@@igneousrock654 which is what the F-100 was susceptible to. The cockpit would fill up with smoke and the pilot wouldn't be able to see, and had no engine power
The afterburner also happens to have much greater efficiency at full opened position. Think of a rocket nozzle. It expands outwards. Another fun fact: the exhaust in burner (and most times mil) is actually at less static pressure than surrounding air. This is why visible shock diamonds form in afterburner, the atmosphere is collapsing the flow, and it bounces back out. If the nozzle got smaller instead, the engine would actually produce less thrust. And I don't know how long a Phantom can fly, but a F-16 pumps 200+ gallons per minute In a 3 inch hose straight into the engine lasting a glorious 16 minutes at burner (no external stores)
my dad was an f 18 pilot, and they flew hundreds of miles in one go. He said that they rarely use afterburner except in dogfights and special missions. They generally calculate the most efficient combination of altitude, throttle percentage, and distance to perform the mission properly. if they were flying far, they went to a certain altitude and had a certain throttle percentage to get the fastest speed possible with the lowest fuel consumption possible for each distance flown. It's a bunch of math basically. They rarely do full throttle, it drains fuel like crazy. On long trips over the ocean, they always had a reroute plan at any given position incase of an emergency or a storm. Basically they conserved a certain amount of fuel even if they could technically have a higher throttle to fly the full distance, in case they had a longer reroute distance (meaning they would need more fuel). I found it crazy that no matter what point they were over the ocean, they had a reroute plan.They also had a refueling plane fly with them. But in dogfight training and missions, they occasionally used afterburner.
@@timberwolf27 Good question. yes, there are a lot of storms (smaller storms) that fighter jets can fly either around, or over at certain altitudes. I'll have to ask him again, but I'm pretty sure they generally avoid storms and high amounts of rain if it can be helped. But yes, it would be very bumpy. The danger they have when trying to fly through or over a big, high storm, is not lightning or rain, but icing one their wings. My dad has had his wings begin iceing several times by flying over high storms or through a storm cloud, which if it continues to ice, becomes an emergency. And turbulence is the other issue, in strong storms planes don't do too well. I'll clarify with him though.
I once spectated F18 take off with afterburner, turn around and go supersonic over runway and shortly after request landing permission as he was running low on fuel. Total flight time was less than 20 minutes.. those afterburners sure burn fuel like crazy
@@Salesman9001 Yeah they burn fuel at insane rates. Most of the time they don't even use full throttle (I mean full throttle no afterburner). It's for going really fast for short periods of time, air to air and air to ground combat, and air shows lol.
19:30 the reason the nozzle expands is because rocket engines are most efficient when the working gas is expanded to ambient pressure through the nozzle. An afterburner is basically a rocket stage of the jet engine.
as s student in aerospace i agree with what you say: to resume it with a compressible flow (it's the case in supersonic flow) the more the nozzle have a bigger diameter the faster is the gaz at the exit, this reduce the pressure of the flow at the end but watch to not decompress under the ambient prussure otherwise the shockwave might enter the nozzle and destroy it
The Yak-38 9.3 Prem with the gun pods has a total on 99.05KG per second burst. I tested it in game. Built in gun has 160 rounds, so I got the 4 gun pods and selected them alone. After a few tries I got the ammot to exactly 640 rounds for all 4 of them. I then selected all guns and mag dumped it all and sure enough the all came to empty at the exact same time. For the record. That is 218.36Lbs/s.
how do you get 99.05kg/s? stat card says 49.53kg/s with all 5 guns. if each gsh-23L outputs 9.91kg/s as the stat card says with only one gsh-23L installed, that woulkd make 9.91kg x 5 guns = 49.55kg/s
19:20 you want to have an equal preassure inside the nozzle exit, than ambient to have the highest thrust. So with pumping more fuel etc, you have a higher expanding gas, and therefore more preassure at the nozzle end, than normal. Therefore you see (only at ground level) these shockwaves inside the afterburner-tail (witch should get fewer and further away, the higher you go).
17:13 alot of air combat simulator players who played warthunder have said that the plane you see doesnt always align correctly with how the plane really is leading to situations like this where it looks like its way off but in reality it is not Sometimes u get hit even when the tracers from a SPAA are way off samesituation Remember its a feature not a bug You just need to morb him next time and you will be fine
I agree with you about air RB man. I guess what you were trying to say is that it's too "arena-y". If the maps were larger enough to where the norm is that there are several separate engagements happening simultaneously, it would already alleviate things a lot. Besides being that much larger, if the terrains we had were more feature rich (e.g. canyons, mountain ranges, valleys) and had objectives like you said, air RB would completely resuscitate for me. For me, something like what many DCS World servers do would be optimal. A variety of SAM sites, infrastructure targets, convoys, ground battles, etc. Similar to what air SB is currently, but overhauled towards that DCS sorta direction. Or maybe have air RB be the current air SB with the exception of forcing full real controls, then overhaul air SB to go towards what I suggested. I'm just kinda brainstorming at this point, but y'all get the idea.
as it stands, air RB just ends up being the same rush and die or loiter and do nothing irregardless of which map your on. It might help if they added the ground RB points system. It really shows how old that game mode is... and not in a way that encourages good and interesting gameplay.
Ground RB could stand to have a few new game modes too. Maybe an asymmetrical point defense, where one team gets more spawns but have to assault a defensible position, or a convoy mode where they have to protect a supply convoy from incoming attack. Give bombers a supply drop loadout so they can make small resupply zones that aren’t dependent on having the capture points. Give the radar reliant AA platforms a radar station to link up with, that the enemy can target. Make the artillery a physical target on the map that you can destroy to temporarily disable.
Well, we're talking in forum about a marker-less RB (at least for jets) and people getting mad. The thing is if they give an event like that it will be for the best.
