sreams ice pc: manages to mic icy and funk music origins: it is pretty solid, only mistake being the main motif sonic 3 complete: the instruments ruin everything ice cap 2 prototype: this so much nice times origins: identical to the proto version, only in second place due to the other jun songs pc: same feel as act 1 sonic 3 complete: it manages to be worse than jun's remaster launch base 1 (complete later)
I only just noticed something really damning about the PC Tracks. They have a more complete drum line (note the actual symbols which most proto songs lack) which the Proto/Origins track lack. I believe this might be a big part of why they sound so unfinished. The biggest culprit of this is probably IceCap 1
Ok, I'm gonna rank this songs CNZ Act 1 Proto: Sounds very happy and whismical, very fitting for a carnival-based zone 10/10 CNZ Act 1 S&K PC Collection: Sounds very retro, and I do enjoy the retro songs! However, it doesn't beat the prototype version 8/10 CNZ Act 1 S3C: A very good port of the PC version to the Genesis' soundchip! 9/10 CNZ Act 1 Origins: A perfect example of how to ruin a good proto music 1/10 CNZ Act 2 Proto: A perfect warm-up for the next level of a carnival-based zone! 9/10 CNZ Act 2 S&K Collection: A very good MIDI conversion of the prototype music 9/10 CNZ Act 2 S3C: Pure ear candy for your ears! 10/10 CNZ Act 2 Origins: No, just no! Possibly the worst conversion of a Sonic song 0/10 ICZ Act 1 Proto:Basically a song that defines an ice level very well, but I think the final version is better 9/10 ICZ Act 1 S&K Collection: One, if not, the best MIDI conversion I've heard of a Sonic song 10/10 ICZ Act 1 S3C: A solid conversion of the PC version that manages to cover it the correct way 9/10 ICZ Act 1 Origins: The only Origins track that gets a not so low score, considerating it sounds similar to the prototype one but muffled 5/10 ICZ Act 2 Proto: Basically a perfect example of how to make a good ice-themed song 10/10 ICZ Act 2 S&K Collection: A decent MIDI conversion of a ice-themed song 7/10 ICZ Act 2 S3C: Same as Act 1 9/10 ICZ Act 2 Origins: Same feeling as Act 1 5/10 LBZ Act 1 Prototype: When it comes to Launch Base, it's very hard to rank, but I can define this one as a very good sounding song and fitting for a level like this 8/10 LBZ Act 1 S&K Collection: A very good done MIDI conversion of the prototype song 9/10 LBZ Act 1 S3C: A solid and fresh Genesis cover of the PC version, very good done 9/10 LBZ Act 1 Origins: What on Mobius is this ass sounding monstrosity?! This thing can make your ears bleed in seconds if you use headphones! 0/10 LBZ Act 2 Prototype: Basically the one that should be used in the final version 10/10 LBZ Act 2 S&K Collection: A solid MIDI conversion that does it's job pretty well 7/10 LBZ Act 2 S3C: This one has been ruined by Origins and I can't forgive that, because this one is basically one of the best prototype song conversions I've ever heard 10/10 LBZ Act 2 Origins: Basically an example of how to fuck up a masterpiece of a cover 1/10
Every zone best to worst carnival night .Sonic 3 prototype (it sounds the clearest) .sonic3 complete .sonic and knuckles collection .sonic origins carnival night zone act 1 and 2 (my ears fell cramped listening to it) Ice cap zone .Sonic origins (it sounds perfect compared to the other versions listed still doesn’t beat the original though but what does) .Sonic and knuckles collection .Sonic 3 complete .sonic 3 complete (I don’t like the instrumentation it feels like my ears are being stabbed) Launch base .sonic and knuckles collection (it has the best energy) .sonic 3 complete .sonic 3 prototype .sonic origins (just like carnival night it sounds muffled) That’s all hope you like my opinion but any opinion is valid
My problem with the Origins music is that it all sounds dull and muffled, making the music less impactful as a result. Overall the actual prototype tracks are the best of the group.
I wouldn't have such an issue with these origin versions if they weren't so got damn muffled lol. like they sound filtered to hell and back. this whole ost situation reminds me of guilty gear X2. there's 2 ost's for it. the main one and the Korean reload version. I feel if this was more like those, aka cool alt themes that sound good but are completely different... then I'd be more OK with these prototype tracks in general. but I don't like a single one as much as their original. I'm down for new takes on things musically. just wish I liked these more. they're OK at best. but music is stupidly subjective. everyone misses ice cap the most and I only ever thought that song was OK too. I'm hurting without carnival night tho lol. and that's seeming to be the one people miss the least. meaning everyone's got different opinions on all this. even if I disagree, I'm always fascinated by music takes.
The Origins music sounds like I dropped my speakers in water while listening to the prototype music.
The music in Origins sounds like in Sonic 3 Complete. It's just that some notes were cut out so as not to be scorched that they stole music from a hack and not from a prototype. If you don't believe me, listen first to Sonic 3 Complete, and then immediately to Sonic Origins, you will not notice the difference. (well, except that some notes are missing) =)
@@oldsanek7242 I just realised that!
@@oldsanek7242 That's probably because S3C was released before leak of the prototype, so the only known versions of these songs were PC versions - that's one more proof that whoever made "arrangements" for Origins just used PC version's MIDI files and pushed it to the game without any significant changes and it was done probably the similar way to Complete, that's why they sound kinda sameish.
@@Gameceptor they also failed to equalize the songs tracks correctly.
I don't reccomend this collection. It's more worse than 'O6 and Shadow the Hedgehog(except for the soundtrack).
is it just me or the prototype carnival night sounds better than the final? idk the sudden silence in some of the parts just make the level feel empty, while the prototype version feels lively and very cool.
Prototype is way better I really live the starting part of act 2
@@ranger4627 True, the clapping and all that stuff, Very good song
Simply because Jun Senou doesn't know how to do Genesis music, he never worked on that front, only did the normal uncompressed music.
Even if the melody is good, the instruments he used simply degrade the song.
@@juaneste4640 I’m pretty sure from what I’ve heard Jun may have just pulled the tracks out of an earlier prototype which is why Ice cap zone act 2 sounds nearly identical and the only new song Jun made was that New super theme which sounds like it was ripped from Sonic 4
Carnival Night From Origins Sounds...Better? It's Like An Remaster.
