Mark Messier on Alex Ovechkin chasing Wayne Gretzky’s record & 1990 Stanley Cup | The Drop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2022
- Mark Messier joins ESPN’s The Drop to look back at his memorable Stanley Cup winning moments, the 1990 Stanley Cup with the Edmonton Oilers, Alex Ovechkin’s quest to break Wayne Gretzky’s scoring record and Ovi being an MVP candidate at 36.
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Mark Messier knows hockey. He was a beast on ice. 5 stanley cups!
As much as people don't/didn't like Messier as a player, I think he's an amazing person. His conduct inspires humility in myself and I'm sure, others.
I hope he does it, he is a phenomenal athlete and it's good for the sport for guys like him to get that recognition on the record books since he did so much to grow this sport
He will im sure. He is soooo close already he has to do it
He "was" a phenomenal Athlete. 2024 playoffs showed he is a shell now. He is all in to break the goals record and cares for nothing else. To the detriment to his team. I'd hate to be a Capitals GM hampered by this albatross.
Ovi will finish this season with roughly 825 goals. Let's say he gets 38 next season, and 32 the season after. Pretty easy numbers for him. That puts him at 895 goals with a whole season left. Even if he averaged 25 goals over his last 3 seasons (super easy numbers for him) he'd be at 900. GO OVI !!!!!!!!
He will still be 2 careers away from total points
@@dspsblyuth Well 1 career away from total points. But he most likely will pass Gretzky for all time goals
@@mikebennett146 average careers
He’s exactly 99 behind Wayne today! Lol ironically
I think he will break it
What a true leader mess is. True legend of the sport
The average league performance after 2005 (when Ovechkin joined the NHL) is significantly lower than in the 1980s and early 1990s. In the 80s, the performance per match ranged from 7 to 8 goals, and the most “fun” season was the 1981/82 championship - 8.03 goals (it was in that year that Gretzky set an all-time record - 92 goals in the regular season). In the first half of the 90s, the performance in the NHL was slowly declining (with the exception of the 1992/93 championship), and in the 1996/97 season there was a sharp decrease in this indicator - to 5.83 goals per game. In the 2003/04 regular season, the performance dropped to a terrible 5.14 goals.
This may be due to increased competition in the NHL. After the collapse of the USSR, many hockey players who played in the countries of the Warsaw Pact moved to play in the NHL. The best players on the planet are playing in North America right now. During the Gretzky era, there were almost no Europeans in the NHL. In the 1983/84 season. Only 50 foreigners played in the NHL.
Ovechkin came into the league during the "dead puck era," playing against bigger, faster goaltenders who are equipped to look like they're working as fighting dog training dummies. The defenders have also become very large. Gretzky scored half of his goals on some skinny, dangling fools who jumped 5 meters out of the “frame”, trying to cut the corner, and then fell onto the ice.
In the 1988-1989 season. in the regular season of the NHL, 1 field player from the countries of the former USSR played, after the collapse of the USSR in the 1991-1992 season. 24 field players played in the 1993-1994 season. - 63, and in 2003/04. - 71. As can be seen from the figures, the higher the field players from the countries of the former USSR played, the lower the performance in the NHL. The performance is correlated with the number of players playing in the NHL from the countries of the former USSR.
From 1975 to 1991, the clubs of the USSR played 108 matches with the teams of the National Hockey League. During this time, the clubs of the USSR won 58 victories, 10 matches ended in a draw and lost 40 times to the representatives of the NHL.
In 1990/91 USSR clubs won 17 times against NHL clubs, lost 8 times and drew 3 times. This indicates the high competitiveness of Soviet hockey players.