@@mhsbosco The logic of people disliking the idea is mostly based around that they don't like the "spot the dot". However, when we talk about modern jets with radar is not the case. Radar equipped planes need different things for their gameplay not to be repetitive and boring . Yet, most of those people refer to props or early jets without radar gameplay while you're telling them that the ideas and changes people propose are for radar equipped jets in higher tiers. Go in WT forum, Realistic battles discussion> Air Battles>Air RB experience has become unbearable ... Read and tell your opinion if you like. But since you are asking what's their logic, go see for yourself... It's interesting.
20:01 Ideally it could last for around 8 minutes with full afterburner, though they rarely used the afterburner for more than 5-6 minutes. this was one, to conserve fuel and 2, to reduce the risk of melting the nozzle flaps. Afterburners usually burn at 1200 degrees C, and the engines were made out of Nickel aluminide which has a melt temp of 1390 degrees C. So in order to not melt, or severely damage the engines, they had to be cooled off. it would take around 8-8 1/2 minutes to fully melt and destroy the engine which indicates the 8 minute burn time. Keep up the amazing videos Phly!
At slower speeds the heat from the afterburner would increase engine temperatures, but as you go faster with a higher fuel flow through the engines you would be cooling the engine. At a certain point if you go too fast the air resistance would begin to generate heat, countering afterburner cooling. Which is why ramjets for Mach 4 and higher are used in aircraft for those speeds. I don't have all the information present so I might be wrong on the Mach numbers.
Hey phly, your probably not going to see this but I just wanted to say, I love your content and just your personality and your ability to stay positive, I’ve only been watching you for about a year but I just don’t get bored of any of your vids, keep up the good content :))
I think air rb could be improved by having markers at long distances but once you close with in 5km markers dissappear. That way dog fights would be more like ground rb.
@@paprikallama8727 smaller maps ? That defeats the purpose of fox 1 and fox 3 tho.. plus the aircrafts that benefit from longer ranges would get clapped
Hey Phly, I've been a loyal viewer since about 2016/17 I must admit that I have made a great sin: I haven't watched you in over a year cause I got ultra fed up with Warthunder. I've come back to your videos now and I have to say - your quality is still extremely consistent even after all these years. You are truly amazing and I wish only the best to your loved ones and your dogs. Hope your house didn't have any more hail problems since last I saw you lol.
From what I understand from all the shows I've seen the gatlin pods were originally because the first f4's didn't have guns just missiles and couldn't close in dogfight. In later years and new versions with internal guns the pods were sometimes added with spray and pray unguided rocket pods for personnel ground attack close in support. They would mix a few rocket/gun planes in with a squadron of planes dropping alot of napalm.if it was decided napalm was not needed they sent the gunships in. My dad used to see f4s zip overhead when he was in the navy in vietnam. He was on a flat bottomed lst that went up the saigon to deliver tanks, trucks,suplies anything they could carry. Even bombs of napalm and agent orange barrels.
19:12 The nozzle area is increased during afterburner operation to limit the upstream effects on the engine. So basically it doesnt get bigger but rather creates more internal surface. Hope that helped :)
Supersonic flow can increase velocity through an expanding nozzle (think rocket bell or fighter jet engine in afterburner) where as subsonic flow increases velocity through a reducing nozzle (fighter jet engine at full military power). Which is why you see the nozzle get smaller until flow reaches critical speed (speed of sound), where the nozzle opens.
I worked on Phantoms back in the day. The maxTGT (Tail Gate Temperature) was dyno taped onto the gauge. I wasn't engines but i believe the limiting factor to reheat burn was that max TGT temp, each engine had it's own specific TGT. The engines were RR Spey's.
"Day 212: Phly, you should play the Hawl III Chinese fighter; 900lbs of bombs in a biplane at 1.0 that you can dogfight in after dropping. Totally balanced Two soldiers are always better!" -Leonardo Sousa
When Phly said thank you to the guy who suggested this videos idea, it hurt. I immediately remembered our friend here who tries to make his dream come. I hope that he will see it now and finally play the Hawk.
Used to have F4s do flyovers back in the 70s all the time -- they were stationed out of Niagara Falls AFB and it seemed they were buzzing all the suburbs several times a week. Noisy as fuck. Rattled the windows and shook the house and it was incredible as a young kid getting an air show all the time in your own backyard.
Third day of playing WT because of your videos. Moving thru the American tech tree nicely. The 105 sherman is very fun. Been having a good time at low BR so far:)
Suffering begins soon. I began optimistic like you, but at now at 6.0 US, I experience true pain. I cant describe how badly the 76 shermans are compared to german vehicles at this tier. (Germany is the other other nation I have gotten this high in)
Phly, the nozzles get bigger in full afterburner because of flow dynamics. A converging nozzle (narrower at the back) gives more thrust for subsonic flow. A diverging nozzle (bigger at the back) gives more thrust for supersonic flow. If I'm not mistaken, the shapes you see in the flame trail are "shock diamonds" from the supersonic shock waves in the exhaust stream....so in afterburner, the flow stream is supersonic and the jet opens the tail feathers to optimize thrust.
3:01 The gun pod was originally made and installed on the F-4 because the F-4 didn’t have a gun. Combine this with unreliable 1st generation missiles and you end up with pilots in perfect shooting positions and no weapons to shoot with. I guess someone decided, just 1 gun? Naw mate, ALL THE GUNS.
Only because they were forced to visibly identify that they were enemy fighters instead of firing their sparrows from miles away and allowing them to do what their intended weapons were designed to do.....needlessly costing the lives of many American air crews..... So a few unplanned civilian planes get shot down.... That has to be expected when flying into war zones......