As someone who played the PC version and therefore grew very fond of the prototype soundtracks, I was really hyped when I heard Origins was going to feature these songs. The hype was real. The disappointment afterwards was even more real.
I agree
Proto CN and LB are IMO better than the Final release, but nothing tops Hard Times for ICZ
Same, I too grew up with the pc ver. and when the proto themes dropped I thought they were the definitive experience. Sadly origins used the composition of the pc midi's :(
@@ErevanDB It's a tough choice for me, but I agree on that. Jackson's Ice Cap music is top notch.
Atleast they got Ice Cap right
Damn, when even a rom hack sounds better than in origins, you know that’s sad
What. These aren't rom hacks, all of these were made officially by Sega's Sound Team amd later rearranged by Jun Senoue for Origins (supposedly, some say that the one's in Sonic Origins are actually from and even earlier build then the one's used in the Prototype uncovered in 2019). Personally, the prototype ones are the best spunding versions to me, they should've just used those versions.
@@chocov1233 not Sonic 3 Complete, that’s a rom hack
@@chocov1233 Sonic 3 Complete is a fan made version of the tracks. Not official. The prototype at the end is the original version of the songs that weren’t revealed til 2019 by fans. They were filtered and ruined in the Sonic & Knuckles PC Collection that came out years ago officially. So that version is the first and only officially released version of these tracks until Origins came out.
@@chocov1233 Sonic 3 Complete was made by Sonic Retro's Tiddles, among others. It's an unofficial ROM hack of S3K that's been around for quite a while.
Nah Sonic 3 Completes version sounds terrible for carnival night and Ice cap, and launch base is debatable, Origins music is way better.
Music:
0:00 Carnival Night Act 1 (Sonic 3 Nov 3, 1993 Prototype)
1:01 Carnival Night Act 1 (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
1:54 Carnival Night Act 1 (Sonic 3 Complete)
2:47 Carnival Night Act 1 (Sonic Origins)
3:39 Carnival Night Act 2 (Sonic 3 Nov 3, 1993 Prototype)
4:31 Carnival Night Act 2 (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
5:24 Carnival Night Act 2 (Sonic 3 Complete)
6:17 Carnival Night Act 2 (Sonic Origins)
7:10 Ice Cap Act 1 (Sonic 3 Nov 3, 1993 Prototype)
8:11 Ice Cap Act 1 (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
9:13 Ice Cap Act 1 (Sonic 3 Complete)
10:15 Ice Cap Act 1 (Sonic Origins)
11:16 Ice Cap Act 2 (Sonic 3 Nov 3, 1993 Prototype)
12:19 Ice Cap Act 2 (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
13:22 Ice Cap Act 2 (Sonic 3 Complete)
14:26 Ice Cap Act 2 (Sonic Origins)
15:29 Launch Base Act 1 (Sonic 3 Nov 3, 1993 Prototype)
16:37 Launch Base Act 1 (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
17:45 Launch Base Act 1 (Sonic 3 Complete)
18:54 Launch Base Act 1 (Sonic Origins)
20:03 Launch Base Act 2 (Sonic 3 Nov 3, 1993 Prototype)
21:10 Launch Base Act 2 (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
22:17 Launch Base Act 2 (Sonic 3 Complete)
23:25 Launch Base Act 2 (Sonic Origins)
I personally don't mind the Prototype tracks and I can completely understand why Origins had to use them, given the numerous issues with copyright and such surrounding the original soundtrack, I just don't understand why the Origins versions are so incredibly muffled. It sounds like Jun Senoue held a pillow up against the speaker playing the Prototype tracks and that was how he "FM Makeover"d them.
id be okay with only having origubs for sonic 3
It's like Origin's soundtrack was mixed in an "Oops! All water levels!" fashion.
Yea the mixing is terrible 😭😂. Personally i miss the original soundtraks they kut kause of kopyright and wat not.. they koulda at least mixed these inferior traKs better on origins i mean kmon it's 2022 😂
@@eliaskwola yeah your totally right I mean kmon sega! Fuk you! Kant believe they’d mess up this bad lol
@@Ertto54 🤣🤣🤣
Yall need grammer 💀
@@eliaskwola Alphabet 2 alert!
Hands down Prototype from Sonic A.I.R. fits with the game more. It has the vibrance that goes along with the game.
Sonic A.I.R is a rom hack the prototype songs are from an actual offical sonic 3 prototype
@@Izzythemaker127 I know that. Sonic 3 A.I.R is the definitive way to play it and I grew up playing this game. The thing is the prototype music was never officially part of the final release so it's not considered the original music. Aside from the S&K collection for PC, it wasn't really featured and I'm pretty sure that PC version was never a hit.
@@Izzythemaker127 Sonic 3 Air isn't a ROM hack
@@Izzythemaker127 Sonic 3 A.I.R is a fan game. Sonic 3 complete is a rom hack.
Sonic 3 AIR uses very similar versions of the prototype tracks to the versions that were actually *in* the prototype, so I'm not exactly surprised.
Is it just me or does the pc edition version of Ice Cap sound so good compared to the rest? It's so nice!
It's sounds like they actually tried to complete it.
The Sonic 3 Complete version, made in 2013, sounds better than the Sonic Origins version, made in 2022.
In what kind of world we live?
no, the tracks in S3C are terrible.
and you are absolutly blind thinking the year matters, as the tracks from origin are from 1993. they PREDATE the current prototype we have.
@@ViewpointProd theyre not bad, they are very good recreations of the midi. the proto tracks are obviously better in many ways, but youre just coping and malding
The proto music is better because they had an actual Megadrive sound engineer compile the music properly with appropriate Megadrive instruments i could have had the reworked origins music any day if it was compiled and using instruments more similar to the proto versions because the sound engineers knew what they where doing.
@@zyriuz2 just in IceCap and Launch Base I like more in S3Complete, but the rest, Prototype wins.
