FINALLY bro!!!!😅 I told you many times for SMART bms.. but active balancer makes the same work with a bms when we use bms only for balance... I have connectors to both of my packs.. if a bms get down i will connect the active balancer and balance the pack much much better than a bms!!!😘
26:04 my understanding is that even if you have equal cells, you still need the ability to balance. Due to the nature of the chemical makeup of batteries also the variations in the cell build. The possibility of the cells discharging at different rates is still there. So, in my opinion even with all the matching at the beginning you still need the ability to balance.
THE CONVERSATIONS IN THE COMMENT'S SHOULD BE LIVE GUYS PLEASE COME TOGETHER AND MAKE BILLIONS WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES BUT WHEN( WE ARE ONE) NOBODY CAN STOP US!!!!!
Should make your batteries last much longer as the low cells and high cells won't get damaged. Might even get some more range out of it. They look like such a pain to install though...like a big mess of spaghetti lol
Amazing video Tommy !!! I send you a message by text with some tips. I am very excited to see you building your son bike with the JP40. I will be sending that next week.
Also if you use a bms make sure you use a fuse before and after bms I seen many brand name batteries catch on fire and it was caused most of the time by the transistors shorting out on big loads 👍🏻
My active balancers do it at up to 10A, the more power your cells are the higher amp balancing you want, particularly under heavy discharge loads. Check your deviation under heavy load discharge, if the active balancing takes too long (a good battery should equalize in seconds as you release discharge and battery state is static) then you know which group is defective. over 100mv is perfectly unacceptable for a high performance ebike. All your cells should arrive with less than:100mv deviation. If not, it's a sign the supplier is not serious and may sell you second grade material. Also, in Europe, cells must be shipped under 80% charge. We can't ship batteries fully charged for obvious reasons
Great vid Tommy, It's great to see you always progressing, and improving how you build your e-bike batteries 👍 I have a question regarding balancing.. As I don't know if my battery's BMS has a built in cell balancer - is it possible to buy a battery balancer that just plugs into a wall socket (UK plug) and then the battery, as to balance the cells in the same way the app shows it being done in this vid? Pardon my ignorance (if I'm wrong) but I'm only aware of leaving the battery on charge (after fully charging) for around 24 hours to balance the battery's cells. Thanks for any reply/information 👍⚡
You can use the existing balance leads to connect an active balancer temporarly. I recommend to do it twice a year on a new battery. You should not have to do it as a regular customer, it's usually done by bike shop maintenance guy. Specifically on big brand bikes like Bosch, Shimano or others...
@nicod974 Oh mine's a self build E-bike with a 52v20ah battery I bought off eBay UK, I'm guessing to do what you're saying would involve opening up the battery case, as this is something I want to totally avoid doing really (I've no experience with battery building you see).. But thanks for the reply anyway 👍
@@E-bikeguy These tabless cells look very interesting, but from what I'm watching now all the other components involved in building using these cells will need improving. Apparently this is due to the crazy high output these tabless cells can put out. Guys saying a 22s9p pack build (for a surron) can output 32,610w continuous and 48,510w peak... A 48.5kw Surron ...wow! 22s9p pack (9p x 45a = 405a cont. 9p x 70a = 630a peak!) But guy's also saying an "ANT 220/550 BMS" can't handle it though... As I've never built a battery Tommy, what do you make of this? Vid I'm watching on TH-cam is by "CoolWatts" titled "TABLESS POWERHOUSE 21700 CELLS // AMPACE JP40 AND EVE".th-cam.com/video/fpl25iOBzSA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BYKYU4J6vNykW8f-
My bms does not balance. Could I just unplug my balance wires and then plug into an active balancer. I'm thinking of just balancing periodically. Thanks
If you need an active balancing running all the time then your battery wasn't built very well. You should only have to run a balancer as maintenance for top balancing
@@E-bikeguy I keep the balancer turned off on my jk BMS. I only turn it on every once in a while to top balance when needed . I capacity test all my cells before the build and run those numbers thru the repacker program. My batteries are built balanced.
