'Doctrine That Divides', BBC Omnibus Exclusive Brethren documentary, 1976
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.พ. 2018
- Rare copy of an early BBC documentary about the Exclusive Brethren: BBC Omnibus, 'Doctrine that Divides', presented by Peter France and directed by Jim Murray, made in 1975 and broadcast in September 1976, six years after the Aberdeen Incident and two years after the Roger Panes murders. It features an interview with Roger Stott subject of the Costa-Award-winning 'In the Days of Rain' (2017) written by his daughter Rebecca Stott.
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Thank you Rebecca for uploading this documentary. My late husband was a former member of the Exclusive Brethren and at the time of this documentary was trying to "get his life right" to go back into fellowship with his children following his separation from his wife. Very fortunately for him, the "priests" never did come to see him, he got back with wife and the family moved.
Many years later, following his divorce and our marriage, Dave and I had the pleasure of meeting your father, along with other former brethren, and I feel that this helped Dave so much. We were also amongst the congregation at your father's funeral.
The documentary has helped me to put some things that I have heard, into perspective. Before I met my late husband, I lived near the Brethren in Rawdon, Leeds. I was unaware of them at the time but I remember the controversy when Garth Christy's son lost his leg in an accident when they were "not" building a meeting house on the edge of Yeadon/Rawdon.
Certainly the Exclusive Brethren or Plymouth Brethren Christian Church as they are now styled, do not deserve charitable status as even after all these years, outsiders are not welcome at their meeting houses despite numerous investigations by the Charities Commission.
Watching this in 2021. Where are they now?
This breaks my heart, so many memories, Love you Glynis , this is the year I left too xx
As a child of four I was forced to go to brethern church in Glengormley N.Ireland twice a week until I was 17. I was beaten on the front of my legs and back with a walking stick, I was punched, kicked, (stabbed in the thigh by my mother when I was seven ) and abused like this by both my parents. Everyone knew even the school and did nothing. Finally I escaped one night when I was 16 with a broken nose, covered in blood and stopped a car on the main road asked the lady to take me to Whiteabbey police station. When I went in at they didn't believe me. They rang my parents to come to the station. After speaking to them my mother admitted what had happened that night.
They were told not to do it again and I was made to go home with them as no further action was deemed necessary.
The beatings continued until I escaped to England. Since then I have been shunned for 40 years by "my family "and the plymouth breathern . ( Thankfully )
I have my own faith in a God of love and kindness and I let my children decide whatever they choose to believe. They have helped me feed the homeless and people who need help for years now and I couldn't be more proud of them.
Children should be brought up with love, kindness and patience. Not taught to hate, judge and shun.
So sorry for you from one who left too
Thanks God that you were/are able to return to the true love of Christ.
What a terrible story. I hope the rest of your life is happy.
this is not Christ's message, it is satanic child abuse, survivor here, I left & never looked back, every cult is religious narcissists
They moved to Glengormly NI from Donaghadee Co Down,I knew the families,one girl was in my class in school…
As long as the Exclusive Brethren are perceived as wicked, they will continue to attract followers.
I really liked the MP lady, James’ cousin. I could have listened to her for longer.
Thank-you for publishing this.
Glad you found your way to it.
just things i take for granted
Thank you for uploading this documentary. Just to clarify a few points which I am not sure the video-maker's covered sufficiently; not all "Brethren" are "Exclusive Brethren". Having previously been involved in various forms of "Brethrenism", including a brief time of fellowship with the Exclusive's (in which they indeed confirmed to me that to attend any of their meetings I would have to break off all fellowship with my family), I can say that it is the minority of "Brethren" which are exclusive; for there are many forms of brethrenism today, varying in doctrinal position, though not usually regarding the fundamental aspects of the Faith. Groups have splintered off since the early to mid 1800's, with big splits occurring even then. A typical "Brethren" today would not hold the extreme views on separation and fellowship that the exclusive's would - though they would still be strict in this regard, and be selective, rightly so, with which churches and persons they would fellowship with and allow to preach in their places of worship. You would see the typical Brethren in a standard place of work now, out in the world, but not of it. Still regarded as strict by evangelical standards, they are not to be confused with the extreme end of the scale which we see in this documentary. As someone once said, it is not wise to judge something by its abused representation. One might call most Brethren today "Open" Brethren, as they have a more realistic, Biblical approach to the genuine issue of Separation. Some Brethren "assemblies" have become too loose in fact, and almost unrecognizable to the typical evangelical church one might find in the high street. In short, Brethrenism is a tree of many branches, each with their favoured teachers, history and principles; but each also, I would say, bearing distinctive marks which distinguish themselves as "Brethren"; and all still tighter than the evangelical norm regarding separation from evil and from the world. You would never find the systematic excesses found in this documentary among them.