Idk
Ice cap act 1 from sonic and knuckles collection is amazing, the midi connects very well with the atmosphere of the area
Yup. Thing is there are many different versions of the PC sound track. MANY. I think it depended on how good ur oc was back then or something. Either way this is the first time Im hearing this redition of the PC ice Cap
@@dreamcastdazia4753 There are 2 versions of the PC soundtrack. midi or fm synthesis
@@autosaver more than 2 tho. I listened to multiple and they were all slightly different but noticable in someway. Especially marble garden looool. That one changes the most in every version
@@dreamcastdazia4753 that’s because the actual sound can vary based on the pc hardware. It’s still the same soundtrack.
@@autosaver that's what I'm saying
One thing a lot of people fail to mention is that Icecap Act 2 in Origins is basically a muffled version of the 1103 prototype song. I don't hear any instrument differences otherwise.
2:47 WE REFUNDING THE GAME WITH DIS ONEE 🔥🔥🔥
Why does Launch Base make me feel like i'm in a 90's exercise video LOL
Feels like the president is arriving
@@KashRulez214 basically the president from shadow the hedgehog(that one who had a photo of Sonic and Shadow on his desk)
Yeah. Honestly neither versions(MJ and SEGA sound team) fit the level and should have been kept in a jar and used for a later date in... Almost any other level.
Btw thanks for the new name for the MJ launch base track.
I wanted to call it a morning jog, but honestly "90s exercise video" is way better.
I guess it's supposed to encourage you to keep going, since it's Eggman's hideout. The MJ one has a similar effect by saying "go" constantly.
What Jun did to Carnival Night act 1/2 and Launch Base act 2 was a CRIME.
As much as Origins' soundtrack is a muffled mess that could easily have been done way better, I am kinda glad to have access to what are clearly the tapes that the S&K Collection composers were actually working from. With those muffled frequencies, it's easy to see how they made some of the transcription errors they did- especially Launch Base 2, whose lead melody in the middle eight is virtually inaudible in the Origins tape.
one thing to mention is that the Sonic & Knuckles collection has 2 versions of the soundtrack
One with the FM Synthesizer and other being General MIDI, This video seems to use general midi which has a slightly higher quality
Thank you so much, I’m learning tNice tutorials in quarantine and you made it very simple I really appreciate it, thank you for going over every little
My option on these soundtracks
Prototype: Sounds incomplete but does still sound good.
S&K collection: Sounds like the music was made a few years later. (Before I said for more modern hardware, but idk which console would sound like that, just something a bit more than the Genesis I guess.)
S3 complete: Sounds like the music was actually completed and is my favorite.
Origins: It sounds like the s&k collection music is drowning.
My own mini teir list I made after this comment:
1: S3 complete
2: Prototype
3: S&K Collection
4: Sonic Origins
MIDI is modern hardware? Nah... even when that collection came out I thought they all sounded like hot garbage.
I said my options, also I never said what hardware because honestly idk what would sound like that.
@@bidoofus246 fair enough. Not trying to bash you, it just feels funny to consider MIDI as modern, even back then.
Compared to 1991 Genesis it would be modern. I'd still prefer the classic sound chip, personally.
Origins’ has grown on me, so I don’t crap on it too hard, it’s just a bit too muffled for my liking sometimes, mainly the drums
Some of the S3 Complete tracks, I’m not a fan of, but they had only the S&KC to work with, but idk what they did to CNZ1
all in all, the 1103 Proto tracks will still sound somewhat better in my opinion, and Origins’ has sorta just grown on me despite not having played the game for the ungodly amount of bugs in it
@@geos-music-corner muffled is a perfect descriptor. I used to like the S3Complete tracks, back when we only had the collection versions to compare to. Compared to the 93 prototype though, the S3C versions are subpar. Proto all the way.
My favorites are the remastered protos in AIR
Prototypes still definitely sound the best. They may be unfinished as far as we're concerned, but the instruments don't make my ears bleed, and they still sound like they're at least mixed properly.
PC, 3 Complete, and Origins all sound bad in their own ways, though I can't really put it against the 3 Complete team since we didn't have the proto mixes yet, so all they had were the PC mixes to use as a base. Origins has no excuse though.
My rankings for the one person that cares:
Carnival Night Act 1&2: Proto > 3 Complete >>>> Origins
Ice Cap Act&2: Proto > Origins > 3 Complete
Launch Base Act 1: Proto > 3 Complete = Origins
Launch Base Act 2: Proto >>>>> 3 Complete > Origins
Did you even listen to the PC version of I've cap (this PC version anyway since there are others)
@@dreamcastdazia4753 Yes I did. I didn't directly rank PC since its the only iteration of the 4 not trying to emulate the genesis sound, so to me, its like comparing apples and oranges.
My thoughts on PC as a whole: It's definitely a product of its time. Low end doesn't have enough impact for me, and the MIDIs are bit too muddy. I prefer the crispness of the genesis style.
My only gripe with origins’ Ice Cap (or any track added on to that) is that the drums are muffled
These are not all the tracks that are different in prototype and final release versions, there's also Completion Menu, Knuckles' theme, unused theme and Credits theme
credits theme, competition and knuckles themes beta versions are not in origins afaik
unused theme is the same as proto in origins
@@TeriosSonic2440 The proto credits theme is used when Sonic falls down with the Master Emerald in the ending and S3K Sonic Origins has the Competition menu, which uses the proto version. Both of these tracks sound exactly the same as the prototype we have, which makes me wonder why CNZ sounds so different.
@@sixteenbitify it's alleged the tracks were actually pulled from an older prototype dated before the proto that was dumped online, it would explain why most of the songs sound way less complete than the proto we all know.
You know what's sad? It's when a ROM hack that has Valleybell's ports of the PC version of Sonic & Knuckles Collection's MIDIs ported to the Genesis/Mega Drive sounds better than what's in Sonic Origins. That's sad.
I guess either they didn't it existed or they're lazy.
No, I disagree with ya, S3C is way worse than you think, but S&K collection is even worse than S3C.
Mate, all of them sound worse than the 1993 proto themes, even S3C. Lol
Prototype Music 100% i
It's crazy that these songs are "unfinished" I can understand IceCap 1, but the rest of these tracks from the 1993 Sonic 3 prototype are amazing.