@E-bikeguy you don't use BMS (jk has 2amp balanceing )and just learned about external active Balancers. I bet you don't capacity test your cells before building your batteries too. Get educated. Laugh at yourself.
Cells connected in parallel will EQUALIZE automatically, just like if you set a row of mason jars on a level shelf, connecting the bottom of each jar with a tube and the top of each jar with a tube, the liquid level will automatically seek its own height. Now imagine what would happen if instead of all these jars being on the same shelf. You put each jar on a shelf which is higher. If you connected the top and bottom of those jars, all the liquid would immediately run down to the lowest jar, because it would be a short circuit. With old lead acid cells you were allowed to over charge the battery and let them overflow into the next cell in series, this is called an equalization charge. But AGM and lithium-ion cells will be destroyed if you try this method. So for jars on different shelves, you must individually measure the level inside each jar, and with PASSIVE BALANCE you just open a tiny drain on the highest cells and let that out. In a BMS it connects that cell group to a bleed resistor and turns the excess energy into heat. If you have ACTIVE BALANCING, it will take energy from the highest cells and dump some energy into the nearest cells in series, and then those cells dump into it’s nearest cells, until eventually it reaches the cells with lowest voltage. The net result is you transfer energy from the highest voltage cell group to the lowest voltage cell group. So in short, cells connected in parallel will EQUALIZE automatically, but cells connected in series must be BALANCED.
@imho7250 great information brother like always everything you mentioned is absolutely 💯 you can put it no better and you made a great example so people like us can get a better picture of what you talking about
so it just put the batt on the same volts, so if 1 cell is more it will put it to another cell. and then charge just with a charger right? this thing is not a charger right? only a balancer. so this one you have to connect/solder on all series like a bms right ? then i get i, i mean then i understand. nice.
A lot of bad advice in this video and here you are agsin, you don't really know how to properly use a piece of equipment and you are now an expert showing everyone how to use it. Just like you did when you got a Fardriver. Pump the brakes and actually learn to use something properly then make a video. You didn't even select the correct battery type. Lithium ion is not LFP. Lithium iron phosphate has completely different voltages than lithium ion. It didn't better in this case but you didn't know that. LFP cuts off at 2.0 and tops out at 3.65 then settles at 3.35. You don't use a BMS with your lipos and then you said they were puffy. Gee I wonder why they are puffy. Use a balance charger for crying out loud. You are probably over charging cells since there is nothing stopping your highest cells from continuing to charge past 4.2 since you are just charging to an overall pack voltage. Heat causes puffy batteries, they get hot and they off gas until they vent. You are greatly shortening the life of the battery by not balance charging and you are creating a potential fire situation. If you would like to see pictures of what a lithium fire caused by careless charging looks like I can show you some of my rental property that my genius tenant burned down. You are being careless and teaching other people your bad habits. Use a BMS dude. Bypass it to your controller but have a BMS to charge through so your cells stay balanced and then you don't need to use a balancer. Most good smart BMS also have an active balance mode that you only turn on wheb your cells are out. 800mv out is way way out. Usually the cut off is between 200-300mv delta v. When you initially set up a BMS you have to get the cells within 0.020 of each other to activate it. The active balancer is a tool you use when someone brings you a battery and says their BMS is broken because their battery won't turn on. No that's just the BMS working. That is it's job, because your cells being that far apart causes a hazardous potentially fire causing situation. This is when you use an active balancer. Once they trip you have to get everything balanced again or you are just going to have ongoing issues. Yes you can apply a charger and it will kick back on but it will sound di the same thing because you didn't get the delta v, the difference from your highest a d lowest groups down far enough below the trigger point. Grab a BMS, it doesn't have to be up to the battery amps to your controller if you are bypassing it for discharge only but don't buy the tiniest one because it needs to be able to handle the voltage it burns off when the highest group reaches max. Passive balancing is the normal way it operates. The cell reaches 4.2 and then it burns off the voltage that would still be going to the battery off using the mosfets and big resistors on the PCB. It expresses the excess power as heat. Batteries don't like to be hot but it would be getting even hotter if the cell was being overcharged like you are probably doing to your puffy lipos. It sucks when your house burns down. I assure you that you do not want that to happen. It is awful. You're old enough to know better. Don't wait until something that could easily be avoided happens to makes you realize it really isn't that much trouble to do things the right way. The safe way. You have a lot of people in that house, let's not bbq them. Plus you would need a whole bunch of Frank's. Just saying.
