It'd be cool if you could measure spine consistency, both across the dozen, and across a few individual arrows(at several points around the shaft). I've found that is by far the most important factor in a dozen arrows being accurate. I made my own setup with a harbor freight dial indicator stand, and a good dial indicator. Straightness not a huge factor, even most .006 arrows are good enough when cut down to shooting length. The weight tolerance is the last thing I'm worried about with shafts these days. You have to be a top notch pro to be able to see the difference of even 5-6 grains, let alone a grain or two.
I just got a set of the 4mm axis match grade and there was a few that had a bad wobble to them I've never had that out of any match grade arrows from easton
Years ago, I went into an archery shop while traveling in Minnesota (Archery Headquarters) and asked a salesman for the best arrow money could buy. He sold me a dozen Victory VAP Elite .166 arrows with the 95-grain Penetrator half-out. I have used these arrows with Victory half-outs ever since. It would be interesting to pose the same question to MFJJ and see how his answer varied. Thank you for the excellent and informative reviews.
The dynamic spine I feel is the most important. This would ensure that all arrows leaves a bow exactly the same weight variance could have an effect if there was a large gap. Food for thought.
The dynamic spine I feel is the most important. This would ensure that all arrows leaves a bow exactly the same weight variance could have an effect if there was a large gap. Food for thought.
Would be cool to see you mess around with some Sirius Archery arrows. I cannot find a better quality arrow with how low their GPI is on their Geminis. Being a longer draw length at 31.5" and shooting 75-80 lbs,, they have been a life saver!
Yes! If you’re buying bare shafts, you already need the fletchings and field points. Why include and insert. Make it an option, not an inclusion. Well put Josh.
Keep it up on your videos you’re doing great I always enjoy watching them and learning more about bows and how to set them up, arrows and I’m trying to get into setting up my bow by myself because we don’t really have many places by me, I got some things but the presses seem really expensive but I do understand why they are that much and it might take me a little while before I get one
Would Love to see a vid on Indoor arrows and how to setup and tune for a shaft that is super stiff like the Vtac 27s, Triple Xs or the X27 Aluminum shafts
Yep. I don't use Victory's half-outserts that come with their RIP XV shafts. I use Easton's aluminum HIT insert and Gold Tip's XSmall Ballistic Collar with 125 grain points to build my 15% FOC arrows that are light enough to give me 280+ fps speeds from my 65# bows at 27" (measured - they're all set to 26.5" on their modules and cable stops).
Hey MFJJ, I'm aware of your appreciation for constructive feedback. Firstly, considering your affinity for tinkering, I suggest exploring the possibility of having someone with a 3D printer create a small block to ensure the arrow remains centered on the scale. Secondly, it might be worth upgrading from the current Chinese scale to a higher-end reloading scale for improved accuracy and reliability. Lastly, as scales tend to experience weight drift during warm-up, it would be beneficial to review the manual of any reloading scale for guidance on mitigating this issue.
FMJJ, wanna say thanks to ya, for all the gear reviews, good work. One thing I’m curious about, and maybe you have a good idea of, as much as you mess around spinning arrows seeing wobble and whatnot, Those 2-3 shafts you pulled outta that dozen. How bad are they? Like 3-4in off at 30 yards. Or more like 1in off at 100yards, I’m sure the 3 are all diff but can you look at a wobble and have an idea of what it’s gonna do based on experience?
One thing I've generally wondered about: what are the advantages (if any) of a hybrid aluminum/carbon arrow like this setup as compared to a high-quality carbon shaft? To me, these arrows seem heavy (at least relative to something like the X-Impact), and adding the aluminum core means they are more likely to permanently bend when striking a hard target or animal. Meanwhile, plenty of carbon-only options out there are claiming similar straightness and weight-matching tolerances, and can be had for the same or less weight (GPI) so that you have more options for buildout, FOC, etc.
For me these arrows are extremely durable, especially with the iron will system. I hear a lot of people talkin bad about how they bend, but never in the 3 years using them have had one bend. Last year, on a shoot, I hit a tree on a moveable owl target and that arrow was getting bent up and down all day and would stay bent while the owl was in place. I couldn't recover until the end of the day and thinkin on how bent it was when seeing it stuck on the owl I definitely thought it would be bent but to my surprise the arrow was in perfectly good form. I love these arrows and will never use another for hunting. For me these are the toughest arrows I've ever used..well worth the price..I've hit my cinder block wall multiple times without braking an arrow..and don't get me wrong some have broke as it's an arrow but by far the strongest I've seen
I agree 8/11 is not that good for this price of arrow or for a flagship arrow. Would like to know if I can call and have replacement arrows sent out to me? Great video other than that. Thanks Dan for screwing up the dozen 😝
Hi Josh just out of curiosity have you done the weighing without the paper by the scale or arrow shafts? I use scales every day and one thing I've found is the static on paper will pull on certain materials and carbon just so happens to be one of them. Just a idea.