I prefer them over the S&K PC Collection and that's the version of Sonic 3 that I grew up with. I didn't experience the MJ & Buxer tracks til much later when I got Sonic Mega Collection for the GC. Sonic 3 Complete has an interesting take on the S&K PC Collection tracks. They sound cleaner and crisp through the Genesis hardware. But Origins..... what happened man? The 1993 prototype tracks would have been just fine. (I modded them in and haven't gone back!!) I assume, these tracks came from a build of Sonic 3 we don't know about. This was probably a more finalized build. This was the build that occurred right before release of the Original Sonic 3, but they ended up releasing the ones with the MJ and Buxer tracks because of time constraints. Considering Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles got split up into two games. Maybe this build went on to be Sonic and Knuckles. Perhaps the tracks we got in origins are the real "Unfinished" songs.
The proto music was the complete versions until MJ made new music for the 3 zones.
And by MJ, I mean his team and Brad Buxer
Funfact, the "Prototype" ones are the true original made for the Sega Genesis hardware.
- PC Collection is a poor MIDI remake of those songs. The Windows 95 PC MIDI drivers from the time couldn't do justice to Genesis sound chip.
- Sonic 3 Complete rebuilt the genesis version of the songs when only the PC Colleciton one where know.
- Sonic Origins did the same as Sonic 3 Complete, but without programing to the Sega Genesis hardware, only simulating samples from the chip, but without the same hardware limitations.
Sonic Origins' versions might not be remixes, but from a version predating the November 1993 prototype.
Can I take a second to shout out to the s&k collection version of ice cap act 1? It's so good and imo probably better than the others. it sounds the most like an ice mountain with the echoes and such.
Honestly Origins sounds pretty faithful to the prototypes. The tracks, especially carnival night act 1, just sound washed out and that reduced the quality. I do like the origins tracks though overall. Definitely not as bad as people are clamoring about it to be. The biggest sin in origins sonic 3 has to be the new super sonic music. Imo if that were never changed then the soundtrack of this game wouldn't be a problem at all
I actually like the new Super Sonic song, both in Origins and in S3C. It got annoying in the original having to listen to the invincibility music 24/7! "danananana dana danana dana ding ding didididididididi"
Still weird to hear any of these with the original Genesis soundtrack stuck so firmly in my mind growing up.
Technically, these are the originals
@alphabootlegitimate2643 the prototype music was made as a replacement if they couldn't use the final music or something
@@theoneandonly-qs1uw No, these are the originals. They are from '93, before MJ was brought on board.
What you're suggesting is what people had been theorizing about the PC tracks for decades. The prototype that surfaced in 2019 revealed that those were intended.
@alphabootlegitimate2643 well idk what to believe now
the origins version of the tracks are 100% the versions that the pc port team had to transcribe to midi, and after hearing the state that they would have been in, it's not hard to imagine how they made mistakes and errors in the transcription process. it's abundantly clear that launch base 2 suffered the worst as the middle section's flute is completely drowned out in the mix and difficult to make out what it's doing. i really cant blame the poor pc port team for stuffing the tracks up knowing that these are the tracks they had to go off.
About Ice Cap Zone Act 2 in Origins, it's actually same theme from Prototype Nov. 3 1993
yeah, its just that the beginning is slightly louder
IceCap Act 1's snowboarding intro in Origins is actually synced with the music
In isolation, it’s neat that we have access to the Sonic Origins tracks, which I’m positive are earlier versions of these level themes than those from the 1103 proto. Unfortunately, I greatly would have preferred SEGA to use the 1103 versions of these tracks in Origins instead.
What baffles me about Origins is that it's painfully obvious that they simply ripped Ice Cap out of the prototype - other than the characteristic Origins muffling, the two sound _identical_ to the point where there's no way it can simply be coincidence. It thus begs the question: _why couldn't they do the same for Carnival Night and Launch Base?_
I've heard some people say the Origins versions are from an earlier prototype, which would explain why IceCap Zone sounds so similar and why all of the non-zone prototype tracks are the same as the November one.
@@harrybest2041If i had to guess, maybe it's adapted from the demos made of those tracks? For whatever reason i guess they didn't have access to the rest like they did with Ice cap. That's just my guess tho.
@@SKOT_3 How would some of the adaptions be completely identical to the originals while others are very off?
Ice Cap Zone Act 1 and both themes for Carnival Night Zone and Launch Base Zone are different from the 11/3 prototype (the former's differences being very minor).
The ones that are unchanged from the leaked proto are Ice Cap Zone Act 2, the 2P competition theme, the ending theme and the (originally) unused track.
I should mention that the 2P competition theme has a similar sound to both Carnival Night Zone tracks and Launch Base Zone Act 2.
That Ice Cap screenshot sums up the level pretty well: A straight line to the goal.
None of these music was in my Sonic 3 cartridge.
No, it wasn't.
Man... imagine if people would just stop whining about these songs and start making remixes of them.
Wouldn't that just be fantastic?
There are... Already remixes of them.
It would be better if people pretended origins does not exist and only focus on sonic 3 complete & sonic 3 air.
I think it's a bit misleading to say that this is the PC version when it's highly dependent on your soundcard/MIDI synthesizer. Church of Kondo has an upload from what might be the intended synth while many uploads on TH-cam use a the emulated GMS WaveTable that is included in newer versions of Windows but is a totally different instrument set than what would've been intended.
Don't get me wrong, the Yamaha instruments from the Genesis sound great and the MIDI arrangements are far from perfect, but to say that this is what the PC version sounded like is not universal. If you had a matching sound card, you might even have it sound identical to any other version here.