@jornmulder Which is why I told him he could bypass it. And yes they do sell those and much higher amperage than that BTW. You can get BMS that are for 100s of cells in series. I think you need to learn some stuff. Ebikes are not the only EVs you know. You don't have to have just one BMS either. You can run BMS in series as long as the mosfets are rated for the voltage of the combined pack. If you have a soldering iron and the ability to use it you can just upgrade the existing mosfets on a PCB. Aside from EVs there are solar charging systems for homes that are only 58v that are good for over 1000 amps. There are battery back up systems for things like hospitals that 8 assure draw quite a bit more than that. This secret information is cleverly hidden in the Google machine. If you're going to be a smart ass maybe lean more towards smart next time.
@@jornmuldershort story long, yes, ANT makes a 420a continues/1050a peak BMS. If installed properly, ebike guy would burn up 1000 motors before that ANT shut down on thermal overheat from high current. The 800a dc limit of the Fardriver 961800 will NEVER exceed the ANT capability before any QS273 40H turns into a ball of molten copper. If EBIKE guy gets the 961800 Track edition with 1350a DC limit, the 420a/1050a ANT still would not be the first thing to burn. But for something who legitimately needed a 961800 Track Version, they would need a stronger BMS. At the rate ANT is increasing power, they will have thar version later this year if enough people buy a track version fardriver. A few years ago there was a legit excuse not to use a BMS on high power ebikes because they were very expensive. Now an ANT suitable for a standard 961800 cost $150.
I did my research, brother, so make a video saying that I'm wrong because lfp is the selection that given to me by my supplier next time I'll be more thorough with it because frankly you not understanding.
@zentechnician i hate when a wannabe battery experts get on here and try to correct me when i done my research before I make a video ill try to explain myself just a little better next time thank you
FINALLY bro!!!!😅
I told you many times for SMART bms.. but active balancer makes the same work with a bms when we use bms only for balance...
I have connectors to both of my packs.. if a bms get down i will connect the active balancer and balance the pack much much better than a bms!!!😘
It's all about growth man. Someone at some point told him and in return told you.
26:04 my understanding is that even if you have equal cells, you still need the ability to balance. Due to the nature of the chemical makeup of batteries also the variations in the cell build. The possibility of the cells discharging at different rates is still there. So, in my opinion even with all the matching at the beginning you still need the ability to balance.
I always run a bms on my builds. Those ones that have the Bluetooth on them so you can connect the XiaoXiang app.
yeah JBD BMS working great for me too
THE CONVERSATIONS IN THE COMMENT'S SHOULD BE LIVE GUYS PLEASE COME TOGETHER AND MAKE BILLIONS WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES BUT WHEN( WE ARE ONE) NOBODY CAN STOP US!!!!!
I can't wait for this on my build 😎💪 you're always improving and i love to see it!
Yes it will have a active balancer if you want
@E-bikeguy absolutely! The health monitoring of those cells is a priority 💯
@cocoabiscuits ok you got it
Should make your batteries last much longer as the low cells and high cells won't get damaged. Might even get some more range out of it. They look like such a pain to install though...like a big mess of spaghetti lol
@AaronHendu lol I can already see the difference
@@E-bikeguywas it a pain in ass to install? Or is it more like a plug in play?