Meetings of the owner of the Stanley Cup with the champion of the USSR, who became in the season in which the match took place:
12/29/1979 New York Islanders - CSKA - 2:3
12/31/1985 Montreal Canadiens - CSKA - 1:6
01/12/1991 Pittsburgh Penguins - Dynamo (Moscow) - 3:4
For example, the results of the teams in which Gretzky played at that time against the teams of the USSR:
01/04/1980 Edmonton Oilers - Dynamo (Moscow) - 1:4
12/27/1985 Edmonton Oilers - CSKA - 3:6
12/31/1988 Los Angeles Kings - Dynamo (Riga) - 3:5
12/04/1989 Los Angeles Kings - Khimik (Voskresensk) - 3:6
12/03/1990 Los Angeles Kings - Khimik (Voskresensk) - 5:1
Also, the symbolic team of the century included 4 players who played in the USSR championships and 2 players who played in the NHL. The six members of the symbolic team were chosen by voting organized by the IIHF. The selection committee included 56 hockey experts from 16 countries in Europe and North America.
Symbolic team of the century:
Goalkeeper: Vladislav Tretiak (USSR) - 30 votes.
Defender: Vyacheslav Fetisov (USSR) - 54 votes.
Defender: Börje Salming (Sweden) - 17 votes.
Wing: Valery Kharlamov (USSR) - 21 votes.
Wing: Sergei Makarov (USSR) - 18 votes.
Center forward: Wayne Gretzky (Canada) - 38 votes
Ovechkin played in the NHL with more competition than Gretzky. But you can compare the results of these players, at the time when the Soviet players started playing in the NHL.
Gretzky played 373 games in the NHL from 1993 to 1998 and scored 120 goals (averaging 0.32 goals per game) at the age of 32-36. Ovechkin, aged 32-36 (from 2017 to 2022), played 353 games in the NHL and scored 222 goals (an average of 0.63 goals per game).
Gretzky played 721 NHL games and scored 302 goals from 1988 to 1998 (averaging 0.42 goals per game) at the age of 27-36. Ovechkin, aged 27-36 (from 2012 to 2022), played 721 games in the NHL and scored 441 goals (an average of 0.61 goals per game).
During these periods, Ovechkin won against Gretzky in the number of goals scored.
In addition, rules contributed to increased performance in the 1980s. Goalkeepers wore narrow shin guards, less sturdy helmets, and play skates, rather than goalie skates, as they are now. Video replays in the league were introduced only in 1991, when Gretzky had already crossed the equator of his career and stopped scoring goals with automatic bursts. In 1993, they changed the rules for playing with a high stick - it was forbidden to lift it above the crossbar, and before that it was allowed to swing up to the shoulder. In 1996, when Gretzky was three years away from retiring from the sport, a trapezoid was introduced - they outlined a section of ice on which the field was forbidden to contact the goalkeepers.
Ovechkin also won against Gretzky in the number of seasons in which they became the best scorers.
Number of seasons in which the player became the best scorer:
1. Alexander Ovechkin - 9 seasons
2. Bobby Hull - 7 seasons
3. Phil Esposito - 6 seasons
4. Wayne Gretzky - 5 seasons
5. Gordie Howe - 5 seasons
6. Maurice Richard - 5 seasons
7. Charlie Conacher - 5 seasons
8. Pavel Bure - 3 seasons
9. Teemu Selanne - Season 3
10. Mario Lemieux - 3 seasons
11. Brett Hull - 3 seasons
12. Bill Cook - 3 seasons
13. Babe Dy - 3 seasons
Wayne Gretzky never became the best sniper after 1991, that is, when, after the collapse of the USSR and the Warsaw Pact, European players poured into the NHL (the number of Europeans in the NHL became more than 5 times), and the competition in the NHL itself increased! And Gretzky's performance dropped noticeably. Wayne Gretzky himself said in an interview that it’s harder to score now than when he was playing (I quote him: “To score 13 goals now - and this is just my opinion - is much more difficult than to score 15 goals, as I did in '93. ").
Ovechkin plays at a time when the NHL became the strongest league in the world, and Gretzky scored the most goals in the 80s, and at that time, as the results of the matches and the composition of the symbolic team of the century showed, the USSR championship was the strongest league in the world.
