Doctor Who vs Women
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- With the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who, its time to ask, is Doctor Who sexist? Or am it the feminism?
Video by Ada Černoša and Verity Ritchie
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I do like/prefer the idea that the reason the Doctor keeps taking along young female companions is that he misses his granddaughter.
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agreed. but honestly at this point i cant even be mad about the doctor/rose thing because it was completely asexual and just sweet (i am personally not a big fan of them tbh) and then his dynamic with donna as just besties basically was a nice change. she kept him in check and they were just silly (no surprise shes my favourite companion) and then moffat decided its time to life out his kinks on television..
@@thj_5046 Wouldn't say asexual because the doctor couldn't bare the thought outliving the women who he had feelings for. Its why he got together with River Song and his human meta-crisis clone who ages like a human and can't regenerate actually got with Rose... the later was a near perfect replica of the 10th doctor minus the human DNA.
Overhaul the people complaining about attractive companions just screams insecurity and a new level of pathetic, so please grow up.
@@george_3252asexual≠aromatic
@@masterofmoss1591 what about it?
"This guy heard of feminism and the glass ceiling and his question was, 'What if feminists were standing on it in a short skirt?'. Absolutely marvelous.
Weird that this comment got 676 like and nobody before that happened made a 666 joke
Well to be fair Amy was above a litereal glass ceiling this time ;)
@@Wonkothenormal ...yes, that was the whole joke.
@@Wonkothenormal I think the point was, there were so many ways to show that Rory found his wife captivatingly sexy without putting her in a position where he would be looking straight up her skirt, and on a glass ceiling, of all things.
I have never watched this series but will do so now to enjoy this stuff
"You're a beautiful woman... probably."
Is probably the best line ever aired on television.
I started with Eccleston's rendition of the Doctor, but goddamn if Tom Baker wasn't utterly perfect.
Also the 4th Doctor: Making contact with an alien race is an immensely skilled and delicate operation! Calls for tact and exp- what would [Sarah Jane] know about it?
K-9: She is prettier than you, Master.
Doctor: _beat_ Is she?
Damn, I feel that line so much
Figuring out that Moffat is a masochist who wants a dommy mommy to punish him really explains SO much of his era of DW.
took me this long to realise what everyone meant by "DW" in every single writing 😭
That explains missy
His version of Irene Adler makes so much sense now
@nicola7021 definitely, cos his update was a real downgrade from what Conan Doyle wrote
Amy and Bill just about could be real people, and I buy them as characters when I watch the show, but River and Clara don’t talk like any women that exist in real life that I’ve met and they just seem so much like wish fulfilment characters written by a guy, that it kind of ruins them.
“you’re a beautiful woman, probably” what an underrated line, the delivery is just 👌👌👌👌
He didn't talk about how Capaldi has no idea about Clara's appearance. He doesn't know whether or not she has her makeup on. He doesn't recognise her standing next to Strax because they're similar heights. He doesn't see the age on her face, because she's always the same Clara to him. To Capaldi's Doctor, Clara is the person, not the appearance. Surely this should be worth talking about.
@@JohnFromAccounting it is covered in the portion where he says the Capaldi run was an effort to fix these glaring issues, except by constantly ham handedly doing it at 11 he may as well have been screaming, "is this enough?" Into the camera. Its the same issue, he cant write a femenist perspective because he has a cartoonish view of female empowerment. The capaldi run is akin to stephen colbert saying he has no idea what race anyone is because he cant see color.
@@JohnFromAccountingdoesn't fit the narrative of the video essay 😙 It is a great point though
@@JohnFromAccounting I think that might have been Moffat trying to counteract the accusations of misogyny. …or trying to improve his writing. Depends on how optimistic your outlook is.
@@JohnFromAccounting When said like that it *seems* forward thinking, but in the context of the show, it's mostly played of as a joke that belittles Clara. Whenever Clara asks Capaldi how she looks and the Doctor ignores her, it often feels like Moffat is saying 'Lol, aren't woman superficial about their looks?! Isn't it funny that the Doctor doesn't care about stuff?', which feels especially egregious considering this was just after the Matt Smith era, where he displayed an obvious sex drive. The only reason Capaldi isn't doing the same is because even Moffat understands he's too old to be doing that. So, if Moffat can't sexualise woman's appearances anymore - hey! He can always mock them for their vanity!
This is why I love Donna so much, tbh. Refused to be anything but a peer, had a strong sense of what she wanted, right and wrong, had no interest in Tennant's Doctor and the actors both had a great chemistry for 'best friends in space'.
Also Eccleston is based af and 9 is the punk Doctor, fight me.
Also RTD has my undying gratitude for Jack Harkness. A bi/pan Han Solo type scoundrel was kind of an 'oh my god I could be a hero' moment for me.
Donna is literally incredible and I love her. I want to be her and have since I was a kid. What a damn role model, strong and confident and brash and clever. And *kind*. Everything we are told to grow up to be.
I love all of 10's companions. 40:24-41:28 is a great example of why Rose rocks, 13:02-13:17 for Martha. Just because Rose and Martha had romantic feelings of varying reciprocity doesn't mean they're suddenly bad characters. I hate the notion. Moffat's era is where the problems with how the female characters are written become a lot more pronounced IMO.
"I just want a mate"
(pause) "You Just Want... _TO MATE?!"_ 😧
"A mystery wrapped in an enigma, squeezed into a skirt that's just a little too tight" seems like an exaggerated meme you'd find about Men Writing Women. It's simultaneously hilarious and disappointing to know that's an actual real dialogue in a very recent season of a classic TV show.
Get the smelling salts!
The thing I find kind of funny about that line is that Neil Gaiman wrote the episode that line was in (Nightmare in Silver) and when he was asked about it on tumblr, he responded by saying "some of the lines were mine, and some were Moffat's". So it's almost certain that Moffat wrote that line.
@@joshc5613 Yeah, it was very clear what was Gaiman style and WHAT was Moffat style😅
@@joshc5613Love that subtle burn… Thank u Gaiman.. and sorry for you and for us fans!!!
And that's why Stevie Boy Wonder was a creep.
The thing I love about Martha’s guest appearance in Torchwood is that she’s treated with respect and reverence. She’s not reduced to a “Rose replacement” who’s in unrequited love with the Doctor, she’s allowed to be as brilliant as we know she is. It’s especially telling that Jack makes a point of not flirting with her, because of what they went through in the year that never was. Owen is clearly smitten with her for her intellect, and I wish we’d gotten more of them working off of each other. I’m glad she’s being given more chances to shine in Big Finish.
Wait..!
It was one-episode only?
Not only that, but we got to see her in a more mature environment, with a less child-friendly sheen that needs to clean up the dialogue and costuming. She was allowed to metaphorically let her hair down, and we got to see a Martha that used her race and her looks to infiltrate a company targeting addicts and vulnerable people, actually exploring some more targeted and overt ugly societal themes that are a bit too deep and dark for the Children to broach and explore outside of using the fantastical to make allegories and keep the details obscured.
Hilariously, when compared to Moffat's fantasies of straight women having "bad girl" moments of bi-curiousness, if any of the Russell-era characters ever had whispers of Queer coding around them with a possible believable arc in coming out & exploring their sexuality seriously, I would absolutely say that Martha seems by far & away the one that would genuinely make sense being LGBTQ, not because Freema has played characters with female & trans partners in the past, but because she's so genuine and feels like it would just work with the character and her arc through the series.
I don't like the standard Stan shipping and projecting things that aren't there or speculating over what might have been, but this is a genuine story idea that I feel would legitimately work, in the same way as revisiting Donna now has explored how the last 15 years have gone for, what she did with her lottery winnings, how she grew into married life & becoming a parent, how she deals with her missing memories and years of missing out on the wonders and horrors of alien life and being kept in a bubble by Silvia, Shaun and Wilf. It's not like when Andrew Garfield & Tobey Macguire turned up in the last Spider-Man movie, as if their characters had been preserved in amber and done nothing of note since their last appearance because Sony believes the audience needs to see the exact same person they left off on all those years ago, same for Michael Keaton's Batman in The Flash.
Torchwood was its own can of worms, though.
@@maazkalim She features in two or three episodes iirc
Martha is my favourite companion by a mile because of this, she is too good for the Doctor which is why she leaves and that is reinforced everytime she appears afterwards.
Came for the Doctor, stayed for the Moffat kink shaming
Edit 4/12: Holy crap where did all these likes come from
Moffat: Came for his own writing
@@Whiteythereaperor rather *to* his own writing.
@@Whiteythereaper omg this is hilarious 😂
@@Whiteythereaper true
Like FUCK man
I love rose's design like, that's my girl!! she works in a shop she's got clump eyeliner she's just like me FOR REAL she's a woman of the PEOPLE
She also my favorite!
She will always be my favorite companion, and the romance between her and 9/10 never made me icked out like I get with 11.
She was easily the most relatable character to me when I watched the show for the first time as a young teen :') Freaking love her
for me this is the strength of Davies
And now she's ... not a girl? Hmm.
The psychological horror that Amy was put through for most of her life would have left any reasonably realistic human being an irredeemable mess and I find it absolutely INSANE that she seems to carry absolutely no consequences from this - thanks for pointing it out.
Like from the very beginning, it's questionable for her to live such an abandoned lifestyle in that house alone. Then meeting someone who changes your outlook on life, presumably the first adult to ever take her seriously, who promises to take her with him and change everything, only to disappear for the entire rest of your childhood, with everyone thinking you're clinically insane? Holy shit would that not BREAK you??
And that's before the entire mess of forgetting and unforgetting your husband, forced pregnancy, essentially the loss of your child, finding out your child was actually your childhood bestfriend and is now also your friend's wife and yet you never got a chance to spend her childhood with her, seeing an alternate version of yourself suffer and die horribly in an infected environment over DECADES, spend centuries unconscious (?) in a box and wake up with the knowledge that your husband spent infinite lifespans to protect you, a debt which you'll have no idea how to ever repay...
Like FUCK man, how can you even try to stuff all that into a character's life and then just have it trickle down on them like oil on teflon?
@@Zionswasdthat would be a great explanation... if all of doctor who just consisted of garbage writing and wasn't ever on a level where people enjoyed it for its interpersonal relationships and compelling characters
@@Zionswasd Aren't there countless episodes of the Doctor dealing with all the psychological trauma he carries from all the terrible things he's both experienced and had to do throughout his life...? Especially during Moffat's run? I mean, it's not like the show doesn't engage frequently in ruminations on past trauma and how a character deals with it.