For me, the music recorded by Wockes is what sounded closer to me on a Sony Vaio 1998 Pentium II desktop computer when I played the collection under 'FM Synthesizer' setting and Not 'Midi' all the way back before the turn of the century as a kid, since you could pick from 2 Sound Settings in the Sonic 3 & Knuckles Collection.
th-cam.com/users/Wockes
Sample of FM Balloon Park: th-cam.com/video/ODLO8SAyntM/w-d-xo.html
Sample of FM Carnival Night Act 1: th-cam.com/video/qeSIZk2PvHU/w-d-xo.html
"S&L COLLECTION" 💀
Timestamps:
(0:01) Carnival Night Zone (Act I) (Prototype)
(1:01) Carnival Night Zone (Act I) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
(1:54) Carnival Night Zone (Act I) (Sonic 3 Complete)
(2:47) Carnival Night Zone (Act I) (Sonic Origins)
(3:40) Carnival Night Zone (Act II) (Prototype)
(4:32) Carnival Night Zone (Act II) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
(5:25) Carnival Night Zone (Act II) (Sonic 3 Complete)
(6:18) Carnival Night Zone (Act II) (Sonic Origins)
(7:10) Ice Cap Zone (Act I) (Prototype)
(8:10) Ice Cap Zone (Act I) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
(9:13) Ice Cap Zone (Act I) (Sonic 3 Complete)
(10:15) Ice Cap Zone (Act I) (Sonic Origins)
(11:16) Ice Cap Zone (Act II) (Prototype)
(12:19) Ice Cap Zone (Act II) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
(13:22) Ice Cap Zone (Act II) (Sonic 3 Complete)
(14:26) Ice Cap Zone (Act II) (Sonic Origins)
(15:29) Launch Base Zone (Act I) (Prototype)
(16:37) Launch Base Zone (Act I) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
(17:46) Launch Base Zone (Act I) (Sonic 3 Complete)
(18:55) Launch Base Zone (Act I) (Sonic Origins)
(20:03) Launch Base Zone (Act II) (Prototype)
(21:10) Launch Base Zone (Act II) (Sonic & Knuckles Collection)
(22:18) Launch Base Zone (Act II) (Sonic 3 Complete)
(23:25) Launch Base Zone (Act II) (Sonic Origins)
Ice Cap Act 2 in Origins sounds identical to the prototype version, as does the new “Angel island rising into the sky” theme and the blue sphere results theme. Could imply that the tracks are actually from an even older build that what we’ve seen in the Hidden Palace proto. And judging by the fact that the only new composition in the game is an entirely different style, completely done without the Genesis sound chip, I think that’s exactly what they are.
Are you deaf? The music is an Octave higher than the Prototype!
@@DGCpicturesEntertainmentare you sure you’re not the deaf one mate? Lol
@@WeegeeSqueegee My mistake. I thought you wrote Act 1. Still though, Origins' tracks are MUCH more muffled than the ones from the Prototype.
Sonic 3 launch base zone act 2 is literally a god send. I wish it was used for both acts.
Amazon why
Every act had different music.
It was the law.
You know it's depressing when the sonic and knuckles collection soundtrack is better than origins
Pc collection sounds like shit
Pc collection is the worst
Pc collection is bad
No.
Pc collection was the version that origins butchered
Ok… I’ve been thinking about this theory for a while between me and a friend. But I have to wonder if the Sonic Origins versions of these songs were the true intended versions. Or at least had a presence at some point of Sonic 3s development. Firstly, they are muffled which is mostly a trait of the Genesis music in Sonic Origins for some reason. There was speculation going around before the game launched that they would be remastered, but so far only the Super Sonic theme had that treatment visible, because it has that distinct Sonic 4 style that you cannot get with a Genesis, and it has Sonic 1 Drums out of all games to use it in. Let’s be real, if they really were remastering the music, they’d probably add some consistency across the board. And secondly, if you’ve ever marathoned the S&K Collection midis, you should know that for the tracks in the Final Game, the midi composer doesn’t mess around because even if some sound weird, there’s no denial that it’s instrumentally accurate. In fact, the differing factors you see in Carnival Night 1 and Launch Base 1 which have full blown key changes most likely wouldn’t slip unless the track that the composer is working with actually had those traits in the first place. So after these pieces I was able to pick up, I have essentially theorized that the composer for the midis in S&K Collection were given these versions of the songs to work with, it can be argued that these were the completed tracks in all their intended glory, but it also can be argued that the composer was given earlier versions of those tracks when he was working on translating the songs to midi.
is it just me or does the midi carnival night sound kinda good? i expected it to be just bad but dang this is pretty good, this makes origins even more sad when supposedly bad midi is better.
The origins versions sound like they're coming out of a Wii Remote Speaker
Wow I unironically prefer the PC MIDI version of Ice Cap Act 1 (at least rendered as it is in the video, in my memories, it was ugly as hell on my S-YXG50 synth lol) over the proto, complete and Origins (but still less than the MJ/Buxer one)
Would have been perfect to include the FM MIDI version of the themes from the PC collection as it was two different modes. Nice comparisons though. Out of all of them I think the prototypes are the best.
Origin's music sounds more like the original MIDI versions more than the actual prototypes, while being drowned underwater with the high synths turned wayyy up (listen to ice cap for reference, they're absolutely ear-grading)
The S&K collection version of Ice Cap is for me the best version of this theme.
Yes
I was originally planning on giving my detailed thoughts for all the different versions of the songs, but it was really proving to be too much for a single TH-cam comment. Instead, I think my thoughts on Carnival Night Act 1 should provide a good enough idea on my thoughts on the different versions of the songs as a whole.
Prototype: A slower version of the melody, sounding more jazzy and relaxed compared to the other versions. This one's my second favorite of the bunch. It sounds very polished, but it isn't quite as fitting for the stage due it's, for lack of better words, less fun feeling, and sounds odd when put right next to the Act 2 version.
Collection: The more normal version of the melody, which actually doesn't sound too bad for a MIDI. The faster speed and different key actually works in its favor, fitting better with the stage with its fun atmosphere and perfectly matching the Act 2 version of the song.
Complete: Pretty much a perfect one-to-one adaptation of the Collection version, but with Genesis instruments! This one's my personal favorite.
Origins: I have nothing positive to say about this version. It sounds like they tried to do the same thing as with the Complete version, but it sounds like it's being played on a cheap plug-and-play console with how muffled and boring the instrumentation is. I really don't know how they managed to screw it up this badly, I could even make a better version if I wanted to!
Making a beat at 2 am: 0:00
Hearing it in morning: 1:01
It’s amazing how a different tempo speed and key change can transform the overall vibe of a song.
It’s hard to explain the vibes the PC and Origins versions of these tracks evoke. But at best they sound like Fisher Price toy themes, and at worst like someone cranked the fast forward button and dumped the speaker underwater.
cant agree more
When a prototype sound much better:
I think I get it.