How much fuel does an F-4 burn per hour? F-4 Phantom Fun Fact: Typical mission fuel load: 16,000 lbs. Fuel consumption in full afterburner: 120,000 lbs per hour. 8 mins But that's probably not taking into account of external tanks
Aerospace student here. At full afterburner, pressure in a converging nozzle is bottlenecked, since the total throat area decreases, supersonic flow may even be slowed to subsonic. Variable nozzles allow for optimal mass flow rate, as supersonic flow, as afterburning turbofans and turbojets often are, requires a converging-diverging nozzle in order to remain supersonic. TL;DR: it allows air to flow faster through the nozzle and increases thrust
I've listened to the song Phly used in this vid on repeat a couple times in the past while grinding ARB because it slaps, and for those who are interested in that song its "AGST - Fights" from "Epidemic Arcade" im telling ya if u enjoyed it in this vid u should use it like i do while playing ARB to give that emotional boost of a feeling that u can do it! or just listen to danger zone which also slaps... piece out.
Try #4: @PhlyDaily I've found a gem that you are looking for, the ZT3A2 Missile bus. BUT its at the wrong B.R. Believe me, take it into 11.3 and with the triple 1000mm pen tandem warhead missile, with third gen thermals and great speed, you can delete anything in your way. Its a case of, right vehicle, wrong B.R.
I’m in fire/rescue at an F-16 fighter wing and we love hearing the afterburners and seeing them at night is cool too. We just got a crew chief here that told us the F-22/35s don’t use afterburner because of whatever kind of thrust they have now. I’ll get to the high tier game one day I’m still running props, of course if I had the choice to fly I’d always choose a prop plane anyway.
I see Phly learned to count at the R. Kelly-Rob Lowe School of Counting, located in Weinstein Hall. Like “Oh you’re 9? Well that’s ok, just X that by 2 and I’ll put this Jimmy on! No problem!”
Just an FYI if you haven't heard a b1b (Bone) it's like 4 flight of F-4's at take off and the ground and buildings rattle from the force generated. 2021 I traveled across America and visited a lot of air bases and museums and it was a once in a life time trip. I recommend Dayton Ohio and Dulles Air Museum in or just outside of DC.
RealEngineering has a video on the Concorde and he explains that the nozzle needs to be bigger when the afterburner is active because the exhaust is supersonic and the larger the exit area, the faster the flow and thus the thrust. So a smaller nozzle chokes the afterburner and reduces thrust.
the nozzle enlarges to produce more thrust. if it became smaller it would restrict the size of the thrusting "flame". more thrust = larger "flame" diameter.
The 1st gen f4 had no gun at all. later this was corrected . The gun pods were for CAS for when the boys in the weeds needed some help. Many times teams found them outnumbered 100 to 1.
@Lugbor G I've also thought about ground RB being too "arena-y". My main thing would probably be having more time and space in matches. I know that not everyone can afford playing 20+ minute matches, but that's what arcade would do in that scenario. For me, the ideal fix would be having everything you said mashed with more time and slightly larger maps (adapted to the BR range you're in, don't wanna have enormous maps for tanks that can't go over 20 km/h). I'm gonna ramp up the imagination dial up to 11 here, but now imagine each ground RB battle is one of many cities/areas in a single huge air RB battle. The aircraft in their own air match can attack and be attacked by these ground players from different matches of their own. Maybe it's all one game mode in this case, fusing air and ground RB together or something, so you just choose at spawn time if you're flying or driving. Hell, on coastal maps you could even have vessels duking it out and/or supporting ground forces with their siege on a specific city or just objective in general by artillery support with main cannons. Small boats could get into cities with canals and cap flags that happen to be in range or navigate in rivers ferrying supplies for ground units. A man can dream...
Phly in the dev server, there is a new plane in the strike aircraft line, it is similar to the SU-17 but it can carry 4 gun pods rather than the three on the phantom so that might have a higher burst mass.
20:15 Modern jets can go anywhere from a minute (f35) to twenty minutes (f18) with afterburner and then the entire fuel load (including external stuff) is just gone. Thats why its only used for a few seconds in combat or with heavy load takeoffs.
Hey Phly, The reason that the nozzle opens is to maintain the mass flow rate. In very simple terms, when you increase the temperature and velocity of the exhaust (afterburner) it will create an increase in static pressure at the nozzle, thus the mass flow rate changes. When this happens it affects the turbine upstream causing a compressor surge which is not ideal. The nozzle is varied in area when the AB is on based on temperature, nozzle intake and exhaust pressure, and a variety of other parameters to ensure that the mass flow rate is maintained, thus the turbine upstream is unaffected. I'm no expert in this area so if someone knows more plz correct me hah!
To my understanding this is correct, but also it serves to increase thrust. Dry thrust exits the back of the turbine at subsonic velocities, and without going into fluid mechanics a simple convergent nozzle will do, kind of like when you blow into your friends' ear. when afterburner is added mass flow rate temperature and pressure increase and a simple convergent nozzle loses efficiency due to an effect called choking- basically the fluid (air) cant move fast enough through the nozzle so efficincy is lost. Engineers solve this problem with a convergent-divergent nozzle geometry also known as a C-D, De Lavalle nozzle, or rocket nozzle. Just like in a space rocket, this allows the fluid to reach ambient pressure while still in the jet pipe, maximizing efficiency and thrust velocity. Supersonic flows are funky things.
I remember that there was the old Flying Tigers event, which was P-40s vs Zeros on the China Valley Air AB map years and years ago. The interesting part was that it was done with RB flight models, which brings up what you said about Air RB on smaller maps without markers. I think that would be a great twist.
People are saying "Afterburners creat too much pressure" Yes that is true but think about the fuel consumption. A U.S variant F-16 with maximum external fuel can only last about 20 minutes with it on and the emergency fuel would add a minute or two...
afterburner is usually used for few minutes (i think 3 minutes max on mig-25 not sure* time depends on the engine as the materials used) before the engine start melting down, it's an additional part where you can utilize the remaining air since the mixture in the combustion chamber must be lean (low fuel to air ratio) thus you just inject fuel into the duct to create that extra jet gas expansion. and that's why when you put full throttle you see afterburner for few minutes then stops for cooldown.
Originally F4 didn't have a gun due to the missileer concept. Guns were thought to be obsolete. During Vietnam they realised that they did need a gun and so the gunpods were made.