@bdub3871 not really it's easier that a bms to install
I love this man
This is great information i didnt know about these.thank you once again ebikeguy
You’re welcome! Yes I didn't know till a few days ago lol had to let the people know
that 4A is now for € 86,99 euro
from €119,16 euro its 26% sale. good 5 star rating it got. nice
Amazing video Tommy !!! I send you a message by text with some tips. I am very excited to see you building your son bike with the JP40. I will be sending that next week.
Also if you use a bms make sure you use a fuse before and after bms I seen many brand name batteries catch on fire and it was caused most of the time by the transistors shorting out on big loads 👍🏻
My active balancers do it at up to 10A, the more power your cells are the higher amp balancing you want, particularly under heavy discharge loads. Check your deviation under heavy load discharge, if the active balancing takes too long (a good battery should equalize in seconds as you release discharge and battery state is static) then you know which group is defective. over 100mv is perfectly unacceptable for a high performance ebike. All your cells should arrive with less than:100mv deviation. If not, it's a sign the supplier is not serious and may sell you second grade material.
Also, in Europe, cells must be shipped under 80% charge. We can't ship batteries fully charged for obvious reasons
Thanks bro you can reach out anytime love what your doing keep up the good work😊
Thank you brother 💯 you saved me a ton of headache
Dude, This is why you run a smart bms like ANT, has built in smart balance.
Yes but slow at balancing
@@E-bikeguy When its not in use its balancing. Balance charge and discharge. there is a setting in the app.
Good job Tommy good 👍 LOL I hope you do a video test ride to see 👀 is there anything different in performance wize 😮
I will but I been really busy
is LFP maybe Li Fe Po?? just guessing ... it should balance.. and when connected to charger all should have 4.2 per cell. not?
Great vid Tommy,
It's great to see you always progressing, and improving how you build your e-bike batteries 👍
I have a question regarding balancing..
As I don't know if my battery's BMS has a built in cell balancer - is it possible to buy a battery balancer that just plugs into a wall socket (UK plug) and then the battery, as to balance the cells in the same way the app shows it being done in this vid?
Pardon my ignorance (if I'm wrong) but I'm only aware of leaving the battery on charge (after fully charging) for around 24 hours to balance the battery's cells.
Thanks for any reply/information 👍⚡
You can use the existing balance leads to connect an active balancer temporarly. I recommend to do it twice a year on a new battery. You should not have to do it as a regular customer, it's usually done by bike shop maintenance guy. Specifically on big brand bikes like Bosch, Shimano or others...
@nicod974 Oh mine's a self build E-bike with a 52v20ah battery I bought off eBay UK, I'm guessing to do what you're saying would involve opening up the battery case, as this is something I want to totally avoid doing really (I've no experience with battery building you see)..
But thanks for the reply anyway 👍
I believe so I'll do more research
@@E-bikeguy 👍⚡
@@E-bikeguy These tabless cells look very interesting, but from what I'm watching now all the other components involved in building using these cells will need improving. Apparently this is due to the crazy high output these tabless cells can put out. Guys saying a 22s9p pack build (for a surron) can output 32,610w continuous and 48,510w peak...
A 48.5kw Surron ...wow!
22s9p pack (9p x 45a = 405a cont. 9p x 70a = 630a peak!) But guy's also saying an "ANT 220/550 BMS" can't handle it though...
As I've never built a battery Tommy, what do you make of this?
Vid I'm watching on TH-cam is by "CoolWatts" titled "TABLESS POWERHOUSE 21700 CELLS // AMPACE JP40 AND EVE".th-cam.com/video/fpl25iOBzSA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BYKYU4J6vNykW8f-
jp40 nice!
what is the channel of the guy with the BMS videos? your transcript shows 500 DIY but i can't find it.