I remember watching those nhl soviet club games. We loaded up the squad with players from other teams. So cska would have 2-3 real good players from Spartak or Krylya Sovetov and so on. So that statistic gotta be taken with a grain of salt. Other then that stand by your logic
@@dmitriyosmantsev7603 Эти игроки не переставали быть из России . И потом разве это так важно, когда в Америке и Канаде утверждали что их игроки лучшие в мире.
@@qwertqwerty5764 вопрос об уровне клубного хоккея. Например кто сильней обладатель кубка Стенли или чемпион СССР. Если чемпион СССР усилен несколькими сильными игроками из других команд, то сравнение не совсем корректно
@@dmitriyosmantsev7603 In the 1990/1991 season, the clubs of the USSR, when playing with NHL clubs, were not strengthened by players from other teams.
In 1990/91 USSR clubs won 17 times against NHL clubs, lost 8 times and drew 3 times.
In addition, in the 1990/1991 season, 14 Soviet hockey players already played in the NHL, including Sergei Fedorov, Sergei Makarov, Alexander Mogilny, Alexei Kasatonov, Igor Larionov, Vyacheslav Fetisov.
@@dmitriyosmantsev7603 Meetings of the owner or finalist of the Stanley Cup with the champion or silver medalist of the USSR championship in matches without reinforcement by players from other clubs:
01/09/1990 Boston Bruins - Dynamo (Moscow) - 1: 3
09/13/1990 Spartak (Moscow) - Minnesota North Stars - 8: 3
01/12/1991 Pittsburgh Penguins - Dynamo (Moscow) - 3: 4
The victory of the Soviet clubs with a score of 3:0
Messier’s humility is so great to see.
Only cause the producers are forcing him to keep his elbows down
Heard he r*ped Pavel Bure
As a long time Oiler fan from Alberta....I'd like to say thank you Mark...and to be honest..the 90 cup was far and away my favorite...because they all said it couldn't
be done.
Screw the 90 cup, flames did it in 89 without a gretzky or a messier 🤪
Lets hope we witness history being made again
OVI GO CLUB 800 !!!!!
Ovechkin will still be 42 shooting pucks at back of net
Because you know how he will age?
Mess was a deadly Player...he was the guy you wanted on your team regardless👊👊
822 now🤯
What Mark says about approaching forty is true for all men, not just athletes. Age 40 is a turning point where strength and longevity decline. Ovi nèds to maximize now, and not count on the years ahead.
I'm wondering where the slow down is? He just scored 42 goals this Season in 73 games at age 37. He'll be 38 years old sept 17, 2023... Maybe he'll score 50 goals next season.
Now needs 44 more goals to hit 895
Mike Bossy !! Mic drop
Jan 1---2023--- 89 goals && counting. All else being equal he cd get 950
I met him
hand triangle ... one of the "club" (nudge nudge wink wink)
They talk about Gretzky playing in a higher goals per game era... fair enough... But guys like Howe, Hull, the Rocket, also played less games per season... For that reason & others, they're under-rated in my books... The Golden Brett, especially with Oates feeding him the puck, was a great goal scorer, had maybe the best one-timer ever... But I see many lists where Bobby is ranked below Brett and I have to shake my head, cause there's no friggen way... Add Howe & Hull's (and Wayne's) WHA & NHL totals, and all 3 are light-years beyond anyone else... What's that got to do with Ovie?... Just that some all time greats get under-rated by young whippersnappers... Plus, and we see this with Ovie too, it's tough to compare players of different eras (apples vs oranges)
Well, he got 50. Could not asked for more. Had he scored 30, then it would be ?? 40 this upcoming and he should have it. WNts 50 to have ten 50 seasons.
The pastor should learn how to spell and proofread his previous text....
Father Quido Sarducci..
I truly hope Ovechkin doesn't hang on too long just to break the record. He looks tired and old at this point. His post season performance this year was simply embarrassing. He is done.