I wish they would add realistic maps like that one arcade map with the crazy holes in the mountains. Things you can actually use to dogfight in and what not. It would be sweet
The F4-E is the greatest American fighter ever produced. I recently went on vacation and now display two photos from it. A photo of my wife and a photo of me hugging the nose of the F4 that sits on the deck of the U.S.S Midway in San Diego.
Short answer, to optimize the pressure difference to get more thrus; long answer: A variable area nozzle helps to adjust the exit pressure of the combustion gases to ambient pressure. When they leave the turbine, the combustion gases have still some remaining pressure which is converted into speed by a convergent contour of the nozzle. If the combustion gases have enough pressure to be accelerated to supersonic speed, the nozzle is actually first convergent and then divergent to achieve the best acceleration of the flow. The convergent, subsonic flow accelerates until in the section with the smallest area, called the throat, the speed of sound is reached, and the following divergent section accelerates the now supersonic flow further until its pressure drops to ambient pressure. This con-di-nozzle needs to adjust both the cross section of the throat and the cross section of the exit area. Failure to get especially the throat area right will mean substantial thrust loss in operation.
My grandfather is a usaa veteran in Vietnam. The Nozzle on the back of the engine is designed to take the heat of the afterburner for a Certain amount of time. But eventually it will get hot enough to destroy it
Do the A-10 with the two 20mm's, I'm pretty sure that actually is the height burst mass in the game. This plane has 58kg between 4 20mm's, giving them 14.5kg each, or 29kg per pair. Therefore, the A-10, with 37kg of burst mass on the 30mm plus 29kg from the 20's, would be 66kg.
The afterburner creates too much pressure for the jet tube; therefore, the variable nozzle opens to relieve the pressure gains.
And if the nozzle didn’t expand, then there is potential for the fuel to flow back up into the engine and reignite, causing a compressor stall
@@igneousrock654 which is what the F-100 was susceptible to. The cockpit would fill up with smoke and the pilot wouldn't be able to see, and had no engine power
The afterburner also happens to have much greater efficiency at full opened position. Think of a rocket nozzle. It expands outwards. Another fun fact: the exhaust in burner (and most times mil) is actually at less static pressure than surrounding air. This is why visible shock diamonds form in afterburner, the atmosphere is collapsing the flow, and it bounces back out. If the nozzle got smaller instead, the engine would actually produce less thrust. And I don't know how long a Phantom can fly, but a F-16 pumps 200+ gallons per minute In a 3 inch hose straight into the engine lasting a glorious 16 minutes at burner (no external stores)
@@thepilotman5378 a thousand dollars a minute
@@norfcarolinadude8179 morbillion morbs an hour
my dad was an f 18 pilot, and they flew hundreds of miles in one go. He said that they rarely use afterburner except in dogfights and special missions. They generally calculate the most efficient combination of altitude, throttle percentage, and distance to perform the mission properly. if they were flying far, they went to a certain altitude and had a certain throttle percentage to get the fastest speed possible with the lowest fuel consumption possible for each distance flown. It's a bunch of math basically. They rarely do full throttle, it drains fuel like crazy.
On long trips over the ocean, they always had a reroute plan at any given position incase of an emergency or a storm. Basically they conserved a certain amount of fuel even if they could technically have a higher throttle to fly the full distance, in case they had a longer reroute distance (meaning they would need more fuel). I found it crazy that no matter what point they were over the ocean, they had a reroute plan.They also had a refueling plane fly with them.
But in dogfight training and missions, they occasionally used afterburner.
hey like....how dangerous is a storm to a fighter jet, wouldnt it fair pretty well but just be bumpy as hell?
@@timberwolf27 Good question. yes, there are a lot of storms (smaller storms) that fighter jets can fly either around, or over at certain altitudes. I'll have to ask him again, but I'm pretty sure they generally avoid storms and high amounts of rain if it can be helped. But yes, it would be very bumpy. The danger they have when trying to fly through or over a big, high storm, is not lightning or rain, but icing one their wings. My dad has had his wings begin iceing several times by flying over high storms or through a storm cloud, which if it continues to ice, becomes an emergency. And turbulence is the other issue, in strong storms planes don't do too well. I'll clarify with him though.
@@timberwolf27 fighters don't have De-icing equipment and so storms are avoided because of it.
I once spectated F18 take off with afterburner, turn around and go supersonic over runway and shortly after request landing permission as he was running low on fuel. Total flight time was less than 20 minutes.. those afterburners sure burn fuel like crazy
@@Salesman9001 Yeah they burn fuel at insane rates. Most of the time they don't even use full throttle (I mean full throttle no afterburner). It's for going really fast for short periods of time, air to air and air to ground combat, and air shows lol.
19:30 the reason the nozzle expands is because rocket engines are most efficient when the working gas is expanded to ambient pressure through the nozzle. An afterburner is basically a rocket stage of the jet engine.
as s student in aerospace i agree with what you say: to resume it with a compressible flow (it's the case in supersonic flow) the more the nozzle have a bigger diameter the faster is the gaz at the exit, this reduce the pressure of the flow at the end but watch to not decompress under the ambient prussure otherwise the shockwave might enter the nozzle and destroy it
@@ralijerisonnaly6944 pressure is increased in a divergent duct. You are incorrect. Stop lying on the internet.
@@joshuameyer-fortner2304 that true for incompressible flow not compressible not lying sir 😁
@@joshuameyer-fortner2304 it is not about preasure, bud speed. Im also student of math and fyzics si trust at least to me
"It cost $400,000 to fire this weapon for twelve seconds."
AHahaha, oh my god, who touched sasha?
It is roughly 129(using simple math) or 142 thousand dollars for twelve seconds of 4 BRRRT
"a bullet of one of this costs 12$"
The Yak-38 9.3 Prem with the gun pods has a total on 99.05KG per second burst.
I tested it in game. Built in gun has 160 rounds, so I got the 4 gun pods and selected them alone. After a few tries I got the ammot to exactly 640 rounds for all 4 of them.