I love you optimise, but I was withdrawn from by so called open brethren, in the same way, as My grandfather was at this time, from the exclusives. He ate alone in the laundry for two years like a dog, his children, grandchildren over the next few years causing so much pain, we still have family in the brethren we have not seen since. What happen during these time, still happens in the so called typical "Brethren" today, I myself was withdrawn from from an "open" brethren church in 1999. and no one was allowed to eat or drink with me either. I didnt suffer nearly as much as the generation before, and the rules not nearly so harsh, I broke "the rule" of going into a nightclub on a weekend to dance with friends, I was excommunicated by Wed that week, told I could not see my friends or family, or go to church, I was a wolf in sheep's clothing and everyone told they couldn't have any contact with we, as my soul had been handed over to satan for its distraction. etc etc However being a solo mother at 16, I was always looked at with disdain by most brethren anyhow, I was most certainly NOT the girl that any of them wanted their sons to marry. The church was simply told when I was disciplined that I had chosen to rebel against god and was in sin, and chosen to turn my back on the Lord. Perhaps you just have not heard their stories, the ones who have left the so called typical "Brethren". None of which is really important anyhow, What is, is simply have we personally accepted Christ. I'm certainly a sinner, but God himself has forgiven me and I love him for that. The Lord is always with us if we believe in him and He see us. th-cam.com/video/sz81dIfwf4Y/w-d-xo.html
Oh sod off with your "in the world but not of it" crap. Just another way of saying you all think you're better than everyone else. Believe me, your shit stinks too.
The term "exclusive" is the issue of confusion. Today, you have "exclusive" brethren and "open" brethren and they are all divided but remain Evangelical Christians. The BBC Australian program only speaks of one very specific entity called "Exclusive Brethren Church Ltd". Those and only those are the focus of this program. They are the result of a past division of brethren known as the "Raven - Taylor" division. This group became the horrid sect that is now "The Exclusive Brethren Church Ltd" and there is no resemblance with today's Exclusive brethren or Open brethren. Sadly, the broadcast fails in making this important distinction. Bad journalism.
Yep, my Mum's family were open Brethren (Chandler was their name) and they seemed like nice folks. But they were quite scathing about the Exclusives.
just thing everyone take for granted
Roger Panes was a cattle dealer in Andover, Hampshire. In November 1973 he was "shut up," or shunned, by the other members of his church, for wrongfully shunning another member. This is a form of 'discipline' promulgated by James Taylor Jnr. and James Symington, leaders of the sect. His family were required to shun him and he was not allowed to sleep with his wife or eat with the family.
In February 1974, Panes was taken to hospital having taken an overdose of tablets, due to the stress of his situation. He recovered, but, on 4 March 1974, he killed his wife Pamela, 39, his two sons Graham, 7, and Adrian, 4, and his daughter Angela, 6, as they slept in their beds. An axe was found covered in blood. He then hanged himself from the stair bannisters with an electrical cable.
A note was also found in the house:
"There's never been such a wicked man. This house will have to be left empty or bulldozed. You go to the Brethren. I trust they will take you in. Cry to God for mercy for you all and the dear children. The Lord is coming very soon.”
An inquest was held and a jury decided that Panes had killed his family while the "balance of his mind was disturbed."
Geez its worse than the Amityville, least they weren't religious hypocrites
Lance this is SO brilliant which are your parents? x
I left in 1990 and never looked backed. The stories I could tell (if I could be bothered) that would land them in hot water. They have no control over what their members are doing.
Perhaps a well organised documentary by yourself would be an idea? Could help a lot of people if you made one; an insiders view.
Hello Darren do you still believe you are a sinner in need of salvation and that Jesus Christ was God and died and was resurrected again for the forgiveness of your sins?
@@lina-zz9kk - really?
@@CJCappella Why what do you believe?
@@lina-zz9kk - that question of yours has come out of left field...
So glad I left The brethren in 2000.
These wrong-uns are hiding in plain sight - that level of wickedness demands it.
... WEIRDER & WEIRDERERER But Jolly Whimsical ✌️🏴🥃 2:37
2018....I wonder how all these people are fairing? Some may be passed on but I hope some have found peace.
I have found peace and joy in my life. My friends are my family my children are my loves
Me too
Reading "In the Days of Rain" a second time now.
I have just read "in the days of Rain" very interesting.
thats why they do it
So interesting to see this and even the music of this series took me back in a way only music can to my teenage years. We have the same issues today in 2021 about groups who do not break the law but bind people's minds. If they do no good, not benefit then we can deny them charitable status (like we deny Scientology in the UK although not in the USA). If they break the law in whatever ways you can prosecute a cult or sect. However if they do none of those things then there is not a lot that can be done other than enforce child contact rights in the courts - even that is hard eg in UK Jewish ultra orthodox religious families when someone leaves - a child can be torn mentally in two by two worlds.
This 1976 BBC documentary called “Doctrine That Divides” requires CLARIFICATION to ensure precise information and objective truth.
This video does not speak of the Historical “Exclusive Brethren” (EB), but a subset (separate division) of the EB movement called “The Raven-Taylor Exclusive Brethren” division - considered a cult by the EB. Consequently, associating John Nelson Darby with James Taylor (Sr. or Jr.) is an injustice. Btw, James Taylor Jr was a flagrant adulterer. The current Head of this Cult is an Australian called Bruce Hales.