@podiumarcher3744 Wondering if you have tried balancing broadheads in the same way that they balance RC plane props. Seems like you do a lot for tolerance in general, would like to see how balanced the broadheads are.
Can you add the components for x10 parallel pro to your website….and the size of components for each spine. Your website is difficult to figure out what components work with these shafts….and I dont really want to order them from Lancaster.
Not sure I can spend that amount for an arrow that I have already heard about bending issues from the prior generation. Sticking to carbon shafts and saving the $$ on that one.
I wonder how many archers can actually shoot well enough they can tell the difference between $250 arrows and the $175 all carbon. How many can tell the difference between.001, .003 & .006? Only a shooting machine could answer the question- does it really matter?
Definitely not me! When I have idle time, I find myself looking up match grade arrows. Then I shoot 20-30 arrows and tell myself “save yourself some money there, chief!” 😂
Agreed that you would need a shooting machine to actually get a measured difference in POI... but for what its worth I always want the straightest tolerance possible... for both my target bows and hunting bow. Its not so much that I will be able see a difference in the arrow impact making me lean towards a .001.. its knowing that my gear is performing at the highest level possible, so all bad shots are 100% on me. Maybe in the .006 shafts, you get a few that will shoot 1/8" differently at 50 meters... in the target world that is easily a few line calls and points lost. ... in the hunting world its less of a concern being an 1/8" off, but with a broadhead on the front, straightness does have an effect at longer ranges. For the average hunter, you are right though... .003 is WELL good enough for the vast majority of people out there... I just don't mind dropping a couple extra bucks to get .001 when I plan on using them for years.... I have that mindset with all my stuff... fly fishing rods, guns, bows... all of it... If I plan on using it for many years to come, an extra few bucks spent up front is a no brainer... At the end of the day lets all just shoot our toys and have fun!
Wish I’d have seen this before I ordered mine. Really disappointing to see that level of variance at that price point. I’ve been shooting a competitor brand and you don’t see that type of variance, but wanted to try something different. Bummer.
Is it a problem being over spined? I shoot maxima red 250’s and they are only 26.5” long. I pull 60#’s and only have a 27” draw. They shoot fine at long distance. Thoughts?
Are you planning on using helical? If so the aae jig is awesome and will steer any broad head really well with 3 fletch as long as your bow is correctly tuned! The extra weight on the back of the arrow is unnecessary.
No, you are both right and wrong at the same time. Fat arrows are for indoor shoots and many of us use fat shafts for 3d as well since its often in forested areas where wind is a non issue... the skinny .166 or 4mm shafts are used in outdoor 50 meter shoots as well as field shoots where wind is a large factor. Different tools for different shooting styles. You will never see anything but .166 in world archery 50meter shoots.... and nothing but 23-27's in the vegas/ lancaster indoor shoots. American Archery allows up to 27 diameter shafts (lancaster, vegas, ASA etc) ... and world archery allows a maximum of 23 diameter. Hope that helps clear things up.
Once cut all arrows should be straight. If you weigh your components like I do and match with heavy/lighter arrows, then all should be within a half a grain! On all the arrows I've ever built, I can truly say I can jus grab whatever one to use on an actual hunt and trust they fly exactly 💯 the same as the ones I chose to practice with. Every time!
It'd be cool if you could measure spine consistency, both across the dozen, and across a few individual arrows(at several points around the shaft). I've found that is by far the most important factor in a dozen arrows being accurate. I made my own setup with a harbor freight dial indicator stand, and a good dial indicator. Straightness not a huge factor, even most .006 arrows are good enough when cut down to shooting length. The weight tolerance is the last thing I'm worried about with shafts these days. You have to be a top notch pro to be able to see the difference of even 5-6 grains, let alone a grain or two.
Try the Sirius Gemini’s …… never have I had arrows group like these and been able to get over 15% fox with my 31.5” draw length. Absolutely love them!
I just got a set of the 4mm axis match grade and there was a few that had a bad wobble to them I've never had that out of any match grade arrows from easton
Years ago, I went into an archery shop while traveling in Minnesota (Archery Headquarters) and asked a salesman for the best arrow money could buy. He sold me a dozen Victory VAP Elite .166 arrows with the 95-grain Penetrator half-out. I have used these arrows with Victory half-outs ever since. It would be interesting to pose the same question to MFJJ and see how his answer varied. Thank you for the excellent and informative reviews.
I’ve the same arrows for my 8 year old Elite. Great arrow.
CARBON EXPRESS MAXIMA RED SD are so great I’ve have the victory elite as well but these Maxima’s are sweeter
The dynamic spine I feel is the most important. This would ensure that all arrows leaves a bow exactly the same weight variance could have an effect if there was a large gap. Food for thought.