What always bothered me about the amy thing is - the docter has a time machine. It wouldn't have been hard to just, hop back in the time machine and get back at the time he'd promised, right?
Are you saying Amy was perfectly mentally healthy to an unrealistic degree? I find that weird. She was clearly deeply disturbed by her non-sensical childhood and had clear abandonment and commitment issues coming from her parents disappearing and the Doctor abandoning her as a child. I don't know, the idea that Amy has her shit together at all seems ridiculous to me.
@@spongmongler6760 ? I’m not saying it’s psychological horror to _watch_, but you can’t tell me that anyone could go through this themselves, in real life, and be in any way fine.
The tragedy of Jodie Whittacker's doctor is that you can tell she's so damned good at it---great casting and she completely commits to the role---but as you say, she's put in such boring episodes generally and has to share focus in this insipid team dynamic. She never really gets to star in her own show. It's criminal.
This is how I felt about Jodie Whittacker. She was such a great fit for a Doctor. The companions weren't even a bad idea. But the stories they were put into just sucked.
EXACTLY!! Jodie Whittaker deserved so much better, she fit the role so well and they downplayed her so bad 😭
They had every option open. The woman Doctor was a novel concept when it came about. Somehow Chris Chibnall chose all of the worst options in every regard and nearly tanked the show.
I really never saw Whittaker take to the role. To me, her entire acting style was utterly unsuited to the role of Doctor.
She's not a "big" actor. She works in small moments, heavy on pathos but short on movement.
The Doctor can do that, yes. But nearly every single Doctor was large and loud. Perhaps the only exception being Mcgann (He seemed to strain whenever he tried to go big).
I always thought that she was miscast, but that had she been given half decent material and direction, she could have created a good Doctor. You see moments of that here and there (the villa episode for example. It really showed promise), but she never got the chance because the foundation was always shoddy. Chibnall was a bad writer and a bad showrunner. He had nothing but the best ingredients and yet he made something utterly indigestible.
It's honestly such as shame. A female doctor could've brought a whole new range of dymanics, stories and conflict for the character as a whole but sadly that was never taken advantage of. Jodie got boring, one dimensional stories with even more one dimensional companions (which is also a shame as the cast seemed to have more chemstristy in interviews than in the actual show itself). She honestly desevered so much better and it's disappointing as she as sort of been used as a scapegoat by some fans to why the idea of a female doctor itself would never work.
Haven't watched the whole vid yet, but this convo is why Donna is my favorite companion. I like how it stays strictly platonic with this funny, strong-willed, boisterous woman, who never fully buys what the Dr is selling. She's so lively.
She basically took every chance to call the doctor out on his bs and i love it
I love Donna so much, she's awesome! Best companion for me.
@ebty4969 and it was exactly what he needed after being worshipped by Martha (and Rose). The 11th doctor could have done with being taken down a peg or two in a similar way!
It sounds like Moffat doesn’t understand what misogyny is.
@@intrepidabsurdist misogyny is when hot woman in impractically short skirt gets kidnapped by aliens, feminism is when hot woman in impractically short skirt shoots alien with gun. Simples /s
The "what if feminists were standing on the glass ceiling in a short skirt" line made me spit out my drink
Is there another way to make feminists seem appealing?
@@bambooblindssurely there no way to make you appealing to any human being
@@bambooblindsI know this will shock you but most of us don't WANT to be appealing to people like you 😂
@@CaseyTyler357 I think we found the feminists, they seem upset 🤭
@@theRPGmaster appropriate reaction to a deviant behaviour. Unless you're a teenager, you have no bussienes to be thinking about strangers in a sexual manner 24/7
I think that Moffat's worst sin was what he ended up doing with River Song's character. She started out tough and mysterious and the big mystery is that she's spent her life literally obsessed with the Doctor. Everything she does, down to her occupation as an archaeologist, is about him.
Yes, the Library set her up so well to be the Doctor's equal in all ways, but Moffat turned her into a cartoonish fan-girl.
Right? When I was still watching the 10th Doc episodes which were written by Moffat (like the Library one and Dont Blink), I got excited about 11th Doc... but now that I am watching him, the episodes just feel weird, like wth happened. I used to defend Moffat but heck I was wrong .___. Also it feels like Moffat over-does the episodes, that they are way too complicated for no reason. And the complications don't even add any new artistic values to the show.
All of that’s true. But River and 12 were magical in their one episode together.
It's a microcosm of the problems with Moffat's whole era really. All his big complex season long mysteries end up being just about the doctor cause the doctor is the most special important guy in the whole universe
That's the problem, I liked the majority of 9's and 10's episodes and hated only few of them; It's the opposite when it comes to 11th, I hate the majority of the episodes and only love few of them ;_; which makes me sad.
I just burst out laughing at "women can be smart and strong too just like men! maybe even better in some ways please step on me mistress" 32:09
holy fuck "graham didn't even get the chance to climb through caves in short skirts" YOU ARE MAKING MY DAY 43:57
So many good lines
I found Jackie Tyler a really cool character. She starts with a bunch of easy jokes about her being ditzy and promiscuous (which are mostly funny because it's embarrassing for Rose). But even as they develop her and show her more loyal and supportive side, they never give those things up. I can imagine people still have problems with her characterization but I respect she never has to change
Agreed. Past her first episode, she's largely painted as.. actually human. And when she gets angry it's for serious, understandable reasons. She just comes across as seriously human.
I would watch a show about Jackie dealing with various weird houseguests her daughter dropped off while being British Blair from the Golden Girls, tbh.
"And what's this then."
"Catgirl nurse, wounded, no time to explain."
"...Not even a man this time, much less good looking... **SIGH** I'll put the kettle on."
Exactly. You can be promiscuous and still have a complex and well rounded character.
Jackie Tyler is an icon, I love her so much.
Only good part of love and monsters was the characterisation of Jackie.
The thing is we’ve already seen a woman leading an ensemble of diverse sidekicks in doctor who; the sarah jane adventures! Sarah Jane was a strong lead with flaws and endless charisma who had a unique bond with each of the secondary characters, who had rich personal lives of their own. Her gender and age are not neglected, in fact they’re brought into her character in a way which feels grounded and honest.
100%
it was lowkey a better show too.
It really was a gem growing up
I should give that one I rewatch fr fr
sarah jane SLAPPED
I really feel bad for Jody Whittaker, she did any excellent job with the material she was given, she had all the chaotic energy of the doctor and really chewed the scenery but there was only so much for her to work with.
I'm also deeply disappointed that she never came up against Missy or met up with River. I think both those interactions would have been amazing. And especially with River since they're always meeting out of order, there's no reason she couldn't have been in it.
No because not having 13 meet River was actually a crime, I don't care if we saw River die she could've met a younger version of her. It would've made for such a great and emotional episode, especially because 12 definitely believes that he'll never see River again, so the reunion would've been amazing.
I agree! I really liked Jodie as the Doctor- she was the Doctor, just like the others. But she was short-changed. It's not even the villains or the Timeless child or the Division (I think all of those have a LOT of potential)... She could have been so BADASS. I want a woman Doctor who can lean into being a badass alien and is not reduced to her gender. Jodie did great with what she was given (I honestly loved her), but she could have been so much better. Maybe Jodie could come back? She deserves another run with excellent writing. So do Yaz, Graham and Ryan, actually. They had so much potential, too.
I would have loved for 13 and Missy to meet.
River meeting 13 only works if it's after the Library and I would have loved that, actually.
EDIT:
All that said, I didn't hate the Chibnall era.
For example, I love how he dealt with the Master (despite my wish that Missy could have faced off against Thirteen) and it was BADASS how the Doctor beat the Master using a Hologram. I wanted more such badass moments.
I also like how he wrote the oldWho monsters. Daleks, Cybermen.
I kind of feel a shift in tone in this video when he starts talking about Thirteen. It goes from being angry at Moffat's horny writing, to merely regretful at Chibnall for wasting the opportunity of the first female Doctor.
I think there were some decent episodes and concepts, but Chibnall's run suffered from two things:
1 - too many companions who didn't really have enough to do, so either had to be given some filler storylines or essentially share a part. When we've previously had multiple companions, it's usually been one-off episodes where the storyline is written around lots of characters and therefore has enough jobs for them all. Alternatively, you have a character like Nardol who you can "park" when he's surplus to the story.
They could have resolved the too many companions issue by having storylines like in Donna's era where sometimes Catherine and David had their own episodes, like on Midnight when Donna decides she'd rather stay in the spa than go on an excursion. But ultimately it was an unnecessary hurdle of their own making. Yaz's character was ok and could have been developed more, so I think merging Ryan and Graham's characters would have benefited the plots. Perhaps having Dan in earlier and giving him some space to grow would have been better. Also, I'm not really sure why they introduced his romance and then immediately killed it, so they could have explored that long-distance relationship element (although again it's been done), maybe even have Diane be involved for an episode or two then park her in a Nardol-esque fashion. You could then round their storyline out more and either the strain of being with the doctor breaks them up or forces Dan to leave.
2 - the pandemic limited what they could film which meant that instead of fully fleshed out series, we got random episodes which were difficult to follow and didn't have room to develop properly: how can you have a series arc when there isn't a series?
For example, Yaz's feelings for the doctor were an interesting character development, if not entirely original, but they didn't really have time to flesh it out properly. Ordinarily, characters would be given at least one series to explore those feelings and for the doctor to decide what they wanted to do about it.
Although I understand that RTD wanted a fresh start, I think it's a shame that we're given no explanation for what happens to Yaz. Usually characters either decide that enough's enough or they get killed/stuck.
26:24 I actually didn't think about that until I heard you say it, but you're absolutely right. It was treated as a real tragedy for someone to leave without a name to be remembered by during the RTD years. It really added to the sentiment that the Doctor believed even "unimportant" people were miraculous and valuable. For as much as the 11th Doctor said "nine hundred years of time and space and I've never met anybody who wasn't important," that belief wasn't really supported by the writing.
The one who regrets - and the one who forgets; only the reason he forgets is 'cause Moffat kinda forgot over his fap sessions about River Song.