@@1DumbSquirrel I just put his link in the description at the bottom
@@E-bikeguy thanks
My bms does not balance. Could I just unplug my balance wires and then plug into an active balancer. I'm thinking of just balancing periodically. Thanks
@@justinshields7501 i believe you can i see them work in conjunction with a bms
change batt type... if LFP is really lifepo then sure it drops cells down to 3.6 😂 ...connect charger and set it to lipo (4.2V not 3.6V)
If you need an active balancing running all the time then your battery wasn't built very well.
You should only have to run a balancer as maintenance for top balancing
🤣🤣🤣🤣 what do you think a bms do?
@@E-bikeguy I keep the balancer turned off on my jk BMS. I only turn it on every once in a while to top balance when needed .
I capacity test all my cells before the build and run those numbers thru the repacker program.
My batteries are built balanced.
Where do we get a original molicel battery 5000mah
im from Morocco
@@mohammedelfajri5113 18650 battery store.com or aliexpress
@@E-bikeguy give him my email adress, i got supplies
Having one of these running full time is stupid. It can hide a failing group and continue to feed it amp untill it catches fire
@@joshkelly3743 🤣🤣🤣
@E-bikeguy you don't use BMS (jk has 2amp balanceing )and just learned about external active Balancers.
I bet you don't capacity test your cells before building your batteries too.
Get educated.
Laugh at yourself.
why dont those battrys ballance them selve when they are connected together i confused ,can you exsplain that or did i miss it, thanks man great vid
Cells connected in parallel will EQUALIZE automatically, just like if you set a row of mason jars on a level shelf, connecting the bottom of each jar with a tube and the top of each jar with a tube, the liquid level will automatically seek its own height.
Now imagine what would happen if instead of all these jars being on the same shelf. You put each jar on a shelf which is higher. If you connected the top and bottom of those jars, all the liquid would immediately run down to the lowest jar, because it would be a short circuit.
With old lead acid cells you were allowed to over charge the battery and let them overflow into the next cell in series, this is called an equalization charge. But AGM and lithium-ion cells will be destroyed if you try this method.
So for jars on different shelves, you must individually measure the level inside each jar, and with PASSIVE BALANCE you just open a tiny drain on the highest cells and let that out. In a BMS it connects that cell group to a bleed resistor and turns the excess energy into heat.
If you have ACTIVE BALANCING, it will take energy from the highest cells and dump some energy into the nearest cells in series, and then those cells dump into it’s nearest cells, until eventually it reaches the cells with lowest voltage. The net result is you transfer energy from the highest voltage cell group to the lowest voltage cell group.
So in short, cells connected in parallel will EQUALIZE automatically, but cells connected in series must be BALANCED.
@etrikenorthernpike yes I will do a video on this coming week
@imho7250 great information brother like always everything you mentioned is absolutely 💯 you can put it no better and you made a great example so people like us can get a better picture of what you talking about
so it just put the batt on the same volts, so if 1 cell is more it will put it to another cell.
and then charge just with a charger right? this thing is not a charger right? only a balancer.
so this one you have to connect/solder on all series like a bms right ? then i get i, i mean then i understand. nice.
Yes it takes voltage from a higher cells and transfer that voltage to the cells that needs it
now people need to know how to solder this on the battery pack right ? or is that eazy ?
They do but it's just like a bms
Can you add it to me battery?
Heck yeah bro I can
A lot of bad advice in this video and here you are agsin, you don't really know how to properly use a piece of equipment and you are now an expert showing everyone how to use it. Just like you did when you got a Fardriver. Pump the brakes and actually learn to use something properly then make a video. You didn't even select the correct battery type. Lithium ion is not LFP. Lithium iron phosphate has completely different voltages than lithium ion. It didn't better in this case but you didn't know that. LFP cuts off at 2.0 and tops out at 3.65 then settles at 3.35.