Jun Senoue actually didn’t do that bad of a job. He was trying to faithfully recreate the version that was officially released on the Sonic & Knuckles PC Collection and he did make them sound better and more faithful to the Genesis. And the compression was probably an overcompensation in an attempt to make it feel more retro and not a modern creation.
If you play Sonic & Knuckles PC Collection first, then Sonic Origins, then Sonic 3 Complete (a fan interpretation I believe) and then the original prototype versions that actually were for the Genesis but we never heard til recent years, you can see the progression better between the lowest and highest versions of the songs.
Clearly, I think they just didn’t want to use something that was unofficially revealed, and that’s why they went with the PC version and not the Prototype version (which I assume they don’t actually have anyone aside from hidden files that had to be mined.)
It's weird because most of the Sonic 3 soundtrack in Origins is compressed
Jun wasn't trying to recreate the version, because the Origins versions are likely from an earlier build of the game; and the reason why the S&K PC versions sound closer to the Origins versions is because they were transcribed from the same versions Origins is using.
@@ChilliusVGM Nah because like I said, Jun's version sounds more like the PC release of the tracks than what the tracks were meant to sound like on Genesis. Like he made them sound kinda sorta like they were on Genesis too, but with the notes changed to reflect how they sounded on PC because that's the only official release of the songs. It's the only way other fans ever woulda grown up with those tracks until they discovered fan file dumps, hacks and mods.
@@Axxidous lol no, jun did nothing to the songs; they’re firstly recorded off real hardware which senoue wouldn’t likely know a thing about working off hardware anymore after 3D blast was over 20 years ago, and secondly; the origins tracks match the proto ones closer than the PC ones do. Carnival Night Act 1 has entire brass melodies played at a very low octave, omitted from the PC version because the transcribers likely couldn’t hear the melodies over the bass, Launch Base Act 2’s flute instrument change has its entire melody consistent with the prototype (aside from a few notes which were different in that version) that were absolutely butchered in the PC version. the logic behind it is that senoue just grabbed whatever versions they had lying around, which happened to be these versions; he made no changes to them, didnt use the pc version as a base or anything like that as well, if you want to see the only thing jun did himself in origins; the super sonic theme
@@ChilliusVGM Yeah he didn't do anything to the songs. He completely recorded them new. Like a cover. They specifically said that. And that he was going to make them faithful to the original. I'm saying the PC ones are the versions he based the Origins tracks off of. Those are the originals. The only version they have lying around that was officially released.
The Origins tracks match the Prototype versions more because he recorded them in Origins attempting to sound like they were Genesis tracks and the Prototype versions ARE Genesis tracks. But the notes he's playing in Origins are what it sounded like in the PC version. You literally hear it in comparison. The Origins tracks may sound more like the Prototype tracks than the PC versions do, because the Origins tracks are better than the PC versions. But that's it. Otherwise, the Origins tracks still sound more like the PC tracks than they do the Prototype tracks.
i kinda like how the origins ones sound
if it wasnt for the muffled audio quality i probably would like them more, well, for carnival night at least
that seems like the only muffled one, hope they fix this in a patch
The Best ones(my opinion)
Carnival Night Act 1: Prototype
Carnival Night Act 2: Prototype
Ice Cap Act 1: S3 Complete
Ice Cap Act 2: S3 Complete
Launch Base Act 1: Prototype
Launch Base Act 2: Prototype
Remember when we all thought the PC version's tracks sounded sub par. Now, all we want is for it to at least sound *similar* to how it sounded on PC.
The Sonic Origins versions instrument wise sound fine to me, but the issue is moreso that ALL Sonic 3 & Knuckles tracks were muffled, it wasn't just the prototype ones that were. They sound as if they were recorded from a VA0 or VA1 Model 2 Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Model 2 (they are known to have the worst sound quality, I witnessed it myself) Besides that, the Origins versions sound the most official of the bunch.
The muffled sound like this is actually what the VA3 to VA6.8 range of MegaDrive **model 1** hardware revisions sound like, right down to the distinctive ladder effect of the YM2612 (though sometimes too muffled), although much to my horror, I found 6 audio samples in the game, all from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, which were recorded off quite possibly THE worst-sounding MegaDrive hardware revision of all: the VA7 model 1. Everything lined up from the even more muffled FM sound to the unholy amount of distortion, crunch and hiss this revision is notorious for AND very heavy clipping on the positive half of the waveform.
Frankly, the entirety of Sonic Origins' audio is inconsistent, with most of what's in Sonic 3 & Knuckles sounding like proper hardware recordings (I say "most" due to those VA7 model 1 recordings), yet the other games, particularly Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic 2, sound like they mix hardware recordings for the music with completely raw, unfiltered sound effects. It's incredibly jarring because of how aggressive the filter is to begin with on a VA3-VA6.8 MegaDrive model 1 (2.89KHz cutoff!), which creates a really unpleasant mix and horribly piercing sound effects.
I should note this information is based on having poked around the PC version's audio data.
@@Ace9921 Aren't the VA7 Model 1's the same Audio as the VA0, VA1, and VA1.8 Model 2's? But just curious, which songs exactly are recorded from the VA7? I don't have Sonic Origins yet but I am curious about it.
@@bumparchive Actually, no, they're not quite 100% the same. VA7 model 1s have biasing issues due to the dual-transistor chain having limited positive voltage swing, resulting in heavy clipping on one half of the waveform, and this is what gives away the fact that Sonic Origins has recordings from a VA7 model 1. VA0, VA1 and VA1.8 model 2s have a reworked version of the VA7's circuit, but the VA0 sounds worse than the others because Sega, for whatever reason, thought it was a good idea to add extra gain on the circuit, resulting in louder sound than VA1 and VA1.8, but with worse distortion, and in some cases, pretty severe noise.