I haaaaate that moffat wrote the 1st doctor as a misogynist and homophobe with a passion. Its so bottom of the barrel, basic and just makes me sad
Agreed. I feel like he doesn't understand that an audience sees a distinction between real life and fantasy. We don't rewatch old who and assume that the racism, misogyny, and other discrimination are facets of the character that he outgrew over centuries, the same way we don't think the old monsters were supposed to be literally humans in monster suits. The audience understands that stuff to be a product of our history and our world, not something that we need to maintain as canon within the fantasy world
@@hallowedfool Maybe it's a bit... conflating Hartnell with his character. From what I've heard, Hartnell was a kind of "prejudiced except if he got to know you" kind of person. Like he was anti-semitic in the abstract, but since Verity Lambert was a friend, she didn't count as one of those "bad" jews. though this kind of take on the first doctor did start early, with the Five Doctors having him tell Tegan "young lady make us some tea".
Same, Moffatt really screwed up on that
It doesn't make sense of course, either. When you're consistently writing that the reason the Doctor is relatively progressive is because Time Lord society figured its shit out thousands of years ago, you're just undermining yourself if you then make the first doctor some out of touch old man.
Look, he had to get that bar pretty low if he wanted to say he cleared it
With Clara, I always interpreted 12’s line in Deep Breath: “Clara, I’m not your boyfriend”
“I never thought you were”
“I never said it was your mistake.”
As essentially a sort of apology for the way he used her to feel young and human as 11. And thankfully I do think she developed into a much stronger character into series 8 and 9, and not just another girl with a title instead of a character, but god was it bad in series 7. I also don’t really mind that she gets upset and confused about regeneration; sure, she’s met other doctors, but that’s not the same as losing *her* Doctor, and actually witnessing him regenerate before her
Capaldi's Doctor and Clara still have a romantic relationship, but it's a true romance that sits above all the flirtatiousness. It's a bond based on trust and understanding, and feels honest.
She got SO much better. I know some argue that she still is still sorta… (looking for the word here, “beholden”? “compared to”?) by her emulating the Doctor’s traits. At least it was better than her being the Manic Pixie Dream Plotdevice.
Jenna Coleman absolutely smashed that role throughout the character’s changes.
I hope Moffat does better, in whatever he writes next.
Moffat's treatment of women does get marginally better as his tenure goes on but by then it's too little too late. I still love Bill though, I think she's a fantastic character.
@@JohnFromAccounting I really just don't think this is the case. They're best friends who love each other in a platonic way, but I never once got any kind of romantic indication from the 12/Clara pairing.
@@BlueSparxLPs Then you will need to rewatch "robbin' a bank, robbin' a whoooole bank... beat that as a date!" or something like that and the whole competing and dick bashing with Danny
Being an immature teen I thought my favorite companion was Amy (mainly because I unknowingly had a huge crush on her). Growing up and maturing I realized my favorite companions are actually Donna and Martha.
This is the same thing I did, but with Rose instead of Amy. I still do like Rose, though.
@@harleycao1332 Rose is pretty iconic
I reckon Rose is my favourite, because in hindsight I realise how intentional she was. If you think about it, she seems selected from the start to be eye candy but every aspect of her characterisation fights against that. She's a young blonde woman with no particular aspirations or special skills; she's the perfect setup for a character that's just meant to look pretty, scream when there's danger, and need everything explained to her. Instead, right from the first episode, she's shown to be inquisitive, brave, headstrong, and capable. Martha and Donna don't have that same quality, because Martha is a medical student and a level of intellect is naturally expected, and Donna is a total firebrand right out of the gate.
I feel like Rose was intentionally created as a commentary, and it makes me appreciate her more. Plus, I grew up with those seasons so Eccleston and Piper are very nostalgic for me, so I'm maybe just biased :p
@@equidistanthoneyjoy7600 Very interesting. Makes a lot of sense. I'm also a bit biased cause Tennant was my first doctor. I for sure need to rewatch everything lolo
@@equidistanthoneyjoy7600
I definitely agree with that. I just relate to Donna more, myself. And you're right about rose being intentionally not what people expected and all! I hadn't noticed or thought about it until you mentioned it, though.
This video validates my love of Martha as a companion and my hill that she is the most underrated NuWho companion. Everyone likes to reduce her down to ‘the companion that had unrequited feelings for the Doctor’, but her arc as a character shows a lot of her strength without demonizing her emotions.
If you go back and rewatch, a lot of her stories have her separated from the Doctor and having to solve/manage things on her own with her own wit and skill. While she had a crush on the Doctor and was jealous of the Doctor constantly talking about Rose, her arc had her learning to stand up for herself and realize her own value, separate from The Doctor, (for example, in The Family of Blood two-parter) and she eventually leaves on her own, realising that pining for the Doctor does her no good. I think that’s a powerful message for anyone to take away, man or woman - learning to respect yourself enough to walk away from something you think you want because you know it won’t actually help you grow as a person to keep chasing it.
And I still think Martha is the only NuWho companion, until Jodie’s run, to voluntarily walk away from the Doctor’s side like that. And I greatly respect her for it.
i agree, martha is one of my favorite companions because of how independent she is and how she never got any magic power-up to save the day, it was always her internal strength and selflessness. she's introduced to the audience as a doctor-in-training and we get to see her grow as a person over her time in the tardis; and also we get to see how the doctor puts an incredible amount of trust in her, putting his life in her hands time and time again. i think a big thing with the rtd companions is the many ways they save the doctor rather than the other way around and martha is certainly at the forefront in this regard
I'm so excited for Donna to return, she really felt like the ultimate vehicle to view the story through- she couldn't see herself as remarkable, she led an ordinary life and she didn't need a giant mystery to be worth something in that giant universe, she just had to bring her deeply human compassion for the suffering, her sense of humor, and her mundane problems and fears. Donna was more relatable than any past companion, even when I was watching as a 12 year old, because she wasn't some superhero, she was the person who stood at the hero's side and reminded him to be kind as well as brilliant. Ugh I love her so much.
Such a great comment. You’ve really distilled what it is that makes Donna such a remarkable and relatable companion. I can’t wait for her return.
You said it perfectly! Her character meant so much to me when I was a kid
I too think Donna is the best companion. She seems quite ordinary, apparently nothing remarkable about her, she is not even your usual "normal, ordinary person" from fantasy stories, but then she meets the Doctor, and she shows that any of us can do great things.
omg so well said!!! donna planted the seed for me of being an extrovert so thanks donna LOL!
"one personnality split 4 ways with most of it given to Graham" is exactly how I feel about the Chibnall era 😂
No matter how low the Chibnall era got, nothing can stop Who’s legacy of lovable grandad figures
Yeah. Graham felt more like the Doctor than Jodie Whittaker did
I enjoyed the Chibnall era but this was honestly spot-on 🤣
@@MrPonytronwhich is so sad because i thought Jodie had so much potential. I was so excited for her, and so gut-wrenchingly disappointed with how much i hated her run. I stopped watching because the writing was unbearable, with either ham-fisted or straight up wrong and dangerous messages. I was fuming after the attempted mental health episode.
It’s none of the actors faults, i so wish Jodie could have shined more.
@@AnEmu404 I don't necessarily blame Jodie. The writing was awful and that was what she had to work with. Blame Chris Chibnall
Okay what’s kind of funny about this for me is that I loved Amy and River Song, and I’m now realizing that part of that was probably closeted-lesbian-teen-ism and like getting to quietly enjoy a fetishized fantasy of women being dominant and being outwardly sexual while I could relate to the sexually awkward male role as an outlet for my own conflicted feelings… 😅
Omg I felt this. As a kid I would always do this..
Little did I know, I was lesbian and deeply repressing my feelings.
Tbh, I’ve never watched Dr who, but if I did, I’d probably love rose the most. Like she’s the same age as I am in the series, and also very much is relatable.
absolutely same relisation for me here as a now lesbian and this show, river was more significant and gripping to me than the doctor ever was didnt like amy so much probably because she was too straight and attached to rory haha
this is what i was thinking the whole time watching this video, big mood
omg yessss and i think thats why i love River so much
it always felt weird to me how easily amy lets go of her future husband for her "new crazy boy crush uwu" and so i didn't think of her as a romantic interest but with river on the other hand i haven't noticed these red flags such us oversexualizing her and being called a bad girl all the time cuz she's so my type and i wanted her to dominate over me omgggg
okay word actually. you're onto something
You have put into words something I felt but couldn't word as a teen. 😭😭😭 Seriously the idea of getting supernaturally pregnant is the sort of thing that gives your average 12 year old literal nightmares .
*bible has joined the chat*
The whole "women are scaryyy 😜 and that's feminist" angle in stories has always pissed me off and I'm realizing now the source of that hatred was all moffat's fault to begin with lol
They're not scary, just not as competent as men in the majority of fields.
🙄
@@rachelvelander5377 Point being proven, as you're not even competent enough to use words. Cheers.
@@VG-fk6nk Only scared people would say something that delusional
@@Window4503 Bad try. My point stands.
22:37 the fact that we hear more about rose's mate shareen, a character who never even appears onscreen, than we do any of amy's family (when amy being an orphan is a seemingly big part of her backstory and an important plot point in s5 is amy REGAINING her family) to me perfectly encapsulates the difference between rtd's and moffat's approach to the role of the companion.
This is such an excellent point. Moffat gave Amy back the family he had the crack take away, then had her run away and basically never interact with them. Amy's POV could have been so so interesting, between having built the doctor up in her mind and being faced with the reality of him, between having grown up with an unmade family then (possibly?) having a do-over timeline in her head, between the terrible things done to her in Demons Run (both by the Silence and the Doctor himself), and the weird mindfuck of growing up alongside her daughter. But uh yeah, better to just laugh at how simpy she can make Rory whatever 🙄
I find it even more wild that in later adventures (episodes written by Chris Chibnal) they introduce Rory’s dad as a character and yet we never see Amy’s parents again. There was a real missed opportunity for her character as she remembers both the childhood with her parents and without. It really doesn’t help that Rory’s dad, in my opinion, is really annoying and unfunny.
It’s SO fucking weird that amy and rory never get their personal lives properly explored or even mentioned most of the time. I find it really hard to rewatch any of that era now because I’m just thinking about how Amy barely mentions how she was forcibly impregnated and had her baby stolen. I don’t think moffat should write such dark subject matter if he’s not willing to take it seriously
I'm not going to lie, I feel like this video is very oddly and partially even framed in bad faith but this is a good point.
We don't ever hear Amy talk about her aunt, the only family member she did have left besides the few mentions she got by Amellia
Thank you! One of my biggest gripes with Moffat's era. And the same sort of happens with Clara and Bill. We only briefly see them interact with their family - in Bill's case it's understandable, she is in an 'aged out of foster care' type of situation but we only get Clara's family for that one dinner scene where the Doctor is naked. That's it.