I then selected all guns and mag dumped it all and sure enough the all came to empty at the exact same time.
For the record. That is 218.36Lbs/s.
GOD
how do you get 99.05kg/s? stat card says 49.53kg/s with all 5 guns. if each gsh-23L outputs 9.91kg/s as the stat card says with only one gsh-23L installed, that woulkd make 9.91kg x 5 guns = 49.55kg/s
@@nightcleaver I will recalculate and get back too you
@@nightcleaver The Yak isnt in the tech tree at the moment. Is that just me or am I stupid?
@@curquhart5637 I own the premium one so i see it still, i dont know if it's been removed from visibility but i dont think it has
The A-10 with gunpods has a burst mass of about 67kg/s
Did he remove weapon accuracy module for that video? Without it it will be a wall of bullets
This Is the averange Weight of a Bulgaria woman. It shoots a Bulgarian woman per second
@@lanfrancoadreani9212 hahahahah idk why but this has me fucking giggling
A 3yrs old avg American kiddo per second
@@alanhoff89 you got 3 year olds with the weight of 67kg's????? im 20 and I'm not even 60
19:20 you want to have an equal preassure inside the nozzle exit, than ambient to have the highest thrust.
So with pumping more fuel etc, you have a higher expanding gas, and therefore more preassure at the nozzle end, than normal. Therefore you see (only at ground level) these shockwaves inside the afterburner-tail (witch should get fewer and further away, the higher you go).
Phly discussing nozzles: "Something, something, F4 nozzles, - something, producing more thrust."
...Phly also discussing nozzles at 13:02: "*Baaaaaaaaarp! Mmmm. - Mexican."
17:13
alot of air combat simulator players who played warthunder have said that the plane you see doesnt always align correctly with how the plane really is
leading to situations like this where it looks like its way off but in reality it is not
Sometimes u get hit even when the tracers from a SPAA are way off samesituation
Remember its a feature not a bug
You just need to morb him next time and you will be fine
to whoever that guy that kept asking phly to use the f4e and the 4 gunpods, your persistence has paid off. hats off to that guy
I agree with you about air RB man. I guess what you were trying to say is that it's too "arena-y". If the maps were larger enough to where the norm is that there are several separate engagements happening simultaneously, it would already alleviate things a lot. Besides being that much larger, if the terrains we had were more feature rich (e.g. canyons, mountain ranges, valleys) and had objectives like you said, air RB would completely resuscitate for me. For me, something like what many DCS World servers do would be optimal. A variety of SAM sites, infrastructure targets, convoys, ground battles, etc. Similar to what air SB is currently, but overhauled towards that DCS sorta direction. Or maybe have air RB be the current air SB with the exception of forcing full real controls, then overhaul air SB to go towards what I suggested. I'm just kinda brainstorming at this point, but y'all get the idea.
as it stands, air RB just ends up being the same rush and die or loiter and do nothing irregardless of which map your on. It might help if they added the ground RB points system. It really shows how old that game mode is... and not in a way that encourages good and interesting gameplay.
Ground RB could stand to have a few new game modes too. Maybe an asymmetrical point defense, where one team gets more spawns but have to assault a defensible position, or a convoy mode where they have to protect a supply convoy from incoming attack.
Give bombers a supply drop loadout so they can make small resupply zones that aren’t dependent on having the capture points. Give the radar reliant AA platforms a radar station to link up with, that the enemy can target. Make the artillery a physical target on the map that you can destroy to temporarily disable.
Well, we're talking in forum about a marker-less RB (at least for jets) and people getting mad. The thing is if they give an event like that it will be for the best.
@@UchihaMadaraGr marker-less RB would be such a nice step in the right direction, I wonder what the logic is behind disliking the idea
@@mhsbosco The logic of people disliking the idea is mostly based around that they don't like the "spot the dot". However, when we talk about modern jets with radar is not the case.
Radar equipped planes need different things for their gameplay not to be repetitive and boring .
Yet, most of those people refer to props or early jets without radar gameplay while you're telling them that the ideas and changes people propose are for radar equipped jets in higher tiers.
Go in WT forum, Realistic battles discussion> Air Battles>Air RB experience has become unbearable ... Read and tell your opinion if you like. But since you are asking what's their logic, go see for yourself... It's interesting.
Day 333: Of asking phly to play the dicker max because it’s 105 is basically cheating at is br and it can survive and they also moved it down to 3.7
Never give up dude ✌🏻
Jesus i hate that thing
They what now
YES, thou shall be done.
Paper tank with one trick - easily killed by reserve and any plane. "Cheating." I suggest a good gaming chair.
20:01 Ideally it could last for around 8 minutes with full afterburner, though they rarely used the afterburner for more than 5-6 minutes. this was one, to conserve fuel and 2, to reduce the risk of melting the nozzle flaps. Afterburners usually burn at 1200 degrees C, and the engines were made out of Nickel aluminide which has a melt temp of 1390 degrees C. So in order to not melt, or severely damage the engines, they had to be cooled off. it would take around 8-8 1/2 minutes to fully melt and destroy the engine which indicates the 8 minute burn time. Keep up the amazing videos Phly!
Phly, the nozzles have to expand due to the increase volume of gases when afterburning.
Yes!! We need more terrain in air rb. Would love more arcade style maps with large mountain ranges or canyons etc
At slower speeds the heat from the afterburner would increase engine temperatures, but as you go faster with a higher fuel flow through the engines you would be cooling the engine. At a certain point if you go too fast the air resistance would begin to generate heat, countering afterburner cooling. Which is why ramjets for Mach 4 and higher are used in aircraft for those speeds.
I don't have all the information present so I might be wrong on the Mach numbers.
Hey phly, your probably not going to see this but I just wanted to say, I love your content and just your personality and your ability to stay positive, I’ve only been watching you for about a year but I just don’t get bored of any of your vids, keep up the good content :))
I think air rb could be improved by having markers at long distances but once you close with in 5km markers dissappear. That way dog fights would be more like ground rb.