The dynamic spine I feel is the most important. This would ensure that all arrows leaves a bow exactly the same weight variance could have an effect if there was a large gap. Food for thought.
Would be cool to see you mess around with some Sirius Archery arrows. I cannot find a better quality arrow with how low their GPI is on their Geminis. Being a longer draw length at 31.5" and shooting 75-80 lbs,, they have been a life saver!
Yes! If you’re buying bare shafts, you already need the fletchings and field points. Why include and insert. Make it an option, not an inclusion. Well put Josh.
Extremely helpful video, please keep doing arrow/component videos!
Keep it up on your videos you’re doing great I always enjoy watching them and learning more about bows and how to set them up, arrows and I’m trying to get into setting up my bow by myself because we don’t really have many places by me, I got some things but the presses seem really expensive but I do understand why they are that much and it might take me a little while before I get one
Would Love to see a vid on Indoor arrows and how to setup and tune for a shaft that is super stiff like the Vtac 27s, Triple Xs or the X27 Aluminum shafts
Yep. I don't use Victory's half-outserts that come with their RIP XV shafts. I use Easton's aluminum HIT insert and Gold Tip's XSmall Ballistic Collar with 125 grain points to build my 15% FOC arrows that are light enough to give me 280+ fps speeds from my 65# bows at 27" (measured - they're all set to 26.5" on their modules and cable stops).
American made is the best kinda of made, but I have two dozen Procomps still new in the box I have not even touched yet.
Hey MFJJ, I'm aware of your appreciation for constructive feedback. Firstly, considering your affinity for tinkering, I suggest exploring the possibility of having someone with a 3D printer create a small block to ensure the arrow remains centered on the scale.
Secondly, it might be worth upgrading from the current Chinese scale to a higher-end reloading scale for improved accuracy and reliability.
Lastly, as scales tend to experience weight drift during warm-up, it would be beneficial to review the manual of any reloading scale for guidance on mitigating this issue.
Show me one scale not made in china? 😇
I have looked everywhere for your arrow setup specs and can not find them. Was wondering what length weight and spine you shoot
Thank you Josh Great information Great video
Great review always honest
FMJJ, wanna say thanks to ya, for all the gear reviews, good work. One thing I’m curious about, and maybe you have a good idea of, as much as you mess around spinning arrows seeing wobble and whatnot, Those 2-3 shafts you pulled outta that dozen. How bad are they? Like 3-4in off at 30 yards. Or more like 1in off at 100yards, I’m sure the 3 are all diff but can you look at a wobble and have an idea of what it’s gonna do based on experience?
We just got these at our shop thanks for the info!
One thing I've generally wondered about: what are the advantages (if any) of a hybrid aluminum/carbon arrow like this setup as compared to a high-quality carbon shaft? To me, these arrows seem heavy (at least relative to something like the X-Impact), and adding the aluminum core means they are more likely to permanently bend when striking a hard target or animal. Meanwhile, plenty of carbon-only options out there are claiming similar straightness and weight-matching tolerances, and can be had for the same or less weight (GPI) so that you have more options for buildout, FOC, etc.
For me these arrows are extremely durable, especially with the iron will system. I hear a lot of people talkin bad about how they bend, but never in the 3 years using them have had one bend. Last year, on a shoot, I hit a tree on a moveable owl target and that arrow was getting bent up and down all day and would stay bent while the owl was in place. I couldn't recover until the end of the day and thinkin on how bent it was when seeing it stuck on the owl I definitely thought it would be bent but to my surprise the arrow was in perfectly good form. I love these arrows and will never use another for hunting. For me these are the toughest arrows I've ever used..well worth the price..I've hit my cinder block wall multiple times without braking an arrow..and don't get me wrong some have broke as it's an arrow but by far the strongest I've seen
I agree 8/11 is not that good for this price of arrow or for a flagship arrow. Would like to know if I can call and have replacement arrows sent out to me? Great video other than that. Thanks Dan for screwing up the dozen 😝
Could you possibly do an arrow build for us big boys shooting 80lbs 30 inch arrow that’s not 650 grains and having a good foc please and thanks
When you going to review the .245 arrows
Just went to website. You need to list that it would be a dozen arrows for 249.00. The other listings you state the quantity.
Hi Josh just out of curiosity have you done the weighing without the paper by the scale or arrow shafts? I use scales every day and one thing I've found is the static on paper will pull on certain materials and carbon just so happens to be one of them. Just a idea.
Someone small and Elkshapped. LMFAO
May I know your comments on Parallel Pro vs Avance arrows?
Really enjoyed your content
Great job
What do you think about these Carbon Tech cheetah arrows? They have a 7.9 GPI which seems pretty light.
@podiumarcher3744 Wondering if you have tried balancing broadheads in the same way that they balance RC plane props. Seems like you do a lot for tolerance in general, would like to see how balanced the broadheads are.