It also always bothered me that we were meant to believe the doctor loved River as a wife so much so he'd spend 24 years with her at the singing towers. Yet whenever they interact before that its just a lot of heavy innuendos and flirting (which he does with every other woman in moffatts era). I had no emotional investment in their relationship because of this. AND at the same time the doctor is getting all romantic with Clara. Then, when clara and river meet they are all awkward (in a wife-meets-girlfriend/mistress-way) and we are just meant to be like 'oh ahah what japes'. Like??? The doctor is some sort of stud flying around the universe shacking up with several women at once, occationally sees his wife for a quick flirt, but then she pisses off enough for him to hang out with his young girlfriend. Thats not doctor who! Thats stephen moffatts male fantasy!
"Letting scripts be driven by fantasies weakens them" is a universal truth that every writer should take to heart absolutely regardless of gender or sexuality. Great video.
FR!!
[Insert not so PC joke here]
Except slashfics. You guys keep doing you 😉
Doctor Who is a fantasy from top to bottom. A wish-fulfilment fantasy much of the time. It's not Grave of the Fireflies. The problem with Moffet wasn't that he was writing fantasy but that he was sculpting bad scripts. He was a decent script-writer and a terrible show-runner. The whole concept of show-runner is flawed in the first place, mind you.
@@nagoranerides3150 they mean fantasy as in specifically sexual fantasy. letting your stories be driven by sexual fantasy is cool if you're writing porn, not so cool if its a PG13 that broadcasts at 6pm
I'm going to be honest. I love Amy Pond. So, I was super set on raging in your comments about Moffat over-sexualizing her. I always just thought of her as a strong companion who happened to be very sexual and that was OK. I'm a girl who loves short skirts, makeup, 2inch heels and being pretty. And so, I thought the take that Karen WANTED to wear those skirts, at the age we both were at the time, seemed plausible. However, your delivery is properly thought out and well supported. I think you may have changed my mind, or at the very least, given me something to really think about. Thanks for the time you put into this.
I agree. I think what bugs me is that Moffat could ONLY write 'that type of woman'. I definitely think it is positive to see a woman that is empowered and confident in her sexuality, it's just a shame it couldn't have been handled by a more competent or female writer.
I want to second this thought process, it was a well written perspective and it has given me some things to chew on. I dislike that there was no focus on River Song's intelligence. I can't help but feel that there is too much being broken down in the comparisons.
More people need to get "redpilled" on Moff and his trash lmao, I love to see this
I agree that I want to see sexually empowered woman, but I like how this video pointed out that she was shown through the doctors eyes. If the show had allowed her to be the lead and see the world through her lens, then her sexuality would have been a facet of a deeper character instead of being her whole character. Such a shame the writer failed at doing this.
@@bobdallas4860can you explain in detail how her character was changed from the beginning to the end of her arc. i love amy but she was underwritten. she acted nearly exactly the same from beginning to end
"It feels as if [Russel T Davies] writes the companions as if he _were_ the companions" is such an interesting take. I hadn't really thought about it like that before but I can definitely see it. I think a lot of things just clicked in my brain about why his writing feels the way it does. Overall very insightful video!
It's such a great way to put it! RTD wants to run away with the doctor, Moffat thinks he is the doctor.
@@emmadenton1826Both points of view are interesting
Wait, that explains Sherlock too!
The companions are Watsons, audience surrogates with their own perspectives and beliefs. We see through them.
Moffat wrote both the Doctor and Sherlock as special unique good-at-everything weirdos who are the coolest ever, sidelined everyone else and both shows were worse for it.
@emmadenton1826 yes !!! And moffatt as an extension treats the doctor as some sexualised space stud, hires actresses he fancies to play out all the female roles and gives them no personality besides 'sassy and sexy' to lean into his male fantasy of himself as the doctor 😂
I don't agree with that take at all, not every one consumes media like people on tumblr, RTD just wrote the doctor as romantic hero.
I think Moffat’s best work easily came from Russell T Davies’ time as show runner. The writing team managed to streamline his more convoluted ideas and kept his horniness in check.
Totally, Moffat had fantastic one-shot stories, but when put in charge and presumably without someone else to say "mate, that's a terrible idea" both Dr Who and Sherlock just start to run on down into the absurd.
What writing team? RTD was the only person doing rewrites on scripts at the time and he's openly said moffat was the only writer he never needed to do rewrites for.
The same can be said of Chibnall. All through his work on Who and Torchwood and other projects like Broadchurch, he not only had someone above him to reign in his ideas and collaborate and provide feedback, he also had a producer he worked closely with that would refine his work and help it shine, which is a large part of Broadchurch's success. On his turn as showrunner for Who, he stopped working with his producing partner and got final say on all stories and scripts, which is where the general "fuck continuity and fuck the canon" attitude came from, before the backlash made him pivot so hard into the existing lore and continuity that he overshot the mark and pulled a 343 wth Halo 5, pandering hard to the devoted fans with deep cut lore, leaving newer viewers absolutely lost and bogged down in exposition and looking for breakdown videos to understand the references.
@@millsy2288 I think the combo worked well bc it was Moffat's plots and "casual horror" which he is brilliant at but with RTD's characters that already had a background and couldn't get *that* out of character in one or two episodes
I'm not sure it was even a writing team thing. I always felt like Moffat excelled at creating interesting ideas with really powerful imagery and symbols. It made for fantastic 1-2 episode arcs, but when he was a showrunner and this symbolism and mystery carried on for season long arcs, after awhile everything started to feel empty. Every character was a cool symbol and tagline, but lacked any substance. Like eating cotton candy
I always wish people would mention the massive amount of homoerotic subtext that RTD put in for the Doctor and the Master and the implications it has for Twelve and Missy.
Yes! The Master literally "dies" in the Doctor's arms. It's barely subtext! I think it's the one bit of the video I disagree with - there's clearly a romantic subtext there between the Doctor and the Master from much earlier on. You can argue it's there in some Classic serials.
I think when they started veering the show away from action adventure and tried to introduce sexual tension between the doctor and his companions it got weird. Not every show on tv needs to be a relationship drama. I grew up watching the oldschool Dr Who’s with my dad so maybe I’m biased, but the doctor creeping on the companions was ruining my childhood 😂😂😂
NAH BUT FR THO the old who was juts so much better in regards ro that tbh
Maybe it was because I was still at that "Ew, kissing's gross!" age, but when 9 kissed Rose to get the power of the time vortex out of her I remember being all "Aw come on..." about it.
I mostly agree but joe brennan’s recent video on romance in doctor who gave me a lot to think about, I’d really recommend it
@@Mayeur000Donz To be fair, it was all very soap opera-esque. Even the "I think you need a doctor" line was cringey. All we needed was for the Doctor's evil twin to barge in with a miraculously revived Captain Jack, and we actually got one of those things.
I will die on the hill that Donna was the best NewWho companion because her time was zero romance bestie adventures where it was just all about traveling and experiencing and her stepping into her potential to become the best version of herself. She managed to fill the traditional role of the companion AND be the Doctor's equal.
the tragedy is that i fucking LOVE missy too. i think michelle gomez is an absolute genius and that missy's arc was super interesting, plus i think her interpretation of femininity & presentation makes a lot of sense for the character. she's easily my favorite incarnation of the master but when you compare her to every other Moffat Woman she stops looking like an intentional choice and an exploration of a really interesting archetype and you just start to see how she fits into the pattern.
Well, the thing is, Missy being a very good character and also being the vessel for Moffat's fantasy can be both true. These ideas do not have to be at odds. Like you say, there is a ton of narrative weight behind the idea of the Master falling for the doctor, spanning seasons well before Moffat. It's just that his tendency to write one-handed (as another comment calls it lmao) got the better of him, and he pushed some details a bit too much towards his personal preference. If Amy had been well written we probably wouldn't question Missy as much.
@@wydx120They don’t have to be at odds… but It really does taint the concept and the character arc. If I rewatch it, all I’ll be thinking about is how this is just another fantasy/moffat being sexist and not something deliberate. It basically ruins all emotional weight the arc had.
Sure, it seemed like good writing… but it was built on such a dodgy and gross framework. Is it really good writing if understanding more about it makes you like it less? Maybe it’s still good writing, but it’s definitely not something good.
It’s also not really something I would like to openly praise him for or even want to talk about. I mean, how much praise would he really deserve if it was just something he stumbled into thanks to his sexism?
One of the best things about the doctor/companion dynamic to me has always been the doctor missing things obvious to a human. Especially with Donna, such as the missing sick days, the doctor needs the companions to help with clues he has completely missed
I think Moffat's women very much embody the hollywood ideal woman...which is very much a male idea of power. A woman can kick ass, fire an uzi and be tough as leather, but usually not much focus on qualities that don't involve violence or sex. Nothing wrong with a sexy, tough woman, but there's other kinds of power that aren't often modelled.
And you just sound like you're passing off traditional gender roles as woke. Why must women always be nice and cutesy? Why can't they be mean and complex?
Also, most Hollywood heroines still look incredibly feminine and get in relationships with the main male MC. Oftentimes his influence makes them act more traditionally feminine.
100%. I’ve never been able to be a big movie person because women are just written insufferably so often. Able to beat up 10 men and still look sexy doing it, it’s just so overdone and boring and so far from relatability. It feels like I spend my time when I’m watching movies and reading begging for nuance😂
@@amyvictoriab Pick me ass
@@amyvictoriab in all fairness, a lot of the male characters are *also* missing that depth and nuance. lol SIGH. I don't see a lot of men to relate to either. But it's way worse with female characters.
Ha and that's why I love shows like Sailor Moon. The women there are strong but also feminine, they cry, they despair, heck the main character is big crybaby and is totally lazy and bad at school and yet it works. Because being strong is not having power or muscles or even brain, nothing that comes from all this toxic masculinity.
I had never made the connection that the reason I loved Rose so much was her working class-ness. I clearly saw her as a mirror to my own experiences and pairing that with a Doctor with a noticeable northern accent like my own, perfection!
I’m a Geordie with mental health issues and I think this is me but for Amy instead, I became so attached to her. I related to her childhood neglect and being lonely. I sometimes wished the man in the blue box fell into my garden :/
on rewatchs for me, i got to like rose so much more than martha (who i found dull throughout) because she would be compassionate about other people, and check if they were OK. other assistants tended to just get swept along with all the action. but rose would stop and ask someone who'd just gone through something harrowing if they were OK, and try to help/comfort them. donna would do this occasionally too. but rose seemed to be the most genuinely compassionate/empathic.