Honestly that's a great idea!
10km would be better. Or even 15km. 5km at toptier is like 5m
I think that air rb, maybe with smaller maps and with only team markers would be good
@@paprikallama8727 smaller maps ? That defeats the purpose of fox 1 and fox 3 tho.. plus the aircrafts that benefit from longer ranges would get clapped
@@RAPER_-jb7po fair enough guess I was thinking of lower tier aircraft and trying to make it easier for them to find each other
Hey Phly, I've been a loyal viewer since about 2016/17 I must admit that I have made a great sin: I haven't watched you in over a year cause I got ultra fed up with Warthunder. I've come back to your videos now and I have to say - your quality is still extremely consistent even after all these years. You are truly amazing and I wish only the best to your loved ones and your dogs. Hope your house didn't have any more hail problems since last I saw you lol.
He doesnt care lol
LMAO, 9 out 10 of viewers don't play WT yet watch his content
He is a father now in case you dont know
@@Deathwing21 That's amazing! No i didn't know thx for telling me
Love the content Phly, keep it up.
Combo time, non premium P61 black widow and m4a2.
Attempt 69 (nice)
Nice
nice
n i c e
Nice
Nice
From what I understand from all the shows I've seen the gatlin pods were originally because the first f4's didn't have guns just missiles and couldn't close in dogfight. In later years and new versions with internal guns the pods were sometimes added with spray and pray unguided rocket pods for personnel ground attack close in support. They would mix a few rocket/gun planes in with a squadron of planes dropping alot of napalm.if it was decided napalm was not needed they sent the gunships in. My dad used to see f4s zip overhead when he was in the navy in vietnam. He was on a flat bottomed lst that went up the saigon to deliver tanks, trucks,suplies anything they could carry. Even bombs of napalm and agent orange barrels.
19:12 The nozzle area is increased during afterburner operation to limit the upstream effects on the engine. So basically it doesnt get bigger but rather creates more internal surface. Hope that helped :)
I've had a few maps on Air RB that have canyons/mountains that made dogfights interesting
Mountains are so sick for dog fighting in props
Bourbon Island is the best example I can think of. That map feels like an Arcade map.
Supersonic flow can increase velocity through an expanding nozzle (think rocket bell or fighter jet engine in afterburner) where as subsonic flow increases velocity through a reducing nozzle (fighter jet engine at full military power). Which is why you see the nozzle get smaller until flow reaches critical speed (speed of sound), where the nozzle opens.
I worked on Phantoms back in the day. The maxTGT (Tail Gate Temperature) was dyno taped onto the gauge. I wasn't engines but i believe the limiting factor to reheat burn was that max TGT temp, each engine had it's own specific TGT. The engines were RR Spey's.
The screaming missiles get me every damn time. Love it!
28:00 can we talk about how clean that looked
"Day 212: Phly, you should play the Hawl III Chinese fighter; 900lbs of bombs in a biplane at 1.0 that you can dogfight in after dropping. Totally balanced
Two soldiers are always better!"
-Leonardo Sousa
One day, this will happen my friend.
PHLY, just.. DO IT!!
The BB 1 is a good rank one plane for USSR
When Phly said thank you to the guy who suggested this videos idea, it hurt. I immediately remembered our friend here who tries to make his dream come. I hope that he will see it now and finally play the Hawk.
@@DerNiker same..... mean i want this to be come a reality so bad
The backround synthwave jam is a slapper my dude Phly. Also, that loadout turns the F-4 into a point and click adventure
i love when phly plays air rb because he talks so much gibberish when he isnt fighting, its amazing.
"What was the purpose of 4 20 mils?"
Do not question the way of the Kerbal.
As my grandpa always said never bring a gun to a missile fight unless you have a lot of gun
Hey he did it
Used to have F4s do flyovers back in the 70s all the time -- they were stationed out of Niagara Falls AFB and it seemed they were buzzing all the suburbs several times a week. Noisy as fuck. Rattled the windows and shook the house and it was incredible as a young kid getting an air show all the time in your own backyard.
Third day of playing WT because of your videos. Moving thru the American tech tree nicely. The 105 sherman is very fun. Been having a good time at low BR so far:)
Suffering begins soon. I began optimistic like you, but at now at 6.0 US, I experience true pain. I cant describe how badly the 76 shermans are compared to german vehicles at this tier. (Germany is the other other nation I have gotten this high in)
@@whoknows8864 But..... gib free Abrams....
@@eddiemaciejewski9445 The freebrams is the sole reason I have made it so far in the US tech tree.
I only play low rank now high rank is just full of campers and spawn killlers and at 3000+ repair cost per vehicle nah fuck that lol it isn't any fun.
@@sleepyrasta420 What, you don't like losing 10k silver lions for every match you play when you have a positive k/d?
Phly's voice is so calming when hes talking queitly. I was falling alseep. He could easily do narration for something in his quiet voice. Or ASMR.
Phly, the nozzles get bigger in full afterburner because of flow dynamics. A converging nozzle (narrower at the back) gives more thrust for subsonic flow. A diverging nozzle (bigger at the back) gives more thrust for supersonic flow. If I'm not mistaken, the shapes you see in the flame trail are "shock diamonds" from the supersonic shock waves in the exhaust stream....so in afterburner, the flow stream is supersonic and the jet opens the tail feathers to optimize thrust.
3:01
The gun pod was originally made and installed on the F-4 because the F-4 didn’t have a gun. Combine this with unreliable 1st generation missiles and you end up with pilots in perfect shooting positions and no weapons to shoot with. I guess someone decided, just 1 gun? Naw mate, ALL THE GUNS.
Well wouldn't it also be used for mowing? You know... The grass? Yeah let's just say grass.
YEEEAAAH MOW ALLL THE THIIIINGS!!!!
Only because they were forced to visibly identify that they were enemy fighters instead of firing their sparrows from miles away and allowing them to do what their intended weapons were designed to do.....needlessly costing the lives of many American air crews..... So a few unplanned civilian planes get shot down.... That has to be expected when flying into war zones......