Turns out they *could win without Wayne; All you need is the rest of the westen conference all stars on one team...lol
Great clip. Mark is amazing still so classy and straight forward. Ok now for real…what’s with the set?!?! Please just have a coffee table and some comfortable chairs. Looks like some whacked out NFL goofy set….just waiting for the Koolaid guy to bust through the oversized spaces wall. Also casual tshirt and kakis….not sweatpants and hoodie this ain’t MTV cribs is it?! My blunt 2 cents to help a corporation not look so Hollywood but real people talking real talk is what we want not your blinged out hype drama NBA/NFL/NBA….why would you emulate such a disaster unless CCP got their hook in you too.
Yeah, a Hall of Fame player visits you, and HE wears a collared shirt and sport jacket, and you guys look like a couple of schlubs???🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Idk there are insiders claiming he r*ped Pavel Bure and that's why he demanded a trade. Not very classy
Captain Elbows, Messier.
Actually that was the great Geordie Howe
@@Ann12681 Howe was Mr. Elbows. I promoted Messier to Captain Elbows.
@@ericmyers3561 I stand corrected. Loved your reply. I miss that whole era of hockey .
@@Ann12681 Same here.
Captain R*pist, Messier
Hey brothers and sisters....
All the best to brother Alex..
But remember, he was one of the dirtiest players...cheap shots...
Suspensions etc...
Gretzky was clsssy and Alex is gaining integrity with age for sure...
Perhaps, having a good wife and cutting down on the sause helped him...
God bless and keep Alex healthy...
Pastor Tommy
Ovi is a dirty player? Are you insane?
Ovie is a saint compared to Messier. Gretzky was the biggest whiner out there for years too. Gordie Howe “Mr. Hockey was also known for creating space for himself with let’s just say non Lady Bing like tactics. Just because he’s not Canadian he gets called dirty. Oh yea Bobby Clarke another hard nosed player.
A most ignorant, presumptive comment. And followed with Pastor. You have some deep diving to do you arrogant ass.
I dont see it happening now, he's really dropped off after that unbelievable start for his age. I see next year a major step back in his production and the year after even more. Wont happen
He still has a his season-stand 0.6+ GPG, just like in his entire career. The only reason he can't beat the record is external factors - Covid, lockouts, politics etc.
If he hits 50 this season then he needs to average 28.5 goals over the last 4 years of his contract to hit 894.
ya he will do it.....even if down 30 a year....he should catch wayne barring no real serious injuries.......im gretzkys biiggest fan and like him i agree......breaking records is good for hockey
@@barrymacfarlane8977 Well said Barry. Hopefully one day another player comes along and beats Ovechkin's totals too.
@Dean Mason he has 10 empty net goals. If he has to cherry pick and cheat for cheap goals, and the coach helps him to try and catch Gretzky... sure he might be able to. But Gretzky didnt have to do that. Gretzky scored far more assist than goals and wasnt cheating for offence.
Big difference is Gretzky made these records just playing the game , ovechkin is going out of his way to try to beat the record WITH the help of his teammates.....Tom Wilson's comment to the flyers says it all ....ovechkin isn't even half the player Gretzky was
League today is levels above when he was playing😂 goalies in todays game are actually TALENTED not just some plumbers and farmers
@@cesar9572 .....the level was down all around not just goalies ...skating speed , shot speed , so whats your point ....if it was simply about level then everyone would have high scoring stats
Different era, different time, different styles, different skill levels. That's like comparing Bobby Orr to Gretzky. Each generation players get better by learning from the previous one. Not half the player? Now you lying.
@@toulee313 - the difference is Gretzky wasn’t even focussing on goals. He was a “pass-first” player. If you take away every one of Gretzky’s record 894 goals, he would still be the all-time points leader with his assists alone. Gretzky is the only player in history who could make scoring a record 894 goals seem like an afterthought haha
@@michaelgriffiths8068 in an Era where 99% of goalies stood tall with small pads. Nothing against Gretzky, he was way ahead of his time and is the greatest but Ovechkin is hands down the greatest goal scorer of all time.
messier has an antiquated view on age. conditioning is so good these days.
I see you have zero understanding of human physiology.
Стиль игры Овечкина заразителен. Вот спросите зрителей на выбор, кого Гретцки или Овечкина они хотели бы смотреть.