I always connected with Roses "working class"ness too! I alway loves how she got whisked away from her retail job and would befriend all the working class women she met. When I imagine myself meeting the Doctor (as I assume most fans imagine) I always imagine something quite like what happened with Rose
The early seasons were really a love letter to the working class of this world, and how being ordinary can be so extraordinary.
exactly why 9 and rose in are my fav from nuwho, literally from lancashire like eccleston plus the working classness of rose just speaks to me
Ohhh! Doctor Who feminist discussion lets goooo
Omg when two worlds collide! Loved you in your wrong About
@@ms.antithesis i mean the view of media from a casual fan is also good
Heeeey, Princess!
"It's not boyfriend and girlfriend. It's not husband and wife." Says the man who made Eleven's second companion his girlfriend and his first companion's daughter his wife.
Granted, RTD didn't do this much better with Rose and Martha, but he'd started going in the right direction with Donna, and then Moffat had to re-learn all those lessons all over again like he hadn't been paying attention.
God the 13 doctor's treatment absolutely haunts me 😭
Jodie Whittaker does a freaking FANTASTIC job portraying an entirely 2-dimensionally written character, which actually kept me engaged for the 1st season. The adventures that they go on are awesome too - especially since they're not shying away from controversial topics and telling less white/western centric stories. If ONLY the main characters had even an OUNCE of personality.... It could've been so freaking good, but no!!!
It's not her fault, it's bad writing. The "less white/western centric" stories were still from a completely white perspective (as in everyone acts like they're from an anglo-culture).
I never blamed her, I just couldn't sit through the writing, I still want another woman to be the doctor, I just want it done well and by people who know how to write stories and juggle plots.
I like the idea of writing non-white centric stories, but that Rosa Parks episode was garbage. They clearly didn’t do an ounce of research and it was frankly insulting to the civil rights movement to imply that it was all dependent on that one bus incident. Did they not realize that there were more activists than just Rosa Parks? And that she did more than sit on a bus?
@@theshire9173 I noped out of Whittaker after 1.5 episodes, so... please, PLEASE tell me they fricking didn't...
She doesn't feel alien at all what are you talking about
The irony of Chibnall being accused of making Doctor Who “too preachy and woke” is that he wrote three seasons wherein the only redeeming aspect is the old white guy
"the only redeeming aspect is the old white guy" there's a lot of great aspects in Chibnall's era imo
@@friendlyotaku9525not really. It's like tuning into game of thrones and all of the sudden this new season is basically nothing like the prior and is a CW show. Like it's just really bad and not even because it's woke or whatever
@@friendlyotaku9525 Fan of The Flash season 4-9?
@@Jiub_SN ...have you never actually watched this show? Change is built into the show's DNA and it is still Doctor Who.
Power of the Doctor alone has some of the best scenes in the show's history. So a lot of great aspects.
@@na5567 huh?
The BEST companions that I think beat the stereotypes fully was Martha and Donna. Martha broke free the "side-kick" trope and took on her own character the long way around by literally facing the Master herself for a year and Donna went from a simple-minded person who always thought she was worth nothing to someone who saves the entire universe. She wasn't a love interest, but a friend. A true friend to The Doctor. That's what made her departure sad. We've all lost friends naturally because we have to and that's what made it hard
exactly because Martha made the decision to stop traveling with the Doctor to be with her family and in later episodes recognizes the danger and risks of being a companion. Rory also would often let the Doctor know how dangerous he, as well as his time traveling journeys, are. It’s nice to see companions not just suck up to the Doctor but also recognize the risks of being with him
Donna will always be my fave companion. Unapologetically herself, funny, strong willed, knew what she wanted. The besties in space dynamic was fabulous.
I liked the Romana/Doctor dynamic precisely *because* she was as smart as he was. It was a screwball comedy-type squabbling, while still being without romantic or sexual aspects. There was something similar for Donna Noble. She was a grown woman and not inclined to knuckle under to the Doctor.
Seeing a matured Martha would be awesome, a bit nostalgia baity but awesome.
I’ve been hoping for a Martha-led spinoff show for years now and still hope that it happens someday
She’s such a good character; I wish she’d more series in the show
It's one of those instances where I don't care how nostalgia-baity it would be, because it would just be SO DAMN AWESOME :D
its crazy cause i havent seen dr who since high school and i realized i recognized martha from a medical tv show on netflix! i loved her in it and she literally hasnt aged one bit
The irony, of course, of Moffat's take on sexuality in doctor who and coupling is that it was so ridiculous that it taught me how to spot that nonsense from a mile.
It worked as a vaccination by exposing you to the disease in a controlled situation?
Honestly same! I used to be oblivious to the portrayal of gender and of lgbt+ people in fiction… and then I watched Moffat’s Sherlock. Life changer. 😅
@@kangaroo9816how so
@@Jiub_SN watch it, suffer, and learn hehe
@@Jiub_SN my situation is different from op in that i didn’t see the issues on my own at first. I watched the show as a teenager, became a wee bit obsessed, interacted with the fandom to a degree i never did before or have done since - and eventually i encountered the critical voices, and because i cared so much about the show, i actually thought about this criticism more than i otherwise would have, and it taught me to view stories from a whole different perspective.
Sherlock is now of course completely ruined for me and i see it as a casebook of issues more than anything else. The queerbaiting and problematic depiction of lgbt+ people and women are bad enough, but what floored me the most in the end was the blatant disrespect for the source material when bbc sherlock openly mocks what doyle originally wrote or twists it out of recognition and changes the outcome/take away of the story.
Calling Karen Gillian “dumpy” is so absurd to me omfg
So is calling her "wee"
@@cathiegenecalling any woman dumpy sucks
i think he meant another person auditioning for the part
He's talking about the person auditionin gbefore her...
Him calling anyone dumpy when he looks like a boiled potato dropped on a salon floor is NONSENSE.
By coincidence there was recently a discussion about Amy and Rory on a site I frequent, and someone noted that they tended to just be and do whatever the story needed them to. That rang pretty true to me, especially compared with how Davies wrote companions.
The only bit I do disagree with is the section about Bill and specifically the post-date scene. I think that's actually a fairly normal interaction for a lot of sapphic relationships, where you do often have to reassure women who are dating other women for the first time, even during extremely intimate moments. And I don't think anything about the way the scene was acted out or filmed suggested sexualised undertones as suggested, and instead I think it was meant to be a moment where characters speak to the show's young audience about acceptance. Moffat's interviews during s10 are surprisingly interesting because he is quite reflective of the misogyny in his previous seasons, especially in Missy's writing.
I agree with you. I think that scene is not very sexualized and if anything set up the bit of one Bill's date having religious trauma related to her sexuality (mood) only to have the pope walk into her date.
I don't think the criticism is so much that the scene is too sexual, but that it's very superficial and perfunctory. Thus the comparison to a porno scene preamble since Moffat does seem to write lesbians and bisexual women alot, but always in this same way. Like a straight guy who's really exited to write about lesbians.
This is also a set-up for the joke that shortly follows. Bill has a date who has obviously only recently realised she likes women and is feeling ambivalent about it. Bill is trying to reassure her that it's all fine …then she walks into the bedroom and the bed is surrounded by catholic priests.
I would be weirded out if a woman said that to me without first checking in if I actually struggle with internalized guilt like that at that moment.
If she’d just say it like that I’d read it as sexual and pushy.
The way the actress delivered that line kind of saves it, she sounds empathetic and concerned, but if you’d just read the script it would seem weird af.
i don't remember the exact context of what Bill' saying, but at least out of it the phrase sounds more like "having less experience with women than your potential partner is nothing to be ashamed about" and that's a cool thing to express, esp for a lesbian. as bisexual i felt kinda awkward about it when i was young, and some can give you shit about it.
oh i am so excited for this. being a woman in the doctor who fandom is literally like dodging arrows while walking through a grocery store.
What
Good thing Dr Who sucks now and you don't have to be a fan of it!
Why is it like that for you? I have friends that are females and fans of the show and they never seemed to be put down for an opinion
@@conoradams1276 why bother asking women's opinions when we have a man who has female friends
@@emartin7421😆
One of my favorite bits of Rose as a character is when she's relating to the working class in these alien societies, especially since at first it seems to completely blindside the doctor. His whole "Do as the Romans do" attitude vs her staunch protectiveness of the Ood and their rights was a really great storyline.
you made me realise the Doctor should be Asexual again, especially when asexuality is constantly being shunned and put on the side lines of sexual identity.
“Fellas, is it gay to get captured by Daleks?” Really got me lmao
I really loved Missy as a character and I really wish they would of wrote her to live up to that "“Oh, don’t be disgusting. We’re Time Lords, not animals. Try, Nano-brain, to rise above the reproductive frenzy of your noisy little food chain and contemplate friendship. Friendship older than your civilization, and infinitely more complex.”
Also as others have pointed out this is why Donna is the absolute best
missy was great!! moffat could've wrote her to be so much more :( it was also great to see the whole kissing and flirting thing being *part* of the friendship - with a more leftist lens, it takes on a sort of removal of unnecessary borders between connections with people (platonic, romantic, etc)
so glad hbomberguy recommended your channel! this video is genius and very well researched/put together. thank you for making it!
I could never put my finger on why exactly I disliked Moffat’s era, while also re-watching RTD’s seasons multiple times. This essay is somewhat eye opening, I was certainly put off by Moffat’s characterization, especially Eleventh Doctor and his companions. Misogyny is quite apparent.
I think the companion being the doctor's heart and the doctor being the brains usually works best. The companion can know more than the doctor in some ways
Ooh, that's a great way of explaining the dynamic!
Good way to explain a very old and sexist trope of making female actors be the emotional mop of a male actor’s “smart” character
@@HarringtonsApocySome stories may use this trope in a sexist manner, but the trope by itself isn't sexist at all. I'd say plenty (though not all) Doctor Who stories used it really effectively in a way that elevated their story
Actually makes me think of a quote/joke during 12th's early run, ironically enough:
"This is Clara, she's my..."
"Carer."
"Right, she cares so that I don't have to."
@@HarringtonsApocyIt ultimately depends on how the trope is executed, but there is definitely an underlining power dynamic between the Doctor and whatever companion is there, even when the writers try to make a companion an equal. The Doctor is thousands of years old, and you could argue that they take the young companions because they enjoy the fact that they hold a certain sense of superiority over them, more akin to a pet. Certain eras call out this motive however, 7 and 8's eras being examples. I would like one era where The Doctor has to do the self-reflection and growing by themself, no companion. Because personally, I don't think it should be on one person to sorely be there as an anchor for another. That line of thinking is something that always annoyed me about NewWho.