How much fuel does an F-4 burn per hour?
F-4 Phantom Fun Fact: Typical mission fuel load: 16,000 lbs. Fuel consumption in full afterburner: 120,000 lbs per hour.
8 mins But that's probably not taking into account of external tanks
I love how Fly is Yeeting one of me every second at the enemy.
Aerospace student here. At full afterburner, pressure in a converging nozzle is bottlenecked, since the total throat area decreases, supersonic flow may even be slowed to subsonic. Variable nozzles allow for optimal mass flow rate, as supersonic flow, as afterburning turbofans and turbojets often are, requires a converging-diverging nozzle in order to remain supersonic. TL;DR: it allows air to flow faster through the nozzle and increases thrust
Finally you posted another f4E Vid keep up the good work!
F4J woulda been better it needs love
That first look down shoot down at 5:57 war epic. lol
7:41 Isn't it more efficient to just keep the landing gear? I mean, doesn't the "gear holes" create a whole bunch of parasitic drag?
Sometimes losing speed is an advantage
Irl, of course. If its modeled in war thunder (and in every plane)? probably not.
@@filipersss idk when you open bomb bay doors in certain planes you slow down
Yep, I think it's modeled in game
It's kinda strange, even cockpits if left open fall of due to wind pressure so maybe there was so minimal drag that none could notice it
I've listened to the song Phly used in this vid on repeat a couple times in the past while grinding ARB because it slaps, and for those who are interested in that song its "AGST - Fights" from "Epidemic Arcade" im telling ya if u enjoyed it in this vid u should use it like i do while playing ARB to give that emotional boost of a feeling that u can do it!
or just listen to danger zone which also slaps... piece out.
Attempt 180: Loving the Unloved: Play the lovechild of a Spitfire and a Mustang. The beautiful MB5. You never made a video about this.
Try #4: @PhlyDaily I've found a gem that you are looking for, the ZT3A2 Missile bus. BUT its at the wrong B.R.
Believe me, take it into 11.3 and with the triple 1000mm pen tandem warhead missile, with third gen thermals and great speed, you can delete anything in your way.
Its a case of, right vehicle, wrong B.R.
back when you could fly br 10-11 without dying of emotional pain
I’m in fire/rescue at an F-16 fighter wing and we love hearing the afterburners and seeing them at night is cool too. We just got a crew chief here that told us the F-22/35s don’t use afterburner because of whatever kind of thrust they have now. I’ll get to the high tier game one day I’m still running props, of course if I had the choice to fly I’d always choose a prop plane anyway.
The scream from the missile was hilarious 🤣🤣
13:02 that could be a new meme ngl "*buuuuurrrrrrppppp* mmmmmhhhh M E X I C A N "
lmao the screaming right before 7:27 his hilarious
Where'd ya go phly?!?
I see Phly learned to count at the R. Kelly-Rob Lowe School of Counting, located in Weinstein Hall. Like “Oh you’re 9? Well that’s ok, just X that by 2 and I’ll put this Jimmy on! No problem!”
we never leave a teamate to dry.......... looks where he is @... sees enemies......you're so toast mcgee. lmmmmaaaaaaaaaooooooooooooooo
Just an FYI if you haven't heard a b1b (Bone) it's like 4 flight of F-4's at take off and the ground and buildings rattle from the force generated. 2021 I traveled across America and visited a lot of air bases and museums and it was a once in a life time trip. I recommend Dayton Ohio and Dulles Air Museum in or just outside of DC.
It’s a lot more complicated than that the nozzles I thought the same way until I saw a certain video which actually helped me understand it more
RealEngineering has a video on the Concorde and he explains that the nozzle needs to be bigger when the afterburner is active because the exhaust is supersonic and the larger the exit area, the faster the flow and thus the thrust. So a smaller nozzle chokes the afterburner and reduces thrust.
the nozzle enlarges to produce more thrust. if it became smaller it would restrict the size of the thrusting "flame". more thrust = larger "flame" diameter.
Phloppy no one has done a m103 vid in months and im starting to itch.
Im glad the f4e is getting its recognition it deserves
The 1st gen f4 had no gun at all. later this was corrected . The gun pods were for CAS for when the boys in the weeds needed some help. Many times teams found them outnumbered 100 to 1.
23:55 that fu brrrrt was hilarious and unexpected
War Thunder needs a guns only gamemode for top tier. Good old dogfighting in 11.0 with no missiles would be so much fun.
The mld would destroy everything until the f14 gets here. I'd still be down for it though
“The space shuttle, goes into space” - phlydaily
@Lugbor G I've also thought about ground RB being too "arena-y". My main thing would probably be having more time and space in matches. I know that not everyone can afford playing 20+ minute matches, but that's what arcade would do in that scenario. For me, the ideal fix would be having everything you said mashed with more time and slightly larger maps (adapted to the BR range you're in, don't wanna have enormous maps for tanks that can't go over 20 km/h).
I'm gonna ramp up the imagination dial up to 11 here, but now imagine each ground RB battle is one of many cities/areas in a single huge air RB battle. The aircraft in their own air match can attack and be attacked by these ground players from different matches of their own. Maybe it's all one game mode in this case, fusing air and ground RB together or something, so you just choose at spawn time if you're flying or driving. Hell, on coastal maps you could even have vessels duking it out and/or supporting ground forces with their siege on a specific city or just objective in general by artillery support with main cannons. Small boats could get into cities with canals and cap flags that happen to be in range or navigate in rivers ferrying supplies for ground units.
A man can dream...
The good old "we need to spice up this relationship" talk. Weekly events would be nice though!
why does Phly sound like my eye doctor 🤣
9:05 -> Flight of the Swallows!
Guardian Angel was with german piston planes like FW190 or Bf109.