Can you add the components for x10 parallel pro to your website….and the size of components for each spine. Your website is difficult to figure out what components work with these shafts….and I dont really want to order them from Lancaster.
Easton claims a perfect spine all around 360 degrees, any way of confirming that????
How do you think they compare to the Easton Axis long range 4mm?
Wayyyyyy better..if you're looking a bit lighter then go axis long range but for durability x10s all the way!
Being from Canada I can’t find Easton match grade collars anywhere, do you have them yet?
Not sure I can spend that amount for an arrow that I have already heard about bending issues from the prior generation. Sticking to carbon shafts and saving the $$ on that one.
I wonder how many archers can actually shoot well enough they can tell the difference between $250 arrows and the $175 all carbon. How many can tell the difference between.001, .003 & .006? Only a shooting machine could answer the question- does it really matter?
Definitely not me! When I have idle time, I find myself looking up match grade arrows. Then I shoot 20-30 arrows and tell myself “save yourself some money there, chief!” 😂
Agreed that you would need a shooting machine to actually get a measured difference in POI... but for what its worth I always want the straightest tolerance possible... for both my target bows and hunting bow. Its not so much that I will be able see a difference in the arrow impact making me lean towards a .001.. its knowing that my gear is performing at the highest level possible, so all bad shots are 100% on me. Maybe in the .006 shafts, you get a few that will shoot 1/8" differently at 50 meters... in the target world that is easily a few line calls and points lost. ... in the hunting world its less of a concern being an 1/8" off, but with a broadhead on the front, straightness does have an effect at longer ranges. For the average hunter, you are right though... .003 is WELL good enough for the vast majority of people out there... I just don't mind dropping a couple extra bucks to get .001 when I plan on using them for years.... I have that mindset with all my stuff... fly fishing rods, guns, bows... all of it... If I plan on using it for many years to come, an extra few bucks spent up front is a no brainer... At the end of the day lets all just shoot our toys and have fun!
Wish I’d have seen this before I ordered mine. Really disappointing to see that level of variance at that price point. I’ve been shooting a competitor brand and you don’t see that type of variance, but wanted to try something different. Bummer.
What’s the O.D of the podium .166 titanium insert?
Any interest in reviewing exodus's nis arrows?
Is it a problem being over spined? I shoot maxima red 250’s and they are only 26.5” long. I pull 60#’s and only have a 27” draw. They shoot fine at long distance. Thoughts?
The CX Maxima Red 250s are actually 400 spine. So they are perfect for your setup. Not sure why CX calls them 250, very confusing.
Thanks for the clarification. Yea that is super confusing on why they do that..
Your point and insert weights will affect your arrow spine
If you can get a good paper tune your golden!
What is the lightest GPI arrow made. I can only find the victory 3dhv at 5.1 GPI in 500 spine.
You won't find lighter
If I shoot a fixed four blade, is it best to match the fleching as well?
Are you planning on using helical? If so the aae jig is awesome and will steer any broad head really well with 3 fletch as long as your bow is correctly tuned! The extra weight on the back of the arrow is unnecessary.
Is there any reason to think these aren’t just relabelled Pro Comps?
Why would they do that and drop the price? It’s a business and any business that I’ve worked for isn’t setting goals for less revenue.
Yes n yes..plus price was lowered cuz inserts are not available with the dozen
Work hard n your web site make it more
User
Friendly it’s tough to navigate
GPI seems high for what they are.
You must not be a hunter
I always thought target shooters used fat arrows not .166 skinny arrows, oh well, I guess I am behind the times
No, you are both right and wrong at the same time. Fat arrows are for indoor shoots and many of us use fat shafts for 3d as well since its often in forested areas where wind is a non issue... the skinny .166 or 4mm shafts are used in outdoor 50 meter shoots as well as field shoots where wind is a large factor. Different tools for different shooting styles. You will never see anything but .166 in world archery 50meter shoots.... and nothing but 23-27's in the vegas/ lancaster indoor shoots. American Archery allows up to 27 diameter shafts (lancaster, vegas, ASA etc) ... and world archery allows a maximum of 23 diameter. Hope that helps clear things up.
Small and Elk Shapeish. LOL. I wonder who that is?
Shoot just send me the imperfect ones, I’m sure they would not affect my accuracy. 😂
Mistakes for that kind of $ is bullshit 100% not acceptable.
3/11 being no good is terrible on this level of arrow. I don't think it matters that 8 were as specified. These are just another 73% good arrow.
Once cut all arrows should be straight. If you weigh your components like I do and match with heavy/lighter arrows, then all should be within a half a grain! On all the arrows I've ever built, I can truly say I can jus grab whatever one to use on an actual hunt and trust they fly exactly 💯 the same as the ones I chose to practice with. Every time!
This arrow is made to kill them $10,000 bucks.