I’ve never actually heard that full “wee and dumpy” quote! I’d always just assumed it had to be a joke, not a good joke but clearly a joke, since Karen is by all conventions stunningly gorgeous.
It was a joke yeah
Not quite a joke. He was saying that the way the audition tape was filmed she looked short and fat, but he realised he was wrong about that when he saw her in person. He probably thought he was being self-deprecating, telling this story in the official behind-the-scenes show, but he's basically saying that the actress' skills alone might not have been enough to get her the role if she weren't as hot as she is, which is so inappropriate.
@@travellerinthedarkHe is clearly a mind of our generation, by our generation, I mean people on rule34.
@@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457don’t blame drawings for this, blame the world that taught people that women should only be “sexy” (and by sexy i mean thin and white) and should only be seen that way
@@elliottwatt5297 I assumed he was being sarcastic, but turns out he actually thought she was wee and dumpy in the tape before he met her in person. So it might still be a a joke but it’s not what I thought it was at all.
Hearing a lot of these lines as an adult vs as a teenaged boy hurts me in the same way as remembering when I used to parrot the conservative ideas of my parents without understanding shit
16:50 Rose Tyler 'Do you actually get paid though, do they give you money?' clip i'd know you from a single frame.
I really, really, really hate the trope where two love interests meet when one of them is a child/infant. It is truly nauseating.
eta: I don't even watch dr who, just Verity lmao
Exactly!! Especially Amy :/
Honestly shot just make me ill 🤢
Oh god I'm not the only one. I thought i was just being annoying
@@idonteatspiders2986 Not hardly the only one. It's gross.
Yeah. And it happened so regularly.
The tragedy of the Chibnall Era is that the BBC will take the wrong lesson away from it, he was the absolute worst person to be in charge of the first female doctor.
The BBC are very proud of what Chibnall did with the show so not really.
I just don’t remember many good stories with Jody’s Doctor, a shame since she had good energy like Matt & David.
It's weird because I remember the dynamics in the episodes of Torchwood he wrote for being good, but maybe that's because Davis was on board too.
@@friendlyotaku9525 so proud they gave the show back to RTD after a couple of seasons.
@@RWoody1995 because no one else wanted the job and RTD showed some interest!
I heartily recommend Anji Kapoor, from the early 2000s Eighth Doctor books. She is an incredible pisstaker, never letting the Doctor or his other companion Fitz off the hook, but obviously caring for them very deeply. She is confident, assured, helpful and just generally hilarious - and was also Doctor Who's second ever companion of colour. She's, like... a real character. All three members of that TARDIS team are about equally competent - that being, not very.
"Graham didn't even get the chance to climb through caves in a short skirt" SAY THAT
I think something notable is that Moffat's companions, followed by Jodie's doctor, were very emblematic of the journey that pop feminism took throughout the 2010s. It's really hard to look at that era and not think of the pussyhat-ification of it all. A great example of how without someone with a unique perspective or voice at the helm, media tends to reflect culture rather than help shape it for the better.
You meant not be "wOkE"?
Oh this is super spot-on. So much of feminism over the last decade has been about trying to gaslight women into thinking that serving male interests is something they actually *want* to do.
What’s a pussyhat?
I'm generally neutral about 13's run (although I detest the children of time nonsense) but what bugs me the most is that I KNOW that Jodie could have done a marvelous job, if she had been given an actual chance. I will always argue that if there had been a female showrunner, things would have been better. I also wish that the companions were just limited to Ryan and Graham. Yaz was too much and too little, and while I appreciate the perspective of a female companion traveling with a female Doctor, she was superfluous and just bogged the story down (and we didn't even get that perspective of fem companion with fem doctor because they were too busy doing nothing with the story). It makes me sad that 13's run went the way that it did (it failed in my opinion) because there was so much against it, and so many people were just ready to hate it. It had the chance to prove the haters wrong and do something that had never been done before, but it squandered its chance and was painfully mediocre to bad.
while Yaz was underused in Series 11 I think she came into her own in Series 12 and especially 13 and she and 13 have some of the loveliest character moments together!
People too easily excuse Whittaker in favour of criticising Chibnall. The fact is that they were both terrible. A doctor who didn't like doctor who and didn't understand who the doctor is, and a showrunner who wasn't even good as a single episode writer. A good doctor elevates even bad material, as all doctors prior to Whittaker did, but now thanks to Chibnall casting untalented friends, it'll probably be another ten years before anyone risks giving a chance to any of the hundreds or thousands of female actors who would have made a perfect doctor. That's Whittaker's real crime, robbing a better actress of the opportunity to be the doctor and an entire audience of female fans an opportunity to see a female doctor stand equal to her male predecessors.
@yurisei6732 This is a long winded way of saying you're a misogynist.
"A doctor who didn't like doctor who" Jodie absolutely ADORES Doctor Who so this is a flat out lie, and Jodie is a brilliant actor to boot and did an absolutely brilliant job in the role!
@@yurisei6732 I think it's a reach to say that Whitaker is Chibnall's "untalented friend" I haven't seen it, but Broadchurch was well received. I did make a point of watching her in "Trust Me" and liked her in that part, and then I realised I had already seen her in a film I saw years ago, which must have been an early role for her, "Venus" opposite Peter O'Toole, from 2006. You can surely say that you think she was a bad fit for the role, or you think her choices didn't suit your idea of the character of the Doctor. But really, the fact that you don't like this performance doesn't make her objectively bad, or only getting by because Chibnell likes her.
What doesn't help is it's impossible to deny that making the doctor _suddenly_ female smacks of extremely awkward ret-conning of lore, even outside of the terminally online political sphere. People can pretend that the lackluster acceptance of this is down to misogyny all they like, and I might have cared more if the show took its science more seriously, but it doesn't make the move seem any less cynical and manipulative.
"the problem is we spent years deciding whcih of three men writes the best women" exactly! let women write their own stories.
Half the 13th doctor stories are written by women lol
@@leonconnelly5303 factually not true! the huge majority of 13's televised stories were written by Chibnall himself which was something he was heavily criticised for. even outside of that, there are only 9 episodes/specials co-written by women, and only three solely written by women. so I don't know where you got that info
@@eclipsa8467to be fair isn’t it sexist to imply that men can’t write women properly?
@@TeamTheme what. why would it be sexist to say that some men due to internalised biases often cannot write women with the same complexity or justice they do a man? it's a flaw and it should be worked on
Yes but then we shouldn't be telling men not to write women, that's how we end up with women just being side characters with no meaningful impact on the narrative or just the hero's spouse
I was sooo annoyed with the character assassination of the first doctor because he NEVER spoke or acted like that in his own run. For a fan of differebt stories, Moffat comes off as aomebody who actually didn't pay much attention nor understood it.
Also, thank you for falling "inside man" bad. I could not believe ny eyes and ears the whole time the show was going. Honestky, it was so stupid and the fact that the show was trying tp convince us how smart the MFC is, considering ahe was maybe one of the stupidest characters i have ever encountered on tv...
but Pay TheRapist!!!!!! (I unironically fell off the couch from that mix of cringe and laughter when I watched that show)
It was funny tho
@@leonconnelly5303 if you say so. I don't find threatening women physical abuse entertaining but you each their own.
Moffat was really out there writing feminism as just toxic masculinity in a dress.
Steven "how can I be sexist if I want a woman to step on my balls?" Moffat
@@jazzy4830 Hello I'd like to report a murder
This is like the mirror image of the 'red-pilled' mgtow-adjacent community whining about the toxic femininity in Girls, Fleabag, and all Marvel movies.
... OMG, you're right!
Wouldn't that just be toxic femininity? Or has the cult forbidden that word?
As i got older the romances in new who made less sense. At some point donna became my favorite companion because they didn't have the same romantic partnership and donna was allowed to have much more agency.
I didn't know how far this went with the Classic Doctors, but I've noticed a few times with the recent Doctors that regardless of the script (I mean even in the RTD Era, the Doctor got a fair share of kisses and was slightly more flirty) the actors all pretty much seemed to have understood the assignment. Maybe it was in the script or not, but from an ace PoV they almost always very much tick the asexual box, even if the scene could very easily look differently. (being married or some casual flirting doesn't negate that)
It's a shame how badly written Whittaker's Doctor is, because she played the role so well and I still can't bring myself to watch her seasons to the end just because I'm bored out of my mind. I just hope the coming seasons are gonna be fun again, please don't let the series die like this!
I don't think you can play a bad role well, she's a good actress but is she a good doctor? I just don't think she comes as weird enough, she's written without any real eccentricities and she lacks any sense of underlying pain which bubbles up as Fury
“Shoulder to shoulder group hugs that save room for Jesus” is truly iconic
You know what is a funny, but valid comparison to the show. The Magic School Bus! I always thought both series had a somewhat similar formula where the older teacher was showing the younger companion(s) new things and sometimes solving a problem. I know the stakes are very different though. Always thought that a female doctor would be like Ms. Frizzle haha
That's really lovely, I've never thought of The Magic School Bus this way, but it makes sense!
let's not forget Mary Poppins, it was basically the same formula and it worked
please let this be a normal field trip...
WITH THE DOC??? *NO WAY!!!!!*
I remember a lot of fanart depicting Jodie dressed like Ms Frizzle. Like A LOT.
Ms. Frizzle is a Time Lord and the bus is her TARDIS
There's a reason why series 1 and 4 are infinitely rewatchable for me, and series 5 through 7 are agony. For all his flaws though, I love series 8 through 10. The character study of Clara becoming too much like the doctor, and what that means I love, and frankly I love Bill to bits, even if her episodes are mostly pretty weak.
Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, good god is this a top tier video essay.
this is an absolutely fascinating insight into the psychology of steven moffat what a strange strange man. also thirteen's era will forever be a tragedy to me, especially because her final series abandons the "flat team structure" and really gets into the relationship between thirteen and yaz and the tension caused by the yaz wanting to understand the doctor while she puts up walls and keeps secrets (not about yaz though!!). also with dan as a kind of secondary companion it worked so well. we really could have had it all :(
Me and my ex got really into the show during Russel T Davies era. When we found out Moffat was taking over, it was exciting because several of his episodes like "Weeping Angels" were some of the best. We had a lot of goodwill towards the show. We just kept trying to get into it. I finally stopped watching some time in Peter Capaldi's first season. I had gotten pretty exhausted already by the Matt Smith period. The whole "girl who waited" just felt endless, like eventually you just kinda get exhausted with constant twists and turns that go nowhere- like endlessly circling a cul-de-sac. Same with Clara "impossible girl" conceit. Moffat just seemed dead on arrival, and I also tried rewatching Sherlock but that was also just so stale. I get tired when ever I hear serious and revelatory orchestral with aggressive string arpeggios. I blame him to some degree for that being in every "motivational" grifter pitch.