As for which particular tracks in Sonic Origins are recorded off a VA7 model 1, it's these:
-Title (Sonic & Knuckles)
-Knuckles Appears (Sonic & Knuckles)
-Final Eggman
-Power Up (Sonic & Knuckles) - Invincibility
-1UP (Sonic & Knuckles) - Extra Life
-All Clear (Sonic & Knuckles) - Victory
If you pay close attention, you'll notice these 6 songs are more muffled than every other song in the game and distorted like a VA7 model 1 (though curiously, the distortion present in Sonic Origins is actually not to the same degree as my own personal stock VA7 Genesis model 1, which has significantly worse distortion, and I would assume this is due to the system used for Sonic Origins having different op-amps than the BA10324AF in my console, and I would assume those op-amps to be NEC's uPC324G).
There is so much inconsistency in the sound design with Sonic Origins like I mentioned in my initial response to your comment. I'm going to take it upon myself to rework the sounds and music from every single game in this compilation using actual hardware recordings because I frankly don't see Sega doing it themselves. I'll use a VA5 MegaDrive model 1 across the board, though I will also include some bonus mods for Sonic 3 based on Sonic & Knuckles Collection's OPL3 and MIDI soundtrack using an older SoundBlaster 16 model for the former and a Roland SC-88Pro for the latter, and some extras from other MIDI boxes and OPL3 clones.
I know the sonic & knuckles collection is pretty terrible, but its version of ice cap zone legit sounds better than the origins version imo.
Imo, it's better than hard times.
I say it in part as I love "christmas-y" music.
Too bad the cleaner version of that track got taken down.
Thanks a lot bro very nice video
The lesson learned is, don't wish on monkey's paws - instead, take matters into your own hands.
Though I will say, assuming that the origins songs are from an earlier prototype than the prototype songs, that *is* interesting. But the way they were released was wrong and ruined their reputation, and its basically impossible to get people to see it any other way.
Sorry but i like the origins
I like all of the music.
Sorry but I don't care about your answer
Ice Cap I think got the best hand overall with Launch Base getting a pretty good one too. Ice Cap 1 and Launch Base 1's best tracks I dare say are from S&K collection! But no matter how good most versions of the beta Ice Cap's tracks are, they cant beat hard times sadly
I grew up with the PC version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles and I never knew anything different about this music. My mind was blown when I found out about the differences between the prototype and actual final versions in the original game. Even though I have such bad memories of that stupid barrel in Carnival Night act 2, it's still one of my favorite tracks in the whole game. I will forever be sad that prototype Carnival Night 1 and 2 aren't the official ones we got. They're both bangers.
I agree. They are better than MJ's
Oh my god so good explained thank you!!!!
The complete versions actually fit in more than the actual official ones my god. Like had we gotten something like that I'd accept them even if i wouldn't be satisfied.
99.9%
honestly, although i like the final version, i agree
I always thought these acts had the weakest tracks anyway, so I don’t mind them changing them just wish the new tracks were a bit more polished.
Really the only Zone Jun Senoue really miss the mark was Carnival Night Zone but otherwise he actually did a good job with Ice Cap and Launch Base Zones. That being said, The prototype versions are still superior.
He also screwed up the Super Sonic theme.
@@autosaver I thought it was fine. It's better than hearing the 5 second invincibility theme nonstop. With only the Sonic 4 instrumentation being out of place.
He screwed up Launch Base Act 2 pretty bad by drowning out the lead instrument.
It wasn't him, though. They used prototype versions that were even older than the 1103 versions. Because he did originally work on those, Sega marketed it as though it was recent work. It's misleading.
Man, even in the pc version launch base act 1 flippin rocks
I genuinely believe, prototype version is waaaay better.
At least in act 1. I like the act 2 MIDI from S&K collection and the complete hack made it incredibly good.
I can't understand why did Sonic Team decided it was a good idea use a MIDI format into a Genesis Soundfont
I think you are a bit confused. Both the genesis and the PC port use midi, a data file.
Difference is in this video, genesis used midi that was made for an fm synthisizer whilst the PC one used general midi.
FM synthesis midi was made specifically for sound cards that have... An fm synthesis.
General midi was for the PC users who don't have a soundcard with an fm synthisizer.
The real question should be: why would a game that was released on a cd have audio in midi?
Btw, for the PC release, there was an option for fm synthisizer midi. However... The sound isn't very... Sophisticated.
Apparently the origins tracks are from an EVEN EARLIER prototype than the one we have access to… which may explain why they’re more… Sonic 2 sounding…
Why didn't they just rip the Prototype versions for Origins? They sound more finalized than what we ended up getting. I'd even take the PC versions instead
Is it sad that I like the sonic origins version of carnival zone 1 as oppose to every other level?
why is the carnival night theme actually like really good
Love how PCN is the only one in that beautiful ass key
Bro Carnival Night Act 2 Proto 🔥😩
Amazing how much of a difference execution can make. These are all the same song, just done differently. IMO, Origins generally did a very good job, but the prototypes general feel most right to me. I'm just so used to the Jackson songs from the original release, though, hearing anything else just feels wrong to me.
Also, my god, the Sonic & Knuckles versions are so bad. They're just so harsh. Going from the prototype to the collection has me throwing my head back from shock.
I understand Origins had to replace the music but Jesus all the other versions sound better. Like really… hard out here being a Sega fan.
The only one I haven’t got an issue is with ice cap it script sounds sick
Sonic 3 AIR/Complete is the better way to play S3&K without playing Origins.
Agreed.
AIR is a "modern" way to play it whilst complete is the old school way to play it.
To top it off, they are free and require little storage, espesually 3 complete.
At least 3 Complete has ALL your save files from S3&K(except for Knuckles' in regular S3)
@@omegasurge3277sonic and knuckles does not
3 complete was a way to deliver the game to all sonic fans but because of a McDonald's commercial about the game split sonic 3 into two separate games. Thanks Sega
My only problem with the Origins music is that it sounds a little "muffled," if that makes any sense
No one is going to talk about Ice Cap 1 on PC being a banger?