I miss those events so hard...!😔
The nozzle gets bigger cos of pressure and lots of it!!❤🇫🇮
Phly in the dev server, there is a new plane in the strike aircraft line, it is similar to the SU-17 but it can carry 4 gun pods rather than the three on the phantom so that might have a higher burst mass.
"foot lettuce haha thats a cool name" what a fucking dad moment lmfao subscribed
20:15 Modern jets can go anywhere from a minute (f35) to twenty minutes (f18) with afterburner and then the entire fuel load (including external stuff) is just gone. Thats why its only used for a few seconds in combat or with heavy load takeoffs.
Play the concept 3 in the British tech tree, 4.3 and highly mobile. With a decent gun. It’s like a baby centauro
You could always make Warthunder ASMR, Phly.
Fun fact yak38t is 9.3 and it gets 5x 23mm cannons probably close to same burst mass or better
Hey Phly, The reason that the nozzle opens is to maintain the mass flow rate. In very simple terms, when you increase the temperature and velocity of the exhaust (afterburner) it will create an increase in static pressure at the nozzle, thus the mass flow rate changes. When this happens it affects the turbine upstream causing a compressor surge which is not ideal. The nozzle is varied in area when the AB is on based on temperature, nozzle intake and exhaust pressure, and a variety of other parameters to ensure that the mass flow rate is maintained, thus the turbine upstream is unaffected. I'm no expert in this area so if someone knows more plz correct me hah!
To my understanding this is correct, but also it serves to increase thrust. Dry thrust exits the back of the turbine at subsonic velocities, and without going into fluid mechanics a simple convergent nozzle will do, kind of like when you blow into your friends' ear. when afterburner is added mass flow rate temperature and pressure increase and a simple convergent nozzle loses efficiency due to an effect called choking- basically the fluid (air) cant move fast enough through the nozzle so efficincy is lost. Engineers solve this problem with a convergent-divergent nozzle geometry also known as a C-D, De Lavalle nozzle, or rocket nozzle. Just like in a space rocket, this allows the fluid to reach ambient pressure while still in the jet pipe, maximizing efficiency and thrust velocity. Supersonic flows are funky things.
I remember that there was the old Flying Tigers event, which was P-40s vs Zeros on the China Valley Air AB map years and years ago. The interesting part was that it was done with RB flight models, which brings up what you said about Air RB on smaller maps without markers. I think that would be a great twist.
Ki-43 was also in that event, got me all the P-40 skins back in the day
People are saying "Afterburners creat too much pressure" Yes that is true but think about the fuel consumption. A U.S variant F-16 with maximum external fuel can only last about 20 minutes with it on and the emergency fuel would add a minute or two...
The song around the 12 minute mark is Fights by AGST
afterburner is usually used for few minutes (i think 3 minutes max on mig-25 not sure* time depends on the engine as the materials used) before the engine start melting down, it's an additional part where you can utilize the remaining air since the mixture in the combustion chamber must be lean (low fuel to air ratio) thus you just inject fuel into the duct to create that extra jet gas expansion.
and that's why when you put full throttle you see afterburner for few minutes then stops for cooldown.
Do the F2 sabre! Bring us back to 2016.
I've seen photos of Phantoms carrying 4 gunpods. Plus they're own cannon.
F5c as a mig 28 would be a cool video
Thanks for your easy to follow explanations, one step at a ti. It makes learning less overwhelming!
that was a beautiful display of teamwork if i do say so myself
You are right Phly. It wasn't for aircraft at all. But, i am sure you know that already
Hey Phly! The A-7D has a burst mass of 57.58 but I don’t know if it can also have gun pods.
Originally F4 didn't have a gun due to the missileer concept. Guns were thought to be obsolete. During Vietnam they realised that they did need a gun and so the gunpods were made.
What about the U.S. A-36 at 2.3 it has gun pods
@@Illiterate243 Gunpods are used for many things. In this case I was talking about the short nosed Phantom II. The long nosed has an internal gunbay.
Oh yes the Guardian Angles mission was sooooo good
I wish they would add realistic maps like that one arcade map with the crazy holes in the mountains. Things you can actually use to dogfight in and what not. It would be sweet
You mean Halong?
The F4-E is the greatest American fighter ever produced. I recently went on vacation and now display two photos from it. A photo of my wife and a photo of me hugging the nose of the F4 that sits on the deck of the U.S.S Midway in San Diego.
OMG FINALLY A AIR RB VIDEO!
I love them so much!
Have a good day PHLYYYYYYYYYYY
Phly: it'd be cool if it was raining over there!
Server Hamster: {dies}
Short answer, to optimize the pressure difference to get more thrus;
long answer: A variable area nozzle helps to adjust the exit pressure of the combustion gases to ambient pressure. When they leave the turbine, the combustion gases have still some remaining pressure which is converted into speed by a convergent contour of the nozzle.
If the combustion gases have enough pressure to be accelerated to supersonic speed, the nozzle is actually first convergent and then divergent to achieve the best acceleration of the flow. The convergent, subsonic flow accelerates until in the section with the smallest area, called the throat, the speed of sound is reached, and the following divergent section accelerates the now supersonic flow further until its pressure drops to ambient pressure. This con-di-nozzle needs to adjust both the cross section of the throat and the cross section of the exit area. Failure to get especially the throat area right will mean substantial thrust loss in operation.
My grandfather is a usaa veteran in Vietnam. The Nozzle on the back of the engine is designed to take the heat of the afterburner for a Certain amount of time. But eventually it will get hot enough to destroy it
Wow that last game was a 1/1000000 engaging top tier air rb game
HELP I CANT STOP WATCHING THIS
@phlydaily did you know, that the phantom was called the "natodiesel" (at least in germany) because of the black exhaust jet in the early days?
Do the A-10 with the two 20mm's, I'm pretty sure that actually is the height burst mass in the game. This plane has 58kg between 4 20mm's, giving them 14.5kg each, or 29kg per pair. Therefore, the A-10, with 37kg of burst mass on the 30mm plus 29kg from the 20's, would be 66kg.