Well, if you ever wanted to pick it up again, season 10 would be a great place to do so. With Clara finally gone and Bill getting introduced, the show has a soft reboot and it's great fun. It'd be a shame to completely miss out on Capaldi's Doctor, he is absolutely amazing.
@@rkah6187 +100 for watching Bill's season. That season is imo one of the best new Who Seasons. It's just so good, Bill is a great foil to the Doctor, and her story is wonderful. Peter Capaldi gets a lot of time to shine. Missy's story is delightful. I don't know, just good writing.
I only watched it recently because I too had fallen off of Doctor Who after getting real burnt out. But highly recommend 👍
@@felixvelariusbos This is Nardole erasure and I won't stand for it :D Nardole is a great addition to season 10 as well
@@rkah6187Too little, too late.
I never felt like the things like "bad wolf" were exactly the good parts of the characters, so as someone who's rewatching for the first time in 8 years and just got to Capaldi's first season again... Like, yeah, a lot of that stuff predictably didn't land as well as it had been intended to. In general there's a lot of good ideas with Amy and Rory overall but they're not executed great.
If only Moffat had much more diverse tastes in women - then we could have strong and varied female characters, and he could keep writing Doctor Who with one hand.
I feel sarcasm but knowing the social climate now, I cant tell if it is
Perfectly put! 🤣
Where’s another hand?
@@nont18411 Inside his pants
Someone should go broaden his horizons
Great video, would love to see Russell handle a female doctor at some point in his new tenure. Even if it was just to bring Jodie or Jo Martin back for an episode or two and give them some good writing
Extremely good essay. To me River was just like Jack: An extremely flirty person for comic relief. I mean I could imagine jack doing 1:1 exactly what river did, and I would love to be in that timeline
But put together, this image of Moffat who mostly misunderstood feminism is too realistic. Hey maybe 10 more years and people can just write the story and characters, and then roll a D20 to see where on the gender spectrum this person lands.
If people need a "hot" companion in order to watch a show you probably just shouldn't watch it 💀 those old companion outfits are wild
It's not wild - It's just a product of its time. Remember it was being produced by "Auntie" BBC, during an era when sex was strongly taboo on TV. No-one was watching the show for the "sexy" companions, or even for the deep lore. It was serialised sci-fi, like Flash Gordon.
You are absolutely correct! If people need a hot companion in order to watch a show then they probably shouldn't watch it! Which is exactly why Doctor Who is now a dumpster fire with practically no viewership. Good job, Karen :)
Doctor Who was at its most popular with young handsome Doctor. Did you complain about that? I doubt it.
Everyone prefers to watch shows with attractive people in them, men and women.
@@dankee7421 did the doctor go around in little clothing for no reason? No? Okay good to know that's all cleared up! Go take your pills
@@rogueparagon9952 I think if I said a woman wearing a skirt was wearing little to no clothing you would come to her defense and say that I was the problem.
Also, there's an episode where the joke is the Doctor is completely naked, and another episode with Rory in his boxers while the army goes into his home.
One thing I actually like about doctor who fans is their ability to be self critical of the show while still loving it. Most fandoms when they get critical start to get spiteful, it doesnt seem as prevalent with who fans.
I think it helps that the content is so diverse (spanning decades with very different views of representation etc.) - it is easier to realize that different parts were done differently
If you want another fandom that rips the show and each other apart on a regular basis and yet loves it intensely, look no further than The Vampire Diaries. What a beautiful beautiful shitshow.
My favourite 13th Doctor moment is in The Haunting of Villa Diodati (written and directed by women) where she calls all the companions out for acting above their station - "Sometime this team structure isn't flat. It's mountainous, with me at the summit, in the stratosphere. Alone. Left to choose". It's like the mask slipping. More like that could've gone a long way.
That "bad girl in the TARDIS" made me physically gag.
I really loved Bill until you pointed out how much like Rory she is and now I can't unsee it. 😭 I still say Bill is the best Moffat original companion and that she deserved another season and Pearl Mackie deserves a lot of credit for her performance because I think she did a lot with what she was given.
... I still consider the differences to be much more significant than the similarities..
I really wanted to love Bill, but I mostly remember her as not particularly interesting or well-developed. I remember her stories but not her personality. Not Pearl Mackie's fault, of course, she did great.
Considering it was just one season she grew a lot on me I quite liked Nardole too, I found Moffats other companions decently written but with a lot of baggage and to be honest I found Clara and Amy a bit unlikeable although they didn’t shy away in some instances calling out their behaviour as part of the story. Bill was a breath of fresh air for me that helped give the last capaldi season a bit of a lift.
I liked Bill a lot and I always love when the companion has no romantic feelings toward the doctor
@@soapthesoap But that's a bit telling. It's interesting how Moffat's writing for women gets "better" the more chauvinistic they become? Vastra, Bill, and even Clara get to objectify women a bit.
Of course, the events of "Space/Time" are Amy's fault for wearing a short skirt rather than Rory's for being so immature. "Pond, put some trousers on!" is horrible and one of the worst lines to come out of the Doctor's mouth in 60 years.
I thought it was a very funny personally, which as a comic relief special was one of the goals
I don't know, I could have certainly heard the older generation of Doctors saying it to her. You think it is horrible simply because of when it came out, when it's the kind of thing the Doctor would say.
I just seen it as it was, a joke.
In fairness I'm pretty sure that was a joke.
I don't think many people are leaving that short thinking it was all Amy's fault.
It does kind of normalize looking up women's skirts, so I'd give you that, but I think Rory is moreso the butt of the joke in that short.
Of course it was a joke, people. It's a horrible one.
My husband really loves Dr. Who, but I have found that one of my bigger complaints is that the companions are (demographically) all the same. How much more interesting it would have been for Amy Pond to have remained a child, for the audience to see the world and the world of the Doctor from the point of view of a child who *trusts the man who fixed the scary wall*. What interesting stories they could have told about trust and the power adults have over children (sometimes without even knowing it).
When they introduced Clara as a Victorian Governess I was *so excited*, think of the interesting commentary they could have on *our* time by putting it through the lens of this woman from 200 years prior? She could have easily highlighted where things had changed and where they were (perhaps not so obviously) still very much the same. Because the Victorian era was an age of rapid industrialization, she could have been very use to learning knew machinery, even complex things (she taught her self to teach others after all).
I understand the companion as an audience surrogate, but I do kind of wish the role could be expanded away from adults in the 21st century.
The Amy part is what I find so creepy.Met each other when she was a child,and the Doctor treats her like a little sister but she's attracted to him.Also,isn't this a kid's show? What's the problem with a kid companion? We've had Adric before
This, I think, is what I miss most from Classic Doctor Who. There was so many non-human, non-current century companions (at least compared with Dr. Who nowadays). I always love hearing Jamie's (Scottish highlander from the 1740s) and Victoria's (young, wealthy Victorian orphan) reactions and opinions on modern day/future society or Romana's and Turlough's opinions on humans (which was namely, "Doctor why do you care about those silly humans and their stupid planet so much?") I just miss the different perspectives that that offered the show. I also mourn Victorian Governess Clara :(
Graham could’ve been an interesting companion for the opposite reason; he’s nearing the end of his life and he’s just lost his wife, and traveling with the Doctor gives him a new perspective on everything. Sadly, the actual execution of his character was… lacking.
@@idle_speculation honestly,having old people as a companion should've been always interesting.We've seen that with Wilf before,even with 10's youthful face.If only they made 13 did something other than "Sorry I'm still socially awkward." after Graham admitted his fear.I mean,I suppose the Doctor has gone through things that are a lot more painful and scary (forced regeneration,dying of poisonous radiation twice,literally dying very slowly & painfully twice) and has comforted people before.
Maybe that's why 13 doesn't feel like the Doctor to me.The Doctor is supposed to be this old,wise and knowledgeable figure despite of the weird antics.
@@nadiahapsari3359 I think an interesting way for Graham's cancer to go would be for it to actually come back and kill him after a while, which would be a companion death I could actually get behind. It'd take someone far more skilled than Chibnall to actually do well, though.
Someone has probably said this already, but at the end of the Utopia arc didn't the master literally choose not to regenerate, effectively killing himself minus the ring loophole, just to avoid being imprisoned by the Doctor and shamed into being good? And then Missy just... goes along with it? Yikes
I do think that Moffat’s tendency to write with one hand got in the way of some of the complexities of some his characters, especially in 11s era. I’ve always liked the idea of Amy having severe abandonment issues due to meeting this amazing fairy tale man as a lonely child who immediately leaves her, causing everyone around her to call her crazy. It could be argued that this is the reason why she sometimes mistreats Rory as she feels like he’s going to leave her anyway because that’s what her parents did and that what the Doctor did. If he really leaned into this side of her character and didn’t intersperse it with his own fetish moments it would have really worked. Unfortunately it often gets overshadowed by moments like when she attempts to seduce the Doctor (a moment which Moffat has since said was his biggest writing regret). I still like her and I think her relationship with the Doctor and Rory are both really good a lot of the time, he just needs to stop being horny at the same time he’s writing potentially complex character dynamics and relationships.
Please stop using that phase it makes no sence!!!!!!! Everybody writes with one hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😂
(Surely the expression should be "Type with one hand")
The bit about Bisexuality makes me recall my grappling with Bi characters as LGBTQ rep in media at the time. Logically I knew it counted, but most of what I could think of as examples where sexy women who might have one make out session with another girl and then have their characters revolve around a the male lead, or a very very brief joke about a the guys momenterily considering one another.
I'm not sure when I twigged but I remember seeing Vastra and Jenny and thinking "Oh ok, this is a writer thing".
In retrospect it's annoying this was the FOLLOW UP to Captain Jack Harkness aka. Babies first exposure to the concept of same-gender attraction because Section 28
Shit man, I worry we overhype RTD and overlook some of his writing flaws, but damn I am so glad I had it at that age. It's almost scary to think how things would have turned out for me otherwise.
I don't think anyone will say RTD's run was flawless. Some very cringe humor, fatphobia, some stories and monsters that didn't really land. But he came at it with all his heart, was never afraid to take risks, and made sure everyone felt like real people grounded in real emotions that gave the dramatic moments so much more impact.