It's beutiful 😍😍😍
my rankings for each song
carnival night 1
prototype: Unlike all other remixes, it feels like a party which the theme of the zone
sonic 3 complete: it is great but still has the bad feellings
pc: it manage to ruin it first
origins: they made a mistake telling jun to remix th pc tracks
carnival night 2
prototype: even more celebrating
sonic 3 complete: it feels so chilling, this makes a good thing to hear
pc: nice but horible instruments
origins: weak, lifeless and horible mistake
ice cap 1
prototype: this sreams ice
pc: manages to mic icy and funk music
origins: it is pretty solid, only mistake being the main motif
sonic 3 complete: the instruments ruin everything
ice cap 2
prototype: this so much nice times
origins: identical to the proto version, only in second place due to the other jun songs
pc: same feel as act 1
sonic 3 complete: it manages to be worse than jun's remaster
launch base 1
(complete later)
Nov 1993 prototype is the BEST
Origins plus is better
i mean, origins recreation were decent, they were faithful at the least but i still wondered why they didnt use the original prototype one
I like MJ Version and Prototype Version
origins sounds good not gonna lie
Wish it had a mashup at the end
Whenever I play Sonic 3 A.I.R I keep the songs on the prototype because they're more cooler than the final versions of them
I only use for whole carnival night and ice cap zone act 1.
Prototype and original released ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Origins midi remake: 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
I only just noticed something really damning about the PC Tracks. They have a more complete drum line (note the actual symbols which most proto songs lack) which the Proto/Origins track lack. I believe this might be a big part of why they sound so unfinished. The biggest culprit of this is probably IceCap 1
Ok, I'm gonna rank this songs
CNZ Act 1 Proto: Sounds very happy and whismical, very fitting for a carnival-based zone 10/10
CNZ Act 1 S&K PC Collection: Sounds very retro, and I do enjoy the retro songs! However, it doesn't beat the prototype version 8/10
CNZ Act 1 S3C: A very good port of the PC version to the Genesis' soundchip! 9/10
CNZ Act 1 Origins: A perfect example of how to ruin a good proto music 1/10
CNZ Act 2 Proto: A perfect warm-up for the next level of a carnival-based zone! 9/10
CNZ Act 2 S&K Collection: A very good MIDI conversion of the prototype music 9/10
CNZ Act 2 S3C: Pure ear candy for your ears! 10/10
CNZ Act 2 Origins: No, just no! Possibly the worst conversion of a Sonic song 0/10
ICZ Act 1 Proto:Basically a song that defines an ice level very well, but I think the final version is better 9/10
ICZ Act 1 S&K Collection: One, if not, the best MIDI conversion I've heard of a Sonic song 10/10
ICZ Act 1 S3C: A solid conversion of the PC version that manages to cover it the correct way 9/10
ICZ Act 1 Origins: The only Origins track that gets a not so low score, considerating it sounds similar to the prototype one but muffled 5/10
ICZ Act 2 Proto: Basically a perfect example of how to make a good ice-themed song 10/10
ICZ Act 2 S&K Collection: A decent MIDI conversion of a ice-themed song 7/10
ICZ Act 2 S3C: Same as Act 1 9/10
ICZ Act 2 Origins: Same feeling as Act 1 5/10
LBZ Act 1 Prototype: When it comes to Launch Base, it's very hard to rank, but I can define this one as a very good sounding song and fitting for a level like this 8/10
LBZ Act 1 S&K Collection: A very good done MIDI conversion of the prototype song 9/10
LBZ Act 1 S3C: A solid and fresh Genesis cover of the PC version, very good done 9/10
LBZ Act 1 Origins: What on Mobius is this ass sounding monstrosity?! This thing can make your ears bleed in seconds if you use headphones! 0/10
LBZ Act 2 Prototype: Basically the one that should be used in the final version 10/10
LBZ Act 2 S&K Collection: A solid MIDI conversion that does it's job pretty well 7/10
LBZ Act 2 S3C: This one has been ruined by Origins and I can't forgive that, because this one is basically one of the best prototype song conversions I've ever heard 10/10
LBZ Act 2 Origins: Basically an example of how to fuck up a masterpiece of a cover 1/10
Every zone best to worst
carnival night
.Sonic 3 prototype (it sounds the clearest)
.sonic3 complete
.sonic and knuckles collection
.sonic origins carnival night zone act 1 and 2 (my ears fell cramped listening to it)
Ice cap zone
.Sonic origins (it sounds perfect compared to the other versions listed still doesn’t beat the original though but what does)
.Sonic and knuckles collection
.Sonic 3 complete
.sonic 3 complete (I don’t like the instrumentation it feels like my ears are being stabbed)
Launch base
.sonic and knuckles collection (it has the best energy)
.sonic 3 complete
.sonic 3 prototype
.sonic origins (just like carnival night it sounds muffled)
That’s all hope you like my opinion but any opinion is valid
Best tracks are from the original Sonic 3 (without Knuckles) from Genesis. Unfortunately, they are not in this video…
Your taste in music is so awful.
you are not getting them back
Origins basically used both acts of ice cap (1993) for just ACT 1 ARE YOU KIDDING ME SEGA
My problem with the Origins music is that it all sounds dull and muffled, making the music less impactful as a result. Overall the actual prototype tracks are the best of the group.
Proto Ver: THIS IS FIRE 🔥🔥🔥
PC Ver: WASH MY EARS OUT, I feel like a clown composed this 🤡🤡🤡
S3 Complete: Eh it’s ok 😐
Origins: THIS IS TRASH 🤢🤮
in sonic 3 Air you change favorite protoype (las normalitas no las aurrinadas que hizo origins) o released
The S3 prototypes for Carnival Night are by far the best for that level.
Bruh og proto carnival night sounds so good why did they change it :(
Copyright
Origins is more like an isolated sound you’d hear from outside mixed with clapping hands in a hurry
I wouldn't have such an issue with these origin versions if they weren't so got damn muffled lol. like they sound filtered to hell and back.
this whole ost situation reminds me of guilty gear X2. there's 2 ost's for it. the main one and the Korean reload version. I feel if this was more like those, aka cool alt themes that sound good but are completely different... then I'd be more OK with these prototype tracks in general. but I don't like a single one as much as their original.
I'm down for new takes on things musically. just wish I liked these more. they're OK at best. but music is stupidly subjective. everyone misses ice cap the most and I only ever thought that song was OK too. I'm hurting without carnival night tho lol. and that's seeming to be the one people miss the least. meaning everyone's got different opinions on all this. even if I disagree, I'm always fascinated by music takes.
I’ve been playing this game my whole life and I just can’t accept this shit.