You don't use a BMS with your lipos and then you said they were puffy. Gee I wonder why they are puffy. Use a balance charger for crying out loud. You are probably over charging cells since there is nothing stopping your highest cells from continuing to charge past 4.2 since you are just charging to an overall pack voltage. Heat causes puffy batteries, they get hot and they off gas until they vent. You are greatly shortening the life of the battery by not balance charging and you are creating a potential fire situation. If you would like to see pictures of what a lithium fire caused by careless charging looks like I can show you some of my rental property that my genius tenant burned down. You are being careless and teaching other people your bad habits.
Use a BMS dude. Bypass it to your controller but have a BMS to charge through so your cells stay balanced and then you don't need to use a balancer. Most good smart BMS also have an active balance mode that you only turn on wheb your cells are out. 800mv out is way way out. Usually the cut off is between 200-300mv delta v. When you initially set up a BMS you have to get the cells within 0.020 of each other to activate it.
The active balancer is a tool you use when someone brings you a battery and says their BMS is broken because their battery won't turn on. No that's just the BMS working. That is it's job, because your cells being that far apart causes a hazardous potentially fire causing situation. This is when you use an active balancer. Once they trip you have to get everything balanced again or you are just going to have ongoing issues. Yes you can apply a charger and it will kick back on but it will sound di the same thing because you didn't get the delta v, the difference from your highest a d lowest groups down far enough below the trigger point. Grab a BMS, it doesn't have to be up to the battery amps to your controller if you are bypassing it for discharge only but don't buy the tiniest one because it needs to be able to handle the voltage it burns off when the highest group reaches max. Passive balancing is the normal way it operates. The cell reaches 4.2 and then it burns off the voltage that would still be going to the battery off using the mosfets and big resistors on the PCB. It expresses the excess power as heat. Batteries don't like to be hot but it would be getting even hotter if the cell was being overcharged like you are probably doing to your puffy lipos.
It sucks when your house burns down. I assure you that you do not want that to happen. It is awful. You're old enough to know better. Don't wait until something that could easily be avoided happens to makes you realize it really isn't that much trouble to do things the right way. The safe way.
You have a lot of people in that house, let's not bbq them. Plus you would need a whole bunch of Frank's. Just saying.
long story, short = you got a bms for 600 amps ? bet not. haha
@jornmulder Which is why I told him he could bypass it. And yes they do sell those and much higher amperage than that BTW. You can get BMS that are for 100s of cells in series. I think you need to learn some stuff. Ebikes are not the only EVs you know. You don't have to have just one BMS either. You can run BMS in series as long as the mosfets are rated for the voltage of the combined pack. If you have a soldering iron and the ability to use it you can just upgrade the existing mosfets on a PCB.
Aside from EVs there are solar charging systems for homes that are only 58v that are good for over 1000 amps. There are battery back up systems for things like hospitals that 8 assure draw quite a bit more than that.
This secret information is cleverly hidden in the Google machine. If you're going to be a smart ass maybe lean more towards smart next time.
@@jornmuldershort story long, yes, ANT makes a 420a continues/1050a peak BMS. If installed properly, ebike guy would burn up 1000 motors before that ANT shut down on thermal overheat from high current. The 800a dc limit of the Fardriver 961800 will NEVER exceed the ANT capability before any QS273 40H turns into a ball of molten copper.
If EBIKE guy gets the 961800 Track edition with 1350a DC limit, the 420a/1050a ANT still would not be the first thing to burn. But for something who legitimately needed a 961800 Track Version, they would need a stronger BMS. At the rate ANT is increasing power, they will have thar version later this year if enough people buy a track version fardriver.
A few years ago there was a legit excuse not to use a BMS on high power ebikes because they were very expensive. Now an ANT suitable for a standard 961800 cost $150.
I did my research, brother, so make a video saying that I'm wrong because lfp is the selection that given to me by my supplier next time I'll be more thorough with it because frankly you not understanding.
@zentechnician i hate when a wannabe battery experts get on here and try to correct me when i done my research before I make a video ill try to explain myself just a little better next time thank you