@@combogalisI do think we are in the middle of a bit of an RTD nostalgic resurgence and I am worried that overhype will turn the conversation polarising. However I also feel that RTD's approach truly earned that fondness, despite both its problematic and let's face it; straight up silly elements.
Maybe a part of it is rooted in having been tired of RTD's era when it ended and hyped for Moffat, since his scripts so far had been so strong unlike the silly sentimentality of Russell's tinkerbell jesus.
By now I am so thoroughly unimpressed by sci-fi writers trying to show off how clever and so touched by RTD's continued dedication to character stories, that I am ready to admit that I actually liked Tinkerbell Jesus Doctor this entire time.
Martha's triumphant reveal uniting humanity and the Doctor's everlasting care for his old friend just got to me ok.
I think that's the thing, I ultimately have the most trust for writers whose main concern is ordinary people, because I've often found that it comes with a willingness to learn and listen to ordinary people. Not always but often, and when I see RTD's more recent work I still get that impression.
I still don't think that guarantees flawlessness but I do have an ever growing appreciation for the power of sincerity.
@@gota7738 I think now is the perfect time for a return for him at least. That kind of sincerity is finally making a comeback. People are getting tired of Marvel very much for this reason--it is always undercutting its own emotional moments with quips.
Meanwhile stories like Everything Everywhere All At Once and the new One Piece adaptation are taking creative risks, being highly dramatic, stylized, and sincere.
The thing is these things aren't flawless. Just like RTD-era Who, they are more flawed because they take risks that sometimes don't pan out, but they are more than worth it because they hit emotional highs that "flawless" productions often never do because they're too afraid to make mistakes and be called cringe.
I fell in love with Doctor Who because of those moments when everything manages to hit just right and you get an emotional high like nothing else. It's worth sitting through the ones that don't work as well to get those.
But yeah, anyone who watches the new RTD era expecting no flops is probably gonna be unhappy.
@@combogalisyeah, I'd concede that RTD's run is probably the least consistent, but the best episodes were in a different league in terms of quality compared to what came later and it completely avoided most of the bad habits that the show picked up afterwards regarding the companions and approach to storytelling, meaning that the worst episodes are not as egregiously awful even in cases where you could argue that they have worse issues in writing and direction than episodes featuring those tropes.
I'll take a show that takes risks that don't always pay off over a series that feels like it's too afraid of having characters be seriously challenged or conflicted about what's happening, even when it starts feeling like a vehicle for the show runner's thinly veiled fetishes. BTW, I don't have an issue with people writing their fantasies into a piece of fiction, but I do want there to be some effort put into it to ensure that the characters are affected by the events. People shouldn't be getting over things nearly as quickly as they do in later episodes of the show.
@@combogalis Yeah, I love that "One Piece" is just... itself. Luffy's a lovely little ray of sunshine, and Zoro makes speeches and proclamations, and Sanji (and the audience) cry when he leaves his father figure; and none of it is done sarcastically or made fun of.
Much as I adore Tennant and Eccleston's runs it feels disingenuous to skip over them in this critique in favour of treating them as some sort of gold standard for writing women in Dr Who. Martha is occasionally portrayed as a simpering sidekick playing second fiddle to a woman who is (as per your Loki vs RTD video) functionally dead. Rose is objectively fairly young to be in an explicitly romantic relationship with an ageless God and Donna has moments where she feels almost one-note (being defined by her lack of romantic interest in the doctor as much as certain other companions are defined by their interest).
I think Moffat's doctors are somewhat plagued by his desire to write (what he feels are) dynamic and exciting relationships with more romance butting heads with his knowledge of the show. There are moments across his stewardship where there seems to be a tension between the protectiveness of a guardian and the need for equal footing when it comes to a romantic relationship (something that arguably begins with Rose and RTD's doctors). The visual and emotional language of the doctor kissing Clara, Amy (and if memory serves possibly Rory) specifically on the forehead contributes, I think, to this "confusion". The lack of that vibe is a huge part of why I am so fond of the Doctor and River together. In the same way that Rose uses her limited knowledge to thwart the doctor's plans to send her out of harm's way, River literally breaks the universe to prove a point. The Doctor keeps things from River and lectures her occasionally but for the first season or so as they meet he is the one in the dark despite him actively knowing the exact time and manner of her death. River knows more than him and that isn't just a vehicle for her being sexy (though there are obvious elements of that) she isn't dominant in their relationship because they are on constantly shifting footings which gives them about as much of a level playing-field as one can hope for with the doctor. River's ending is arguably very disappointing, even if we learn that she lived a long and exciting life on daryllium and elsewhere before the end but that's the point. In the same way that happened to Rose, Donna and Amy and Rory. Travelling with the Doctor is dangerous, sure, but River illustrates that travelling at all is dangerous. She gets to the library herself and would have died whether or not the doctor was there. He "saves" her but he cannot save her. River is, imo, Moffat's crowning achievement as showrunner and I'm so incredibly excited to see where Alex Kingston will take her with The Ruby's Curse and any of her future projects.
This is already far too long for anybody to actually read so I'll just finally mention that Amy and the doctor's dynamic does shift very noticeably throughout their time together. To the point where their earliest dynamic is functionally reversed in The Power of Three where the gag is that Amy and Rory are parenting the doctor because he's still as childish as he always was but they've grown into mature adults. This is the theme of the first half of the season which culminates in Amy choosing Rory, wholeheartedly and unquestioningly over the doctor (and also river) in Angels in Manhattan. Now, if any poor soul has made it this far I will say I think this video is very well made and encompasses an impressive breadth of critical analysis, I just grew up during Moffat's era and slowly became disillusioned with it as it progressed so I have Opinions.
Exactly,I think of RTD not as a gold standard but more of a...bare minimum? Then it goes downhill after him.Which makes me concerned especially after watching the 60th anniv specials,where it looks like he's trying too hard to appeal to everyone in the wrong way,a mistake already done in previous eras with the companion romances.
I agree with your commentary on River.I've always hated the way they paired Doctor with Rose,Martha,Amy and Clara.But even though River is a human,she is as capable and as mature as the Doctor.
I agree with your comment and I have to say the part about Amy and Rory is very spot on and often ignored. There is a lot less focus on the Doctor in the first 5 episodes of Season 7 and instead we get a better idea of how Amy and Rory live their lives and how they overcome almost divorcing. I think in those episodes we see the major character development of Amy and her finally being a mature adult who still thinks of the Doctor fondly but stops idolizing him. Speaking of which, I think that episode with the God complex is also important to mention how Moffat deals with this theme and finally putting a stop to the idolization of the Doctor from Amy's point of view. And then she finally makes the choice of choosing her husband over the Doctor. Idk I just feel like Moffat did a lot of bad writing and I agree with most points of this video... but certain aspects of Amy's journey are overlooked. I started watching Doctor Who in the Moffat era and to me Eleven and Amy are the closest to my heart so I am probably biased to some extent but I just think compared to season 5, season 7 was a positive shift... shame it was only prominent for a few episodes.
The self-control that it takes to speak for nearly an hour about sexism in Doctor Who and not once mention "Kill the Moon" is so remarkably impressive.
To be fair, if I could choose not to talk about that episode, I would
I've not watched that episode in a while so barely remember but what exactly was sexist about it?
@@dreamfaller6372 It's actually too much to get into, but Sarah Z's video on the episode is an excellent breakdown! Basically, it's a 45-minute pro-life screed masked as feminist because the main characters are all women.
Kill the Moon was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. The episode that made me finally drop the show, after years of putting up with the aspects of Moffat's run that were just rubbing me the wrong way. I'm only just getting back into it now because RTD is coming back, honestly
@@AuraleafStorm Honestly, fair enough. Series 8 is easily my least favourite of the Moffat run. There really aren't any episodes I like, and "Kill the Moon" is such a deep low point for Capaldi's run. Honestly, watch the Eccelston, Tennant, and Smith eras, then skip to series 9 from there. 9 isn't a great season, but "Heaven Sent" and the "Under the Lake/Before the Flood" two-parter are worth it. I love Capaldi, but his run doesn't really settle for me until series 10.
On my first watch I really couldn't warm to Amy and actively disliked her for a while, but I could never really express why. This explains it perfectly. She was written as a male fantasy, and as an Aro/Ace woman she was completely unrelatable to me. The same went for River and the episode The Girl In The Fireplace (which was like a Moffat woman blueprint in hindsight).
I've never been more dissapointed than when she's introduced as a police woman, just to then be reduced to a kissagram. And then years later when we do get a policewoman, she does absolutely nothing, and has all the men be the action heroes instead. I just want a female character in position of autority based on resolving conflicts with some physical training actually use those things while in space.
The Girl In The Fireplace had the same creepy kid to adult Doctor dynamic, but the writing of a female character was handled far better. She was interested in The Doctor but didn't display any power fantasy or anything, she felt like an equal not a superior and she had her own goals and ambitions, they just happened to involve seeing the universe.
yesss i used to be obsessed with doctor who as a kid but i could never understand WHY i didn't like amy's character, or rather the way they made her. i love karen, she's an incredible actor but the oversexualisation made me so fucking uncomfortable. it's good to finally be able to put it into words
The most frustrating part about Moffat's "haha, bigoted First Doctor" is that the expanded media featuring the First Doctor gave him a companion named Oliver Harper, a gay man from the 60's who boarded the TARDIS in an effort to escape the police who were about to destroy his life because they found out he was gay. He hides the fact that he is gay from the Doctor and Steven Taylor because he is afraid that they will kick him out if they find out. Instead, when they do, Steven reassures him that gay people are accepted in his time, and the Doctor tells him that the crime is Society's, not his. I don't think that there is anything wrong with portraying the First Doctor as a little paternalistic, he is, after all, Space Grandpa. But turning him into a raging culture shocked xenophobe to make your writing seem enlightened by comparison is extremely shitty.
Also, hats off to Jonathan Morris, writer of the audio story The Bekdel Test, the River-Missy story that tries to salvage the mess Moffat left by stating that the (male) First Doctor had an actual, legitimate, not just "man-crush" but real crush on the (male) First Master, something Moffat would never have had the guts to do.
You've put into perfect words what we've all been trying to articulate since 2010 👌
I'm only 1 second in and I wanna applaud you for the restraint it must have taken to pronounce Benedict Cumberbatch's name correctly
This comment deserves a gold star! 😂
Benedict Cucumberpatch