This Raven-Taylor (RT) cult had nothing to do with the EB. In 2012, the cult was incorporated under the name “Plymouth Brethren (Exclusive Brethren) Christian Church Limited” (commonly known as "The Exclusive or Plymouth Brethren Christian Church" and is entirely separate from the Historical Exclusive Brethren still in existence today. In fact, EB does not use the name “Church.” The EB and Open Brethren (OB) (another subset from EB) use the names "Gospel Chapel" "Gospel Hall" "Bible Chapel" and "Christian Assembly" but never “Church.” So today, to be clear, this documentary talks about the sect called “Plymouth Brethren Christian Church” (50,000 members) AND NOT the EB and OB. The first is a cult that divides families; the latter are evangelical conservative Christians (EB and OB) and are considered true Christians that do not divide families.
For more info, please see this video: th-cam.com/video/DTn8-nsYrMI/w-d-xo.html,
Also, for updated information on the cult (The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church), you may want to view this video: th-cam.com/video/10eNfQJvsrg/w-d-xo.html
These programmes were made so well in those days. I remember that BBC series actually and had not seen those opening images and logos and music since the 1970s. Interesting but pretty typical that once a religion/ cult moves to son inheriting from father you often get dirty old man leader wanting to have a lot of women - look at Warren Jeffs of the FLDS whose father was the leader who moved them to "one man rule" in the USA - much easier to abuse when one man rather than a group are in charge and then son was even worse.
I find it very interesting that some very well known and very large Christian charities are not very charitable to their own people.
The practice of making their own people dependant on a stipend income, providing accommodation, schooling, work etc and then controlling them with the threat of shame and demotion or expulsion where they and their family lose everything for an infringement is very much in practice. Often with no available recourse through normal channels like workers compensation etc. Perhaps not as in your face as the brethren but it happens more than you think.
i cant even cope been in lockdown
Are you in Tier 4?
@@scythian3 ?
@@danniellemason8388 what part of that puzzled you? He was asking if youre in a tier 4 lockdown.
It's a dangerous cult.
Sadly another brethern group who split from these folks in 1970 now seems to be rushing headlong backwards to this terrible darkness.
John H - probably best not shared in public in the interests of harmony........
John H The Group yes - the issue is just one of a number of bizarre happenings........
From the words of Jesus himself: Mark 7 v8 'You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” 9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions!
Which one are you referring to?
Surely if children are under 18 you have the law on your side in taking them with you re that Christie chap. His son runs a massive packing business now so has done ok with the Brethren though I guess.
1 Corinthians 5
[9] I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people
[10] not at all meaning the people of this world, who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
[11] But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother, but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
2 Corinthians 6 verse 14 : Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers.For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness ? And what communion has light with darkness ?
2 Corinthians 6 verses 17 to 18: Come out from among them And be separate, says the lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty.
2 Corinthians 5 verse 17 : Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
2 Corinthians 5 verse 7 : For we walk by faith, not by sight.
Is an act referring to someone as "a son of a bitch" . Of the light or darkness ? . Of clean or unclean ?
Your scripture quotations could be perceived as ambiguous in view of the context story. Could you give further comment?
Completely taken out of context…
they say one thing to u then something to the parents
The Bible says "Do not be misled, bad associations spoil useful habits". I find it decidedly odd that such a scripture could be interpreted so rigidly that it would be considered a sin to have one's neighbour in the house briefly to have a look at one's nephew.
They certainly are twisting the bible's words which also include loving your neighbour as yourself. In fact they made things just as Jesus sought to remove - all the complex pointless laws of the old testament and they have rejected in a sense the one main rule - to love including to love your enemies and certainly your next door neighbour.
If there were a God she is presumably crying at the mess man (usually men not women) has made of things.
Earths flat first error
As an ex Jehovah Witness, I know exactly how it feels to be in a highly controlled environment
The Brethren are the same as Orthodox Jews, Muslims and Mormons.
I had a mate at school called Himzo who was a Lebanese Muslim. Never once was invited despite him being in my home many times.
Same at college, a Jewish friend who I knocked about with, often at my mother's place, often with my friends; but never once was invited to anything to do with his family. They kept to themselves and employed their own kind. He was going out with a friend of mine for a few years, she was totally in love with him. She enquired about marriage and he laughed in her face; I can only marriage a Jew!
th-cam.com/video/lbb4xwYj19g/w-d-xo.html
Jesus fulfilled the law, Jews messiah already has come
You can't say anything about Jews unless it's grovelling admiration
Why do the men and boys look so smug?
We are all fools?
As it says in the real Bible - ‘Vote CONSERVATIVE’
Muss3:16
Has BBC produced a documentary on Islam in Australia?
Of course not Islam Judaism is beyond critisism
Why does Glynis look 45? The fake eyelashes don't help.